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ImmCon & Matthew Brown - Part 2
76 Plays25 days ago
We continue our inquiry into UFO whistleblower Matthew Brown.
UFOFocusPodcast@proton.me
Weaponized podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBVAxoHeaY&list=PLyyu-kB5uDRekzb1Og6AUeq84-AepM7p5
Outro: Starman (cover, David Bowie) by ODC
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Transcript
Introduction to Immaculate Constellation Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello. Welcome back to UFO Focus. I'm your host, Isaiah. And this is the second part of a little mini-series about ah the alleged program Immaculate Constellation and the self-described whistleblower Matthew Brown.
00:00:19
Speaker
So, ah If you haven't listened to the previous episode, the first part of this miniseries, you should probably do that first because this part will make a lot more sense.
Matthew Brown's Background and Claims
00:00:30
Speaker
Anyway, we're going to pick up right where we left off, which is Matthew Brown's story. So I'll just give a brief recap. A few weeks ago, journalists Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp came out with a an extended interview released in three parts thus far over three weeks um with a fellow named Matthew Brown, who is a former, let's see, let me get the description right.
00:01:03
Speaker
with Matthew Brown, who apparently served various national security roles in the Pentagon um and the Department of State, um and who is coming forward as a whistleblower claiming that during his time there he gained knowledge of a secret UFO program called Immaculate Constellation that is being illegally kept from Congress, he says.
Whistleblower Report and Motivations
00:01:31
Speaker
In the last episode, we talked a little bit about who Matthew Brown is. um We talked about this report that he wrote about ah the alleged Immaculate Constellation program that made its way to Congress, and which is available online, and I'll put a link in the show notes.
00:01:52
Speaker
Today, we are talking about Matthew Brown's story as he related to Korbel and Knapp in this extended interview. So the questions that we're sort of trying to answer today are Again, sort of who is Matthew Brown, not just his former titles, etc., but but who is he as a person?
00:02:13
Speaker
What is it he has to say, and why did he make what would seem to be a risky decision on his part to come forward as a whistleblower ah describing information that presumably is highly classified, I mean, that he himself says is um kept deeply secret within the Pentagon.
00:02:34
Speaker
And along the way, we're going to listen to a few short clips from the interview to get a sense of um what he has to say. So again, let's get to the core of this apple.
00:02:47
Speaker
And I the beg the court to let me cut into the apple. Thank you, Jimmy Stewart. Okay. Career path.
00:02:59
Speaker
Brown worked in various national security roles, including at the Pentagon and the Department of State. He had TSSCI clearance, if I have that right.
00:03:10
Speaker
I don't know what that means. He had some high level of clearance, high enough at least, that he was able to view stuff that is um classified at some level.
00:03:21
Speaker
I think that's sort of all we need to know for right now about that.
Discovery of Classified Information
00:03:25
Speaker
Okay. In 2018, while working at the Pentagon, he stumbled, well, he says that he stumbled upon um file in this database that he had access to and that I believe, but I i could be wrong, but it sounds like it either is the same database or is a similar database too.
00:03:50
Speaker
um The kind of database that has been described by other people who have come forward who worked, for example, for the UAP task force, which no longer exists. um But we've had various people come forward and say, yeah, i had access, you know, I had some security clearance and I had access to this database that contained UFO videos and stuff.
00:04:12
Speaker
um Okay, but he comes upon this particular file, and it has a weird name. It says it's like a war game or something. We can get into that later. He opens it up, and oh, here we go. It says ah it was called the 2018 Shriver War Game.
00:04:30
Speaker
I don't know what that means. so Okay, so inside this file, he finds a slideshow, or something, a briefing for a program called Immaculate Constellation.
00:04:42
Speaker
That's how he comes upon this thing. um Initially, he considered the possibility that this might be fake or it might be fictional scenario, like as per the file name War Game.
00:04:55
Speaker
um But as he continued his research, he came upon more information, including... um many videos and and other content of UAP doing weird things, amazing things, shocking things. and And we talked a little bit about that in the last episode. He describes ah the the kind of most famous thing he describes as a that was in this slideshow he saw. There was an image of like apparently a Russian vessel with a triangular craft hovering above it.
00:05:35
Speaker
And this was observed by secret U.S. intelligence, um That's one of the things. But he goes on to say he saw all manner of intriguing, amazing, astounding videos.
