Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain... Scott Larson. And Scott, you know what? just chit-chatting today. where You had an event full-time out at Stern. There's been a new game released. It's been it's actually been pretty pretty crazy, everything that's been going on this last little bit. But um if you want Fallout, or actually, you got Fallout, didn't you? I did get Fallout. I got i got an LE. I jumped on. I saw it, and I said, I want to get this before it sells out. So... contact exact at flipping out pinball and I was able to get it now I I know that at this point they are all sold out but uh if you want anything else if you want the follow-up premium if you want all the accessories that are going to be announced likely soon just reach out to them they've always had had my back and been able to give me good things so check them out
Speaker: I mean, let's just dive right into this. So fall out, you fly out, you get there. The first thing you told me that kind of threw you for a loop is you walk to the front doors and typically that front four your area is filled with pinball machines you can play.
Speaker: Yep. And there was something else there. There were tons of Costco Pokemons. So it was, it was basically like, and it's like okay. For context, this place is big.
Speaker: It's, it's like, I, okay. I'm just kind of guessing here, but it's like half a football field, like that big entrance area. yeah Yeah, i I bet you're right. I almost say it's a little bigger, but no, I agree with you. It's pretty big. It may be, but it's a giant area. And when when you go in, they had just rows and rows of Pokemon. And they said that when they placed the order, Costco, it's clockwork. They're like, we need this many. And they're they're coming to pick them up right now.
Speaker: So it's it was it was completely flooded with that, which, hey, good for them. Because, you know, we've always tried to find where's that balance of where's that and that new blood in pinball. And in Costco, i kate I'm sure you felt the same way, Josh. How many people, when they saw that in Costco, did they text you a picture of it?
Speaker: Because I know I got a few. Like at work, people would be like, hey, I saw i saw a pinball machine at Costco. And I'm like, yeah, that's ah that's the Pokemon machine, yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, i i played one yesterday in Costco. yeah And the whole time, it's just me and Carter, we only played two games.
Speaker: And the person before us, they only played one ball. The husband turned to the wife, pulled out his wallet, pulled out his credit card. He's like, I'm going to grab one of these right now. And then as we were playing, there was... mold Did you say you'll help them set it up?
Speaker: Because you should. No. But we had multiple people stop and look. Is that a Pokemon pinball machine? Like, it was insane. And granted, it's like right you walk in. So it's eye candy. But still, i I've seen the Star Wars I saw the Jurassic Park while it was in Costco. No way did it turn heads like this Pokemon one is. It's insane.
Speaker: i I need to remind myself that Pokemon is way bigger than I anticipated. I went to the pharmacy to fill to fill like a prescription and they had Pokemon cards there.
Speaker: We were looking at today because we're like, what's the average demographic of like well the average age of a player? Right. And it's like, oh, it depends. Like if if you're talking like Pokemon, the video games, it's like 35 ish.
Speaker: Yeah. But like if you're talking Pokemon Go, it's more like 35, like 32 to like 45. It's pretty window. it's a pretty big window Well, I told you, i you know, i work in a hospital and work in OB. And one of the funniest stories I had where I usually just ask people like chit chatting when I'm getting them ready.
Speaker: And I said, ah so how'd you guys meet? And he said he was playing Pokemon go. And he went to an area that there was supposed to be a limited Pokemon there. And he saw a girl walking around with her phone. And he said, I bet she's playing Pokemon. And so he went up and the, and, and nine months later they have a baby. So good for them.
Speaker: Oh, that's quite the abrupt. ah okay They probably, they you know, they dated and got married and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's, ah but it's just kind of funny that they, that, you know, their meetup story is we were trying to catch Pokemon. So we catch, we caught each other. So that is pretty awesome though, but it's great. So you, you saw all these Pokemon there you're like, okay, well usually like when we went to the John wick, they have like 20 or 30 of them in that four year area that we could play. Right. The free stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And then they have pushed up against the wall. They like, all of them were pushed up against the wall and unplugged. Oh, you couldn't play any of those? No, no. They were all pushed up against the wall and unplugged. In in the front, they had about six. And they had um they had Pokemon. They had the Pokemon, um the the premium, and I think the pro. They also had a Costco edition there. They had Star Wars, I think.
Speaker: And then they had a Walking Dead remake. And that was kind of all that was out there, really. So how many actual fallouts were there that you could play? Okay, this is kind of the downside um because they only had three fallouts.
Speaker: They had a pro, a premium, and an LE. And the challenge with that is that you had probably like 45 people there and And now to their credit, here's here's ka here's the the the things that they did great on and things that they they probably can improve in the future. okay And by the way, I'm thankful for Stern for doing these. They've heard us saying that it's so much easier for us to talk about their machines when they give us access to the machines to play and they get they give us a presentation.
Speaker: So we went there first and um George, he he sets up this ah thiss little presentation. And he talks about, okay, this is a gave screenshots. This is kind of the update of Stern. Like this is where we're going. This is a, you know, where, where Pokemon's huge. We're going into Costco. Then he talked about fallout and he's like, okay, here's the background and follow It's a video game franchise. That's been there for a while. And now they have the, the Amazon prime series, ah which I think has two seasons so far. Correct. yeah Two seasons so far. And okay. It, it
Speaker: It's taken off and ah he gave, he gave a lot of these demographic, these numbers, which were pretty impressive about like it's over a hundred million games sold and like 80 million have seen the fallout series. So it was really, this is where he's laying the groundwork. Hey, this is why we're doing this game. Also talked about the head of Bethesda is a big, and he's kind of like their version of George Gomez. Okay.
Speaker: But think about in video games, video games is a multi-billion dollar industry. And so it's it is like George Gomez on steroids and he is a pinball fan.
Speaker: So he he likes pinball and he was really interested in collaborating on the game, which that that can be a two-edged sword, right? um You can have multiple ways that you are working with a license. One, you can work with a license that is notoriously difficult to work with.
Speaker: You know, and we've all heard the stories of the the bond where they're they're aggressively jealous of how their intellectual property is is displayed. And so it can be very difficult to get things greenlit.
