Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: This is episode 145.
Speaker: It's a brand new day.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain, as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And Scott, it's a wonderful day.
Speaker: It's new pinball day, right?
Speaker: Okay, this is like one of those things where it's quiet, quiet, quiet.
Speaker: And then, hey, let's hit you with an avalanche.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And the response to this game has been insane.
Speaker: We're obviously talking about X-Men.
Speaker: We could also be talking about Avatar.
Speaker: We got two.
Speaker: We got two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so if you're going to buy that game, you know, the best place to buy it from is flipping out pinball from Zach and Nicole Minney with Greg Bone as the tech support.
Speaker: They will get you taken care of.
Speaker: And when you buy a product, I know you're buying a pinball machine, but honestly, you want great customer service to back that product.
Speaker: Because in a perfect world, we wouldn't need to fix these machines, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Speaker: And Zach and Nicole and Greg will get you taken care of from all the way from diagnosis, all the way up to getting your part repaired and replaced all under warranty.
Speaker: They do fantastic work.
Speaker: And I mean, the haggis situation should give you an idea of how much their word means to their customers.
Speaker: So check them out, flippingoutpinball.com.
Speaker: Get your X-Men, get your avatar through them.
Speaker: Right, Scott?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay, so what do you want to talk about first?
Speaker: I would argue let's talk about Avatar because it's just a teaser.
Speaker: So right now, we basically know that Avatar is the theme that Jersey Jack is going to be pushing.
Speaker: And we have little snippets of this.
Speaker: Yeah, but...
Speaker: Yeah, but we have less information on that.
Speaker: And I want to do a deeper dive on Avatar when the game is revealed in probably two weeks or so.
Speaker: Before you do that, though, I want to I want to hurry and give us a plug.
Speaker: We're both wearing our hockey jerseys.
Speaker: Yeah, you're wearing the black one.
Speaker: I'm wearing the white one.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: These things are comfortable.
Speaker: They're nice and big.
Speaker: Dude, I'm loving this.
Speaker: Like you could wear a hoodie under.
Speaker: I got extra large.
Speaker: It's very baggy.
Speaker: You could put a hoodie underneath this.
Speaker: Stay warm.
Speaker: I will also point out.
Speaker: I was concerned because a lot of times when you get a hockey sweater, they're called sweaters.
Speaker: But they tend to be really thick and really heavy and warm.
Speaker: These are light.
Speaker: And I do like that where it feels like, you know, when you go to the pinball shows and you're wearing things around, I tend to get really hot because all the games and everything like that.
Speaker: This is very cool, very comfortable.
Speaker: And yes, it is baggy like a hockey sweater is.
Speaker: So it looks great.
Speaker: And I love both of the styles.
Speaker: I have your style too.
Speaker: I just didn't wear it tonight.
Speaker: Yeah, I've got the other one as well.
Speaker: I got the wrong size, but they're getting it taken care of.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: But yeah, and I think we got one for Keith.
Speaker: Ellen's going to be going out soon.
Speaker: And Shane told – he didn't get a hockey jersey.
Speaker: He got a loser kid of tax, sure.
Speaker: But man – Hey, both good.
Speaker: Both good.
Speaker: Yeah, great.
Speaker: Great stuff.
Speaker: If you want to check that out, silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: So let's talk Avatar.
Speaker: Battle for Pandora.
Speaker: Really, we don't have a ton to go off.
Speaker: It's been teased for like a week now with leaked, if you can't see me, if you're not watching, using air quotes, leaked photos.
Speaker: What do you think of this approach?
Speaker: You know, Kay, actually...
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: How can I put this?
Speaker: This is something that has been done, right?
Speaker: And this is what tends to be the go-to way.
Speaker: And it actually does work out a little better at teasing something, getting people to talk about it.
Speaker: And it does build momentum because what happens is, and I still remember back when I first got into pinball, there was just a random, Hey, here's Mustang.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And everyone in the case, this was before podcasting became a huge thing before the little fan forums and everything, but it felt like, Oh, Mustang and Oh, that's okay.
Speaker: I I've seen it.
Speaker: And it, it really didn't move.
Speaker: And I know Mustang is not a huge theme unless you're a Mustang fan.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it did, it did help out.
Speaker: You know, I just realized everything's so dark just a minute.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so we have new cameras and so we're getting used to the new equipment.
Speaker: But this is a good way of people talking about it.
Speaker: I know that
Speaker: with the internet and all the interesting thing, the, the negative things that the internet can bring, but also the positive things in that you can find these niche forums in these fan areas.
Speaker: We can talk about these things.
Speaker: And this is one thing that is super beneficial about having it released now, as opposed to 10 years ago, because people start talking.
Speaker: I was like, Oh, what do you think about this?
Speaker: What do you think about the theme?
Speaker: What do you think about what's going on?
Speaker: And it does give you a little bit of a sense.
Speaker: Here's what's your thought.
Speaker: Here's my concern.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Avatar, I don't mind.
Speaker: Like I've seen the movie.
Speaker: I've seen the first one.
Speaker: I haven't seen the second one, but I think you and I had a discussion about this and I actually did some research and, and Avatar holds the record for like most money made for a movie, right?
Speaker: It's over like $3 billion.
Speaker: It's ridiculous for the first movie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Franchise or now is it still like the highest money making movie?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So it was any game and game beat it in the States, but I have a target or worldwide.
Speaker: So what happened was is end game beat it.
Speaker: And then they re-released the first one long enough to beat the record.
Speaker: I see.
Speaker: So avatar still is number one.
Speaker: And that's not including, I know the second movie did over a billion dollars as well.
Speaker: Like it did really, really well post pandemic.
Speaker: Yeah, we're talking four billion dollars.
Speaker: OK, let's let's conservative three billion dollars.
Speaker: A lot of money for a franchise.
Speaker: A lot of money.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, it took Marvel like 23 movies to start.
Speaker: Well, it took probably about 15 movies before it started getting in the billions.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: OK, so we have this movie that's made billions of dollars.
Speaker: When was the last time you saw someone wearing an avatar shirt?
Speaker: When was the last time you saw someone sporting avatar gear?
Speaker: And I did the research.
Speaker: And I don't, if this is like true, it kind of scares me.
Speaker: But the number of the figure I could find online was avatars made $153 million.
Speaker: on gross profit from merchandise.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Any idea how much Star Wars has made?
Speaker: That's nothing.
Speaker: That's nothing compared to the movie.
Speaker: Exactly what I just said.
Speaker: Any idea how much Star Wars has made?
Speaker: Millions or billions.
Speaker: Literally George Lucas financed.
Speaker: He leveraged Empire Strikes Back based on selling toys.
Speaker: Makes sense.
Speaker: He, uh, this was way before they knew merchandising was going to be a thing.
Speaker: And certainly it's a lucky bet on his, uh, on his standpoint, but he got all the merchandising options from star Wars.
Speaker: Dang.
Speaker: Lucky.
Speaker: And don't want to make any more movies.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So he got all the merchandising from that.
Speaker: And I, I am the star Wars generation.
Speaker: Star Wars came out when I was four.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so like this, this was the thing for at least seven years.
