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Tackling Waste With Tech | Abhay Deshpande @ Recykal
350 Plays1 year ago
Abhay started India’s first pure play e-commerce website called malamall.com way back in 1998, at a time when the internet ecosystem in India was non-existent and not even 1% of India’s population was online. This episode is a candid and honest story of the struggles of entrepreneurship and proves how grit can make you successful, even if it takes decades.
Know about:-
- Building malamall.com, India’s first e-commerce site
- Experiences of building Martjack
- How do consumers look at waste
- Deposit return system
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Transcript
Introduction and Concept of Junoon
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, this is Abhay Deshpande, founder at Recycle, a distant platform in the waste management industry.
00:00:18
Speaker
Have you heard of the word Junoon? It is a mix of passion and craziness. And this episode of the Founder Thesis Podcast is a showcase of how sometimes all you need is Junoon to be an entrepreneur.
The Founder Thesis Podcast and Sustainability Tech
00:00:31
Speaker
In this episode of the Founder Thesis Podcast, your host Akshay Dutt is talking with Abhay Deshpande, the founder of the sustainability tech startup Recycle.
Malamal.com: India's First E-commerce
00:00:40
Speaker
Abhay started India's very first pure play e-commerce website called malamal.com way back in 1998 at a time when the internet ecosystem in India was non-existent and not even 1% of India's population was online. This episode is a candid and brutally honest story of the struggles of entrepreneurship and proof of how grit can make you successful even if it takes decades. Listen on and if you like such insightful conversations with disruptive startup founders
00:01:07
Speaker
then do subscribe to the founder thesis podcast or any audio streaming app.
00:01:24
Speaker
So I saw a lot of people carrying those trarachi biscuits and polarity sweets in the train. And a lot of my friends, Hyderabadis, who were in Bombay, used to ask me, can you get us this? Paradise Biryani, Kravajita Bistuit, all those things I saw. And that's when I saw the train, I used to see those boxes.
00:01:45
Speaker
These products are emotionally connected. These are the products which they want. But there's no channel to get this product in Bombay or
Challenges of Early E-commerce in India
00:01:54
Speaker
Delhi. That's where my first e-commerce venture was born. That idea came in there. And then we named it as malamal.for when that started in 1999. That was the journey of my entrepreneurship.
00:02:08
Speaker
And this was like pure e-commerce where you can pay online through payment gateway. Completely, for pure e-commerce. So, arguably, Malamal was the first e-commerce site or marketplace in India. It was very early days. It was 10 years ahead of the time, I can tell you. But then being an entrepreneur, your instinct, you feel that you are like, you see much ahead, things much ahead.
00:02:32
Speaker
And the access sheet is a beautiful tool, so I have to prepare a business plan. As for that, we were supposed to do a billion dollar GMV in 2001 itself. I was excited. The idea was the three-quality, local specialty one. So we didn't go to the mainstream e-commerce. And we started the day I got, I didn't have much of the money, then I got one of my friend Anurad Dixit.
00:03:00
Speaker
who was also a founder of Party Gaming. It was one of the largest success stories created by Indian Computer Online. So he liked my idea. So he became a first investor, but he put in some pretty acts in the company. Then I got funding from a fund called I2DC Ventures. So they invested around two to an half crore rupees during those days.
00:03:18
Speaker
In fact, they wanted to invest more, but I didn't take it. Those are the crazy days of Web 1.0, right? The business kicked off, but India was not ready for it. Although we realized it very soon that there were only 3 million internet connections. That is also the dial-up connections. There was no mobiles. The whole ecosystem, credit cards, only 2 million credit cards. Out there do the e-commerce. At the logistics, when we started first, we made the same site live, started promoting it online. And the first day, we got 15-20 orders from NRIs.
00:03:47
Speaker
And what do we do? Next day we came to offices and saw there are 20 orders. Then we took scooters, all our six, seven people. I personally made at least 150 deliveries to the customers, going to their places. Hey, flowers, seeds, all their gifts, my journey. But it was definitely unnerving. We realized that how do customers look at the e-commerce? What are their expectations?
00:04:10
Speaker
And many times when we used to go to them, they said, it doesn't look like a delivery boy. So we used to tell them, hey, there are so many orders today. Your order is important for us. So it came, I'll give you a word. So I think it was definitely a learning, because e-commerce was a very ugly stage. And then even the payment gateway was not there. So when ICHF bank launched the payment gateway, I think we were among first one or two guys who got the payment gateway from there. At 5.5% per month and 3% of withholding. So 8% per transaction charges.
00:04:40
Speaker
with the payment gateway integration fees of 3 lakh rupees. We did all that. It took 1 month for us to integrate payment gateway and then 60% transaction failure, all that.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's a pretty interesting time. It's where the e-commerce was born in the country and then Reddit came, media time started. A lot of other guys also came in. But that was my first interaction with e-commerce play. Interesting time, I think that is where we learned a lot. The company name was malamal.com. But we couldn't become malamal from money.
00:05:14
Speaker
But I learned a lot as an entrepreneur. I learned a lot from the learning experience. Being a middle class, first generation entrepreneur, I think, they taught us a lot of lessons, what you should not do in the business. And particularly in the business, like what I was trying to build, e-commerce, which are like new age businesses. It was not a traditional business. So quite a learning, I think. How many years did you give to Balawal?
00:05:36
Speaker
So 99 to 2006, almost seven years. So what happened after this 99 I started, 2000 it was like every PR, media, we were everywhere. I got two offers. There was an offer to buy Malamal at 32 crore rupees, right? 32 crore. And decent money those days. And the GMV was 32 lakhs per month.
00:05:59
Speaker
and I was offered 32 crores. Those were like different days. Why didn't you sell? I think that being a first-generation entrepreneur, my baby, my company, why should I? The ecosystem didn't exist that time. Nobody knew how these things happened. 99 was pretty early. Amazon started in 96, so I think those are all new.
00:06:20
Speaker
In India, all this was like learning and I didn't sell it. I said, no, no, I would like to continue and I would like to build it further. At that time, I think there was a deal. Satyam acquired some company for some crazy 350, 700 crores.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, India.com. Yeah. Something, correct. So, I thought they were offered 700 crores and we were offered only 32 crores. This was 72 lakhs. I said, no, that's not fair. We are not getting the right value. Anyway, that's a small point, but I think there was no proper guidance or ecosystem that time. So, I didn't say, don't read it about it even today. I think there was something bigger in the line, but then after that, no one even offered 32 lakhs also for the company.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure they got the dark quest. First happened, then I was still optimistic that the funding might happen. I was still a big entrepreneur. There were some conversations going on. But by the time I realized it took one year almost, nothing is going to happen here. We had liabilities of around four, four and half crore rupees or five crore on the company.
00:07:24
Speaker
They employ salaries, vendor payment, tax payments, all that, whatever happens in the startup like that. And where do I go? My total rupees, liability. My father was a government servant. He has not retired with money or 30 light rupees. So this is like a different situation altogether. So I had two options, close the company and join somewhere. Or the other option was to continue. I decided to continue. I didn't want people to say that you have duped their money or intent was not that.
00:07:52
Speaker
So continued from that 2001 to 2005, four years, we continued very tough time. I think that is the time where I really learned a lot of aspects of human who are the friends, who are really good to help you. A lot of things. You learn those bad times, choosing a lot of... When the time was good, everybody was behind us. Everybody else wanted my interview, but after two months, nobody was looking back. Investors were behind me, buyers were behind me. So when the...