Speaker: um The next version is like Metallica saying, Hey, we want a cool pinball machine. Go ahead and do it. And kind of gives them free reign. Okay. This is almost the next level where the head of Bethesda, and I'm sorry, my, his name is escaping me, Josh. I don't know if you know. Todd Howard. so taughtd Yeah. He's the executive producer there at at Bethesda. And he was the one who was like, you guys should consider doing this. You guys should consider incorporating this. yeah This is the, And he really wanted the l LE to look like the the way it is. And so that was almost like a collaborative thing where it was, he was part of the group, but he was helping out with it. So that's the background on follow. Now, ah then they took us to the, the area ah showed the the three games. And then we played for probably about hour and a half or so.
Speaker: Then they took the LE and they put it off to a room and they had a scheduled so we can all get 20 minutes on the game ah exclusively.
Speaker: So I actually went and went in and I, I was one of the first ones to do it because they had very graciously scheduled an interview with Keith, Rick and Harrison.
Speaker: And, we were able to ah to do that. So they wanted to get me on the game first. So that was super nice. Well, and what's crazy for you is they let you behind the secret area. Well, okay. Yeah, we were in the first room. Don't be shy now. You've got stern secrets, you know. Okay, I was very good. Yeah, we went to the Flight 2000 room. But, know, we went directly there. I didn't snoop around. But it was... They didn't bound and gag you and blindfold you off. No, they didn't. They were very gracious to give us a private backroom. It was actually air conditioned back there, which was super nice.
Speaker: And Zach Sharp is really good at drawing Garfield. So that's why he drew a Garfield on the line. Okay. Because that was in the comments. Yeah, people were like, is Garfield going fill? It's like, no, Zach Sharp just knows how to draw Garfield. So it was just kind of funny.
Speaker: Um, so we did that now. Okay. Ways they can improve it. So that the downside is they took us, they took the Ellie over and then there's a room of about 45 people with two games.
Speaker: One's a pro one's a premium. So everyone and wanted to play the premium because the, that had all seven max. It was the complete version of the game.
Speaker: And, um, And in the Pro is... Okay, the Pro is still very good. I will say it's very good. You're obviously not going to get the same um the the same complete package with the Pro because they had to take out mechs. They had seven mechs in the original game in in the pro in the premium and LE.
Speaker: You're not going to get seven mechs for a Pro price. So they did they they took out, I think, like four mechs. It's still a complete game. The funny thing is if yeah look at most games... How many pros have more than one mech?
Speaker: Really? Not many. I mean, King Kong behind me, I don't know if he even really has for a mech. You know what i'm saying? It's more. Yeah. yeah So, so that's, I, I'm, I'm letting you know that the pro is still an amazing presentation of it. Yes. They did look at it. They did increase the, the bomb.
Speaker: i I'm suspecting they were saying, okay, let us look at what we can do with a little more bomb because other companies are doing more eye candy underneath, right?
Speaker: And this is, again, this is me behind the scenes. This is me analyzing what's going on. So if you look at a lot of a lot of companies, they put a lot more three d sculpts and a lot more um under the glass to fill out the game.
Speaker: yeah That doesn't necessarily contribute to the the play of the game. If you look at a lot of these, a lot of them them are eye candy and you could probably strip them out and play the game without the the sculpt in there and still get the same experience. You probably wouldn't get the same eye candy, but the flow would be exactly the same.
Speaker: um Well, and that's one thing, too, because like I was listening to a couple of people that they like they didn't fully understand, like why there was so much hype behind Fallout. Right. They saw the game and was like, this is it like this is and and and this is what I explained to them. um I think the reason Fallout passes the sniff test. Right. like I think there is a invisible sniff test. Us as been pinball enthusiasts or anyone that buy it is buying pinball.
Speaker: sees when they see a play field, right? And I think it's because the mechs were noticeable. They all interacted with the ball, right? We talked about this in in the interview. And I think when people, anyone can install, ah i hate to use this analogy, but a cake topper, right? When the Toy Story Parts came out. They looked like cake toppers that you could buy. they weren't They weren't, but they did look like it. Yes. Correct. and But um someone can add that and they feel very confident in putting one screw or two screws in to hold that in, right? And an LED light. Yeah.
Speaker: Correct. If you can make a mech that is under the glass that interacts with the ball, but it's still eye candy, like the vault door which or like, like in portal, like the companion cubes, like it's, it's one of those things. It's, it's the trunk and a theater of magic, right? Like yeah it's that I want to know what that does. It looks interesting and it doesn't get old over time. It's the, it's the skyscraper on Godzilla.
Speaker: um I think when you do that versus a ball lock, like, I'm not going to, dog I don't want to dog on King Kong, but like King Kong subway is cool. What is essentially a ball lock Avengers? The subway is just a ball physical ball lock. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, yeah, it interacts with the ball quote unquote, but it's not, it's not flashy. It's not like it feels like a big payoff. It's not dynamic. Yeah.
Speaker: Correct. Yeah. And so when you look at, and this is where Harry Potter, like the staircase mechanism is so great because it, uh, it dynamically moves the ball around and, you know it's the same thing with the, with the skyscraper in Godzilla.
Speaker: Because depending on the position of it, the ball path is different. Okay. But the, I'm sorry, I don't know that, that wrist thing that they have in fallout. What's it called? The boy.
Speaker: The pip boy. Yes. So that pip boy not only has all these diverters in there, which the ball can go about four different ways when it goes in there. And a magnet and the magnet. Absolutely. And the magnet. And on top of that, it has the LCD screen that doesn't feel like you glued a cell phone underneath.
Speaker: Because a lot of times, let's be honest, a lot of times you see a you know some sort of mini display in underneath the glass. And it kind of looks like they just miniaturized some sort of cell phone and put it under there.
Speaker: And in some ways it it kind of takes away from it because it doesn't feel like it's part of the world. It feels like you're looking down at your phone. that That was my criticism with, ah with Toy Story is it looked like there's a, there's an iPod. Oh, the giant iPad. Yeah. It's like an iPad. Yeah. It's like a, sorry, not an iPad mini, like, but like a literal iPad in there, which I mean, it's big, but it doesn't really feel like it's part of the Toy Story universe.
