Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
EarthCheck sustainability certification
309 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to episode 071 the Green Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality.
Today I’m in Australia talking to Stewart Moore, Founder and CEO of EarthCheck, the world’s leading scientific benchmarking certification and advisory group for sustainable travel and tourism.
EarthCheck helps tourism businesses and destinations become more sustainable through certification, consulting, training and software solutions. Their mission is to provide the tools needed to measure environmental impact, and ultimately to make business decisions that save money, resources and the planet.
Their clients range from leading destinations and multi-nationals to local governments and small business owners. A few of the more recognizable brand names to give you an idea, would include Melia, Banyan Tree, Kerzner International the owners of One & Only, amongst many others.
Stewart has over 30 years of experience in a wide range of disciplines from policy development, tourism destination management and marketing, sustainability, risk management and corporate and social responsibility.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to episode 71 of the Green Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality.
Interview with Stuart Moore: Sustainable Travel Innovations
00:00:19
Speaker
Today, I'm in Australia talking to Stuart Moore, founder and CEO of EarthCheck, the world's leading scientific benchmarking certification and advisory group for sustainable travel and tourism.
00:00:31
Speaker
EarthCheck helps tourism businesses and destinations become more sustainable through certification, consulting, training and software solutions. Their mission is to provide the tools needed to measure environmental impact and ultimately to make business decisions that save money, resources and the planet.
00:00:48
Speaker
Their clients range from leading destinations and multinationals to local governments and small business owners. Few of the more recognisable brand names to give you an idea would include Melilla, Banyan Tree, Kursner International, the owners of One and Only, and many others.
Stuart Moore's Experience and Insights on Sustainability
00:01:03
Speaker
Stewart himself has over 30 years of experience in a wide range of disciplines from policy development, tourism, destination management and marketing,
00:01:10
Speaker
Sustainability, risk management, and corporate and social responsibility. Stuart, it's a real honor. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Thanks, Matt. Absolute pleasure to be with you. Perhaps we could start with this one. Obviously, the sustainable certifications, green hotels, resorts, tourism operators, destinations, events, and real estate developers all under your
00:01:36
Speaker
your bracket, but there are a number of options out there nowadays and possibly even a confusing number. So for people who are not quite sure where to start, what would you describe as the main drivers behind the particular system that you've set up and your certification? Is it more about the knowledge and insight?
00:01:55
Speaker
required and getting to the is it more about the journey or do you think is it ultimately it's the formal recognition and the destination of the certification?
Understanding EarthCheck's Certification System
00:02:02
Speaker
How do you see your stance on that compared to this plethora of options out there in the market today? Yeah so I think I agree firstly there's a sea of labels and they're all well intentioned but at one end of the spectrum you've got tick box labels there with that software and the average
00:02:19
Speaker
We've got programs like EarthJig, which I guess we see ourselves as leading edge science. We have dedicated software platforms developed for our clients. And probably most importantly, we've got real people, relationship managers who are there, dedicated there to supporting our clients on their journeys. Look, I think all the above are really important. People, post COVID, we've become connected as a world and we are much more aware now of the need to address climate change
00:02:47
Speaker
and environmental management, and also to reconnect with our local surroundings. So you have an expectation from market. They're looking for more. They have an expectation that operators have good systems. And the whole reason they work with EarthCheck is it's not just the robustness of the system, but they've got transparency in what they're doing. And they've got someone they can trust in helping them on that journey. So it should be a little bit about celebration, too. So it's about what the market expects.
00:03:15
Speaker
The market also is expecting more in terms of compliance and reporting. This was particularly picked up post-COVID. And if we're really being honest about it, it should really be that celebration. We don't want to demonize operators or tourism. It's about seeing to be doing good for the planet and good for the business. Because of course, a hotel brand, for example, starting out on that journey, they're looking at a number of different schemes.
00:03:45
Speaker
earth check itself then how would you define it as being there anything in particular that distinguishes it from others or all these certifications more or less doing the same thing because it can be quite a minefield trying to figure out well you know is it geographically specific for example if it's a project in Asia Pacific you're obviously very strong there and you might have others that are perhaps stronger in the US for example so how do you how do you advise businesses to try and
00:04:13
Speaker
get to the right partner because it can be difficult.
