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UR015: Mike Inez (Alice In Chains) [1996 MTV Unplugged]
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God-tier grunge bassist Mike Inez (Alice in Chains) joins the show to discuss the band’s equally brilliant and heartbreaking MTV Unplugged episode and album from 1996. Lots of great Alice talk, Seattle scene memories, and EVEN MORE “Friends Don’t Let Friends Get Friends Haircuts” backstory to add to the storied Alice-Metallica lore.
If you dig the show, want to share your own Unplugged memories, ask a question, request a show topic, or connect with the pod for any reason, there are a couple ways you can get in touch:
- You can email me at unpluggedrevisited@gmail.com,
- You can reach out on Bluesky at @willhodge.bsky.social,
- You can leave a voicemail (that’ll maybe get played on the show) by dialing 234-REVISIT (234-738-4748)
Recommended![UR014: Mark Bryan (Hootie and the Blowfish) [1996 MTV Unplugged] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66ea0b235fcf51d2c9a0b7cd/43cbefc3-777c-4d93-9915-92abd82876d2.jpg)
Transcript
Introduction to Unplugged Revisited
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Unplugged. Unplugged. Unplugged. Welcome to Unplugged.
00:00:14
Speaker
Greetings and salutations. Welcome back to Unplugged Revisited, the podcast that celebrates, critiques, and dives deep and into the last three and a half decades of MTV Unplugged. I'm your host, music journalist, pop culture anthropologist, and unplugged obsessive, Will Hodge.
00:00:30
Speaker
Well, friends, it's hard to accurately express just how excited I am about my guest this week. He's a member of one of the most talented and enthralling grunge bands of the entire scene, and more personally to me, one of the most nostalgic, buzz-inducing bands of my middle school and high school years.
00:00:46
Speaker
He also played bass on one of the most awe-inspiring and arresting Unplugged episodes of the show's entire run.
Alice in Chains in the Grunge Scene
00:00:53
Speaker
everybody, this is Mike Inez from Alice in Chains, and you are listening to Unplugged Revisited.
00:00:59
Speaker
I was in 5th grade when I first came across Alice in Chains back in 1991, and my introduction was the Man in the Box music video.
00:01:10
Speaker
I loved how the song seemed somehow both unnerving and invitational. And I remember being really struck by the moody dynamic tension of the two different vocalists, both when they individually traded lines and also when they harmonized together, as well as that really unique sounding guitar riff.
00:01:30
Speaker
I would later find out that that sound was created with a guitar pedal called a talk box, perhaps most well known for being used on songs like Aerosmith's Sweet Emotion,
00:01:47
Speaker
Bon Jovi's Living on a Prayer, and Tupac's California Love.
00:02:00
Speaker
And if memory serves me, I caught the Man in the Box music video not on 120 Minutes, where Alice in Chains would soon become a staple in just another year or so, but instead on the more metal-anchored Headbangers Ball.
00:02:13
Speaker
See, this was right in the window of that early 90s pre-Nevermind mainstream explosion when, as far as guitar-based genres coming out of the eighty s You had these two parallel paths of MTV-friendly hard rock and heavy metal, you know, Guns N' Roses, Metallica, Aerosmith, Ozzy, Van Halen, bands like that, and the college rock underground, REM, Pixies, 10,000 Maniacs, The Cure, Throwing Muses, and so on.
00:02:38
Speaker
And both genres were kind of crossing sonic streams a bit within the burgeoning grunge scene that was bubbling out of the Pacific Northwest, particularly Seattle, Washington. And a little upfront disclaimer, yes, I will be employing the term grunge a little more than normal this episode.
00:02:54
Speaker
And no, the term gar grunge is not exclusively interchangeable with the broader alternative music banner. For example, the grunge band Alice in Chains falls under that larger alternative umbrella, but the alternative band REM doesn't overlap into the grunge subgenre.
00:03:10
Speaker
Okay, s SAT test prep on inclusion in subsets mini digression, now over. At the risk of sounding wildly reductive, the 10,000-foot view of Grunge's sonic footprint is some mixture of punk's unpolished brashness, metal's guitar riffage, college rock's melodic unconventionality, and garage rock's come-as-you-are untamed abandon.
00:03:31
Speaker
Of course, in some cases, Grunge was also informed by some insanely otherworldly vocal ranges, like Soundgarden's Chris Cornell, and some explosively proficient guitar work, like Pearl Jam's Mike McCready.
00:03:43
Speaker
Of course, Alice in Chains would end up serendipitously landing both of those characteristics in spades, sometimes even getting saddled with the quote-unquote alt-metal qualifier. Of the bands that most exemplified grunge's sonic and aesthetic ethos to mainstream audiences, it was the big four of Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden that achieved the largest measures of pop-cultural exposure and commercial successes.
00:04:08
Speaker
And while Nirvana's sophomore album Nevermind is understandably the most cited distillation of the paradigm-shifting turn that grunge inspired across multiple sectors of early 90s mass media and youth culture, it was in fact Alice in Chains' debut album Facelift, released a little over a year earlier, that actually achieved the first major commercial milestone of the genre, being certified gold two weeks before Nevermind was even released.
00:04:34
Speaker
And of course, three of the big four unpack the genre's sonic idiosyncrasies even further by filming their own beautifully bare, unplugged episodes. Pearl Jam in 92, Nirvana in 93, and Alice in Chains in 96.
00:04:48
Speaker
And in the particular case of Alice's signature musical calling cards, singer Lane Staley's broodingly bluesy Howl and Kroon, guitarist Jerry Cantrell's melodic, mixed-metered riffage, and haunting vocal harmonies and countermelodies,
00:05:01
Speaker
bassist Mike Inez's fluid groove-laden growl, and drummer Sean Kinney's propulsive rhythmic glue, they are all highlighted and enmeshed together even more harmoniously during their 96 Unplugged taping, a performance made even more arresting and unparalleled due to Staley's deteriorating health and ongoing struggles with depression and addiction.
00:05:22
Speaker
Sadly, they're unplugged, as moving and masterful and heartbreaking and promising and celebrated as it was would also turn out to be one of their last ever gigs with Staley as their frontman.
00:05:33
Speaker
But I'll get into all that and more in the intersection and my interview with Mike. But first things first, a couple announcements. Announcement 1 Well friends, we've got ourselves another brand new vinyl giveaway.
00:05:48
Speaker
A few episodes back, I announced that on May 9th, Eric Clapton would be releasing a newly remixed, remastered, extended, and enhanced reissue of his 26 million selling Unplugged album from 1992. If you've seen the recent Eric Clapton Unplugged over 30 years later special, this new enhanced edition of the album will feature those day of interview segments interspliced between the songs.
00:06:13
Speaker
as well as a handful of bonus tracks that weren't aired in the original broadcast nor included in the original album release. This expanded 17-song collection will be released in both double CD and triple vinyl versions, and I've partnered with Clapton's label to give away a copy of each.
00:06:29
Speaker
If you've been a part of any of my previous album giveaways, you probably already know the super easy drill for entering. Send an email to unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com telling me one thing you like or a memory you have or something like that about Clapton's Unplugged episode or album.
00:06:45
Speaker
Put contest in the subject line and specify if you want to enter the CD or vinyl giveaway. You can totally send a separate email if you want to enter each. And as a bonus, you can double your chances by rating and reviewing the podcast wherever you stream it and attach a screenshot of that to your email.
00:07:02
Speaker
Super easy, right? Get those emails in quick because I'm planning to announce both winners in the next episode. Announcement 2 Okay, this one's a bit of a behind-the-scenes, inside baseball programming scheduling update.
00:07:14
Speaker
I don't usually get too in the weeds of my personal shenanigans, but as many of you may already know if we're friends or if you follow me on social media, music journalism is a passion project side hustle of mine that has to find space amidst my regular 9-to-5 gig and writing my dissertation for my PhD in history and blah blah blah.
00:07:32
Speaker
So, I wanted to go ahead and announce that I'll be closing out Season 1 with my June 4th episode, taking the summer off to hyper-focus on my dissertation, and returning to kick off Season 2 on September 3rd. That's the Wednesday after Labor Day here in the States.
00:07:47
Speaker
That means there'll be a couple more Season 1 episodes, May 21st and June 4th, then a couple months hiatus, and then we'll hit the ground running with a new season of Artist Interviews and Unplugged Stories on September 3rd.
Origins and Success of Alice in Chains
00:08:00
Speaker
Okay, let's get into the Alice in Chains Unplugged intersection. And just a heads up, I'll do my best to try to move through this one kind of quick because my chat with Mike, along with him being just a super kind, super funny, super insightful dude, he was also very generous with his time and stories.
00:08:16
Speaker
So I'm really excited to get into that on the other side of the intersection. Alrighty, here we go. The story of Alice in Chains crossing paths with MTV Unplugged.
00:08:27
Speaker
Like many of its fellow grunge compatriots, Alice in Chains first emerged from the hard rock-infused primordial ooze of the late 80s Seattle rock scene. Musical twin flames Lane Staley and Jerry Cantrell first met while they were both in other bands and struck up an immediate friendship.
00:08:44
Speaker
After Cantrell's group imploded, Staley connected him with drummer Sean Kinney, who just so happened to be dating the sister of another musician Cantrell had his sights set on, bass player Mike Starr.
00:08:55
Speaker
By happenstance, both Cantrell and Kinney had both played in separate bands with Starr over the years. So the fortuitous triangulation was quickly locked in and the trio soon started playing together.
00:09:06
Speaker
At the same time, Cantrell and Staley had made a deal to tentatively join each other's bands. But after Staley's band also imploded, he fully committed to playing with Cantrell, Kenny, and Starr.
00:09:17
Speaker
The newly formed foursome decided to take their name from a revised version of Staley's old band, Alice in Chains, that's and abbreviated via 80s metal stylization to be just the letter N with an apostrophe, much like Guns N' Roses, though the synonymous timelines evidence parallel thinking more than any inspired copying.
00:09:36
Speaker
By April of 87, the now prepositionally named Alice in Chains original lineup was locked in. The following year, Alice recorded a set of demos called the Treehouse Tapes, which eventually scored the band a deal with Columbia Records.
00:09:50
Speaker
Across late 89, early 90, they recorded a very heavy metal-esque sounding three song EP titled We Die Young.
00:10:02
Speaker
Though it wasn't commercially released for sale to the public, Columbia distributed the promo-only EP to radio during the summer of 1990, and the title track became a minor rock radio hit.
00:10:20
Speaker
The enthusiastic response to the We Die Young EP caused Columbia to fast track the rest of the songs the band had been working on, and their debut album, Facelift, was released on August 28, 1990.
00:10:32
Speaker
Two of the three tracks from the We Die Young EP were carried over to Facelift, but it was the new song, Man in the Box, that really put the album on the map when it was released as a single in early 91.
00:10:50
Speaker
Now, due to the early critical and commercial successes of Facelift, climbing up to just outside the top 40 on the Billboard 200 and being the first grunge album to be certified gold, and Man in the Box getting heavy rotation on MTV and eventually being nominated for a Best Hard Rock Performance Grammy, Alice deservedly gets a lot of credit for helping to mainstream the grunge movement.
00:11:12
Speaker
But in that late 90, early 91 window, they were also still very much entrenched in the hard rock and metal scene. They did separate tours with Megadeth and Van Halen and also got picked to open the three-month North American leg of the thrash metal Clash of the Titans tour with Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax.
00:11:30
Speaker
In rock and roll news, there's a major speed metal tour out on the road right now, a multi-headliner extravaganza uniting Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, and Alice in Chains. It's billed as the Clash of the Titans, and it goes like this.
00:11:41
Speaker
At the 91 MTV VMAs, Man in the Box was even nominated for Best Metal Hard Rock Video alongside bands like ACDC, Guns N' and Roses, Warrant, Aerosmith, and others.
