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00:00:01
Design Well Studios
81 Plays4 years ago
Michelle and I dig into a term that is more common in the US than in Europe, namely ‘building biology’, which is a combination of healthy building strategies and Biophilia or nature-connectedness.
Her in-person and virtual assessments of residential environments address issues affecting the health of occupiers, the risks of off-gassing from flooring and wall paint, how to mitigate the risk of Electro-Magnetic Fields (EMFs) in homes and how to safely manage your smart home technology.
Michelle has a lot of strings to her bow, having co-developed a lab test for indoor air quality, launched her own collection of biophilic nature-inspired artworks and delivering landscape design services for clients as well to bring the outside world indoors.
She’s devoted to all things natural and healthy in the home environment, so we had lots to talk about.
If you enjoy this episode please hit subscribe, my social media handles are in the show notes if you want to reach out directly, nada was, let’s get into it.
GUEST / MICHELLE IFVERSEN / DESIGN WELL STUDIOS
HOST / MATT MORLEY
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Overview
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to episode 26 of the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we take a deep dive into the world of sustainability and wellbeing in real estate and hospitality. I'm your host, Matt Morley, founder of Biofilico Wellbeing Interiors and Biofit Gym Design.
00:00:29
Speaker
In this episode we're in Portland, Oregon in the US with Michelle Ifferson of DesignWell Studios.
Healthy Building Strategies & Assessments
00:00:36
Speaker
We discuss a term that is more common perhaps in the US than Europe, namely building biology, what that's all about, essentially a combination of healthy building strategies and biophilia or nature connectedness.
00:00:48
Speaker
Her in-person and virtual assessments of residential environments address issues affecting the health of occupiers. She looks at the risks of off-gassing from flooring and wall paints for example. We talk about how to mitigate the risk of electromagnetic fields or EMS in your home and generally how to safely manage smart home technology.
00:01:11
Speaker
She has a lot of strings in her boat. She's co-developed a lab test for indoor air quality. She's launched her own collection of biophilic nature inspired artworks and also delivers landscape design services for clients too as a way to bring the outside world in.
00:01:27
Speaker
Michelle is devoted to all things natural and healthy in the home environment. So we had plenty to talk about. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit subscribe. My social media handles are in the show notes below. If you want to reach out, nada mas. Let's get into it. Here's Michelle Ifferson from DesignWell Studios.
00:01:46
Speaker
Rock and roll, Michelle. Thanks for joining us. Really nice to have you on board all the way from Portland, Oregon. I wanted to kick things off just
Professional Journey & Design Focus
00:01:54
Speaker
with a sort of an overview from your side then in what you do with Design Rail Studios and how you got to where you are today. Thanks for having me, Matt. I'm really happy to connect with you and I definitely want to speak more about the connection and how I found you and what I'm doing with that. But yeah, I've been inspired by
00:02:17
Speaker
biophilic design and healthy living spaces for quite some time now. I grew up in Santa Barbara, California, beautiful place, but everything grew there. And then we lived in an area where it was a little bit more damp. And so I developed a lot of allergies and just kind of suffered with that for a while. And everybody's like, Oh, you're allergic to mold. Well, mold is, it is an allergy, but it's not supposed to be inside of you.
00:02:44
Speaker
And so I love science. I grew up watching surgeries, believe it or not. But I also come from a home that is, my mother is a renowned landscape architect and my father was a builder. My birth father was a sculptor. So I love art and design as well. So the science part and the design part really, you know, I love, I've always loved that. I wanted to become a doctor.
00:03:12
Speaker
And I was taking my anatomy classes and long story short, I walked in to do my cadaver labs and the formaldehyde was so overwhelming that I couldn't complete it. So I went to art school in Europe.
00:03:32
Speaker
And yeah. By that stage, you had established, I think, if it sounds like this, just an interesting combination between art and science and an element of medicine and perhaps some influences from landscaping. Sure. And at some point, that lazy tour was sort of by Felix Zine and the idea of wellness design. Exactly. It was sort of infused in me, in my environment, in my life. And whether I liked it or not, it was happening.
