Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Dominykas Bytautas from Ugly Side Up
42 Plays1 year ago
Dominykas Bytautas is the singer, guitar player and primary songwriter for Ugly Side Up a 90s rock band stuck in the 21st century, featuring fast, dancey songs about life's glory and lack thereof. He’s an LA transplant, originally from Galveston Texas.
We two “reasonable geniuses” have a very fun conversation that covers among other things his dislike of eggs, spreadsheets, Richard Pryor in Superman 3, Weezer and River’s Cuomo’s notebooks and whether he would accept a call from Jack Antonoff to produce his next album, or to what degree he’d edit his art to sign with Columbia.
Damon Albarn on Creating Clint Eastwood
https://youtube.com/shorts/kn8ocOsdbEo?si=qlDyuqRS7f1tiX54
To support my work on this podcast and my musical journey, join my Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/wilsbach
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Band Origins
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Willsbach's SongPod, a show where we dig deep into the songs and artists that move us and how we're moved to craft the songs we write. I'm Tim Willsbach and I write, release, and perform music as Willsbach and you can find me anywhere you stream music. Let's dig in.
00:00:17
Speaker
Ugly Side Up is a 90s rock band stuck in the 21st century featuring fast, dancy songs about life's glory or lack thereof. Founded in 2016 in Austin, texaslist Texas and relocating to Los Angeles in 2018, they released their first EP called Fool in 2021 featuring the singles Summer Comes in Summer Goes and A Broken Heart for Two, the latter being nominated for Best Music Video Shot on a Cell Phone at the LA Music Video Awards.
00:00:46
Speaker
In 2022, the band released their first full-length, This Is A Robbery, featuring the singles Wasted and This Is How I Say Hello. Since 2023, they have released five singles, including Magic Johnson, which receives regular airplay on Radio FM-88-5, The SoCal Sound.
Meet Dom and Band Name Story
00:01:03
Speaker
Welcome to Willsbox Songpod, Dominiquis Spitotis.
00:01:08
Speaker
Did I say that right? You said it perfectly. That's the tough one. That's why I just go by Dom. Dom's so much easier instead of Dominique is Betotus. Yeah, nice. And that's why I made a band because my name would be terrible to try to like spell and get people to listen to.
00:01:24
Speaker
Exactly exactly what so ugly side up but talk about the that name where is where does that come from so i am a big fan of lists and spreadsheets and things like that that started when i was like in high school so in college i started a list of band names.
00:01:39
Speaker
And there was a lot of different names on there like Poseidon, Corrosion, One Sad Bomb, just like so many. And I would like record like really bad stuff under those names for fun. And then when I decided, OK, I want to do this for real, I want to actually make a band, play shows, I looked at that list and Ugly Side Up was on that list. And I thought it was the best one. And I remember I was with my friend at Waterloo Records in Austin.
00:02:05
Speaker
And we just saw some little kitschy thing called sunny side up. And he said, hey, ugly side up. That's cool. If you change sunny to ugly. And I don't like eggs. So that's why I don't do the egg thing. A lot of people are like, why don't you see your logo like an egg? I don't like eggs. So a little play on sunny side up. OK, nice. Yeah.
Dom's Background and Family Ties
00:02:24
Speaker
You mentioned Austin. Are you from Austin originally? So I'm from Galveston, Texas originally. But I went to school in Austin. I went to college there.
00:02:32
Speaker
And you know I visited throughout the years, too. it's kind of um My town's very small, so I used to go to Houston a lot. It's just like an hour north where I'm from. so ah But yeah, I'm a Texas boy throughing through and through. Gotcha. But I don't sound like it, I bet. Yeah, you don't you don't have the you don't have the draw. It's like me, a Chicagoland guy, and I don't think and don't think I have a Chicago accent. I get Midwest vibe, but I didn't think Chicago. I wasn't like, hey, Chicago. This guy is Chicago. Right, right. I didn't get that.
00:02:58
Speaker
Um, I, that comes out a little bit. If I, if I go home, if I go back, but like nobody, nobody really lives there. I have, I have a cousin that lives there and then my aunt kind of comes back and forth between there and and Palm Springs. So we don't really get back there a whole lot. My, basically my whole family lives in Nashville now. So if if I'm going home.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's actually to somewhere that I've never lived. right So it's weird. funny ah well Fun fact, I was actually born in Nashville, Tennessee, oh okay but I moved to Galveston. I didn't move. My parents moved and they just dragged me along when I was nine months old. So Galveston's my home, but I was born in Nashville. um Gotcha.
00:03:35
Speaker
All right. And you have, as as we talked about, you have a very interesting name. What what nationality is that originally? It's Lithuanian. My parents are from Lithuania. They immigrated to the US. They're both from there. And then they had me, so first generation American as well. All right. Excellent. So let's talk about some songs. OK. Let's do it.
Songwriting Processes and Emotional Connection
00:03:53
Speaker
Yeah. So the first question that I typically like to ask people, and really the whole reason for this podcast is the central question we're trying to ask here is, how do you write a song? OK.
