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UR024: “R&B Unplugged” w/ Joe Public (Boyz II Men and Shanice) [1992 MTV Unplugged]
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Joe Public (Kevin Scott, JR Carter, and Dwight “Mr. Dew” Wyatt) joins the show to talk about playing the “R&B Unplugged” episode of MTV Unplugged in 1992. During the taping, they not only performed their own Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 hit “Live and Learn” but they also pulled double duty as the backing band for Boyz II Men and Shanice!
If you dig the show, would like to share your own Unplugged memories, offer up a correction, or connect with the show for any other reason:
- You can email me at unpluggedrevisited@gmail.com,
- You can reach out on Bluesky at @willhodge.bsky.social, or
- You can leave a voicemail (that’ll maybe get played on the show) by dialing 234-REVISIT (234-738-4748)
Recommended![UR023: “Unforgotten” - George Michael [1996 MTV Unplugged] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66ea0b235fcf51d2c9a0b7cd/43cbefc3-777c-4d93-9915-92abd82876d2.jpg)
![UR015: Mike Inez (Alice In Chains) [1996 MTV Unplugged] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66ea0b235fcf51d2c9a0b7cd/ce95ba92-1808-4cb4-b4f5-2fb578ff7daf.jpg)
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Unplugged. Unplugged. Unplugged. Revisited.
00:00:14
Speaker
Greetings and salutations. Welcome back to Unplugged Revisited, the podcast that celebrates, critiques, and dives deep into the last three and a half decades of MTV Unplugged. I'm your host, music journalist, pop culture anthropologist, and Unplugged obsessive, Will Hodge.
00:00:30
Speaker
First things first, I appreciate everyone's kind feedback on my most recent episode about George Michael's MTV Unplugged from 1996. I'll definitely work up another Unforgotten style episode at some point in the future. Scout's honor.
00:00:44
Speaker
Also, i appreciate everyone's patience and understanding with last month's unexpected blip in the programming schedule.
Interview with Joe Public: Unique Role in MTV Unplugged
00:00:50
Speaker
We're officially back in the groove now, and I'm super excited for today's episode featuring my chat with a band who not only played Unplugged at a really cool evolutionary moment in the show's trajectory just right before it blew up into the immediately identifiable 90s cultural touchstone it turned out to be,
00:01:08
Speaker
but also a band whose Unplugged episode was one of the more experimental ensemble style shows, where they first got to unplug their own Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 single, before then being the backing band for two other acts who were also unplugging their own Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 hit singles, all within the exact same show.
00:01:28
Speaker
Here, I'll just let them introduce themselves. Hey, yo, what up? This is Kev from Joe Public. Hey, this is Mr. Do. Hey, this is J.R. from Joe Public, and you're listening to Unplugged Revisited. Oh, ah here, rewind. Yes, 90s New Jacks Swing Quartet, Joe Public, featuring Kevin Scott on bass and vocals, J.R. Carter on guitar and vocals, Dwight, Mr. Do Wyatt on drums, and Jake Sales on keyboards.
00:01:55
Speaker
And they're best known for their James Brown, Steely Dan, Parliament and Digital Underground sampling, 1992 vibe stamped, top five on both the pop and R&B charts, double smash hit, live and learn.
00:02:17
Speaker
And one of the things that made Joe Publix so unique within the early 90s New Jack Swing, Pop R&B, Sonic landscape is that they were an actual band. As in wrote all their own songs, played all their own instruments, guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, a True Blue, capital B band.
00:02:35
Speaker
And that certainly set them apart from their contemporaries, as especially within that late 80s, early 90s New Jacks swing period, most of the genre-defining superstars were either solo acts, like Rhythm Nation era Janet
00:03:01
Speaker
vocal groups like Bell Biv DeVoe,
00:03:10
Speaker
and TLC,
00:03:17
Speaker
or producers like New Jack Swing's sonic architect and hit maker Teddy Riley,
00:03:27
Speaker
and the phenomenally talented, multi-Grammy-winning, god-tier pop R&B production team of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, who helmed over 40 Billboard Hot 100 top 10 hits, 16 of which went all the way to number one, including possibly the raddest middle school dance-slash-roller-ranked classic of all of 1991, Karen White's Romantic.
Personal Memories and Joe Public's Impact
00:03:48
Speaker
karen white's
00:03:58
Speaker
Small self-indulgent rabbit trail here. For me, Romantic will always be the song that immediately and indelibly signaled that the school dance vibe had seismically shifted between elementary and middle school.
00:04:10
Speaker
The first half of 91, I was in fifth grade, and High Five's The Kissing Game was very much the end of the school year, doing the electric slide in the cafeteria with the lights on energy.
00:04:30
Speaker
While during the second half of 91, I was in 6th grade and the back to school party was now awkwardly pairing off in the gym with the lights off as the sound of romantic and the smell of knock off dracar and electric youth wafted in the air.
00:04:51
Speaker
Okay, what point was I making? Oh yeah, so within the New Jack Swing genre, there weren't a lot of band bands. You know, acts that also played their own instruments. You could count Tony, Tony, Tony, and maybe a little bit of Mint Conditions catalog.
00:05:05
Speaker
But for the most part, if you're talking about a New Jack Swing band, you're talking about Joe Public. is
00:05:15
Speaker
And to that point, sometimes you would catch them on TV playing their own songs live. And from Buffalo, New York, here is a band of incredibly talented young men. This is their latest single on the Columbia label entitled Live and Learn.
00:05:27
Speaker
A great welcome, ladies and gentlemen, for Joe Public. And sometimes you'd catch them on TV as the live backing band for other acts.
R&B Unplugged Episode and Cultural Impact
00:05:36
Speaker
Performing Jump along with Joe Public from their debut album, Totally Crossed Out.
00:05:41
Speaker
This is Chris Cross. And that's exactly what happened when Joe Publick got invited to play MTV Unplugged in early 92, when the show wanted to do another multi-artist genre showcase with a single band backing all the acts, just like they had done the year prior on the Yo! Unplugged hip-hop episode with MC Light, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, and LL Cool J.
00:06:10
Speaker
This time around, though, MTV envisioned an episode called R&B Unplugged, and they invited three of the most popular up-and-coming R&B hitmakers of the moment, Boyz II Men, Shawnice, and Joe Public, who again also pulled Double Duty by being the backing band for Boyz II Men and Shawnice.
00:06:28
Speaker
Another cool story point about this specific episode of MTV Unplugged is that it was recorded during the same single day filming session as the gigantically mind-blowing Mariah Carey and Pearl Jam episodes.
00:06:41
Speaker
As I've mentioned on quite a few episodes before, my if-I-had-a-time-machine, Unplugged-centric dream scenario would be to travel back and experience either this Mariah Pearl Jam R&B Unplugged single day session, or the REM Yo Unplugged single day session from the year before.
00:06:59
Speaker
I mean, both of those had to be genuinely insanely awesome days at the office for the Unplugged crew. I'm really excited to get into my chat with Kevin, JR, and Mr. Do, plus dive into the intersection, which, for any new listeners, is the contextualizing part of the podcast where I spend some time setting up the interview by laying out where an artist was and where Unplugged was when the two converged.
00:07:23
Speaker
But before we get into all that Joe Public on MTV Unplugged with Boyz II Men and Shawnee's awesomeness, let's take care of a couple announcements and more on the other side of this vintage Unplugged commercial break.
00:07:36
Speaker
From the land of Chinook Salmon, Blackcomb Glaciers, and Saskatchewan Prairies, MTV brings you another natural wonder from the great white north. Brian Adams Unplugged.
00:08:00
Speaker
Set off on a musical journey tonight at 1030 only on MTV. Okay, just two quick vinyl centric announcements this week. Announcement one. First up, let's give away a record. Another play.
00:08:17
Speaker
Thank you to everyone who entered the contest for the recent double-disc vinyl reissue of Bob Dylan's MTV Unplugged album from 1995.
Vinyl Releases and Charity Connections
00:08:26
Speaker
Our randomly drawn winning listener is Mike Sutherland of beautiful British Columbia.
