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UR006 – Lori Goldston (Nirvana) [1993]
92 Plays4 months ago
Lori Goldston joins the show to discuss playing cello with Nirvana on their legendary MTV Unplugged performance. She also discusses her time with the band before and after the Unplugged taping, as she toured with them on the North American leg of their In Utero tour from October ’93 to January ’94. Goldston can be seen and heard on Nirvana’s Unplugged in New York and Live and Loud album/DVD releases.
If you dig the show, want to share your own Unplugged memories, ask a question, request a show topic, or connect with the pod for any reason, there are a couple ways you can get in touch:
- You can email me at unpluggedrevisited@gmail.com,
- You can reach out on twitter at @unplugged_pod,
- You can leave a voicemail (that’ll maybe get played on the show) by dialing 234-REVISIT (234-738-4748)
Recommended![UR014: Mark Bryan (Hootie and the Blowfish) [1996 MTV Unplugged] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66ea0b235fcf51d2c9a0b7cd/43cbefc3-777c-4d93-9915-92abd82876d2.jpg)
Transcript
Introduction and Excitement about Nirvana's 1993 Unplugged
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Unplugged. Unplugged. Unplugged.
00:00:14
Speaker
greetings and salutations welcome back once again to Unplugged.
00:00:24
Speaker
i'm your host music journalist pop culture anthropologist and unplugged obsessive will hodge Friends, what a show I've got for you today. For many reasons, I thought it might take a while for me to dare venture into an episode on the pinnacle of Unplug's hallowed mythos. Of course, I'm talking about Nirvana's Magisterial 93 episode and subsequent Unplugged in New York album.
00:00:55
Speaker
Not only is Nirvana's unplugged a deeply personal musical moment for me individually, meaning I worry about the narrative ratio of cultural analysis to indulgent navel gazing, but also, in the last 31 years since it was first filmed and broadcast, there have been oceans of ink spilled about this mythical performance by smarter, more insightful journalists.
Interview Opportunity with Lori Goldston
00:01:16
Speaker
Not to mention, there's like a hundred different angles through which to discuss this specific period of the band, this exact point of the show's cultural cachet, the performance itself, the set list, the response to the album, you get the picture. My plan was to work up to it a bit, but alas, only six episodes in, here we are. My first, and most certainly not last,
00:01:35
Speaker
episode on Nirvana's Unplugged, which is coincidentally occurring, depending on when exactly you might be listening to this, between the 31st anniversary of its November 93 filming and December 93 broadcast, or it's to mark the 30th anniversary of the Unplugged in New York album release on November 1st, 1994. You know, take your pick.
00:01:55
Speaker
The fortuitous reasoning behind my swerve is that I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to interview Laurie Goldston, the classically trained cellist who not only elevated and enchanted the sonic underpinnings of the band's Unplugged setlist, but who also toured the In utero album with them from October of 93 into January of 94.
Giveaway Contest Announcement
00:02:13
Speaker
Along with Goldston's acoustic augmentation throughout Unplugged, you can also see and hear how she infused her cello playing into part of the band's electric fury via the live and loud concert DVD and album from their stunning New Year's Eve 93 show at Seattle's Pier 48.
00:02:37
Speaker
Also, at least according to some accounts within the vast grapevine lore surrounding the band, she may or may not have eventually become a full-fledged member of the expanded five-piece version of the band that Kurt Cobain may or may not have been envisioning before his untimely death in April 1994.
00:02:54
Speaker
Goldston doesn't give a ton of interviews, especially about her time playing with Nirvana, so I feel really lucky to have her on the show today. She's an incredibly accomplished musician and collaborator, and a genuinely fun person to talk to in general. But before we fully get into this episode's intersection and interview, let's take care of a few announcements. Pausing to let the wordplay settle in. Just another second. And there we go. Announcement number one. Friends, we've got ourselves our very first giveaway contest.
00:03:24
Speaker
This is Natalie Merchant and you're listening to Unplugged Revisited.
00:03:32
Speaker
Following up on my episode with Natalie Merchant from a couple weeks ago, the fine folks at Rhino Records sent me a couple copies of the brand new 10,000 Maniacs Unplugged Reissue that just came out in September. It's remastered, features the three cover songs they did with David Byrne as bonus tracks, and was finally, much to my answered prayer, amazement, pressed to vinyl. I'm giving away two copies, a CD version and a vinyl version. And all you have to do to enter is send me an email, unpluggedrevisited at gmail dot.com, telling me one thing you like about the 10,000 Maniacs Unplugged, your favorite song, a memory of watching it, whatever, anything.
Preview of Upcoming MTV Unplugged Shows
00:04:09
Speaker
Please make sure to put the word contest in the subject line, and in the body of the email let me know if you prefer the CD or vinyl version. I'll be picking two names, one for CD, one for vinyl, so if you want to enter both contests, please send two separate emails.
00:04:23
Speaker
As a bonus, if you want to increase your odds, you can also rate and review the podcast wherever you're streaming it, and then attach a screenshot of that in your email. That will double your chances by putting your name in twice. Announcement number two. I'm really excited to announce that this week, MTV is broadcasting a brand new, we'll say unplugged adjacent, show. MTV's gonna knock you out with a special performance from the one and only LL Cool J.
00:04:51
Speaker
MTV Unplugged presents LL Cool J from the Rock the Bells Festival Thursday at 10. Watch on MTV. The hour-long MTV Unplugged presents LL Cool J from the Rock the Bells Festival will be premiering on MTV December 5th at 10 p.m. Eastern. That's tomorrow night if you're listening to this show on the day it launches. And then I assume it'll be available to stream ad hoc on Paramount Plus after that.
00:05:13
Speaker
Now, to properly set expectations, from the clips I've seen, it's definitely not intended to be a spiritual sequel or anything like that to the 91 Yo-On plug show with LL, Tribe, DeLa, and MC Light. Shameless plug, but please be sure to check out my last episode with MC Light if you haven't already.
00:05:30
Speaker
The hour-long broadcast is of LL's electrifying closing set at the 2022 Rock the Bells Festival. He's got a DJ, a live band, some cool special guests, and a rich back catalog of bonafide hip-hop classics delivered by one of the best to ever do it. Much like last year's MTV Unplugged
Interview with Lori Goldston: Nirvana Collaboration
00:05:48
Speaker
presents a hip-hop 50th celebration of Jersey's finest, the show itself looks and sounds amazing. I have a feeling that the only beef it may potentially draw is for using the unplugged verbiage again.
00:05:59
Speaker
To be fair, the title is MTV Unplugged Presents. Not just, you know, MTV Unplugged Full Stop. So set your expectations accordingly. All that being said, I will 100% be tuning in. Not just because I love LL, but also because if these MTV Unplugged Presents shows do well enough, maybe we'll eventually get some more just full-on MTV Unplugged shows. Who knows? Announcement number three.