00:08:18
Speaker
I saw that. That five years was toughest. Did you ever make any profits in there? No. Malamal, we were making profits, no doubt about it. It was not like 3-4 crore rupees, 5 crore rupees per year, those days. 50-60 lakh rupees per month. But then, because the ecosystem was not, Indians were not buying yet. But then we somehow survived. I cleared a lot of liability in the next four years, continued that journey.
00:08:47
Speaker
Now, I was at the first time. I saw the days where my daughter was asked in school. I could not pay her fees. There were days like I sold the old newspapers and bought a meal for her family. It was all the worst what you could see. But never fail to share that. I knew that something big would happen someday. That massage all the time. I know that we call it that was there. And the biggest thing was the family support. I think my wife found me supported.
00:09:13
Speaker
Although in those days, tough times where people are coming to home, you can't pay maids money also. So that's a very difficult time situation. I had a daughter by then. She was already two years, could not buy toys, could not do anything for her. So all this turns out to be a different story, but then I think profit-wise, smaller profits, but then it was going mostly to clearing the whole liabilities. That's what we did. So in 2005, almost like most of the external liabilities got cleared. Initially, people were like,
00:09:42
Speaker
When they knew that your property is not doing good, a lot of people started coming to the office. One thing I always did, I never ran away from people. I used to make them. I always speak their call. I say, I don't have anything today. But I owe you 10 lakh rupees. But I pay. When? I don't know. Trust me. Trust me. I'm not going to run away. And then slowly the confidence got built in people. They again started giving us credit, in fact. And I realized that running away is not a solution. They just need to fight. Be there. If your intakes are good, people will support. And that really happened.
00:10:12
Speaker
The whole thing, almost all the liabilities were cleared. Only close people's liabilities were there by 2005, 2006.
Strategic Pivot to B2B and SaaS Platform
00:10:19
Speaker
I said, now that's the time I made a switch from B2C to B2B.
00:10:25
Speaker
And within Malamal only, within the same company only. So I think what happened then, it's almost all the languages got cleared and by then all these guys who were on Malamal, who were selling on Malamal, many of them started calling me that they wanted to start their own economy. That was in 2006, 2007.
00:10:43
Speaker
I realized that I knew these retailers pretty well because by then I worked with them for seven years. I know that anything they can do but they don't understand technology and technology is something they don't want to even get. So I said I need with their demand and I know that how difficult it is to build e-commerce sites in India those days.
00:11:03
Speaker
There might be need of a platform which can help them build their own e-commerce site without knowing anything about the technology. That was a thought. I didn't know the SaaS word by then. SaaS word came later. And then we said, okay, subscription all about Albarate and cloud was new. So we were among the first few cloud adopters. So that's how the project was born. Let's build a platform or a technology which will help the small retailer to go online and build his website xyz.com and start selling your customers.
00:11:33
Speaker
That's because in India, ourselves, for this audience, that's what I was telling. So I think, again, as an entrepreneur, she was prepared, business model. 12 million retailers in this country, 1.5% become online. I wasn't a billion dollar company. I said, I'm happy, relaxed, and let's start. So I started and I went to a couple of people, the old guys who met me.
00:11:56
Speaker
pitched my new business, the guys whom I knew. They were not the investors in Malamal. I reached out to all Malamal investors also, offered them equity in this company. I said, boss, I'm closing this, starting this, but it's my fiduciary responsibility that I would like to offer equity to them. I did that to some extent. And then a couple of new guys trusted. They saw me fighting out this battle for Celsius on India. They said, the Bagedadi market. And that's how they, I got the first investment of a few cards, 1.5 cards from the firm guys, from Marjak in 2007.
00:12:27
Speaker
PPT, only PPT. I still remember the first meeting. So, when I got a call from Mr. Modhida, who was the first investor. So, my car was not working. I had an indie car that was not working that time. So, I had to go and I didn't have money. So, I took 100 rupees from a chai walla below our office. There was a chai walla. So, I had to go. And then, we and one of my friend Umesh, we went to Bodhili to present Marc Jack. 35 rupees of Ato and two cigarettes. So, we had left only 30 rupees in our farm.
00:12:55
Speaker
And I went there and sold Boorlee $100 million to him. Umesh was literally shocked. Boorlee has 30 rupees in the pocket. And Boorlee became the first investor of Marc Jack. He said, I liked it and I liked it first. And this 100 rupees really was very valuable. And when I exited, I made sure that the value is given back to the Chaiwala Act.
00:13:18
Speaker
But we'll talk about it later. That's how the whole started. And India, after building, and when you build a software, we build a DIY, all this we did. But by the time, in two years, one and a half years, and it was initial focus was SMEs. $2.99, $4.99, $5.99 rupees. They would give them hosting and DIYs. Probably. But the login, domain name, space, everything, they can create the storyline.
00:13:48
Speaker
and the second fees of $5,000, they dropped some, right? They went to integration, logistic integration, subcoach. Well, amazing. The idea was to do a lot of retail, everybody will pay you a thousand rupees, and then you get from mantra MRR into ARR into multiples, so it was built. But then we went to the market to realize that, and then after one year I started offering, India is not a software as a service market.
00:14:15
Speaker
India is a software and a service market, as is replaced by hand. So that I realized very soon. The second learning we had, I had in first two, three years operating, we had almost 10-15,000 customers who signed up with us, freemium, paid, some military.
00:14:34
Speaker
70% no pay in it after the first installment, right? And then the renewal, the SaaS is a prepaid model. India will post it when you can't go to call customer. India will tell. US may Shopify, you have to pay first, put your credit card and think it can be successful. You have to check Bejega, invoice Bejega, Admi Bejega, it's all different world all together.
00:14:56
Speaker
All I said was this SMB is not good. Today I have a strong opinion that India focused SMB SaaS still has a long way to go. It's not yet there. It will take 2030, 2030, 2030. We might see some traction there. When all this Zoho and all these companies are successful because they are customers and they pay them in advance and they have adopted technology.
Potential Amazon Acquisition and Shift to Enterprise Clients
00:15:17
Speaker
I saw that journey and then in 2010, 11, I realized in a very hard way. 11 may, I think,
00:15:25
Speaker
We had a very interesting conversation where Amazon wanted to acquire us. By making this public first time, right? This is nowhere. In one of my interviews, this was made public. Amit Adrawal, Amit Deshpande reached out to me and in 2011, the conversation started. They wanted to acquire. Before they officially lost an entry. Yeah, they actually, in fact, that was the plan. Marjak acquisition and Loggia, Amazon. So by this acquisition, they will get a network of retailers. Absolutely, absolutely.
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, the sourcing is done and the technology platform is done. That was a simple thing. They reached out. We had eight, nine months, and we had conversations. Decent deal. Decent deal. It was like, who is acquiring you? Amazon is acquiring. That was a kick measure. Cash-wise, it was a decent deal. All we had gone through was new diligence. My first HR interview happened.
00:16:22
Speaker
Did you read Bezos? I could not get everyone on the screen. But his deal was around $50 million. So he generally meets $400 million.