00:05:48
Speaker
um I think it's fair to say that he's putting these things together, this Immaculate Constellation program and this other content that he's seeing, and he's coming to the conclusion that um there's
00:06:04
Speaker
a lot of secret UFO, UAP stuff that's being kept from Congress.
Whistleblower Decision Process
00:06:09
Speaker
And I know that doesn't all necessarily fit together exactly. And I'll get into in the analysis. I'm going to get into that a bit because parts of sort of how he came to the conclusions he did um are not clear to me.
00:06:22
Speaker
Anyway, Okay, the next significant part of his story is that he decides to bring this forward to his superiors, what he has observed, so he says.
00:06:35
Speaker
um Let's listen to, here's a brief clip about him describing that decision. And while his language is a little confusing, I'm going to try to interpret what he's saying or clarify what he's saying um right after the clip.
00:06:49
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going through everything, all the options why it's not what it is. Right. Yeah. And so I do nothing um for some time. And then we are our office gets a training on like or refresh training. But this was new in my career. So my first time on what to do in cases of spillage for SAP material.
00:07:11
Speaker
And I realized, well, no matter how weird this is, this has all the hallmarks of what you guys just said is a big fucking deal. So, you know, I can either. Pretend like I didn't open and read this thing 80 times and hope that it doesn't notice that either or I can report it myself.
00:07:29
Speaker
ah So I did that or I tried to do that. All right. So it's a little, it he says it sort of fast, but the key word in there is is he uses this word spillage.
00:07:41
Speaker
And basically what he's saying is, so he was sitting around thinking about this thing that he saw. Then he receives a training on spillage of um special SAP, special access services.
00:07:55
Speaker
And what that means is he receives a training that basically says, here's what you're supposed to do if you believe that a secret, I'm sorry, special access program has, that there has been spillage. In other words, it's been revealed publicly.
00:08:12
Speaker
to some you know In some way that is improper, you're supposed to do something about it. That's the big effing deal he refers to. So he does. He takes it to a superior.
00:08:24
Speaker
um The superior is dismissive of it, kind of laughs it off. ah eventually he takes it to a second superior. The second superior is also dismissive of it.
00:08:37
Speaker
If you want details on that, you can listen to the full interview. But I think that gets to the point. Okay, so the next key part of the story is how he then goes from being someone reporting something internally, as he believes is you know the proper course of action, to becoming a whistleblower, someone who is breaking the chain of command,
00:08:58
Speaker
ah under the auspices of a greater duty to to the public, to Congress, <unk> etc. And what sort of changed his mind from from one to the other, he says, and I think this makes a lot of sense, frankly, is that in 2023, or at least in the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act, Congress established special protections for whistleblowers around UAP stuff.
00:09:32
Speaker
That happened. Now, the other thing that happens in 2023 is another whistleblower comes forward. That would be David Grush.
00:09:43
Speaker
Grush is spelled G-R-U-S-C-H. And if you don't know who David Grush is, he is, in my opinion, the most important whistleblower type figure in the UFO topic in the modern era. ah David Grush was a former intelligence officer who came forward in 2023 saying that um he His and own investigation had led him to conclude ah that there is ah secret reverse engineering program, reverse engineering non-human craft buried deep inside the government and or with the cooperation of private ah business or businesses, and
00:10:31
Speaker
um Huge bombshell. So first, you know, this whistleblower protection is passed. David Grush comes forward in part under that whistleblower protection regime.
00:10:42
Speaker
So um Matthew Brown sees all this happening. Let's see how he describes this moment of decision. you You wrote in a paper that was submitted to Congress, and we'll go to a lot of details in that, but that this was deeply disturbing overall. Why was it disturbing to you?
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah. So as time passed, it became disturbing, um especially ah after the sort of. um
00:11:13
Speaker
The process of Grush coming forward left awake on the inside, too. ah People were tracking that weren't even involved, but were able to see sort of the distortions on the inside.
00:11:24
Speaker
um Distortions of truth. Exactly. And but also, you know, bureaucracies and offices behaving weirdly. um ah around this subject and sort of the movements for reaching out to Congress, uh, to get legislation drafted, ah that eventually became that intelligence authorization act and that first NDAA, uh, where they provided whistleblower protections.