00:06:23
Speaker
Many of you have reached out with incredibly kind words and nice things to say about the show. And I can't tell you how much it means that people are not only listening to, but also digging the show. And I keep seeing new countries pop up on the listener map as well. Brazil, Norway, Iran, Paraguay, Denmark, the Philippines, and a genuinely surprising amount of New Zealanders. Hello to each and every one of you. I'm so thrilled you're all tuning in. I wanted to start sharing some of the nice comments and stories in a little listener mailbag type thing. with hopefully a more clever title to come. Okay, here we go. Our first email is from a listener named Brad about the Natalie Merchant episode a couple weeks ago. Hi Will, just wanted to reach out to say what a great episode. I've been a long time 10,000 maniacs and Natalie fan and hearing Natalie talk about the show and share those stories was fantastic. Great interview and thank you. Aw, I really appreciate the nice email Brad. Thanks so much for reaching out. I had an absolute blast talking to Natalie and I'm glad to hear other folks enjoyed it as well.
00:07:22
Speaker
Alright, we got a second email about the Natalie Merchant episode. This one came in from Steve Maughan. will you knocked it out of the park with great chronology and conversation if you would have asked me three years ago to pull natalie merchant out of a police lineup there would have been no chance Having checked out of listening to new popular artists after the early 1980s, career, family, different musical tastes, it wasn't until listening to a classic rock station on the way home from work on a nostalgic day in December 2021 that I became aware of Natalie's exceptional talent. Like the weather, an anthem for those of us in Western New York who rarely see the sun between Halloween and Easter was being played. After arriving home, I viewed some 10,000 maniacs videos from the late 80s and since then have become addicted to her work.
00:08:07
Speaker
Learning about Natalie's background, particularly her commitment to the welfare of children and the environment from shows such as yours, have made her personally endearing. Thanks again. Man, so many things I love about that story. Tumbling down a rabbit hole of 10,000 maniacs' music videos, I'm a huge fan of cold weather, especially months and months of it, and that always magical moment of being struck by a random radio recommendation. Classic. Love it. Thanks for the email, Steve.
00:08:32
Speaker
Okay, as always, if you'd like to get in touch, you can email me at unpluggedrevisited at gmail dot.com, reach out on social media, or call 234-REVISIT and leave a voicemail that I just might play on the show. Alrighty, that's more than enough announcements for now. Let's get into this week's show.
00:08:51
Speaker
If you listen to my last two episodes with Natalie Merchant and MC Lyte, you're familiar with the concept of the intersection, my contextualizing preamble that lays out where an artist was and where Unplugged was when the two converged.
Nirvana's Formation and Breakthrough
00:09:04
Speaker
For this week's interview with Lori Goldston, I'm going to tweak things just a little bit. Instead of laying the detailed track of Nirvana's full career arc, I'm going to hyperfocus on the window of time that Goldston was with them. early 93 to January 94, and then of course the long shadow of her indelible instrumental mark on the band's Unplugged in New York record that just celebrated its 30th anniversary last month. So let's get into this week's intersection. Like I said, I'm not going to go super in-depth on Nirvana's career arc in this episode, but here are at least a few of the most important broad-stroked mile markers.
00:09:38
Speaker
In the mid-1980s, the band that would soon become known as Nirvana begins forming in Aberdeen, Washington by friends Kurt Cobain and k Chris Novoselic. Both musicians initially played in other bands, but finally joined forces under a variety of different band names throughout 1986 and 87. In 1988, they recorded their initial batch of demos, played their very first show under the name Nirvana, and released their very first single, a cover of Shocking Blue's 1969 psych rocker, Love Buzz, as the debut entry in Sub Pop's brand new monthly subscription project, the Sub Pop Singles Club.
00:10:22
Speaker
In 1989, they released both their debut album, Bleach, famously reported to have only cost $606 to make and also the yeah UK-exclusive Blue EP to help promote their first European tour. In 1990, they recorded one of their most beloved non-album singles, Sliver, briefly toured with Sonic Youth, got signed to DGC Records, at the recommendation of Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon and, perhaps most importantly, resolved their revolving drummer situation when Melvin's leader Buzz Osborne serendipitously introduced them to Dave Grohl, who, according to Novoselic, famously passed his audition in the first two minutes. In 91, everything changes.
00:11:05
Speaker
Nirvana released their second album, Nevermind, and its lead single, Smells Like Teen Spirit, seismically disrupted the popular music landscape and absolutely revolutionized youth culture in a way that the band's also amazing genre-made contemporaries, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and many others, unquestionably shared in, but never fully equal.
00:11:28
Speaker
In 1992, Nevermind hit number one on the Billboard 200, overtaking Michael Jackson, which at the time was genuinely insane, went quadruple platinum in less than a year of its release on its way to ten times platinum, and genuinely became a global phenomenon, contributing to extreme exhaustion and burnout for the trio, whose non-stop touring and rocket to fame resulted in them declining to do a full-on US
Challenges of Fame and Sound Evolution
00:11:53
Speaker
tour that year.
00:11:53
Speaker
You know, we chose not to promote this record anymore, not to go on tour for the rest of the year. I mean, we don't need any more press, you know? And what press we've had has been pretty damaging. Which brings us to 1993, the year Goldstein joined up with Nirvana, and when Nirvana and Unplugged finally crossed paths. Take away their power and the strong get stronger, the loud get louder, and that's where you become acoustic.
00:12:25
Speaker
Nirvana began the year by recording their third album, in utero, with producer Steve Albini in less than two weeks that February. The album's abrasive sound caused friction with their record label who deemed the new collection of songs unmarketable and almost shelved the whole project. Instead, they tried to smooth out the sonic edges in post-production and even brought in producer Scott Litt, best known for his work with REM, to remix a few tracks being eyed as potential singles. With all invested parties somewhat assuaged, In utero was finally released on September 21st, 1993, with lead single Heart-Shaped Box sent to radio and MTV almost a month prior.
00:13:08
Speaker
But let's rewind back just a few months to spring of 93. After the In utero sessions were finished in late February, the band was taking a much-needed breather from public appearances. Between February and July, they ended up only playing one concert, a Treznevka women's group benefit show in Daly City, California, where they shared the bill with the breeders, disposable heroes of hypocrisy, and L7. But during this window, there was a lot happening with the band behind the scenes.
00:13:36
Speaker
Alongside all of the label headaches regarding In utero's quote-unquote commercial viability, the band, most notably Cobain, was giving a lot of thought to expanding their sound. And not just in the conventional, should we beef things up by adding a second guitar player kind of way. though
Goldston Joins Nirvana for Unplugged
00:13:52
Speaker
that was certainly in the conversational mix as well. More curious was their desire to bring on a cellist in some capacity beyond just the occasional one-off appearance here and there. Now, before officially bringing Goldstein into the mix, Nirvana had already exhibited a predilection for cello. They had one on Something in the Way off their groundbreaking Nevermind album.
00:14:18
Speaker
And even though it wouldn't be released until later in the year, In utero also featured cello on two of its songs, the album cut second single all apologies.
00:14:44
Speaker
Not to mention, at the time, Cello was having a pretty cool moment in Alt-Rock as well, which was a very welcome phenomenon to this unsurprisingly uncool middle school Cello player. In that 91-93 era of Alt-Rock, prominent Cello could be heard not just on album cuts, but on such popular radio hits as REM's Drive,
00:15:12
Speaker
Pearl Jam's Pumpkins Disarm Indigo Girls Galileo
00:15:46
Speaker
And tooting Unplug's own horn for a second, 10,000 Maniacs cover of Because of the Night.