00:16:39
Speaker
I couldn't go through at the end. And then I realized I had proper other offers. Why didn't the deal go through? So I'll tell you. So what happened first, they wanted to acquire and then we said, we don't want to sell. And then the distinction went out to the investment distinction. And again, the motto acquisition and then acquisition was finalized, term shift signed, SHA almost finalized. 15 days later, we were supposed to sign that agreement.
00:17:03
Speaker
And you get a call from their profit development head from the deal is not happening. The reason which I keep to know later was there was a difference of opinion between the two top guys. We should acquire it. But that was the internal purpose. But the startup was almost what killed in that process. Your focus is away from everything.
00:17:23
Speaker
Every day morning, anything you want to do, you question what will Amazon, does it fit the Amazon policy or not? And you don't raise money. There were two, three investment offers. We said no. And then you get one gone in the evening, ruthless. Yeah, but we are not doing this, but we are wanting to invest X million dollars. But we are wanting to invest X million dollars over this roofer and all those things. I said, nothing to it. I lost there. I said, I don't want to go ahead. It was a tough decision. And then I felt that is the first time really I broke.
00:17:51
Speaker
Let me tell you, I have seen worse days, there was no food, there was no nothing. I never had more than 50,000 macrotats. There was no medical emergency in the whole life till then. And that life was going on. But that was the time I felt that 98 to 2012, 14 years, I'm going through all this hell ups and downs.
00:18:10
Speaker
This is not done. This is too much. I'm so close, so near and so far. And almost many of my investors started counting the money because they know that the deal is at the primal stage. And then you suddenly become a villain for investors also. I had just a new idea. In Marjak, I had 86 investors who owned my raise $7 million in 132 trenches. I'm not wrong. 100 months company investment came in 132 trenches. So my job was to only raise money.
00:18:36
Speaker
and 86 drives invested. I met 86 drives, 86 drives invested. I had 110 VC meetings, every other rejection, nobody invested.
00:18:47
Speaker
It's 100% rejection in VCs, 100% success ratio on the individual investors. Many times, I feel that the angels were really my angels during that period. And therefore, none of them I knew before. And all these are from 11 countries, 22 cities. So they were issued to all this done deal now. And suddenly, they realized that the deal is not happy. That was, then I became a villain for some time. You don't know how to do deals. We should have got issues involved and all that stuff on guys, not everyone. But then, and, but
00:19:16
Speaker
Being the founder, when you go to the office next day, you need to be strong. You can't just make your shoulders down because then the whole system will collapse.
00:19:24
Speaker
Then that is the first time I truly broke the intent of my wife. I said, this is not, this is too much. The road is testing us too much. I understand that there is a tough time, but not so close and so far. So anyway, so today it was definitely tough time, but I have to come back. I have to do whatever, you know, the next day I have to be in the office with the children's office. No, nothing happens. Whatever happens for the best. We have something bigger written in our destiny. Let's try.
00:19:51
Speaker
lost one or two good people because of that process. They lost the trust on the whole thing. One of them was my right hand and he ended up joining in Amazon only.
00:20:06
Speaker
But then there, I realized that yes, I need to be well again in each other. I need to be enterprise. I need to be enterprise. And that's where we changed our gears in 2011 from SAP to enterprise. Although initially, it was the same while into a new model. From RC, it went to the main village and started materializing that. Started positioning as an enterprise. Started changing mindset internally. And luckily, the first client we got in enterprise was Walmart India.
00:20:32
Speaker
What? And that was I think a game changer. But Walmart India never had an e-commerce platform or did they have? We did an e-commerce platform. So did you get login and place the orders? That was amazing. They were amazing numbers. So that was a game changer for us. And then we learned how to serve enterprise. Then we got no-no. We got these other many clients followed. Then we stopped. We almost assembled at business and stopped. Positioning changed.
00:20:58
Speaker
Marjak Enterprise became a main driver and that made a survive and that actually next two years was a complete transition from and the very few companies can do that from SMB from a two night so I started my journey with 299 rupees per month and last deal I sold was 69 lakh rupees per month. What was the pricing based on? It was software and service or? Initially to that 2.99 was only software the 69 lakh was 70 percent software 30 percent service.
00:21:28
Speaker
That is the trend I kept up. Say your first customer Walmart, what was your product offering to them? The whole B2B platform, completely traveled the state and they were using it. Integrate with their inventory. All the integrations, they paid a few lakhs for the integration. Then they used to pay some monthly fees as a fast fees. Walmart working on a SaaS model, I think first time happened in the history also that time.
00:21:52
Speaker
And that really worked. They were with us for four or five years. Almost in my exit till I never sold. So and even the last client, which I sold six million for a month, they also wanted to use it for multiple products, multiple businesses. It was Americana.
00:22:10
Speaker
Indians don't pay that ton of price. You get the price in other markets. But on this end, I think that journey actually made us survive. Then we have Unilever as our client. We had many good clients, 50 only, but strong clients, Biba, Fab India, all these were out. So we learned through that journey. And these were companies setting up, were facing commerce sites? Yeah, yeah. They were producing e-commerce sites, mobile applications, all that was an only channel platform.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, and paying interest on a SaaS. One is a set of fees and then SaaS fees every month was the bottom. So that really worked. And that role would have changed from these two sales, I guess. There were three jobs I used to do. Getting good talent was my responsibility. And generally, I was decently successful in that. Second one, raising money every month in June 8. What did you try to just continue till last?
00:23:03
Speaker
I had to say this was the development. We had a team, but major of these large accounts, I was a big head. So we had that good clients. We almost reached to two corroded for a month kind of MRR on here. By 2015, 14 end, it was showing good traction, very close to breakeven profitability. All that was there.
00:23:26
Speaker
And that is where I think the margin acquisition happened and that is where Capillary reached out to us. And Capillary is already CRM, same customers, there was a overlap. I knew Anish knew me before. And we said, looks like one plus one is equal to 11 storeys can be built. And I had the whole marriage went through another seven, eight months I think. But definitely all the investors got into it. Many of my work got so much cash equity.
00:23:52
Speaker
At the end of the day, it was a very good deal from one's perspective. That happened in September 2015, the acquisition got closed. Might be one of the largest acquisitions during those days.
00:24:06
Speaker
There was good integration. Everything happened pretty well. You continued as in you became part of capillary then? Yeah, I became part of capillary. Me and my other co-founders became part of the capillary. I was there for one and a half years after that. All the transition happened properly. My other co-founders continued for almost three years. I moved on after one and a half. Me and my entrepreneurs were always entrepreneurs. So in December 2016, I moved on.
00:24:30
Speaker
And I didn't know what to do, but then I decided to take a break because it was a long journey of almost 18 years, 17 years, tough times. I wanted to take a break. First of all, the intent was to take a break of six months and spend time with the family. Then I never had a holiday, no dreams, nothing. And my daughter was already 14, 15 by then. So I said, next day to break and spend some time with them. And that made me to come out and decided to sit at home for six months. But that didn't happen again.
00:25:03
Speaker
So what happened that like when you took the break? Yeah, so then I took a break. The first idea was that to sit at home and spend time with family for six months. But then the sixth day at home, I realized that sitting at home was not my top of day. It's the first realization. First two, three days were good.
00:25:21
Speaker
And most importantly, my daughter and my wife started feeling that their privacy is getting disturbed. They never saw me at home. I also realized that this is not something I can do for more. So I went back to the ecosystem, started meeting, going back to Hyderabad, gave me a lot of things. I thought I'll give it back and started doing many startups here, all places I got involved. They wanted me to be involved, their ISP, some places.