00:04:05
Speaker
Okay, very interesting. So um I get asked that a lot. Actually, I got a tattoo yesterday and then I tattoo artists. We just talked about music and they asked me how I write. So I kind of prepared for this. and Nice. um I usually start with lyrics because lyrics are my favorite part of music. So um how I look at it is I want to write lyrics that are good.
00:04:27
Speaker
just good solid lyrics that I enjoy, they evoke a feeling, they rhyme well, I can see myself singing them to people, I can see be people connecting to it. And then I usually have like a melody in my head and I add music to it and the music I add I want to serve as the lyrics. So it's about to me lyrics primary then like music secondary.
00:04:53
Speaker
Um, sometimes I even just, I have a list told you, I, I'm going to be talking about lists and lists that I have. I have a list of just song titles that I think are cool song titles. Sometimes I get in the mood. I want to write a song. I look at that list and I think of what title jumps out at me and I just write what I think it means to me. And then.
00:05:11
Speaker
And then the song is born in probably 15 minutes. And then I determined if it's good or not in five minutes after that. And then I don't go back to it or I do. Yeah. So you're writing to title more often, more often than not. That's kind of, yeah. Yeah. And what actually what I've been doing recently too is kind of trying to write to a theme. Cause so I don't know how often you write. I would love to know. I write all the time. Like I usually write.
00:05:37
Speaker
By average, it's probably like five songs a week. Wow. I just can't not is the thing I if I'm idle, I just sit down and just start writing something and usually it's I don't even know what it's about until like way later.
00:05:53
Speaker
Um, but I will sometimes, since I write so much, I need kind of inspiration because, you know, my life is, it's cool. It's good. But sometimes I need, uh, I just think of like themes and I, I'm really a big fan of concept albums and stuff. So sometimes I write songs to fit albums in my head, just to a theme because I, that's how I sort it in my head.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. web Yeah. And that's great. You have you have to write a ton to you know, it's like a muscle, you just have to kind of exercise that creativity and constantly put it the more you write, the the more often you're gonna the good songs are going to kind of sift through and and you're going to end up with with better ones. You know, it's there's there's a ratio, right? Almost like absolutely x number of songs to get one that you that you like and you connect with and you want to you know, record and put out in the into the world. um I kind of go in in spurts. um You know, I'm a little, i'm I was gonna say a little bit older, I'm a lot older than you. um And there was a time where I wrote a ton more, ah but now now it's kind of, it kind of comes in waves a little bit. i I would love to write more than I do, but you know, two kids and a job and you know, all this other stuff and just life gets in the way sometimes. But um what I do when I'm really kind of in the,
00:07:10
Speaker
in the groove of of being creative and i and i miss it when i'm not in that mode um but i do this thing and i talked about this on the pod before but there's a book called um the artist way by julia cameron yeah i've heard of it i uh i used to work at bartons and noble i sold many copies oh nice okay yeah So she has this thing, the takeaway for me is this thing called morning pages, where it's literally the first thing that you do in the morning before you've had your coffee or you talking to anyone or read the news or whatever. The first thing you do, grab your notebook, grab a pen, and just write for three through three pages of longhand. Doesn't have to make any sense, doesn't have to be a story, it doesn't have to be anything you would ever put out into the world. It's just put pen to paper and let your brain kind of go, here's what's on my mind.
00:07:55
Speaker
And it it really, it it sounds strange at first, but for me at least, it really does a great job of like filtering through all the stuff in my head and letting me know like, oh, this is what you really want to talk about. And I've gotten a ton of songs, ideas just from kind of doing that exercise. So when I'm really in it and and I'm doing that, I'm i'm i like, yeah, I don't know if I write five songs a week, but you know, I'm like,
00:08:19
Speaker
um um i have I have a regular output that I'm that i'm happy with. And then the other another thing that i do but I've done in the past too is this, I don't know if you've ever been part of these like write songwriting games where someone will give you a topic or a title on Wednesday and they say, okay, everybody in the group has until next Wednesday to write a song that includes this word or phrase or title or theme or whatever. um and I love that. I'm a very like deadline driven person. like so if i if i have ah If I have a deadline and someone has given me just a little spark of inspiration, that's I love to kind of run with that. gotcha them that's That's cool. I like both of those methods. I know I remember I watched an interview with Billy Corgan
00:09:02
Speaker
Like when I was very young, like at high school or something, and he talked about how he loves to write in the morning. Like he'll wake up and then just start writing. And that's how he wrote like most of like they're smashing pumpkins, big stuff ah all in the morning. And he still does it to this day. And I'm actually the opposite because I haven't tried writing in the morning that much. Sometimes it works. I wrote a song this morning actually. So um before this, I was just, I woke up early and was like,
00:09:29
Speaker