00:11:47
Speaker
Um, think that, that was one of the moments that really, ah started to convince me that this was, this was not, um,
00:12:02
Speaker
under under our our government's control. That's the core of why we're talking today. Yes. What do you mean? um Just on an emotional level ah and blunt analysis, why the hell is Congress passing a law asking for UFO insiders from the intelligence and military military community to come to talk to them directly under amnesty about something that doesn't exist, isn't an issue?
00:12:27
Speaker
um And if it is does exist and is an issue, but it's secret, Apparently, our most sensitive congressional committees are not briefed on this.
Public Disclosure and Consequences
00:12:38
Speaker
All right. So that at some point, Matthew Brown gets in touch with the media. Specifically, he goes and meets with this journalist or journalist.
00:12:51
Speaker
self-described journalist named ah Michael Schellenberger. ah I spent a good amount of time describing and or trashing ah Mr. Schellenberger in the last episode. I don't think he's a good journalist or a reputable journalist.
00:13:08
Speaker
It is weird to me that of all the journalists In the United States, there are many good ones. How Matthew Brown wound up talking to this Schellenberger guy, I don't know. It's a red flag to me. There's something weird about it, but he did.
00:13:25
Speaker
um Schellenberger writes this article saying that he has a secret source alleging the things that Matthew Brown is alleging. And it isn't until Corbell and Knapp come out with these in this interview a few weeks ago that we learn the identity of this secret source, Matthew Brown, and hear from him directly.
00:13:47
Speaker
In terms of his story, those are the basic elements. He also describes being um very afraid, and he does so very convincingly. He sounds afraid of retribution, of legal penalties, <unk> etc.,
00:14:03
Speaker
But the other part of his narrative, or at least the the interview he gives to Corbell and Knapp, well, I shouldn't say part. it It's many different parts. But if the key thing that Matthew Brown is whistleblowing on, blowing the whistle on, I guess we would say, right, is the existence of a secret program being kept hidden from Congress— Congress, and i think it's fair to say by extension, the American people.
00:14:37
Speaker
um He says a lot more than that in this interview. He describes at different times his perception, his belief of um what this secret sort of looks like, um not exactly who's behind it, but what the implications are, and as well as his personal motivations for taking this very risky step for himself.
00:15:11
Speaker
ah So I'm going to play, this is the longest clip I'm going to play from the interview. um And it's a little all over the place, but i I think it's important to listen to. So let's check this out.
Secrecy and Control Discussion
00:15:24
Speaker
Can you give us a general description of the size of the secrecy apparatus? You know, we're going to drill down into this, of course, about in income, i income um in ah one particular ah facet of the secrecy that you came across and other parts of it. But how big of a secrecy apparatus is it?
00:15:40
Speaker
How many stovepipes are there? How many people are involved in different ways of keeping this secret, confusing the public, lying to Congress, lying to the world? Simply put, as it's a parallel reality.
00:15:53
Speaker
um The secrecy apparatus is all pervasive. It is not just in the intelligence community governing their world. It's not just in the military protecting their operations. It's not protecting diplomats and leaders as they conduct their work, sometimes it's in very dangerous places.
00:16:13
Speaker
it has been allowed to corrupt and infest every aspect of our society ah to serve the interests and whims of a very elite select few.
00:16:25
Speaker
And it's been used to intimidate, threaten, destroy the lives of people like yourselves who have been doing their job, keeping their oaths, trying to protect their country, being true to humanity and and have paid praises for it.
00:16:39
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:16:43
Speaker
This has been um ah difficult process for you, um for me and you, you know kind of going through this. I've seen what you've gone through personally with this. um You're taking a a personal hit, like a ah painful risk, just talking to us, just doing this finally after all this time.
00:17:03
Speaker
I think I understand why. You're explaining something philosophical, what you believe about the secrecy, just personally, like... what What is the step for you to do this? Like why? i need to understand why.
00:17:16
Speaker
Why are you telling this yeah to everybody now? Now. There's no short answer. It's something, you know, I i have. Many, not even competing, but parallel motivations, but why now?
00:17:32
Speaker
ah
00:17:38
Speaker
Look out at the world. look inside our country, we are not headed to a good future. You're concerned. I am.
00:17:50
Speaker
Explain the concern. ah
00:17:56
Speaker
Ultimately, my biggest fear is what humanity will do to itself out of fear and greed and what we have done. And we have built a prison around ourselves. It's invisible, but it's not complete.