00:11:53
Speaker
But 91 also proved to be an extremely dynamic and pivotal year for the ascendancy of grunge, especially that fall. Pearl Jam released their debut album 10 in August, Nirvana released their sophomore album Nevermind in September, and Soundgarden released their third album, Bad Motor Finger, in October.
00:12:11
Speaker
Alongside Alice's Man in the Box, the other three grunge ambassadors to the masses were likewise infiltrating late 91 MTV and radio with their own massively successful singles as well.
00:12:23
Speaker
Pearl Jam's Alive became a dual top 20 hit on both the Rock and Alternative charts. Soundgarden's Jesus Christ Pose and OutShined helped Bad Motor Finger crack the top 40 on the Billboard 200, and Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit helped Nevermind become the first grunge album to go platinum just two months after it was released, and by January of 92, it had dethroned Michael Jackson's Dangerous record to become the first grunge album to hit number one on the Billboard 200.
00:12:54
Speaker
After all this rising tide lifts all boats genre table setting that took place throughout the previous year, Alice was poised for a massive 1992, and man did they deliver.
00:13:04
Speaker
They kicked off the year by releasing a five song EP called Sap in early February, which showed an impressive maturation of the band's musicality across a couple different elements. It featured more nuanced acoustic instrumentation, as well as the first lead vocal performance by Cantrell on the song Brother.
00:13:27
Speaker
Cantrell also shared lead vocal duties with Staley on an early version of their later hit, Got Me Wrong. While on the hidden track, Love Song, the whole band ended up showing off a little multi-instrumentalist flair, with Cantrell playing bass, Staley playing drums, Starr playing guitar, and Kenny singing lead and playing piano.
00:13:45
Speaker
Though the unserious serenade is definitely meant to be more jokey than jingle.
00:13:55
Speaker
The Sap EP also showcased a bit of the band's friendly musical connections, as a couple fellow genre mates, Soundgarden's Chris Cornell and Mudhoney's Mark Arm, showed up on the song Right Turn.
00:14:06
Speaker
I'm out low as I can get I'd leave but I can't forget while rock royalty Anne Wilson of Heart lends her legendary pipes to the songs Brother and Am I Inside.
00:14:30
Speaker
In September, the band appeared on screen in the Cameron Crowe film Singles, which some may categorize as an iconographic Seattle-based rom-com, but I consider to be the accompanying film to a truly outstanding soundtrack.
00:14:43
Speaker
Side note, I don't know if it's really a hot take or not, but when it comes to scene snapshotting, culture commentary, quote-unquote 90s films, I'll personally take Reality Bites 99 times out of 100. see, Laney, this is all we need.
00:14:59
Speaker
couple of smokes, a cup of coffee, and a little bit of conversation. You and me and five bucks. You've got it. Okay, back to singles.
00:15:10
Speaker
Alice actually appears in the film, playing portions of the songs It Ain't Like That and Wood on stage at Club DeSoto while a couple scenes with Campbell Scott, Kira Sedgwick, and Matt Dillon play out.
00:15:21
Speaker
My friend and I have this long-running argument, and here it is. This isn't when you come to a place like this. You can't just be yourself. You have to have act. So anyway, I saw you standing there.
00:15:35
Speaker
I thought, A, I could just leave you alone. I could come up with an act or C, I could just be myself.
00:15:45
Speaker
I chose C. What do you think?
00:15:52
Speaker
I think that A, you have an act. Uh-huh. And that B, not having an act is your act.
00:16:04
Speaker
More importantly, they appeared on the film's truly outstanding soundtrack of some of Washington State's finest, including both some classic rock legends like Jimi Hendrix and Hart via their Lovemongers side project, and also many members of the incoming class of grunge greats like Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Screaming Trees, and the painfully gone-too-soon Mother Love Bone.
00:16:28
Speaker
Chloe don't know better Speaking of Mother Love Bone, the song Alice contributed to the single's soundtrack was Wood, the homophonically titled tribute to MLB frontman Andrew Wood, who sadly died of a heroin overdose in early 1990.
00:16:46
Speaker
And to my point about the film pretty much playing second fiddle to the soundtrack, the CD was actually released in June, close to three months before the film was released in theaters, and Wood was released as the soundtrack's lead single three weeks ahead of the CD even being in stores.
00:17:02
Speaker
It was a massive radio hit and MTV mainstay throughout the summer and fall of 92, and quickly became one of the band's signature hits that remains a fan favorite and frequent pre-on-core set-closer to this day.
00:17:24
Speaker
That September, riding the wave of wood already having been a summer smash on radio and MTV, the band released their second full-length album, Dirt, one of the most memorable and consequential albums of both the band's career and also the genre's overall cultural impact.
00:17:40
Speaker
While there were a few external elements that somewhat informed the album's darker tone, like Grunge's mainstream commercialization, the downsides of rising fame, comparison and competition amongst other bands in the scene, and being in Los Angeles to record the album when the LA riots broke out following the Rodney King police brutality acquittals,
00:17:59
Speaker
It's reportedly the band's own internal struggles with heroin and alcohol addiction that most deeply colored the writing and recording of some of the album's heaviest and most existential material.
00:18:10
Speaker
A few of the album's tracks, like Sick Man, Junkhead, and Godsmack, found Staley explicitly addressing his heroin use.
00:18:31
Speaker
And two other songs, Hate to Feel and Angry Chair, featured Staley's first solo writing credits and rhythm guitar work. Angry Chair ended up being released as the album's second single, cracking the top 40 on the rock chart and the top 30 on the alternative chart.
00:18:56
Speaker
But I think it was the album's other three singles that most readily established Alice's own unique corner of the grunge and alt-rock sonic ecosystem. First up was Dirt's lead single, Them Bones, which was released in September while the single's soundtrack, Push of Wood, was still making waves.
00:19:16
Speaker
The song's off-kilter 7-8 time signature gave it an immediate sonic thumbprint on radio, and the more conventionally metered chorus, paired with Staley's ever-present ruminations on mortality, provided an equally arresting lyrical hook.
00:19:32
Speaker
I feel so alone, gonna end up a big old Then, after the release of Angry Chair in late 92, Dirt's third and fourth singles, Rooster and Down in a Hole, delivered the band their first top 10 hits in back-to-back succession across 93, very successful and eventful year for the band.
00:19:52
Speaker
Rooster was shipped to radio in February of 93 and made it all the way to number 7, spending almost half a year on the rock charts, and, depending on who you ask, possibly Challenges Man in the Box as the band's signature song.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah!
00:20:15
Speaker
Then, right in between Dirt's last two singles, the band scored another hit soundtrack cut when their trippy, Sabbath-esque What the Hell Have i became a top 20 hit off the platinum selling Last Action Hero soundtrack over the summer.
00:20:35
Speaker
That summer also found them playing to some of their biggest audiences yet, as they co-headlined Lollapalooza 93 alongside Dinosaur Jr., Primus, Fishbone, Rage Against the Machine, Arrested Development, and others. Hi there!
00:20:48
Speaker
welcome back to the headangger's ball the next part of tonight's show is coming to you from lola peusa ninety three And In and then that fall dirt's final single down in a hole was released and went top ten on the rock chart in mid-december during the exact same week that dirt was certified double platinum on its way to eventually going five timestin
00:21:23
Speaker
But let me rewind things
Creative Evolution and Challenges
00:21:24
Speaker
for just a minute. Back to the very beginning of this rewarding 1993, as a significant personnel change occurred amidst the band's multi-pronged pop-cultural climb.
00:21:33
Speaker
In late January 1993, following a show in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, bassist Mike Starr either left the band or was fired, and it depends on who's telling the story as to what the particulars of the situation may or may not have been.
00:21:47
Speaker
I don't necessarily feel like getting into all the nitty gritty back and forth here, especially since many of the individuals that were involved are no longer alive to clear anything up. So I'll just close this story point with a clip of Star himself talking to MTV Brazil as it was happening. Yeah, I'm going to take a break for a little while.
00:22:04
Speaker
Why is that for? um i haven't I haven't had time to spend, ah I haven't ah had enough time to spend with my family lately, so um I feel like i I need to spend some time with my family.
00:22:17
Speaker
Lane took a break last year for a little while, and I just feel like it's necessary for me to spend some time with my family. I haven't been able to do that. My dad's a little sick right now, so i I feel like I should do it right away. In the aftermath of Star's exit, the band picked up bassist Mike Inez, who had been playing in Ozzy Osbourne's band since 1989.
00:22:40
Speaker
Following the Brazil show, Inez joined up with the band in London, playing his first show with them in late January 1993 and jumping right into their European tour with Screaming Trees. Inez's first recording session with the band took place soon after, though it was just a small session to capture the two tracks they contributed to that summer's last Action Hero soundtrack.
00:23:01
Speaker
His first major tour with them was the Lollapalooza 93 co-headlining gig. Here's a clip of Staley playfully joking around about Inez's new gig during a Lollapalooza 93 backstage interview with 120 Minutes host Louis Largent.
00:23:14
Speaker
Now how is how is this guy working out, by the way? He's alright, you know, until we find someone better. he's go He'll do good. Following the frenetic emotional and physical whirlwind of touring behind the successes of Dirt, losing their original bassist, and co-headlining Lollapalooza, the band booked a quick, low-pressure recording session for a week in early September 93 to do a pulse check on their vibes with Inez.
00:23:38
Speaker
Things had been working out extremely well in the live concert settings, but they wanted to see if that would carry over to the creative writing and recording side of things as well. While they didn't exactly head into that week-long recording session with specific material prepared ahead of time, they emerged from that creatively inspired intra-band gelling experiment with a seven-song EP of acoustic-heavy material they called Jar of Flies.
00:24:03
Speaker
We're chasing as friends.
00:24:13
Speaker
The EP was released in late January 1994 and immediately made an impact by becoming the first EP to debut at number one on the Billboard 200 albums chart. Its lead single, No Excuses, showcased some new tonal colors for the sometimes pigeonholed dour and sludgy band, including some syncopated drum textures and quasi-jangly acoustic guitar airiness.
00:24:43
Speaker
No Excuses ended up being the band's first number one hit on the rock singles chart, their first top five hit on the alternative singles chart, and even cracked the top half of the Billboard Hot 100 pop singles chart.
00:24:55
Speaker
The EP's second single, I Stay Away, also landed top ten on rock radio and was even nominated for a Best Hard Rock Performance Grammy. i
00:25:08
Speaker
a
00:25:12
Speaker
The surprisingly successful response to the unassuming Jar of Flies EP seemed to be a promising omen for this new chapter of the band to open 1994 with. It went double platinum in the first two months of its release, on its way to eventual quadruple platinum certification, and even garnered two Grammy nominations overall.
00:25:30
Speaker
The group was booked for both a huge summer tour opening for Metallica, which at the time was big news after they had to cancel some gigs opening for Metallica in the summer of 93, and they were also offered a spot at the huge Woodstock 94 festival slated for that August.
00:25:46
Speaker
More importantly, on the personal side of things, Staley had made the decision to enter rehab to address his heroin addiction. However, soon after returning home from rehab, Staley began using again.
00:25:58
Speaker
The high-profile Metallica tour and Woodstock 94 gig were both cancelled and the band was reported to have actually broken up for a period. On that Metallica note, their disappointment slash anger with Alice in Chains' literal last-minute cancellation, reportedly occurring just the day before the tour started, led to the band callously mocking Staley's addiction struggles on stage while sarcastically playing a bit of Alice's man in the box.
00:26:36
Speaker
But the longtime friends also invited Jerry Cantrell to join them on stage to play for Whom the Bell Tolls at the August 94 Oklahoma City stop. Little son of rooster here.
