Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning into the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain. Scott Larson. It's reveal day, baby. We've got Circus Voltaire. We've got American Pinball. Rob and Brian are joining us.
Speaker: If you want this game, Scott, where are you getting it from? You Zach and Nicole Manny flipping out pinball. They can hook you up with the Circus Voltaire and all pinball needs. So go ahead and reach out to them. Like I alluded to before, we got got Rob Roth with us.
Speaker: He is the new marketing guy for American Pinball. He's been on before as Electric Playground and his amazing toppers. And now the new owner, Brian Vincent. How are you both doing?
Speaker: Doing great. Excited to be here Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's ah it's been a big last couple of days and it's been a big last... seven months or eight months since since we sort of restarted. And so we're excited. We're a lot of good things coming.
Speaker: Speaking to that seven to eight months, can we just say how insanely cool this is? Like, so you bought the company in January. You started talking about this in Texas Pinball Festival. I mean, this has got to be the fastest I've seen when a game even has been rumored to when it actually reveals. So we're at nine months now. And you guys are saying you're going to be shipping out here at Expo.
Speaker: I guess we're at the tail end of August, but still eight months, 10 months out. How the heck are you guys pulling this off? That's what I kind of know. Well, with a lot of really good people and a lot of help, you know, for me as a leader and someone who's built companies is, you know, if you give people the resources that you need, they need and you give them, um you know, the ability and the vision, know,
Speaker: tight end what you want to do, you know, people respond and, you know, we built this team pretty quickly and we've, I said on another one a long time ago, I said, I have this sleep in your car test. If you're willing to sleep in your car for two days to come work for us, I'll find a job for you because we really want people who are excited about what we're trying to build at American. And, um,
Speaker: you know And so, yeah, it's been it's been a lot of work, but um you know fortunately, we've got a team that likes likes to work and we've ah we start we had the advantage in some cases, well especially with um with you know doing a reimagined version of a game that you know we had a basic play field layout. We had a lot of the the basic...
Speaker: components there. So that wasn't a redesign, if you will, from just starting with a blank white wood. And that helps a lot. Some of the assets were there. So that that can speed up the process. Although I will sit go on the record as saying,
Speaker: After doing ah people say, oh, it's just a reme remake. I said, after doing, trying to take an old 90s game and convert it to a ah modern era pinball machine, I think it's maybe easier because you're dealing with space and constraints when they originally designed the game and molds. And it may be easier actually just to build a game from the bottom up. So we learned a lot. We were learning a lot in this process. We've learned a lot. And we're excited now to just put it on the line and get it into production. So...
Speaker: And I must say, this thing looks amazing. So I got to ask Circus Voltaire, why this remake? Why this game? Why is this the first one from American Pinball?
Speaker: There's great reasons to build it in the sense of they've already done a lot of really classic Valley Williams games. And this is one that a lot of people were talking about. ah Brian had kind of made this decision before I involved, but even we had started on a topper design because you know There's not a lot of them out there. There's around 2,500. think there's a lot of them that didn't even survive you know the 29 years that it has existed.
Speaker: um So a lot of people know about it. It's obviously a packed game. There's a lot of interesting shots that don't exist in any other game. So bringing this to the market, a market that wants remakes, ah was something that I think was an obvious decision for any company to consider. And when Brian started to pull this team together and tell us about it, and also just generally wanting to do do some reimagined games of other titles in the in the Bally Williams library, this seemed like a ah great, great title to start with.
Speaker: you know if you look out in the wild, i mean I think if you go to the pen map, you can probably find about 60 of them or something you know out there that you can just go play. I mean, there's probably more than that. But it's not ah it's not a widely known about game because it was sort of at the end of the Bally Williams era. it It actually didn't sell well when it first came out for a number of reasons that aren't necessarily even related to the game itself.
Speaker: But yeah, so we wanted to reimagine something that also feel like to some people a brand new game. We've never had to have you know but been able to have that experience um you know with Circus Voltaire. Brian, actually, as you said that, I just looked it up. It claims that there's only 108 public locations to play this machine worldwide.
Speaker: That's supposedly the pin side map. You're not too far off with there's not many of these games out in the wild to go get your hands on. right I think that people who are have been in pinball long enough, especially emerging through the doldrums of the 2000s, are familiar with Circus Voltaire.
Speaker: And it it's been one of those games where it hasn't been kind of a a tournament darling because the code set is kind of limited, but it's always been a fan favorite for the experience. It's one of the few ones that had the... you know the DMD that was down underneath the back box. It certainly had ah a very distinctive look and it it had a lot of fun just things about the game that made it an experience which I thought I've always enjoyed playing it just because it is different. It's a deviation from what a lot of the other games are. are
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. And you know it's it's but we were Rob and I were talking about this. you know One of the things that I think you know we maybe be regressed in pinball is the mechanical magic of the 90s, right? I mean, a lot of modern pinball don't even as have as great a mechs as they had back then or interesting things with, you know you think about you know everything from you know Theater of Magic, the Addams Family. you know There was a lot of interesting you know mechanics that went ah went along. Not that they don't have great stuff today. I mean, Dune has the cool you know ah worm mech and stuff, but you're just seeing less and less of that type of stuff. And there was sort of a magic, I think, that was associated with you know some of these these older games. And really, the reality is some of the mechs are similar in a lot of ways. There's nothing really that new in Pinball, but I feel like we've kind of moved away from that. um So this kind of still captures some of that 90s nostalgia.
Speaker: Another thing that a lot of the remakes are doing well is better light shows. And and with with Circus, you've got this neon bar going along the right hand side. But interestingly, i don't know if it was random, but there was only three colors. So, you you know, you can see a green one or a blue one or a red one. And there was just a huge opportunity to bring new light shows to that neon bar. But also one of the early decisions we made was to use clear inserts on both the classic and ah the ringmaster.
Speaker: ah The classic game, the original game had, you know, red inserts and blue inserts. So there wasn't variability in that. So by using clear inserts and modern RGB lighting, the light show on this is just really another world compared to what, you know, you would get in the original game and complement that with the neon bar. We added lighting into the speakers on the ringmaster. We added a light on the upper mini upper play field. So it's it really glows. And if you you check out the photography, you can kind of start to see that ah as a very distinctive factor of this game.
Speaker: How do you take a game from the 90s, but modernize it enough that you still get the pop in today's competition, but retain the same feel that people had when they had the game or they played it 30 years ago?