Speaker: Everybody had a billion star Wars toys.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So he was able to leverage that to finance the,
Speaker: I don't know if he financed the whole thing of Empire Strikes Back or financed the greatest deal.
Speaker: So that's why he got so much creative license to do what he did for Empire Strikes Back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now, I know different times, right?
Speaker: Okay, the Star Wars was 1970.
Speaker: 79 was Empire Strikes Back.
Speaker: 77 was the original.
Speaker: Yeah, 77.
Speaker: So when you look at that versus now, you know, so when did the original Avatar come out?
Speaker: Like 2010?
Speaker: Nine, eight, something like that.
Speaker: Because I know they've already done a game, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So they've already done a game, 2009.
Speaker: So it's been out there for a while.
Speaker: However, I don't know of something that has the same cultural impact that, you know, and I know Star Wars, it's not totally fair because we're talking almost 50 years for Star Wars.
Speaker: So it is a different time, different world, literally a different world with the interconnectivity of the internet and different ways people can get things.
Speaker: But is it possible to have the same sort of cultural impact that maybe a star Wars did?
Speaker: And maybe that's unfair.
Speaker: I, Hey, we are, we're going to be talking about Marvel right now.
Speaker: So let's talk about does now Marvel had like 23 movies.
Speaker: And that's a problem though, too, because you bring that up, but Marvel's been around since the fifties, 50, 60s.
Speaker: It has, but really the, the original X-Men,
Speaker: Actually, yeah.
Speaker: The uncanny.
Speaker: But before we transition to this, what have you thought so far of just the teaser stuff?
Speaker: Because we got a full teaser trailer today.
Speaker: I was mainly talking about just the type of merchant or the type of
Speaker: Theme impact, I guess.
Speaker: So now you're going from a comic book that I read as a kid, too, by the way, the whole teaser that George Gomez talked about.
Speaker: That was me.
Speaker: Like I read I was huge into comic books in the 80s and 90s.
Speaker: And read this story.
Speaker: This is a great story.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: So this is a perfect one to take.
Speaker: Now I'm glad he actually told us what the story was because I, even though I had read it, I had actually forgotten exactly where the sentinels came in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's good to remind people because a lot of people now are only connected to the X-Men either through the X-Men 96 or they're connected to the cartoon version or they're connected to the movies.
Speaker: So this is a little different, but there's so much storyline.
Speaker: I'm glad he went through that.
Speaker: Now, okay, going back to Avatar, because we are talking about Avatar.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Avatar has two movies.
Speaker: They're big movies.
Speaker: Everybody saw them.
Speaker: But you're not giving the same sort of cultural impact.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you have the first movie, which really, if you look at it from an analytical lens, was kind of a, hey, what?
Speaker: These military people come into a foreign area and try to take resources or dominate them or what have you.
Speaker: It was very political at the time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because the, you know, the U S was involved in the, you know, the Iraq war.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there were certainly some of that.
Speaker: With the second one, you're kidding.
Speaker: It's a little different in that.
Speaker: Go with me on this.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I haven't seen it.
Speaker: So you're, this is all new to me.
Speaker: Go for it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The second one was Star Trek four and Titanic had a baby.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Because the second one is, Hey, there's these big mammal things that they're trying to wait, wait for it, kill and extract a small amount of essence so they can sell it for a lot of money.
Speaker: Sounds a lot like the first one that you think, but now we are taking it to a new level of, Hey, we're doing an environmental theme where now we're killing a, you know, a being for it.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: The thing is it's a sentient being because they have a connection with the Navi.
Speaker: So you have those two that are do it now visually.
Speaker: It's pretty amazing.
Speaker: It's awesome to see it in person.
Speaker: And if you go to Disney world, there is the world of Pandora.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is, is really cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, especially if you go at night because it's all lit up.
Speaker: But you are right in that I don't know of any kid that has any Avatar toys or any Avatar themed stuff in their room.
Speaker: I would argue that Bluey has more cultural impact than Avatar.
Speaker: Okay, but you're not going to make a Bluey pinball.
Speaker: Okay, you shouldn't.
Speaker: Okay, you shouldn't make a Bluey pinball.
Speaker: Shouldn't we?
Speaker: Yes, we shouldn't.
Speaker: I want to put it to a poll.
Speaker: Bluey versus Avatar.
Speaker: Okay, Avatar is a better one.
Speaker: I, I, I, I still looks cool.
Speaker: Avatar is still great.
Speaker: Um, and I do like that the huge plus they have a lot of assets that they can integrate.
Speaker: And the one thing that we know that Jersey Jack is excellent at King at is the immersion factor of their games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you think about Hobbit, what did Hobbit have over Lord of the rings?
Speaker: Definitely assets.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: You have the feeling that you were actually in the movie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wizard of Oz, same thing.
Speaker: And you have Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: Again, the most immersive experience in a pinball machine is the Guns N' Roses machine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You feel like you're at a concert.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so this is actually...
Speaker: I would argue this is still a great theme for pinball.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's it.
Speaker: I wouldn't put it as the most impressive theme because we've all talked about the wishlist.
Speaker: And I guarantee the wish list that, you know, people always talk about, okay, the dad rock ones.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's do that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's do Harry Potter.
Speaker: Let's do that.
Speaker: Let's do, you know, other things, movies, you know, top movies.
Speaker: So a lot of people didn't really have avatar as their list, but what is the downside of doing an avatar?
Speaker: What's the downside?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think it lands in that category of Godzilla and even X-Men.
Speaker: It's maybe a meh theme, but it has plenty of room to awe if the play field is done right or the...
Speaker: And so I think there's a lot of wiggle room there.
Speaker: And I think we're going to start seeing more of this.
Speaker: So this isn't like, my understanding, this isn't Avatar specifically on the movies.
Speaker: It's just kind of an own standalone game, The Battle at Pandora, which is similar to Godzilla.
Speaker: We're starting to see more and more and more of this where they're making their own storylines for these pinball machines instead of trying to follow, like, take Star Trek, for example.
Speaker: It kind of, the missions were solely based on movie scenes from the three movies or the two movies.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Yeah, I think overall, I don't know.
Speaker: We'll see this next week.
Speaker: It's next Thursday, and we might even get our hands on it even just as soon, right?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: So we'll keep you in the loop on that one.
Speaker: So overall, it sounds like you think it's a decent theme, and kind of let's wait and see what the – because we've seen, like, what, three or four shots at the play field between the flippers –
Speaker: The weird through the playfield looking thing in the middle.
Speaker: The sinkhole.
Speaker: And then what else was there?
Speaker: The locks in the playfield.
Speaker: But it did look like, okay, maybe I'm wrong, but on the quick teaser they did today, did it look like a
Speaker: like a clear play field with an under play field.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's what it looked like to me.
Speaker: So that, that could be really cool.
Speaker: Yeah, it could.
Speaker: Because with the nice thing about play fields is for the most part, look at any play field.
Speaker: And if you take a pizza and slap it on the center of, of a play field, yeah, that whole area typically is empty.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it has art.
Speaker: It has inserts.
Speaker: It has stuff like that.