00:15:59
Speaker
But Nirvana bringing Goldstein into the fold seemed to be for something bigger than just a few bits of instrumental coloring on a song or two. As you'll hear in my chat with Goldstein, the prospect of Nirvana doing an MTV Unplugged episode was already on the table when the band reached out to her in early 93.
00:16:15
Speaker
So that was definitely one of the things that they were working towards. However, countless unplugged episodes featured instrumentalists getting sent sheet music ahead of time and not rehearsing with the band or maybe even meeting them at all until the day before or day of the actual show. This was definitely something more.
00:16:32
Speaker
After the band reached out to her and she got the gig, Goldstein started practicing with Nirvana at their former Jukebox City turned rehearsal space in Seattle that summer. Journalist Gavin Edwards was present for one of these practices and did a killer write-up for Details magazine that came out later that fall after In utero was released.
00:16:50
Speaker
That night, the band was specifically rehearsing for an upcoming hush-hush appearance at the new music seminar in New York, where they were going to be trying out a second guitarist, their roadie Big John Duncan, and also doing an acoustic mini-set that featured Goldstein.
Tensions with MTV's Expectations
00:17:05
Speaker
Edwards' article notes that, Despite their long separation, they make an acoustic set sound graceful, effortless. The cello bolsters the group's sound, but as usual, the most powerful instrument is Kurt's voice. The piece also mentions that, the band unplug on a plane heart-shaped box and been a son which is an incredibly cool note as only one of those songs, On a Plane, was actually played during their unplugged taping four months later. Goldstein's first live appearance with the band was their new music seminar gig at Roseland Ballroom on July 23rd. That performance, their first in six months,
00:17:39
Speaker
Featured a 22-song set that previewed their forthcoming and utero album, featured Duncan's additional guitar on four bombastic electric numbers, and highlighted Goldstein's cello during an acoustic mini-set of Polly, Dumb, Something in the Way, and Where Did You Sleep Last Night, all four of which would appear during their Unplugged episode. um are
00:18:05
Speaker
um Following an unannounced one-off performance for the Mia Zapata Fund benefit in August, their last performance is just a trio, and their second Saturday Night Live appearance that September, which was their first public appearance with Pat Smear on 2nd Guitar, the band kicked off their North American tour for In utero with Goldstein in tow on October 18th in Phoenix, Arizona at the, and no I'm not joking, Arizona State Fair.
00:18:30
Speaker
At that gig, Goldstein not only accompanied the acoustic version of Polly, but also the electrified numbers like Dumb and Set Closer All Apologies as well. Goldstein toured with the band about a month prior to the unplugged taping, and a cursory survey of the setlist and reviews for those shows revealed the story of a developing experimentation for what they wanted to do with their unplugged set.
00:18:51
Speaker
Some nights had more acoustic songs than others, some cover songs began reappearing from years prior, and Chris Accordion started making an appearance. Which, by the way, as you'll hear in my chat with Goldston, the whole Chris Don Accordion thing may all be unintentionally thanks to her. On November 16th and 17th, just shy of a month into the tour and only two days prior to the unplug taping, the Nirvana crew set up shop in Weehawken, New Jersey's SST rehearsal space to finalize everything for their unplug taping.
00:19:21
Speaker
Amongst everything else that was going on within their unrelenting whirlwind of activity and attention, the fact that Nirvana was also finding the time and creative energy to conduct this months-long extended preparation for their upcoming Unplugged taping says a lot about both the band's attitude towards Unplugged and the show's reputation for generating memorable moments and lasting resonance within popular culture. At this point in Unplugged's trajectory, the show is in the middle of amassing its peak cultural saturation point.
00:19:50
Speaker
It was experiencing some of its most notable individual achievements. Clapton had netted a half dozen Grammys that February, and his Unplugged album had just been certified seven times platinum that September. Rod Stewart's new Unplugged album was already double platinum and had hit number two on the album charts, and Jodeci and Ten Thousand Maniacs had prominent hits on the radio from their recent Unplugged appearances. just to name a few. But also, just the overall momentum of the show's place in pop culture was becoming cemented even further by their continuing genre expansion into R and&B and hip hop.
00:20:33
Speaker
in their willingness to experiment with things like record label showcases, stand-up comedians, and spoken word poetry. but
00:20:51
Speaker
From a genre perspective, Unplugged was also just starting to assert itself as a platform by which alternative rock acts could really shine. The Cure and REM had each delivered incredible eps in 91, but that was right before the show had really gained traction and blown up.
00:21:06
Speaker
Pearl Jam's Phenomenal 92 show was most memorable for being a dynamic mixture of post-tour exhaustion and rented instruments that resulted in a flying by the seat of their pants success with little to no preparation or forethought. By 93, 10,000 Maniacs and Soul Asylum threaded even more creative layers into the unplugged alt-rock tapestry while Stone Temple Pilots taped their criminally underrated episode in the same two-day filming session as Duran Duran and Nirvana. Fun side note, all three acts from that session STP, Duran Duran, and Nirvana, unbeknownst to each other, all covered a David Bowie song during their respective unplugs. In subsequent years, alternative acts turning in awesome unplugged episodes would become pretty commonplace. The Cranberries, Hole, and Live in 95. Tori Amos, Oasis, and the legendary Alice in Chains episode in 96. Fiona Apple, Jewel, and the Wallflowers in 97. Alanis in 99. You get the picture.
00:22:03
Speaker
But in 1993, especially prior to the Nirvana taping, the seemingly foregone conclusion of a fortuitous unplugged alt-rock connection was still very much finding its feet, as most of the unplugged shine was still being attached to seasoned rock vets like Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Rod Stewart, and Bruce Springsteen.
00:22:21
Speaker
But much like Mariah Carey the year prior, Nirvana was about to have another huge hand in repositioning Unplugged back to the younger generation of MTV's target demo. So in the lead up, expectations were unquestionably high for what a Nirvana Unplugged could be. And while those expectations were certainly rooted in different ideologies for each camp, creatively for Nirvana and commercially for MTV, the equally intense levels of competing principles created a bit of a pressure cooker.
00:22:47
Speaker
As
Rehearsals with The Meat Puppets
00:22:48
Speaker
has often been reported with this story, MTV execs were looking for another standout performance of acoustically reworked tits and marquee-level special guests, which was an approach Nirvana could not have been less interested in. Add in all the other internal drama going on that I'm not really getting into here, substance abuse, royalty renegotiations, relational conflicts, musical direction, etc.
00:23:09
Speaker
And you've got an extremely high pressure situation that seemed destined to only generate either a disaster or a diamond. Thankfully, the two-day rehearsal in Weehawken with special guests Kurt and Chris Kirkwood of The Meat Puppets in Toe proved enough to pull everything into focus for the November 18th unplug taping. Over the years, a variety of stories have trickled out about which specific songs were being considered during the rehearsals. And there's even been some photos of physical set lists that have made the rounds.