i I have a song in my head. I'm going to write it real quick. Love it. But I like the day to happen and that I get inspiration from the day happening. And then at the end of the day, like I come home and sometimes I just sit down and just write a song or two or, you know, stuff like that. But um I haven't read the artist's way. I haven't read really a lot of books about songwriting or even just being an artist in any of that kind of way. ah I know so many that have been recommended to me. And I don't know, I just haven't yet. I feel like I will get to them, you know,
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah. Right. But i mean I feel the same too. like It's usually spurts. like i don't write I haven't written five songs a week since I was 16. You know what i mean it's like yeah get writer's block, and I get bummed out when I get writer's block. And I try to write, but and it's nothing's good. And you try to force it. But yeah ah you let it come to you. And then after you write 1,000 songs, at least five are good.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. That ratio. but Yeah, I actually I was
'Magic Johnson' Creation and Songwriting Approach
00:10:27
Speaker
listening. You know, you listen to my music. I listen to yours. yeah um Shadow and spotlight and I was wondering. Is it, cause it sounded kind of to me like a concept album. Is it kind of like that or how did you write that? um You know what? it not It didn't start out as a concept album, um but there's there's kind of recurring themes of ah of, you know, again, shadow and spotlight, kind of this push-pull between wanting to be, you know, an artist and out in the open and on stage and hey, look at me. And at the same time,
00:10:58
Speaker
being like, oh, that's um I'm cringing because you're like looking at my output. And like I came across this quote like a week ago, and I'm going to butcher it, but it's something along the lines of like being creative being a creative person or being creative is being comfortable with embarrassment or something like yeah like that, risking risking being embarrassed. So it's kind of it's kind of around around that. A lot of those songs were Um, you know, uh, COVID, uh, like COVID songs too. So yeah. Um, but interesting, what, what part of that is, what part of,
00:11:35
Speaker
Why did you think that was concept concept album? Is there stuff that you're hearing that kind of connects? Or i curious? is a Yeah, well, I got the um you reference kind of like shadows and so i light, I thought, quite a few times. But the the thing that got to me was the first song. Because the first song sounds very much like an introduction. like Yeah, totally. Like, this is the album. And and it was kind of like just set up the theme. And that's and then you know I listened to it once through. And I really enjoyed it, by the way. Nice. Thanks, man. I listened to it more. yeah um
00:12:06
Speaker
But yeah, I just i kind of got that vibe. And the thing is also, if I'm being honest, I'm searching for that. Whenever I listen to an album, I'm always looking for some kind of theme because that's what I love. like if ah If I know it's an album that's just random songs kind of thrown together and there's no through line, I can tell and I don't like it as much. Maybe back in the day, now and now I'm too, i sometimes I get too into my head about music.
00:12:34
Speaker
It just happens. yeah And I want there to be more meaning to it than there is, but sometimes a song about being in love is just a song about being in love. And there's no other, there has to, there's no, there has to be no underlining theme. It's just, it is what it is. Right. So. Well, that's a, I mean, that's a hallmark of a good song. Like you're mentioning though, like if there's, if it's something that, it that engages with, with the, the listener of the audience and it's not necessarily what you intended as a songwriter, but there's enough there for five different people to take five different meanings from it. I mean, that's that's fantastic. That's artists, you know, is is is universal. and And, you know, having an open space to inject your own interpretation is really
00:13:19
Speaker
is really fantastic, yeah I think. It's definitely my favorite thing. Sometimes people love to ask me what the song is about, and I always ask, so what do you think the song is about? It's my favorite. Yeah, yeah exactly. ah It's interesting that you mentioned, so that first track, Shadow and Spotlight, is that's the first song I've ever written. I wrote that specifically for this album and specifically to be the opening track.
00:13:40
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. And I've never done that before. But I had the the final track on the album was I knew that was was going to be and it's that's kind of a departure for me. Yeah. And I was like, you know what, I i want this to i want I need a bookend. And I want to set up kind of a mood and a theme. So I'm I'm I can't tell you how thrilled I am that at least one person picked up on that without me. Hey, that first. Hey, well,
00:14:03
Speaker
you know you did your job right and you did it hey you did a damn well too. So you have now become my favorite guest ever. on the ah there way there's There's a reason why you asked me to be here. I knew there was a reason yes because yeah i'm I'm the best guest for podcast. Exactly. So now the secret is out. The whole reason for this podcast is repeat for me to talk about me.
00:14:24
Speaker
yeah No, i well i I like podcasts that are conversations. and Yeah, totally. like I know like you know you you reached out to me and said, hey, we're going to talk about your music. I said, I don't want to talk about me for an hour and a half. I want to talk you know i want it to be about both of us. Yeah. Well, let's let's let's at least let's do a little turnabout. Let's talk about you for a minute. OK, fine. Don't make me, fine.
