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GHP 072: Recovery, biohacking & longevity studios - trend report with Matt Morley
166 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to episode 072 of the Green Healthy Places podcast in which we discuss the themes of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality.
I’m your host, Matt Morley and I recently put out a trend report on the new breed of recovery, biohacking and longevity clinics.
It’s completely free, 40-odd pages and packed with inspirational reference images. The link is the episode notes for you along with links to all the studios and clinics I mention.
So in this episode of the podcast, I’m going to take you through the key concepts within the trend report.
We will cover the definition of ‘recovery’, as well as ‘biohacking’ and ‘longevity’, then look at some of the specific activities and treatments that fall within this new corner of the health and wellness industry, such as infrared saunas, ice baths, cryotherapy and so on.
We will then look at my selection of the top studios and clinics to know, unsurprisingly all located in LA, New York and London.
From there we examine a further sub-segment of this trend, the designer bath house, pinning down its core components and exploring three of the most inspiring examples of this concept right now from Australia, Canada and the US.
Finally, I cover the F&B aspect of these facilities with a notional Performance Health Bar, a concept I expect to see come to market within the next 2-3 years as a natural extension of performance drinks and these futuristic wellness clinics.
Their F&B offering has remained comparatively sleepy but the seeds are already germinating of a completely new genus of health bar.
- https://www.greenhealthyplaces.com/recovery-biohacking-longevity-studios-spas
- https://bellecellclinic.com
- GaiaNoMaya.com
- https://www.intomesea.com/
- https://pausestudio.com
- https://remedyplace.com/
- https://s10training.com/
- https://upgradelabs.com/
- https://www.othership.us/
- https://sos-senseofself.com/
- https://www.abathhouse.com/
- https://biofilico.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 27
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to episode 27 of the Green Healthy Places Podcast, in which we discuss the themes of well-being and sustainability in real estate and hospitality.
Trend Report Overview: Recovery and Longevity Clinics
00:00:14
Speaker
I'm your host, Matt Morley, and I recently put out a trend report on the new breed of recovery, biohacking, and longevity clinics. It's completely free, 40 odd pages, and packed with lots of inspirational reference images. The link to that, to the full document, is in the episode notes.
00:00:32
Speaker
along with links to all the studios and clinics I mention in this conversation.
Exploration of Biohacking and Longevity Treatments
00:00:38
Speaker
So in this episode, as you may have gathered, I'm going to talk you through the key concepts within the trend report. We will cover the definition of recovery in this context, as well as biohacking and longevity. We'll then look at some of the specific activities and treatments that fall within this new corner of the health and wellness sector,
00:00:59
Speaker
such as infrared saunas, ice baths, cryotherapy, mobility training, and much, much more. We'll look at my own purely subjective selection of the top studios in clinics you need to know about. Unsurprisingly, perhaps they all seem to be in LA, New York, and London for now, but expect that to change over the next couple of years.
Designer Bathhouse Trends
00:01:21
Speaker
From there, we examine a further sub segment of this trend, the designer bathhouse, putting down its core components and exploring three of the most inspiring examples of that particular concept right now. They're plucked from Australia, Canada and the US.
00:01:39
Speaker
Finally, I cover the one missing aspect of all these facilities as I see it, and that's the F&B. I propose a Notional Performance Health Bar, a concept I expect to see come to market within the next couple of years as a natural extension of the functional and performance drink space combined with these futuristic
00:02:00
Speaker
wellness clinics. Their F&B offering is comparatively sleepy, but the seeds have been sown for something completely new by way of a health bar. So, let's do this.
Balancing Exercise with Recovery
00:02:14
Speaker
What do we mean by recovery?
00:02:17
Speaker
Well, whether you're starting a new training regime or simply training with progressive overload in the gym, the way it should be done, some degree of muscle soreness is a fairly normal part of the body's process of repairing muscle fibers. We all experience it. It's this type of recovery that these recovery studios and clinics are concerned with here, primarily.
00:02:38
Speaker
rather than recovery from, say, an injury that would require a very different type of treatment, namely rehabilitation, physiotherapy, and or surgery. Arguably, in my view, the time dedicated to bouncing back from a training session or workout is just as important as the time spent exercising, and this view is becoming increasingly common and more widely accepted nowadays.