00:23:36
Speaker
A new one even popped up just within the last year or two. Though, of course, all of the speculation, as fun as the what-ifs are, should be taken with a grain of salt. However, one of my favorite nuggets about the rehearsal setlist is that the one reportedly made by their guitar tech, Ernie Bailey, has the Nevermind era outtake, Old Age, written on it. Which Nirvana didn't end up doing for their Unplugged, but did get played by Courtney Love during Hole's Unplugged in 1995.
00:24:18
Speaker
As you'll hear in my chat with Goldston, the rehearsals weren't exactly as dynamically storied as some reports would have you believe. While I completely understand the fan curiosities, myself included, and the natural inclination to retroactively romanticize every corner of Nirvana lore, especially the unplugged adjacent parts,
00:24:36
Speaker
it was probably a bit more rote and uneventful than we'd all like to admit.
Goldston's Contributions to Unplugged
00:24:40
Speaker
That being said, I would still listen with rapt attention to every second of any audio that might ever turn up from those two days. I will say, it was pretty cool to hear Goldstein confirm that Molly's lips was definitely in contention. And while I would have flipped to hear that Sliver almost made the cut, that one seems to not really have been seriously pursued in the lead up and may just have been an impromptu day of almost ran prompted by the unplugged audience.
00:25:05
Speaker
Any requests?
00:25:18
Speaker
getting into the unplugged taping itself I'll deter myself from a beat-by-beat recap and at least for the purposes of today's episode discuss it through a Goldston anchored lens though I will say if you'd also like to revisit it from a different angle I interviewed Nirvana manager Danny Goldberg for the Grammys in 2019 to mark the 25th anniversary and that's still up on the Grammys website if you want to check it out During the unplugged taping, Goldstein played on just over half of the tracks, including most of the night's most memorable moments. She tastefully freshened up the Nirvana songs whose original album versions had already featured cello, like Something in the Way, Dumb, and All Apologies.
00:26:05
Speaker
She also infused a buttery melodic depth to fan favorites Polly and On A Plane.
00:26:17
Speaker
But it was on the trio of unconventional covers where she may have shown the brightest. On the renamed Vaseline's track Jesus Doesn't Want Me for a Sunbeam, which was the first time most Nirvana fans would have experienced her presence in the band, Goldstein's interplay with Nova Selik's accordion is both supportive and goading, allowing the beloved bass player's instrumental turn to be both successful and exciting.
00:26:46
Speaker
In the very next song, the, wait, is Kurt allowed to use a distortion pedal on an unplugged version of David Bowie's Man Who Sold the World? Goldstone provided the same inductive undergirding that provided both the melodic glue and the instrumental accelerant to great effect. Just listen to how Hercello beautifully lays the track below Cobain's blissfully buzzy outro solo.
00:27:22
Speaker
And then there's the definitively arresting Closer, Where Did You Sleep Last Night, in which Goldstein's gloomily groaning cello lines apparate around the band's ghostly musical conjuring and reinforces Cobain's emotional exhumation in a uniquely disquieting manner. There are so many elements to love and be haunted by in the band's otherworldly delivery of this song, but next time you give it a spin, pay special attention to the tonal colors of the cello and I guarantee you'll be bewitched anew.
00:28:06
Speaker
After the unplugged taping, Goldston continued playing with the band throughout the U.S. leg of their In utero tour through November, December, and into the New Year. Along with her celebrated appearance on Unplugged, which debuted in mid-December 1993, Goldston's contribution to the band's live sound could also be experienced on their MTV Live and Loud broadcast, a beautifully chaotic, fully electric live show filmed at Seattle's Pier 48 on December 13th and broadcast by MTV on New Year's Eve.
Continued Collaboration on In Utero Tour
00:28:46
Speaker
Goldstein again joined the band on tracks like All Apologies and The Man Who Sold the World, but we were also given a taste of her cello on some non-unplugged goodies like Blue as well.
00:29:04
Speaker
As I said in my introductory explainer episode covering Unplugged from 1989 to 1993, between my freshly home-brewed VHS copies of Unplugged and Live and Loud, my 93 middle school Christmas break was almost entirely soundtracked by Nirvana. Thankfully, the Live and Loud show finally got a proper release for its 20th anniversary in 2013.
00:29:25
Speaker
Goldston's last show with the band was a two-night stand at the Seattle Center Arena in early January 94. After Cobain's death that April, Goldston's cello work with the band became an even more indelible ingredient to their Unplugged Sonic splendor, as repeat airings of the initial broadcast continued throughout that spring and summer, while the Unplugged in New York album released that November also meant that she could now be heard playing with them on the radio and home stereos as well.
00:29:51
Speaker
Over the years, there have been countless discussions about the musical direction Cobain was wanting to take the band in, including rumors of wanting to become a permanent five-piece, and Goldstein's name has always been included in those fan-fueled what-if speculations. Other factors, such as conventional inclusion of Goldston and Smear in some publicity photos, most famously the January 27, 1994 issue of Rolling Stone that featured a black and white photo of Cobain and his high school cheerleading uniform flanked by Grohl, Novoselic, Smear, and Goldston in matching leather gear. Alongside all of the unplugged talk, of course I had to ask Goldston about that iconic photo as well. So let's use that as the segue teaser to lead into our interview.
00:30:32
Speaker
Like I said, she doesn't do a lot of interviews about her time with Nirvana, so I really hope you enjoy this discussion. Here's my chat with Nirvana cellist Lori Goldstein. Wait, you know what? Nevermind. Let me let Kurt introduce her.
00:30:44
Speaker
our friend laurri goldstein onllo
00:30:49
Speaker
All right, Lori, thank you so much for taking the time to be here on Unplugged Revisited. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you about your involvement in one of the just truly magical landmark live performances of all time with Nirvana's MTV Unplugged. So thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks a lot. Let's start back at the first connection point between you and Nirvana. Can you tell us how a classically trained cellist scores an invite to tour with one of the biggest, loudest, most wonderfully chaotic bands in the world?
00:31:20
Speaker
We had a friend in common who recommended me for it. She had done kind of a public art piece about the Balkan War that involved having cellists play around the city. And I think Christ had given some money for that project. He'd donated some money for that and was friends then with Belize and she knew all the cellists. She knew a lot of cellists from there. Oh, nice. Well, that was the connection when they were looking for gems.
00:31:46
Speaker
I was a real avid improviser and had played a little bit in bands and had started on guitar. So I kind of knew how guitarists work and think as opposed to needing all the music written out for me, which would have been and in general, that's pretty typical still. But at that time, I think it was much more typical that people really needed you know every note written down. They weren't doing anything off page.
00:32:16
Speaker
But in my case, you could just tell me what the chord changes are. You could just tell me something to me. so That ah improvisational background that you had, one of my curiosities was being that they'd already had cello on something in the way off Nevermind and two songs off the new album that was going to be coming out dumb and all apologies so also had cello parts. Did you feel like you kind of had a good idea of what they might be looking for you to contribute or were you just kind of going in blank slate?