00:14:46
Speaker
So let's just listen this morning to Magic Johnson, which I thought was fun. And that, to me, sounds like a love letter to Los Angeles. OK. That's what you think. To a degree, right? No? Yeah. That's what your interpretation is. No, yeah. It was written. I don't even remember when I wrote it very quickly. I remember it was like 10 minutes. And it was just kind of stuck in my head. And my favorite part about the song is that there is the There's the duality of the line, I say, I could never stay away. And then I say, stay away, stay away like 150 times. So it's like, wait, are you saying you can never go there? Or you should say, please don't come? like Right? Because the traffic is too bad. Stay away, people. was angel lovely but There's too many people here.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah. ah well And, you know, I do love Los Angeles and but I think that is, I didn't move here for glory. I didn't move here because, you know, apart I was, I, I want to, I moved here because I want to play music and this is the best place to play music live. There's so many opportunities. um But I think there's, there's a part deep down of every person who moves here that wants that glory, that wants the their name in lights that wants thousands of people, you know, singing their songs back to them and everything. So I think that song is ah my kind of like, I don't wanna say toxic glory seeking side, but it is, you know, I want it all and I want it now. it's It's very much like you think you want it and then you don't know what you want till you got it, right? So, um but that's that's one of my favorite songs to play live. Also,
00:16:33
Speaker
um It was very different. It wasn't very different when I made it as a demo. So how my process works with the band is I'll write the song, I'll make a demo and then I'll share the demos with them and then they will like suggest things to had. So this song was very much, I think that's like two minutes, 40 seconds. It used to be just two minutes straight flat.
00:16:54
Speaker
And one of my bassist now drummer, Sam, he suggested, hey, let's have this little slow kind of like part where it kind of builds up again into the like the last chorus. And I was like blown away. I was like, this makes the song so much better. like I liked it, but now I love it. yeah You mean so made a bridge.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. And that was you know something I didn't think about. I've written Bridges, but for this song, I was like, no, just straightforward punk and then just end it. But he said, no, let's let's like throw in some dynamics. And now it's one of my favorite parts of playing the song is yeah that. So this has been a new thing where I'm asking the band, hey, any suggestions? Let me know. Not that we'll do it, but but I you know want to know ah how we can make it better and also if you don't like it which is nice too because sometimes I don't know if I like it or not so I kind of share it with them and they're going to be honest and ah they have different perspectives on it too because they want to play it they want to have fun playing it they want it to like represent us and you know
00:17:55
Speaker
be good, yeah because it represents them too. So that was a long-winded description of Magic Johnson. I love the long-winded answer. That's great. It's perfect for a podcast.
00:18:49
Speaker
So you you're you're pretty much the primary writer. You're you're kind of bringing the lion's share, if not all of the songs to the to the band. And then you you build from there, as as you kind of mentioned. Yeah, that's that's exactly how it works. And that's I don't want to say that's how it will be forever, but it's how i've done it um but that's how I've written.
00:19:09
Speaker
uh things and songs and poems or whatever i've done since i'd like middle school yeah so um never had a band until i was in college and i put them together and i told them from the get-go hey i and i even these guys i met here and put together said i write everything we're gonna play the songs i want to play but obviously like where i want your input yeah that's just kind of how i'm wired and right um you know like we talked about maybe like co-writing stuff but sometimes i feel like It could be too scattered. You really need a partner. You need to find a group of guys. Some people do it really well. Some people do it not very well. But I want it to be cohesive. To me, a song tells a story. It tells an emotion. So if one guy is singing about how lovey he is and the other is heartbroken, it's like, wait, what is the song? Right.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yeah, co-writing is tough. Like, co-writing is a whole, I don't know if it's tough, it's but it's it's a completely different thing in my experience yeah than than just writing on your own. Like, my my thing that I talked about doing the morning pages, one of the things that I really love about that, or like, even you i at one point I was like you, like late night,
00:20:19
Speaker
guy like writing songs. But the through line for all that is I write the best when I'm alone and it's quiet and there's nothing around to distract me. I don't have to worry about like someone in the next room listening to me as I'm working out chords and lyrics and like judging every little thing that they hear, which is ridiculous. I live with people that love me and could care less. I get that. I've been there too. I mean, growing up I was like, my parents are going to hear me, whatever, I don't care. um But when I moved here, I shared a one bedroom apartment with my friends. And we're very good friends. I've known us since high school. But it was a weird, I would sometimes go to my car to write music because I
00:21:00
Speaker
was in the living room and he'd be in the bedroom or I'd be in the bedroom. And then I'm like, I just feel too self-conscious because sometimes he'd pop in and go, that's a really good song. Like I'm hearing you. Sorry. But like I'm, and now I'm like in my head about it. You know, it's like, I don't, I didn't need that, but thank you. But but then um when I write a song and he doesn't do that, I'm like, Oh, I guess it's not that good. You know, so it goes both ways, but yeah it's a little bit better now. It's nice when you have your own space, right? And you know, no one's like going to distract you. And like, you you know, you're in a house with people that love you, but they know like, hey, dad's in this room, he's probably working on music, I'll just like text him like, hey, come talk to me, or you know, they're not gonna interrupt you. Yeah. um You're a guitar guy? Is that you're only interested instrument? Are you? What do you what do you typically write on? um I write on my acoustic guitar. I used to write on the electric guitar, but now I write on the acoustic. um I don't know why I've kind of switched up. by you I think it's louder if I'm being honest. It's just louder. And I don't want to plug in my guitar every time. I don't want to be that obnoxious.