00:03:06
Speaker
So it's that balance between physical stress and recovery from that exertion that is the magic source behind any long-term fitness regime. It is, in other words, a constant push and pull between under training, making no progress or little progress, and over training that leaves a body heavily fatigued, likely in a negative mood state, and at risk of picking up no injuries.
00:03:34
Speaker
Prehab or prehabilitation is about prevention of injury rather than cure, so taking action early on to avoid injuries later in life. For anyone over 35 or 40, the signs of physical wear and tear will likely be all too familiar.
Active Rest and Mobility Training
00:03:51
Speaker
Eventually, we will have to face our demons, especially if we didn't do that much recovery and prehabilitation training earlier on in our lives.
00:04:00
Speaker
By caring for the body though, through what is now seen as a holistic 360-degree mind-body approach, we can reduce the risk of injury and extend our health span as in the number of years later in life when we are completely healthy and able to do the things we want to do in a physical and mental way.
00:04:22
Speaker
Now, that is going to require a combination of sleep, diet, cardio, strength, mindfulness, and then a range of possible recovery activities that we're going to now, such as active rest, for example. Active rest would be very low intensity activity on a rest day.
00:04:41
Speaker
which can be oddly more effective than complete rest. So that could be a hike, a very easy bike ride, some light yin yoga. That would all be suitable, but really maximum zone two just to get the blood flowing a little and no more. We then have mobility training.
00:05:01
Speaker
That's targeting extended range of motion through mobilization of the joints, ankles, hips, spine, shoulders, neck and wrists combined with some active stretching. So that's things like high repetition pulses in amount of your maximum range of motion rather than say static holds and static stretches as used to be so common.
00:05:23
Speaker
Percussion therapy and vibration, that's things like massage balls, massage pistols, vibration plates, they all apply rapid high frequency pressure to the muscles. That technique helps to increase blood flow and reduce muscle tension.
Hot and Cold Immersion Benefits
00:05:39
Speaker
You need 10 to 15 minutes of that really for a full body routine. But we see entire studios or spaces within a workplace dedicated to that type of thing, just as we're seeing mobility and stretching clinics or stretching studios coming onto the market now.
00:05:56
Speaker
Contrast bathing is alternating between hot and cold water immersion for two to five minutes in each for say three to five rounds. Again, to improve blood circulation and reduce muscle inflammation. It invigorates the mind and body and gives you a great endorphin here. Contrast bathing studios are now a thing.
00:06:18
Speaker
Phone rolling and massage balls are perhaps complementary to all of the above, something you're more likely to find, say, in a health club or a gym. It's a low-cost addition to both the warm-up and the cool-down. It's a supplemental tool, but you can use them little and often. There's no charging of batteries required, perhaps a little bit of knowledge to know how to do it well. But that is, say, a minor player, whereas some of those other ones really are starting to
00:06:42
Speaker
take on entire concepts in terms of businesses, so becoming individual clinics dedicated to stretching and mobility, or clinics dedicated to contrast bathing.
Anti-aging Lifestyle Practices
00:06:55
Speaker
Longevity.
00:06:57
Speaker
longevity medicine is an emerging field of medical practice that focuses on promoting your health span. So I use that term once already to define it. Again, it's about staying disease free and avoiding debilitating injuries while remaining active for as long as possible in life. So the primary examples of anti-aging medicine would be
00:07:21
Speaker
or rather of anti-aging lifestyle modifications of which some are medicinal, would be things like a low calorie diet, certain types of exercise, hormone replacement therapy, HRT, in the US particularly stem cell treatments now, gene therapy, and something known as telomere based therapies. These new concepts are designed to reduce the risk of age related diseases and generally improve your quality of life
00:07:48
Speaker
or in a way to slow down the aging process. Sounds wacky, but it is happening and the science is slowly coming around to this idea.
Biohacking for Performance Optimization
00:08:00
Speaker
Biohacking is a hotly trending concept. And here we have a range of mind and body interventions, lifestyle modifications, and indeed plenty of tech that's all designed to optimize your physical and mental performance.
00:08:17
Speaker
More specifically, we're looking at improved mental clarity, increased energy levels, enhanced physical performance, promises of better sleep quality, improved immunity, and reduced stress. I know that's a lot, but there is quite a lot to the biohacking concept and it really bleeds into recovery and it bleeds into longevity too.