EarthCheck's Comprehensive Platform Features
00:04:18
Speaker
A little bit can be and I guess that the whole way the EarthCheck platform was built was built as an international standard so and if you look at you know traditionally agenda 21 and the key sustainability issues facing the planet they're the same doesn't matter where you are in the world but certainly our platform has been designed to take into consideration geography and employment
00:04:39
Speaker
Across 32 sectors, we're a holistic standard, which makes it quite different to anyone else in the market. So we have a design, we look at design and construction, we look at operational performance, and we're also looking at refurbishment and also training capacity building. So we can meet all elements of what our company or a hotel chain needs. And I guess the science is important. So we're underpinned by very deep science. We've got one of the deepest data sets for operational performance in the world.
00:05:09
Speaker
That's been developed over a 25-year period. And the software program developed means that we can service our clients. And software is so important, making things easier to collect, to collate, and report on your data. So for us, the whole development of the platform is to meet. The requirements doesn't mean we're here in Mumbai or Zurich. We're able to meet the requirements in market. And of course, we also do that in language. So we provide the
00:05:36
Speaker
platform and other seven languages online 24-7. For me, one of the most interesting things about discovering what you're up to is how you've managed to bridge
00:05:50
Speaker
different let's say sub-sectors within the tourism industry so there might be those players out there who really just focus on certifying hotels but you've branched out and I think there is this universality to the concepts but for the to the key values and concepts behind a sustainability plan that can be applied to a range of different sectors and you've done that you've rolled it out effectively you haven't limited yourself to hotels and resorts you've really taken a broader approach how much
00:06:19
Speaker
How many differences are there between whether you're looking at a small business owner, a restaurant, a hospitality operation, or a larger chain? How do those different schemes adapt to the size and particularities of each business? And how much is it really a universal standard so that those same principles just applied with slight adaptations?
Implementing Sustainability Across Business Sizes
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess the fundamental things actually remind the side.
00:06:47
Speaker
So it doesn't mean if you're a little operator or a big operator, we're looking at making sure you've got the right policies and plans and train. It is true. It doesn't matter whether you're a train or a convention center, it comes back to you can't manage what you don't measure. So the whole program comes back to the basics on the operational footprint of the business that we're working with. And that will differ because obviously trains have a different energy set and a way set than a hotel.
00:07:14
Speaker
But we have key reporting indicators that will differ for each of those products. But the fundamentals don't change in terms of the steps. It still comes back to working with you and understanding your footprint, providing the ability to understand what that looks like in terms of your operational performance, and then moving through that so that you can develop a plan that meets your outcomes, whether it's as a small operator. So it doesn't have to be an over complex environmental management system,
00:07:43
Speaker
Or if you're a very big convention center, then the expectations are that you've actually got a very comprehensive management plan to support you. But the fundamentals, the steps tend to be the same. I think it's such an important point.
00:08:00
Speaker
often people ask you know how do we start or does this apply to us or what should we be doing on sustainability and sometimes I feel so that look we should all be doing everything at once and we can't obviously do it all at once but you have to start you have to try and it's not about just being a hotel business as you say it really is anyone out there at the moment who's
00:08:21
Speaker
who's contributing to the tourism industry in some
Building Standards and Professional Accreditation Discussion
00:08:24
Speaker
way. It's just starting that process, isn't it? And it's getting on the track. And I think you guys provide that, you provide the guidance and a sense of process and a plan that can really be extremely
00:08:39
Speaker
comforting and remove a lot of that anxiety around, well, are we doing the right thing that we're doing? Are we prioritizing the right points early on in the phase and what have you? So within that, obviously, the design of structures, buildings is a particular interest from my world in real estate. I've been studying for your earth track design accredited professional recently. I've still got to do the actual exam, but I have done the work.
00:09:03
Speaker
That's one of my summer lists of to-do's, but perhaps you could give us the description in terms of that. So the BDS, the building planning and design standard that you've created, and then also this interesting adjunct around the accredited professionals, which I think is a really worthy scheme as well. So perhaps you could tell us a bit about that. OK, so we've got a number of standards, one of which is our building planning and design standard, and the standard was put together. First of all, the best practice to have a look at
00:09:32
Speaker
how we measure the sustainability in the design structure, in fact, the operation of a building. And most importantly, a part of that is actually having our design accredited professionals. So we recognize right from day one, we need some partners and technical experts who can work with our clients to actually assist them to move the projects along to meet the design standard. And one of the fundamentals of that is that
00:10:00
Speaker
It's a simple thing that often on a site, often you don't have technical or your professionals aren't all working together to one plan. And so the whole process is bringing it back to one common denominator in reporting to each other and in terms of a set of clear criteria. That design standard is actually now globally presented. So I just mentioned before, the standard is consistent across the world, but obviously the criteria of global death are depending upon climate zone
00:10:30
Speaker
and also the ecosystem and the biodiversity which we're building that site.