00:32:44
Speaker
ah and No, I listen, I mean, they told me what songs I wanted to do when I listened to those songs. Obviously just, you know, figure out the parts. So that gave me a really good idea of what, yeah, that I totally understood the assignment.
00:32:58
Speaker
And I know that I believe the first show you played with them was at Roseland Ballroom in like late July of 93. And I know that that set list was a mixture of acoustic and electric songs. So was Unplugged already on the radar for them? Was like it being discussed? Absolutely, yes. My involvement had everything to do with Unplugged coming up.
00:33:19
Speaker
Very cool. And how was that first show? I've seen some pictures. You were like center stage, like in between Kurt and Christ. Was that an odd placement to be, or or were you cool right from the get playing with them? I mean, I felt really comfortable with them personally and musically, but it was playing in that kind of situation at for that many people was a stretch and with ah with so many logistics. And so it was, um, it was nerve wracking, but I guess it worked out.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. Like I was really nervous leading up to it. It kind of broke me of stage fright. forever. I never had a hardly a minute of s stage fright after that show. Oh, very cool. that Were there two shows at Roseland? I think that July performance you did with them was actually that new music conference type thing. And then I think yeah, you played with them at Roseland a second time once the actual tour got started that October. Oh, because the nice show with them in New York was someplace else. But maybe we did one on either end. Oh, okay.
00:34:25
Speaker
But it was really exciting to be at Roseland. that was that i was that was I was sad there was ah an aerial photo when they were tearing it down. And it was kind of the snow covered over this wreck. And it was really sad to see because it was really super legendary, very culturally significant in a lot of different ways. venue So it was a real thrill.
00:34:48
Speaker
Right. That's true. It is big culturally and also like, yeah, to you personally, that that had to be tough. Well, at that point, what were your thoughts on the band's preference playing acoustically? You know, they had a couple acoustic songs, but thinking about with their eye on Unplugged, what do you think their level of comfortability was at that point in midsummer? um I mean, it was kind of newish. And I think it was something that they talked about expanding on, like after Unplugged.
00:35:16
Speaker
They wanted to sound really good. It was cool that they were preparing so much for it. Like the whole tour was a preparation. You know, there was this, the all the shows on that I played with them had this kind of short unplugged set in the middle. At the time the unplugged sessions were coming out, you know, kind of hot and heavy. It was really the peak of that period. And there was a lot of discussion around them. It was a really novel idea and people wanted to really shine.
00:35:46
Speaker
It was a feeling like you get to really see what people are made of. like is it Is it just like the engineers and the producers making them sound good? What happens if you take all the bells and whistles away? yeah people can really Can people do it in such a bare bones setting? And there was just tons of discussion. Everybody's always sort of like rating. How was that? like People talked about the minutia of those all the time.
00:36:13
Speaker
like was that really unplugged or they're kind of amplified so it's kind of cheating like you can't you know what I mean yeah this is like where you get to really show what you can do so I think they you know sound I mean it sounded good they were good games I think it was a little you know it's a little awkward figuring out who's gonna play what finding the right instruments you know and there was a lot of like a lot of build up too You know, kind of thinking about that moment of Unplugged was kind of at its peak, but the peak still hadn't shifted yet because like the Tony Bennett one hadn't happened yet, but the Clapton and Mariah Carey had. um Do you remember what your own thoughts about what MTV Unplugged was around that time before you guys actually played it? No, I didn't watch TV. ah Nice. Okay.
00:36:59
Speaker
I was way off in some other weird realm by then, you know for many years already. Yeah, yeah. But i mean I knew the general discussion of it, but I yeah didn't know. I was never a regular watcher, i mean except for at somebody's house or in a bar. okay It was cool, but it was fun hearing this discussion, but it didn' not enough for me to like get cable TV. Right, yeah, exactly. Wasn't that big of a deal, yeah. Yeah, and I was really like in more you know I was always more of a kind of weird music person. So I got to be more of a rocker. Like later in life, that sort of, you know, launched me in that realm, more or less, although I played like a little bit with bands and I could see, you know, I could sit in. Yeah. But it wasn't really my thing as much. And I got more and more interested in rock. I mean, I listened to
00:37:56
Speaker
rock records all the time. But, you know, as far as like me being in the, in the thick of that, it wasn't. Yeah. Wasn't on the radar. Not much proof really. Some, you know, and yeah I kind of like what I like and I, you know, I listen a lot to like one album or one band or something like that. But yeah at that point,
00:38:15
Speaker
and really kind of never, you know, it was never like needed to know what everybody was doing. And that was kind of more of what MTV was like, you know what I mean? But yeah, exactly. know Like pass pass by me and I get excited. But not not a good fan. I'm not a good music fan. It's unbalanced.
00:38:34
Speaker
You're like, I'm more of a musician than an actual. I'm really super nerdy. And so yeah, like when I met them, I would never, if I didn't know really who they were. Like I maybe knew their names a little. And I knew the band. I knew I liked their albums a lot, you know, but, and when I would hear their songs like, Oh yeah, that band. Wow. You could really.
00:38:55
Speaker
like that, they really have a sound that's like really doing something. Yeah, yeah it was. So I was and enthusiastic about the music, but I didn't know any of them as like celebrities, it just, no interest in that. The way it helped me to, you know, sort of like just stay on task. The fame part of it, it was like not really much of a distraction
Goldston's Sound Approach with Nirvana
00:39:21
Speaker
for me. Yeah. I imagine that had to be a big plus for them as well. Cause they probably didn't run into too many folks like that around that time. I know it's helpful. Yeah. It's nice. It's sort of refreshing. I think for when people get super, super, super famous.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't have known him if I fell on him. I didn't know i just just had no interest in that. I know you started touring with them in October and with the eye on Unplugged that you guys had two dedicated rehearsals that took place a couple of days before. And there have been all sorts of stories written about, you know, those two days, but from your own insider's perspective, what do you recall about sort of the overall vibe and direction of those two Unplugged rehearsals that took place at SST and in New Jersey?
00:40:04
Speaker
Um, I mean, people ask me about those rehearsals all the time. And for me, you know, they were just rehearsals. Like, kind what's the job? What do you, what do I need to play? Another day at the office. i would play him as well as i can yeah was I just was kind of clocking in. I mean, they, it was fun and, you know,
00:40:24
Speaker
We were on like a sound stage and you know glamorous or whatever, but that but when it comes down to it, it's one of probably thousands of rehearsals in my life. I was just like, what do you want me to play? There you go. I'm just going to try to nail it. That's the beginning and the end of it. Essentially, from my perspective, and yeah I don't remember anything very specific other than it was just really kind of like down to business. or Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was very focused on the task at hand. It's just like a rehearsal. I know people ask me about them, like those legendary things. It was like, well, it felt like a rehearsal. Right. Yeah. We were, we were about to make the thing. We weren't making it yet. People probably don't know what a rehearsal feels like. So that's probably a little exotic. There you go. Yeah. It's a day at the office. Absolutely.