00:25:49
Speaker
During that process, I became an accidentally investor. So I invested in almost like a couple of startups. I invested in six or seven startups. You know, like my investment one, there is one company which recently got acquired by Chola, 70%. So I was invested there. Then I was invested in the GST platform, which was built by one of the local entrepreneurs that also got acquired by PlayStation.
00:26:17
Speaker
And so almost and then there are two more sides. One is this startup called Sono. So I invested in six, seven such startups and major investment was on the people. And the success ratio is decent. Two acquisitions, two are doing good, one failed. One failure out of seven is not a bad, bad, bad ratio. But as I said, I was absent in the industry. I never won. I still had the energy that I can build more startups. I don't need to be honest.
00:26:40
Speaker
Then I even thought of starting 100 million and they did some work, got some commitments, especially million commitments also I got. But then during that process, I realized that, yeah, this is, I'm still a horse where people can pet. And I don't need to be, I was not enjoying that. Absolutely.
00:27:05
Speaker
So then I turned off all those plans, stopped investing. I said, sub 1 trillion. And then I started thinking about what to be done next. And that is where I think the whole recycling story started.
Founding Recycle and Waste Management Focus
00:27:17
Speaker
So in 2016, mid, I started to capture this in 2015. And then I said, now let's get into some serious activity.
00:27:30
Speaker
And I started thinking what to be done next. By then, I had some brand name associated. So I was thinking, let's solve some real problem this time. Something which has a larger impact on society. And Tableau Instinct made that US management looks like a botch. And zero idea, except the Kabariwala, which comes at home to take the paper and everything, we didn't know anything.
00:27:58
Speaker
But instead of that, there is a lot of opportunity. Let's go there. And today was an online report, but now I know that the reports are going to be in the ground. It is completely different. I think the service is different from the last one. I think India is different from India. The reality is different completely.
00:28:20
Speaker
So I said, you're a character. And what was happening that most of the entrepreneurs that time were focusing on pre-consumption and consumption stage of disruption. Nobody was thinking about post-consumption. And one of the disadvantages I had in my life that even I started Marjak, but Malama and Palama was 10 years ahead of me, 98. But the Marjak was four years ahead of me, and today I improve.
00:28:46
Speaker
So at least I wanted this time to be on time. But I think that it really was supposed to happen. We want to invest in this space. I committed a million dollars in my investor team. So I obviously was my president who was a co-founder. He also had me. He wanted to do a startup for three years. He was calling me every three months with new business plan.
00:29:08
Speaker
I was studying here, so I always used to tell the neighbor, I was studying this. As soon as my idea happened, I told him to resign and talk.
00:29:18
Speaker
Then he came in and then he started, he was threatening everything. I wanted to take a break. So we did a lot of research and then we felt that it's my good thing. That we made a conviction. And the whole plan was to expect a team of 25-30 people, a fresh team. Go in this space, work with every stakeholder. Don't worry about revenue.
00:29:38
Speaker
Let's understand each stakeholder. It's not an easy market to crack. It's so informal, so cash-driven. We need to have a different approach altogether. So, I think that is where these first two years, we generally call as our Harvard MBA in West Management for 25-30 years. That's how we call it.
00:29:56
Speaker
We launched a consumer product called UZD. We wanted to get in the space. When we go to the ecosystem, we have a decent almost 300,000 or 400,000 downloads. We picked up almost 80,000 orders from people's homes. Why would someone download UZD? What was the proposition?
00:30:18
Speaker
See, it was very simple. Whatever trash you had at home, plastic paper, you can dispose it using data. Yes, sir. We also wanted to understand the consumer psychology. How does the consumer look at the waste?
00:30:45
Speaker
You would pay consumer cash for this. You would pay consumer cash or Amazon watchers. Amazon or clickpad watchers. Cash watchers initially started with distrons. Then we learned that the distrons doesn't work. Then they need to be given cash because that's supposed to be the Indian consumer code.
00:31:19
Speaker
Nothing called waste, everything people expect value. And we learned that the consumer treats each category separately. For example,
00:31:26
Speaker
You had some e-commerce kind of a blast.
00:31:33
Speaker
Plastic or paper, for example, paper, newspaper, you will never find a millionaire or billionaire also throwing the newspaper in the air. But straight people don't throw it. But straight people don't throw it. But straight people don't throw it. But straight people don't throw it. But straight people don't throw it. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people don't throw it in the air. But straight people
00:32:00
Speaker
And the question is treated differently. It is a discipline atom. Actually, it is more valuable than people. And third, e-waste. E-waste, the problem is it is the leader's e-waste.
00:32:08
Speaker
Indian, you might still have a Nokia 110 phone in your house somewhere trying the drawer. My father-in-law has a 20-year-old computer. They have the pursuit of my brother. He has a problem with the road. It is a legacy waste. So we learned that each vertical will need a different treatment.
00:32:38
Speaker
it needs a different treatment different ecosystem different kind of processes.
00:32:43
Speaker
We then met almost 500 directors. So people would download the app and then they would pick up requests. And then our man will go... I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app. I don't know how many people will download the app.
00:33:30
Speaker
We wanted to learn the ecosystem, we wanted to have a product and we wanted to have learning of consumer business. It was very costly after.
00:33:36
Speaker
And what happened with what you collected?
00:33:54
Speaker
Because it took a lot of work to do, but it took a lot of work to do. We did a PhD in that we learned that we had to work on a system that needed to be handled differently.
00:34:15
Speaker
We used to give it to other guys. Never thought about making money or anything. We wanted to just learn the system. We realized that it is the whole world.
00:34:42
Speaker
different world together. This waste is, looks like very different, but it's all golden. This is the ocean. But to know that it took two years, hard work. We went to ground level. How does they operate?
00:35:01
Speaker
All that was a big learning. Recyclers started, they were, they are chapters of the internet. So I remember when I went to Malamal with the Polarity Suites Hyderabad, which is very famous, he asked me the same question. I said, sir, I have permission to go to Hyderabad.
00:35:29
Speaker
Same thing I always say here, you recycle the whole thing. I have a question here. This is a resource for somebody. Let's not look at it as a resource. This is actually a raw material for you.
00:35:53
Speaker
And then the use was the first point where we did a lot of experiments, learned a lot of stuff about segregation. Our most important ecosystem is for players. We have a variety of activities, aggregators, and recyclables. We have a lot of opportunities. We have a lot of opportunities. We have a lot of things to do.
00:36:19
Speaker
So an aggregator is like someone with a warehouse who will take from Kavadiwala and then segregate and then sell it to recyclers. Yes. If you look at the ecosystem, Akshay, so there are seven people, seven to eight people. After the research, there has been a plastic metal tire. Our end destination is Pinophi. Ocean, land free.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah, or resetting, resetting. That whole plastic need to be compacted.
00:37:08
Speaker
All that segregation happens, then all the votals are taken together and they are building machines for that. The builders are in a separate community there. An end destination recycler.
00:37:27
Speaker
So I saw anything from three to seven steps, waste, fix, while it goes through the ecosystem. But how do we create a system where we can disrupt that and the intermediary, because then our technology can be there.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work.