Speaker: you know We kind of talked in the pre-show, there's been a lot of iterations. I can say one thing that we're really focused on is building collector-grade products and and games for the collector and providing a great experience in the home. And one thing that a lot of collectors haven't got to do is experience Circus Voltaire. in detail in the home. So part of our kind of methodology around the shot architecture and the rules was like, let's let people experience what they probably have never really experienced before, but then just add on to it. So we've got some really nice kind of code updates that we're doing, new features and new modes, but it's layered on. It's not a re re-imagination on that level.
Speaker: um But yeah, you you got to bring it with the lighting and light shows, video, audio. We've got remastered audio, better speaker system. um But it's ah it's the same layout. we're We're not changing any of that. We want to give people that original feel. And of course, they'll get it even more with the classic if they want to go that route too.
Speaker: Speaking of original feel and whatnot, one thing that i do notice that you guys did that is unique to any remake that has been done nowadays is you've taken the DMD and you've ah reimagined it with 3D assets. Is this going to be specific just the l e Is the classic going to be more dots? What made you decide to go this route instead of dots?
Speaker: Yeah, so it will be ah exclusively 3D full-color animations. It's about a 15% larger screen.
Speaker: ah It is HD, high color. ah we We kind of debated early on about offering the DMD route. And as we started to contemplate new modes, both at launch and post launch and syncing all that up, ah as well as just really like offering a more modern experience, we made the decision to go with the full color graphics. But all of the scenes that we built in 3D are based on the original scene. So yeah one of the iconic scenes is where ah The Madame Voltaire kind of goes across the screen and there's sparkle effect and it's the same concept. It'll be the same sounds. And of course, the nostalgia is the sounds as well. But it's going to be immersive with the new lighting and with the new graphics and that type of stuff. um So we've already been hearing like i wanted to have the DMD. I want to have the dots. But I i can assure you, as you really feel it and and experience it, you're going to be wowed by by what you see for sure.
Speaker: So let's also talk about the two different versions. We have ah what we are calling, I think you're calling it the classic version, right? And then you also have the ringmaster version. So tell me about the two different ones and how do you ah how do you guide someone if they're trying to decide which one they're going to get?
Speaker: Yeah, so the classic was meant to stay as true to the original as possible, like even down to the nickel finish armor, right? So we want anybody that wants that edition to be able to get that. It will have the full ah RGB lighting with the clear inserts. It'll have the multi-color RGB neon bar. Yeah. The the the ball in the back is similar. It'll have upgraded speakers. It'll have the larger display.
Speaker: um i think it's got a knocker, which is a nice thing. It has a bell so both editions have a bell now where the ball goes up in the back box um and it hits a bell and makes a ding sound. So this game is kind of got all these over the top things that they did with it. So that'll be in your classic edition.
Speaker: What else am I missing, Brian? There's not too much we we didn't hold back on the Ringmaster. The classic is pretty brief standard. yeah yeah um As far as the Ringmaster, it is completely you know tricked out in so many ways. I mean, just some highlights. First of all, full not new art package. Brian Allen has done a number of these classic remakes with this reimagined edition.
Speaker: He's hit every surface that had artwork. I'm talking about not just play field and the back glass or the back acrylic in the cabinet, but also we've got all the plastics, all of the stickers. He did a custom apron.
Speaker: ah He did a magnet that can be ah removed or left on for the coin door. He also did a topper. So the topper ah pays homage to the original scrolls that were in the game, which was a very unique feature of the original game. They just happened to be a single molded piece of purple plastic. In this case, they're fully illuminated. They have light shining out from the front and the sides.
Speaker: And then we have ah the cat featured on the topper. and There's three motors in the topper and Brian did all the artwork. um there There are a lot of cats in the game. There's been a little bit of conversation online about like what's what's with the cat. what's What's really cool about the cat is he's actually a ah very interesting antagonist in the game because when you start the high wire multiball he actually ends up electrocuting the acrobats that are in the game, um which is kind of like a Judge Dredd moment, you know, where there's like these interesting things happening to the characters in the game. But we decided to feature him on the on the topper. And then he's in a few more key places on the game as well.
Speaker: um Man, I mean, there's so many things in this game. There's six sculpts that are done by the art of pinball. So with Melvin Williams joining American Pinball, He's bringing some of that methodology and creative strategy that he did on his previous title to ah Circus Voltaire. And you you're even going to see more of that in more of our titles going forward. But there's ah the sculpts and the in outlanes. And then you've got a nice shooter rod that's still a nice feel in a ball.
Speaker: And then we added a new thing, which is called an art lock, which is actually a cover that goes over the key, but it's a fully sculpted uh knob essentially for opening and closing your coin doy uh which is really nice um we've got sorry there's so many things here i'll keep going we've got uh the wonder rails of light which is the illuminated ah side art that's also multi-color um you saw that first with uh alice's adventures in wonderland you're seeing it in more games now even from stern uh but that is there um and then lots of stuff on the code side which will apply to both both editions
Speaker: um And then you've got a lot of standard creature comforts. You've got Invisiglass, shaker motor, ah knocker, um and powder coating throughout. Like even the wire forms are powder coated on this. Even the apron is powder coated. Coindor, which is a big one that you're not seeing from every manufacturer.
Speaker: You might mention that's in this. but Yeah, the decals. just ah you know we Oh, yeah, I forgot. One the most important features. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, with with cabinet decals, as we know over time, they can wrinkle or they can peel.
Speaker: ah But there are some that you can get that have this durable crystal-like finish. ah You're seeing it from Spooky. You're seeing it in the aftermarket. We're calling that Crystal Lux, but it's a very similar technology. It also creates very crisp colors, especially with high-end digital artwork. So there's a clear protective coating.
Speaker: And it's basically a big piece of plastic that sticks onto the side. And you're going to get that on the main cabinet, on the upper cabinet, and then also on the coin door as a magnet as well. So we're really, really proud of everything we put into this. And we're we're still able to get this under 13K price point with a very over the top topper, not to mention all the other stuff that's in it as well.
Speaker: I just want to make one one comment too that's in both editions and ah um all of the audio, um Alex Gerst, you may or may not know Alex, but he really he we took all of the audio and remastered it into stereo and that's on both versions. And um we even found the person we're working with that did the original call outs.