00:04:02
Speaker
I then, I got into information architecture and customer experience design in San Francisco for years and was designing online experiences and taking brick and mortar stores to like Sephora and Wells Fargo to an online experience. And so I've got that techy thing going on too.
00:04:26
Speaker
I've got a very interesting background, but don't we all?
Challenges in Sourcing Materials
00:04:30
Speaker
At this point, it's interesting to be able to kind of merge those things. And then when I was designing my son's room 20 years ago, it was very difficult to find healthy furnishings. And so I sourced heavily
00:04:53
Speaker
and took a while to find one place in Oregon, actually, Pacific Rim furniture with no toxins, no adhesives that were, you know, bad for you. And so I started that path while I was being a designer and doing architecture, information architecture for high tech companies.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so I moved back to Santa Barbara after living in a couple of different places on the West Coast and met a naturopathic doctor. And so we got to chatting and she did a house call and noticed how gnarly their environment was, how it was damp, it was off gassing. And we got together and we created a company that
00:05:48
Speaker
did these house calls, these environmental assessments. And then later on I got into building biology and studied all about building science, healthy building and remodeling, electromagnetic field testing, EMFs, and really dove deeper into VOCs and indoor air quality.
00:06:10
Speaker
Okay, so there's lots in that. So let's loop back around into the building biology piece, because I think that's it's really valuable information. But you mentioned the scene in Portland Oregon 20 years ago. And if you like struggling to find anywhere that was delivering on this concept of sort of healthy materials and healthy furniture, how are things today? And how does it compare, for example, with what you see, for example, down in California, in terms of the rest of the US?
00:06:41
Speaker
There are certain parts of the world that seem to be really pushing ahead and with availability now for these things or leading from the path or leading the market.
Building Biology & Environmental Assessments
00:06:49
Speaker
How is your local scene? Local scene is, well, I'm not shopping for cribs anymore, but for furnishings, you know, I, it's not fabulous. I mean, you definitely still have to source and a lot of this stuff comes from Europe and it comes from California.
00:07:08
Speaker
So we do have a mattress manufacturer here that gets natural latex material and he makes beds. And so I source a lot of those for my clients. You know, I do a lot of used furniture, have you? And repolster it. There's a repolster company here that does all sustainable upholstery and natural latex and wool and things like that too. It's, there are,
00:07:38
Speaker
some places, but especially furnishings, really, really tough, really tough. There is some places that do, I work with a lot of artists that will create furniture for me, right? So we'll design furniture together for jobs. And so we'll source, you know, really nice sustainable wood. And I coach them on healthy,
00:08:05
Speaker
finishings and adhesives and things like that too to make that. So it's still in that creative stage, but it's not readily available where you just go walk down the street and here's an eco store like in London, you know, they have
00:08:21
Speaker
lot more to offer. I think probably the reality is that in most even major cities still there's a sense that it's a niche market but it's then about availability and you're right that the European market is now pretty strong on that but it doesn't necessarily mean we have direct access at retail but we can get to things pretty quickly within the European market and
00:08:45
Speaker
There's someone out there doing everything that we need, and I think that's a real sign of the times, and I think it'll just carry on. We don't know how far it'll go in terms of becoming mainstream, but I think it'll become increasingly accepted. So let's loop back around then, because you mentioned building biology, and I think those are perhaps two words that don't necessarily go together all that often in people's minds. I know, it's kind of, yeah, for sure. Give us the 30-second intro into building biology from your perspective.
00:09:13
Speaker
Well, it's really about building science and creating built environments as they simulate nature. So breathable walls, you know, healthy indoor air quality, you know, great flooring without adhesives and really trying to mimic outdoors to indoors. And, you know, I love technology.
00:09:43
Speaker
but at a limit, like there's a way to use it safely, right? And we can talk more about EMFs later, but building biology is just that. It's breathable, livable spaces that support humans. So I call it human code rather than building code. Yeah, it's an interesting take on things. And then, so when you do your environmental wellness assessments then,
00:10:12
Speaker
I'm guessing 99% of the times you're going into spaces that are not built along those principles. So they are not buildings that have a build-a-biology concept behind them. So in fact, it's probably the opposite, right? You're going in, there's some kind of a problem that's been identified, whether it's visually something that's appearing on the walls, or there's a health issue for residents
Remote Assessments & EMF Approach
00:10:34
Speaker
of the home. Would that be correct?