00:26:48
Speaker
This is Jerry Cantrell. He wants to come and jam with you, man. And we're going to make some big noise here. Boom! Boom!
00:26:58
Speaker
Boom!
00:27:05
Speaker
So clearly the whole friendship dynamic between the bands is quite storied and complex, and this won't be the last you hear about it in this episode. Overall, Alice ended up only playing one show in 94, a small four-song acoustic mini-set at a benefit for Fishbone co-founder and bassist Norwood Fisher that took place in Los Angeles in early January.
00:27:26
Speaker
Here's a small snippet of the band trying out No Excuses live for the first time during the soundcheck for that show.
00:27:41
Speaker
During the band's brief breakup slash hiatus, Staley participated in the quasi-supergroup Mad Season, which also featured Pearl Jam's Mike McCready, Screaming Trees' as Barrett Martin, and The Walkabout's John Baker Saunders. They only released one album, Above, and scored a double top 10 hit on rock and alternative radio with the song River of Deceit.
00:28:03
Speaker
My pain You're self-chosen
00:28:12
Speaker
While the album was an interesting side project for all involved, I think for most people, and most notably myself, it really just made you ache to hear some new Alice in Chains. And in the fall of 94, we did get some new Alice.
00:28:24
Speaker
Well, kinda. When the black and white, Kevin Smith-created indie comedy Clerks was released in October, a new version of Alice's Got Me Wrong originally recorded for their 92 EP Sap, appeared in the film and on the soundtrack.
00:28:38
Speaker
It even got a singles push and went all the way to number 7 on the rock chart and hit just outside the top 20 on alt rock radio.
00:28:51
Speaker
By spring of 95, the band had reconciled enough to get back into the studio, where they started working on what would become their third full-length record. The self-titled offering would eventually be released on Halloween 95, and found the band moving even further away from their hard rock and metal roots into more alternative atmospherics and melodicism.
00:29:11
Speaker
Once again, the critical and commercial responses to the album skewed overwhelmingly positive. It debuted at number one on the Billboard 200 Albums chart, went platinum in just a couple months, and two of its singles, Grind and Again, were nominated for back-to-back Best Hard Rock Performance Grammys at the 96 and 97 ceremonies.
00:29:32
Speaker
Hey, let em it again.
00:29:39
Speaker
While the sludgy lead single Grind did its best to address the oceans of ink spilled about the band's ongoing troubles and intrapersonal dynamics,
00:29:59
Speaker
it was actually the follow-up single Heaven Beside You that proved to make the loudest sonic statement, landing top 5 on rock radio and top 10 on the alternative chart.
00:30:18
Speaker
But perhaps it was the album's closer, Over Now, that proved to be the most prescient. From its direct lyrical references to the final straw nature of the band's inner turmoil, to its unsubtle instrumental opening of taps, Over Now put a gigantic question mark right at the end of this otherwise forward-leaning, and dare I say for fans at least, hope-inducing project.
00:30:51
Speaker
I can breathe somehow But unfortunately, many of the band's lingering demons persisted, and the immediate post-release period, outside of heavy rotation on radio and MTV, was marked by more mentions of not touring, more stories of drug use and declining health, and most notably an unflattering February 96 Rolling Stone article that not only focused more on Staley than the other band members, but also featured a cover image of just a close-up of Lane with the headline, The Needle and the Damage Done.
00:31:22
Speaker
Although they didn't immediately tour behind the release of Alice in Chains, there were a couple opportunities to catch them on TV in 96.
MTV Unplugged: An Emotional Milestone
00:31:29
Speaker
They first appeared on the short-lived sketch show Saturday Night Special in late April. did a video for these guys called No Excuses, and afterwards they led me to believe that we'd all become great friends. you know, we had a great time doing the video, and they said, yeah, we'll be great friends, we'll hang out.
00:31:43
Speaker
So I called them when I went to Seattle, I never heard back from called them, I called, never heard back from But I know tonight after the show that we're all going to be really great friends and hang out, right guys? We'll exchange numbers later if we... But we can hang out though, right?
00:31:58
Speaker
Anyway, Alice in Chains. And then again on Letterman in early May. Alice in Chains, there we go, good! But their biggest television appearance of 96 occurred on May 28th, when their equally brilliant and heartbreaking MTV Unplugged first aired.
00:32:19
Speaker
we been We've been waiting a long time to play this show. I'd like to thank you all for coming out to see It means a lot to us. And we're going to have a good time.
00:32:32
Speaker
Play some good songs here. The chilling performance had been recorded back in early April, before the other two TV one-off appearances, making it the first time they had all played together since that four-song acoustic mini-set back in January of 1994, and the first time they had played a full-length show since November of 1993, almost a full two and a half years prior.
00:32:53
Speaker
And before we get into all the amazingly beautiful and stunning high points of the show, let's just face the excruciatingly saddest element head on. At the time, lead singer Lane Staley was in some of the darkest throes of his addiction struggles, and no amount of baggy layered clothing, fingerless gloves, or sunglasses could hide the debilitating toll it was taking on him.
00:33:14
Speaker
His brutally honest songwriting, already at a diary-like level of interior frankness about his feelings and fears, seemed to get ratcheted up tenfold in this bare-bones setting of dynamic, light, and dark dichotomies.
00:33:28
Speaker
Take a song like the arresting opener Nutshell, for example. where the gracefully supporting instrumental waves provided by Cantrell, Kenny, and Inez provide an enchanting sonic underpinning for Staley's brutal confessions of despair and isolation that are warmly wrapped within his hauntingly honeyed delivery, but difficult to emotionally digest coming out of his hollowed, ghostly visage.
00:33:51
Speaker
And yet I fight, and yet I fight this battle
00:34:14
Speaker
And look, I get it. I know I'm running the risk of sounding a bit melodramatic or even grossly over-sensationalizing it a bit here, but there's no two ways about it. Even at the time, without knowing what was to come, this was an emotionally tough performance to stomach, especially because everything else about it was so enjoyable.
00:34:31
Speaker
And even if Lane had been in bad enough shape to totally botch the performance, that would have made it all seem a bit more... don I don't know, emotionally understandable or something like that? But instead, even in his altered and diminished state, some sort of muscle memory took over, and Lane's DNA-level vocal talents blasted through all that fog and fatigue to bewitch the whole set with his own melodic wizardry one more time, all show long.
00:34:57
Speaker
If would...
00:35:05
Speaker
And of course, the whole unplugged performance would garner even more meaningful reverberances in the months and years following the show, with the two most notable events being, first, that summer, when after only four concerts opening for the reunited Kiss, Lane experienced a non-fatal OD after a show, and the band was forced to cancel their remaining gigs and go on an indefinite hiatus.
00:35:28
Speaker
And of course, the second major event occurred on April 19, 2002, when Lane's body was discovered in his home after a suspected overdose from a mixture of heroin and cocaine.
00:35:39
Speaker
Autopsy reports indicated that he may have passed away as much as two weeks prior to his remains being discovered. The massively talented and troubled frontman was only 34 years old at the time of his death.
00:35:51
Speaker
Okay, there is no gentle segue out of that tragically heartbreaking story, so let's just hard pivot back to the incredible legacy Lane left behind in one of his now legendary final performances.
00:36:03
Speaker
From the unplugged side of the story, the Alice in Chains episode and album is one of the most celebrated and off-cited entries in the show's entire catalog. It was recorded at the Brooklyn Academy of Music in early April 96 during the same multi-episode filming session as Seal and Tori Amos,
00:36:21
Speaker
And it was the season's second episode to air after that quite unconventional outdoor unplugged with Hootie and the Blowfish that kicked off the show's seventh season. During the episode, the band repackaged and delivered on an incredible array of some of their most well-known classics like Wood and No Excuses, as well as a trio of dirt hit singles that included Angry Chair, Down in a Hole, and Rooster.
00:37:07
Speaker
They also played a handful of tracks off their most recent self-titled album, including the singles Over Now and Heaven Beside You.
00:37:22
Speaker
See what you came to see. As well as the album cuts Frogs and Sludge Factory, a track that was aesthetically elevated by the onstage lava lamps that perhaps due to them being possibly turned on a little too late, evoked less psychedelic 60s trippiness and more still warming up slow-mo blobbiness.
00:37:44
Speaker
You insult me in my home, you're forgiven this time. They even debuted an extremely brand new, not yet recorded song called The Killer Is Me.
00:38:03
Speaker
The accompanying Alice in Chains' Unplugged album was released that summer and generated two radio hits, with the unplugged versions of Wood cracking the top 20 and over now going all the way to number 4.
00:38:14
Speaker
The album itself hit number 3 on the Billboard 200 and would eventually be certified double platinum. You know it's been on my mind, cause you stand right here looking straight in the eyes.
00:38:31
Speaker
Alice's episode featured many of the conventional unplugged hallmarks, inventive acoustic reimagining of a band's biggest hits and beloved catalog cuts, delivered in a no-overdubs, nowhere-to-hide live setting, in front of an up-close and intimate audience, with incredibly striking stage design and decor.
00:38:48
Speaker
But it also eschewed many other notable unplugged elements, like there were no big-name surprise special guests, and no blockbuster cover songs turned in into hit singles. But both of those characteristics were present in some manner.
00:39:01
Speaker
For example, to help flesh out their quieter, distortionless acoustic versions, they had Scott Olson join them on guitar for the whole show, making it the first and only time Alice performed as a five-piece with Staley as their frontman.
00:39:15
Speaker
Olson was a guitarist and producer whose most notable work at the time had been producing and playing guitar for fellow Seattleites, Heart. And as far as not playing any cover songs, while that is technically accurate, there were smatterings of a few, shall we say, cover snippets.
00:39:30
Speaker
The first example is one of my personal favorite moments of the show, and it takes place in one of those in-between moments right before they played Angry Chair. While Lane strapped on his acoustic and was possibly feeling a little mopey from having to do both Sludge Factory and Down in a Hole twice, Cantrell lightened the mood a bit by playfully diving into a few bars of the country parody song Gloom, Despair, and Agony on Me, made famous on the 70s, 80s country music variety show Hee Haw, which incited the sweetest smile and chuckle between Lane and Jerry.
00:40:02
Speaker
Gloom, despair, agony on me Deep dark depression, excessive misery If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all Gloom, despair, agony on me
00:40:18
Speaker
Cantrell also referenced an old In Living Color sketch featuring David Alan Grier's blues guitarist character Calhoun Tubbs, who sounded like this on In Living Color. See, that's what's so amazing about this man right here.
00:40:31
Speaker
From the minute he took office, he always got himself personally involved in the war on the drugs. He even started his own drug program. Now, you know, I ain't write no song about that, but I think I could right now.
00:40:42
Speaker
Like the hit hit go. That senator knows about drugs. He been a dope head for 30 years. And which Cantrell briefly invoked during the intro to The Killer Is Me.
00:40:54
Speaker
Wrote a song about wanna hear it? you go.
00:40:58
Speaker
The senator don't love no drug program, you been a dope head for 30 years. At two other points in the show, snippets of a couple quick Metallica riffs could be heard as well.
00:41:09
Speaker
Battery, which was played by Cantrell also before Angry Chair.
00:41:22
Speaker
And enter Sandman, which was played by Inez and Kenny before Sludge Factory.
00:41:40
Speaker
Now, speaking of the whole Metallica element of it all, one of the biggest, you know, non-musical stories to come out of the Alice Unplugged episode was the much-mythologized story around the phrase, friends don't let friends get friends haircuts, being written in Sharpie on Mike Inez's acoustic bass.
00:41:59
Speaker
It was not only visible throughout the entire show, but can also clearly be seen on the album's cover art as well. Now, at the time, Metallica was about to release one of the most controversial albums of their career, Lode, and part of the quote-unquote new direction the band was going in sonically was also present in their aesthetics, most notably their newer, shorter haircuts, which was apparently viewed by much of their fanbase as an unpardonable sin of scene rejection.