Speaker: to do some new call outs, trying to find someone 30 years later. It's really been an interesting process. And but fortunately, Melvin has like a treasure trove of like old files and photos. So we were able to dig up, you know, a lot of things and do some do some new call outs, even do some stuff that wasn't in the original game. So, um you know, that's cool. And that's going to be that audio is, you know, not not only enhanced audio from a speaker and sound standpoint, but all of the call outs, all of the um you know, music has been completely remastered. So just want to point that out as well.
Speaker: So one thing that's interesting about this is that you mentioned in the ringmaster edition, you get the topper, you get the scrolls and yes, you can actually buy the standard edition,
Speaker: You can powder coat all the stuff yourself, which is a huge endeavor. You can also now you can still buy the topper and the scrolls right now. They're just not included. And so you can still, but then you add invisible glass, you add all that kind of stuff. And if you did it yourself, I'm guessing you're going to be well above $13,000 when all is said done.
Speaker: When you add it all up, the Delta, I think we added it up. And if you were paying retail for the essential, I mean, our, our crystal X technology is basically like a rad cow, right? It's very similar. And, um, so if you basically added all that stuff, um, it's probably $4,000 worth upgrades. So, you know, there was a lot of debate of whether we, whether we, oh, 12, six feels like a sticker shock. Do we sell it at, you know, um,
Speaker: you know, 10, nine or 10, five, and then take some of this stuff out or let people add it separately. and we're like, you know what? We want to present this game for collectors. And we think 12, six is a really good value when you really understand how full this game is and, you know, whether that was the right decision or not to not sell the top or it separately. But we just felt like we, you know, when you create, ah this is kind of a work of art, you know, I mean, it's a very, very, um,
Speaker: You know, we wanted the game to be presented as we wanted it to be designed and the topper was a key element to that. And, you know, all the different powder coating we wanted, we really wanted to show.
Speaker: and I know Melvin wanted to demonstrate what we can do from a, from ah a really artistic collector standpoint. I do have to applaud you guys. ah One of the things that's on this list is ah your new flipper technology, your new flipper boards. I know one of the things that it's original problems that plagued American was that the flippers could feel some stiff or may underpowered or floaty at sometimes.
Speaker: Can you tell me more about these boards and um what made you decide to go with this route? I own 55 pinball machines and I can tell you every type of flipper.
Speaker: And, you know, I mean, i'll I'll just be out there and compliment. I told Seth Davis the same thing. You guys make the you have the best consistent flipper technology out there and I'm going to go figure out how to do that.
Speaker: And, um you know, the original board set, um you know, was a different technology. the The flippers somewhat improved when you, and so did the whole board. um You know, one thing that the previous owners did that I is ah was a very nice piece of intellectual property is they spent hundreds of thousands of of dollars on the board set.
Speaker: um but the flippers still, I think, had room for improvement. So what we did is we have a separate flipper board. It's got an onboard magnetic transformer, two larger capacitance filters, and then some stuff we're doing with software. So the the net effect is um that, you know, you...
Speaker: when you, when you, there's not a latency in the flippers. i don't know if you've played a lot of games. I can, I won't, I never talk about, you know too many of these, but even I'll talk about Houdini, right? If you get on a multi-ball, it's not catching up fast enough, right? And that was one of the complaints. And that's been a complaint of not just, I mean, JJP has gone through this. Everyone's gone through some of this stuff. And my goal was, you know,
Speaker: Number first and foremost, a pinball machine has to shoot well and it has to be responsive. And, um you know, i feel like if we can get that right, then that's an important thing, because even for a new person as a collector, that's fine. But, you know, eventually they as they play more and more pinball, they expect, you know, that kind of responsiveness. You know, as I know, I matured as a player. It's like, wow, this is starting to feel different now. And as I got better and better, it's like, you know, I started realizing which games play the best, you know, which which which, um you know, technologies of less flippers. And so we just we looked into that. um And ah yeah, we're excited about about the new boards that we actually hit it.
Speaker: just as a test. It's not it's GTF actually flippers are pretty good. um And we I feel good about those. um But we actually took the boards and put them into the GTF of victory editions at Southern Frank gave me an expo.
Speaker: And they all those machines, it was um they they got 1500 plays each and the flippers held up really well. We got nothing but compliments on on the flippers, not not a single complaint at the whole show. and So I want to do my own market analysis, right? Let's take four machines there. Let's put 1500 plays on them and see how they do. So we're really excited about about that.
Speaker: ah That is one thing that you are 100% correct. ah Stern sells, and this is this an open secret. Stern sells by far the most games out there. And the one thing that people really like about buying them and putting them on location is their reliability is quite good and it's re reproducible.
Speaker: And so here's the question, as a smaller company, How do you bridge that gap? How do you try to maintain the same level of reliability that the biggest company out there has? And how can you compete? Because it's a different scale. like they're making ah They're making more games than anybody really put together.
Speaker: And so as a smaller boutique company, how do you find your balance and make your mark? Yeah, that's a great question. So as ah you know, I would say you're right about boutique companies, but you know, if you look at our manufacturing line, you know, I've been manufacturing for a long time and there are certain six Sigma processes. There's, there's how, I think when you break up your manufacturing into pieces, instead of having one guy do a bunch of things on the line and, and, you know, you basically have quality checks throughout the process. So, you know, we're implementing a lot of, that type of manufacturing discipline that I come from in my background and implementing that into our builds. I'll be honest, it's taken some time because it's a total different mindset um and it takes time to train people properly. It takes time to, you know, have, um you know, every, every,
Speaker: um step in the process clearly defined and in a way that's reproducible and testable as you move down the line. Because what you don't want to have happen is even if you catch it in your own quality process, you don't want to start finding out you got a problem on a play field when the whole thing's put together and you're in the middle of final testing. and you certainly don't want to get that out to a customer. So, um you know, there's been there have been a lot of things that have been a learning curve.
Speaker: for even some of the staff that we had and some of the new staff that we brought in, which is really why we wanted to you know start and do a couple of these um sort of new additions because it gave our ah us an opportunity to reboot and scale and teach in this process, which is why we've been pretty methodical in that. So as we move into Circus Voltaire, we feel really good about um our quality and reliability.
Speaker: So, you know, it's, it's, it, it, depth the size size should not limit you to quality. It's just a matter of having the right disciplines to make sure you're following those.