Speaker: I get you. But the Pip-Boy, it does. So, okay. Now, here's the downside. The downside is you have two machines, 45 people. And I guess everybody has their own way of generating content or interacting with it. I'll tell you my style and I'll just leave it at that. My style is, i know there's 45 people here.
Speaker: I'm trying to get my experience. And so my approach was I'm going up to the game and like I was trying to shoot the rocket one time. I was picking one, one shot that I was trying to interact with. Okay. I'm trying to load the rocket. I'm trying to shoot it. I'm trying to get that. Or, okay, now I'm trying to to engage the right side. You know, I trap up real quick. I take a few shots, but I wasn't, it was sloppy play because all I'm trying to do is get a vibe for what I'm going to talk about. Because that's the whole purpose of me being there is to get enough exposure to it to talk.
Speaker: So I would say generally my ball times were less than two minutes. Maybe if you got a multi-ball, they could be pushed up to three. But I was trying to just get through it. um But that doesn't always happen when you have one machine that everybody wants to play and there's 45 people waiting.
Speaker: So some people had significantly longer ball times. So if ah my thoughts are in the future, if they were to do this again, which I think this is a big success for them, I would add at least two premiums, at least two, maybe one pro, two premiums.
Speaker: and And that way people can cycle through it a little easier. Yeah. Because if you, um, because otherwise it can, you can kind of stand around waiting that there's 45 people waiting for one premium.
Speaker: Uh, Again, that's a small criticism and that's probably more to do with everybody who's attending. So yeah, if there's one thing that I would um just encourage them to do is have two two premiums and maybe a gentle hint to say, hey, just be aware that other people are there and you want to keep your ball times around two or three minutes.
Speaker: I think, i i do think that maybe they'd have to have someone sitting there from Stern that's got a timer. You get five minutes, whether you're done or not. you know what I'm saying? Here's the thing. It's just being aware about like being aware. Yeah, be aware. I think the other thing, too, is is because I was like, why did they have so few? Because like when we did John Wick, it was they had a lot there. It seemed like you had your own machine that you could play almost the whole night. yeah I think with PAX West, I think they were trying to get a ton these out the door, and they probably didn't account for i I just don't know. That's why i'm like, I think it was a a series of misfortunate events, right? Like, I think it just was like this build up to a whirlwind of of a crap storm.
Speaker: and Well, okay. I wouldn't say a crap storm. I would say probably ah more people attended than maybe anticipated. That could be one thing. True.
Speaker: ah Two, the entire area, that front area was converted to storage. And so they had limited space, period. And so I think both of those together may have made it a little more challenging. Now, I am still, that that is a minor criticism.
Speaker: I would say this was still universally well-received. Everybody had a good time at the reveal party. And it was very generous of Stern to invite us to their home, as they say.
Speaker: Um, no, I agree with you. I wasn't there. i mean, I've definitely heard it from other content creators. I do think that, uh, I, I did hear, we've never had this officially confirmed, but, uh, I was listening to retro Ralph and Jamie Burchill and kill Hernandez with, uh, the pinball round table and, retro Ralph had said that you're there allowing up to three people per person that visits. So you can have three guests.
Speaker: And it's funny because like I've never asked because we used to offer to take people with us at least part of our Patreon. um But when they started having us sign NDAs, I didn't feel like I was comfortable with saying, hey.
Speaker: Right. You know what I'm saying? Well, I also took it as like an NDA. They may want to focus the amount of people who are there to people who are generating the content.
Speaker: Correct. But okay, that's just that's just our our take. that And I get it. Like when you're with – like when you're Retro Ralph, you have Mason with you. Like Mason does a great job. But he's your camera guy. He's like helping me in the editing and stuff like that. So I get like having that kind of guest.
Speaker: But um yeah, that's why – Patreon members, like, yeah, that's why we haven't been pushing as much between the NDAs and stuff like that. Well, we didn't do it this time because one, it was so last minute. Two, there was an NDA where they did a...
Speaker: It was a, hey, a total moratorium on anything. And I took that seriously. I went there. i i took a whole bunch of notes. I typed up a sheet of notes to Josh when when he was doing the presentation. I sent him off to Josh. But we didn't release anything until that moratorium. And it's ah because we respect those.
Speaker: Yep, I agree. um i just want to, before we move on, Pokemon got an update. I'm really genuinely, I really want to love this game. yeah And i want to play this update because I hear it's almost like stern Star Trek rules where it's like all the Pokemon are are one layer, but like in in Star Trek, each mode can go deeper, right?
Speaker: So there's three stack levels. And I love that code. Yeah, I never knew, i was never going to get to five year mission unless I take the glass off. but like I don't really have a fan layout in my collection so it would be nice to have a family out that it appeals to people that come over. um i do fear that it would get really boring for me quickly from what I've already played but if it does have that depth there now I really want to give this a second try because like I just this is a thing that really does speak to me and I'm excited for this so um yeah that's just my thoughts on that I didn't know if you'd heard anything about this Scott. Yeah, I i think it's it is one of those things where absolutely it's taking it ah to, it's it's walking that line of we are trying to build a game for everybody and everybody knows how to play a fan layout.
Speaker: Even if you've never played pinball, you can figure it out really quickly. Adding a third and fourth flipper really complicate things. I understand why they wanted to make this as accessible to everybody.
Speaker: i agree. ah Yes, I actually have a few fan layouts in my, my actually my almost my entire wall against me that you're not seeing. Talca, Two Flipper, Medieval Madness, Two Flipper. um um Then I have Monster Bash, Two Flipper.
Speaker: and And Cactus Canyon, that too i gets... it just It is what it is, but people are comfortable with that. So i I understand why they do that. Now, ah remind me, Josh, who is finalizing the rules for Pokemon?
Speaker: I want to say it's Mike Vinicor. I need to double check. Like, don't quote me on that just yet. Right. But I guarantee Mike's getting help from, I'm suspecting there's a, you know, there's a lot of high end coders there. um You know, Tanya's there, Rayday's there, Elizabeth there. Like all these are going to be helping out with this. I think it's going to be more of a collaborative ah process because Pokemon is so big. It's one of those too big to forget about licenses.