Speaker: But if you leverage that and make it clear and do almost like a crawl under, like an under play field experience, that could be really interesting.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: And that's total speculation, but that's what it seemed like to me, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: let's talk about something we have seen.
Speaker: So X-Men is officially revealed.
Speaker: So it's X-Men, but are they calling it Days of Futures Pass?
Speaker: It's just called X-Men, right?
Speaker: Uncanny X-Men.
Speaker: Uncanny X-Men.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Uncanny X-Men has now revealed.
Speaker: We know.
Speaker: So, okay, I'm going to give this preference before we get going on this.
Speaker: Scott, someone told us
Speaker: a week or two ago about the offset flippers.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, or hinted at it or hinted at it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: So I've actually been kind of in a panic for this release.
Speaker: And at me, that's not the right word, but like,
Speaker: Really, the last time offset flippers have been done was probably Gold Wings back in 86.
Speaker: That's before I was born.
Speaker: So it's one of those things where it's like, it hasn't been done in 40 years, or almost 40 years.
Speaker: Was it a good concept back then?
Speaker: Is it a good concept now?
Speaker: So it's like, well, crap.
Speaker: Is this like...
Speaker: we're just throwing crap throwing pickles at the wall to see what slides down i don't know so i was really concerned about seeing this reveal today uh just because like i had no clue what we were going to see and so i don't know how are you feeling going into it scott
Speaker: And I'm a little kind of distracted by sliding pickles on the wall.
Speaker: I'm trying to figure that out.
Speaker: Trying to think.
Speaker: It's Billy Madison.
Speaker: You remember when they're doing the pickle races?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was just thinking of Steve was at me where he calls and apologizes and he's like, Oh, well, thanks.
Speaker: He crosses his name off the people that I'm going to kill.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The, when I heard offset flippers, what I, and I envisioned was, um,
Speaker: flippers that weren't aligned.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So like a, a flipper that would be, you know, I I'm, I'm doing my hands, but not like, you know, more like this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One's higher than the other.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So the right side, like an inch higher than the other, which I thought would be a horrible idea.
Speaker: Well, they did it with super Mario brothers.
Speaker: It wasn't too far off, but then you need to have outlanes.
Speaker: And that's a horrible game.
Speaker: That's why people only want it for the theme.
Speaker: It's terrible.
Speaker: It's not that terrible.
Speaker: I would own a Super Mario Brothers.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: Five bucks.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Maybe a little bit more, but still.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But, okay.
Speaker: Guess what?
Speaker: Have you looked closely at Rush?
Speaker: Uh, not lately, but I think we've had this discussion about it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: If you, if you actually look at it, the, the, the shots are mainly to the right of center and the flippers are left of center.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so it is already positioned to the side.
Speaker: If you, so if you look at X-Men, um,
Speaker: Really, it's almost like a smaller play field that has some extra stuff.
Speaker: You can really box this out and almost make a standard type play field.
Speaker: Yes, he has shortened it a little bit because if you look at where the flippers typically are, they're up a few centimeters.
Speaker: And so that does make a difference.
Speaker: However, it looks...
Speaker: It looked good.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It looks real good.
Speaker: It looked really good.
Speaker: And I was, I was concerned because you never know what someone's going to do with their sophomore release.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You look at now, I always said what Jack did with the home version of Jurassic park was impressive.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Considering a small budget, it wasn't the same full featured as the cornerstone never was intended to be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it's fun.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: Very safe.
Speaker: It's a safe game.
Speaker: It's a fun game.
Speaker: With Foo Fighters, took some risks, kind of borrowed some elements that worked in other games, meshed them together, made his own version of it.
Speaker: And Foo Fighters is a solid game.
Speaker: Yeah, I own it.
Speaker: I enjoy it.
Speaker: It's a good game.
Speaker: It's a solid game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it would have been safer for him to go with a standard approach.
Speaker: The fact that he felt, you know, Jack's always said, we want to make pinball weird again, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Bring back the odd stuff.
Speaker: Bring back the 80s, apparently.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I look at this and I'm thinking, dang, this looks a lot of fun.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It really does.
Speaker: Like when I first saw it, I'm like, huh, I'm trying to figure that out.
Speaker: And especially the entrance to the danger room, the danger room almost seems like an upper play field that is hidden away in the lower left corner.
Speaker: So it's almost a disguised upper play field.
Speaker: That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So, so when I see this, it makes me think that gold wings had a baby with radical between the ball pass, like radical and that, that lower bottom line gold wings.
Speaker: you're doing interesting stuff, just zipping around the play field.
Speaker: Some of these shots, I had to watch this multiple times to be like, what happened there?
Speaker: Wait, rewind it 10 seconds.
Speaker: I still don't understand that.
Speaker: Rewind it 10 seconds.
Speaker: I went from like anxiety, panic, whatever it is, whatever you want to be like, here's my, here's my problem.
Speaker: Like pinball has been, I'm,
Speaker: I don't want to say on like a downhill slope.
Speaker: Maybe it has been.
Speaker: It has been for a couple of years now.
Speaker: Let's be honest.
Speaker: things have felt a little stale.
Speaker: And so when you hear a risk being taken where it's offset flippers, it's not very traditional what they're doing, you're messing with the Italian bottom, which really hasn't been done in the last 40 years.
Speaker: It makes you like, well, crap, like, are we just, are we just trying stuff now?
Speaker: And then this comes out and you're like, oh, this feels new and unique, but yet familiar because it takes some elements from games that do well, that do great.
Speaker: And so I,
Speaker: I just, I want to flip this game.
Speaker: This game looks so insanely cool to play.
Speaker: And it just, the one thing is, is I don't know.
Speaker: I don't, I'm jumping all over the place because I'm like, I'm thinking of the Sentinel head and I'm like, the Sentinel head's really cool.
Speaker: And, and it's ball pass behind the head instead of just, I thought it was like you bash the head and then like, it's just space behind the head, right?
Speaker: Kind of like on Circus Voltaire, which has been mentioned back and forth with this.
Speaker: But there's actual ball paths around the head.
Speaker: Like it goes up to ramps and it goes places instead of just like you're hitting a head and then there might be something back there.
Speaker: No, there is actual purpose to it.
Speaker: So there is just this is so unique and so different.
Speaker: I think people, we've had nothing but positive.
Speaker: So we posted this on all the socials today and I've had a hard time keeping up.
Speaker: We have been bombarded with comments.
Speaker: I was working, so I'm glad you were able to do it.
Speaker: But it was interesting seeing, you know, when I had breaks and I could look at it, seeing how actually this sparked more interaction than any other time that we posted saying, what do you think of this?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And all the reactions are pretty much the same.
Speaker: It was X-Men's, okay.
Speaker: It's something we recognize, but it's not a theme we're dying for.
Speaker: Zombie arts, awesome art, but we've kind of seen it before.
Speaker: So what are we getting from Jack Danger?
Speaker: And everyone has just been like, holy crap, this looks absolutely insane to play.
Speaker: The concern is, if you've ever played Gold Wings, it'll kick your butt.
Speaker: The offset flippers are...
Speaker: Can be a little mean.
Speaker: It doesn't look like a simple game, but you know what?