Speaker: Granted, is there an advantage of economies of scale? Absolutely. But, um but, and, and, you know, the, the more, let's be honest too, you know, to cut some of the boutiques of credit, the more stuff you pack into a game,
Speaker: you're just mathematically going to have a potential for something to have an issue. Right. And so, you know, but one for one, you know, I think what we're doing is, you know, we're going in the right direction. We're we're implementing basic, you know, sort of ISO type quality processes that, you know, we'll continue with, and that will allow us to grow because, you know, my goal is not to, you know,
Speaker: You know, my goal is to be making two to three thousand, you know, call it that maybe not quite that many, 1600 to 2500 games a year. I think that's a sweet spot for America and it allows us to bring out a couple of new titles a year. um So that's not been a secret that that's been our goal. um And, you know, we're going to keep working until we get there.
Speaker: Yeah, we've, we've added four new lines. So American traditionally just had two lines. We've got four new lines. They're not all up and running fully, but they will be for circus. We've also completely overhauled the parts and inventory process. A lot of mistakes that are made from a quality is about making compromises or just not having enough of the same parts or buying parts from different vendors. So we've been investing in, you know, the right amount of parts for certain parts. Um, circus has been challenging and to get on because it's like a combination of original. AP parts and
Speaker: older parts. So we're not using all of our own stuff. So getting all that figured out. And of course, we've been building, you know, other games as well. So um it's it's been it's been an overhaul process in that sense. But we are excited to be using new board system that was first introduced with the Galata Tank Force. They perform much better.
Speaker: And then, of course, with the with the clip quick flipper technology, it's just it will be continued to make those improvements, too, as we see opportunities as well. So a lot lot has happened over the last nine months for sure.
Speaker: Man, really does sound like you're making a hardware overhaul, which is is great in my opinion. If you can improve upon quality, i mean, I think that's what the end user really wants, right? They don't want to have to tear anything apart. I, I, I'm fine with the coil stop because it's two screws and it's not that big of a deal. But if there's problems with the the play field, if there's, if there's hardware issues with the circuit board, I can't fix that stuff.
Speaker: And just becomes a nightmare for us as end consumers to do that stuff. One thing I do have to applaud you guys though, you're doing a new rule set for this new edition. Is this going available for both classic and ring master? What can we expect from this rule? This rule? Yeah. So, so a couple of things on that, ah everything I talk about with the rules is consistent on both. Um,
Speaker: So that's including the new visual display. We will be offering ah for purist and or in a tournament setting for you to go back to the original rules. So not the DMD, but the original rules. we We're also incorporating So I believe in 2002, Cameron Silver, who was an original a software developer for the game, came out with a new version that added some interesting new features, but also added some creature comforts like blow offs, which is the concept of like going past the animation. so you don't have to wait on it.
Speaker: um There was some things with the eddy sensor, which fortunately we're not dealing with an eddy sensor. In fact, but from from a code perspective, um In the original game, and it's very similar in attack from Mars, like when the ball gets up to those targets, it actually senses the balls there. It's not actually registering a hit, uh, with ours, where we you can actually know if you're hitting the left side or the right side of the center.
Speaker: of the ringmaster. So that's going to open up some new kind of like hurry up or skill shot type opportunities. ah But beyond that, in addition to the original code, we're adding one mode called menagerie mania and then also a two X multiplier, which are both focused on the target on the far left hand side of the game that's behind the ball that rattles around in the cage. That traditionally was a shot that really didn't have a lot of value. And it's it's pretty tough to hit.
Speaker: um We've also made some changes to post locations. it's It's an optional thing. You can still go back to the old one to hit that shot easier. But ah a 2x play field multiplier is really fun. It's going to be a timer based based on how many of the circus letters you achieve, which in the original code achieving circus letters didn't actually have an award. so that's going to contribute to your play field multiplier. We're also adding some deeper jackpots into main multiballs like high wire multiball. So now you're you're When you get high wire multi ball, which is the main locks in the game, there's just some jackpots that start off all on and then they rove and that's really it. There's not a lot of depth to that. And of course, now we're used to a lot of depth in our main multi balls. Now you're actually going to be able to relock balls and the more balls you have locked multipliers on your jackpot, but they're going to be on a timer. So it's going to be a little bit of a, we were talking about G and R earlier. a little bit of a kind of like loading up and trying to maximize things. And that's really just scratching the surface.
Speaker: on what we have planned. ah But it it is based on the ethos of giving people the game that they probably have never really played in depth and giving them more visually for that with the remastered audio.
Speaker: ah So we're we're excited to hear what people think. and we're going to be, i mean, we just put out a major code update on GTF. I don't know that we've talked about that in detail here, but a lot of that was driven by user feedback and user engagement and what they wanted. And we're we're going to take that same approach with Circus as much as possible as well.
Speaker: And mechanically, I'll just say the you know the the ball in the menagerie cage, um you know it never registered well. it was basic It's basically a McDonald's ah you know play ballll ball. We will provide those in the coin door for people who want them and they want to put the old post back in. But we actually went to a ceramic ball. and it registers better. It's a slightly smaller ball, but it's heavier.
Speaker: And so it's a much better approach to how that ball can interact. In some ways, it makes it a little, it makes it tougher, but easier. so you almost have to swing the ball a little bit, and then you can really make the shot. So, you know, we tried to improve on what was just sort of thrown in there, I believe is not not an after that. It's so an integral part of the game, but the ball was always had some issues with registering as it went around. And so we wanted to make sure that mechanically you know, that worked. And instead of a pinball too, we actually have a matching smaller ceramic ball that goes, you know, in the back box that rings the bell. So they're both a yellow color ball. So, you know, we tried to to do some upgrades in those two areas with the, with the, the the smaller, so with the ceramic ah balls that we added.
Speaker: we're We're doing some other smaller stuff. So traditionally the the general opinion is that the ball that fires in the back box is interesting, but it's kind of lame because it, it does, there's a switch up there that you hit, but there's no skill to getting that switch. There's a mode in the game where you can actually fire the ball five times. But again, it's not really that interesting. So we're we're doing a thing where in that mode specifically, instead of just hitting the flipper buttons to flip it, you can actually hold down the flipper buttons to set the power of the solenoid. And then when you let go
Speaker: It'll actually allow you to, on your current location game, to know if like, hey, if I hit it with three power versus four, the likelihood of so hitting that switch is higher. So a really small thing, but just trying to like kind of add value to something that traditionally is considered semi-valueless in the experience or are not as valuable valuable as it could be.