00:10:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Most people get to me from their wellness providers that they recommend having them check out their home or they, or they're like, I've gone down all this health east of this, this road to, you know, having their health being compromised. And they think that there's something it's cut stemming from their environment, right? So they're, it's kind of a detective work. They want to figure out where the source is coming from. And
00:11:04
Speaker
That's a lot of our business. It's not as sexy as biophilic design, but it is supportive work and I really enjoy it. And I've helped a lot of people over the years determine what's going on in their environment because they're so used to their environment. They're so used to their home and they're not objective, right? They're like, they think that's normal. Things are normal. That off gassing of the paint, of the flooring is normal. I've got so many cases where people
00:11:34
Speaker
will build brand new homes or their remodel, and they'll put luxury vinyl tile. I don't know if you have that in Europe, but it's... Yeah, LVT. Yep, LVT. And it looks great. It's beautiful, easy to clean, whatnot, but a lot of them have adhesives in it that have formaldehyde in it, and it'll off-gas up to 15 years, especially if they don't have a system, an air system that will purify it and filter that out.
00:12:03
Speaker
I do onsite assessments here locally in Portland. And then now since the pandemic, I've had to do more virtual assessments. So I've been doing virtual assessments for people all over the country. And I worked together, I shouldn't say worked together, but I've connected with a toxicologist and immunologist that works with people all over the world on their
00:12:32
Speaker
There are situations where they test their blood for mycotoxins mold and they want to know what to do about their environment. And so I come in and consult with them and do a virtual assessment through, um, you know, a laptop or FaceTime and take a look at their environment. And we have a really lengthy questionnaire to determine, and I've been able to help a lot of people that way. This feels really good.
00:12:57
Speaker
And so if you were to do an in-person assessment,
Indoor Air Quality Improvement
00:13:00
Speaker
which presumably in a local context post COVID will become the norm again for you or the preference, what are you measuring? Not necessarily, not necessarily. No, you know why? Because I found myself getting exposed to mold and
00:13:19
Speaker
two chemicals. And so I know what supplements to take. I know I sauna and I know how to do that and wear the gear, but it's not something that I want to do so much anymore. And so the health risk? Right. Right. And you mentioned DMFs then. So for those that perhaps aren't aware of
00:13:44
Speaker
what it involves, why you would need to test for it, and how you identify it. What's your process there? So a lot of people come to me when they are looking to purchase a property, right? Like yesterday, I just did a property that was right next to a corridor where people run up and down it. And above it, there's transmission power lines.
00:14:11
Speaker
So they wanted to know, this person's very active, they're very healthy, they want to know what's going on. And so they think that, hey, there might be a connection, I want to check it out. So I go and I do an assessment where I check for electric and magnetic fields. And we adhere to the precautionary principle for building biology standards between what's low to high.
00:14:39
Speaker
and the health risks that could be coming from that. Now, there are a lot of studies. Studies are still happening, but like with 5G, that's so very new. So there's not a lot of studies out there. There are studies with 2G and 3G, but 5G is completely a different animal, a different beast. It's small cell microwave radiation.
00:15:05
Speaker
And it has to be close, not for the way. But when you're close to it, it's definitely more harmful, I should say. I don't want to go down that road too much. But when it comes to EMFs, I have a cell phone. But I use a case that shields it. I'm hardwired with ethernet and my computer. We don't have Wi-Fi here.