00:42:26
Speaker
It may be hard to believe for folks who weren't into the U.S. rock scene at the time, but this was a heavily discussed, much ballyhooed, all caps, big deal. And it just so happens that because Metallica was longtime friends with Alice in Chains, or more accurately, at least some members of Metallica were friends with some members of Alice in Chains, the thrash metal legends were actually in the audience, reportedly the front row, for the Alice Unplugged taping.
00:42:53
Speaker
And so, because Metallica already had this whole thing with their haircuts, and they were in the audience that night, and Mike had this curious little haircut-centric Woody Guthrie scribbling on his guitar, the story came out that the whole friends don't let friends get friends haircuts thing was a jab, playful or not, your mileage may vary, directly at Metallica.
Interview with Mike Inez
00:43:14
Speaker
Cantrell didn't exactly help matters when he said this during Metallica's 1998 episode Behind the Music. We were doing the Unplugged in and New York.
00:43:25
Speaker
They all showed up, all four of the guys. They're all sitting in a row and they all had these new short haircuts and stuff. It was pretty funny. So Mike wrote some stuff on his base about friends not letting friends get friends' haircuts.
00:43:36
Speaker
They were all GQ looking at cleaned up and stuff. And even decades later, in 2019, when Cantrell appeared on the It's Electric radio show hosted by Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich, which I should note started out with this relational table setting. So let it be no secret, my first thing I'll throw out here is that I consider you to be one of my best friends. Absolutely. And so their disclaimer has to be said that we do know each other very well. and we've spent um We've had some adventures.
00:44:02
Speaker
A lot of adventures over the last 28 years. Yeah. and I remember even a few of them. Again, Cantrell didn't exactly attempt to clarify or dispel any rumors when Ulrich raised the topic. Friends don't let friends get friends haircuts. Yeah.
00:44:23
Speaker
So all joking aside, that was the back of ah Mike's bass the night you guys played your unplugged gig in. I think it was the front. think it was the front of the bass. What's at the front?
00:44:34
Speaker
I think it was the front of the face. So that was in 96. That was the Metallica haircut era. Yes. and But as you'll hear in my interview with Mike, the truth about the whole thing is actually much, much tamer and initially had nothing to do with Metallica at all.
00:44:49
Speaker
In fact, as it turns out, Metallica was actually the first ones to even think it was about them. So they may have inadvertently started the whole apocryphal mess themselves. But what can I say?
00:45:00
Speaker
As we learned in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance... When the legend becomes fact, print the legend. Speaking of my interview with Mike, let's get into it, right? This may be feeling a bit more like a love letter to Alice in Chains not so secretly masquerading as the intersection.
00:45:14
Speaker
And I'm sure most of you are listening to actually hear Mike talk unplugged and tell his stories. Just one more quick side note, though. Mike is not only one of the kindest, funniest, most insightful, and most genuinely down-to-earth rock stars you could ever hope to have a conversation with,
00:45:29
Speaker
But he's also just a wildly awesome interviewee who knew I would be mind-blowingly stoked to see the Friends Don't Let Friends Get Friends Haircut bass. And so the day before our interview, he actually went over to the band's storage space and pulled it out to show me during our chat.
00:45:45
Speaker
It was a super cool and super thoughtful thing for him to do, and I couldn't be more appreciative of him thinking about the incredibly meaningful experience that gesture provided. Thanks again, Mike. Okay, let us Terry know more, friends.
00:45:58
Speaker
Here's my Unplugged Revisited chat with Alice in Chains bassist, Mike Inez. I'm incredibly stoked to be sitting here today with Mike Inez of Alice in Chains to travel back almost 30 years to discuss the band's musically transcendent and deeply moving MTV Unplugged from 1996.
00:46:15
Speaker
Mike, my immense thanks from both my current self and the 16-year-old me for joining the show today. My pleasure. How 30 years, it seems like 130 years ago. oh my God. I hope I, hope I remember.
00:46:28
Speaker
Right. Yeah, me too. Well, ah let's start with a few questions about your own connection or lack thereof to MTV Unplugged as just a music fan before you eventually played the show.
00:46:40
Speaker
Back in 1990, when Unplugged first kicked off, you were playing in Ozzy Osbourne's band. And I was curious if during that first season or two of the show, like 1991, when the show was really anchored around rock and metal acts like Aerosmith and Poison and Rat and Great White, was Unplugged on your radar at all during that period?
00:46:59
Speaker
You know, it really wasn't for me, to be honest, because um so we were on the No More Tears touring cycle, which was just just a beast of a tour. It was amazing. and And we were all over the world and just a day to day grind of just travel. And so, yeah. And so.
00:47:16
Speaker
Yeah, so i MTV Unplugged wasn't really on my radar. But then when it did get on my radar, um especially when like our era started playing on it, all the bands from Seattle and stuff, i just i think it's really weird because a lot of a lot of bands aren't capable of pulling something that off. It's not for everybody. Everybody thinks, oh, it's playing the same, but you're on acoustics.
00:47:37
Speaker
There's a certain like art to it. And I think you have to have a certain like organic kind of soul to do it in a way, right? Because it's um like live without a net. You got, you just got some acoustic guitars and some microphones and, and your talent, hopefully it's like, right.
00:47:52
Speaker
Me and Jerry, I was like equated to like a standup comedian or something. You don't have much. You have your, your wit and a microphone and or swim, you know? Right. Not the volume and the effects pedals to hide behind. Oh, yeah. There's fireworks and video screens and all this stuff, right? so But but it's it kind of suits our band because we've we've done the acoustic you know albums before.
00:48:14
Speaker
Sap was before I was in the band, but then we did Jar of Flies. Mm-hmm. So we recorded and mixed and wrote Jar Flies in like 10 days or something. Right. Wow. And that was like the first time we ever had a number one record yeah on the Billboard charts. So we kind of were used to playing an acoustic.
00:48:30
Speaker
um Then when Unplugged came up, it made sense for us to do it because of we had done those and and kind of like boosted our confidence a little bit. It's like, hey, hey we this this is pretty cool. Right, right. its ah It just feels natural for us to kind of do that. And even on the last tour um for our Rainier Fogg record, so we, you know, massive world tour. So we got invited to play in the Montrose Jazz Festival. So we decided, kind of spur of the moment, like, hey, we're...
00:48:55
Speaker
Let's see, you know, beautiful setting right on like Geneva or whatever it is, right? They're just gorgeous. And so we felt it was like a great opportunity for us to do that again. So we had played that unplugged show in and Geneva. So it's still part of our DNA. um Our manager, is Susan Silver, she's always trying to talk us into doing like like a cool like theater tour or something and do an on acoustic run. Yeah. And then there's there's talks of like, so you go into a town, you play a small place, like a theater on a Friday night, acoustic, and then you go do the normal arena or whatever. Like the next day with the real, you know, the real, all the, you know, fireworks.
00:49:27
Speaker
Right. The whole shebang. The whole thing. Right. Yeah. So it's, it's part of us, you know, pulling unplugged is real natural for us. You know, in fact, dude, I pulled up, I was in the warehouse getting this rig together for that other gig we're talking about. Oh, sure. Sure.
00:49:41
Speaker
ah Crawled up on the top of the warehouse. i've grabbed the unplugged. Oh my God. Wow. There it is. yeah so Beautiful artwork and everything. it it it should It should be here with us while I did this interview about, you know, playing bass.
00:49:56
Speaker
Oh man. It's amazing. Oh, I love seeing that. People always ask me about the bass tone on that record. It's funny because like, that's like a, so I bought a clone of that bass at a swap meet for 130 bucks, like two years ago. I was just walking down and was oh man, that's exactly the same bass. Almost the same serial numbers too. It was really close. Oh, wow. Wow.
00:50:14
Speaker
So wants to know my secret. It's like, okay, $150 bass and like a $40 chorus pedal. And that was it. I had like 200 bucks into my bass tone that night. yeah Are you serious? that That is wild. It is so true. I mean, a lot of it has to do with, you know, just the way those songs were written and played, but the actual tone of your bass, like the sustain that you got and everything that, that was one of my questions was if you did have any pedal or anything on there, because Having listened to almost every single Unplugged episode out there, you absolutely have just the top tier bass tone. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's it's it's kind of like you have to play different. You have to play delicate.
00:50:51
Speaker
Like ah even on the first song, so we walked out playing Nutshell. Yeah, Nutshell. And at one of the first verses I hit like an ah octave note and i could I could hear it just start getting away from me, you know, and I had to reach out to another's volume now on the bass. I turned it down a little bit. Yeah, yeah. how You know, it's those little things that are,
00:51:10
Speaker
make an unplugged kind of seem cool because, you know, I like all the mess ups and the yeah about that kind of thing. And like we didn't do any overdubs or anything. We we I'm probably jumping ahead, but we mixed at at Electric Ladyland Studios with Toby Wright.
00:51:26
Speaker
Yeah, we got in there. I don't know if we were just being lazy. but we Or just like it was a punk rock thing. We're like, no, no, just let it go. Just let it go. Let's just mix it nice. Yeah, yeah. The the thing I remember about that mix is so we're at Electric Ladyland Studios and the band COC was in there and James Hetfield was singing on their record, right? So Hetfield was around during that time because he'd go out the show too, right? Yeah.
00:51:49
Speaker
So um I had this big bag of Thai food that showed up and um I'm in the um there's a control room and then next to it, there's a little lounge area. So i'm like, OK, cool. The Thai food's here. And I just opened up the bag and I was going to get my Thai food. And then Toby Wright called me in to do to listen to to something. Right. So I said, OK, cool. So I went through the door, listen to it. I said, OK, yeah, that's cool. It sounds great. And then I went back into the um the lounge, literally Almost that quick.
00:52:15
Speaker
i I opened up my my Thai food and the biggest fucking New York rat jumped out of the bag. No way. already had chewed through the top of the bag and was started eating my Thai food. So that's what I remember about the the mix is it that there was a rat in my Thai food.
00:52:33
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. And those New York rats, they have ah they have taste, right? So they're like, they don't just eat anything. Oh, no. This one's like mean. Yeah. this is like This is like a pit bull of a rat. That is hilarious.
00:52:48
Speaker
that is hilarious I love that you kind of brought up Jar of Flies. So during 93, right when you joined the band, along with recording a pair of songs for the last Action Heroes soundtrack, Jar of Flies was actually kind of your first major recording session with them.
00:53:03
Speaker
Tell us about the band's creative discussion around that project being so like acoustic forward and and how y'all landed on going in that acoustic direction for Jar of Flies. Well, I think, I'm not sure the timeline. So we did um we did a Europe tour on the Dirt Cycle. and That's how I joined the band.
00:53:20
Speaker
ah So they they called me up and I met them in London. We did a few rehearsals. I think it was like, including the Jules Holland TV show we did. i think it was 27 gigs in 32 or 34 days in 16 countries. So that was my like entry.
00:53:35
Speaker
But I've known the guys more. they They started the Dirt Cycle with opening up for Ozzy. So that's how I met them on tour, right? Oh, okay. And then, um so yeah, so then I did that and then we went back to Seattle.
00:53:46
Speaker
I think we did JarFly's in between. We had done some States things, I think. And then um between that that kind of time period into Lollapalooza, 93, we had a a really short amount of time. So um they booked us into London Bridge Studios up in Seattle.
00:54:01
Speaker
Still the best sounding drum room in Seattle, I think. It's just got this really nice, like big brick wall in there. And for for some reason, it's just certain places just have that that magical vibe and Look at all the records that came out of London Bridge Studios that were just you know fantastic sounders. you know They sounded really good.