00:08:39
Speaker
Some examples would include new tropics, so your smart drugs, they can be natural, not necessarily drugs over the counter in any way, they're all widely available. Cryotherapy we'll touch on, cold immersion therapy, infrared light treatments, mindfulness, calorie restriction, we mentioned that in longevity, IV drips, as well as some cutting-edge drugs that are
00:09:02
Speaker
on the outer edges of the scientific canon of approved approaches, but seem to be a few years away from being widely accepted as genuinely, yeah, if not magic potions, something most of us should be on if we're interested in this. And so that would include, say, Rapamycin, Metformin, Resveratrol, NAD, NAD, and NAC.
Infrared Saunas and Health Benefits
00:09:33
Speaker
Let's take a little deep dive then into the infrared sauna concepts. So we'll come to ice baths next, but saunas have been used for centuries as a means of relaxation, recovery, and a therapeutic practice. But what exactly are we aiming to get from these new saunas? Well, the temperature therapy method as a whole is said to help with detox, detoxification. Obviously sweating in a sauna can help eliminate toxins from the body through the skin.
00:10:00
Speaker
However, I'm inclined not to oversell that particular benefit. I'm more interested in boosting immunity through sauna use. They can support immune health by increasing the production of white blood cells and antibodies, thereby protecting against infection, much like cold bathing.
00:10:18
Speaker
Improve cardiovascular health as well, that's from the heat of the saunas that dilates the blood vessels, improving circulation, and potentially reducing the risk of cardiovascular diseases. That's very interesting. And then of course, on a very basic level, stress relief and relaxation. Saunas provide a tranquil environment that promotes relaxation and can help alleviate stress. Quite simply, by providing a restorative space to be rather than to do, or perhaps to be and think rather than to do anything practical.
Ice Baths for Recovery
00:10:50
Speaker
On the flip side, ice baths at the other end of the temperature spectrum, these cold plunges are about immersing the body in ice cold water, preferably up to the neck, at least to the chest. Time spent in the water is typically one to five minutes per round, you're aiming for multiple rounds per session, although there do exist some 30 minute protocols with slightly warmer temperatures for those who aren't quite ready for the full monty.
00:11:16
Speaker
Here we're looking at reduced inflammation and swelling in the muscles and joints. That's very interesting. We have the cold temperature restricting blood vessels that then reduces blood flow. When the body warms up again, fresh blood rushes into the muscles promoting tissue repair and recovery. We've also got some evidence of temporary pain relief, effectively by numbing nerve endings and reducing sensations of pain and soreness.
00:11:40
Speaker
I think anyone who's done that on a recovery day after a big strength workout or a long cardio or endurance session the day before would know what that feels like. And then simply enhance mental well-being. So exposure to the cold releases endorphins. That promotes a sort of feel-good sensation and improved mood.
00:12:00
Speaker
In a similar way than cryotherapy, although that is mercifully brief, typically sort of three minutes, it's an anti-inflammatory session spent standing in a tube-like cabin that works best when repeated
Advanced Self-care Facilities
00:12:13
Speaker
regularly. Going once isn't going to do much. Go three times a week for a month and you'll start to see the results. That stimulates collagen production and cell rejuvenation.
00:12:22
Speaker
Basically liquid nitrogen is blasted over the body, so while the temperatures are in fact much colder, an ice bath is actually perceived as being a colder experience. You also have flotation chambers. That is a deep relaxation technique and a digital detox offering dedicated time for meditation, distraction-free thinking or simply chilling out while bobbing around in a well-lit
00:12:49
Speaker
bubble of water, essentially. You also have IV vitamin drips. This is becoming more mainstream now. It's a way to deliver high doses of electrolytes, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals into the body. You've got different blends, but they can target energy, cell rejuvenation, anti-aging and more. In fact, there seems to be almost no limit to the potential range of IV vitamin benefits.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, that one perhaps take with a slight pinch of salt. A hyperbaric oxygen chamber is about then intaking pure oxygen while inside the chamber with increased atmospheric pressure. That's said to aid in cell rejuvenation, fatigue reduction, stimulate immunity, and again, aid in recovery.
00:13:35
Speaker
Finally, we have red light therapy. This is a big one. The benefits here include increased blood flow, which in turn can reduce inflammation and promote healing. I would recommend looking at panels of red light therapy, so large format, reclined beds rather than handheld devices or individual masks. I think you're looking for maximum bang for your buck when it comes to that.