00:15:35
Speaker
We have our Roku, which is a television, it's kind of like an Apple TV, and it's hardwired. So we still have the benefit. We have an outdoor speaker, outdoor stereo. We plug our stereo into it so it's all connected and it still sounds fabulous. So there's ways to do it. You know, I've been doing a lot of these smart homes
00:16:01
Speaker
And they're very savvy. They're very cool. I mean, you can talk to your, your, uh, or not talk to you, but find out how many eggs are in your refrigerator. Um, I love the site. I love technology. I love it, but is it necessary and how much do we need? Right. And some people are, yeah, it's just this interesting moment where, yeah, there's, there's two things going on, which is a sort of a return to,
00:16:27
Speaker
to desiring or looking for a connection to nature and at the same time just a massive technological explosion and it's not going backwards entirely but nor do we want to leave where we came from behind and so you end up with this sort of slightly, it's like a dichotomy between the two and it's quite hard sometimes to sort of bridge and we'll find that point of
00:16:48
Speaker
of comfort where it's maybe the health benefits are maximized and we're actually going any further is just becoming detrimental to your health. For sure. Just around air quality then, because I'm conscious that that's going to be one of these, I think, hot topics for a few years to come for obvious reasons. So how do you work with indoor air quality and what sort of techniques do you
00:17:15
Speaker
thinking about in terms of measuring and also improving indoor air quality.
Non-toxic Materials & Holistic Design
00:17:19
Speaker
Sure. Now I was just thinking of what you were saying about technology. They have the
00:17:23
Speaker
the apps on your phone that can check your air and things like that. So that's that dichotomy you were talking about. Like, yes, that's great that you're checking your VOCs and your air and whatnot and your health of your home, but then you're using Wi-Fi, right, all over to use that purpose. So we don't do that. We have developed a kit with
00:17:47
Speaker
with the lab here in the US that tests for over 500 different VOCs, volatile organic compounds or chemicals. And it's a tube that you put on the test, the pump, and it's about an hour and a half test. And it just takes in the data, holds it in the tube, and then we send it off to the lab. And then we get a very professional lab report back
00:18:13
Speaker
that I go over with my clients and it goes to the source, where it's coming from. And so it's very, it's a great tool to analyze your error, what's going on if you just did a remodel. If there's something going on in your environment, you think you don't know what that odor is or what's happening, we were able to determine what, you know, where the source is coming from and then to help to consult with them to remediate it.
00:18:41
Speaker
So it's like a deep dive analysis of the indoor air quality at a specific point in time. Right, it's like a blood test. It's like a blood test for your body, right? And so it's a great way to know what's going on there. And it tests for mold, VOCs as well. So if there's something going on that way, and then we have an isolated formaldehyde test, which is fantastic because you don't have to strip away the other chemicals to get to that particular chemical.
00:19:11
Speaker
It just is a pure test. So we can ship these and people can buy these pumps and they have them for a tool in their home and they can use them in their office or car, their van build, their kids dorm or their parents assisted living place. And they can use it or they can use it again after they remediate to have that. It's a great tool.
00:19:41
Speaker
I think the underlying concept there is that there are now just a plethora of low-grade and not that effective air quality monitors out there. There's this Dyson fan in the corner of my home office here. Would it be included in that? It just can't work it out.
00:20:02
Speaker
It's not of the standard that we need in order to get a really decent look and most of what's happening sort of desktop monitors are not going to get there. So I think the idea of having what you're describing as a like a blood test for your area and then perhaps slightly more, not medical grade but an upgraded
00:20:23
Speaker
air quality monitor doing a sort of continuous analysis such as the ones that Aware and companies like that are doing. That to me starts to feel pretty comprehensive. Exactly. You got reliable data. Right. Just the easily available stuff that doesn't really necessarily do that much for us. No, it's good to have the constant monitoring. It's great to do that. But it's also important to note that
00:20:49
Speaker
We don't want people living in fear, right? We want them to be able to come home to their space, to go to their workspace, to feel inspired and not worried that there's something in their environment that's gonna harm them. So it's really good. I feel like I give people a lot of peace of mind, especially with EMF testing. Like for instance, some people's dishwashers are very hot, right? And so a lot of people prep around their dishwasher. And if you're trying to conceive a baby,
00:21:19
Speaker
that's probably not a good thing, right? So it's just good to know what's the pulse of your home and how to operate and function. And then when you move to a new place, figure that out again. And then you're like, you know how to navigate and shield or just know to not hang out in that particular area. Like a lot of people put their electrical panels or their smart meters in your bedrooms.
00:21:47
Speaker
or spaces where you spend a lot of time. So that's a constant radio frequency coming at you all the time, preventing a lot of dirty electricity. I'm helping a woman on the coast who has a two-acre property and she's building a home. She's got a two-year-old and I'm consulting with her on placement of where the smart meter should be.