Speaker: Tanya Kleiss is actually helping. I think Mike's also helping wrap up. I think somebody suspected it was Tanya who was helping out. Remember, Tanya. Andrew Wilking, Josh Henderson, and Mitch Deason. There's a handful of them on here.
Speaker: Yeah. So there's a lot. This is going to be a collaborative process. Again, this game is too big to forget about. Oh yeah. Well, in our good friend, Joel Engelberth did an ah an amazing interview. If you haven't checked it out, go over to the flipping out channel. We did a one with George Gomez and he's like, this is here to stay. It's an evergreen.
Speaker: We are going to put everything we can. We were actually holding back with what we put, we could have put in there because we want to keep working on it. And so I'm excited to see where this goes. And I may, ah it's funny. Cause like I, we did our episode last time and I kind of went off on like, if this is all Pokemon is going to be, I'm really disappointed. And it was even like a week later, George Gomez puts out a post. It's like, we have the Pokedex. They can't like call it the Pokedex because we're ever licensing now, but like that's coming out and we have bunch more code coming out in the next week by the end of September or the end of like August, right? It was right before fallout. So I was like, oh, oh, cool. Okay. But ah Josh, your criticism was correct.
Speaker: Your criticism is saying, Hey, this is a huge license. I want more from it. And so, so it's it's not like you were being mean. You were just being blunt that that's how it is.
Speaker: Do you think we'll see a remake at expo? Like we have the last three years or has it only been two now walking dead Metallica. may it's me too ill i'll say a solid claiming it's acdc is yeah is the supposed rumor here is the um so we had ah metallica come out and metallica okay from my it was a x-men that year yes yeah okay now here's the challenge metallica came out and took a lot of the wind out of x-men
Speaker: Now, X-Men already has a few challenges associated with it. has a great layout if it is dialed in correctly, but it's kind of hard to dial that in correctly. um Just with it with with the average guy playing it. When I played it at Stern, it was dialed in correctly because obviously they have people who know how to dial it in.
Speaker: So Metallica came out and then last year they had, ah it was Star Wars. and was Was it Star Wars and? Yes.
Speaker: And Walking Dead. Star Wars and Walking Dead. Because Borg released two games in less yeah than 30 days. Gosh, John, how did you do that? um that's So the challenge is it felt like the focus was diluted from Stern when you had two releases. So you had Metallica come out. That took a lot of X-Men.
Speaker: It seemed like um Walking Dead and Star Wars, it was like they were both kind of pushed and it didn't feel like one took precedent over the other.
Speaker: Well, now you have basically a premium, like like a ah kind of a Batman 66 type scenario where you're you're you have a cornerstone plus. It's like a special version that's a higher price, right?
Speaker: um And this is a, it's well received. So do you want to take any of that bling away from Fallout when you're going to be having expo in, in what? Three weeks, four weeks.
Speaker: Yeah. About three weeks, two and a half weeks, somewhere out there. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a good chance, right? There's a good chance, but, but fallout is doing so well. I think they may pull it back or hold it, hold back.
Speaker: Maybe, but they do have scheduled timelines that they have to meet too. I think this was another thing that Gomez had talked about in that interview was, is like, When we say we're going to do something, we have to do it. and you know there's There's repercussions that come with it. If we don't meet those deadlines, they can pull the plug. And then we have a whole other series of issues on top of that.
Speaker: That's true. But sometimes things are moved around. And we know that X-Men was moved ahead of D&D. And so there are ways of massaging the ah the releases. But they may also just take it as...
Speaker: hey, this is Expo. This is a big deal. And we would rather have take two cracks at the ball as opposed to one. And if we have two major things, it'll take the the wind out of a lot of people's sails.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true. So you could look at it two ways. if it's If it is ACDC, like it is rumored, then people know what ACDC is. It's like Metallica. People know what Metallica is. And so if you like Metallica, then you're going to like the remastered. If you like ACDC, you're probably going to really like the remastered.
Speaker: Yep. No, I agree. So, I mean, Expos around the corner, obviously. Let's kind of let's kind of go through the ah other manufacturers as well, see what we're going to see. ah Jersey Jack just did Sonic here a couple months ago. It's being received well.
Speaker: I think people are happy with the way um it's laid out, how the upper play field plays. um There was two videos this last, I want to say, about two weeks. Kerry Hardy did one on kind of what he felt like Sonic should still add into it and some of the the direction they could change, mostly with audio package and with the way that lines up with some of the stuff that occurs in that game. and then cool toy doug over at cool toy if you haven't checked out his video go check it out it's it's awesome because he went and actually took the code and took retro game ideas and stuck them in the game you're not playing just a sonic you can play his knuckles as tails you know it's putting in those classic uh level sounds and theme musics from those levels it's it's really really well done if you got 10 minutes go watch doug's video over there at cool toy because it's pretty awesome but
Speaker: This is still a game I haven't got my hands on. Have you yet, yet Scott? No, I didn't. i I was hoping to go that night when I was in Chicago and go over to yeah um the Capitol or go to one in Logan's or whatever.
Speaker: and and play it. But I had a meeting for for my Guatemala trip that night. And so I ended up going back to the hotel and just recording that. ah So i I didn't get a chance to play it. I still am, but I'm still in the dark on it. i would like to find one locally and play it, but so far I haven't heard of one.
Speaker: We did actually get invited over to a fan of our show's house. And I don't want to call him out publicly. But um we're going we got to set that up and go over and play that. um Yeah. So yeah I'd like to know more. um I will also. There's one actually at Nickel Mania over in West Jordan. Oh, is there? Actually too. yeah we all head up Yes. um The, the one question I have is that it's easy to do a, basically a fan version of something because you don't have to deal with licensing constraints.