Speaker: You can have a simple, uh, a, uh, an Italian bottom layout.
Speaker: That's super mean too.
Speaker: I can think of a few board games that, that qualify.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I want to, I want to play this game.
Speaker: I can't wait for expo.
Speaker: I like pinball.
Speaker: Let's do this.
Speaker: Let's, is it October already?
Speaker: Can we go like now?
Speaker: Yeah, it looks great.
Speaker: The,
Speaker: You know, it's, as we said, I think the theme qualifies in the recognizable but solidly B theme.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Like, it is definitely better than...
Speaker: venom okay which is funny because like x-men was considered like a top tier license at one point in time right i mean it's kind of what helped propel marvel into the movie era like yeah they say blade is what started it but then like the x-men movies came right out after no it was it was the x-men movies and spider-man yep like like x you know the toby mcguire spider-man
Speaker: And the Bryan Singer X-Men movies that showed, hey, the technology is here.
Speaker: Like we can make a really good version of a comic book movie.
Speaker: And really the Avengers were never considered as popular as the X-Men.
Speaker: It was the X-Men all the way, but because they sold the X-Men rights for actually cheap to Fox,
Speaker: And they basically said, well, let's do the Avengers then.
Speaker: And that was pretty much what they did.
Speaker: Now they made the Avengers, the 18 after like all their, all their stories.
Speaker: But really the X-Men is, it's still a great theme, but if you know what I mean by saying it's a solidly B theme, I'm just saying that it is recognizable.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: A themes.
Speaker: What are a themes?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Harry Potter.
Speaker: Harry Potter.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Harry Potter.
Speaker: Star Wars.
Speaker: Star Wars.
Speaker: A theme.
Speaker: You know, Godzilla is a C theme.
Speaker: I've said it.
Speaker: Godzilla is a C theme.
Speaker: Jurassic Park.
Speaker: People need a C theme.
Speaker: People need to realize like we're not like ranking these themes.
Speaker: We're just going based off of like marketability.
Speaker: If you took, yeah, the top 25 franchises of all time, Harry Potter's up there.
Speaker: Star Wars is up there.
Speaker: Pokemon's up there.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, some of these might.
Speaker: Hello Kitty's up there.
Speaker: Yeah, that might not translate great to pinball.
Speaker: But what we're saying is, is if you go based off of the money and the gross profit, right?
Speaker: There's obviously themes that make more money than others.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Marvel's up there.
Speaker: So that's all I'm saying is that from, from the X-Men standpoint, it's, it's a little, you know, it's a smaller, it caters to a smaller audience.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That now, that being said, integrating this type of story and these shots is,
Speaker: This is, this goes in the face of, you know, back on the good old head to head days with Ryan and Marty.
Speaker: I still remember something that Marty said that everybody talks about, I want different, I want different, but not that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But not that.
Speaker: He always said that, right?
Speaker: I would say this qualifies as I want different.
Speaker: I want different.
Speaker: I want that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause it looks really good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What do you think about the entrance to the, the, the danger room?
Speaker: Cause that seems quite interesting.
Speaker: So it's, I think it's very interesting.
Speaker: So if you're following along with us, you can go to stern pinball.com and look at the new X-Men game there.
Speaker: But the way to get into, so the danger room, what Scott's talking about is that left,
Speaker: of center.
Speaker: It's that we're calling it kind of like a mini play field, but it's just that little mini flipper on the left side.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's like where the balloon shot is in a wizard of Oz.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it's similar to kind of the Foo Fighters upper play field.
Speaker: You've got a spinner shot and you've got a ramp out.
Speaker: That ramp out brings you right to the left flipper with what's called Cerebro Ball Lock, which is, I assume, like a magnetic ball lock, which stops it right above the flipper to give you some time to breathe.
Speaker: Then it's going to drop it to your flipper so you can shoot.
Speaker: But to get into the danger room, if I remember correctly, it's on this right side, kind of over where the ball, the shooter lane is.
Speaker: You've got to shoot.
Speaker: kind of up into this area around that pop bumper.
Speaker: The pop bumper's in the same place as it is on Godzilla, similarly, or Jaws.
Speaker: So you're shooting that, and it drops you down into this danger room,
Speaker: My question is, is it, so it says it's high risk.
Speaker: So how I saw it is this is a shot that you shoot.
Speaker: This seems like the Katana shot to me, like a similar version.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Like it seems like you shoot left to go over the storm decal.
Speaker: There's a quick hyper flex ramp ball path that takes you across the play field and
Speaker: And then drops you down.
Speaker: So you're hitting the shot with velocity.
Speaker: Oh, you're correct.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I know what you're talking about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it hits your shot with velocity and therefore there is enough momentum to swing it around below the flipper, like the, uh, the hyper loop shot or, you know, the, the, the, um, whatever the, the hyper drive shot in star Wars or the hyperspace one.
Speaker: but it brings you with a velocity and it takes you up and then drops you onto the left flipper.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now there's danger because you go into that left flipper and if you do not shoot out of there, you're drained.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Like that's the only, and, and there's only one flipper there.
Speaker: There's not two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's,
Speaker: It's a mini flipper too.
Speaker: Jack has marketed it as high risk, high reward.
Speaker: So I wonder, is that area, like, here's the problem.
Speaker: So if it is a tournament, if you put on your tournament cap, if this is really high points, what's not stopping you from just milking that area?
Speaker: But then again, if it really is as high risk as he's saying, you might not want to be in that area.
Speaker: Well, isn't that the point of the decoder though?
Speaker: The secret sauce of the coder is to be able to find, okay, where is the score balancing?
Speaker: Which is Wason.
Speaker: Yeah, Wason Chang.
Speaker: And what else has Wason done?
Speaker: Was it WWE?
Speaker: And we looked this up before, crap.
Speaker: We did.
Speaker: But yeah, that's why I asked you because I forgot.
Speaker: Son of a gun.
Speaker: I got put on the spot.
Speaker: I shouldn't come back later for it.
Speaker: Hold, please.
Speaker: Hold, please.
Speaker: WWE.
Speaker: Let me, I'm, I'm, I'm pin citing this right now.
Speaker: We were doing this live.
Speaker: We'll do it live.
Speaker: Live, baby.
Speaker: Um, uh, Ways and Chang.
Speaker: So yeah, so Lonnie Ropp, Ways and Chang.
Speaker: So Ways and did the, the software on Jurassic park home edition, right?
Speaker: He did heavy metal monsters pro.
Speaker: So the monster stuff, he worked on Deadpool.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Yeah, so I mean, these are solid games.
Speaker: So it looks like Ways and Works in tandem.
Speaker: So it looks like probably Home Edition was his first, which that's a solid code set.
Speaker: I mean, it's a little more bare, but then it gets a Home Edition, so you can't really expect much from it.
Speaker: Same with Heavy Metal.
Speaker: And Munsters was more of Dwight
Speaker: So I wonder if we since get Munsters is okay.
Speaker: I, I've always said I give Munsters a pass because we kept saying, Hey, the games are too hard.
Speaker: And they're like, okay, here's this.
Speaker: And they're like, again, this is the, Hey, we want different, but not that.
Speaker: Uh, yeah, the, the rules were a little too stripped down.