00:21:59
Speaker
um But i've I also write, two years ago, I broke my finger playing basketball. I bent it 45 degrees. Ooh, ouch. Yeah, not on purpose. i ah you know um Then I like popped it back in, and then it it was, i couldt I couldn't basically use these two fingers for like two months. So I wrote on the piano. And like i I can play piano okay. like I don't want to ever play in front of people, piano, because I'm not that good. But I can you know kind of stab at the key the keyboard and like get notes. and Um, and I like that I sometimes, do you ever feel like this? Like I've played guitar so much that sometimes it's not exciting because I kind of know what I want to, when I write a song now, I already know, okay, it's going to go G to D and then A minor and then E minor. And it's this now I go to the guitar. It's like, Oh, I already know what it sounds like.
00:22:47
Speaker
right So it's nice, I like to go to the piano sometimes, an instrument that i don't i been I know very basics, very you know just the core of like how to make a chord. And then I just like to play around, because I'm like learning. and But I also don't want it to become like the guitar, right where it's not exciting.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, it opens up something something new when you're kind of a little bit out of your comfort zone. Yeah. um I was listening to and um there's another great song but songwriting pa there there's a great songwriting podcast called... ah it's I don't know what it's called. um I totally just drew a blank. You're right. It is another song a great songwriting podcast because this is one and there's another one that you know. It's two guys from Liverpool. What the hell is it called?
00:23:35
Speaker
um that that out that out then i Play the music here while I look for the... way It's like nowhere in my list now. Paul and Ringo songwriting. It's kind of sounds like that. It's something to do with songwriting. I think so song... Oh, I just had it. Song... What the hell is it called? Soda soda Jerkers? That's not like... that's not like It's Soda Jerker on songwriting is what it's called.
00:24:01
Speaker
Alright, that was a long way to get around. Soda Jerker? Soda Jerker on songwriting. And it's these two guys from Liverpool and they've got, and they've I mean they've been doing it for, I don't know, five or six years. um Anyway, long way around to say one of their recent guests was Cheryl Crow.
00:24:16
Speaker
um and who Her main instrument is guitar and piano. And she was saying a lot of times she'll write on the bass because that doesn't box her into, you know like you're saying, you know the jangly guitar chords or write you know her piano thing that she typically does. So yeah, it it was an issue. I think, oh, that's a good thing. I have a bass. Maybe I should do that.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yeah. So what you're saying is we are Sheryl Crow. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah. No, I've done that before. Sometimes ah I'll, if I want very much like I'm, I don't know if you're like this too. Sometimes I hear a song and I basically just want to write a song just like it. So if there's a song that has like a great base intro and a baseline, I'm like, I want to write the next great base song with base for the base intro and all that. So I'll grab my base and I just start chugging along. And it's not as good, but it's close. Yeah, it's getting there. Right. So um I'll do that as well. Grab like a base. ah What else do I have? um I got a melodica for Christmas. Oh, for a melodica. And yeah that that was really fun. I like to throw it in some songs here and there.
00:25:20
Speaker
um And like, but riding on it, I can't like sing while I play it, but it's such a fun little thing. I don't have to, we have a piano downstairs in my house ah that I live here and in the valley. And I'll sometimes go down there, but it is like, like we were talking earlier, very public. It's like yeah in the middle of everything. So if I'm riding, I kind of want to just do it in my room. So sometimes I'll pull out my melodica and just play around on it. That melodica sound is pretty neat. It's mostly because I was obsessed with gorillas at the time, and I still am.
00:25:47
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Are you a fan of Gorillaz? Yeah, I do like the Gorillaz. Have you seen, have you probably seen this video where he talks about the Clint Eastwood song? Yeah. Or it's for anyone that hasn't seen it. It's really incredible. Like the entire song is basically he hits a button on this, you know, keyboard, and it's just kind of the pre-programmed thing. And all he does is basically raps over it. It's, it's, and it's wild. Yeah, it's really check that out.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was like some, I think it's like some Casio keyboard, oneo like one of the most basic ones. It sounds so like like a toy and when you hear it over the audio, but then you know you put it into like really good production equipment and then then it sounds really good, but yeah it really is just that beat, the boom, bump boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, the whole time. so yeah It's cool. He's probably one of my biggest inspirations, like songwriter, musician wise. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. I i hear a lot of, ah but there's some Weezer influence maybe in there. You're a Weezer fan at all? Huge Weezer fan. Yeah. Weezer head. Weezer head for life. Yeah. That comes across for sure. are youre going to go They're coming to that that new Intuit Dome in October. Yeah. The cheapest ticket right now is $2.80, so I don't know. I've seen them so many times, and I've never played remotely that much to see them. Yeah. and I know they're playing the Blue Album front to back, which I think
00:27:06
Speaker
if It's not my favorite record of all time, but I think it's the the perfect most perfect record of all time, yeah like front to back, for sure. There's not a bad song on that thing, for sure. Not a bad moment, not a bad second. It's just perfect like through and through. And so funny, I also have a ah spreadsheet of albums I listen to and I rate them and okay all that stuff. so yeah So that one's on there. and so that It's very top.