Speaker: And that, and that's the challenge. Like there, there's a lot of behind the scenes action, you know, like Beatles. Hey, guess what? I would have loved to have had like 40 Beatles songs in there. You know, I'm guessing on Led Zeppelin people want stairway to heaven. You know, it's, it's things like that, that makes it, um,
Speaker: yeah yeah There are ultimately, and this is what George said, ultimately the decision is up to the licensor 100% on things. And so if that's the direction that the licensor wanted to go, then JJP is, that's what they have to do.
Speaker: I'm deferring any sort of judgment. I hear it's fun. I hear it's a lot of fun. Yeah, people are happy way it shoots everything. want to know more on it. Yeah, same here. we'll have We'll have to team up and go play a a couple games.
Speaker: Yeah, next time you're up, we'll go up to Nickel Mania. I guess worst case scenario, i the soonest I play it's Expo. like the Or the latest I play it is Expo, right? like um But yeah, I'm excited for it. ah Barrels of Fun, Bon Jovi.
Speaker: This is going to be the first time. Actually, i think, has it been played at a show yet? Yes. It has been at a couple shows. Yes, because that's when they sold out. That's when they sold out. Yeah, there are people are really loving this game. It shoots really well. David Van Ness did a great job of doing the design of the layout.
Speaker: um Yeah, I'm hearing great things. Oh, George Fisher, friend of the show. He yeah he went. They had a Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo and he was there and ah he said he it shot really well. He really enjoyed it.
Speaker: So it's ah you know, it's it's one of those fun summer popcorn games. where it's like it it knows exactly what it is. It's like, hey, you go to a Bon Jovi concert, you're going to hear a lot of hits and you're going to have you know a lot of fun doing it.
Speaker: And so i'm i ordered one and my friend ordered one. So at some point it will be behind me. I am curious because you you did get one. I am curious to see how they hold up. I know that when you switch ah hardware, sometimes it can be ah a little rough making that transition. know Spooky did it, obviously, when they went from the P-Rock back to their own proprietary stuff. And I know that going proprietary ah has its advantages and and cost ah measures and stuff, right?
Speaker: um One thing is is Alpha Bravo did a video and I noticed that ah Bon Jovi is no longer using fast. So I don't know why they didn't talk to us about that in our interview, but I am kind of curious to see, because I know that like Jeff Dotson of, of dirty pool upgrade the sound. apparently this sound sounds amazing. And i don't know if like par of that was doing this and stuff like that as well. Um, I'm just, I'm really curious of, of the direction there. You know what I'm saying? yeah And it, uh,
Speaker: the The challenge is i don't think a lot of us have enough knowledge to really tease out what the pros and cons of the different systems are. And even Stern's system, you know, White Star versus SAM versus Spike, Spike 2, Spike 3, I doubt any of us could articulate exactly what the limitations are on those operating systems.
Speaker: um the the thing that most people really care about is will it break down on me? Like do I, is it going to be stable? So whatever they're doing, I'm hoping they're doing it with that in mind, that reliability is king on pinball.
Speaker: So correct if that, if, if that ends up being a more reliable, uh, game, then great. Um, I guarantee I will talk about it if, uh, if it is not reliable, but I will also talk about it if it is reliable, because that's my number one thing in a home game.
Speaker: I, I don't want to, I don't want to be an amateur technician on it if I don't have to be. Well, and I think, I don't know. I agree with you. It's one of those things that like, You know, we talk about like, I don't want problems with the play field because if I have to swap out a play field, we're going to have issues. But honestly, I'd rather have problems with the play field than I would software because physical problems are easier. Yes. Yeah. Like send me a whole new play field and I'll just swap it out and send you back the old one. Like the plugs aren't terrible on it.
Speaker: if if you've got you know software issues yeah there's nothing i can that's an issue then i will sell it like i yeah any game that i just that is i'm working on more than i'm playing i'm going to sell and and i am intrigued because parker dillman's the guy that's on the electronics and the software for this which he hasn't done anything in pinball since america's most haunted for spooky okay so i'm hoping that it's been 15 and he's done a great job on doing other things. I, I am hoping that I'm a, I'm a better doctor than I was 15 years ago when I just came out of residency.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Well, as soon as I saw that, that they you were doing their own thing, I went right to the the pin. you know, what's wonderful about pin side is you can go on there and it will tell you every person for everything they've done on there. And sometimes it overdoes it for them, right? Like, yes. I mean, times when we had to like a coder on, like I never worked on that. Yeah. He's like, says right here on pin side.
Speaker: Well, are you talking pin side or I, I PDB? I'm talking pin side. Cause you click on the game on pin side and yeah that's the first thing that comes up was with the whole design team on there. Yeah. But it's okay. Again, i I just want something that's reliable that I can play, but I guarantee Winchester is still going to be selling. And so, Oh yeah, it's a, they, they haven't had that complaint yet that their games are always broken down.
Speaker: So i I'm hoping they've been very, very reliable. And, and David's been very smart with what he does with his pinball machines. I hope this is another brilliant move by barrels of fun. And when we, when we went to expo last year, then ah all their games were, were functioning the entire time.
Speaker: Like I don't remember games off with the play field up. I don't. I don't either. I do, but it was before the whole floor had opened up. Yeah. And it was one of those things where they were just going through. nothing Yeah.
Speaker: So, um, speaking of spooky, cause Parker Dillman, uh, spooky scene, close to revealing the rumored goonies. Do you think I doubt it'll be before expo because I don't think so.
Speaker: they're usually November, December time. I think last year with Beetlejuice was the earliest and then they still stuck to yeah a January production time. Like, so I don't feel like it's advantageous and all to show, to, to show any earlier than even what they did with Beetlejuice. I think they should hold off until December like they did the ah the previous iterations. But our our buddies over there flipping out was, was teasing. They sent their whole crew up there to record stuff for it i mean, it's, it there's some hype behind this one.
Speaker: ah Well, there are, and I get, to I'll get messages from people. Hey, I did get messages from, you know, my friend the other day. Hey, what are the chances that Beetlejuice is going, or not Beetlejuice, that Goonies is going to be made? And I said, really good.