Speaker: I think this is actually a good point to talk a little bit about to you, Brian. So we've talked a little bit in the back background of, ah hey, you've been in manufacturing. You have started companies. You've been on the manufacturing side.
Speaker: So why pinball? And when you said you started companies, and There's two options you can do. You can build it from the ground up or you can buy a company who has some assets and you're ready ah to hit the ground running.
Speaker: So tell me about what made you interested in doing pinball and you obviously decided to buy American pinball. So what made this a good ah option for you?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, because i I always tell people, they said, well, you're an entrepreneur, you've done a startup, you built this really big company. And, you know, um I said, I would not recommend my career path to anyone. It's ah it's definitely a different um ah type of mindset and, you know, it's tough. It's not easy doing startups. But, um you know, I learned a lot by mistakes. You know, I've been I've been in business for, you know, when I started my first company, I was 31 years old. And, um you know, it was I was a younger guy and um learned a lot of what not to do. um
Speaker: So when I, went what what happened was ah my, my, one of my, the main company that we were an LED lighting company. We manufactured and I was, you know, we, we chatted a little bit beforehand and I was explaining that um the assembly operation and the steps are very similar. the difference is we made thousands of products from less raw materials in the case of pinball, you're making less products from thousands of raw materials, but the the assembly steps and the operations are very similar in the processes. So I knew a lot of, I mean, when I, when we, the company got so big, honestly, that, you know, I like running smaller companies. I mean, we got like 70% market share globally in the signage and architectural space. and it was just that size. It was time to, I thought to sort of sell and retire for a little bit. And about four months in, my wife said,
Speaker: ah What are you doing? um And you need to you need to get out of the house. But I've always been a big pinball fan. I'm a pinball collector. um and so I thought, you know, I'd like to do something in the space. And I actually thought, you know, what I'm going explore this. I thought about maybe just being a dealer.
Speaker: But, you know, as a manufacturing background, I thought, you know I'd really like to do some manufacturing. And I kind of run across American. I'd heard about American. um And I knew they were maybe struggling at the time or there wasn't a clear future. One of the things that I've learned is, you know, did they have certain assets that I could use, right? For me to develop a new board set from the ground up, you know, the question was, how do you, how did you get here so fast in nine months? Well, you know, they had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars because the previous owners, that's what they do. They manufacture, you know, basically boards. and had had done a really good job actually on their new board set that was in GTF. And so I saw some elements that could allow me to get where I wanted to go faster.
Speaker: And my experience it from R&D and development knows that if you can have some of these already in place, you know you can you can you save yourself a lot of heartache. The things I didn't want was the culture.
Speaker: i didn't want um the marketing and sales. strategy. um I wanted to revamp customer service. you know my My company's always, we built our company on customer service. We talked about reliability, but the other aspect of that is when you're slamming a steel ball around inside of a a machine, things are going to break.
Speaker: And you know the last thing people want to do is make a phone call and six days later, and I've experienced this. I've experienced this as an owner where, you know, I put in a service request and 10 days later, I haven't heard anything. So, you know, i customer service was something that I wanted to change that a lot of it had just sort of, and it wasn't,
Speaker: any of the people we, we retained some of the people were there, they were just, and I've said this before, really starved for leadership and starved for capital. You know, you gotta have those two things. You gotta have the capital it takes and the financial wherewithal to be committed to the industry. And you also have to have the, um you know, the leadership and get the team in going in the right direction and empower them to do their job, you know? um so Uh, you know, when I got into pinball, I thought, you know, this would be great. It's going to be just like I've done other manufacturing company. I learned really quickly, uh, making pinball machines is difficult.
Speaker: Uh, I, I said the other day, what I find to be the most interesting and difficult, because it's such a hobby or sometimes the buyers, the And the people in the community can be pretty brutal. um But I think all in all, you know, I always tell people if you do the right things and you take care of people and um if you make a mistake, you own it, you try and fix it and you try and do better. um You know, people understand that. And but but.
Speaker: The key is to your point, Scott, is you got to put the infrastructure and the quality in place. And, you know, I i thought this would be a great place to start a bit, to to take a business, reboot it, revamp it, kind of do a pseudo- you know, totally new leadership, totally new mindset and bring what I've done in, you know, other companies and bring that expertise into an industry that I love. And, you know, I mean, I can promise you if I was just about making money, pinball would not be where I would, you know, so this is also a bit of a labor of love. And I love this community. I love pinball. I want to see it successful. I want to see it thrive. And, um
Speaker: you know, I'm committed. um You know, it's it's ah I'm not just dedicated, you know, I'm I'm I'm committed. I'm all in. So, um yeah, we're excited and I'm excited about just the opportunity to be able to make something that people enjoy, you know, especially something that I love as well. I mean, you know, it was funny. um one of our engineers, um he was working on something. And when i remember when we first, when he first got, when the first, everything got wired up and it got coded to the software and the flippers turned on, started flipping, he had me on speaker and he started tearing up. He was so excited.
Speaker: He's like, I'm actually kind of crying here because, you know, i think they just, there was there was this lack of excitement and this lack of, you know, it's an exciting thing, you know, to to build something that that you you were involved with and people are going to buy and love.
Speaker: So that's why I got into pinball. That's why I bought the company. And that's why I'm committed to, you know, helping this industry and um just, you know, I love it. So my my short two second history of pinball is,
Speaker: I was really poor. I was a graduate student um and my wife was selling shoes at a shoot a department store at night to try and we were trying to make money and we didn't have any money. So but there was this little putt putt place and for three bucks, you could go play around a putt putt and they give you like a Coke and and a candy bar and they give you this cup full of tokens. And they had an Adams family pinball machine stuffed in the corner.
Speaker: And, uh, and I remember when I got the multi-ball the first time, it's like, I love pinball moments. And that was a, that's, I think one of the best moments in pinball when the whole thing goes crazy and it says showtime. And, uh, I told my wife, I said, one of these days I'm going to make enough money that I'm going to buy my own. I'm going to want to buy my own Adams family pinball machine. And so that was the first machine I bought, how I got back into the hobby and really started to become a collector. So, um, that's, that's kind of my at least my, my background and pinball story of like why I got into the the whole hobby and got into the manufacturing part. So.
Speaker: So next coming from American pinball's Adams family. Joe, just some licensing. I would love to. there you know but you know There's some things. you know A lot of people don't understand licensing. There is there are complexities there, not just with Valley Williams, but there are also secondary licenses that have to be taken care of.