00:14:02
Speaker
How does all of this then play into the physical manifestations of a new business concept, that is recovery studios and its near-cousin longevity studios? Well, from short-term workout recovery to daily biohacking rituals or detox sessions, future-proofing bodywork and clinical treatments for longevity,
00:14:26
Speaker
This new breed of facility are really redefining the advanced self-care sector in my view, and the revolution is already underway.
Science and Spiritual Healing Centers
00:14:36
Speaker
Take a look at Bellcell in London, for example. It dubs itself as a molecular wellness center. It takes a very science-based and personalized approach, delivering bespoke wellness clinic programs for, frankly, high-end clients.
00:14:52
Speaker
You've got facial treatments, cryo lifts, LED light therapy, biohacking options such as the aforementioned hyperbaric oxygen chamber. You've also got lots of IV drips and a range of other.
00:15:06
Speaker
products and services. That's a London example. Over in the NYC, just to contrast that, you've got a space called Gaia Normaia. That represents what's effectively a spiritual healing and recovery studio. So it's all about restoring your inner energy, connecting you with Mother Earth and collective ancestral healing traditions. So they define themselves as a social wellness
00:15:29
Speaker
music and arts community. Big emphasis on the social wellness there. So this is clearly more of an Eastern mystical influence here than the Western science-based approach of a longevity clinic. But we don't wish to be biased in favor of one or the other.
00:15:44
Speaker
That will be limiting. I'm trying to adopt a beginner's mind when I'm looking at this sector, so I consider this outfit to be a worthy addition to our list. You'll find a Himalayan salt cave accompanied by sound wellness therapies. You've got an outpost of an organic Colombian restaurant, Palenque, and you have a desert wellness lounge art gallery with spatial audio sound system. Something a little bit different, but
00:16:09
Speaker
Particularly, I would say for Gen Z and the upcoming Gen Alpha, that type of space that combines concepts around recovery as well as spirituality has real potential.
Sustainability and Community in Wellness
00:16:22
Speaker
Intimacy in Santa Monica is the only studio, the only recovery studio that I found with a truly sustainable ethical supply chain as well as community support and charity donations. In other words, they have a sustainability strategy.
00:16:37
Speaker
It's a lot more than just cream washing. This is a purpose-driven business with an engaged environmental architect named David Hertz on the green interiors of the space. They operate using renewable solar energy. They have an ethical supply chain. They support charities.
00:16:54
Speaker
But the big hero image in terms of communication around Into Me Sea is the white quartz crystal soaking tub that they dub as being for energetic healing, but they also have various other biohacking experiences, infrared saunas, light sessions, salt therapy, and a little bit of that ancient wisdom mixed in as well here, interestingly. Sticking with the California theme, you have Pause Wellness Studios,
00:17:22
Speaker
We've currently got three locations in Cali offering modern holistic solutions aimed at boosting immunity, recovery, physical and mental health. Services, you've got things like cold plunge pools, flotation therapy tubs, infrared saunas, LED light therapy, cryotherapy and IV drip. So again, you're seeing these big ticket items being repeated in the leading case studies I'm giving you here.
00:17:49
Speaker
It's a wellness interior design aesthetic that is contemporary, clean and nature inspired with some lovely touches of biophilic design that got me quite interested in it. And they're really trying to bring the outside world in to balance the prominent tech component within the customer journey. I think Pause is a very interesting brand to watch for the future.
Luxury Health Experiences
00:18:13
Speaker
Another US brand that is really delivering is Remedy Place. These guys target the health-conscious luxury lifestyle segment currently in LA and New York. They've got two sites and they're taking things I'd say to the next level when it comes to a wellness studio interior design that's incidentally done by a company called Bells and Whistles.
00:18:34
Speaker
So they've got a dark, almost brutalist-inspired interior. Think exposed concrete slabs, a sophisticated color palette of dark woods and grays combined with lots of indoor plants and low-level lighting to create a specific mood. Again, we see a combination of ancient practices with modern technology. The USP though is a very design-conscious space. So you'll find hyperbaric oxygen chambers,
00:19:01
Speaker
lymphatic compression to flush out toxic buildup, lots of IV drips, the saunas, the ice baths, cryotherapy, LED light therapy, and you've also got these cool private contrast bathing suites so you can do your thing between hot and cold in privacy.