00:08:32
Speaker
Congrats, Mike. I hope your new Dylan Unplugged reissue is already spinning on your turntable. As always, my immense thanks to my friends over at Sony for partnering with me for this giveaway.
00:08:42
Speaker
And if anybody listening has connections to anyone in Dylan's bootleg series camp, please be a buddy and help us get a full release of both nights of Dylan's Unplugged Taping so we can finally hear the other half of the unreleased goodies.
00:08:56
Speaker
Announcement 2 With Record Store Day 2026 right around the corner, Saturday, April 18th to be exact, I wanted to make sure everybody knew there was another first time ever on vinyl MTV Unplugged album finally getting its proper wax debut.
00:09:12
Speaker
This year, it's the 1994 platinum selling, album of the year, Grammy winning, wildly popular Unplugged oddity from Tony Bennett. I left my heart.
00:09:30
Speaker
San Francisco It's a limited run, just a little over 2,000 copies, and it's being pressed up in a cool double LP set with the two bonus songs from the 2006 Deluxury Issue added in.
00:09:44
Speaker
I'm super jazzed to hopefully pick up one of these on Record Store Day, and the only critique I have of it is that I was really hoping that whenever this one finally made it to vinyl, that they would finally include the two unbroadcasted duets with Evan Dando of the Lemonheads and Jay Maskis of Dinosaur Jr. But alas, not yet.
00:10:03
Speaker
You know, speaking of record store day, I think a really cool idea would be to put out a 7-inch vinyl single with one of the unaired rarities on each side. Hmm. Maybe I should just get my Natalie Merchant prayer candle going on that one, and we'll see what happens.
00:10:19
Speaker
And just because you know I love you guys, in case you've never heard them before, here's a little taste of Tony and Evan's unplugged duet of Duke Ellington's solitude. Gloom ever away.
00:10:36
Speaker
And here's a snippet of Tony and Jay's unplugged duet on the Louis Armstrong, Betty Boop popularized St. James Infirmary. She'll never find another sweet man like me.
00:10:55
Speaker
Okay, let's keep things rolling with this episode's Uncovered. This is the segment where I quickly highlight a couple cool unplugged cover songs all tied around a singular theme.
00:11:06
Speaker
My pick for this episode's theme is Sweet Relief, the incredibly cool, long-running musicians fund charity that provides financial assistance to artists and musicians who've fallen on hard times.
00:11:18
Speaker
And you can find out more about their incredible work at SweetRelief.org. They put out two really cool compilation albums in the 90s, the first one in tribute to Victoria Williams, which came out in 93, and which you might know from Pearl Jam's cover of her song Crazy Mary that became a huge top 10 alt-rock radio mainstay.
00:11:39
Speaker
Take a bottle, drink it down, pass it around.
00:11:46
Speaker
And the second Sweet Relief comp came out in 96. It was in tribute to Vic Chestnut, and you might know it from R.E.M.' 's cover of his song, Sponge, that was also an alt-rock radio smash throughout the late summer and fall of
00:12:05
Speaker
world is the world
00:12:09
Speaker
So there are three direct unplugged connections to the two Sweet Relief compilations. First up, Soul Asylum's cover of Victoria's Summer of Drugs, of which the studio version can be found on the first comp, and which they played live during their 93 Unplugged episode.
00:12:25
Speaker
And we were too young to be hippies We missed out on the love Learn from the teens of the late and the summer of the drugs.
00:12:40
Speaker
Then there's Hootie and the Blowfish's cover of Vic's Gravity of the Situation, of which the studio version can be found on the second comp as a duet with the phenomenal Nancy Griffith, in which they played live with Nancy as one of their special guests during their 96 Unplugged episode.
00:13:16
Speaker
And finally, there's Live covering Vic's Supernatural during their 1995 MTV Unplugged episode. And that's the exact, gorgeously goosebump-inducing recording that showed up on the second comp the very next year.
00:13:43
Speaker
And as far as other artists that both showed up on the two compilations and also played MTV Unplugged, though they didn't play their Sweet Relief cover song during their Unplugged set, that list includes, well, Pearl Jam and R.E.M. as already mentioned, as well as Indigo Girls, Evan Dando, Michael Penn, Michelle Schacht, and believe it or not, Madonna.
00:14:04
Speaker
Alrighty, be sure to go check out those genuinely incredible sweet relief comps, if they're not already in your collection, of course. And that'll do it for our Uncovered segment this week. So, what do you say we go ahead and jump into the intersection?
00:14:19
Speaker
Here's the story of the 1992 R&B Unplugged episode featuring Joe Public, Boyz II Men, backed by Joe Public, and Shawnice, also backed by Joe Public.
R&B Scene in 1992: Joe Public and Boyz II Men
00:14:32
Speaker
Since this particular MTV Unplugged episode was one of their multi-artist ensemble shows, instead of my usual single artist deep dive, I'm going to frame this intersection by sort of laying out the state of late 91, early 92, new Jack swing slash pop R&B through the lens of the three specific artists that played the show.
00:14:53
Speaker
So, this particular Unplugged episode was filmed on March 16, 1992, and that's significant for both the artist side and the Unplugged side of this intersection.
00:15:03
Speaker
From the artist side, if you're surveying the 9192 R&B landscape, especially the pop-informed side of R&B, probably the most popular up-and-coming pop R&B artist of that particular moment in time was Mariah Carey.
00:15:18
Speaker
who was one of two artists who spent the most weeks at number one on the Billboard Hot 100 pop singles chart throughout all of 1991. Technically, she tied with Bryan Adams, thanks to that one song from the Robin Hood movie.
00:15:32
Speaker
But across that year, she managed to hit number one three separate times with three separate singles, Someday and I Don't Want to Cry, both from her nine times platinum self-titled debut album, and Emotions, from her then-brand-new, soon-to-be-quadruple platinum sophomore follow-up.
00:15:51
Speaker
Emotions also hit number one on the Billboard Hot R&B singles chart in late 91 as well.
00:16:01
Speaker
But as I mentioned, Mariah was already recording her very own MTV Unplugged episode that exact same night. Thank you much. Welcome to Unplugged, everybody. So MTV had to look for another popular up-and-coming pop R&B act of that particular moment in time to be the anchor of the R&B Unplugged episode.
00:16:20
Speaker
Enter Boyz II Men.
00:16:28
Speaker
the Philadelphia-based quartet of heavenly-harmonied vocal virtuosos who were masterfully riding the ever-increasing wave of their debut album, Cooley High Harmony, that had just been released literally a year and a day before their unplugged taping.
00:16:43
Speaker
And that rollercoaster was thanks in large part to the album's first three hit singles. The platinum-selling Motown Philly, which reached number three on the Hot 100 pop chart and number four on the Hot R&B chart.
00:17:00
Speaker
Their stirring cover of Motown soul singer G.C. Cameron's It's So Hard To Say Goodbye To Yesterday, No. 2 on the Hot 100, and No. 1 on the Hot R&B.
00:17:22
Speaker
and their steamy, quiet storm slow jam, Uh-Ah, which gave them their second hot R&B number one in a row, while also landing top 20 on the Hot 100.
00:17:38
Speaker
Heading into the March 16th unplugged taping, Boyz II Men's debut album was already triple platinum, and it would hit quadruple platinum in that small window between filming and broadcast.
00:17:50
Speaker
MTV certainly struck while the iron was hot in picking Boyz II Men to build the R&B unplugged episode around. And there was still much more to come, as just a month after the episode was broadcast, Boyz II Men would land their biggest hit single to date, End of the Road, from the Boomerang soundtrack.
00:18:07
Speaker
which spent 13 consecutive weeks at number one on the Hot 100 and four weeks atop the Hot R&B, while also earning two Grammy wins.
00:18:24
Speaker
Before the end of that year, Cooley High Harmony would go five times platinum, on its way to eventually being certified nine times platinum. And they'd also score another double-charting top-five hit with their cover of the Five Satins doo-wop classic In the Still of the Night from the made-for-TV miniseries The Jacksons.
00:18:44
Speaker
In the show of the night, in the still.