00:18:16
Speaker
And there is still time to maybe alter our trajectory, have a different future, may not be the best one that we had hoped for, but it's going to be damn sight better than what they have planned for us. You know, there's no going back after you tell us this on camera. We have this conversation. There's this is it. This is the line in the sand. You're about to cross over here.
00:18:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I am ah on a personal level giving up the future that I made for myself and was going to try to make for a family. um
00:18:52
Speaker
I'm proud of what I accomplished in my time in government. And it's painful to leave the good people there and to know that, uh... There really isn't room for people to act according to their conscience and our constitutional ideals is on the inside.
00:19:13
Speaker
Is it your ah belief based on materials, things that you've been exposed to, that you've seen, people you've talked to and communicated with over a period of a couple of years, is your belief that this, the technology, the race for the technology, the understanding of the big secret,
00:19:28
Speaker
is entirely in the hands of people outside the government and not for the benefit of the public or to protect American national security. It's it's in some other realm, in some other hands.
00:19:40
Speaker
think a mix. um I think our military has a long historic involvement in this. So does our intelligence community and our scientific academic community.
00:19:51
Speaker
but We have, as a country, allowed ourselves to be penetrated, co-opted, and corrupted by an internationalist
00:20:02
Speaker
force that serves their interests and views nations, peoples as as tools and means to an end. like a business cabal, international corporations that have no loyalty to any nation, let alone this one.
00:20:17
Speaker
That's a large part of it I think ah we go have to go above that, too, to start to explain the degree of the level of deception and the level of commitment they've had to maintaining that deception. It's above just monetary gain and power.
00:20:35
Speaker
They're afraid.
Conclusion and Next Steps
00:20:37
Speaker
Now, there are any number of questions that that one can ask, especially about that last part. Who is they?
00:20:45
Speaker
How did he come by this knowledge of them in this kind of vast conspiracy? um What does he mean when he says, ah you know, humanity is on the wrong course? I mean, you know, it's the kind of thing where I think you say that and and in in any room with pretty much any audience, and everyone will nod, but they'll be nodding for different reasons, right? people Everyone thinks humanity's on the wrong course pretty much, but we don't agree on why um or in what ways.
00:21:19
Speaker
I have a lot of questions about Matthew Brown's testimony. I'm i'm using the word testimony colloquially, his his interview, what he said in the interview. And that's going to be the subject of my next and final ah episode on this, which will be released very shortly so we can move on.
00:21:37
Speaker
But um the next episode, we're going to analyze all of this and I'm going to offer you some thoughts about the significance of this testimony, the significance of what Matthew Brown has to say, and where he seems credible and maybe where... um he lacks credibility, which is not to say that I think he's lying or attempting to mislead. I i don't. I personally find him to be convincing.
00:22:09
Speaker
i I think he's telling the truth as he understands it, but I'm not convinced that we should be treating him as a credible witness to everything he's saying. So, more on that next time.
00:22:21
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in again. I'm really glad to be back. um Please share the podcast if you can. I lost like half my audience because I took a hiatus for the birth of my daughter. And then Apple, I think, like stopped updating the podcast. So like there went half of my listeners.
00:22:38
Speaker
um And I would like to get more listeners, get those listeners back and get more, um because that will certainly help keep me motivated to do it. ah Please drop me a line. My email address is ufofocuspodcast at proton.me.
00:22:54
Speaker
And I've been saying this every episode. No one's taken me up on it yet, but... I would love to hear your personal UFO sightings, encounters, etc. I think it's important to always ground ourselves in sort of the lived reality of of um people who have seen inexplicable things. And there are lots of such people. And ah some of them are ah former Pentagon insiders and amazing Navy pilots and such.
00:23:25
Speaker
But Many of them are just regular folks like us. So um I want to hear your stories. Anyway, thanks for tuning in. I'll have a new episode out soon.
00:23:38
Speaker
Take care.
00:23:52
Speaker
Didn't know what time it was and lights were low I leaned back on my radio Some cat was laying down Some rock and roll, other some say
00:24:10
Speaker
Then the loud sound did seem to fade Came back like a slow voice on a wave of fade There were no DJ that was hazy cosmic jade There's a starly man waiting in the sky He'd like to come and meet us But he thinks it will lower minds
00:24:43
Speaker
He told us not to blow it, cause he knows it's all about why he told me. Let the children lose it, let the children lose it, let all the children lose it.