Speaker: Learning about licensing has been been quite an experience because you know our our goal is to, to actually make licensed titles. And I haven't been, uh, that's not been a secret. We have some, some licenses already in place and we've got those in the works and they're in different development stages. So, um, but yeah, it's, you know, yeah, the Adams family is a great one. I mean, it would be like, I would love to make it. Um, you know, unfortunately i don't know that that's necessarily in the card. So, but I'm happy with Circus Voltaire right out the gates and we have another one coming. So, um,
Speaker: you know, we're kind of a two track system where we're going to do some remakes. and We call it re-imagine because quite frankly, i don't want to just do remakes. You asked about like what, you know, I want new people to experience it and experience it in a modern way and put our own mark on it.
Speaker: And you know what, if that means we sell a few less games, that's okay. um I want to, I want to make a game that people going to walk and go, wow. And even people who have played the game are going to say, You know, it's different, but I still remember it. So there's there's a balance there. But I mean, I don't want to do remakes. We want to reimagine games. So some people want to remake, they can remake. And it's just not probably the direction we're going to continue. That's not our track. So we're going to reimagine these games and we're also have our own IP. So if you kind of ask about what, from a manufacturing standpoint, what does that put us to? know, I'd like to get to that, you know, call it.
Speaker: you know, 1500 games a year and then maybe do like a special stuff in between. But it's going to take time to get there. Look, I know people like Brian's always super aggressive and, you know, but I always say you can't win the Kentucky Derby by screaming, whoa. So, you know, i want to keep challenging the team.
Speaker: You know, I think Rob will say, you know, I'm not shy. I'm making sure that we have the resources we need to be successful financially, equipment, staff, et cetera.
Speaker: I appreciate it. It sounds realistic to me. It sounds like you've you've got a great heart and and you're taking this company that has needed a breath of fresh air for a while now. and and putting the quality and the dedication into it and like you said if you wanted to make money don't go into pinball like this is a this is a passion thing you know and it's great to hear that and i like even i know you're saying reimagining but you're still making a plastic edition with necessary upgrades right like correct i i like i so i agree with you the certain i hope the ceramic ball is a lot more receptive than it that little plastic mcdonald's play plant pen
Speaker: ball that you, you know, we'll be in the coin box. So if you're, if you really want it, you know, now I'm not, yeah if you want to go find out how to convert all of our code back to DMD, you know, that's going to be on you, but there's someone that's going to be on pin side that wants to do that. Yeah. Just was like you said that I, you have seen games that came out originally And the next version is better. And just coming ah off the top of my head, um okay, when they did Medieval Madness, they basically tried to do as close of a reproduction with the first ah run as possible. But then people said, oh, well, maybe I want a topper. Maybe I want an upgraded DMD. ah Other two that come to mind. Playing the original Cactus Canyon is not that fun.
Speaker: it' It's really not that fun. It was rare and it was expensive, but it's not that fun. And the new version of it, the modern version of it is so much better. and even a different thing. Like, so Metallica, like the original one is great.
Speaker: The re-imagined one, the new one, it does take it to more of a modern level. And I like that. So it is, it is, it is following a trend that people have wanted is to take a classic iconic game and bring it up to today's standards. And this, okay, this, if,
Speaker: If this plays as good as you're describing, then it's going to be behind me. It's going to be here and it it looks great. this is This is one of the games I fell in love with when I first started playing pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a great point. And, you know, I'm glad you mentioned Cactus Canyon because when I put on the upgrade kit, right, um which, by the way, CGC did a good job of explaining how to do It was easy to install, at least for me. Maybe some people it wasn't. But yeah, I stripped the wire. And so i i I struggled. I had to resolder a wire. I actually had to re-solid wire because I did pull one off that I have to admit that. But um but, ah you know, they actually changed the shot.
Speaker: Right. And and, you know, I think you're going to see in some of our future remakes, we might enhance a shot or two. We're going to we're going to keep doing some, you know, some new things. But if you think about the way it was done, it didn't. It enhanced the original play. It made it more fun to play. And I think that's the key is you know enhance the shots, enhance the rules, and you know let Melvin do what Melvin does with art and sculpts. Because i mean i mean on Circus Voltaire, it has the GI light underneath or the RGB lights underneath actually illuminate these crystal balls on the outlanes and the sculpts. And I mean, it's really cool. And there's there's the other ones, there's these there's these changeable, you can even move them around. um
Speaker: I call them spotlights and it doesn't actually spot anything, but enough light comes through it. It looks like, you know, these lit spotlights, like you would see at a circus. So, I mean, really creative in some of these sculpts, fully sculpted and not, you know, one of the, one things that I think in the past, and by the way, 3d printing is getting a lot better. um But, you know, um you know, all of our parts are sculpted, you know, until we feel like it could be at ever at detail that we want to offer. And we want,
Speaker: feel like like again, we're making collectors games. When we sell our ringmaster edition, it will show up in arcades for sure. But you know, we want it something that collectors can put in their homes.
Speaker: And I mean, if if you look at the game, I mean, I always said, if you've got a Valley Williams lineup, especially with the scrolls and the topper and the, and the art, it's a cornerstone, right? You're not going to stuff it in between, you know, a couple of old Valley Williams games. It's going to be one that kind of sits on the end. Um,
Speaker: You know, I actually do that with my i may have to move it around. I got to figure out my spacing, but I do that with my old John C right. I mean, it it deserves this sort of because of the lights. it It needs its own space to breathe. And I think this game is kind of kind of like that um in that regard.
Speaker: Yeah, Melvin Melvin really pushed hard on creative on this. I mean, the sculpts are I don't even know how those sculpts are made, to be honest with you we've got We've got everything on our website if you guys want to check it out. But I also want to give a a shout out to to Brian Allen. I mean, he he got involved in January. he He started working with Melvin in March when Melvin joined. And those guys really like...