Speaker: Because he that's his that's one of his dream themes. So it's ah you know in Spooky, they have their they have their path. you know that Their Beetlejuice, it's not like people are buying it, then not liking it and selling it It's still, you know, they've they've had a couple solid hits the last last two. like So in Texas, I guess, ah Texas, if you're a big fan of that ah theme. That's got to be their best shooting game that they've ever made. Well, and they they also had Walking Dead.
Speaker: And they had, you know, so they, I mean, from like a geometry flow standpoint, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It's funny. We did the, uh, uh, the bracket through our Patreon and it was, it amazed me how many people love Texas Chainsaw Massacre just for having it shot.
Speaker: Yeah. So it's, uh, I, I, I would anticipate the Goonies will be announced November and then made in January. I agree.
Speaker: So um yeah, Goonies, does anything for you? You know, I'm a total outlier and I totally admit it that I i am exactly the demographic that Goonies would appeal to.
Speaker: I'm 52. When Goonies came out, I think it was, i don't know, I was probably like eight or 10. And it was it was a big hit. I remember watching it once or twice and thinking that it was a fun show.
Speaker: But it it it it didn't really have a long-lasting effect on me. But I know a lot of people that it's one of their favorites. And it's hard to to recapture that nostalgia later in life.
Speaker: um We watched Ghostbusters last night. Oh, wow. That would not hold up today at all.
Speaker: Really? i still enjoy ghostbusters. I still go back and watch it occasionally. Oh, wow. It's a, I, I was super bored and the, and the, and just all of the, uh, like all of the special effects were criminally bad.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. and it Like star Wars looked like it was, it was like Michelangelo versus like a mud sculpture. Well, I look at, I look at ghostbusters kind of the same vein as I did. Monty Python, the Holy grail, you're not watching it for like how amazing the visual effects and stuff are. It's the, it's the giggles and it's like just the moments in those was movies. Sure. But I, I don't even think the jokes landed. And even my wife was like,
Speaker: You know what? Bill Murray is not an attractive guy. How is he a leading man? He is not a good looking guy. I was like, well, Sigourney Weaver is pretty. I guess she still holds up. He does not.
Speaker: Alrighty, moving on multimorphic. They're going to have dungeon crawler, Carl at expo, I think one or two, and then they'll probably have whatever else they have up there as well. yeah Um, I'm excited to play dungeon crawler, Carl.
Speaker: Uh, I obviously own a multimorphic. I got portal. Holy crap. This game is awesome. Like I'm really, really enjoying it. If you like the attack for Mars, hurry up. Like, you know how you do, like you shoot the ramp three times and yeah shoot up the middle and gives you the however many points right and then you can stack it yeah and then uh um lyman sheets had done if you did you're able to perfect it and do them all start them all and then shoot up the mill you get the big billion hurry up they did it similar with this but the requirement's a little deeper than that so it's a little harder to obtain i think the most so the average score you're going to get like i think replays at nine million so if that kind of gives you an idea it's not a super high scoring game
Speaker: Um, but like those hurry ups, if you can least stack three in a row, gives you over a million points if you're able to hit up the middle quick. So there's a little focus on that. And then you get multipliers that stack on that, that then you take into the modes, which are called tests.
Speaker: And the tests are great. Like they're just, they're so thematically done well. Like there's a, I don't know if you've ever played portal Scott, but there is a low, little bit. a little bit. There's a thing in there called the companion cube, which is obviously thematically in there because it's a ball lock and you had to hit it and you got to get it underneath it and stuff. But in the game, you've got to pick it up and take it through the test with you. And then the game kind of forces you to like throw the cube away at the end of that test. And then it's like, you monster, you killed companion cube.
Speaker: you know Anywho, so in this one, that one of the tests are, it's a two ball multi ball. You've got to pick up the companion cube and then it turns into a two ball multi ball. And you've got to hit the shots as if you were you're taking companion cube through you with the portals to the end.
Speaker: it's just It's wonderfully done. um i think my only couple hiccups are, any new pinball game, you're going tweaking the game. You have to dial it in. Right. I feel like I'm doing that a little bit, maybe a little bit more with this than I would other games.
Speaker: Um, but I think I've got it pretty well where I want it. I need to do a couple more adjustments, but I've had it for almost two weeks now and it's, it's holding up great. Um, one thing is, is if you're familiar with the extended, there's this spinner that leads into a scoop.
Speaker: Um, it feels like that spinner, it's kind of wood choppy and the way i say that is like one of the modes is hidden there so there's there's six tests and the seventh test is is you have to do something to make it appear right part of that is with the spinner and it's a lot of wood chopping on the spinner to actually get i've never even gotten that mode because i haven't obtained this ah amount of spinner hits i need to hit to start that mode and then in some of the modes it's like you spin the spinner a bunch of times to do whatever you've got to in that test and so i wish you didn't rely so much on that i get that it's thematically tied in with what it's doing and it's a good idea of what they did um maybe just less less spins to to accomplish what you're trying to do but really if that's my two complaints i love the game modes i love like the test modes i love The hub, you can just play the game. You have start a mode. You just explore. You can explore the whole play field ah just by just start pressing the start button.
Speaker: And so it's it's just a fun game. um So I'm excited. I'm excited. If this is what they came up with for Portal, I'm very intrigued to see what they do with Dungeon Caller Carl, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.
Speaker: I'm wondering if something like a spinner... if it could reward you for hitting it solidly as in if it's like a, if you hit it solidly, the spinner is going to be spinning faster.
Speaker: Right. And so I wonder if you could get like a, a bonus for hitting it like solidly and it just spins, but the velocity may not be that significant to make a difference. So i I'm just wondering how you could make it a more rewarding for a, an experienced player.
Speaker: I need to get Bruce and Ron over. Cause I know they like to juice their spinners on stars and stuff like that. I just, yeah just need their help. It's all about the lube. They love their lube. You know, if if you don't listen to a slam tilt, why aren't you?
Speaker: Well, they're not family friendly. So they're not, no, no, no. Earmuffs, earmuffs, but they are, they are very funny. They are very funny. But no, I like, I'm seriously like portal. I've got a video coming out soon. Like I've been working on like an unboxing and kind of like ah It's funny because um I had someone reach out and like, was that not a pain to like switch out the side art and everything? It's a giant magnet. I took a video. It only takes you like four seconds, right?