00:19:16
Speaker
They also add in some physical treatments, such as chiropractic movement, acupuncture, cupping therapy, and group meditation, as well as Holy of Holies functional mobility classes to actually get people stretching and mobilizing their joints. remedyplace.com for that one.
00:19:35
Speaker
S10 training and recovery in New York really stands out for me from the biohacking studio and longevity clinic crowd because it combines training and recovery.
Holistic Training and Recovery
00:19:48
Speaker
So the yin and the yang in one designer space.
00:19:53
Speaker
You've got spa suites there that have a changing room, a steam shower, a sauna, ice bath, and a magnesium bath, meaning you can rotate as many times as you want during your own private session. They also do movement assessments, something that looks similar to what happens at another place called Myo Detox Studios. And that's a combination of soft tissue work, active release techniques, cupping, functional range conditioning, or FRC, and individualized stretching and mobility.
00:20:21
Speaker
Coming around the corner, they also have what they call a lab work offer and that's doing blood tests, assessing a client's skin prior to treatment and a recovery bar that they claim will have protein shakes and shots as well as specialty coffee. So I think there's quite a bit in there in terms of how the fitness studio concept and high-end boutique gyms can incorporate the recovery piece into their products and services.
Tech-Driven Performance Labs
00:20:49
Speaker
And then upgrade labs, which are really out there on the far end, the most extreme corner of what's happening here. This is the now legendary Silicon Valley entrepreneur, Dave Asprey of Bulletproof Coffee Fame and a myriad of other biohacking consumer products nowadays. His labs zero in on performance and recovery. That's physical and mental performance and recovery, and they have a really tech-heavy approach.
00:21:16
Speaker
So you've got a full body red light bed that's said to increase decrease inflammation and increase collagen production. You've got the big squeeze that's a full body 360 degree lymphatic detox massage suit that's designed to remove excess water from the body and expel toxins while boosting the immune system. Cryotherapy sessions are said to increase deep and REM sleep while boosting metabolism.
00:21:41
Speaker
Where things maybe get really truly wacky is in the performance training division where equipment that they have there includes an AI enhanced indoor cycle that promises the benefits of a 40 minute jog in 40 seconds of effort. They also have a cheat machine that is a motorized resistance strength machine driven by a software that aims to cut workout times the minutes per week rather than hours. This guy is all about
00:22:07
Speaker
hacking the system, getting as much benefit as possible from the minimum amount of time. Again, as I say, very experimental, but he's out there on the front line doing it. And some of this stuff will stick and slowly trickle down to gyms, health centers, spas around the world over the next five years. That's my bet.
Modern Bathhouse Innovations
00:22:29
Speaker
Then, changing tack a little bit, if we look at the designer bathhouse trend,
00:22:36
Speaker
This is really interesting, modern bath houses or bathing houses. I see these as an extension of the whole wellness studio trend into the world of recovery, cold therapy and cold immersion, as well as combining that with restorative warm waters. So it's kind of taking a slice of what we've just been talking about.
00:22:55
Speaker
and putting two or three of those elements together. They often pitch themselves as combining modern technologies with traditional spa practices for a contemporary audience. What's interesting, particularly here for me, is how such bathhouses really over-deliver on the interior design concept. There's a strong focus on the interior fit-out.
00:23:17
Speaker
right down to the materials that they're using and the lighting. So we're trying to create a soothing nature-inspired space that is at once minimal and organic. In other words, I think it's about a safe space, creating somewhere where you feel comfortable as you're moving around semi-naked with a bunch of other people. Beyond the core product, they also have
00:23:39
Speaker
In some cases, additional services, you might expect say massage therapy, body wraps, some yoga, pilates, even meditation, and guided relaxation sessions. Many of these establishments too have communal areas where people can mingle and share stories. That's key. That kind of social contact and interaction can in itself be beneficial for both mental and physical health.
00:24:07
Speaker
So you've got other ship, Bathing House, in Toronto, for example.
Luxurious Bathhouse Experiences
00:24:12
Speaker
The concept there is to create an immersive environment where people can connect to nature and each other. I love that. The layout of the space is designed to encourage conversation between guests, even if they don't know each other, with seating areas for groups and plenty of cozy nooks for private conversations. I can imagine that working in somewhere like Toronto. I think everyone might struggle in London or perhaps Paris.