00:54:17
Speaker
And um so we went in there. We didn't have much. Jerry had this song called Don't Follow. He was in Ireland. And we all went out. And Jerry's all, no, going to stay in tonight. And I think he was missing his girl at the time. and He wrote that song and that was kind of the only one we had.
00:54:32
Speaker
You know, it just came together so fast. We just and there's there's something cool about a band that just goes in and we don't know what we got. And so like yeah um I contributed with Rotten Apple and I Stay Away and then then No Excuses came along and Jerry wrote that one. we were just off and running, you know, and then next thing you know, came out at number one on the Billboard track. It's the first like EP in history to ever do that.
00:54:56
Speaker
We were laughing, man. We were like, Holy shit, maybe we should have spent more than 10 days on that one anyway. Right, exactly. We should do 10 days every time. Yeah, we we probably would have messed it up, though, if we had to overthink it, you know. and Absolutely.
00:55:09
Speaker
um Just Lane was just so amazing. to watch We had done Last Action Hero in there somewhere, and and that was cool, and that was kind of rushed. But the Jar Flies was when I really – and Lane was just always mesmerizing to me, even when they were opening up this on Ozzy. I just thought he was – he just had the pipes. He just had the thing, right? Yeah, yeah.
00:55:28
Speaker
To actually see him record in recording session was, I never seen anybody kind of record like him. He would do harmonies first and they'd be all whacked out harmonies. And I'd be like, is that in key? And he's like, no, just listen, just listen. Hold on, give me a minute. And he'd do all these crazy harmonies. And then he'd do the lead vocal in through it and it would just tie everything together. So I kind of thought of it backwards a little bit, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:55:53
Speaker
Just like amazing stuff would just come out of that man's mouth. It was just um yes such a joy to sit there and watch Lane Staley sing in the studio. just really, that's one of the big takeaways I have from the Jar Flies record, right? Oh, I love hearing you talk about his voice. I know, ah you know, especially being a teenager in the 90s, you know, the big four Seattle bands that everybody wanted to to fight about all the time. It was kind of like each singer had their own little box of crayons they would color with. And the blues notes, know,
00:56:22
Speaker
And Lane's voice was just, oh, and that's just us hearing the finished product. I can't imagine watching him work it out in the studio. That's. Oh, yeah. I would love to hear ah later on. of course, never happened. But ah like a Lane solo record. He was he was into like some like he had avant garde taste, too. You know, so he liked all the metal stuff. And he he like ah was starstruck when he met King king Diamond, for instance. Right.
00:56:45
Speaker
um um But then he'd go jam with Lollapalooza. He'd go up and jam with that industrial band Front 242. Oh, sure, And we'd just sit down stage and they'd lay me with this crazy industrial band, right, from Europe. And like, oh, wow, he's he's really connecting with these guys, you know. So he had great taste and he did like a pig face record and everything.
00:57:03
Speaker
and did some stuff with Tom Morello and then Matt Cesar, of course. And so he, he was just a natural, I would have loved to see him do a solo record at one point in his life. It would just would have been something really special. I think, you know, he had that, and and you know? Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and such a, uh,
00:57:19
Speaker
defining element of y'all's unplugged as well as to see even when he didn't seem to be in the best physical or or mental shape the sense memory of his voice seemed unaffected like he was still just like tapping into something so primal uh that you can just hear in all the records i just yeah his voice is otherworldly You know, I've been in bands with a lot of singers, right? And like Ozzy has his his way he warms up before a show, right? It involves like getting your cardio up and, you know, throat spraising this and say Ann Wilson.
00:57:48
Speaker
And she has her own way to do it. And her and Nancy Wilson would just sing and sing and sing before their performance, where they're putting makeup on. They'd be singing like Emily Lujaner's hominis and stuff. It really needs stuff to hear through the wall, you Yeah. Yeah. What's up, Lynn? They'd even sing along the records and make harmonies up that weren't on the records. And it was just, you know, so that's their process. And like William Duvall, our singer now, he has very regimented... I learned a lot from William about work ethic and really like preparing for actual performance of it.
00:58:19
Speaker
But Lynn... he He would just fucking smoke cigarettes and walk up there. like just i was like Wow, he makes it look so easy. It was just right right open his mouth and it was just be this just yeah and beautiful. i mean And on that first tour I did in Europe, I mean, we we had like three, four five in a row plus travel.
00:58:38
Speaker
And he just there I can only count maybe a couple of times. He sounded a little rough. Took him a minute. But yeah, yeah. Never once did I think like that voice wasn't there. It was just awesome. It's it's pretty much my favorite rock voice. for on on that like I didn't play on Dirt, but man, that is one of my Desert Island albums. That was just so yeah like honest, and the the aggression of it. It was the real deal, man. when When Alice was... You could just hear it, you know? Yeah, yeah. That translates to Jar Flies, too, and unplugged settings, too. It's like the the real bands will come through. there Because there's some bad unplugs, too. I don't want to mention it. Sure, sure, yeah. That were really like, ooh, you know? Yeah.
00:59:21
Speaker
Too, like, ah overthought or overproduced or underformed and just not cool, you know? Right, right. Yeah, like you said earlier, i think there were some bands who really did think, oh, yeah, all we have to do is just take our normal template, our normal grid, and just swap it to acoustic instruments.
00:59:38
Speaker
And those are, at best, those are just uninteresting. But at worst, like you're saying, some of them, they don't even have the chops to keep up with it. How many actual unplugged shows were there? What was it? What was it?
00:59:49
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's really funny, depending on if you also count some of like the international versions and stuff like that. They they did season over season from 90 to 97. Then there were just a couple like 99. And then since then, every year there's like one or two, but like sometimes they're just another country. So I've never actually tried to count everything.
01:00:11
Speaker
But during kind of that first big chunk, there was easily between like 60 and 70, would think. I know Pearl Jam did one. Did Soundgarden ever get to do one? They didn't. and Yeah. Soundgarden is the only one of the big four that that didn't do one. Yeah. Pearl Jam did 92, Nirvana 93, and then you guys 96. Yeah.
01:00:27
Speaker
Because Chris, I saw, I caught, we were down in um Santiago, Chile playing some big festival. I think it was like Faith No More and us. And Chris was there doing his acoustic thing with Alan from the left. Nirvana's first record.
01:00:40
Speaker
Oh my God. It's like Chris was suited for that acoustic thing. He could have just, they would have they would have killed on that Unplugged record. I think they're one of those bands that would have pulled it off. Yeah. I remember hearing him do a solo acoustic version of ah Michael Jackson's Billie Jean. And you're just like like, where did this come from? And he absolutely- Another one of those.
01:00:57
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, just think of, um and I'm going to go off the beaten track track here, but just imagine if Chris and Lane had not decided to be musicians and and songwriters and singers. and In this day and age, kids, like, it's hard to make ah to to get a band up and rolling in this kind of era. I mean, you can put it on YouTube or whatever and stuff, but for for people to actually make a living doing this, super, super hard for younger people trying to. Right. So I'm wondering how many, you know, Kurt Cobains and Lain Staley's and Chris Cornell's are out there that are going, oh, you know, I would go into music, but I can't make a living.
01:01:32
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. I'm going to start this company or I'm going to go work here or there, you know, or go right right. So I'm wondering how, um, like on a philosophical level, like we're, are we doing damage by not having a healthy music scene, you know?
01:01:45
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. Oh, it's so true. It's funny. Cause I remember, you know, even as soon as like there was a transition from like analog recording to digital recording, people would be like,
01:01:55
Speaker
oh, it's taken out a lot of the middlemen. So it's easier to go from your bedroom to actually getting an album out there. And you're like, part of that is true. But then the other side of that is it becomes so in inundated that sometimes it's hard to actually wade through all that to get to the really good stuff. but then um Like everybody with a laptop now thinks they're a producer and said, plug in suite on their thing.
01:02:16
Speaker
Like, oh shit, you know, Exactly. Yeah. Maybe not just hang out in your bedroom for a little bit. You know, if you, if you wrote a song this morning, it doesn't have to be on YouTube by this evening. We promise. There's some people that could pull it off. They're great. Right. Just naturals. And yeah, it's just that the machine as it's set up like it used to be in the nineties, you know, and we still have our same manager and also we have a wonderful team around us still. So we,
01:02:37
Speaker
We're lucky we get to go play these cool songs and people want to come see us jam. And we don't take it really lightly at all. We we take our relationship very serious with ah with the people we go play for. You know, we really want to do a good job for everybody still. and um That's amazing. You know, it's funny. I had a question in here that that kind of piggybacked off what you were just talking about, about um the singers that you've played with.
01:02:58
Speaker
Because over your career, you've played alongside more than one of these like uniquely linked singer guitarist combos. I think of like you being able to play with Ozzy and Zach. And then as you mentioned, Anne and Nancy as well. Can you describe what it was like actually performing with Lane and Jerry and what made their musical partnership, especially when they sang together, so unique and special? It's it's so funny because like you can't plan that stuff.
01:03:23
Speaker
it's just you know you you could You could try to mix and match and put people together. you know That's why these these kind of super groups don't work and all. Right. well But there's just something about those two guys' voices together and the writing styles and their differences too. see so that's very That's very important. you know Like ah they all like the same stuff, but that they listen to different stuff, too. And that is what I think that like Lane go off and listen to some weird shit. Jerry Goff, listen to his stuff. And then then they would just come back within the bandfold. And it it just kind of made a good gumbo, you know, and there's no.
01:03:55
Speaker
planning on bands and you can't even plan for success at all or any of that. You could hope, but at the end of the day, it's like, it's just, it's cooler. It's not cool. I think, you know, I try to keep it really simple like that, no matter who I'm playing with, it's just like, I'm kind of going, going with it.
01:04:11
Speaker
Those two are very... And and Sean Kinney is very underrated. He doesn't get his price. He plays drums different than most people. He's he's got a lot of like cool Stuart Copeland kind of beats, a lot splash cymbal stuff. His accents are um in weird places. And the groove, it just it it was just a cool... it's just ah you You can't make the perfect mixed drink. And for some reason...
01:04:34
Speaker
especially during that time we're touring and we're really getting used to playing with each other, like on and on that grind of something like that, you know, Dirt Tour, Jarflies and Lollapalooza. I thought we were playing great. That was just a fantastic summer for all of us, you know, Tool, Rage Against Machine, Primus, Dinosaur Jr., Fishbone, best band of the bill, I think. Yeah.
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. just feeling just being young and being on ah so a free kind of tour like that. It was just a big summer camp of cool people and highly intelligent people, too. That is one of the summers I'll always remember is that Lollapalooza tour. It was just such a um and and and I talked to like guys in rage or guys to in tool guys or or or Lester. We ran it we played a festival in Las Vegas last year with with with those guys. And it only takes a couple minutes where we start talking about that summer.
01:05:24
Speaker
That's awesome. It made an impact. It made an imprint on all of us. It was just really cool. And there was just something, just something. kind of I wish I knew what it was, you know? i wish I knew what it was and I could put it in a bottle and give it to everybody for free, you know? And everybody liked the songs together. and But I don't even know.
01:05:43
Speaker
it's not for lack of thinking about it, too. I'll overthink it, like, you know? Oh, sure. Yeah. But sometimes you got to have faith and coming off a dirt record, you know, you wouldn't expect to throw out another acoustic record for as your next move, for instance. Right.
01:05:57
Speaker
So but we're like, no, no, we did. set up And, you know, they did. So I wasn't in the band. um So, OK, let's let's go for it. The songs and threw them out there, because if there were shitty songs, it would have been released as well. Right. So thank God.