00:41:19
Speaker
A few different set lists have kind of shown up over the years, which songs, you know, were being considered for the show. Um, but I was curious about some of the ones that have been rumored to be rehearsed, but maybe didn't end up making the cut. Are there any that immediately spring to mind for you that y'all may have practiced for Unplugged, but didn't play on the day? Um, you know, I'm really bad at song titles. That's kind of my Achilles heel. Okay. Uh, but if you mentioned some, I could probably yeah. Yeah. yeah Your name.
00:41:49
Speaker
Well, some of the main ones I was curious about, I've seen a couple ones that had Molly's lips on, which I thought would have always been an incredible unplugged version. That one and also Sliver, I was curious about that one because it seemed like they were toying with almost playing that one during the show.
00:42:05
Speaker
Molly's lips was definitely in the discussion. It might've been in the discussion in the summer. Sliver, I don't remember a discussion of it. I was also like, same thing. I'm just sort of like, what do I need to know? You know, like what, but, and that was like just a conversation, right? Like, I don't know if you can try this, you know what I mean? So yeah, that would be, that's not like something I would have needed to track on. Random conversation more. That makes sense. Okay.
00:42:34
Speaker
I think it would have been at that level. I don't think there was like any long discussion about it. Yeah. And then coming out of those rehearsals, like in your opinion, what was kind of consensus? Did the rehearsal seem to elicit more confidence or more nervous trepidation? There was some combination. it if It felt okay, but felt a little, um, I think just everybody wanted to do really good job. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's like a lot of, uh, hope or, you know, a lot of like,
00:43:04
Speaker
um, very earnest effort, you know, yeah and just like, wow, yeah, I hope that goes. Okay. You know, like, and then, right, right. Right. And so then, you know, and even, yeah, that so there was why at the beginning and he says, like, you know, we might do some songs over and, uh, you know, just like if it doesn't work out or whatever. To me, I thought it sounded a little better in rehearsal.
00:43:28
Speaker
And, uh, I was kind of surprised that they didn't do any of them over, but I think that was just my poor judgment. Also, uh, again, like I am just super on task and I want to get to make sure everything things were, I didn't even feel like I screwed up or anything like that, but you know, I was a little bit like, well, that sounded good, but you know, we could probably do it a little better. Yeah.
00:43:51
Speaker
and but maybe better with isn't good because also I didn't hadn't really done much like producing or anything like that at the time and I have sometimes I think as well for years I think I had a kind of ambivalent feeling about having classical training and I still struggle with it really that's like the the parameters are so tight and you're sort of thinking about things being right or wrong and I think I've always had a pretty good sense of the feel of things, the just the general feel, which is certainly where rock and many other kinds of music really shine, yeah where you're not worried like if somebody makes some mistakes, it's, well, it doesn't matter because maybe that's even better. you know Maybe there's something
00:44:38
Speaker
really crazy and chaotic and juicy is happening. So anyway, those are sort of like, that's sort of like the binary of like classical and not classical. And I get a little stuck in it sometimes still even, although I'm very far from it at this point. So like for me, I was like, I don't know, it seemed a little sloppy. What do I know? ah yeah I wasn't in charge.
00:45:02
Speaker
but Everybody's like, it's funny that it's like, it's like such a stellar thing now. And I was like, I guess I was wrong about that. That's so funny. They weren't listening to me. Nobody asked me. I didn't say. Right. Exactly. You'd be like, guys, let's just scrap it and come back tomorrow. Take two. Turn it up here a little, you know, but of course it's sounding so kind of loose and woozy and fragile is what makes it really magical.
00:45:26
Speaker
Absolutely. I will say ah as someone who is self admittedly obsessive about Unplugged as an entity, it is really impressive the fact that there wasn't anything played twice. It was like you're you're going to get yeah first take of everything. And I think that especially cohesively, when you listen through to the album, that sort of raw humanity and presentness, even though it was being filmed for a television show, yeah absolutely. Yeah, no, yeah, it's a very ephemeral thing. And that was really preserved and nurtured. And it's a very subtle thing. And that really, I mean, yeah, and that's why the band, that's why it's, you know, people still feel really strongly about that band. And I think it's that I think that's what it is that really, yeah especially sort of like, like in Europe, ah
00:46:12
Speaker
people really go crazy for that band because I think it was just like all like electronic music that was happening. It was so much electronic music. And then here's this just like raw visceral fingers on strings and somebody hitting something, you know, yeah, yeah harling and it's just like, so yeah I think it was so moving to people on really people really imprinted on it for that way in this very, you know, like gut level human way Oh, absolutely. I could not agree with you more. I think words like visceral and gut level are absolutely spot on. Yeah, it's nice though, huh? So it's like, yeah, it's so poetic. and like
00:46:52
Speaker
Yeah. Well, getting into the actual day of filming for Unplugged, even though you had been touring with the band, this was your first major televised performance with them. So I was curious, did it take any pressure off of you getting to be introduced to the majority of the Nirvana fan base via a couple cover songs first, since the two song the first two songs that you play on on Unplugged are the Vaseline's cover and the Bowie cover?
00:47:16
Speaker
Uh, no, that didn't dawn on me at all. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. I didn't register in the slightest. Cool. Cool. Well, let's start the, uh, the unplugged set list. let's Let's talk about it. You had already been playing both of those covers with them on tour. So did you get to sort of develop your part show over show, or were you kind of locked into what you were going to play right early on? Uh, probably pretty early on. It might've drifted a little or probably changed it around a little. Yeah, it was mostly set. Because I will say I think for both of those songs, I think that your interplay with Chris accordion on sunbeam and then the way you really undergird Kurt Solo on man who sold the world is genuinely some of the most instinctively complimentary musicianship of the whole show. It was some really gorgeous playing on those. Those are some of my favorite parts. Yeah, no, I love that kind of thing. And I've been doing, you know, all kinds of like, really a lot of different kinds of ensemble stuff and working with singers and, you know, so, ah but yeah, that I really, I love that, like really fusing things or Yeah, I was just talking about that was actually I did a show last night with the singer Shelley Hersh. And I was talking about how ah it was
00:48:30
Speaker
It was totally improvised. And I was saying how there was like a particular way of playing that where you're playing and supporting the singer so that the singer can be understood hopefully even better when you're playing than when you're not, as opposed to bearing them, you know, which is easy with cello because it's right in the same range. It's very vocal.
Reflecting on MTV Unplugged Experience
00:48:54
Speaker
So I had to really figure out how to sort of duck down and just kind of use the way I play and yeah thought about it a lot. And I studied a lot of kinds of arrangement to get Like I would was listening to a lot of stuff that was sort of with like big pretty big ensembles from like the 20s and 30s and also oh okay opera and just, you know, all these different relationships people made between instruments and yeah and voice in particular. And I also am married to an accordionist. Oh, okay.
00:49:31
Speaker
So I was really comfortable with playing with both of those, like just drop is I guess a lot I can just drop into. Oh, that makes so much sense. Yeah. That's one of the things that I feel like that sometimes when we talk about bands that we don't talk about enough or in depth enough is the difference between people playing at the same time versus people actually playing with each other. Like sometimes, you know, you can listen to a band and yeah, for people, they have their parts and they just happen to be playing them all for simultaneously. Oh, yeah. no Oh, yeah. That's really where the magic happens.