00:18:50
Speaker
Needless to say, thanks to Boyz II Men's jam-packed 1992, the R&B Unplugged episode would end up getting quite a few re-airings throughout the year. Alongside the undeniable chart-topping star power of Boyz II Men, MTV also invited the megawatt charisma of Shawn East, who, with a whopping two albums under her belt, was actually functioning as the de facto seasoned vet of the night's trio of performers, even though she was only 18 at the time.
00:19:19
Speaker
Shawneese's debut album, Discovery, had actually been released all the way back in 1987, when the mononymmed Upstart was only 14 years old. Discovery was produced by Brian Loren, who would go on to work with Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Sting, and many others.
00:19:37
Speaker
But most relevant to my 10-year-old interest, he's also responsible for crafting the nineteen ninety s Simpsons novelty hit Do the Bartman, which he famously co-wrote and co-produced with a contractually uncredited Michael Jackson, who, and I kid you not, also sang background vocals on the track.
00:20:05
Speaker
Shawnice's debut album garnered a pair of top 10 R&B hit singles. Baby Tell Me Can You Dance
00:20:17
Speaker
and No Half-Steppin', which, sadly but unsurprisingly, was not a cover of Big Daddy Kane's Ain't No Half-Steppin', since his debut album wouldn't be out until the next year.
00:20:29
Speaker
Half-Steppin'
00:20:32
Speaker
But of course, it wasn't until Shawnice's second album, Inner Child, which was released in November of 91, that she really blew up, thanks to her massively successful infectious signature hit, I Love Your Smile.
00:20:59
Speaker
Produced by the great Nerida Michael Walden and featuring saxophone from Brantford Marsalis
00:21:09
Speaker
and a bubbly laugh track from Janet Jackson.
00:21:14
Speaker
really do.
00:21:17
Speaker
I Love Your Smile was a huge pop radio hit, even though a lot of top 40 stations kneecapped the song a bit by often cutting out her charming little quasi-rap section between the bridge and the sax solo.
00:21:34
Speaker
The song made it all the way to number two on the US Hot 100 and one of the UK pop charts. But more impressively, it ended up spending four consecutive weeks atop the Hot R&B chart across the Christmas 91, New Year's 92 season.
00:21:49
Speaker
The song also ended up landing Shonise a Grammy nomination for Best Female R&B Vocal Performance. Plus, as a little oddball feather in her cap, Shanice also performed i Love Your Smile as the very first musical guest of the Jay Leno era of The Tonight Show.
00:22:05
Speaker
Welcome back to The Tonight Show. We are coming to live on the success of my next guest's current album. Inner Child has made her an international sensation. The first single, I Love Your Smile, has hit the top ten in a dozen countries and went number one right here in the old USA. Please welcome Shanice.
00:22:21
Speaker
Also, random fun fact, Leno's original Tonight Show bandleader for the first three seasons was none other than Brantford Marcellus. So while it wasn't true for every one of her late night talk show performances, for this one at least, she again got to say...
00:22:40
Speaker
After her appearance on the R&B Unplugged episode, Shawnee's had a few more exciting things up her sleeve throughout 1992. Like scoring a just one spot shy of a top 10 hit with her follow-up single, I'm Crying.
00:23:02
Speaker
Hitting number four on the R&B chart with her slow jam Johnny Gill duet, Silent Prayer.
00:23:14
Speaker
And returning to the Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 with Saving Forever For You, which only appears on the gold-certified Beverly Hills 90210 soundtrack and was even used diegetically within the show. Well, you see, that music just wasn't quite right. Now, this music I like much better.
00:23:34
Speaker
You want a slow dance? Yeah, any objections? No, not at all.
Joe Public's Early Success and Collaborations
00:23:39
Speaker
Good, because I know this one dance. You may have heard of it. It's called the ah Brandon Waltz. Which brings us to Joe Public, who functioned as the wide-eyed new kids on the block since their self-titled debut album had only been released about a month and a half before the R&B Unplugged taping.
00:23:57
Speaker
Despite their relative newness, they quickly marked their unique territory by performing their own material and impressively serving as the backing band for the episode's other two acts. Heading into the taping, Joe Public did already have a bonafide R&B number one and another hit in the making under their belts, though most viewers would have probably only known them for the second one.
00:24:19
Speaker
The first one was due to their appearance singing the vocal hook on Keith Sweat's chart-topping, Jungle Boogie sampling, Teddy Riley-produced New Jack Swing anthem, Keep It Coming.
00:24:39
Speaker
As you'll hear me find out in real time during my interview with the guys, Joe Public didn't just sing on Keep It Comin'. They actually wrote the song, and it was originally in the running to be on their own debut album, but they ended up deciding not to use it.
00:24:54
Speaker
Keith heard it, loved it, and invited them to sing on his version. He then released it as the lead single to his November 91 platinum-selling album of the same name.
00:25:05
Speaker
Keep It Comin' eventually went top 20 pop. and all the way to number one on the Hot R&B singles chart. But unless your local radio stations were staffed with DJs in the know, which thankfully Atlanta was overflowing with, most folks never knew Joe Public was on the track, because it was understandably only ever promoted as a Keith Sweat solo track, since Joe Public didn't even have their album out yet.
00:25:29
Speaker
However, less than two months after Keith released Keep It Comin', Joe Public's self-titled debut album came out in January 92, and their own smash hit, Live and Learn, was released as the soon-to-be-everywhere lead single.
00:25:53
Speaker
The song would eventually hit the top five on both the Hot 100 Pop and Hot R&B charts, and throughout all 1992 and well into 93, they were showing up everywhere.
00:26:05
Speaker
Arsenio. This group describes their sound as hip-hop, new jack, fanged on a different way. Performing their hit Live and Learn, give it up for Joe Public.
00:26:17
Speaker
The Tonight Show. My next guest started out performing at bars and school assemblies, and thanks to the success of their first CD, They become one of the hottest hip- hop hip-hop groups in the country, performing their hit, Live and Learn, Joe Public.
00:26:28
Speaker
Soul Train. Joe Public, quite a band. You guys are hot. All from Buffalo, right? Yeah. Showtime at the Apollo. Yeah, this goes out to the Apollo.
00:26:46
Speaker
And even the 1992 Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Take it away, fresh off 21 Jump Street and just kicking off her Hanging with Mr. Cooper era, Holly Robinson, Not Yet Pete. Now right now, with special Kids' Choice performance of their hit single, Live and Learn, please welcome Joe Pablo.
00:27:06
Speaker
You'd even catch Joe Public in a lot of other fun places, like appearing on the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air soundtrack, backing up crisscross on Arsenio, or playing in the background of yet another scene from Beverly Hills 90210. Nicky. David, you told me you're the school DJ, but what a setup.
00:27:26
Speaker
As you'll also hear me bring up during our interview, they even showed up on an NBA Jam promo VHS, promoting a bunch of music videos and clowning around between takes.
00:27:45
Speaker
Of course, their own video for Live and Learn appeared on that tape as well, because the only thing that could have made the already dope music video any better was to splice in clips of NBA highlights and bloopers featuring 90s legends like Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and of course Marv Alvin.
00:28:03
Speaker
This is not what Mr. Mason had in mind. Okay, so let's get into the actual R&B Unplugged taping. As I've already mentioned, this specific episode was filmed on March 16, 1992, during the same day filming session as the Mariah Carey and Pearl Jam
MTV Unplugged's Third Season and Cultural Significance
00:28:21
Speaker
episodes.
00:28:21
Speaker
And I mention this again because I want to kind of paint the picture of precisely where MTV Unplugged was at in its own journey. Because while the show did experience its huge glow-up in 92, it absolutely had not happened just yet.
00:28:35
Speaker
By the time of the R&B Unplugged taping, MTV Unplugged was just kicking off its third season. And while there were certainly some memorable performances during its first two years, the show hadn't really broken pop cultural containment yet.
00:28:49
Speaker
Meaning, if you knew about the show, it was pretty much only because you watched the show. MTV was still barely breaking out individual unplugged songs into standalone music videos, and the only unplugged album that had come out was the limited edition Paul McCartney one from the year before.