Speaker: I pull the whole thing off, slap the new one on. and he's like, that was it. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, actually, this appeals to me a lot more now that I know that like swapping stuff on this is that quick and easy.
Speaker: So overall, I'm happy. I'm happy. So yeah. And I eventually I need to make it out to Vernal so I can play it. Heck yes. All right. We had ah Brian Vincent on along with Rob and ah we talked about Circus Voltaire and it still kind of boggles my mind. i could be wrong. i think we're the only one that's done a podcast on this. Probably. There might have been a first few look. I can't remember, but it almost seems like they announced this the week, not even a full week before fallout.
Speaker: And then they've just went quiet. And I know that they're talking about like they're focusing on expo. So yeah, wonder if the game strategy is like we reveal and then we don't do anything till expo. Like I just, I don't know what are your thoughts? I think it's a, an awareness that fallout is going to suck up the oxygen in the room.
Speaker: Everybody knew that fallout was going to be big. It's Keith. um We didn't know that it was going to be ah ah a higher bomb.
Speaker: And so it's it's a more augmented game. So i I think it's smart to say, hey, this is Circus Voltaire. If you know Circus Voltaire and you see it, then you're going to see a new version of it.
Speaker: So getting the word out, hey, this is not a surprise. Come and check us out ah at Expo. And we have enough people in pinball who listen to us or see us that if you're at least casually familiar with buying games, you're probably going to go check it out and build it by word of mouth. If they make a solid game and people go and play it at Expo and say, yeah, I like Circus Voltaire and this will be a fun addition to my collection.
Speaker: You could definitely have... um you could have a lot of sales from that. mean, Winchester was like that. Winchester was just like, hey, we announced this game. They announced it, what, on Tuesday and it was sold out Friday?
Speaker: yeah something like that. Okay, but people were like, Winchester, go check it out. And there were enough people at Expo to get exposure to ah Winchester to say, yeah, I think I could i could do this.
Speaker: Now, if if Circus Voltaire is able to have you know, half of that response, I would consider it a success. And honestly, honestly, I'm excited for Circus Voltaire. Like it's, it's a fun game and it's similar code to,
Speaker: I would put in like, like Minneapolis madness and attack for Mars may need to be a little more robust than those, or it needs to become more robust like those games, but like it really is a fun game. And like, I'm excited to see what American pinball is bringing to the table on this one.
Speaker: Um, especially with like the reboot and everything too. If you're buying a retro game, you're not buying it expecting 2026 two thousand twenty six code You're buying it knowing exactly what the code is. If I'm buying Super Mario Brothers for the Nintendo Entertainment System, I know it's going to be an eight minute game that I can speed run to the entire end.
Speaker: but it's still, I still like it because it's nostalgic. And if they can replicate that and have it reliable, again, reliability is key and be able to replicate that for people who are experienced with it. Anybody who's going to Expo knows Circus Voltaire and they may not have ever played a great version of it. I, I,
Speaker: ah i ah Liken it to Cactus Canyon. The new version of Cactus Canyon is infinitely more enjoyable than the original Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: So people knew about Cactus Canyon, but the new version actually made it the the play more enjoyable. And I would say the play on Circus Voltaire was actually pretty good for what it was. And if they can do the same thing, they they could sell 300 games at Expo, which would be a solid so solid success.
Speaker: Totally agree. Speaking of remakes, Pedretti's going to be there with Tales of the Arabian Nights. I'm excited, and the reason being is is I love the old CGC remakes.
Speaker: And now with them having those team of CGC there, um i love my phone house. Don't get me wrong. I do feel like the software is a little bit of where the weak point is. It's still very playable. i don't feel like there's many hiccups where it shuts down on you or anything like that. There's just some oddities to it.
Speaker: ah Like Rudy's talking, but nothing's coming out. uh some of the level adjustments are really weird during in some of the game of gameplay and they get like they had to emulate the original code so there's a little bit of variance there but um with bringing on the cgc team that has worked on these remakes i'm excited to see what they've now done with tells the arabian nights uh what do you think scott if they can do something similar to what they have done with the cgc um um
Speaker: We all know the quality kind of dipped off at the very end of the CGC run. Um, but if they, that probably has more to do with just behind the scenes, uh, with what was going on in CGC, uh, again, speculation, my opinion, um, if they can emulate and get to the level of doing like what they did with attack from Mars and monster bash,
Speaker: then it will be a big success for them. um Toten is, it it is what it is. It's not a deep game. It's a pretty game. It's a fun game.
Speaker: And if people can have like a five minute game on it, which is what most people have on my medieval madness, when they come over, it will be considered a success. And if they can sell enough of them,
Speaker: I still question why they didn't do a classic version to have it under $10,000. I think that was a mess. They should have done that. i think I think the complication there is you're not in the United States and you have to fight tariffs.
Speaker: that Again, this is me just talking ah about talking as a pinball buyer an enthusiast. This is not me talking as a manufacturer. i get you.
Speaker: Maybe there were reasons why they could not do or they decided not to do a classic version. i I wish they... did a classic version. It would be more likely. It's called the anniversary edition, but yeah, it's not like, yeah it's not like the silver side rails and stuff like that. And kind of yeah, I get to what you're saying. More like the fun house classic. Yeah. More, more like, cause they did that before. And so when, when they were, this was rumored, we were both anticipating that they were going to follow a similar path.
Speaker: Like I anticipated that they were going to have a classic version that was probably around seven, five or eight. Um, that they didn't. And, and, and those reasons are theirs. I wish them the best and I hope that it's a good presentation for them so they can sell enough to make it worth it.
Speaker: I agree. Uh, Turner pinball is going to be up there with Yukon Yeti. I'm hearing great things. Retro Ralph got one. He's happy with his Don over at Don's pinball podcast. Got one. He's enjoying his, this game is, is wowing people. I'm, I'm excited to hear this.
Speaker: So I'm hoping that Yukon Yeti is at least as beloved or it's consistent enough with Whitewater that it will continue to sell and to do well.