00:24:35
Speaker
A variety of activities are available, including, say, yoga classes, meditation, even pool parties, as they describe them. Again, all designed to combine mental and physical well-being. That's in Toronto, Canada. It was designed by the local design firm Studio AC. I particularly love the ceramic tile wall finishes and the flattering lighting they have there, all with this sort of warm, natural color panic. Othership.us, for that one.
00:25:02
Speaker
Then over in Australia, you have the sense of self bathhouse. That's a really luxurious, well-being sanctuary, as they call themselves. It's a place to relax and unwind in style, as they say. So there, again, natural materials, lots of wood, lots of stone, lots of earthy tones and textures. That's creating a soothing environment for guests.
00:25:21
Speaker
They have aromatherapy, massage therapy, saunas, whirlpools, steam rooms and plunge pools. So it's very much about recovery services. And again, social connections are fostered. They have to create the events in order to foster those connections, but that could be a yoga class or a meditation session or various mind-body holistic workshops. So that's sos-senseofself.com for that one.
Wellness and Community Connections
00:25:46
Speaker
And then Bathhouse, New York, that's in Brooklyn, a wellness-focused bathing house that provides a real variety of recovery and mind-body services. They have access to multiple saunas, steam rooms and hot tubs, as well as massage therapy. There's a wellness studio for yoga and workshops and a healthy cafe on site.
00:26:07
Speaker
They can also use that space interestingly for lectures, meditation sessions and art shows. So again, that combination of social and in this case with bathhouse, just nudging into the cultural space as well. Looking for connection, looking for shared experiences.
00:26:28
Speaker
One final point then, having created this trend report, I really felt that the missing piece that hadn't received as much attention as perhaps it could do is around the health bar, also the F&B component of these various clinics and studios.
Future of Health Bars
00:26:46
Speaker
In my view, as more people become conscious of their wellbeing, both inside and out, mental and physical, so mind, body and spirit,
00:26:54
Speaker
The demand for F&B concepts tailored to this type of results-oriented biohacking approach is ever clearer, at least from my perspective. So what do I mean by a performance health bar? Well, it's got to do four things.
00:27:09
Speaker
It's got to help clients prepare themselves mentally and physically for performance, say prior to training, or for a relaxation experience. So that might be less about performance, more about getting them in the right mood and mindset for what is to come. In many cases, it might be just recovery.
00:27:27
Speaker
Secondly, it can assist in maintaining that state, whether it's about high performance during a training session or a state of relaxation during a recovery section. It can also in itself promote recovery after the activity, say after a workout, helping, I guess, to get back out there ready to go one more time by giving them the nutrients and supplements that they need to do that.
00:27:51
Speaker
And it can provide sort of wrapped up, all of that wrapped up in a healthy indoor environment using biophilic design, non-toxic materials, circadian lighting and indoor air that's been really purified to make sure that the space itself is as health-promoting as possible.
00:28:09
Speaker
So the future of health bars, in my opinion, lies in incorporating cutting edge ingredients and technologies combined with biophilic design to bring the outside world in and create a holistic wellness experience maximized for positive impact on overall health.
Holistic Wellness Design
00:28:25
Speaker
On that basis, the bar menu, as I see it, should include things like functional mushrooms, that's chaga, lion's mane, cordyceps, all carefully considered, carefully mixed, nootropics and adaptogens, nutritional supplements such as creatine, perhaps a plant-based protein, hydrolyzed collagen, magnesium, MCT oil, an extract from coconut oil, for example.
00:28:51
Speaker
as well as adaptogenic herbs and spices. That would be things like ginseng, ashwagandha, rolliola, rhodiola, holy basil, green tea, and ginkgo biloba. And finally, specific new tropics, so smart drugs that focus on cognitive health, mood, and mental performance, so things like on a basic level caffeine, but also L-theanine, choline, tryptophan, and 5-HTP.
00:29:16
Speaker
So some of that may seem a little bit wacky or out there or complex, but I really recommend clicking on the link to have a look at the PDF online. There's lots of really impressive images there to give you a sense of what these spaces look
Contact Matt for More Information
00:29:28
Speaker
like. If you're interested in discussing more or want to hear more about it, reach out to me at matt at greenhealthyplaces.com. Hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.