Impact of EPR on Waste Management
00:38:32
Speaker
And luckily, that is the time where during the 2017-18, there was something called EPR, Extended Producer Responsibility, that came. Okay. So this was a game changer. What is this EPR? Yeah, I will tell you. There is a compliance requirement. So I generally connect it with the deep or demonetization did for fintech industry. I think EPR made for the investment.
00:38:35
Speaker
January 2019.
00:38:56
Speaker
The government came up with the regulation that all the producers, for example, Unilever, Pepsi, Coke, they used plastic packaging and sold the material to the customers. And they used to forget about it, improperly responsible. CPCB and Minister of Environment came in, nothing to it. You have to collect back whatever you are, or plastic footprint you are creating. That is your response.
00:39:20
Speaker
That was the game changer. Suddenly, these brands, all thousands of brands were not the part of the waste management ecosystem, suddenly became a part of the ecosystem. And they don't know where their waste is going, but nobody was bothered. And all this waste management, either they are informal or NGOs, is corporate world, corporate vendor registration. And the registration position is so obligated. And even with thousands of people, that's where we
00:39:48
Speaker
But I want to ask about EPR-1 clarification. This is essentially telling a producer that you have to offset, not like, but it's just a post category key.
00:40:04
Speaker
Okay, got it. You have to get the collection, you have to prove that the material is collected from that. Collect and then recycle it. Dispose. Dispose. We created a platform called EPR loop, where brand is the target. On one side, we are all the service providers, NGOs who are doing the college. We connected them.
00:40:30
Speaker
And that was a game changer. So I think that was something which we was we knew how to handle. So that was also be to be customer, be to be business. So we had that skill of managing expectations, technology selling there. That was a game changer. And then May 2019, we were the first client of EPR, some affiliate or somebody.
00:40:51
Speaker
And thereafter, then two years, we had 100 plus clients. Now we work with 150 enterprise clients, including all big ones. And because of our digital approach, transparency, traceability, there is no one who does it this way. Most of our investment companies were doing the local work. And the two policies we always followed here. One, we don't do business with government. In a sense, we don't. Commercial business, we work with them. We partner with them.
00:41:20
Speaker
But we do everything free. We don't charge. We make money out of the platform. That's one quality sector. None of our employees touches waste. The reason is not that waste is bad or something. Because the day we start doing it, we are killing somebody's business. So we don't want to be the competition to anyone. We are very clear. We are an ecosystem builder. We are an enabler. We don't want, even the advertisers should not see us as home.
00:41:42
Speaker
So those people who are really doing their round work, they should feel us as a partner. And I think it took time. Building trust in this ecosystem was not easy because the private limited company, I think, is the customer of the company. Number one. Number two. Because of all the Swedish, Osomato, Ober, Ola, even everyone knew that they were the model model.
00:42:23
Speaker
It's a website of the year. The world has moved thanks to all the billions and all the unicorns and everyone has got customers awareness. It was really easy that market was ready for it. Although they were not convinced that we made that conviction. And we said, we want to work with you. We don't want to become a competition team. It took time. But then 2019 was the year where we started to innovate the B2B. This was launched. EPR launched.
00:42:35
Speaker
That was a change. I don't even have to explain.
00:42:50
Speaker
When you initially told me you wanted to switch from consumer to B2B, I assumed you meant that instead of sending your vehicle to a consumer house, you will send your vehicle to a mall or a factory and collect the garbage. That is the 2019 transition we made.
00:43:08
Speaker
Okay. Okay. You need to be a GST registered business. But then you're still handling in 2019, you were still handling garbage. In 2009, then when we started, by then we also learned we onboarded partners.
00:43:21
Speaker
Initially, we did, we saw... Collection was outsourced, basically. Collection and sorting, everything was outsourced. There are so many players in the market, right? So there are so many advanced, somebody who wanted to do some good work. So we onboarded them as a partner, hyper-local, right? In Hyderabad, we onboarded five people. And then all the orders coming from that area, where vehicle used to go and they picked up all the, under our SOPs and processes.
00:43:43
Speaker
Okay, so they would have some sort of an app where they could like, what should we get somebody to do, rider and restaurant, everyone has an app. So restaurant knows order again, rider knows pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up.
00:44:06
Speaker
We automated it. You were still running the warehouse for segregation? That was okay. That was part of the experiment. That was the part of our BA. Unless you do it yourself, you will not learn.
00:44:19
Speaker
So in 2019, we put out some studies where none of our people should touch it, let them do it. And that started pretty very well. A thousand customers were on board here by 2019. In terms of bulk. Okay. And by customer here, you mean producer of it?
00:44:40
Speaker
All this compliance, producer of waste, taken. And we onboarded around 25 compliance value, kind of from 25 companies we got. Post system, I know. It's where the corporates would pay you for collecting their waste. So there are two categories. Some waste, which is the recyclable, we used to pay them.
00:45:03
Speaker
and of some waste which is non-recyclable, they used to pay us, which needed to be disclosed. That was the way we started working. The pricing, the automated pricing, all the system was very good. It was a good service. They never saw such a professional service in that.
00:45:22
Speaker
This is basically on demand, like you don't have to do any advanced planning within 30 minutes or something like that.
00:45:38
Speaker
So these people then started helping us doing that. But by the time, for 2020, we had a bit plans to expand. EPR, your compliance customers, just tell me about them. So a compliance customer, if you give him documentation that this month. For example, you take the example of one brand, say Pitylite. He has a feeder footprint of, say, 50,000 metric ton in India by using that, we call that above packaging support.
00:46:06
Speaker
He has to disclose it to the CPCB, a proper format, you have to submit the report to CPCB. Then he used to come to our 4Q, any client will come to our 4Q, log in and then tell you that Marash try to collect 8000 metric tons, but they know state-wise. Then we have hundreds of service providers this side, who will bid for it, or they will say, I will do it, or their rates are there, we do the matching.
00:46:29
Speaker
What is the service provider here? West management companies. All these local NGOs, local guys. Basically doing collection and then dropping off to recycle. Absolutely, collection, processing. Bailing and then dropping it to recycle. All that will happen. They don't have the capacity to reach out to Unilever. They don't have an ecosystem. In a formal way, they are semi-formal.
00:46:53
Speaker
We've become a bridge between them and this platform become reason brand to be and then you would do some sort of kyc for the every transaction the vehicle photo also need to be taken from our app itself so that is no manipulation. That's the adoption then from 1 client to 150 client would could do in 24 months.
00:47:13
Speaker
And these organizations, these waste management organizations, would have double revenue. That one revenue could be the waste producer or the recycler. In fact, triple revenue. They could charge for disposing. They could charge the recycler because the recycler will pay us for it. And they will get this compliance fees, some part of the compliance fees they will get. So that was the revenue model. There was a top line item for them.
00:47:39
Speaker
So they were happy to be part of it. And they didn't want to get into the genjet of going to corporate, doing registration. All that was not there. This all job was done by our system. We also learned that if there was new. One question. We were talking of these waste management companies. For them, there are three sources of funding. And so for essentially the like a company like say PD Lite, you gave the example, they just need to show documentation that
00:48:07
Speaker
We have paid for X amount of X kilos of waste to be collected and recycled. We have collected this much of waste from this state, but that is our obligation. This is like a GST finding. This is a compliance requirement and very strict. It has become stricter in the last few years and because this is related to environment and all that stuff.