Data Management and Sustainability Metrics
00:10:36
Speaker
And so the role of the accredited professional, as I see it, is a facilitator between, they're almost like the bridge, right, between the project themselves and the project team. So it's a sort of mutually positioned consultant who is facilitating that process. I think that's key because again, it's understanding both what the project
00:10:59
Speaker
team requirements are, where their skill sets are, and often there isn't that character, there isn't that sustainability player in the mix, although often the architecture companies that end up collaborating with, they have an increasing awareness of sustainability. I think increasingly it's becoming part of their day-to-day work, but if you're going for a specific certification, you need an expert in that.
00:11:22
Speaker
And that's a bridge, right? That's the role of the of the AP to help the architect and design team and the project team understand the process they're required to go through to achieve the accreditation, right? Exactly. And I guess the key thing is it's a partnership because we learn just as much as in fact the design teams often do by having by working with technical experts in different disciplines.
00:11:47
Speaker
There's also then the flip side to that, which is around the custom software that you mentioned. And that's often the reality of running these projects once they're built and operational. It's then so much down to creating good data and knowing what to do with that data so that you're able to see what's happening in real time. So you've gone down that path. Again, you've really got this sort of 360 approach.
00:12:15
Speaker
For anyone who's not sure about the role of such software in managing a sustainability plan in the operational phase of a business, perhaps you could explain how your software facilitates that and makes it an easier process. Yeah, I mean, so I guess the software platform has been built over a 10 year period. So anyone who does work in software will tell you that it's an ongoing process of updating your code and also making it more functional to meet market needs.
00:12:45
Speaker
Ultimately, the whole software program allows us to service clients. So the client has 24-7 access, particularly really important in helping them to understand how they collect their data, how that's collated, and how that data can be reported back to them. So the software itself has a number of templates. For each of the issues we're asking, there's also a template to provide guidance in terms of where to look for that data.
00:13:12
Speaker
and how actually to understand what that information is providing back to you. So it actually can map against your targets. It gives you an understanding then of how to map your performance against your peers and market, the competitive set, and the wider market. So what we're trying to say to people is, where are your current position? Where are the options for room for improvement? And I think that's a core part of the program. That software package also allows us to actually include
00:13:41
Speaker
reporting mechanisms right throughout the project. Because for each stage, there's a reporting part right from new policies and plans that need to be reviewed right down to the benchmarking
Support and Resources for Sustainability Efforts
00:13:53
Speaker
data. And then it is a core part of the project that we want people to communicate both internally and externally about what they've achieved. And that's the part of the program where there's an audit and certification component. So the software covers every element of the design and certification process.
00:14:11
Speaker
There's often a worry that one can feel almost drowned in the weight and the responsibility of taking on this sustainability task and it can seem like a mountain. How do we gather all this data and then what do we do with all the data? I think the point here is that
00:14:27
Speaker
It is, in fact, a well-trodden path. We know what we need to go and track down. We know how to get hold of it. And it can be tricky at the beginning. But once you start putting that data in and feeding quality data into a software like yours, then effectively, the software does a lot of that extra work in terms of extrapolating the reports, in terms of giving you an understanding of how you're comparing against others in your market. And so much of it comes down to that data. Perhaps we could just talk a little bit about what
00:14:56
Speaker
typically that's requiring what the big sort of energy waste water management systems are and how one goes about beginning that process for someone who's not already up to it. Yeah look it's a good question and what the software does is we've got a range of booklets and resource materials so the key part of the program is at no stage should you be wondering I don't know what to do next because there's a guide there and also the templates to say look if you're just starting
00:15:24
Speaker
This is where you need to go to look for the data, and this is where that data needs to be collected. And not surprisingly, there are 10 core performance areas. We're trying to get an understanding of the greenhouse gas emissions. And to do that, we really go for some deep dives. And it doesn't matter if you're an Airbnb, or a restaurant, or a hotel. We're looking at particularly your energy across the business. And that's going to differ depending on how complex your business is.