00:29:06
Speaker
And old newspaper articles and magazine reviews show that that album was being framed more as part of the new quote-unquote authorized bootleg trend than any sort of official MTV unplugged album.
00:29:19
Speaker
And of course, the show being able to turn out chart-topping radio singles or platinum-selling albums wasn't on anybody's radar at all at this point. So here's the Unplugged Season 3 kickoff timeline.
00:29:32
Speaker
The season began in mid-January 1992, when Eric Clapton filmed his also-soon-to-be-everywhere MTV Unplugged in Windsor, England. On March 4th, Paul Simon recorded his MTV Unplugged episode, though it wouldn't be broadcast until early June.
00:29:48
Speaker
A week later, the Clapton episode was first broadcast on March 11th. And then boom, just five short days later, Joe Public, Sean East, and Boyz II Men, as well as Mariah Carey and Pearl Jam, all filmed their three unplugged episodes on March 16th.
00:30:04
Speaker
And there's probably a good chance that none of them had even seen the Clapton episode yet.
00:30:12
Speaker
So that's another one of the reasons why I think these early to mid-92 Unplugged episodes have such an interesting air about them. Unplugged hadn't fully become capital U Unplugged yet because these were the episodes that made the pop cultural phenomenon happen.
00:30:28
Speaker
And just to close out this relevant portion of the season three timeline, Pearl Jam's episode was first broadcast on May 13th. Thanks very much. It didn't feel like a TV show at all, actually. It didn't.
00:30:39
Speaker
And a week later, the Mariah episode and the R&B Unplugged episode, both just 30-minute versions, aired back-to-back on May 20th. Anything else that... um Well, I have this week the Unplugged thing coming up. And is that this week and next week? Of course, viewer response and demand for repeat airings of Mariah's episode encouraged the release of her Jackson 5 cover of I'll Be There to radio and record stores, which became a global number one smash and spent a couple weeks at the top of the Billboard Hot 100.
00:31:11
Speaker
Again, insane for a performance that was A. recorded for a television show and B. was being performed for the very first time and had just been decided on the night before.
00:31:22
Speaker
This next song...
00:31:26
Speaker
I'm gonna start again because these guys are making me laugh. This next song was made popular by the incredible Jackson Fire.
00:31:37
Speaker
And it's always been one of my favorite songs and we hope it's yours. It's called I'll Be There.
00:31:47
Speaker
Mariah's MTV Unplugged DP was released in June and it quickly went double platinum by late July. And as I always like to point out, all of this happened before Clapton released his MTV Unplugged album in late August and his Unplugged Layla single to radio in mid-September.
00:32:05
Speaker
See if you can spot this one.
00:32:19
Speaker
So yes, while Clapton's Unplugged sold more albums and won more Grammys, I always push back on the assertion that he is often credited with single-handedly popularizing the MTV Unplugged phenomenon.
00:32:32
Speaker
As I always say, possibly a little oversimplified, but you get my underlying point, MTV Unplugged's seismic cultural entrenchment in the pop cultural zeitgeist is due to the fact that Mariah Carey made it cool before Eric Clapton made it legit.
00:32:49
Speaker
which is a really important distinction when you're discussing any sort of pop cultural entity made by a youth-oriented entertainment conglomerate like MTV.
00:33:01
Speaker
If you want to hear me dig into this point even further, feel free to check out my initial Unplugged 101 episode covering the show from 1989 to 1993, or last year's episode on Mariah's Unplugged featuring my interview with her longtime background vocalist and I'll Be There duet partner, Trey Lorenz.
00:33:20
Speaker
And if you don't want to hear me dig into this point even further, fair enough. Well, just keep listening, because we're moving on to the R&B Unplugged set list and one of my favorite Unplugged topics, the magical sonic awesomeness of live acoustic sampling.
00:33:35
Speaker
Because Unplugged was still mostly just doing 30-minute episodes at this point, the R&B Unplugged show was criminally short with only five songs. So the trio of acts moved through their big hits pretty quickly.
MTV Unplugged Performances: Joe Public and Boyz II Men
00:33:48
Speaker
The broadcast opened with Boyz II Men. Hey, how's it going?
00:33:55
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey, hey. Yeah. Thank you and welcome to MTV's Unplugged. We are boys to men. Gloriously decked out in gold oversized blazers with long-sleeved black t-shirts underneath, an iconic 90s trend we would see revisited on the Blackstreet episode in 1997.
00:34:15
Speaker
And they opened up with their brand new single and soon-to-be R&B top 10 hit, Please Don't Go. Please don't go away from me.
00:34:26
Speaker
This one is a quintessential early Boyz II Men slow jam ballad. Emotionally pleading vocals, honey-laced harmonies, and of course a smoothly booming Michael McCary spoken word section.
00:34:38
Speaker
You know, it's not all gonna receive each other. That's why I cherish every moment that we spend together. So there's not any fun acoustic sampling to dissect in this one, but I will say Joe Public absolutely nailed the restrained dynamics behind this intentionally instrumentally sparse four-part vocal showcase.
00:35:09
Speaker
Next up was Joe Public playing a really cool and unique version of Live and Learn that pulled back some of the song's more flashy ornamental samples and really pushed the song's melodic foundational samples to the fore, while also retranslating them through acoustic instruments.
00:35:26
Speaker
Even though they played Live and Learn on quite a few TV appearances around this time, this one ended up being a really cool standalone iteration that highlighted both the band's and the song's unique components.
00:35:38
Speaker
To break it down a little bit, the guitar, bass, drums, keyboard, melodic song structure of Live and Learn is supported and seasoned throughout by some really clever samples.
00:35:49
Speaker
So, first let me just have you listen to the first 20 seconds or so of the song's intro and chorus hook.
00:36:19
Speaker
The foundational samples of that section are this sped-up interpolation of the piano and bass line from Parliament's 1974 album cut, All Your Goodies Are Gone.
00:36:35
Speaker
And the drum groove from Digital Underground's 1990 chart-topping classic, Humpty Dance. Peace and humptiness.
00:36:48
Speaker
which itself was cribbed from the mid-song breakdown in Sly and the Family Stone's 1968 anthem, Sing a Simple
00:37:06
Speaker
And in fact, you can still hear the Sing a Simple Song horn line in Live and Learn as well. There's also quite a few decorative samples going on in that section that are not as integral to the melodic bones of the song, but are still really fun and interesting to hear as sonic ornamentation.
00:37:22
Speaker
Those are the iconic Public Enemy Rebel Without a Pause teakettle sample. Yes!
00:37:32
Speaker
Which is really just the saxophone intro from The Grunt, a 1970 funk instrumental from James Brown's backing band, The JBs.
00:37:47
Speaker
And speaking of James Brown, Joe Public dropped this clip from Brown's 1970 top five R&B hit, Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved, after the first line of the chorus, while also dropping this clip this out from Jesse Jackson's introduction of the Soul Children at the 1972 Wattstacks Benefit concert after the third line of the chorus.
00:38:14
Speaker
Joe Public also popped in two other notable samples at different sections of Live and Learn, including a cleverly used snippet of the 1979 rap song Funk You Up from the pioneering female hip-hop trio The Sequins. It's this little keyboard squiggle right here,
00:38:31
Speaker
that Joe Public used in the turnaround to get back into the verses. And of course, the immediately recognizable horn riff from Steely Dan's 1977 Billboard Top 20 hit, Peg, can be heard in the song's pre-chorus.
00:38:42
Speaker
and of course the immediately recognizable horn riff from steelie dan's nineteen seventy seven billboard top twenty hit
00:38:56
Speaker
can be heard in the song's
00:39:06
Speaker
For Joe Public's acoustically reworked MTV Unplugged version of Live and Learn, they not only completely revamped the song's intro, It's the J to the O to the E And it's the B to the U to the B Well, it's the L to the I to the C Joe Public, kick a little something, uh!
00:39:27
Speaker
But they also, naturally, stripped away all of the ornamental samples. No Public Enemy tea kettle, no Jesse Jackson, no Funk U Up keyboard squiggle.