00:27:29
Speaker
Nice. I wish I could. I wish I could. But the thing is, i too many times I've seen Weezer and I've been in a mosh pit and I love just like rocking out to Weezer. But if I pay $280, I'm going to be in the nosebleeds and not be able to rock out. so Right. Gotcha.
00:27:45
Speaker
kind of like yeah i don't I don't love the big arena shows either. um That might be one I would make an exception for, but yeah I probably won't either. with you know Hollywood has not been good to me this year, so i'm probably not going to spend a bunch of money on it. It's been a while since I went to a stadium show. I did see Blink.
00:28:03
Speaker
when they were okay nice a few weeks ago, because tickets went down to like $40. It started at like $100 and slowly went down. I was like, this is ah awesome. Perfect. yeah And I was in the very last row at SoFi Stadium, the very last one, and I had a great time.
00:28:18
Speaker
yeah so you know like I guess you never know until you're there if you love the music, then it's good enough. I might see Green Day. They're going to be there next month. so yeah gotcha Green Day is another is another one that I can tell is is ah is a favorite of yours. yeah that You kind of wear that influence on your sleeve a little bit too. yeah ah not on Not on purpose, but it's yeah it's no matter what I do, um every time right yeah every time we play a show, someone comes up to me and says, hey, do you do you know you sound like a Green Day guy?
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah, every every show like without failing. All right, and they never say not in a bad way. Not in a bad way. why Why is there a bad way? Why? Why are you trying to say it like that? um No, I um they without yeah without Green Day, I wouldn't be in Los Angeles. I don't know if I played music. I was very much into basketball. I was a part of like Many teams went to state when I was in middle school. So I was going to be playing basketball. That was my thing. Interesting. I don't remember you. You're not a whole lot taller than me. Are you tall? How tall are you? I'm 5' 11", 6' 5". Yeah. I didn't end up getting taller, but I was a good height back then. I wasn't short. Right. I mean, not that you have to be tall to be a basketball player. For sure. Obviously, the stereotype. Yeah, and also it helps, to be honest. It helps if you're 6'7", and you're playing someone who's like 5'11", it helps. But yeah, before Green Day, I was learning guitar, I hated it. And yeah, and then I put it down, I was collecting dust, and then I heard Green Day. I was like, I kind of want to play these songs. And then I just picked it up, taught myself everything. And now I'm in Los Angeles on the best podcast, songwriting podcast in the world. So I think that song, Jerker,
00:30:04
Speaker
ah That's hilarious. um Talking about back to ah Weezer and Rivers, I don't know if you ever heard, listened to any of him talk about ah songwriting, but he's got this collection of notebooks that he's written. Do you know this story? i Well, I know the notebooks. I also know he has spreadsheets and he makes his own programs now to write songs. and Oh, wow. Yeah, he he went back to school and he got like a master's in computer science.
00:30:29
Speaker
That's crazy. I hadn't heard that. Yeah, so yeah, he so had he did the notebooks thing. He's kind of like, he's kind of like me. He just writes all the time, you know, little ideas here and there. But some of the notebooks thing remind me because I know that more of the more like, yeah, so the the story that I've heard him talk about is he's got notebooks full of just all the pop hits over I don't know how many decades that he's just basically kind of like chart it out and kind of dissect it and you know this is why this works and you know what he's just he's he very much as a student of popular music popular rock music and I mean obviously I think that shows I mean like we're talking about the blue album there's not a bad moment on that and he's got so many other just dude knows how to write a hook and how how to connect with people and and i you have to attribute a good amount of that to just being a student of
00:31:21
Speaker
you know, popular song. Yeah, ah you can't be a good artist without really putting in the time with the art. So it's it's kind of like, I know people, a lot of people say they want to be a writer. It's like, we can't be a great writer if you don't read, right, you know, and things like that. So it's like, oh, you you want to be a great songwriter? It's like, well, you can't write great songs if you don't listen to great songs. And things like that. At least that's my opinion. i mean yeah no i agree If you're out there and and you're writing the best songs ever because you don't listen to goods you know great songs, more power to yeah yeah but um you. know i just I love music too much to not do that. but
00:32:01
Speaker
um i So i I remember that notebook story, when you reminded me, but and what he does now is he has a spreadsheet and he puts he has a spreadsheet of like song titles, song themes, they're like cheer, and then he'll make a program and it'll just spit out something altogether and then he'll write a song. like It'll tell him like what genre to try it in and then like do a verse, chorus, verse, bridge. like it'll um like Basically, he programs a song and then writes around that. yeah and I think that's also fascinating. like That is fascinating. instead of using Instead of it writing the song for you, like you're using it as a tool. Yeah, right. like That's pretty cool. um Yeah, that's that's super cool.
00:32:44
Speaker
um i mean it's and but so i want i don't it's It sounds like AI, but it's not really if he's doing all the inputs to begin with and it's just kind of pumping him out. It's almost like a clone. It's a river's quat clone, yeah it's digitized into the computer. You make ah you know your programs enough and they start they learn what you you are and eventually it kind of becomes you. He's like Richard Pryor in Superman 3 gets like sucked into the computer. you know It's so funny. I've only seen the first two.