00:15:53
Speaker
whether you've got pools and whether you've got activity sets that sit outside the building. So energy is mission critical. And not surprisingly, one thing we do in tourism, we create a lot of waste. So waste is really important in terms of what part of the business is creating the waste, often natural kitchens, but it could well be what's going to land for. And we want all of that measured. Being honest about it,
00:16:19
Speaker
You never get to a point where you've got all the data that you need. So we've got to start out with where the data is currently available, and then to build that over time. So often, first year is just getting your basics down, your water, your waste, and your energy, and also starting to map out the sorts of things that we'd normally ask in terms of social and cultural criteria. So it really is triple bottom line reporting. And if we don't have those things, and the idea is that as we move forward in our benchmarking, we're creating a database that you can build over time.
00:16:50
Speaker
So the 10 criteria, other than looking at your water waste energy and your greenhouse gases, it's also critically looking at things that's how we use our pesticides, the control of weight on site, and particularly bonding where you've got swimming pools and the use of chemicals. Quite comprehensive, and all of it gives you the criteria and support in terms of, as I said before, where you find the data and how that needs to be put into the system.
00:17:20
Speaker
Again, I think a really worthwhile point reiterating that it doesn't have to be perfect from day one, but just please start and begin that journey, begin the process, because it does get easier as you get into it, because you start to refine it, you start to figure things out, and it can feel like such a huge task at the beginning, but if you can just begin
00:17:41
Speaker
Slowly slowly it starts to fall into place and over time I think that's, that's where it starts to get really interesting around really refining the data further. And where would you typically see
00:17:53
Speaker
Earthcheck getting involved in that process then for a client that's aware that they haven't really begun the sustainability journey in earnest would you see Earthcheck getting involved early on and being a partner from the beginning or do typically businesses do some of the work up front for themselves and then they get to a point where that okay we need a bit more structure in place here it's time to look at bringing in a certification scheme and having a bit more of a rigid format or
00:18:21
Speaker
At what point in that journey do you typically see Earthtec being called upon to help out? Look, I think right from the beginning. So what we try to do is just sit down on clients and get a feeling for where they're currently positioned, what they're trying to achieve, what resources they've got. And even with the certification product, we've got very simple stepping stones you can start with. Our evaluated product is really about the basics. So let's just look at the basics first, and you'll know
00:18:51
Speaker
design standard, we also have an ability just simply to put out some questions at the beginning in terms of what processes and procedures you currently have in place. Once people do that, it's much easier then to understand where they are in the journey. And sometimes people are much more advanced than in fact they thought they were. And in other cases, they just need a little bit of time. And I think part of our role is to support them with resources and toolkits.
Growth in Sustainability Post-COVID and Future Opportunities
00:19:17
Speaker
perhaps in training, or at least to provide examples of how others operate. It's the same size as them go about the planning and design process or the collection of data. So I think our role really is to make sure that all of them, it doesn't matter what stage you're in, we're there to support you. And in time, we'd love you to be a member, but that doesn't always happen like that from day one.
00:19:43
Speaker
Where are you seeing the most growth in the market at the moment around these clients signing up?
00:19:52
Speaker
A sustainability pathway is there for that particular trending sectors within the industry that are emerging and perhaps the flip side to that is where are you seeing perhaps the greatest opportunities or the untapped markets, there must be with your sort of your overview i'm sure you can see wait a minute that that area is just ripe for. For you know a bit of a push in terms of sustainability and I guess there must be some that are really flourishing and already growing right.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, so there's always been market leaders. But you know, it is true. In our field, there's the old bell-shaped curve. So there were always market leaders. And to be honest about it, traditionally, they're the people that we've always worked with because they had a really clear vision for what they were trying to achieve. And they've got a really big hump in the middle, which is classically tourism, where you have the majority of operators, unless there's a requirement to take action, we're comfortable just to go along the small pace.
00:20:46
Speaker
What we're finding, post-COVID, as I mentioned before, we now have very clear compliance standards starting to happen, particularly from a banks and a reporting perspective and all economies, particularly in Europe with the EU. So that big hump in the middle is now moving quite considerably forward in terms of understanding they now need to actually have collected that data, be reporting in a transparent fashion and being able to understand what their footprint is because wherever they like it or not,
00:21:16
Speaker
in their supply chain, and that's for their clients. And the foot soldiers, the sustainability were often your business clients are now asking, I need to report back to work if we're going to stay with you, or I've got procurement and RFPs that now require me to do things. So we've got all that big hump in the middle is now moving forward. So there are a lot of operators now who have a heightened interest. Part of that's compliance, part of that is
00:21:44
Speaker
a market expectation, whether on leisure or business. And part of it also is that there's some incentives in market to help people move along. It's a pretty exciting time. I've been in sustainability a long time, over 30 years, and for the first time ever, I've seen a heightened interest across market of the need to do something. Yeah, I think it is a very positive message that you're communicating, and it is an exciting time.