00:39:38
Speaker
Instead, they smartly just highlighted and acoustically recreated the foundational samples, like the Sly Stone Digital Underground drum groove and Parliament-inspired bass and piano that anchored the song's chorus hook.
00:40:03
Speaker
And they also relocated the Steely Dan horn riff in the pre-chorus over to the piano.
00:40:17
Speaker
They also completely reimagined the flow underneath the bridge, which normally sounded like this.
00:40:27
Speaker
But on Unplugged was turned into this sick groove.
00:40:32
Speaker
And I can't move on without also just shouting out this gorgeous drum fill kicking off the outro riff. Thank you! i can't move on without also just shouting out this gorgeous drumfill kicking off the outro
00:40:56
Speaker
The show public is in the house. Let's have a big round of applause for Shanisha Keen. Okay, yes, Shawnice was up next doing I Love Your Smile, which, while the original doesn't have any fun samples to talk about, is still just an absolute killer pop song that, as acoustically reinterpreted by Joe Public for this unplugged performance, gets a little of its pop polish swapped out for a deceptively uncluttered, super bass-forward, full band version.
00:41:26
Speaker
I mean, just listen to the nasty little bass fill thrown in on the line for you to paint my toes today.
00:41:38
Speaker
And since no one in Joe Public played saxophone, I Love Your Smile's sax solo break had to be moved over to one of the band's two pianos, this one played by Joe Public touring member Eric Williams, causing Shawnice's playful Blow Brantford Blow to be, at least for this unplugged performance, temporarily altered.
00:42:00
Speaker
Also notably, since it didn't happen on all of her TV appearances, we also got Shawneese's Little Rap.
00:42:13
Speaker
After Shawneese, Boyz II Men were back to perform what I think is the absolute hands-down best live version of Motown Philly they've ever played, thanks to Joe Public cranking the song's energy and tempo up quite a few notches.
00:42:43
Speaker
I mean, this barn burner even had the first couple rows of the audience up on their feet, which is not exactly the typical unplugged crowd vibe, but was completely well-earned here. Even when everything but the drums and percussion cut out for the song's rap section, originally performed by Bell Bib DeVoe's Michael Bivens, but handled here by Boyz II Men's Sean Stockman, the song's driving live wire thump didn't lose a step.
00:43:09
Speaker
Now check this out one day back in Philly. And of course, we got a little smoothed out street light doo-wop section as well.
00:43:23
Speaker
This is genuinely one of the coolest and most exciting unplugged performances, especially of that pre-mass popularity era of the show. And I think the only thing that could have made it even more memorable would have been to have had sudden impact step out as special guest.
00:43:38
Speaker
True heads know. And shout out to Dave Holmes.
00:43:43
Speaker
And then finally, the R&B Unplugged show closed things out with the prerequisite unplugged cover song. Oftentimes, as in this case, a special one-night-only performance.
Preservation of Unplugged Performances
00:43:54
Speaker
And for this one, all three acts joined up to perform Marvin Gaye's 1971 social commentary protest song turned chart-topping smooth jazz soul anthem, Mercy, Mercy Me.
00:44:08
Speaker
Oh, mercy, mercy me.
00:44:16
Speaker
I've always been surprised that this one isn't one of those special unplugged covers that got released to radio, but I think it was just a matter of timing. It was just a little bit too early. Had this episode happened a year later, like post Carrie and Clapton, around that window when the Jodeci and 10,000 Maniacs unplugged covers were hitting radio, I think this one could have easily been in that mix as well.
00:44:44
Speaker
But alas, no radio single, no album release, and it's not even included in the MTV Unplugged archive that's currently available to stream on Paramount+. plus Thankfully, we've at least still got our memories and blurry videos uploaded to YouTube to fall back on.
00:45:00
Speaker
Thank you. Thank
Joe Public's Reflections on MTV Unplugged Experience
00:45:01
Speaker
you What do you say we hear a little more about the 92 R&B Unplugged episode from some folks who are actually there making it happen?
00:45:10
Speaker
Here's my Unplugged Revisited chat with Kevin Scott, J.R. Carter, and Mr. D. Wyatt of Joe Public. I'm so excited to be sitting here talking with today's guest, Joe Public, one of the coolest, most multi-talented bands of the early 90s New Jack swing genre. And we'll be revisiting their incredible 1992 MTV Unplugged episode where they not only performed their huge double charting top five hit Live and Learn, but they also doubled up as the backing band for Boyz II Men and Shawneese as well.
00:45:41
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining the show today, guys. Thank you, Will. Hey, thanks for having us. Let's kick things off by just ah kind of going around the horn and have y'all introduce yourselves so listeners can match your names and what instrument you played with your voices.
00:45:55
Speaker
This is Kevin. I play bass. did some early singing and um that was I had a ball. Up next, um JR, guitar, leading background vocals, shooting guard, point guard, and overall Buffalo Bills family.
00:46:14
Speaker
Do, you're next. I'm Mr. Do. I play drums, percussion for the banjo public. I am also a huge fan of Buffalo Bills in the house.
00:46:26
Speaker
Well, before we fully jump into talking about your MTV Unplugged episode, I'd like to first talk a little bit about that busy and exciting late 91, early 92 window for you guys. So even before your debut album was released in early 92, at least where I lived in Atlanta, we were already getting familiar with your voices via Keith Sweat's radio hit, Keep It Coming.
00:46:48
Speaker
What's the story behind how your band went from gigging around Buffalo to singing the hook on such an iconic number one hit before you even had an album? mouth It was actually not only did we sing background, of we wrote the song too. Oh, nice.
00:47:04
Speaker
It was through our manager. he i guess Jerr can probably tell you a little more detail than I can, but as far as I remember, we were in the studio and they came in, heard the song, and he was like, yo, I gotta do this song. But go ahead, Jerr, you can take over.
00:47:16
Speaker
It was actually one of the songs we didn't use for our upcoming album on Columbia Records. Wow. Our manager, Lionel Joe, he was tight with Key. So we had just came home, shot the video for Live and Learn and all of that.
00:47:28
Speaker
We in the hood showing everybody, still got the editing numbers on Live and Learn video. Nice. And I don't know how they found out where we were, but we were at a former member's house, Al Overton. Matter of fact, he probably started the group.
00:47:40
Speaker
And phone rang and Al like, hey, this is for y y'all. wow And Lana was on the phone at Al Overton's house. If y'all know the connection to that, it's highly impossible. But he was like, hey, Keith Sweat wants to cut keep it coming.
00:47:56
Speaker
Wow. Get here. Like, yep. I'm like, hold up, what? and And I remember when we ah met him, it was like surreal because this is Keith Sweat. Right. And I remember remember the moments where we used to have him sing like Steve Arrington songs.
00:48:15
Speaker
ah Beef was number one. So we came out of nowhere. it was all other big artists, all other big producers on it. And we came through out of nowhere. and just I'm still shocked. We were the last song and ended up being the first single and the name of the album and number one and platinum. So. That was huge. Yeah, we were big Keith Sweat fans at my school where I was growing up. In fact, when Mariah put her album out and Can't Let it Go you know was on it, we were like, that sounds like Keith Sweat's make it last forever forever. Come on now. What are you doing, Mariah? Well, ah with the ninety s sort of um you know pop R&B, New Jack Swing landscape being so closely associated with solo acts and vocal groups, How do you feel being an actual band that played your own instruments, wrote your own songs? How did that set you guys apart within your genre? like you know I know there was Tony, Tony, Tony and Mint Condition and all that, but you guys really stood out as being like, oh, this is not just singers, like this is a band.
00:49:14
Speaker
um It was the way we grew up. you know That was the way we grew up as a band. he goes So what happened was in Buffalo, there were a lot of bands who had singers, you know, sort of be a band and four or five singers.
00:49:27
Speaker
And we were all always like, you know, singers will sing. So, you know, that's what we did. We ended up just putting our own band together. My cousin actually was in the band at first, too. And he was he was our lead singer. band You know, that's that's how we grew up, you know. And then, like I said, you had the time.