00:22:15
Speaker
and not near his bedroom, not near areas over there. You can opt out and not have the radio frequency on there. She doesn't have any health issues, but it's just a preventative. It's a good way to know about that. I do a lot of places that you'd be shocked where there's no regulation here in the US.
00:22:39
Speaker
that I just found now that the newer homes are going to be more regulated where they put the gas meters. They have radio frequency as well. But what about all the existing homes? There's nothing about that. There's no education. There's no shielding. They don't try and opt out. So it's a hard fight sometimes to be able to reach a lot of people with this. But I prevail. I keep trying.
00:23:08
Speaker
Well, that
Biophilic Design & Family Projects
00:23:09
Speaker
you get into the slightly more strategic piece around healthy interior design as a concept and almost sort of healthy buildings and healthy real estate development or refurbishment projects, right? Now, it's a term that I think we're seeing more and more of. Everybody has, I think, their own interpretation of. But when you talk about healthy interiors and healthy interior design, what do you interpret that to mean?
00:23:36
Speaker
sourcing materials and furnishings and finishes that are non-toxic, that are not going to off-gas, that are not going to give them trouble. I've had clients who just purchased a regular mattress and that's given them sort of that body burden, toxic overload that's created them to be multiple chemical sensitive from one mattress. So it's just, it's really good to, and who knows their story before. Do you know what I mean? They could have had other past exposures,
00:24:06
Speaker
Um, just a healthy interior, um, really is about quality air. That's, that's more than the most important healthy building materials. Insulation is a huge one. Um, and making sure that your, your crawl space, your attic is, is clean and not, not too, um, not too damp, not too humid. Um, and, uh,
00:24:33
Speaker
just really shoring it up in, you know, the healthy design too. It's not just about the building materials, furnishings and things like that. It's space planning, right? It's bringing in greenery. It's views. It's where you function and operate in your home. Like for instance, I'm in my office, which was a spare bedroom that we created. And there was no window towards the backyard. I have a lovely backyard with a garden and,
00:25:02
Speaker
beautiful vegetation that I had no access to in here when I moved in here. And so my husband built or made a window so I could see it. And so it makes me want to come in here. And since I'm not in the field so much, I'm more inspired to be on the computer and have these podcasts and these meetings and work with my clients there. So having a view of nature is the landscape design.
00:25:32
Speaker
outside in, inside out. So that's a really big piece of the way I design and I work with people on their landscape and their yards too and their gardens so they can be where they're sitting have a beautiful view or there's a fountain there or a special plant that they like or a tree or something
Post-pandemic Interest in Healthy Living
00:25:56
Speaker
like that. So it's not, it's sort of
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's a nice way to design and people seem to really appreciate that. And that then you get into the concepts of biophilic design, biophilia, and I think what you're describing is really some direct forms of biophilia where it's live plants. But I know you're also, so indoor landscaping or indoor outdoor landscaping, but I know you've also done a project whereby you've co-created, it seems, a collection of
00:26:23
Speaker
biophilic artworks, which to me would look like indirect forms of biophilic art, so a way to connect with nature, but through, are they prints? Are they original artworks? How did you go about that? What was the story behind that? Yeah, so very cool story. And it feels like the most wonderful project because it's with my mother. My mother is a very renowned landscape architect who has done
00:26:53
Speaker
so many projects all throughout California, Santa Barbara, Montecito, Napa Valley, the Bay Area, and here in Portland. And she is retired now. And a few years ago, I've been trying to, and she went to art school. I mean, she's an amazing artist and painter, but she has not painted since she was in college.
00:27:19
Speaker
And so I was very inspired to, I bought her canvases and paints and things like that. And she slowly started getting into it. But then what really took off is that I'm a photographer. I've been a photographer for years. I started out when I was in art school in Europe and I love photographing nature. I love photographing when I go, I hike, I'm very active and I go when I photograph
00:27:46
Speaker
the macro of a mushroom close, of a mushroom open, just having that perspective deeper into that lens. And I would bring my photos or I would send them to her on my phone and she would just be inspired and just this light bulb hit with her and she started painting them.