Speaker: So, you know, it's the Goldilocks zone trying to find the sweet spot.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I saw a joke the other day where Baby Bear was asking, Daddy Bear's like, someone's been in my bed.
Speaker: And Mommy's like, someone's been in my bed.
Speaker: And then Baby Bear's like, how long have you two been sleeping in separate beds?
Speaker: And it's like this whole touching video.
Speaker: Let's move on.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Waston Chang's on code.
Speaker: Here's the thing.
Speaker: What's the first couple things that popped out to you when you started watching this trailer besides it's hard to keep up?
Speaker: Uh, it just looked like there's a lot of ball movement.
Speaker: He makes it look really smooth.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: However, it, it still looks a little bit like a breakfast if you're not nailing the shots.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and that's, that's kind of how Deadpool is too.
Speaker: Well, the other thing too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Deadpool is really hard if you don't nail those shots.
Speaker: The first thing that popped out to me was like the literal Sentinel between the head and the hands.
Speaker: It looks good.
Speaker: And it looks way good.
Speaker: I find it interesting that like the Sentinel like literally gives you the finger to stop the ball.
Speaker: I think it's really cool that the hand comes down and smashes the wire form, the actual wire form.
Speaker: Does it do that on the pro as well?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And the hands aren't really like the hands don't articulate on the pro.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I don't even think they're in it on the pro.
Speaker: Like, so the right one is right.
Speaker: Left one looks like a, it's like an art thing with the, with the right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So someone pinpoint out, I think this is all ramps.
Speaker: There's no orbits.
Speaker: And I think they're right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I don't fully understand the beast layer.
Speaker: The very target.
Speaker: Yeah, very target captive ball thing.
Speaker: Do you just hit the target below and it becomes more like?
Speaker: Again, this is the magical world of pinball where you're borrowing and integrating from other people, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and so this is where you have, it looks a little bit like a repurposing of venom.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Kind of, huh?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was kind of thinking the same thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Where venom has the carnage target and he's going back to, I can't remember what the sanctuary shot is, but this is almost using those, those hyper, the ball, the hyper ball feeds that are on the wire forms.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But he's using it in a different way where you're shooting up to it and then hitting the very target.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the one thing that really stuck out to me too is that crazy eight ramp, which I don't think is on the pro, but it is on the premium LE where you shoot it and it curves around, but then it goes through another ramp and curves back around.
Speaker: That's insane.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: That's making the ball doing interesting things.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, there's one thing that bugs me, and maybe it's just me.
Speaker: I didn't do the research.
Speaker: Okay, I've done some research.
Speaker: I'm not going to lie.
Speaker: This last weekend I had COVID, and we were already planning on going camping.
Speaker: We already had the trailer up the mountain and everything.
Speaker: So my wife's like, why don't you just stay home away from the rest of us, and we'll go camping.
Speaker: And I was like, sure.
Speaker: So I had a lot of time on my hands this weekend.
Speaker: I streamed.
Speaker: I read this comic, Days of Futures Past, issue 141 and 142.
Speaker: I watched the first season of X-Men, the animated series.
Speaker: I watched the movie Days of Futures Past.
Speaker: So I feel a little rehearsed on this.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Back left.
Speaker: Wolverine's in this almost like ninja pose.
Speaker: And there's like, this is the fastball special.
Speaker: Isn't the fastball special like when Colossus throws him?
Speaker: Isn't it more like a Superman pose with his arms out in front of him, his legs behind him kind of thing?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it is.
Speaker: He, I know it's stupid.
Speaker: I know it's something I'm like, but I'm just like, is it the fastball special though?
Speaker: No, but could you imagine having Wolverine with his arms, his outstretched arms and claws and like flying like Superman?
Speaker: True.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: There's no way.
Speaker: Like that is a more typical Wolverine pose right there.
Speaker: But even like in the stern presents, like the five minute thing, like Jack's like, this is the fastball special.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: Is it though?
Speaker: But yeah, maybe, maybe they're just doing a gymnastics pose.
Speaker: Yeah, I know.
Speaker: It's really stupid.
Speaker: I know people, people, I can hear the eye rolling through the mic and through the headphones.
Speaker: I apologize.
Speaker: I just, I wanted to, if that's your one negative you take from all this, like, honestly, you're, you're knocking it out of the park, right?
Speaker: I, you know, I, I just looked at that and I said, ah, that's pretty much what Wolverine, what pose Wolverine is in.
Speaker: And actually, okay.
Speaker: Actually, do you know what it looks more like?
Speaker: It looks more like a saber tooth pose.
Speaker: It kind of does.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Listen to our nerds hanging out.
Speaker: We have a pinball podcast.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Our nerd is on full display.
Speaker: We made our own skirts and we're wearing our own merchandise.
Speaker: I mean, come on.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: I am very happy and comfortable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm comfortable in my own merchandise.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Final.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I mean, obviously it's day one.
Speaker: We haven't played this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All we have is their little quick reveal and we keep watching it, trying to figure out more on it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Let's do some breakdowns.
Speaker: What do you think of gameplay just based off of what you've seen?
Speaker: Interested.
Speaker: That's what I think.
Speaker: I think it looks interested.
Speaker: Now, if you're going to have a knock on John wick,
Speaker: John Wick is very much I've seen maybe not this before, but I've seen a version of this before.
Speaker: And this was my thought on Stranger Things.
Speaker: Like I have Attack for Mars and I thought, well, I could get a Stranger Things.
Speaker: And I've been offered a Stranger Things a few times, like really nice versions of Stranger Things.
Speaker: And I've always passed because I thought, well, I still have Attack from Mars.
Speaker: It has a very similar feel.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Anytime you buy a game, you have to swap out a game.
Speaker: And I never found a game that I thought, this is different enough.
Speaker: So when I went from Spider-Man to Iron Man to Deadpool, that was my progression there.
Speaker: And I don't really plan on swapping Deadpool out anytime soon because I still like it.
Speaker: This is a game that has a potential of feeling like a Deadpool or swapping out a Deadpool because it looks tough.
Speaker: It has some interesting shots with velocity, but it also is taking it to a next level.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: As far as gameplay for me, I'm not sold on, like I'm not buying anything.
Speaker: just yet i've got to get my hands on this game i'm excited i want to play it absolutely i want to play it i'm definitely in the camp of like i'm excited to play with john wick yeah like i don't mind playing it was fun fun but even from first impressions i was like yeah like yeah like i'll play it right this i want to play like if i i see a lineup and i see this in the lineup i'm going straight to it because i want to see how this plays
Speaker: And I think that's the thing too, is a lot of people like I haven't seen anything like this in the last 40 years.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I want to know how this plays.
Speaker: And I love that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So gameplay, obviously we're both excited, maybe not sold on buying, but definitely want to play.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But I, I will point out I'm interested.
Speaker: There are a lot of, like I'm interested, but I, I still am under the camp play a game before you buy it.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Same.
Speaker: Because I, I bought Shrek sight unseen played it and I immediately unboxed it and played it.
Speaker: And I thought I have made a huge mistake because I was like, this wasn't, it wasn't fun from like the first plunge.