00:33:12
Speaker
Oh, okay. Well, there you go. you You do some remedial. Yeah, I'll have to go back and watch them. It's not the best. It's not the best one. It's ah it's very, it's very odd. But um I like the the fourth one. I know the villain just grows really long fingernails and scratches people. i don't I don't remember that one. Yeah, you should look watch it. That's, that's, that's the only thing I know about it. But yeah, sounds pretty good. Yeah, interesting. But yeah, definitely. Weezer, definitely Green Day are you know, big ones for me,
Musical Influences and Career Inspiration
00:33:42
Speaker
definitely. they They got me, they were like the first, Green Day was the first one that got me wanting to write my own songs, play music.
00:33:51
Speaker
you know, yeah for real. And then ah Weezer was one of the next ones because, you know, i after Green, I was like, I want more. yeah Give me a more. So Weezer came up, then Blink, some 41, all those like 2000s, 90s pop punk bands. But those are definitely the the bigger ones. Blink 182 is definitely up there. I just, I don't think I channel as much because I think I write stuff that's more mature than them. so Yes, i would I would agree with that. Yeah, definitely. You definitely have that pop punk, you know power pop punk energy. But but yeah it's it's yeah, like you said, I think it's a little more, a little more what's the word, cerebral maybe.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah. And not to say, I wish I could write a song like All the Small Things, but yeah I just, my i'm just my head's to too big for that. I'm just too smart for that. Exactly. It's a cross that you have to bear sometimes to be as brilliant as you and you and I both are. yeah Yeah. It's hard to be a genius out here. It really is. It really is.
00:34:53
Speaker
Nice. So what the the latest song that you released is what? Oh, tell me that you hate me. Where did that that came from your list? Probably, but it was on my list. Yeah, I have a list on my phone. I just saw these and what I remember, I wrote it at the beach. OK. And actually, I have my notebook here that I wrote it in. I might have some notes on there. Sometimes I like to write like who it's about or what it's about or something. Yeah. OK. No, no notes.
00:35:20
Speaker
um But it just says, tell me you hate me. And I already i have literally the chords. I have the B-A-D-E already there. I'm like, it's going to be that. And then I have the notes. Oh, I want it to be D-A-B-G and then D-A-G-A. I literally, it's exactly what it, I came home and I just did a little demo and it was exactly just that. So. That's awesome. I did rewrite some lyrics and I think I did a good job because some of them aren't that good.
00:36:31
Speaker
I think I was going through a breakup probably a couple of months after. I'm always going there. I was always going through something, you know? um Yeah. i So that's that's where this one came from. Yeah. And again, like I was probably going through a breakup, but I wrote it not thinking about it. But now I'm looking back at the lyrics. I'm like, yeah, maybe. Yeah. Maybe I was kind of going through something right now. It was seeping in there. I use my life as inspiration. So if you don't want to be used as inspiration, don't get close to me. Don't hurt me.
00:37:02
Speaker
Yeah, right. That's, you know, it's occupational hazard of being friends with a creative person is sometimes, sometimes you're going to be in the sphere of influence and that can be a good thing or that can be a bad thing. So treat me well. Yeah. So treat me. Yeah. Don't yeah be a good person. That's not that hard.
00:37:18
Speaker
Exactly. Treat treat me ah how does it to be treated like a genius. Yes, exactly. yeah exactly what What do you think is your fan favorite? what's what what When you're playing live, what what are the fans like the best? um There's two songs for sure. um Wasted, which is our biggest song on streaming. And it's so funny to look back like when I wrote that song and everything. um But that song and a song called House Party, those are Wasted, is good it's this those are songs that we have to play every show kind of type thing. okay um And you know I think therere people love them because they're simple. you know yeah And they're simple. They are catchy. they ah Everyone, I think, has had a feeling in that way what each song is about. And um Wasted especially, it's really funny. So I wrote that when I was 16.
00:38:14
Speaker
wow I wrote that when I was 16, sitting on the floor of my and my dad's apartment on like my bedroom floor. And I just wrote it in like 10 minutes and was like, I don't know what this is about, but I'm going to remember this. And it's just one of those songs, like you write thousands of songs and if a song sticks with you for like 10 plus years, that's probably a good song. yeah When I wrote it, it meant nothing to me. you know I was like, oh, I don't know who this is about, what it's about, what it's about me, someone else. I don't know.
00:38:38
Speaker
But now I look back and I was like, wow, I think it's about my my parents because ah they're no they're they're they're they got divorced. So like I think like it's about being wasted emotionally. yeah you know they um My dad, because of work, he was ah not home a lot.