00:22:13
Speaker
a change taking place whereby just becoming more mainstream conversations going around this, whereas I think even five or six years ago, perhaps less so, even I'm able to see that. But I was also interested in the Research Institute, which in a sense for me, am I right in thinking, is almost sort of
00:22:33
Speaker
you know clearing down the looking glass in terms of really what's coming in a decade down the line right it's having that kind of resource within your your stable just looks like wow what a privilege to be able to have people who are really just sort of yeah exactly digging into the market and trying to understand the dynamics out there so perhaps you could tell us what some of its current focused areas are and and how they relate back to the the core products and services of EarthCheck itself.
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess, you know, Earthcheck actually is a child of a cooperative research center. So it's come from a research center, which was traditionally managed by the Australian government. So when Earthcheck became a profit for purpose type company, we retained and established a not-for-profit research center to support us. And we maintain the same professors. We've added professors to it. The current share of that is Professor David Simmons
00:23:30
Speaker
Zealand. And the role of the Urgic Research Centre is to two things. One, give us leading research because the market's moving so fast. You can never ever feel comfortable that you're covering all aspects of either technology or consumer trends. We talk about the ERI as being solving tomorrow's problems today. So it won't surprise you that we still have very active
00:23:55
Speaker
projects looking at water and water still the potable water still the biggest issue facing the planet simple things like how we manage water and how that reticulation is managed in an operation a lot of work has been done on just discussing the whole issue of that regenerative tourism we've just developed a paper on regenerative tourism but more particularly what would be the performance measures that you would put that scientific performance measures to demonstrate that
00:24:23
Speaker
you've, whether it's a destination or a development, it actually has regenerative outcomes. And so the first of those papers has just been prepared. It's pretty exciting because regenerative tourism is really the next stepping stone for where sustainability is giving back and being taken forward. And look, the team is also doing quite a lot of work and more particularly on climate change. This is going to relate back to the design standard
00:24:49
Speaker
Because we know, particularly in tropical countries, extreme weather events are going to continue. So we're looking at a lot of the design, fabrication of buildings and materials that are being used, and particularly where that sits into the circular economy on how we make buildings that have less waste, but also are more effective and efficient in terms of the climate. So that's been, they're the current projects. Risk and resilience is a key one, helping people understand how they not just understand
00:25:20
Speaker
the challenges but how that is back into your operational and design principles. I think it's a fundamental part of how you've set up your little empire there around having really this sort of
00:25:33
Speaker
a brain of researchers out there feeding in that then informs the work that you're doing around the certifications. You're not operating in a bubble, you're operating in a manner that is informed by your own in-house research.
Global Support and Conclusion
00:25:49
Speaker
I think it's a really interesting setup that you created there. It just gives such a
00:25:55
Speaker
extra layer of substance then to the work that happens at the certification level or the building design level because you really get a sense of what this is all being informed by work done by leading academics in the field and I think it's something that I don't see with a lot of other with most other businesses out there and that's a key point that I found
00:26:16
Speaker
when doing the research into what you're up to, it just seems like a really viable and admirable model that you've created. And I also saw that you've also got various representatives around the world. So if people are interested in connecting with EarthTech or want to begin that conversation, does it all go through Australia or do you then end up with, I saw there was a representative in Spain, for example, where I live. So how does the network of ambassadors, how do they play into things? OK, so basically,
00:26:45
Speaker
They are in market to speak in language and service our clients. So I'd love to think we could do that from where I'm located in Brisbane, but you really do need people in market that you can refer back to. So they all are there to support, they're our relationship managers. So as you mentioned Barcelona, we're now in Northern Italy, we've been in Mexico for some 20 years, Toronto in Canada,
00:27:14
Speaker
So the whole idea is that it's partly about servicing our clients in market and also about making sure that we've got ears in market to understand because the EU particularly is dramatically moving forward fast, particularly at the EU policy environment on ESG reporting. So the only way you can keep up to speed with that is having people in market and they're the best people to go to because they provide me advice on what's happening every day across the world.
00:27:45
Speaker
It's a really great setup you've created there. A lot of work, 30 years of dedication, so much respect for everything you've done. Thank you so much for your time. I'm going to be respectful of your calendar, but it's been a really insightful conversation. We'll include links to your various websites and social media channels in the show notes. Stuart, thank you once again. Oh, Matt, lovely to speak with you, and a bit of luck. I look forward to catching up with you soon. Thank you.