00:48:27
Speaker
So I think the initial adoption was only by the top company. Still, I don't think only 10% companies are adopted. It's still 90% of course. Is there any penalty if you don't know? Absolutely. The big penalty is they can close their factories. Both of them. Like the last company is what penalties of 10 crores, 5 crores or to July. See, any regulation x-type, global, EPR, about 5 like that. I'm pressing it already.
00:48:54
Speaker
So now the things are evolving, things are shifting up. So I think we'll have some... Is there some turnover criteria? Like companies above certain turnover need to comply? No, I think we'll have to look at it. Everyone will come. And this is applicable for plastic and e-waste. Look at India already running for the last four years. Now, tyre system has to be again. And batteries will be in batteries and I think one textile also.
00:49:24
Speaker
What do you charge for this? Is there like a standard market rate? Depends on the, for example, there is no recycling. So you have to get that waste from there to mainland China.
00:49:42
Speaker
So, the rate might be 30,000 rupees per metric. At the same time in Maharashtra collection and transportation and everything included might be 4,000. So, I think it ranges from say 1000 rupees per metric, 10 to say 30,000 rupees per metric. Depends on the size, depends on the thing and depends on the collection efforts and everything.
00:50:02
Speaker
Okay, so essentially the platform will calculate or the people will bid. Demand supply. There are already service providers, there are already companies, so it gets matched and we keep our margin there. The service platform fees because everything is done through our technology. Brand doesn't have to do anything. They can just file it too. So make their life very simple. They don't have to really follow up with multiple service providers. All that we actually removed from
00:50:32
Speaker
So make their life simple. OK. So essentially, it's like a reverse bidding. A company says, Mujer, $30,000 from Maharashtra, $30,000. And then the Maharashtra, my waste management organizations, will bid. We do the matching, in fact. Actually, we don't do it open bidding. Inter-requirement either. I have the Humboldt system matched with that. And then accordingly, I learned the depends on the rating of the person, how good work is doing. All that we should get out. We learned that in the last couple of years. So we have a smart system.
00:51:02
Speaker
Okay, so it's a managed marketplace. Apparently. See, one thing you have to keep in mind, there is nothing open. Any marketplace which will be used is managed. And I have spent 25 years in e-commerce. I can tell you that. Only there are certain processes made simpler. Historia has become easier.
00:51:23
Speaker
And communication and service has become important, nothing more. So, big-to-be marketplaces are not like big-to-see marketplaces. It's not like a shop internally, or a personal gateway, which still needs interventions, it still needs quality check, it needs some part. But this technology is making it scalable by producing the dependency of manpower by, say, 50-60%.
00:51:45
Speaker
That is how I look at the B2B marketplaces. Okay. It's where essentially, does your cost factor in that the organization will also earn from other sources or you just calculate your costage or other sources earning that is the bonus for the organization? No, we don't do that. The recycler will pay something. No, I'm a Pres. leader. Okay, so what will be the bonus? We tell you the bonus. But anyway, Jeeves, my company is near more income.
00:52:09
Speaker
There is a cost for that. There is a cost for segregation collection. The economic liability of this whole thing still needs to be figured out. So we thought they are putting the efforts, they should get it for the benefits. And the whole EPR objective is to improve the collection.
00:52:37
Speaker
I think that worked well. Both e-waste and plastic together were 140 trans right now.
00:52:50
Speaker
Last year we did around 200,000 metric tons of waste got generalised through our system. Almost 1,000 metric ton per day in March. So in 19 when you launched this, it was Pan India from the beginning? No, it was only Pune and Hyderabad 19. We did our learnings that B2BE was launched with the core core, it was a focus and EPR was launched with two services.
00:53:13
Speaker
But by the time, we wanted to make it big with 10-12 cities in next year. But unfortunately, pandemic started. In March, I had March with pandemic Churu where we had to pull out of corporate business even though as full, contagious properties of badminton.
00:53:27
Speaker
And suddenly from its number we become zero. So then we stayed the year and started getting into the job.
00:53:47
Speaker
But then suddenly, because of the change of pandemic, we moved our requests from corporate to informal. So, aggregators, tabade, voila, ustio, perforation. And that, I think, was really worked well for us. In fact, pandemic helped us. That is the real market.
00:54:02
Speaker
And that was like we started onboarding property one hours. One thing we've learned that whether it is pandemic, whether it is a decision, waste is ever been industry. Waste never stops. Waste never stops. Waste collection never stops. Waste is pandemic for business. We have changed here, technology changed here, focus changed here.
00:54:28
Speaker
In that year, we were really able to do better than what we did a year before. How did you onboard these waste management organizations? Because if you went to onboard across multiple cities, how do you find out? We hired e-commerce people. By then, I spent 20 years in e-commerce market places. I knew how they work.
00:54:50
Speaker
So, we made a pit on the street because of everything that was going on in the past. We had a lot of success, we had a lot of trust, we had a lot of money, we had a lot of partners, we had a lot of money, we had a lot of money. And anything, once they see that better price, better payment, they say, my name is payment milka, I'm going to pay for it. Change that habit, you need to do many things, right? So, you need to, then that trust building happened, you know, for a different time.
00:55:34
Speaker
Let us learn what are the 50 places where people will try to play with the system.
00:55:39
Speaker
We created some AI based engine, 70% clarity average quality.
00:56:08
Speaker
We did a lot of investment research. So that really worked. That was a period where understanding of the employment, onboarding those people, building that trust and building processes that you see is where we generally give the quality to the recyclers. It was around 2020. So when you open a new city, what is the setup then? You will first start with the collectors.
00:56:31
Speaker
I will do three people first from the industry. What thing is that? Eating talent has not been an issue always because for us always we got a talent because people my mindset has changed nowadays after pandemic, particularly people wanted to be a part of something which is impactful.
00:56:52
Speaker
I think money was the only criteria. We actually want people who wanted to enjoy and get associated with the frauds, which is much larger. I'm seeing that. We have people from IIT, IAM, ISP. We have people from all aspects. They have their jobs and joined us.
00:57:17
Speaker
But we saw that people acceptance for this is definitely was there. And so then we hired a team, they both meet the local aggregators, local companies. But now what has happened in the last one year that our network defense started out. So now we have a lot to do. We have to be able to do that.
00:57:46
Speaker
So I think that has now started happening. It took five, six years for us to achieve that organic growth and we're almost growing actually 30% month on month. I have not seen a business in my life. I used to celebrate 30% year on year in SaaS.
00:58:03
Speaker
But then it took the six years long efforts that pursuerance. So then last, that first informal segment, 20 majorly informal mid-year. And that was scaled up in 2022. We did a fourth financial year where we are really doing business. So we did around 18 crores of GWV, cross-waste value in 1920.
00:58:33
Speaker
20, 21, 16, 60 products. And this year we did around 200 products. We were in 3, 3.5 years. Even in the pandemic where we lost three, four months, both the tanks. How do you measure gross waste value? Is it the price at a recycler? What is that dead value? So for example, there is a radiator selling to the, to the recycler. All the normal bucket place, just a payment logistic customer we handle it.
00:59:02
Speaker
So that payment goes through us, right? Now, through our system. So that is the... We changed the terminology. Okay. So like coming back to setting up a city, so your team will go meet on what they used to do. They will go and meet the aggregators and tell them...
00:59:27
Speaker
There are their own ways of local language may I'd be available. Like he will take him. Like he will take him.