01:06:11
Speaker
Nutshell, i I was saying it wasn't a single, but that's the one. i so We still play that. and I get a little teary-eyed just thinking about laying in. It's such an honest song. I would say that that's the heaviest Alice in Chains song is Nutshell. People cry in the audience and stuff still to that. or um it It means a lot to us that it means a lot to them, you know hope that makes sense. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Reflections on Music and Camaraderie
01:06:34
Speaker
It's a, I tell you, it's really, i don't know, like with you guys starting off with that song going into brother, especially after it being like your first gig, like, you know, in like two years or so, it makes sense a lot that that song still means a lot to you as you're playing those first two songs and you're hearing it sound so good and so strong. Do you remember kind of what was going through your head, you know, as, as nutshell and brother are kind of playing?
01:06:59
Speaker
It was kind of a mad rush. New York City, so all the label people were there and they're filtering backstage to say hi to you before this the set. And Jerry had um eaten some street food in New York City and he got, he was thrown up. He was deathly sick.
01:07:14
Speaker
And me and Sean were like, wow, do we call it? You know, do we not do this? You know, it it got to, so there's a lot of anxiety about that. Hmm. And then next thing you know, they're pushing us up the stairs to go play this thing. And so it just kind of, we it was, ah and then once we got out there, we were fine.
01:07:31
Speaker
You know, got to go with Jerry, you okay, man? I think so. And we had a trash can next to him so he could peek into it if he had to. Right, yeah. So it was kind of like, I was just really concerned for Jerry at that point, you know? Yeah, yeah. And another thing that's underrated on that um Unplugged album is Scotty Olson. He's the other guitar player that was sitting to my right.
01:07:51
Speaker
And Scotty is one of our best friends in the world. And that he was actually, when I did my first tour with Anna Nancy Wilson, he was a guitar player in Heart, right? So in 2002, I think it was.
01:08:01
Speaker
So he he was part of that whole Seattle scene. And and so Scotty was there. he He was a real calming influence. He's a real, he's that kind of guy, you know, very calming influence. So when I got a little too skitzy or overthinking, I defer to Scotty and just me and him would kind of buddy up there and up there on the stage. but Yeah, yeah. It was cool. All our friends were there. i think Metallica guys were there and Rage guys were there. I i think Tom was there, Tom Morello at least.
01:08:29
Speaker
Oh, wow. Okay. All the New York people were there, you know, and um it was cool. And then we we get done playing and and then like, I just remember me and Jerry going out with Lars Ulrich until the sun came up in New York. So we had one of those...
01:08:43
Speaker
ah magical New York City nights, you know, that New York City is great for know manifesting for you. You know, we just so we went out after after that and just hung out.
01:08:53
Speaker
You know, we're we're all obviously very close with those guys. Yeah. yeah We love those guys. And just just ah to pull it off afterwards. We're like, oh, OK, that one. you know Right. But then ah then you're into the mix after that.
01:09:07
Speaker
Oh, you're celebratory on the night of, but the next morning you're waking up and you're electric lady studios chasing rats off your fucking time. Right. And being like, did it actually sound as good as we remembered? Yeah, I should grab the rat put his, put them up on the speaker and see what he thought.
01:09:23
Speaker
That's amazing. Um, You know, with the unplugged taping penciled in to be kind of like I said, y'all's first live performance in a little over two years, if we're counting the ah Norwood Fisher benefit you guys did in January 94. So that's a great example of why we shouldn't do this, right? So we went, how was it be telling us, no, you you shouldn't play acoustic this night. Everybody else was going electric and we had come off Lollapalooza. So we're all friends and Yeah. Norwood needed some help. And we're like, of course, let's do it. So we decided to keep that theme going into that.
01:09:52
Speaker
We went out there and Jerry will tell you, all the guys will tell you, they were throwing shit at us. They were throwing throw bottles at us and they didn't want it. They wanted Alice in Chains. They wanted to hear us playing, you know, them bones and stuff were as loud as we could. But we went out there and we did it anyways. We were like, ah, screw it. We were here for Norway. We did our thing. Yeah, yeah. we had our heads up and our shoulders backwards we walked out of the hollywood playroom that night yeah so it's pretty ballsy to do that stuff i mean live without a net acoustic guitars and in a live setting too especially yeah i remember during the day of that show on the album cover so they now they want to throw in a photo shoot so go out walk around the place and do a photo shoot oh man okay so so you're doing just new york stuff and it just comes real fast and then poof it's over and then now we're sitting in a bar with laura zolrick at three in the morning going oh that was a that was crazy that was that was nutty and Right.
01:10:44
Speaker
did like Did Metallica do one? I think they did, right? They didn't do a specific MTV Unplugged, but I do remember around that era, they did an acoustic, I think it was from one of their rehearsal spaces, and and they had like audience in the round, so it was very Unplugged-esque, but it wasn't specifically Unplugged. I remember the Unplugged crew were fantastic. They had it so nice, and ah the set designer did a great vibey job for us. and Yeah. and um I forget the name. Was his name Alex, maybe? Yeah, Alex Coletti.
01:11:14
Speaker
Alex Coletti, yeah, he was super helpful and they just kind of let us be be ourselves and stuff. But um it was it's hard to get the four guys in the same spot at the same time on the planet Earth, right? so Right, yeah. We're all together. they're Okay, photo shoot.
01:11:29
Speaker
Okay, here's another photographer. where This photo shoot, we're going to grab some pictures while you guys are together. And while I'm here here, here's some paperwork we got to go over with you. Oh, right. It was just a big rush. We always say this, so time we're on stage, even when we're doing tours, it's like, that's kind of like our relaxing time in a way, because phone isn't ringing. yeah We're not dealing with some crew drama or this or that or the other. We could just play music. Oh, that makes sense. You can actually just focus on one thing.
01:11:55
Speaker
Yeah. And have a good time with all our friends and the audience. that That makes so much sense. So, you know, you kind of alluded to it a little bit with the idea of having good experiences with acoustic music, with things like Jarfly's, maybe not as good of experience with acoustic music for like the Norwood Fisher benefit gig, but going into the rehearsals for Unplugged, what was the overall vibe? Were things clicking or or did it take a minute to get back in the groove with the guys?
01:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think we we think about it that much like that. we i I always say myself, I just like, I just plug in and and hope for the best, dude. that's Yeah, yeah, there you go I just hope for the best and um you just have to prepare and then kind of let it go. You can't get too anxious and scared out there and you can't freeze up. Yeah, yeah. Put the time in and then let it go.
01:12:41
Speaker
I just know in my heart, Jerry's going to be Jerry, Lane's going to be Lane, Sean's going to be Sean, and I'm going to be Mike. And Scotty was with us and he's one of our best friends. So we added a guitar player that night. And one of the few times that we we did that was with Scotty and he was family because of that, you know. and Seattle at that time was just a huge, um I got adopted into it, you know, same with like, you know, Eddie's from San Diego and Dave Grohl's from Virginia and I'm from l LA. and And so we kind of like, we all went up there and then right where we made our lives, you know, it's, um, Transplants that become family. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really like um it was special to me to be the first time I went to Seattle. Jerry picked me up at the airport and we ended up in Ann Wilson's house, all of us sitting around her kitchen island playing acoustic guitars and singing.
01:13:29
Speaker
You know, I think that's why i have the Alvarez basses, because Nancy handed me an Alvarez bass that night. Oh, okay. I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. So it was right around that same time. So then I and went, there was one in the music store, and I grabbed it, and that's the one that, you know, that's here, you know, it's... um Yeah, I wouldn't have bought that particular model base if it wasn't for, I wasn't jamming with Anna Nancy and Jerry and everybody at Ann's house. just Right. That was what was so cool about Seattle back then anyways. And it's probably still happening now just with other people. But yeah, no, Anna Nancy were royalty for one, you know. Sure. We had a great career, but all the rest of us were just kind of, you know, it hasn't really broke super big yet. It was breaking. Yeah, yeah.
01:14:10
Speaker
So nobody had any like real money and we're just like we had nothing better to do but sit around at each other's house and play music because Seattle gets kind of dreary and rainy a lot. And so, yeah, there's so you find yourself just like at a place drinking beer.
01:14:24
Speaker
You got one Soundgarden dude and and one Pearl Jam guy and then and then you're just. playing Sabbath songs or whatever. And then, you know, so it was refreshing for me coming from the l LA scene and being in the massive success of the Ozzy Osbourne No More Tears cycle and doing those kind of shows. Then to to kind of just get dropped into the Seattle thing where where it was really like kind of more communal, kind reminded me of what my ideal would be of like the Laurel Canyon scene in LA. Oh, yeah. Francisco scene, right? There's these certain like cultural things. and And at the end of the day, it's just all energy of these personalities and talent getting together in these spots.
01:15:02
Speaker
Yeah. I knew pretty quickly like Seattle at that time was just such a special, special place, you know? Yeah. then Then when the bands start going out, then you don't see your friends anymore.
01:15:13
Speaker
Now we're in Seattle. We're Soundgarden. Oh, Soundgarden's, you know, South America. Where's Pearl Jam guys? Oh, they're in Japan tonight or whatever. that said one But there was a time where it was just really, really um just special for me just to see, you know, and to realize as an outsider coming into it, it's like, wow, this is a really special group of people here.
01:15:32
Speaker
That's such a ah good point. I love hearing you talk about the friendship and the familial bonds between all the bands, because one of the practices that was pretty standard for Unplugged at the time was to have special guests join. And I was curious if y'all's decision to not have any special guests for a song or two and to not really do any covers, at least like full cover songs. There were a couple snippets here and there. But was that like an intentional creative choice to not bring any special guests or anything out to the Unplugged show?
01:16:00
Speaker
I don't think we thought about it too much. I mean, like when we're on, where we go out even now to this day and age, like we'll go play a festival and like James Hetfield come up want to play wood. Okay, cool. Come on up.
01:16:10
Speaker
Or we kind of have open door policy with that stuff, you know, and as long as they're cool people and we're we're pretty open to jamming with it, it makes it different too. I mean, how many times can we play man on the box? Right. So it's nice when somebody comes out and likes, we were playing out in LA and Pomona at this amphitheater. Pomona?
01:16:27
Speaker
San Bernardino or something, right? A radio festival show. And Chester Bennington was there. And I had known him from doing OzFest 2001. Oh, okay. Yeah. Then Linkin Park was on the main stage with, like i was playing with Zach Wild and his band. And it was Black Sabbath, Headlining, Marilyn Manson, like Slipknot, like heavy OzFest bands, right? so Chester was just backstage at that. And I asked him, hey, you want to come up and sing Man in the Box? He's like, hold on a second. He went to the car and really worked hard on Man in the Box. And the other guys didn't really know him as well as I did. And they said, hey, you sure this guy's capable? I said, dude, trust me. Right. And sing his ass off. And Chester Bennington walked out there and just sang Man in the Box like so great. And he took it very seriously, you know. Yeah.
01:17:10
Speaker
You know, those kind of moments are are special, you know, especially now that a lot of lot of our friends are past, you know. Sure, sure. It sucks. But the older we get, you know, that's of like the reality, you know, people, people who love this business just kind of go to go to the next thing. Yeah.
01:17:26
Speaker
Yeah, it is always why it's nice to have these ah sort of documents and artifacts of those snapshots and moments in time to be able to revisit. And the unplugged record is certainly that. Right.
01:17:37
Speaker
the The biggest things in our career I've noticed is stuff that is is unplanned, you know, comes out. and I mean, not even with our band, but with like just great stuff comes out of just, I don't even know how, you know.
01:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And but then on the flip side, you got somebody like some of these big superstar pop acts. They have 20 writers on their songs and it's really put together. They go have great success and they play stadiums and it's they're making it's a money machine and and it's great. but It's just like that's that's not us. We're just like four dudes. Like said, plug into our apps.