Speaker: Okay, artwork, zombie Yeti, how you feeling about it?
Speaker: Come on, this looks, now when George Gomez talks about this is a good throwback.
Speaker: So I've talked about when I read comic books, the four artists that really were the huge ones back then.
Speaker: There was Todd McFarlane, Todd McFarlane did Spawn, also did Venom really, he's the one who came up with the storyline.
Speaker: And Spider-Man.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You have Jim Lee who did, who still has some of the best characters.
Speaker: uh, anatomic versions.
Speaker: And they look like they're like Greek gods and goddesses.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: Wills Portacio has a little more stylistic feel and Rob Liefeld.
Speaker: So those are the, those are the superstars.
Speaker: If you want to know what I'm talking about, go check those guys out.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This feels like a Jim Lee type.
Speaker: And if you want to pick one style to emulate, you want to pick Jim Lee.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, so look at it.
Speaker: This looks great.
Speaker: Hands down.
Speaker: No, no, no questions asked.
Speaker: This looks perfect for this theme.
Speaker: Here's what I'm going to say about this.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So zombie Yeti, we've talked about this on our show before.
Speaker: Like he's been on here and like, and he said like Marvel requests him, like the,
Speaker: There is no ifs, ands, or buts.
Speaker: They will wait to get him.
Speaker: And so he is obviously doing justice to the source material, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: As I go back through, so just in Marvel stuff alone, we're talking Deadpool.
Speaker: We're talking Avengers Infinity Quest.
Speaker: We're talking Venom.
Speaker: What else has Zombie Yeti done?
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So rule those off again.
Speaker: Sorry, I thought I heard my... I think my cat was trying to attack my stuff.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Venom, Avengers, Infinity Quest, and Deadpool.
Speaker: Is there another one he's done?
Speaker: I feel like there's more that he's done.
Speaker: I could be wrong.
Speaker: I apologize.
Speaker: We're going to go with that right now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: At least three, three Marvel themes, right?
Speaker: Three Marvel themes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You could kind of lump in Ninja Turtles, even though it was based off the animated series, but it was a comic book, right?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we've got four solid comic book themes and now we have X-Men.
Speaker: The thing that separates this.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: If you go and look at all those other ones, the,
Speaker: Zombie Eddie has this very much, it's almost like with Deadpool, I'm going to take that as a great example.
Speaker: If you look at that play field, it's almost like a movie poster.
Speaker: You've got
Speaker: You've got the fan of people in the movie, a.k.a.
Speaker: the game.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And then you've got little snippets here and there of little shots from the movie or from the game.
Speaker: Oh, he did Guardians of the Galaxy, didn't he?
Speaker: No, that was Christopher Franchi.
Speaker: Oh, that's right.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: So it's very movie-esque, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I feel like that's how it's been kind of like with Venom.
Speaker: Venom was a little more segmented a little bit.
Speaker: And Avengers Infinity Quest, you look at that play field, it's almost like there's lanes.
Speaker: It's the best way to describe it because each shot is like one's Thor and one's Black.
Speaker: It's very lanes.
Speaker: The thing about this, the thing that I love about X-Men that he's done, it is like he literally took the comic book, opened the pages, and slapped it down on the play field.
Speaker: almost like you're layering comic book over comic book.
Speaker: And so you're seeing these different scenes and the story being illustrated on the play field.
Speaker: And out of everything he's done comic book wise, I think this is some of his best work.
Speaker: Like we can critique like shading and dah, dah, dah, dah.
Speaker: I'm not an artist.
Speaker: I'm not going to go.
Speaker: I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that with you.
Speaker: But seriously, go back and look at his other stuff with Marvel.
Speaker: This is literally taking you into the comic books.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And I think it just was done perfectly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know what are your thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Chris, you know, I love you.
Speaker: They just thinking about Guardians of the Galaxy, which is another comic book thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Obviously that's a different style.
Speaker: Like, uh, so every artist tends to have their own style.
Speaker: So as we talked to with, uh, Frenchie, I did Beatles did guardians of the galaxy.
Speaker: And it, when you have that force.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When you have that, he has definitely more of a picture style, uh, you know, approach.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: When you have, and I would argue Michael Bernard with Jaws and with Rush, it's a different style.
Speaker: With Rush, it was like finding all the Easter eggs from all the Super Rush fans.
Speaker: And when you have Jaws, he's painting that picture.
Speaker: And the picture of having the water, it's different.
Speaker: You are 100% right on being able to say, let's just say I took my comic books
Speaker: And I cut up some pieces of the different comic books and then put them on the play field, laid them down.
Speaker: This is exactly what it is.
Speaker: What now what's the casualty of that, the casualty and the criticism that people feel with zombie Yeti stuff is it feels very busy and it does.
Speaker: This one definitely does.
Speaker: This one definitely is the busiest.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So if that is a, if that is a distraction,
Speaker: I can understand that.
Speaker: I would argue it works really well for this theme.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's a, it's a busy art on a busy game and it works.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: We can't really talk about code.
Speaker: We haven't seen much about that.
Speaker: And honestly, the rule court card's kind of weird and barren and we don't fully understand what's going on.
Speaker: And we couldn't figure out how to start a mode.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How do you start a mode on this?
Speaker: I'm sure they'll fix that.
Speaker: I'm sure they'll fix that.
Speaker: We didn't really talk about this.
Speaker: I guess toys and mechs is separate.
Speaker: What do you think about toys and mechs?
Speaker: It's nice.
Speaker: This is a new take on.
Speaker: Just like I'm going to cough.
Speaker: This is a new take on the bash toy, right?
Speaker: This is bash toy 2.0.
Speaker: Where it comes out, but you have the mouth opening, which has been done similarly with the group mouth.
Speaker: But having kind of that kick back when the mouth opens, that's a new twist.
Speaker: And I do like that.
Speaker: on the side with the broken ramp.
Speaker: Very similar to Godzilla in that it has a ramp that gets disconnected with action.
Speaker: Now, Jack personally has done this in a different way with the home edition, with the jump ramp.
Speaker: So he's played with these states of change, and I do like that situation.
Speaker: I don't really understand the very target much.
Speaker: And is it just for, for looking cool?
Speaker: Is there anything else associated with that?
Speaker: So I'm not, I'm not really sure what to say about that one.
Speaker: The hand, the hand, like, okay.
Speaker: I'm all about having a way of bringing you into the game.
Speaker: The hand looks really cool.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: And, and, you know, I love the, I love the motion on the thing that I like most about, um, Avengers and Fanny quest are the ball paths and the movement, the long trajectories of the ball moving around.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This has that, uh, like even more so.
Speaker: So him to be able to have this rat's nest of ball paths and having them intersect and incorporate that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I, I don't want this to sound bad.
Speaker: I want this to sound very complimentary.
Speaker: I see elements of Deadpool in here.
Speaker: I see elements of Avengers infinity quest.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I see elements of Foo fighters in here and I see elements of
Speaker: I would say a Borg style bash toy that's taken to a different level.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I don't think that's offensive at all either.
Speaker: I would say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Speaker: And especially if you can bring a new twist that elevates, and this seems to have elevated a,
Speaker: on every level, on first glance.