00:59:56
Speaker
You take care of logistics from aggregator to recycler.
01:00:14
Speaker
Logistics, payments, and customer service. All these three, as a normal market case does. Okay. Your first leg is the aggregators. Aggregators will list what they have with them, and then the recyclers will come and buy from aggregators through the platform. They will do an online payment, and you take care of logistics, and as soon as it is delivered, the money is transferred. Money, right. So it will persist through us.
01:00:37
Speaker
We are bringing also that lending angle into this to do the pre-cyclers, though when we launched our India, because the transaction volume has increased now. And so that the recycler... It's like a BNPL kind of thing. Absolutely. So there is a way of doing it. So there is a 2%, 3% game available.
01:01:02
Speaker
We thought let's play that. So we're bringing in that also by, say, August, September, we're planning to launch that. Okay, so aggregator and recycler. These are the two elements of that base. Yes, that is the marketplace. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think that is property one also. I think
01:01:47
Speaker
So, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would
01:01:54
Speaker
This Kabari Vala is not that Kabari Vala cycle.
01:02:15
Speaker
Absolutely. 55-60% of those people have smartphones. So we have opened the recycle foundation.
01:02:26
Speaker
So now the idea is, this year we want to do 10,000 rice formalization, but by 2025, a million rack quitters should be formalized and use our system to sell the material to a local kabaddi wala. We will not buy directly because quantities are small, but then we get the fair pricing of the market. And then what we are intending to do, brands are paying say 5,000 rupees per metric ton for ETR. We want 70% of that to go to the rack quitters. And that is where then the real disruption will happen.
01:02:52
Speaker
So that's how we are doing, we took low-ending fruits first. Now we are going deep into the system. How will the rack picker and the Kabariwala transaction work?
01:03:04
Speaker
We have partners now. We have the infrastructure, the sorting. So, we are repeaters who want to connect with each other. Rates are in the app. So, you will get this 14 rupees. But we have to make sure that the bank doesn't pay for it. We have to make sure that the government can purchase the app.
01:03:26
Speaker
All that, we were trying to make some steps of normalizing the ecosystem.
01:03:39
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
01:04:01
Speaker
These Kabaddi brothers then become like a franchisee outlet for you. They have to carry a recycle board on it. Recycle point. Okay, okay, okay. So that is the morning or morning we have to get this brain now.
01:04:17
Speaker
These franchises are like 100% businesses going through recycle platform. Not necessary, not necessary because they get multiple categories which we are not in. Nothing is forced here, nothing is forced here. We are keeping the ecosystem very open.
01:04:40
Speaker
But then people generally don't do, we have schemes. People should voluntarily sell rather than forcing them to sell.
01:05:01
Speaker
It's not possible. So, more has to happen on the value which you are giving to them. The value is good. He will be with you. If value is not good, he will go. And this compliance fees, how is that split? 70% goes to the service providers and all these guys. 77% above. We keep
01:05:21
Speaker
12 to 15% remains because of the service streams. Rest everything gets larger. I'm not understanding one thing. So, as a
01:05:38
Speaker
How does, what is the difference now between where a recycler is buying it or the compliance or it is getting registered as compliance? Compliance is separate. So compliance don't mix. There are two businesses we have. One is a marketless business. One is a sustainability business.
01:05:59
Speaker
The players are same, the Kabariwala is the same. The players are same, but it doesn't need to be applied transaction order. So, market place is treated separately. Market place of transaction order is selling. First advantage for him, the Kabariwala, he is getting extra 10% price from us, which he was not getting earlier.
01:06:15
Speaker
on the marketplace itself because of mixed load, don't make it intermediate, number one. So that's the biggest incentive for it. In addition to that, in that area and we have a compliance requirement there, another 50 paisa firm or another 500 rupees per meter, you will get for that. That's an additional loss. That makes it purchase sale to us. So it's a mix of that. So we treat, my thickness is our cake, compliance is our icing on the cake.
01:06:40
Speaker
But we don't want to build our business on IC, right? Or we don't want to build our business on compliance. There is always the risk. So what we have moved out now for the first two years, EPR was the focus. Now we have changed that whole position into sustainability now. So now we're not just, there is one part of it. We work with the branch for ESG, SDG goals. We have started working, packing their mechanism. What are you doing in like these other services?
01:07:06
Speaker
So the one thing which was launched recently called the Sustainability platform. And we are working with two corporates. I just worked at a startup, so I can name them, but they're very big. Half a million employees, 100,000 employees. So what we went to them to ESG is the buzzword. ESG is the next big thing. And we also wanted, and we realized during our business that we also insurance. So we didn't know ESG. Frankly, two years back, I'm going to do it.
01:07:40
Speaker
So then we also set you this opportunity where every corporate is serious about ESG and sustainability. Why can't we really help them in achieving their goals?
01:07:48
Speaker
So we took an approach that ESG is today a boardroom distillation and in your infrastructure distillation. Why can't unless it goes beyond the boardroom, the real ESG or sustainability, we can't see on the drop. So we came up with the approach that the ESG should go to your employees, right? Your team, your every employee should be ambassador for compliance, sorry for ESG or sustainability.
Engaging Employees in Sustainability Efforts
01:08:12
Speaker
So we build a platform where we try activity of each employee in their personal life.
01:08:18
Speaker
using our app, right? And give them a sustainability credits or carbon credits. For his actions in his house, for example, my electricity bill last month was 5,000 rupees. I have saved energy and this month is 3,500. That 1,500 is the energy I saved. So I get some sustainability credits. I was having a petrol car. I moved to EV car and I just need to be proven. This cannot be just an entry. It just need to be automatically proven.
01:08:43
Speaker
then I did the sustainability credits. I used to travel alone in a car. Now, four of us goes together and we track their location and travel once. Our system does that. So, all four of them get sustainability credits. So, we started building that whole platform and most importantly, street confidence which we are working with. We have convinced them that next year appraisal, the 10% of the credit should be for their sustainability credits and that is a game change.
01:09:12
Speaker
Now, otherwise, we are actually doing a lot of innovative things and waste also. They bring waste to their office. Every week, there is a counter.
01:09:20
Speaker
where the pre-plastic invest. So there's like a recycle collection point in the office. In the cockpit itself. And they are responsibly disposing it. So they get the credits for that. So we have that mechanism. So we have multiple activities there. So the idea basically is the vision, which we look at in that 2025, recycle should define the sustainability standards across the country. We should be one of the guys. So it's beyond compliance, beyond EPR. We already bought off.
01:09:46
Speaker
And when we go to the corporate today, we talk about EPR, we talk about sustainability partnership. And that's really working well and people are really looking at us that way. In addition to that, we have multiple technology disruptions. In the interest of time, I will tell you that we have a very good product, which we have built called deposit return system. Right. And so what happens if you look at globally, if you go to Australia, if you go to the US, if you buy a coke bottle, this will be $1 and there will be 10 cents deposit.
01:10:14
Speaker
If you consume the bottle and you return it to the reverse funding machine, you will get your 10 cents back. This has really worked wonders to open the collection ratio as one to 90%, 80%. And we know that in India, the waste problem has to be solved at a scale, deposit return system to the solution.