01:18:07
Speaker
Hope for the best, you know. And kind of we've we've we've learned over the years, like that's good enough. We're okay. We're a pretty good band. We're a pretty good rock band. Oh, so man Understatement of the year that Alice in Chains is a pretty good rock band.
01:18:22
Speaker
Relationships are good, too. So I was just saw Jerry for his birthday on Sunday, you know, so I was hang hanging out. And people don't realize in these rock bands, so like the the things that you go through. but I joined in 93. So January of 93, I joined that band. And The stuff we've been through, it's just amazing that yeah we are in 2025. And it's just like Jerry and Sean are like, they they they're the only ones that can understand kind of the time we spent and going through all this shit together. Great.
01:18:52
Speaker
With the highest of the highest, lowest of the lows. Sean and Jerry are two the people that I i went through it with. And, you know, That's so wonderful to hear. Cause I think when you go back and like, you know, most people have probably listened to the album more than they've watched the episode, just because it's sometimes harder to get the visuals. But I wanted to ask you to that point about the connection that you have with the guys, some of those nonverbal band interactions that were taking place on stage during the unplugged performance. Like ah there's this quick moment where Jerry gives you this great wink during down in a hole, or you like high five Scott after over now. well I'll have to look back on that. Yeah, it's great stuff. Or even like Jerry cracks this huge smile during Rooster whenever you play that little wah-wah lick in the verse you play on the bass and he gives you this like great smile. Was that kind of stuff like pretty par for the course for you guys or or was there something extra going on?
01:19:44
Speaker
so funny because we were pigeonholed as this really dark gloom and doom and we were just having a time of our lives we're like you know in our early 20s and we're in a rock band and we're that's back in the drinking days and stuff we're out out in rock musicians and and uh all that comes with it you know yeah yeah it was a blast i wouldn't take it back for for anything know and Yeah, there's like that thing about it's like people love putting the word moody or gloomy when when they're like, you know, writing about Alice in Chains. But like when you watch the unplugged performance, there are so many smiles and just nonverbal things exchanged between you guys that I'm just like, man, there is so much joy and camaraderie between these guys. It really, really comes through, like not just in the music, but in the visuals as well.
01:20:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and then unspoken things, it's like, ah who was it? Someone like Pete Townsend or some somebody it was like, they were talking about how they can have full arguments on stage without saying a word, just like back and forth. They know what the other guys stick in and then you're yelling, you're just making eye contact with them. And so right there's something about not just being a band, but like living on the tour bus, being in the snow in the middle of Europe with nothing to eat and the It's freezing cold and you're in the snow, you know, walking around. Me and Sean would walk around, look for street food at two zero in the morning just for something to eat because the restaurants are all closed and the patrol bus just pulled in. and Wow.
01:21:03
Speaker
Kind of just surviving together, you know. Ah, I love that. That kind of a military kind of bond in a way, you know. It's like you did some. sure. Certain group of people and those bonds, and you know, last like like high school. And, you know you know, you went through high school together and you're still friends with some of your high school buddies and. Yeah, shared experiences and trials and triumphs and and just amazing, you know.
01:21:26
Speaker
We're really lucky, dude, and and we're very humble about it, especially at our age now, you know. Yeah, yeah. look looking back boy yeah a lot it hurts and a lot of it is just so joyous and it's nice to fill up this thing we call a life with some great people and some great music that we created that's the thing you know i mean we don't know how to do anything else dude i don't know how to how to my dad was a washer dry repairman my mom was a beautician for years and you know i'm working class jerry's family's the same way sean's sean's dad was police officer william's dad was an army guy and and just we come from working families and if if we had to go do other things, and I don't, God, I don't have much faith in that. You wouldn't want me to go on your breaks, right? so
01:22:08
Speaker
That's hilarious. Yeah. Well, we, ah we trust you with our ah musical fulfillment because you guys are just excelling at that. um I did want to ask you about some of sort of the bigger fan favorite hits that you guys did during unplug. So I'm thinking of like wood rooster down in a hole, no excuses. They were just absolute showstoppers that night. Were you guys surprised at all that those songs translated so smoothly to the acoustic format without sort of losing that emotional rush of the electric
Organic Creativity and Band Dynamics
01:22:39
Speaker
versions? I don't think so. I think, um so what surprised me is a song like Sludge Factory. You know, you wouldn't think that was going to be cool.
01:22:46
Speaker
So that that was what the interesting, because you knew that people were going to sing along to Wood and Rooster Hand in the Box or whatever, all that hits, right? But to do like Sludge Factory, and and we kept messing it up too, you know? Yeah.
01:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think that one got the record for most redo's that night. I think there were like six takes of it or something. But hey, you got there. You got there. Oh, six takes, really? But you know, it's it's like thats that shows like kind of the balls of the band. It's like, ah, screw it. We're doing this. We'll get it.
01:23:15
Speaker
It's a song that you wouldn't think would be cool without the all the the heavy guitars and stuff. But the the interesting thing to me was how different that that sludge factor is than the one on on the dog record, right? Mm-hmm. That's interesting to me as something that's, and there's certain other bands with some of their songs, they do different, different versions of it that I thought were cool.
01:23:34
Speaker
And then y'all also did a brand new song that night. The killer is me. Was that written specifically to have something new for unplugged or was it already rattling around or things was ramping back up? Yeah. Jerry basically wrote that as I recall in soundcheck.
01:23:48
Speaker
He's like, Hey, i got this thing. So there's, there's another example of the balls at the time, you know, fuck it. Let's do it. Right. Yeah. And Jerry had the thing and we kind of learned it. And then he taught Lane the harmonies.
01:24:00
Speaker
And then, so me and Scotty Olson, he was playing a guitar and I was playing bass. We switched instruments on that one. So I gave Scotty my bass and that was like, that's the only time i ever did that. You know, and i had this counter guitar thing with some harmonics in it and he was like, that sounds good with that. So me and Scotty just switched and then Scotty came up with his own bass line for that. So he actually wrote the bass line. So it was all just organic and it just happened. and And,
01:24:24
Speaker
And that's the dream for me anyways. And for if you want to be a true musician and that's the kind of and scenario you want to like have guys around you that so creative and inspiring and you just it sounds good and you're so confident about it. You're like, fuck it, let's just write this song right now. We'll put it on the thing. And yeah, I had another verse had a whole other round. And when we were doing it on the the actual unplugged record, um we forgot about it. So we completely messed that song up.
01:24:52
Speaker
But we did it together. There was supposed to be longer. There was a whole other part. We forgot about it. It turned out great. I love that song. I think it's a cool vibe. Yeah. And it's so cool having having a debut there on that night to be able to see that. That's wonderful.
01:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. And Jerry trusted us to to execute so something whole. And he didn't know what it was going to be. And none of us did. It was like, hey, that sounded pretty good. Yeah. Stuck the landing for sure. Yeah.
01:25:16
Speaker
So, so of course we we've talked about the base. We've seen the base. You you've shown it sitting right there behind you. So beautiful. So, um, we can't talk about unplugged without mentioning your, your hand pinned Woody Guthrie esque artwork.
01:25:29
Speaker
I know a lot of people have heard the stories, but I was just curious if one more time you wouldn't mind to give us all the juicy details about how the whole friends don't let friends get friends, haircuts base art came to be here.
01:25:40
Speaker
Here's where that happened. So, so, uh, So my drummer was going out with a girl named Jen Riley, right? She is a model. really really We're still friends with her. She's great, right? So she had mentioned that line, friends don't let friends get friends haircut, because at the time, that was the style. Everybody wanted the Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cotter, right? So I thought it was great, so I just wrote it on the bass.
01:26:03
Speaker
I'll even prove it to you. so props on this on this base it says jr right there right oh there we okay yeah yeah and riley is her name that's my dress so right and i i wrote that that night you know oh was always curious what that was down there okay yeah i was just boarding the dressing room with a couple marking pens so it was so so you know something to do right So we go play the show and then Metallica comes out and they all have their short hair. They debuted their short hair that night. right And so it kind of morphed into like, oh shit. right right
01:26:39
Speaker
But the intent of me writing that didn't have anything to do with Metallica, to be honest. you know Ah, nice. Okay. Yeah. And then so we went out there and then after the show, the Metallica guys came backstage and they pointed at the bass and they they kind of were like, oh, yeah, that's that's really fucking funny, dude.
01:26:55
Speaker
And then even that night, we're like, oh, no, no, it wasn't that right. And then but then it but since it's morphed into an inside joke with all of us. Right. So yeah it kind of turned into the thing. Right. The actual.
01:27:08
Speaker
You know, the actual, it wasn't like I was taking the piss out of Metallica. And everybody thinks that, like, oh, you really fucked up Metallica that night. And I'm like, no, i I didn't. I really did. this is You know, I could have got any old joke on there, you know.
01:27:20
Speaker
Right, right. I was just bored in the dressing room before he went out, you know. Yeah, it was so funny. So it it really is funny to us. I mean, even with those guys, it's super fun. I mean, we ended up going out with Lars Ulrich until like the sun came up that night. And y'all even played snippets of two Metallica songs on stage that night. Oh, we love those.
01:27:38
Speaker
Our biggest shows we've ever played were opening for Metallica. Rock and Rio, for instance, second on the building and all the po just electric 200,000 people. Crazy shows, right? Yeah, yeah. Recently on PBS, I did the Gershwin Awards that they give to the best songwriting award in this country. Congress gives it to people. And Elton John and Bernie Taupin got it last year. So they asked me to play bass on it. So I did that. Metallica was there.
01:28:05
Speaker
And they did Funeral for a Friend, Love, Lies, Bleeding. It's on the PBS website if you want to check it out. Yeah, yeah. or Even just like running into those guys in Washington, D.C. You know, I went to the rehearsal the night before. and like It's just so nice to just sit and and talk with those guys and their survivors, too, man. They've been through a lot.
01:28:21
Speaker
I mean, crazy history, those guys. And at the the scale that those guys roll, too. I mean, basically the biggest heavy band in the world, you know what mean? Yeah, yeah. So we we kind of learn a lot from those guys, and we always have. They were already huge by, you know, by the time Alice's first record came out, Metallica was just massive, so you know. So um they've always been a a brother band to us, like our older brothers and yeah all that all that brings, you know. Right. Just have high, high respect and love back and forth between those two camps, you know. Yeah. Yeah, we're playing the last Black Sabbath show, right? So Metallica's showing up, Guns N' and Roses.
01:28:57
Speaker
Yeah. There, Pantera, we're playing. So we're going to run into them again really soon, again in July here ah for the last Black Sabbath show. So we're we're pumped. That's awesome. Anytime can hang out with those guys, it's just wonderful. you know so But that that Gershwin thing, i so I think I spent more time in their dressing room than I did in the open dressing room. I was just over there with my friends hanging out.
01:29:17
Speaker
I think that's what makes the story of the bass that much funnier is it's like, cause I remember they even had a little snippet talking about it in um Metallica's VH1 behind the music in the nineties. It was such this thing of like, Oh yeah, it was going against Metallica. It's like I've had casinos, like these big casinos try to buy that bass for like a hundred thousand.
01:29:36
Speaker
um Hey, we'll buy that for hundred and put it our lobby. And, ah but it's just like my souvenir of a really cool, magical New York city night, you know? So I'll never sell it. won't. I'll have it after I die. she you know what I mean? It's not going to stay in the family.
01:29:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The only place that would even remotely deserve that as a rock and roll hall of fame, but keep it in the family. That's good. So, um, yeah going back a little bit to, to thinking about like, uh, the rehearsals in the setup for the show, you mentioned a little bit talking about Scott playing with you guys that night and about how that was not something that, you know, y'all had ever really done very much, probably until William came along, it would be having two guitars in the band. When along the way did that idea of having a second guitarist for Unplugged, when did it come up?