Speaker: Yep, I agree.
Speaker: And I'm there with you.
Speaker: When I saw it first, honestly, I think you could have got away with not having the head go up and down from the play field if there's not much...
Speaker: uh, state change to it.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Like it's still a bash toy, even though it's down.
Speaker: Um, I think on the pro you'll be happy that the, the head stagnant, it still kicks back, but you're not getting that up and down motion out of the play field.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Um, I really think the hands are cool.
Speaker: I think if you're in the market for this, I think you're just as happy with a pro as you are a premium.
Speaker: Um, but there are some, you are taking, um,
Speaker: you're getting 90% of the gameplay out of the pro and there's some, but that extra 10% is really cool.
Speaker: And that's what it should be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it should be that extra 20%.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's, it's interesting.
Speaker: They, the bat, I'm trying to figure out, it looks like,
Speaker: you still go around the sentinel head.
Speaker: It doesn't, it's not like it passes over it.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So the way it works is if you shoot to the left, it actually comes back around the back of his head and goes at this ramp down to the right.
Speaker: If you shoot to the right, it goes around the left and up through these paths on the left.
Speaker: So there's no orbit or anything like that.
Speaker: It actually leads to more ramps.
Speaker: That's why I'm like, Joel Engelberth was like, I think it's just ramps.
Speaker: And I'm like, yeah, it's a lot of ramps.
Speaker: Can we get more ramps?
Speaker: But you know when Spooky teased 17 ramps five years ago on TNA or whatever?
Speaker: That's what's coming out, 17 ramps.
Speaker: I felt like Jack took that to heart.
Speaker: He's like, you guys are joking about that, but I'll do it.
Speaker: Yeah, I'll do it one day.
Speaker: We can do 18.
Speaker: We have the technology.
Speaker: But no, seriously.
Speaker: Overall, I think this is a hit.
Speaker: I think people are obviously going to- It has a potential, right?
Speaker: Because everything is guarded with, we're not sure how it plays, but it has potential.
Speaker: we're hearing it selling better on day one than the outside of jaws.
Speaker: The last couple of releases it's doing, it's doing fairly well.
Speaker: So, right.
Speaker: Well, Foo Fighters did really well too.
Speaker: I mean, to Jack's credit, Foo Fighters was, I mean, for his initial effort and he had a, he had a, I would say another solid B theme, um,
Speaker: But it really does.
Speaker: Can you believe Foo Fighters was almost 15 months ago?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: 16 months ago?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Crazy.
Speaker: That's wild.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I would argue this.
Speaker: I was cautiously...
Speaker: I was concerned when they just said X-Men because we have an X-Men, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like all these themes that it seems like pinball is recycling some themes.
Speaker: X-Men has come out before.
Speaker: Avatar has come out before, you know, Guns N' Roses has come out before.
Speaker: And wait, Jurassic Park has come up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So finding different ways of doing an old story is,
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: The golden eye, James Bond's come out before.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But finding a way of incorporating the Magneto stuff too, without making it feel reductive was, was really cool.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So over overall, we want to play.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Before we shut this down, I want to do a quick review.
Speaker: I teased this like a week or two ago.
Speaker: I got the new pin snake.
Speaker: I got it.
Speaker: So I had nothing to do this weekend.
Speaker: So I decided to clean pinball machines because you decided to pull out your snake and start going around the play field.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So I went to the hardest one I figured would be to clean would be World Cup soccer, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You got long orbits.
Speaker: You've got ramps stacked on top of each other.
Speaker: And like if I'm going to be testing one, it's this one.
Speaker: So I started just getting in there.
Speaker: I did the left orbit first.
Speaker: it reaches almost all the way to the pops.
Speaker: It's shy, maybe an inch or two.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: First off, if you haven't seen the pin snake, please go to pin snake.com.
Speaker: I think it's pin snake.com.
Speaker: Just Google pin snake.
Speaker: I promise you it's going to pop up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: The dude is actually not taking any more orders right at the moment.
Speaker: Cause he's trying to build up a supply.
Speaker: It is pinball expo and snake.com.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: You can go there and you can order them, but you're not going to get them for like a month and a half because he's trying to stockpile to take them to X-Men.
Speaker: Anywho, so I took it around the World Cup play field.
Speaker: If you haven't seen this, it's almost like those fidget toys, the little ones you disconnect and put back together.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It literally has a snake head on it, but it's got Velcro on the sides and on the bottom.
Speaker: So you take your – it comes with a special rag.
Speaker: And it's just like a, what are they, no lint rag,
Speaker: dust free.
Speaker: I can't remember what you call them.
Speaker: It was a microfiber.
Speaker: It's a microfiber.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Good crime.
Speaker: Many people it's, it's 10, 15 at night and I've been up since five.
Speaker: It's, it's been a long day and I've had to deal with idiots and, and it's been a big idiot day.
Speaker: Hey, I'm glad I'm sitting on a pinball podcast talking about the thing I love.
Speaker: Cause you're talking, you're talking to one of the idiots you're dealing with.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: You're not even close.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Anywho.
Speaker: So the pin snake,
Speaker: yep so it was really cool because here's the thing i don't mind cleaning until you get to the part where you it's like well i can't reach in there and i don't want to tear off ramps to clean and six inches you always you always scrape your finger like your knuckles i every time i try to clean back there i always come back with bloody knuckles yeah and so you're always like well this will do enough like i've got the ball pass out of the main way but like
Speaker: 100 plays later, the ball pass are back and it's getting dirty again because you weren't able to get everything.
Speaker: And so I always dread getting in behind everything.
Speaker: So I was really excited for this.
Speaker: And so I get it in.
Speaker: And I start cleaning World Cup soccer.
Speaker: And I said, yeah, I was short a little bit.
Speaker: But even though I was a little bit short, I could still reach with my bare hands.
Speaker: So it wasn't a big deal.
Speaker: I was able to get through the pop bumps area.
Speaker: It handled the ramps great.
Speaker: I was nervous that there wouldn't be enough pressure to push down onto the play field to clean it.
Speaker: It wasn't a problem.
Speaker: It cleaned those spots.
Speaker: Without me having to, because like, you know, when you're cleaning with a rag, you want to apply pressure down.
Speaker: So you're getting the grub off.
Speaker: It did it well.
Speaker: Did you dust or did you like apply Novus?
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I did Novus one.
Speaker: I did not do Novus two.
Speaker: I just did this one.
Speaker: That one right there.
Speaker: So if you're looking on YouTube right now, we just got it.
Speaker: It's the blue Novus.
Speaker: The blue Novus, not the red Novus.
Speaker: And definitely not the green Novus.
Speaker: I don't know if I've ever used green Novus in my life.
Speaker: You should never use the green Novus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know why they make the stuff like red speaker because it's not definitely, it's not just pinball specific.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's for autos, boats, planes, motorcycles, and most plastic services.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Flash pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I went through the whole play field.
Speaker: I went as if I could not touch.
Speaker: I tried to do everything with the snake.
Speaker: So obviously there's, there's a couple of limitations.
Speaker: If you're going up a ramp, so like in World Cup soccer, the ramp on the right goes underneath a plastic form.