00:49:45
Speaker
and and and groups like that. And that was like a model for us, you know, because those days up front, the group behind him playing the song and singing the background. So that's, like I said, that's how we grew up. um I think it set us apart because there weren't a lot of those groups that could play. I shouldn't say couldn't play, but they didn't play.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. you know, and we played and we sung. You know, had somebody else ask me a couple of weeks ago, How were you able to play on sound and Throw rap in there. We was playing guitars and rapping too. That was coming. Yeah.
00:50:23
Speaker
Because what happened with the rap thing is we looked at it like this. That was when, you know, that was the the the infant stages of sampling. So we were noticing that the the hip hop artists were sampling R&B artists. yeah So we were like, you know what we're going to We're going to sample hip hop artists. There you go. And then that's what we did. You know, so we we would find, you know, the hottest joint, you know, or something that fit what we were writing to go into what we were doing. And we would use some of the same breaks that a lot of the hip hop artists and producers were using then. So that was, you know, a whole different part for, like I said, for for what we did compared to some of the other bands and groups that were out there.
00:51:08
Speaker
And not to mention, you also had a little bit of choreography, too. I saw you jumping around a lot on there, too. And that's what it was. Once again, doing that that's a part of how we grew up in music, because in music, you had to have a show. You couldn't just...
00:51:24
Speaker
Play. Nobody wants to see somebody just play. I can just listen to a record. But coming to a show is a different thing where you see somebody on stage doing something purpose purposefully for your entertainment. You know, totally different experience for you you know as an audience. Because I've been on both sides of being on stage and being a member of the audience going, so...
00:51:44
Speaker
so Right? yeah There it is. Get you a band that can do both. Yep. We we always wanted to be a self-contained band. Just do it all. Yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
Plus, I can remember like a two-year span I've seen live like Rick James, Prince, Michael Jackson, and the Fresh Fast LL. I saw all of that. It's in a year. It's like, yo, how can we combine all of this shit? I love all of this, so we can do all of this. Right, exactly. i love hearing those inspirations. i can see it all. every Every band that you guys are mentioning, I'm like, yep, I can hear that. I can hear that. That's amazing.
00:52:16
Speaker
Moving into 1992, you guys kicked off the year by releasing your debut album in January. Live and Learn started climbing both the R&B and the pop charts, which was amazing. And you started showing up all over TV. Arsenio, The Tonight Show, Soul Train. What are your memories about that whole, you know, whirlwind experience of 92? It was insane, especially the first big cause probably MTV Unplugged. Like we're the industry six weeks.
00:52:49
Speaker
I seen Elton John and all the legends like, dude, I didn't want to feel like we're not worthy, but that's MTV Unplugged. Yeah. But it was, I i don't know. It was like a dream. Like couldn't believe it. Yeah. Y'all always looked like you were always having such fun as well. Like, uh, I know it seemed like you didn't really even have enough time to get jaded, but like, if you watch any of those videos from y'all's TV performances around that area, it was just like insane joy and talent coming off the stage. It was always so much fun to watch.
Touring and Memorable Performances
00:53:18
Speaker
We laughed ourselves to sleep every night. Yes. Yes. It was so surreal.
00:53:23
Speaker
Dead tired of the studio. Poked me at the red light. Right. Looking forward to red lights. You get a little, a couple seconds of a nap. That was, that was also part of us growing as a band. You know, we understood each other. There was never this big, like, you know, you're about these bands that have these crazy fights between members and put the back and forth and animosity. It was never.
00:53:46
Speaker
ever yeah You know, we were always just like, that was funny or that was really funny, you know, and and that's how we, you know, got down in that. I think that that that came from us.
00:53:57
Speaker
You know, people would would get that vibe from us because that's what we were. You know, we were just some, you know, we were like, ja i wait, I'm wearing a hat again. It's funny. i even remember ah the Saturday that you guys were on Soul Train when we got back to school, Don Cornelius, we remember said something so funny. He just, after you guys got done playing, he came over and he just goes, Joe Public, quite a band. and So we said quite a band for like six months after that. quite a band So, well, let's get into your actual MTV Unplugged episode. That's what we're here to talk about today.
00:54:31
Speaker
um So this one was filmed on the exact same day as the Pearl Jam and Mariah Carey episodes. So like, let's start with that point since this was just right before the show really blew up with a couple months later, Mariah released her cover of I'll be there as a huge radio single that summer.
00:54:49
Speaker
And Eric Clapton put out his episode as an album a little bit later in the year. But when you guys got the call to play, was Unplugged on your radar, you know, already? For me, hell no. It was too early. I need three albums for that type of stuff, you know?
00:55:04
Speaker
We knew what Unplugged was, but like Jared said, we weren't thinking, oh, yeah. So then we're going Unplugged. Then after that, we're going to Arsenio. Then we're going to do Jay Leno. You know, not none of that. Yeah, yeah. None of that, Will.
00:55:15
Speaker
We were just, like I said, just like still in disbelief mode that it was all happening. Because I still remember when i first got home, like after everything, and then the video came on TV.
00:55:27
Speaker
And I was just like, I know that song. And I'm like, holy crap. We're on TV. And it was just, once again, just just pure, like, un-unbelievability.
00:55:38
Speaker
You know, because you see all your artists, you see the artists that you admire, and they're you're now in the same places that they are. So... And what was amazing, we knew we had to play everything like live and without synthesizers and samples and stuff.
00:55:56
Speaker
And we just had to arrange everything. And it it took a little time, but we got it together. We were excited about that. I remember we had to buy ah or get acoustic instruments.
00:56:07
Speaker
And everyone was like, thanks, Sam Ash.
00:56:12
Speaker
Shout out to Sam Ash. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's actually that's a great segue. My next question is specifically about I'd have to go back and look, but I think I saw every single time you guys were on TV playing live and learn. But the MTV Unplugged version is so cool and unique to me because not just because of the acoustic instruments, but because it feels like y'all really created this like. um alternate live version that stripped away those like fun ornamental samples like the rebel without a pause tea kettle sample and you know the Jesse Jackson and James Brown vocal samples like those you would hear those whenever you guys played like Arsenio and the tonight show. Right. But like those weren't on Unplugged. You guys really like highlighted the melodic bones of the song and like that sped up Parliament bass line groove and moving that Steely Dan horn sample over to the keyboards. Like talk to us about the process of reworking and rearranging Live and Learn for the Unplugged version versus how you did for other television appearances. First of all, we were a top 40 band first, like club band. So that's what we did for a living as kids. okay So Boyz II Men and Play Behind Shinese, it was just what we did, you know, before Live and Learn. So yeah. With Live and Learn, like when you talked about um how the ornamental things were stripped away, we always wrote songs off melodies.
00:57:35
Speaker
we knew it had to be a strong melody. Because if it's not something that they're going to remember, they're not going to remember anything about it. And I always make that example to people. Whenever you can't remember a song, you can remember the melody. You know it goes up and and and dad then i think that and then the words will come to you because you remember the melody.
00:57:54
Speaker
So we were always conscious of always trying to make sure we meld our melodies. And that's what would make it easy for us to have that song be what it was on the album and be what it was like. Because instrumentally, it was strong. melodically it was strong and it was you know it was there already so there's nothing you could do you could sing that song just clapping and you know because that melody is gonna gonna get you every time so that was like i said i don't think we i don't think it was a specific thing that we did
00:58:27
Speaker
but i think it was it was specifically the scent of the way that we wrote our songs. Everything had to stand a piano or acoustic guitar test. You have to be able to sing that song just at the piano, all of them, period. Without auto tune.
00:58:42
Speaker
Right. Yeah, that's true. Don't tell T-Pain, but yeah, without audio, it's all live. Yeah. I love that that. That's one of the things that I love so much about what MTV Unplugged was doing back in the day, because like so much of the time people just talk about like, oh yeah, that was a show where people play it acoustically. And it's like, man, it was so much more than that. I really feel like it was like a a songwriting showcase. And you saw that the most, like the year before you guys, when they did the Yo Unplugged hip hop version. Yeah. Hip hop and R&B is always the ones where I feel like that's really where MTV Unplugged like highlighted the the beauty ah of of songwriting. Like, you know, Jay-Z in 2001, when he played with the Roots, you're just like, man, seeing all these samples get moved over to like live acoustic instrumentation. It's just, yeah, like genius on full display. And so like, I love that y'all's Unplugged episode is a part of that lineage as well. Thank you. So do we. Yeah.