00:50:03
Speaker
last night when I was talking with Shelly, or talking about the set with Shelly, and I was saying how it was nice because it was like this, you know, avant-garde performance or whatever. So I it was a chance where I could just didn didn't do it too much, but sometimes try to play in a way where you like couldn't understand the work.
00:50:22
Speaker
but then sort of drop back down to the, it was like a kind of a weird luxury. and you Like, Oh, wow, this is fun. I don't usually get to do this. Usually people want to hear the singer, but in that case, and it was nice to just, yeah, yeah. And in undistinguishable tangles for, you know, team ah I love that.
00:50:42
Speaker
I can also say about the accordion thing that I i could be wrong but my impression was that ah so like they called me up and they got my number and um Chris called me and came over to just like kind of chat and I don't know probably just to chat and my husband's accordion was sitting out and he was like Oh, wow. Can I try that? I used to play a accordion when I was a kid. My parents made me take accordion lessons. And we had a really fun time playing. And I think that was what got the wheels turning for putting accordion in there. Wow. Because I think he hadn't picked one up since he was like 11 or something.
00:51:22
Speaker
That is incredible. Wow. Oh, what a what a serendipitous moment. And the accordion's nice. i Yeah, accordion's always good to add accordion. It always adds a lot of, it's like such a, it sounds really good and it's like a little, you know, or it goes to it in a box and then it always is so evocative, you know, of whatever, yeah like sailors or whatever, you know, it's really a great instrument.
00:51:45
Speaker
That's fantastic. I love that. I'm so glad it was out in the room that day. yeah That's such an incredible moment. Okay, very cool. So after you play those two songs and then Kurt played Penny Royalty by himself, you all joined back in for a chunk of originals. Two of the songs had had already featured cello on the original album versions and two of them had not within that chunk. So first, I was curious if you could tell us how you ah approached enhancing the existing cello parts of dumb and something in the way.
00:52:14
Speaker
I probably learned it at the for, you know, for the first rehearsal for Roseland, and then it was like playing telephone with myself or something, you know, like that I played it so many times after that. So and I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have checked back about it, because say whatever I was doing was probably okay. yeah And I mean, in general, it's kind of hard to keep things fresh in that situation, like to just I'm not really used to playing the same thing exactly the same way, like it's on the record. So yeah, normally ah try things out or do things kind of different every time. Nice. And then the other two songs in that chunk that didn't originally have cello Polly and on a plane, did the band give you any direction or or did they just kind of let you run with it and let you do what you wanted to on those two songs? Cause you really nailed it. Oh, that's nice. Thanks. I probably, you know, I don't remember specifically about any of them, but generally the process would have been for me to come up with a part and maybe sometimes there'd be counter melody that Kurt would home to me. yeah Maybe sometimes ask me to change something around. so But yeah, I don't remember any specifics about which song was which.
00:53:31
Speaker
And then after the trio of Meat Puppets covers, you joined back in again for just that absolute knockout punch combination of all apologies and where did you sleep last night, which both are just unquestionable absolute standouts. Did you have any sense as it was happening, like as those two songs were being played, especially where did you sleep last night of how transcendent those performances would end up being?
00:53:56
Speaker
Uh, you know, I just, uh, try to do as good a job as I can when I'm like, that's my job. And I don't really think about anything else. It's kind of good though. Yeah. I mean, it felt good. It felt really nice. Obviously we were well rehearsed and it felt great to play. And it was also, uh, I was again, more nervous than I would normally be because there are these, you know, boom or I'm sad whatever so that was ah that was a little
00:54:30
Speaker
distracting so it was having like slightly out of body experience from that. So I wouldn't have been a little you know, normally I'd probably be like more 1000% in it. And I, you know, on some level, I was a nice to know the song so well, it was just mostly, mo you know, sort of muscleman, you know, but but it was, um you know, my credit, it wasn't like a real, you know, high point of critical thinking, because it was just like, really, the whole thing was so weird. Oh, sir sure. so And so high pressure. And yeah, so yeah, it was a little bit, yeah you know, kind of back on the heels.
00:55:07
Speaker
Okay. Did you have a favorite snapshot memory of that night on or off stage? Is there anything that sort of sticks with you? Um, it I mean, it was really, really nice. Um,
00:55:19
Speaker
having them meet puppets there. Like they'd been on tour with us and I really loved hearing them and learned a lot from watching them and liked, you know, like hanging out and talking with them a lot. So that, like when I think of the session, I think of the part where they're there just because it was like, so, yeah so cozy. And then they played so well. And like afterwards, I remember Kirk Kirkwood said, said like, that was so fun to just get to play and not have to worry about singing, I can play so much better. play And it was, and it was really stunning, you know, to watch. And then, yeah, I remember being, I just remember being backstage and they were sort of talking about whatever famous people were around, or they were like some supermodels wandering around and stuff. So it was weird, you know, kind of celebrity. yeah And I had some friends from New York, I have were a lot of friends in New York, and I have some friends in the audience.
00:56:16
Speaker
nice very cool okay but so yeah it was real sweet nice kind of homecoming feeling for me and then also nice to be around like to just be put up in like super nice hotel right but you for rehearsals like to be there yeah to be there for a stretch of time and it's this really comfy especially kind of so close to the holidays and thanksgiving all that weather had to be nice Yeah, right. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. Well, let's ah talk just a little bit about the reception of Unplugged. Since you were still touring with them when the episode was first broadcast in December of 93, what do you remember the immediate conversations being about? Were they happy with it? Were fans kind of talking about it at shows and stuff? I don't remember. Okay. I don't remember there being much discussion, but everybody was super tired by then too. It was like touring a lot and everybody was kind of dragging themselves around.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah, we got like the flu and you know, so it's a little bit like little little bit low energy. Oh, like, yeah, just one foot in front of the other. A bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't remember exactly when it came out, but you know, I remember the tail end of the short beam. Yeah. Everybody was ready for a break. Okay. And then during that immediate post broadcast window, because I know you were on tour with them even into January, were there already any talks about releasing it as an album yet? Was that even on anyone's mind or not yet? I don't remember. That would have been really a thing I was
00:57:43
Speaker
or you know, it would have been me more overhearing stuff was certainly and involved in the decisions. and Okay, this question has a little bit of ah of a long lead up to it. I've hypothesized over the years that Nirvana's Unplugged went through three distinct phases in less than a year. There was the first phase of its recording and broadcast late 93, early 94. There was the second phase of what it became after Kurt's death in April of 94. And then the third phase of the celebrated response to when the album came out that following November. So as part of the creative engine that helped craft the whole thing, has it evolved and changed at all for you over the years?
00:58:23
Speaker
um I mean, things change over time, generally. They're over a long stretch of time. So that is interesting from my perspective and kind of unknowable to know its significance and now people have grown up with it. um I mean, for me, one of the main thing that's that's changed is that I don't get paid for anything from it. Oh, that's turned into this kind of like,
00:58:50
Speaker
huge astounding fact for me. okay and it'd say you know And cast the shadow on it for me personally, although I'm certainly proud of that work and glad I did it. yeah yeah But I just think of like all the people who have you know made money on Hot Topic t-shirts or whatever.