Speaker: um I still haven't played one yet. It looks very similar and thematically it looks like it should be close enough. so uh we'll see uh we'll see as people keep playing it uh if it uh matches the hype of the original because the original is a straightforward basic game right it is yep it's not it's not deep it's not deep be no and what you're doing and it's not really actually much i don't think there's modes in the game like there are like obviously there's like the uh wet willies and whatnot but like
Speaker: you're essentially just rafting the river you're trying to shoot shots and create or do the combos that are random so that way you can to go further down the river so i don't know i'm excited i whitewater is one of my favorites like it's such a good game i used to own it i traded out to upgrade and whatnot but But it's a fun game.
Speaker: It's a fun. and the And that's exactly what people want when they're buying these retro games. They're not looking for a Godzilla. They're not looking for a Fallout. They're looking for, you know, ah Beatles.
Speaker: You know, I still have I still have my Beatles because I like the retro feel of it. And then last but not least that I know of Killdozer. So our friend Jake Danzig is going to have Monster Hockey League or Monster league Hockey there at Expo. And this is going to be a production one. Like this is going to not the homebrew.
Speaker: ah Should be great. It's fun playing head to head as long as they decrease the ball times. Like the the the downtime between balls.
Speaker: ah So that was the one downside. And I know it was a, I know it was a homebrew, but, the ball would drain and then it would take like a minute to get the ball back into action. So if they can get those things, uh, so it's, it's instant action, it'll be a big hit. And, uh,
Speaker: I like bringing back head to head in pinball. it's ah It's still one of my favorites. I would love to have a a joust pinball machine because that that is still one of my favorites just because it's so much fun to play against someone.
Speaker: And then this year, it sounds like they're bringing the media mixer back. Score break is be over it this year. They're doing two nights instead of one. um Yeah, I think if you're coming going to be at Expo.
Speaker: You're going, right? Yeah, I'm going to be there. I'm planning on the Friday night one. That is the one that I've requested to be at. ah So if you want to if you want to hang out with us. or Where's it going to be?
Speaker: This year it's at the pinball capital. So I've heard really good things about the pinball capital. ah same here I was planning on going to the pinball capital that night, but that was when I got, uh, I got pulled into ah an online meeting so I couldn't go.
Speaker: I get you, but no, I'm, I'm excited. I'm excited to see where this, how'd they do it this year? And Scorpid did a great job last year uh, taking the game and, or taking out the game, taking the event and, and working with Colin and whatnot. Colin won't be there this year, but ah yeah, it sounds like they're, they're taking over and they're going to make it better, bigger and better this year.
Speaker: i I'm excited to hear Josh. And I want you to hear, i want you to tell me how the pinball capital is because it sounds like a destination arcade that I would like to go to.
Speaker: I agree. I think that pretty much wraps it up for us though, Scott. I don't know if, is there anything else that I missed from this last? is it Can people still get hats if they want to order them? Yes. Thank you for reminding me If you want a hat, just like the one that Scott is wearing, um you need to hit us up. I will put the form in the description, but this is the last week we'll have it available. This is a strictly a pre-order right now. And then I will put the order in next Monday. So the 28th of September. So that way we can have them all wrapped up and ready to bring to you. If you're coming to expo, so you can avoid shipping, save you a couple bucks. Right.
Speaker: So, and if you are, if, if you're going to be in town, Josh, I actually have a lot of stickers and magnets. And so if you're going to be by my house, I'll be able to, to meet or beat you. Maybe maybe we'll meet in Nickel Mania and play some Sonic, but I think I might be there. I might be around that area.
Speaker: People don't know. So I'm going to brag for Josh. Okay. Josh's son has been playing. so He's a great soccer player and he has been playing up the ladder on Real Salt Lake, which is our MLS team. So I'm going to let Josh brag on his son now and he can tell about why he's been out in my area.
Speaker: This is why I'm like, I don't like, I want to keep my fingers crossed. And I'm like, we're, we're working through the program right now. Right? Like he was chosen out of 150 to come down and try out. And then out of that 150, they didn only kept 50.
Speaker: So, uh, he made the cut. We're doing it till November and then like, we'll keep going. if If they want to keep working with them, they will. But yeah, it's, it's pretty crazy. He, we went and did some training yesterday. Sorry, we're recording on Saturday. So we went with when trained with him on Friday. And it's pretty cool that they he trains with the professional team out there. He's playing with other players that play on the team.
Speaker: And ah he's he's his confidence is starting to go through the roof because these are the coaches that work with the training teams and stuff like that. And they're they're teaching what they're looking for what he should be working on uh yeah it's just it's an incredible opportunity i hope i hope he makes as far as he wants to so okay but even either way josh that's a ah big uh a big uh proud daddy moment just to be know just to even get to this level so it's uh oh and he's only 15 by the way
Speaker: but ah So, yeah, he's only 15. He's huge, though. He's the a six one one he's like like 240 or something. He's a big guy. no he's 180. I'm 240. Okay. He looks like a linebacker. looks like he's Harland. so Dude, he's he's killing it. He's doing great. i'm I'm proud of him. He's doing a great job. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: If yeah you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. We are at LoserKidPinball on all the socials. Thank you for tuning in. If you've stayed this long, obviously you really like listening to us. We really appreciate you sticking around. Hit us up on our Patreon. We do do a little... extra here and there scott and i really do need to uh we need to plan another hangout with the guys it's been a yeah we need we type another phone call and we need a okay we need to figure out well obviously we are appreciative of the patreon people because it does help us pay the bills i mean this is this is how it works so we i'm i'm grateful for everybody who does it but
Speaker: and You know what? Drop us drop us a message. what like we We did one phone call, which was fun. We should do more. But what other things would make it worth it for you to throw a few dollars our way?
Speaker: Yeah, I agree. so Other than that, Scott, it's give us our last bit of words before we sign off for another two weeks. I'm excited for a Fallout to come. It should be coming in the next two weeks. So I think it'll go right where Iron Maiden is. I think it's going to be right in the in the middle there.
Speaker: Thank you.