00:28:07
Speaker
And then she started painting indoor plants during the pandemic where I wasn't going out so much. So we kind of went in, right? And so she started painting these beautiful monsteras and these palms and ferns. And I put them all in my studio here and we put them in the house and it just really invoked such a positive mood.
00:28:35
Speaker
And so that was, that's sort of the start of our biophilic prints and we're opening up a store on Etsy and going to be selling them on the, on the site as well. And, and just, and just really have fun with it.
00:28:51
Speaker
I like it. You've got your husband making windows out onto the back garden for you. You've got your mom making powerful artworks. Getting everyone busy, right? I got my son's gardening in the yard. No, it's great. I cook for everybody. Yeah. All hands on deck. Out of our garden. What's that? It sounds good to me. All hands on deck. Getting a whole family involved. I know. Very good.
00:29:10
Speaker
And how are you seeing things now as we're looking ahead, as we're sort of, I think there's this feeling of cautious optimism for the next six months, but how are you seeing things? I know it's been a tough hustle over the last 18 months for most of us working in this game, but it does feel like there's perhaps just this opportunity now, right, when the themes we've been talking about for a while are suddenly becoming a little bit more understood and appreciated. Are you picking up on that? Are you feeling optimistic for the next six months? How do you see it?
00:29:39
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. I feel like this is a breath of fresh air and people are hungry for it. They've also spent a lot of time in their home environment, right? They've been like, ugh. And they realize that they can do better and they want to do better. And they're still working. They're still working from home. So they have income, a lot of people. And so they want to dial in their homes. And then a lot of people
00:30:06
Speaker
have gone out into their guards and gardening. So they really are taking pride and ownership into their own environment, which just feels really good. So it's for me as a environmental designer, I feel like it's just opened up this avenue of awareness and also desire to dial things in a little bit deeper and to realize that that's good money well spent rather than
00:30:36
Speaker
an option of kind of a luxury, I should say.
Practical Home Health Advice
00:30:41
Speaker
It's looking more like they want to take care of their health. They want to take care of their place and they want to source better materials. So it's the residential piece that we've talked about, you and I, is that having people
00:31:02
Speaker
you know, showing them how to do that and offering that service to be able to dive in deeper. So they're actually applying these things on a personal level. You just have to give someone like a really top line, you know, a few tips, just the sort of the basics when you're talking to someone who's perhaps not necessarily thinking today about
00:31:23
Speaker
creating a healthy home, but they have, as you say, over the last 18 months become more aware that actually, yeah, it's important to think about that and perhaps they're not doing enough and therefore, okay, what are the first few things that everyone should be thinking about? Indoor air quality, obviously, number one. Test your air first. Find out what's really going on in your environment just to get a baseline and then work with us on going over the report. And really, that's just like if you want to start somewhere,
00:31:53
Speaker
and then dial it in with an air purifier and to reduce those VOCs and then figure out where the source is coming in. Bring in more plants, definitely. Bring in more plants, put in a little humidor, it's called a humidity monitor and check to see how is your house functioning. If you're living in Florida, it's going to be very high, so stick a dehumidifier in there. So just really kind of
00:32:21
Speaker
Be one with your space and then also notice where you spend your most your time like in your bedroom when you wake up What do you look at first thing? I? Say it's a fantastic Trick or a tip I should say is put a photograph or put something inspiring or a beautiful plant or your you know your Meditation station or something? inspiring to Look at when you wake up every morning
00:32:51
Speaker
Also, pay attention to where you put your electronics. Try not to have them next to your bed. Turn your phone and your wireless router off at night. That's a good easy tip. Nice. And the routers, I found the best way, at least with that, was finding these multi-plugs with timers on.
00:33:14
Speaker
So I'm going to set the timer so that it just goes off at midnight and comes back on. If you do have to have Wi-Fi. Yeah, for sure. I like it. Lots of great tips and information in there. Really cool. We'll link to everything on the show notes. And thank you so much again for your time. It's been awesome. Thank you, Matt. Really appreciate it. Love chatting with you. Thank you so much.