01:30:20
Speaker
Probably during rehearsals in Seattle. We had we had our sound man at his name was Naff, and he had this big complex that had all the bands in there. So he had like Screamin' Trees, Screamin' Trees with Josh Holm in it even, you know? Wow.
01:30:31
Speaker
Long Garden, Alice in Chains, you know, Green Apple Quick Step. You have all that in this one complex. And Scotty was, he he's kind of like a, he's a record producer. he's he's He was Terry Dates' engineer. And so he's a record producer that worked for all the bands.
01:30:45
Speaker
Plus, he was one of our best friends and brothers and, or still is one of our best friends and brothers. And Jerry was thinking, I think we should bring in and one more guitar player. And then it was just Scotty. It's just, was that quick. It's like, oh, it's gotta be Scotty. And then, hey, Scott, grab a guitar. Okay.
01:31:00
Speaker
You know, and then, ah but That's how cricket worked, right? a whole lot of thought into it or audition process or anything. It was just, it had to be one of our brothers that was in the building at the time. He's also great with with acoustic instruments that they really start feeding back and stuff like that. So he was really good at curtailing all that stuff and putting out the fires. Ah, nice. okay i show up early making sure all the blah blah this and blah blah that was all nice and easy for us and yeah he was he was just great uh during that whole process and i mean even when we do demos and stuff scotty would usually be the one to record it he's uh amazing dude we love him greatly and then um after lane passed and and a nancy asked me to go they were saying hey we want to restart heart and i was really hurting about lane and heartbroken they said here come with us.
01:31:43
Speaker
yeah i'm I'm like their little brother. Come with us. We're going to surround you with love. We went on this tour. So Nancy and Cameron Crowe had their bus with their two twins. And then then Anne had her bus.
01:31:54
Speaker
So when when me and my wife, Sydney, got married, ah they asked Sydney to be the nanny of Anne's boy, right? So she's on the other bus and I'm on the band bus. When we got married, Dustin was our ring bearer. And it was just like, it's, it's family stuff, right? It's just, ah yeah. So they were saying, come with us. We're going to surround you with love. You're going to heal up with us, dude. and I said, okay, awesome. So often running with them, it was going to be a summer turned into like five or six years. And i still keep in touch with Anna and Nancy, like on the weekly, especially Nance, you know, yeah whenever she, her bass player, I need to fill in for her. I'll fly anywhere and just like grab a bass and go play with her whenever she needs, you know? And, Yeah, it's just like, that's that's what I miss about that time in Seattle. You know, there was a good, you know, now now it's weird. You go to Seattle, it's real techie. The downtown area is pretty beat up now, you know, after a pandemic.
01:32:45
Speaker
But our our producer, Nick Raskolini, we recorded Rainier Fogg at Heart Studio Bad Animals, which turned into something called Studio X. So we're downtown Seattle doing that record. And Nick was saying something to us. He said that he's all, man, I i walk around the city. he's from He's from Tennessee, but he lives in Nashville. he He says, I walk around the city and besides the the bronze statue of Chris Cornell in front of the Mopop Museum there by the space, you know there's not a whole lot of evidence that that scene ever even happened.
01:33:14
Speaker
you know All the clubs are gone. All the cool graffiti that everybody knows is gone. And um clubs like the Crocodile have moved to a new location, but it's not like the whole Crocodile. everything's kind of like gone. Yeah, yeah.
01:33:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. what what ah i've heard ah I've heard a couple people, like a couple artists from that scene mention that same thing. what What do you think it would take to bring something like that back? You kind of talked earlier about you know younger musicians having to choose other career paths and stuff. I hope it's out there somewhere, you know, like yeah when you get like an algae bloom in Athens, Georgia, or ah Minneapolis all of a sudden has a bloom of cool bands. And then like, you know, going back to like, we're talking about San Francisco had that explosion.
01:34:01
Speaker
think the grunge thing was more kind of like that. It wasn't just a little algae bloom. It was it was so ah like a a seismic shift in the music. Absolutely. But the thing about it, if the all those songs weren't cool, right it wouldn't happen, right? So Temple the Dog, great songs. Pearl Jam, great songs. Soundgarden, oh, Super Unknown is my snowboard record. I put get to the top of that. yeah I look down the mountain, and then I just hit play on Super Unknown.
01:34:27
Speaker
And then I'll snowboard, and then all the way down until the end of that album. It's just like, that's that's like a... I've been doing that for 20 years. Right. and love snowboarding the Soundgarden. Yeah. zero Dirt. it got Dirt is just an amazing record. and Yeah. Now I'm pulling for everybody up there still. I'm pulling for everybody everywhere. We need good yeah music. Where is it? like Let me hear it.
01:34:50
Speaker
Let me hear it. Yeah, yeah. Clubs are disappearing. So that, you know, it's like Seattle is so far removed from everything. You're up and way up and left. And like, so those bands didn't have anything to do but sit around and drink beer in each other's basements and write cool songs because there was nothing else to do up there besides go watch the Mariners lose again or whatever. stop right I'm hoping that this internet thing isn't supposed to replace that.
01:35:15
Speaker
yeah yeah it's so true that's what it feels like because it needs that human interaction mean and the guys couldn't have made the killer is me if we weren't just sitting there with microphones on at soundcheck and jerry had an idea and hey dudes what do you think of this hey oh you should sing that harmony lane and the next thing you know me and scotty were like hey let's trade instruments and then all of a sudden and then we have a thing that would that's a great example of like you need that personal interaction or else.
01:35:40
Speaker
Yeah.
Impact of Grunge and Live Performance
01:35:41
Speaker
I always say this. i I like, I want to be in a fucking band. I don't want to be in a fucking email thread. Right. Right. Yeah. want to be on an email thread. i want to be in a fucking band, sit together and play and argue and hug each other and throw bottles at each other whatever. Right. But you know, you're in the room and there's an energy going, a transference of like,
01:36:01
Speaker
personalities and talent and intention. And it's it's just like ah it all has to come together in a real way or else. And that was the secret of the Unplugged series, not just Alice in Chains Unplugged, but the whole concept of that was that was what was special about that Unplugged. Yeah.
01:36:17
Speaker
I hope they bring it back. A lot of bands try to do it. yeah They try to do stuff on their own, but it wasn't that cultural thing like... MTV. I miss MTV. God, what a cool place. Same.
01:36:28
Speaker
Especially, yeah, that's a good point about Unplugged is it's like so many bands, like when you read stories nowadays, they're like, oh yeah, we recorded this album. You know, we all have home studios and we're swapping files back and forth and all that sort of stuff. You're like, no, man. I hate it. hate all that stuff. You know, I like, I'm an only child. I love hanging out with my buddies. That's big thing to me. you know It's like i I need to be in a room and and being terrified with people or being happy with people or inspired by it. It's like a shared communal thing.
01:36:57
Speaker
And that's what was so so special about that Seattle scene was just that. It really cool. And we all had the same managers. Yeah. You know, it's just cool. You were talking about shared energy earlier, and that's ah something that doesn't translate over Wi-Fi is ah is shared energy. yeah I mean, it's a pleasure to talk to you and stuff, but I mean, if you're hearing a song, it would be hard. Horrible. Yeah, absolutely. I hear you.
01:37:19
Speaker
So finally, these days when fans or other musicians or podcasters are talking to you about albums that you played on that meant a lot to them, how often does this unplugged get brought up and what are folks expressing to you about it? Yeah. Unplugged and Jar of Flies both. People always come up to me. I made my baby to Jar Flies and I would make a joke like, oh, sorry about all those wrong notes. like I hope hope your kid's okay. Yeah.
01:37:45
Speaker
um I just say that to kind of cover up how touched I really am. You know, um it's what an honor, right? What an honor. Someone says like, like I can imagine, you know, our little band, but I mean, could you imagine like Paul McCartney's people saying that to Paul McCartney or Elton John? I mean, these these guys are like in their 20s writing Yesterday or Your Song.
01:38:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, these guys are writing love songs, timeless love songs that they will be playing 100 years from now. And people will still be getting that same feeling and response from these songs, you know? Right. And you can't plan for it. And it just happens. But what blessing and an honor, you know, that is some real stuff right there. And I see some dudes that are rockstarred out and they just they treat their fans like shit when the fans are just trying to tell them something like that. And it's like, I just want to slap them. like, you aren't even respecting what, like, what Why did you make that song then, you know, if it wasn't to make someone like have that kind of emotional response, you know?
01:38:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's even just like nutshell just keeps popping up in my mind. That was not a single. And that's one of the most songs that we we play and it gets the biggest response of the night. Just breaking it down to three chords and some poignant lyrics from the heart from Lane Staley. And then, I mean, just the performance of Lane on on those songs.
01:39:02
Speaker
I like the unplugged version too, because we came out one at a time, you know, kind of eased into it that night. Yeah. what Sean's idea. Sean Kinney's idea. Oh, okay. Great. well Once again, it's a shared, you know, Hey, I got this idea. We'll start with Jerry and then you walk out and then I'll walk in, you know, so. love it um And then the next level of that, just to to reaffirm your point is, is that audience interaction, right? So it's,
01:39:26
Speaker
It's so sacred ah the ground right there. I just see some guys just shit on that. Like, they don't have respect for that, what that communal experience really is supposed to. That's why we travel all this way to play for you to kind of get to that spot with us, you know? and ah That is a, that's a beautiful sentiment. It's so funny. I feel like you've given so many great stories about the unplugged performance, but also just talking to you has been such a joy and and also so philosophical. You've given me so many things to think about. It's just literally a lifelong dream. Again, thank you ah for this current version of me for talking to me, but also the the teenager that spent years listening to these records. It means the world that that you talk to me. What's he doing? Come by a show anytime, dude. I'll remember. Just come on come come by and eat our food. ah you know
01:40:13
Speaker
Next time you're in Chicago, dude, I will absolutely take you up on that. That would be a dream come true. Yeah. Yeah. just ah ah I'll put you in a wardrobe case and wheel you in that myself. And if I have to, I'm going to this.
01:40:24
Speaker
We're going to do this. That's perfect. I appreciate it. I would love to do it. I can squinch down really small. I promise. Well, Mike, again, i appreciate you so much for coming on the show and entertaining all of my questions about this gorgeous, dynamic, heartbreakingly beautiful performance. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you for keeping the flame alive on it. You know, appreciate you.
01:40:44
Speaker
See there? What'd I tell you? Mike is genuinely one of the nicest, coolest guys in the business. And as I'm sure you can tell by the sound of my far too giddy voice during the interview, that was an absolute dream chat for me.
01:40:56
Speaker
Okay, that'll do it for this week's Unplugged Revisited. Don't forget, I'm running the Eric Clapton Unplugged Deluxe Reissue CD and Vinyl Giveaway, so be sure to get your entries in for that.
01:41:06
Speaker
And if you want to connect with the show for any questions, corrections, or anything else, you can email me, unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com, or leave a voicemail by calling 234-REVISIT or reach out on social media.
01:41:19
Speaker
As always, please take a moment to follow the pod on your platform of choice so that it'll automatically pop into your feed when it goes live. I'll be back in two weeks with another fun episode and interview, which will also be very grunge-centric and also features a discussion about a very popular instrument in Unplugged's history.
01:41:37
Speaker
But it won't be with an artist who actually played Unplugged. Intrigued? Well then, meet me back here in two weeks. Until then, my friends, be kind to yourself and look out for each other.
01:41:48
Speaker
Unplugged Revisited is a son of a butch production. The show is written and hosted by me, Will Hodge. The show is edited by Amanda Hodge and myself. Podcast artwork is by Jordan Ullam, and you can find more of their incredible work at jordanulam.design.
01:42:03
Speaker
That's J-O-R-D-A-N-U-L-L-O-M.design. That is the beauty of Unplugged.