00:59:09
Speaker
Right. You know, I mean, that's the capitalism and the music business that the people who make things don't get the money. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So that's been sort of a lesson. That's been like a harsh lesson in capitalism for me. Yeah, that's understandable. I never thought that Yeah, okay, I gotcha. How much money has been made off of it? Or, you know,
00:59:31
Speaker
It's like really 0% like really nothing, you know, that is yeah, that is kind of wild. It's wild. um Yeah, last time I checked, I think it was eight times platinum. It's huge. Like so many images of it are so iconic. And like you're saying used on merch and stuff. 0% Yeah, that's wild. Wow. Okay. yeah Well then that that may actually shade the the answer a little bit to this question. I was curious if you actually ever go back and and listen to it or like watch it on DVD or anything. If so, kind of what what do you hear and see if you revisit it at all?
01:00:05
Speaker
i I don't ever. No, and yeah I would never just like put it on. That's fair. yeah I mean, the story has a bad ending. So, ah you know, that really, that really shapes it. But I'm not also I don't really listen to my own work. Yeah, that much. No, yes, but it's yeah, it's very emotional. I mean, it makes you know, I like hearing it and it sounds beautiful. And, you know, I'm glad I i i see it around.
Episode Conclusion and Future Topics
01:00:32
Speaker
It was in a bar or something that comes on TV or I hear it on in the store and I'm really you know proud of that work. And I totally get you know why it still really touches people. But it's yeah, it's always always a little sad. i mean Yeah. Yeah. Makes me you know feel pretty terrible about what happened. yeah's very emotional yeah Absolutely. Yeah. So last question here, you've collaborated with an insane amount of musicians. For anybody who wants to hop on Lori's website and look at her CV, it is absolutely wild.
01:01:07
Speaker
I was curious, you know, you played with so many different like bands and big ensembles and small just duos with two people. What is something that you learned or something that specifically characterizes this very unique, very public collaborative period you had with Nirvana?
01:01:24
Speaker
Um, you know, anything that I do amplified was completely about that period. ah Mostly just from being around people who are really, really good at amplifying things, like all day, every day, basically living with people backstage and in the bus or whatever. ah And, um you know, certainly from you know working with the Nirvana folks and then also that they hire people who they really liked and really respected and really wanted to hear to open. So there were a ton of really, really great opening bands and I watched them every night. I watched
01:02:06
Speaker
from the side of stage every night and asked a lot of questions. And Eve's dropped on a lot of really nerdy gear conversations. There you go. People would hit up the music stores and the pawn shops on tour. And I think also watching Trump's side of stage, I learned a lot just from their physicality with the instruments and the gear. So, you know, anything I've done amplified is really, really, really influenced by that period in that way. That's amazing. That's very cool that you've been carrying that. Yeah, no, that was pure gold. That part was really pure gold for me. And I think of it more like a guitarist than most people would think of amplifying a tune. Usually people had these kind of solid state acoustic amplifiers or whatever.
01:02:58
Speaker
run direct out or whatever. And I have a tortured tube amplifier. There you go. Yeah. and All those people. ah Right. Right. Turn it on, let it warm up, walk away for a little bit. Yeah.
01:03:11
Speaker
You know, yeah, push it, you know, just run it, boost the signal and make it break up. Nice. Very cool. Okay. Well, I said that was going to be the last question, but I did have just one bonus question and I'm not sure if it will actually fit into the interview or not. This may just be for my own curiosity, but what's the story behind that one black and white Rolling Stone promo shot of all five of you, Kurt's in the cheerleading outfit. And everyone else is in like leather and stuff. Yeah. What's the story behind that photo? It was just we were in Kalamazoo, Michigan on tour and they were going to do an early stone article, I guess. And we just had this photo shoot. It was in this old, uh, they just rented this space and brought in, you know, a photographer who brought in his own people. And, um, uh, it was in like a old industrial space. It's a, you know, just a photography studio. Um, And they just brought this box of costumes for us to dig through. Okay. And that was what we ended up with. Gotcha. Okay. That, that's easily one of my favorite Nirvana publicity shots just because it's so cool. Like the, the juxtaposition is very cool, but it's also just kind of cool seeing the five piece. There weren't a lot of professional shot photos. Yeah. As a five. That was unusual. Yeah. And so the rest were kind of just for us to figure out and figure out what we liked and what fit. But the cheerleader outfit is from Kurt's high school. So that was specifically, that was kind of set. Oh, perfect. Okay. So that Bobcats thing, that was his high school mask.
01:04:47
Speaker
beautiful. i love I love that. So I don't know if there's a color version out there, but I think I've only seen the black. and No, no, there's no it was it was in black and white. Yeah, it was yeah originally in but on you know on on film. Yeah. And then there was another there was also they did that same one where Kurtz with the doll heads like that was kind of like again ready to go in the next room if I remember.
01:05:08
Speaker
I've seen that one too. Yeah, it's kind of like a green shelf or whatever. Oh, those are some stunning shots for sure. yeah yeah yeah he did a great job Okay, well, awesome. Well, um, Lori, thank you again for being just so generous with your time and for entertaining all my questions. I know, I appreciate it. i um Usually I say no to stuff like this, but I could sort of just tell that you were, you know, really, it was going to be like a deep dive and not just like somebody asking me stuff you could just look up or whatever, just to ask me like I could tell. There was something, your approach was good, so I could tell that was like... Oh, nice. Oh, this guy's really really deep in this, okay. That means the absolute world coming from you, so thank you so much for that. Yeah, that's great. It's been an absolute just dream to chat with you um about this. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks.
01:06:01
Speaker
Man, what an honor to get to talk with Lori about her experience contributing not only to one of my favorite live albums ever, but one of the most beloved, heartbreaking, and soul-stirring and equal measure live performance musical statements of all time. My thanks again to her for being so gracious with her time and memories, and like I said earlier, I highly recommend going to her website, LoriGoldston.com, and checking out her incredible CV of albums, collaborations, and live performances. as well as her Bandcamp page, which has a lot of her awesome albums to sample and purchase. Her most recent releases, This Summer's Convolutions and Last Year's All Points Leaning In, a collaborative album with Greg Kelly, are really mesmerizing. Before we shut things down this week, don't forget, I'm running the 10,000 Maniacs Unplugged Giveaway contest.
01:06:47
Speaker
All you have to do to enter is send an email to unpluggedrevisited at gmail dot.com telling me just one thing you like about the 10,000 maniacs unplugged and if you prefer to enter the CD or vinyl giveaway. If you want to enter both giveaways, just send two emails plus you can double your chances by rating and reviewing unplugged revisited wherever you stream the show and include a screenshot in your email.
01:07:10
Speaker
You can also connect about any other unplugged related fun via email, social media, or by leaving a voicemail at 234-REVISIT. I'll be back with another show in two weeks, and no spoilers, but I'll just say we're headed to the early 2000s, friends. As always, please take a moment to follow the pod on your platform of choice so that it'll automatically pop into your feed whenever it goes live. Until then, my friends, be kind to yourself and look out for each other.