00:59:38
Speaker
So I know you guys also played i Miss You, um which ended up being your next top 10 single on the R&B chart. um But I don't think that one made the 30 minute broadcast episode. So I was just curious, do y'all remember if you reworked that one as well in any special way? Because I've never heard the unplugged version of I Miss You.
00:59:56
Speaker
um I think it's just like J.R. said, you know, the song has to pass the piano test. So as long as we can sing it with with just playing the piano, you know, like I said, it wasn't anything specific that we did, but we knew that we still had to make sure that the song resonated from what people remember from the record.
01:00:17
Speaker
No, and that that was it. It wasn't, like said, not anything specific to like, okay, we're going to do it like this for Unplugged, but more just into the sense of what Jerry was talking about, us being a top 40 band. So we're going to look at it like we're going to do Joe Public's song, you know, so.
Collaborations and Rehearsals for MTV Unplugged
01:00:33
Speaker
You know, athletes talk about how that was my NFL moment. MTV Unplugged was probably ours, yo. You in the big time moment. because yeah that's wonderful Looking at Mariah Carey's setup was like, ooh, we're her janitor today.
01:00:50
Speaker
Look at her stuff. Right. Did y'all actually stay around for, um, like, did y'all see any of the Mariah Carey or the Pearl Jam episode? Nope. Not a lot. Yeah. We were kicked out. Oh, okay. They watched all of our shit though, but they watched all of our shit. Oh, I bet. Yeah, I bet.
01:01:09
Speaker
They were impressed too. Yeah, I love it. It's one of the things that I ask every artist that played Unplugged because it still just amazes me that we got all these great performances, not only for what was ostensibly at the beginning, just a television show. Like we think of MTV Unplugged albums now, but at the beginning it was just a television show. And then also like MTV, like they're a factory. They're like, hey, we're we're doing three or four of these amazing episodes today. I'm just like, man, what a day at the office. that would that would mean That's what Tiny Desk is right now. Exactly. Ah, great point. You see Tiny Desk and you're like...
01:01:41
Speaker
I can't believe they have George Clinton on tiny desk. Right. So just packed away in in between the bookshelves and it's just like, yeah, pure music, yeah pure performance, pure talent is so true. yeah So moving into a sort of like from y'all's part of the episode to backing boys to men and Shawnee's. First off, I just have to say that the unplugged Motown Philly is my absolute favorite version of an already classic song because of that sort of like increased tempo and the hyped up energy that you guys brought to it. Thank you. yeah What drove that creative decision to kind of crank the song up a few notches? Cause it seemed like all the guys were used to doing ballads. And so you guys cranking up Motown Philly was amazing. I loved it so much. Back to the club stuff. Like, you see Michael Jackson, Prince, they pick it up just a little when they're live. And that's where the energy comes. and that That's just that something that we we noticed growing up as a band is that when we saw someone live, it was a little faster. Especially Michael. Yeah. A little more energy to it. You know, and being like JR said, because it sped up, it's a little more energy. Yeah. feels a little more urgent you know so we we knew like you said they they're they're known for ballads not that i mean motown philly was dope but you know boys the men is known for ballads so to have a chance to even do that was fun for us yeah because you know like i said we we want to jam on stage that's what we want to do ballads are cool but we want to get the funk going on stage
01:03:11
Speaker
And y'all did it. I mean, one of the few times you see most the time when they go to the crowd shots at Unplugged, everybody's just like chilling in the seats, enjoying the performance. And yeah y'all had like the first couple rows like up around on Motown Philly. And I was like, wow, that it takes a lot to get folks out of their seat MTV Unplugged. Yeah.
01:03:26
Speaker
So I was also curious when you were sort of rehearsing and and playing these songs for Boyz Men and Shonice, you know, those were already like hits on the radio. I Love Your Smile by Shonice and Boyz Men is so hard to say goodbye to yesterday. When you guys were rehearsing them and figuring them out, did y'all pick up anything new songwriting wise about what made these songs work so well when you're playing these hits of other artists?
01:03:50
Speaker
um I think it was it was. more it's solidified new that melody structure hook let's go perform you know perform the song you know and that's that's how I always see you know a lot of the hit songs is you know it's first of all that melodies they usually You know, and then like I said, after that, it's going to be the hook of whatever that whatever is being sung on top of that melody. And like one of my um examples for that now is Bruno Mars, you know, because he's really good at giving you a great hook, but then giving you great lyrics on top of the hook, you know.
01:04:32
Speaker
And like I can said, for me, that kind of solidified doing their songs because it was like, OK, this is kind of what we sing, like what we do. OK, cool. Let's go. You know, oh it was beautiful. and That's true. And back to y'all's point about playing and performing and having fun on stage at the same time. I mean, that's he puts on a beginning to end show. That's for sure. Also, just ah sort of logistically, I was curious to to learn these other artists songs, because not only backing Boyz II Men and Sean East on MTV Unplugged, but backing Criss Cross on Arsenio. When things like that happen logistically, do the bands like send you the chart so you know exactly what to do? Are you guys like, you know, listening to the CDs and trying to figure it out? Did you just say chart?
01:05:12
Speaker
And from the streets. start That's a dirty word, right? you're like good word Charts are for losers. Just put the damn song on that's just I'm picturing you guys hunched over the guitars and the bass and the keyboards like rewind. do two do ah you know know That's how my dad thinks it is. He thinks we still record like the old Motown and stuff.
01:05:36
Speaker
Everybody the same around the mic. Right now scoring. I said, Dad, it would take me three weeks to score this song. Live and learn. Let me just give you the chord changes and let's roll with it.
01:05:48
Speaker
do it It just goes back to our background of being a top 40 band at first. Yes. you know Because we have to have songs with you know long sets, you know so we have to learn a whole bunch of songs.
01:06:01
Speaker
so yeah Can you imagine all the charts we would have had to have to have are you know a 10 or 12 song set? Right. So we just learn learn by ear, learn how they play. And once again,
01:06:12
Speaker
For me, at least, songs are kind of quote unquote the same, you know. So, you know, there's going to be your intro. There's going to be a hook. There's going to be a chorus. There's going to another chorus. There's going to be a bridge. There's going to be, a you know, so that kind of made it easy for us to go. OK, this one has but blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's going to be the key of A minor.
01:06:30
Speaker
OK, we're good. Yeah. Oh, that's such a good point. Cause even like just my mind's going back as you're talking, thinking about the unplugged version of live and learn, like even reworking that little riff y'all do in the intro and the outro, just to be like, we're not up here playing with the CD going on in the background. Like this, this is another way to have some fun and show you, this is a, not only a unique experience to this night and this performance, but that also the folks watching, they're, they're getting something new that maybe when y'all play it the next night, you're playing it a different way that way too. It just, yeah. It takes a lot of talent and cohesion as a band to be able to pull that off so much. Definitely. Fish style.
01:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. Exactly. same Well, it's funny. You mentioned Motown earlier. And so I actually was curious, you know, since it was unplugged, all three acts, you know, also combined to do a really cool one time only cover, which was kind of a precedent for unplugged. You guys did Marvin Gaye's Mercy Mercy Me. um How did everybody land on picking that specific song and and how hard or easy was it to to all pull together, not just necessarily just you guys as the instrumentation, but, you know, with the vocalist and everything as well? You know, J.R., you would notice.
01:07:39
Speaker
It was like it was yesterday. No, yeah First of all, the MTV rehearsal unplugged was on my birthday. I remember that. Oh, nice. And somebody from MTV said, you know, we need to do a whole song where everybody, you know, Shawnees and Boyz II Men.
01:07:54
Speaker
So somebody shouted out the Mercy song and... Out comes cue cards. We're learning on the spot. They are writing out the lyrics, the music's playing. And we also had two great musicians with us, Kenny and Eric. They are like guys we grew up with, went to school with. And they were a supporting band.