Speaker: And so it's kind of hard to get in there with a hand.
Speaker: If you're going up a ramp, obviously the snake stays very parallel.
Speaker: It doesn't flex up and down.
Speaker: It flex left to right, but it won't go up and down.
Speaker: So like there's a little bit of that, but honestly, that's fine with me because if you had like flex up and down, then you couldn't put pressure.
Speaker: Yeah, you couldn't put pressure, and as soon as you did, it would pop up.
Speaker: So it's a pro and a con.
Speaker: I don't know how you'd fix that problem, but it's more of a pro because then I don't have to push down.
Speaker: Really, it hit every spot.
Speaker: I think if you're looking, I want to say it's $35.
Speaker: Is it only $35?
Speaker: Yeah, it's not expensive.
Speaker: It's $35 and maybe a little bit of shipping.
Speaker: It is the must-have tool for your kit.
Speaker: if you don't like cleaning your pinball machine, it's going to make it so much easier.
Speaker: No one likes cleaning their pinball machines.
Speaker: They don't.
Speaker: Unless you're Nick Lane.
Speaker: But it did fantastic.
Speaker: I give it a 9 out of 10.
Speaker: Like I said, there's some limitations.
Speaker: But overall, for what you get from it, the limitations aren't really there.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: I can't clean a one 80 wrapped.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, I'm going to have to just get in there and do it anyway.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Oh, both sides.
Speaker: So yeah, it's 35 bucks and a pin snake towel.
Speaker: Three pack is 10 bucks.
Speaker: So, and that would be my recommendation.
Speaker: Like, I wish I would've got the three pack towel with it.
Speaker: If you're going to buy the pin snake, cause here's the thing, like the towel's great.
Speaker: But you're going to clean one of your pinball machines and be like, yeah, I can flip this over and use it again.
Speaker: But if you're like me, you've got a collection of five or more.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You're going to be like, well.
Speaker: It makes it fast.
Speaker: You can clean it fast.
Speaker: They get black quick.
Speaker: Like, quick.
Speaker: It shocked me how clean.
Speaker: And here's the thing, too.
Speaker: So the actual rag goes onto the side of the snake as well.
Speaker: Just not the belly.
Speaker: But on the side, I didn't realize how much dirt I was getting on the side.
Speaker: I pulled it out.
Speaker: I was like, holy crap.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, like obviously your ball makes contact with the walls, right?
Speaker: And so I don't know why, but I was like, it's nice that you're not just cleaning.
Speaker: It's a good solid motion for everything, right?
Speaker: Like you're not just, you're kind of doing double the work at like half the effort, right?
Speaker: So if you don't have one of these, I highly recommend them.
Speaker: Obviously, they're on hold.
Speaker: The dude's selling it.
Speaker: He can't keep them in stock.
Speaker: Like they're obviously a good product.
Speaker: if you want to see like an actual like usage, Carrie Hardy did like a little five minute video on it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And he's not even sponsored by it.
Speaker: And he was like, I feel like I didn't be.
Speaker: Well, we're not sponsored by it either.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: For 35 bucks, we were sponsored.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was sent as a demo.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was sent as a demo.
Speaker: I will give you that.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: But yeah, it's like, we're not getting paid to do this review.
Speaker: So there is that.
Speaker: So check out Pinsnakes.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: And we are looking forward to Avatar.
Speaker: People talk more about it too.
Speaker: Next time.
Speaker: Pandora.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it was fun to actually start talking about it now, just seeing our reveal, but definitely a lot more coming up.
Speaker: I'm, I'm excited to see what they're bringing up because I have a feeling they have something special.
Speaker: So really quick question.
Speaker: We've only got like maybe five minutes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Cause I got to get going.
Speaker: Do you think, cause the rumor is right now.
Speaker: So American pinball was going to unveil cuphead before expo.
Speaker: but because now JJP's revealed something, Stern's revealed something, Dutch Pinball's revealing Alice, they don't want to get caught up in the... Another Texas Pinball 5?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, but that was like seven, eight titles.
Speaker: Do you think it's wise for them to hold off?
Speaker: Yeah, they have to.
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: I think they need to reveal now, and they need to have it at Expo so people can get hands on it.
Speaker: If they had it available, yes.
Speaker: If they had it available and ready, yes.
Speaker: But they've always struggled with getting a game ready and play worthy.
Speaker: And it's worse if you pre-reveal before you're ready.
Speaker: And then people's first impression is just too hard to overcome.
Speaker: And because it's highly suspected it's Cuphead,
Speaker: That is, you have to make your impression in the first five minutes.
Speaker: So if they're not ready and they're behind, which they typically have been, I would say this is not the time to reveal.
Speaker: You have two big ones coming at you.
Speaker: X-Men feels like it's going to be a big hit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Avatar has a potential of being a really big hit.
Speaker: What was that?
Speaker: It could be a juggernaut.
Speaker: Oh, ooh.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Scott says don't.
Speaker: I say do.
Speaker: We'll see what American does.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Other than that, yeah, man, I'm stoked.
Speaker: Between X-Men and Avatar, Expo is going to be amazing.
Speaker: Someone just messaged me today.
Speaker: All the JJP tickets are sold out for the tour.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you're going to Expo, you better say it.
Speaker: Okay, seriously go and still try out because JJP's factory is fun.
Speaker: It's a great experience.
Speaker: We did the Stern factory.
Speaker: It is impressive just to see how the sausage is made, at least the part of the sausage they'll show us because it really does give you a new appreciation for how hard it really is to make a pinball machine.
Speaker: Well, Ken gave us a private tour of JJP.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and we couldn't make it because we were doing the charity.
Speaker: So that was very kind of Ken to do that.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get a hold of us, or actually first, if you want to buy our swag, because you've been looking at us for an hour now, and you're like, dang, those are some nice hockey jerseys.
Speaker: And you're thinking you could make this look better, which is true.
Speaker: Or you want a pair of shoes.
Speaker: I just got some shoes.
Speaker: I got the Vans.
Speaker: silverballswag.com slash loser kid what was the thing the deal we made on like the last episode if you show up in some loser kid swag I don't know maybe I'll have to go back and listen give you a high five take a picture we'll figure out what it was yeah exactly that reminds me though if you want a hat you're taking pre-orders from the hats it's pinned to the top of Facebook go there
Speaker: submit a response um i will be doing that at the end of like the 27th is the deadline because i have to get these in get them ordered we have the gold we have the gold one the it's gold baby we also have uh are you making any more of these the these loser ones yeah anything we've offered in the past besides the black red side the og yeah yeah the og we cannot get our hands on but anything else if you want it we can get it i have pictures okay yeah
Speaker: So if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Twitter, X, whatever, Instagram threads, Twitch, YouTube, all at loser kid pinball.
Speaker: We've made it easy.
Speaker: Just all in a little bundle like that.
Speaker: I've totally lost track of what I was trying to say.
Speaker: check us out on YouTube.
Speaker: Please subscribe all that jazz.
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: Give us our last thoughts, Scott.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And we may have more in-depth information on the games coming up here soon.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Maybe even as soon as next week.
Speaker: Maybe.