Speaker: you know worked really hard to get it where it's at, and everything sings really nicely together. I mean, with every every pinball machine, it's like you've got to see it in person to really, really experience it. um But there's just so much detail. I mean, the play field, the level of detail you know on modern play fields is nothing like it was then. And then for everything that he brought into it,
Speaker: Translight. It's a really great package. So definitely shout out to Brian on his hard work. Yeah, and I will say, Brian, what he did that was, you know, we talked about this because i you know, we really wanted to highlight it's a ringmaster edition. And some people are like, well, Madame Voltaire was, you know, the whole story is that she was actually behind the ringmaster, right? She has the mask. People said, well, you took that away. I said, actually, look at Brian's art because the ringmaster is connected through a spring to on the on the trans light to Madame Voltaire. So they it it actually pays homage to the original
Speaker: and doesn't change the story, but instead of holding a mask, she is the ringmaster connected through these, this spring. So, you know, it's funny people look at it and they haven't really maybe paid attention to the detail that, that the, you know, that Brian put into thinking about how making sure we still told the same story in the gameplay.
Speaker: Well, know, one, one thing it is missing though, from the Brian Allen artwork, Where is John Papaduke in it and his tight man on the back? Oh my gosh. You know, we've we've got some photos ah that we're going to share with you guys at some point before Expo. You will see John again. um But I think, I don't know, Brian, we were talking about, is this it for John and Melvin? are we Are we cutting those guys off or what's what's what's the story there?
Speaker: Okay, so so this is important because people are oh, Melvin's coming, bringing another Papaduke. Well, that we were working on Circus Voltaire and it was set up before Melvin joined. So Melvin's like, oh, you're going to make me do a Papaduke. But yeah, I think we're probably, the next game will not, the next remake will not be a John Papaduke game. I will that's the biggest hint you're going to get. um So um we're already working on that. And it's going to be a really, really nice reimagined version that I think people are really going to like. And I'm super excited about our first big license that's going to come out. um We actually have a couple on in the hopper. So um we're really excited about that as well. Not not here to
Speaker: people always say, Brian, you're a horrible salesperson. You should never talk about future stuff while you're selling your current game. But, but, ah but, you know, we, we look at it like we're probably going to be more, my whole thing is I want to be transparent. People say, oh, you got to do all these NDAs and I had stuff. I mean, at some point,
Speaker: You know, if I'm a collector, i kind of want to know or at least have an idea what's coming a little in advance so i can decide, hey, is that something I'm going to want in my lineup? It may hurt us a little bit, but I think in the long run, i think people will, you know, not every game's for everybody. Right. But if that game is for you and that title is for you, having a little bit of heads up, you know, um is probably a good thing.
Speaker: At the very bottom of your page, I've been checking out on AmericanPinball.com slash Circus Voltaire. If you go down to the very bottom, there's a scene called allocation tickets. They look really cool. What are these?
Speaker: Yeah, so we're always trying to be innovative and and do new things. This is actually something our president, Ron Lindeman, came up with. And it's really meant to kind of serve a couple of purposes. So one, when you've got a product like circus volterra ringmaster limited to 772 units uh when you're working with dealers you know you're you're setting what's called an allocation so they're going to take you know say they're going to take 10 ringmasters and 10 classics um there is going to be some period of time between when those deposits are taken and when those ship um so what dealers are going to get dealers distributors are going to get
Speaker: these holographic serialized stickers called allocation tickets. There's going to be one for Ringmaster and one for the classic. And when you put down your deposit, you're going to be mailed that sticker.
Speaker: And what it really does is it creates kind of an agreement between you and the dealer that they have the allocation to give you because they only have so many serialized tickets. And then, you know, you have an official allocation um and that creates, you know, ah a bond per se of that, which is really important because because there has been cases and you saw this with Beetlejuice and Winchester where there's not There's a lot of people hitting up many, many dealers. They don't know if they really have a spot. There's a lot of movement of money. So it's just as much for the consumer as for the dealers to kind of keep that in check. It's not designed in any way to keep you from reselling your deposit to somebody else.
Speaker: If you lose the ticket, you can get a new one. We'll just anyone. And then it's going to stick on the back of your game. So it's going to be kind of a nice memento. It will be a sticker of that.
Speaker: And in the case of Expo this year, you can actually bring that to Expo for a free gift. So that's just kind of a nice aside. We're also going to evolve it over time. we're We're planning on keeping it, but we're welcome to feedback. We're going to see how it goes. ah But it's it's just a fun way to kind of create that and and and and create that to be an official deposit.
Speaker: Brian, before we started recording, i mean you kind of alluded to this during the podcast. You've pretty much revamped this whole company from, from top to bottom. What made you decide just not to rename it and just overhaul everything?
Speaker: Yeah, that was, that there was a big, you know, question, you know, I, first of all, I, I kind of, like I mean, I like the American pinball name. I think there's brand equity there. Um, you know, I think it's a cool name. So I was like, I really didn't want to get rid of the name. Um, but, um, you know, I think we've we've gone to a logo, we've kind of gotten a new sort of makeover and decided just to keep the name and do sort of a rebrand. But, um,
Speaker: You know, I know i know there are a lot of people that historically have rooted for American Pinball. Unfortunately, you know, there were some decisions that were made that just, you know, and I don't think it was necessarily been a quality build thing or anything like that. I think it was just more of um just some missteps about how the market was approached and lack of capital and lack leadership and things like that. So, you know, I i I decided to, I mean, better worse, I decided to keep the name. um But the reboot really, um and by the way, we've kept some really good key people.
Speaker: There were some people that are there that stuck through this thick and thin. mean, I you know i think of Ron and you know Ron was literally... taking no salary, you know, trying to just keep the company alive and selling. I mean, can you imagine waking up every day and trying to see if you can sell another three Berry Berry O's barbecue to keep the, keep the company going? I mean, I'm like, I give him all the div. I mean, all the respect in the world. He, he made that his personal effort to keep the company alive. And, you know, and when I met Ron, I'm like, this is the kind of guy I want working for me.
Speaker: um somebody that has that level of of dedication. And so we have kept some key people. um We've just kept the ones that matter and the ones we feel like fit our culture.
Speaker: So my out the culture is like so important to me. You know, it's, you know, it can make or break a company and toxicity and, and really it's not so much that it's, it's like a mindset of, you know, I'm here just punching a ticket every day.
Speaker: And, you know, that's not the kind of people we want. That's not the kind of culture we want to bring because what we're doing is important. And, um you know, we, we want to, I think that bleeds over that enthusiasm, not just with your employees, but it carries all the way through to your customers and the people that, you You know, I always believe that people buy from people.
Speaker: And, you know, I don't know how many people since I've started the company have said, Brian, you know, I love what you're doing. I'm going to buy my first AP game. And by the way, I take that really seriously because i'm I'm now putting my name and my reputation behind what we're delivering. And that's why, you know, we really are being diligent about making sure we do this right.