01:08:12
Speaker
We all from the clubs, all from that. So we were just learning another song, you know, because we're Yeah. We used to do like six nights a week, three shows a night for but years. Oh, nice. We were programmed to do this. This is what we do. This is old hat. yeahp what's song What song do you want? Let's roll. Yeah. what It was nothing. no Yeah.
01:08:32
Speaker
Well, you guys pulled it off because, I mean, that's not an easy song just to, if nothing else, that Bob Babbitt bass line throughout that song. That's That's a hard one, just to drop in the middle of anything. but And I've always been surprised that one didn't make it to the radio because, yeah, you guys nailed it, and Shawn Easton Boisterman nailed the vocals. it's just plus Our parents played that stuff. you know We were learning it while they were playing it. so It's in your bones at that point. Yeah, that's easy. yeah Well, it's funny. You mentioned Kenny and Eric. I feel like you're you're setting up my segues. It's almost like i having to pay you to set up every next question. but The other two guys you played with, so I know like Kenny Hawkins, he he worked with Rick James and also played guitar on Eddie Murphy's party all the time, one of the greatest jams of all time.
01:09:15
Speaker
And then I was curious about Eric Williams that you guys had on keyboards. That was a different Eric Williams than the one that went on to join Blackstreet a few years later, right? Maybe that was his son, Eric Jr. Yeah, that was his son. Yeah, that's his son. we have a center-face keyboards another center-face bass right okay yeah yeah they're phenomenal too yes okay cool okay very cool because i was like i think eric was only on like two black street albums i'd have to i'd have to go back and look it up but he's back with them now so okay maybe this is somebody yeah eric eric and kitty were just phenomenal mean even our drummer mike you know like our band was top notch you know and that was because once again we knew what we needed and what was going to be expected, you know?
01:09:59
Speaker
So we didn't want to come up there half-assed and, you know, looking like, oh my gosh, this let's play the record. Don't just, you guys just stop. Right, right. Our roadies were phenomenal too. They could have toured with anybody. They were, we were just surrounded by talent. Yep. Gifted. Embarrassment of riches, right? That's great. Anybody could have stepped in and played. Very cool. Well, um to close things out, I wanted to get y'all's thoughts on, you know, sort of MTV Unplugged overall, the the show, the
Legacy and Impact of MTV Unplugged for Joe Public
01:10:30
Speaker
episodes, the albums. What do you think the show's legacy is within that live musical performance television space?
01:10:36
Speaker
um I think it's always going to be like right at the top because of the fact that the artist that they would get to perform on there, even if sometimes it wasn't unplugged.
01:10:47
Speaker
still you know you have the artist there you have the aircraft and the line carries and all that stuff so you know that's going to be you can't overlook that you can't go oh it was okay you know you could say that if the performances were just okay but the performances spoke for themselves so i think it's always going to be at the top when you start talking about you know shows with live performances and that was even i think even a little more um special because it was acoustic. Yeah.
01:11:15
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Just that raw performance without synthesizers and how they actually did their performances in the raw. And it's just amazing.
01:11:27
Speaker
And every time I think about um going back, it's the episode with LL Cool J. Yes, that was. I love that. That's my favorite. That was Yeah. Right. Yeah. That, that, uh, I don't know how they did that unplugged episode in 91 then didn't have like two to three hip hop shows every season because I was like, y'all nailed the formula in only your second season. Like, cause that one is just beginning to an amazing day. La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, MC Light, like man, every performance on that episode, you're right. And and i point to the LL performance and also the Pearl Jam performance, since we're talking about the same night you guys recorded. They did a version of their song Porch, and then LL Cool J's mama said, knock you out. Anytime people think acoustic music has to be chill or low key or that you can't like amp it up into the stratosphere, that you have to have electric guitars, I'm like, those two performances right there, that's all you can show. It's the energy that's there. So anyways. It's energy. That's what it is. That's what it That's what they're experiencing. They may not understand that and and think that it's because of the good time, blah, blah, blah. but it's yeah giving the energy of those people. They're giving out that energy, you know, and when that energy is there, you either accept it or get out of the way, know, because it's going to just come straight at you. And that's what the reason that out of everything that I miss about being an artist, performing live yeah is the best part. That is just the best part, hands down. Studio is fun. You know, shooting videos is awesome. Doing interviews is great.
01:13:03
Speaker
But nothing, I mean, nothing beats performing. Nothing. That's beautiful. That, that joy, you can watch any video of you guys performing and it's, it's on your faces. It's coming out of your fingers and the performance. And so, yeah, I love hearing you actually say that because that just, it feels so genuine too. It's not like you're like, Hey, let's let's try to coax the crowd into having a good time. You're like, we're having a good time. So you can either join us or not, but we're going a good time regardless. That's amazing.
01:13:29
Speaker
That's amazing. All right. So one final Joe public question, not unplugged related, um, or really just a memory. So a few years after your MTV unplugged episode, sometime in the mid nineties, I have this vivid memory of buying an NBA jam video game for my Sega Genesis. And it came with a free VHS that had you guys hosting music videos. Did I dream that up or was that? hundred percent true Oh, I remember. how Of course you do.
01:13:58
Speaker
Like it was yesterday. It was like with yesterday. yeah We got the call from our PR Chrissy Murray. Chrissy. Remember k Chrissy Murray from Columbia Records? Hey, NBA wants to come to Buffalo and y'all environment and do a do a piece.
01:14:13
Speaker
so Okay. So they came to Buffalo, shot the piece. It was like any NBA game in the world that y'all want to go to? Just give us one day's notice. Wow. That's a perk right there. We didn't abuse it enough. yeah that is going to use a lot more ah We should have obliterated that. so he's busy too so yeah and i that prior oh We time to i didn't know how big that was until little kids was like a me I don't know how many promo cassettes they made, but like they gave it at the counter. Like when you bought the game, like it just came free or whatever. Wow. And yeah, I remember popping it in and i think it opened with you guys. Like y'all were making like this song on the fly about NBA jam. And I was like, oh my God, it's Joe public. And then like it. go to videos and all this sort of stuff. I remember the only one, even as a kid, because, you know, sometimes as kids, you think older music, it takes you a little bit of time to get into it. I remember the only video that stuck out on there. I was like, what is Luther Vandross doing on here? But he was covering Ain't No Stopping Us. And so it was really good. But I was just like, went from like CNC Music Factory, like G-Love and Special Sauce. And all of a sudden, like Luther Vandross was also on there. Yeah. I'm down. I'm down. We like basketball.
01:15:31
Speaker
Right? Awesome. Well, again, Kevin, JR, Mr. Do, thank you guys so much for your time today, entertaining all of my questions about your MTV Unplugged episode. I genuinely appreciate you coming on the show and talking to me. Oh, no worries at all. Thank you, man. We appreciate you reaching out. It was actually super fun. It was a pleasure.
01:15:52
Speaker
There we go. My immense thanks to Joe Public for taking the time to join the show and reminisce with me about this unique ensemble entry in the unplugged canon, again, that was filmed during such a mind-blowing single-day session of otherworldly unplugged performances.
01:16:07
Speaker
Dip that calendar page call sheet in bronze and hang it in the Louvre, or at least the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I guess. All right, I think that'll do it for this episode. If you'd like to get in touch to share your own Unplugged memories, offer up a correction, ask a question, or connect with the show for any other reason, you can send me an email, unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com, leave a voicemail by calling 234-REVISIT, which is 234-738-4748, or reach out on social media.
01:16:37
Speaker
or reach out on social media As always, please take a moment to follow the pod on your platform of choice so that it'll automatically pop into your feed when it goes live next month.
01:16:48
Speaker
Until then, my friends, be kind to yourself and look out for each other. Unplugged Revisited is a Son of a Butch production. The show is written and hosted by me, Will Hodge.
01:16:58
Speaker
The show is edited by Amanda Hodge and myself. Podcast artwork is by Jordan Ullam, and you can find more of their incredible work at jordanullam.design. That's J-O-R-D-A-N-U-L-L-O-M.design.