01:10:31
Speaker
We have built a complete platform. Which we used to have as kids because we used to fit... Class what? Class what? Class what? It's a manual. It has a lot of stuff to do with it. It has a lot of stuff to do with it, right? Yes. So, we are going to have to deposit it. We are going to have to deposit it. We are going to have to deposit it. If you deposit it, people will stop throwing it. If you don't have it, people will stop throwing it. If you don't have it, people will stop throwing it. If you don't have it, people will stop throwing it. If you don't have it, people will stop throwing it.
01:11:01
Speaker
Yeah. Due to contamination, the whole value chain goes down. Yeah, it can't be recycled. We say clean material area, property area, and we have built a whole QR code-based system platform where every botan will have a unique QR code, only QR code or standover collection system on the banadi platform. But collection, will it be like a vending machine kind of a thing? There are two brands. One is the reverse vending machines at some places.
01:11:27
Speaker
But in India, we have various running machines that we can use. And the production of the retailer based on the shops, they become production sector. And they get insectives for that. Okay, so we have a system in the state level that we have to deal with. But just to give you an idea, we have to deal with a lot of things in the state level. We have to deal with a lot of systems in the state level.
01:11:49
Speaker
Okay. So the first thing is if you buy a Coke bottle in Kedarnath, you will pay one rupees.
01:12:16
Speaker
We feel that 2 years down the line is innovation which we have done is going to be the game changer for us. So the DRS is the first big advantage that also is the right holy place of Kedarnath we have done and not made a video announcement yet. It will be a video announcement by June 1st week.
01:12:33
Speaker
But that is a game changer. Amazing. Okay. You said there were a couple of... We are also launching soon the carbon credit for all these activities which are doing with products on the sustainability platform. A lot of carbon credits we get generated through this system. So we are intending to launch a plastic and carbon credit platform, which can be used for offsetting purpose. And with the additionality proven. So there are multiple such innovations.
01:12:59
Speaker
So like a company which is able to like drive sustainability in the employees and then they are able to get a verified carbon credits and then they can sell this and get extra revenue. Absolutely. The employee also will get subject. The company is not looking for revenue for this because today's employees will get the trade. And they intend to increment my extra mortgage up to a bonus mortgage or up to extra. People will change their ad. Unless there is an incentive, people will not change that. True, true, very true.
01:13:29
Speaker
And thankfully today the world is all about ESG. Thankfully this will remain there.
01:13:34
Speaker
We have seen that every company in which we are working with EPR are now coming back to us to buy our care solutions. So now every company has an industry based on. So we have started the industry based division. So we helped them channelize the industry based responsibility. Since the difference, we never thought when we started with used and where we are today, I just wanted a degree, right? So completely evolved.
01:13:59
Speaker
You started initially with 1 million of your own funding. Tell me the right journey from then. So then Mr. Ajay Parekh, Deputy Director, he reached out to me on LinkedIn. He heard about us. We met and there is a fund called Triton, which is also my friend's fund. They are together putting $2 million. It's just an inbound item. Then circular capital invested. That's 2 million came when you launched the used app. 2019.
01:14:29
Speaker
Yes, the MBA was then at our cost. This is where you started collecting property. Then next year, Sartuya Capital invested to get others. Sartuya Capital is a fund and they were the strategic investment. Today, we invest on the plastic companies who are trying to solve plastic problems.
01:14:48
Speaker
and their LPs are on Unilever, Pepsi, Coke, other LPs. So, it was a strategic for us. I liked the team, their vision and everything. And then recently, $24 million for the moment's time re-engaged. That was just two and a half months back. That was a series A, you can call it as, for large series A.
01:15:07
Speaker
So, Morgan Stanley is not a name commonly heard in startup funding world. Yeah, I think you are absolutely right. So, they generally invest on infrastructure companies and West Management was their focus. So, they were looking for a West Management company for the last four or five years. Somehow, they are not finding the right match.
01:15:24
Speaker
And they found us, and we liked the team. So there's more digital infrastructure which we're building across the West Nairobi ecosystem. And I think they have a bit of vision, and they have partners. And other value they bring on the table in terms of connection.
01:15:40
Speaker
And I have done my, this is my 25th year of entrepreneurship. The funds brand name really doesn't matter and business matters or everything or whether it is XYZ or ABC business family.
01:15:57
Speaker
media attention, but I don't think that is something that's a great partner for us. And what are you using these funds for? The $24 billion?
Scaling Operations and New Verticals
01:16:04
Speaker
All with the team from 200 now, which I had read, we are scaling the operation, market years, AB for 5X groups this year in terms of GW, and big plans, creating new verticals, now we went into paper, started factories, tire sugar, so it was already
01:16:22
Speaker
And we are also investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are also investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper-no-frontal infrastructure. We are investing in hyper
01:16:50
Speaker
I mean, we are investing on that. So all those innovations, new things. That would be like Maruti Service Center. So there's an entrepreneur who runs the Maruti Service Center. Runs on Maruti's software, only services Maruti. That's where it is. Inter-Arabic, yeah, is invest. So to denote the model there.
01:17:11
Speaker
And it's a huge space, the sustainability platform itself is so big. Our aim is that at least there should be 20 million employees on our system in the next 18 months or so. So then there is a larger impact. When people are thinking about saving energy at home, then I have created. So that's the beauty of this business.
01:17:31
Speaker
This is startup for us purely, but then the impact aspect is very big. So that's the reason I call it as a startup with purpose. Although we are here to make money, we are here to really create value for everyone involved. And this is the space which we wanted to be. And because that impact aspect uses that extra happiness, you are doing some good work. And then at the end of the day, when you go home, not just making money, but you are also doing some good work for the society.
Profitability, Growth, and Future Plans
01:17:57
Speaker
And I'm guessing you must be operationally profitable, right? Because you don't have any customer acquisition costs. Normal startup is there. But last year we were profitable. This year also we were mostly profitable. So we're not borrowing. It's not a borrowing trade function. This year we're investing on infrastructure, we're investing on new categories, expansion. I think this is a business where profitability is not an issue. Any time we want to change gears, we can change the gears.
01:18:27
Speaker
Right now our focus is growth, so we're not really focusing on that. Profits are happening automatically, so that's another thing. But with the new teams coming in like Sustainability Platform, Carbon Credit Platform, all those things really, those products, DRS, that works.
01:18:43
Speaker
It can give us a new revenue stream. So currently, two revenue streams, marketplace and system meeting. These two, three revenue streams, new categories next year might be a different feature. I think 20-25, we're able to do a billion dollar GMV. Looks like possible, more than a billion dollar GMV. Are you also working with e-commerce companies for their exchange schemes? That's the plan now this year. We will be figuring out that model. Offline companies with other focus and e-commerce companies have sorted it.
01:19:11
Speaker
The Britain motor retailers are finding it difficult to run exchange programs. So we wanted to work with them. So you get a better power in an exchange program. Absolutely. You must have already sorted it. They don't might burn in also the mindset. I have been in covers for 24 years. So we are focusing on pre-con motor companies. So that product will be launching soon in
Conclusion and Call for Feedback
01:19:31
Speaker
that sector.
01:19:31
Speaker
Amazing. Amazing. Okay. Okay. And that brings us to the end of this amazing conversation. At this point of time, I'd like to make a request. I want to know what you think about the show and how we can improve it. Do you have suggestions? Do you want to discuss your startup ideas? Is there any way in which we can add more value to you as a disster? I love reading your emails and suggestions. Please write to me at ad at the podium.in. That's ad at the t h e podium p o d i u m dot in.