Speaker: Even though I can be a bit of a cowboy, i mean, it's, you know, I can't help it. It's my, you know, I'm from West Texas, so I guess. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm from, Scott and I are from Utah. We understand. Yeah, you get it. Yeah. yeah yeah Y'all are, you're. Yeah, we.
Speaker: we're We're spending a lot of time building the brand. We also, as Brian mentioned, ah support customer support's really critical for us. We've recently hired Renz, who was a former head of support for Dutch Pinball.
Speaker: um So even even you know geographically having someone in a completely different time zone will provide benefit even to US customers, because a lot of people are are operating at night and Renz is highly engaged on Pinside.
Speaker: But we're we're really proud of American Pinball. I mean, we didn't want to be known as the company. It's like, oh, that's that company that was American Pinball. it's like, no, we are American Pinball. ah We're very proud of some of the titles that we still have in our lineup. I mean, Hot Wheels is an amazing game. It came out during COVID, probably never got the that what it was really due. But they've so they sold...
Speaker: ah north of 2,000 titles of that game. I mean, oh there's like really well with it. Yeah. So um we hope people, you know, check those games out, even if they're on location. But we are, of course, well, not of course, but we are moving on from all of that as well.
Speaker: um You know, you saw the last 100 GTFs, you saw the last 100 Houdini's. I don't think we're going to be doing that for any more, Brian. is this Is that it? That is. Yeah. we are We are thankful for everyone who's picked those up, um but we are going to be building lots of new things going forward for sure.
Speaker: Yeah. And i think just that what we did with the code, I mean, I think that just, we want to let the community know, look, we're, we're, We are doing a reboot, but we still bought those assets. And that means we have to stand behind those assets. I mean, I've done, i mean, whether that even be to some some extent with even making some things right with vendors. I mean, there was a lot of things that needed to be cleaned up.
Speaker: We're beyond that now. I think we're, all that's in the rear view mirror. So, you know, we have, ah i think we have a ah really bright future and, you know, I, I will say this first, thank you guys for having us on this show.
Speaker: It means a lot for you guys to invite us and, and really, you know, highlight a CV. We're very excited about that, but I think, you know, I really, I don't, when don't get on these very often, I just, I do like to thank all the people out there that have been so encouraging to me and, and our staff and have said, Hey, we're rooting for you guys. Thank you for you know being committed to pinball. Thank you for you know trying to get American in a place where you know i think more more companies out there, the better. People say, oh, do have my i don't mind competition. i think you know it makes us all better. And we're all trying to make great products. As you can see, it's an insane year.
Speaker: um you know i wish st Stern the best on their new release. I know that's coming out soon. And you know I think there's something for everybody. So we hope you get to try come to Expo, come see us. We'll have some giveaways and come play CV in person. It's it's one of those games that you all, I mean, when you see it in person, you know video and and and And pictures don't don't do it justice. it's It's a stunning game and we're super excited. So thank you guys. I just want to thank you guys for your time. and We appreciate you coming on. Yeah, you know, it's been amazing having you on. i
Speaker: I feel so much better now moving into the new era with American. I always like supporting pinball and ah Circus Volterra, as i was telling you, Brian, before we started this, it is the first game I played when I got into pinball and it is just amazing. and so with all the changes you guys are making, I feel more confident if I decide to purchase this game, I feel more confident going into your product and and putting it in my game room. So, ah Scott, you got anything before we wrap this all up?
Speaker: Well, did you want to talk about ordering hats? Yeah, let's hurry and talk about ordering hats and then ah let's let's close this out. Or I guess I could. I've got the list almost done. We're going to get the list together. We're to be doing our green and red hats again. ah the The list will go till the beginning of October because if you're coming to Expo, we will be ah I'll bring them with me don't to pay for shipping, but you still are allowed to have them shipped to you too. it doesn't matter if you're here in America or outside. We'll work on that when we get to that point.
Speaker: um and and And Don from Don's Pinball Podcast, man, he he's hooking us up with some swag. we might be so We might be selling these bad boys. i don't know exactly what going them just yet, but we'll we'll figure it out probably by by next week. Don's probably going to buy all those and just care of himself. That looks like a Don thing to me.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a big medallion, by the way. It's a big medallion. I feel like Flava Flay.
Speaker: But yeah, we got those coming up. But ah if you if you want people to get a hold of you, Rob or Brian, what's the best way to get a hold of you? Yeah, we're Rob, Brian with a Y at American Pinball. um we We launched a new website recently. We've got some great photography up there. We did a blog post that gets into a ton of detail on all the stuff we talked about for Circus. So check that out.
Speaker: Facebook, Instagram, Pinside, all the good stuff. yeah And if you want to buy a machine, i can't you know i got it you know we don't we don't we're we do not sell machines directly. We only sell through our distribution network. um And so if you do want to buy a machine though, you can come to our website. You can say, hey, I'm interested in this machine. I'm interested Circus Voltaire. I want a GTF Victory, whatever. And when we get it, if you say, I don't know a dealer, we'll try and find and marry up with a dealer in your area.
Speaker: um um you know, that can help you out. And so, you know, we ah we encourage you to do that. um And, you know, we we'll make sure that someone gets in touch with you immediately if if you're you're interested in buying a game.
Speaker: Or we would recommend flipping out pinball as well. Yeah. Zach's great. I mean, I, I sense we send stuff to Zach all the time. Zach's fantastic. I mean, he's been a really big supporter and, um, you know, um, he and I had a great conversation the other day about, you know, back and forth about, about CV even, you Zach's great. He'll tell you what you need to do better. And, and, um, you know, but we're, we, one thing we both, when we first like kind of took started the company, he was like, Brian, um,
Speaker: you know you'll find that we're going to really support and get behind you guys. And we're excited about what you're doing. So I predict i love Zach. Good call out for Zach. Also, you lot of other dealers we have as well. And we're just we're we're really pleased with the people who are supporting us. So thank you.
Speaker: Awesome. If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com. We are at loser kid pinball on all the socials, silver ball swag. If you like the Jersey whatnot, silver ball swag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: Scott, give us our final words. You know I'm, I can't make it to expo because i have a family event, but Josh is going to be there. So we're all excited about expo. We have I expo previews coming up, but absolutely. I'm excited to go play circus Voltaire. And I want to hear what you guys want to see in circus Voltaire.
Speaker: you