00:38:56
Speaker
And I don't blame it all for that. I totally understand, you know, I appreciate what he did for us. And of course, appreciate my mom. But you know, it's hard on a relationship when you have that distance. So in the song, I'm basically the whole time is like, you know, one day I'll be back. Like one day it's going to be back. It's going to be fine. Like i'll I'll be back. Like I don't know to when. But I'll be there for good and then that is going to be fine. like I'm sorry that I'm doing this to us, but we'll get through it. And I was probably trying not to realize it was about that until I could fully you know grasp it.
00:40:17
Speaker
that's That's wasted. And it's a fun one that's kind of slower than our other ones. Also, our other stuff is very much upbeat and makes you want to move. This is very much kind of chugging along and yeah and tears you up inside when you think about the words. Yeah, exactly. It's got that emotional connection for sure. Yeah.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah, so I love it for that and I've always loved it, but now especially how much people love it. I also love playing it acoustically. yeah Sometimes we'll do an acoustic set or something and it just adds a totally different level to a song of that kind of raw. Yeah, for sure. so yeah I think the acoustic test too is, for me at least,
00:40:58
Speaker
if If a song works with just a vocal and an acoustic or just a vocal and a bare piano, like then it's it's a song that really works. Yeah. Independent of production that you're going to put on on a record. So that's, you know, a testament to to good songwriting to me.
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. I don't judge music on the production because sometimes some of my favorite records are like to have the worst production value because they're old or you know, they're cheap. And yeah it was never about it sounding good just about getting the point across. Yeah, like I love the replacements. I love old Green Day and some of that stuff sounds terrible. Oh, totally. It's terrible. But I love it.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, so I get stuck on production a lot too, though. Like I have, you know, I've got logic at home and I know just enough to how to how to do it. And I, I get a little blindery on like, oh, I got to make this sound slick and cool and and do this cool trick I learned from this other song. And and then i there's times where I have to step back and go, wait a minute.
00:41:54
Speaker
there's There's nothing emotional about the song, but it sounds good. So it's it's that's a struggle for me. It's finding the right balance. i do things Yeah, i I am right there with you. That's why I really like that I've been recording, the stuff I've been putting out, I've been recording with
Collaboration and Production Choices
00:42:10
Speaker
other people. So like the album I did with my friend Travis, ah I guess he produced it as bla I should say, because he did. Yeah.
00:42:18
Speaker
essentially and um and he would give me so many great ideas. that That album, if you listen to it, there's so many vocal harmonies throughout and that's all him. I'm not a harmonies guy. Now I am. yeah because he basically and I never really appreciated them as much before hu um just because I just didn't do them before.
00:42:37
Speaker
And um I love that, that input from someone else. And like, you know, he was the one also that was like, Hey, maybe you should throw a solo and waste it. Or, yeah um, Hey, maybe we should put some piano in the background here and, um, or I would have the idea and then he would, you know, kind of talk with me and we would, so it helps having a conversation without your, not just yourself. Cause it was just me. Like I, I'm the same as you. Like I, I don't have logic. I have, I don't know if you've heard of it, garage band.
00:43:07
Speaker
oh ah Pretty fancy, I know. The free software too, I don't pay for anything. And that's where I record my demos and it gets the job done. I can make stuff sound good. ah Fool, that EP you mentioned earlier, I did that all at home on my garage band and everything. yeah And you know I like it, but I feel like those songs have been better now because that was also kind of a pandemic EP. So they've become so much better now playing them live with
00:43:38
Speaker
with my band and they could've added more things. right absolutely You know what I mean? so yeah Yeah, that collaboration, that someone to to bounce stuff off is yeah is is a valuable thing. like i I didn't really have anybody for this last record and putting it out in the world now, i'm like um I kind of miss it. like there's There's some cringy parts on there to me still and I'm like, well you know it is what it is. But yeah, I'm ready to do the next one like already. It just came out and I'm like, i i like you, I'm like,
00:44:05
Speaker
I really want someone to produce it to to kind of just just to be able to have that step back and and and it lets you really kind of dig into what what's important to you as the artist in the song. And you know just just having that sounding board is is is super important, I think. Exactly. And um I think what's really important too is to get a producer. There's a lot of producers that are big and famous that I i don't like at all.
00:44:33
Speaker
um I don't want to name names, Jack Antonoff, um but he basically, what I hate is that he will work with an artist and then he will, instead of kind of making them sound better, he's telling them, hey, do it in the style I like. Instead of like, yeah I want a producer to be, it should be a collaboration, not yeah telling me what to do. It should be a conversation. yeah And I feel like,
00:44:59
Speaker
you know, there are these formulaic producers out there that will find something that works become popular. And then they will just do the same thing for they'll make artists that in the past have been very good with experimenting and trying new things. And then he'll just make them really bland because that's, that's what's worked for him. Right. So, um, so I think when you find your producer, you shouldn't work with Jack Anton.
00:45:26
Speaker
That's what I think. yeah I'm scratching him off the lip. I knew he was probably on there. He was top three, but not anymore. But yeah, just I've always thought it was- Stop calling me Jack Antonoff. Get off. I'm not interested. Yeah, he loved me so many voicemails. I don't want to work with you, man. so it's It's kind of at this point, it's kind of pathetic. Please stop calling me.
00:45:49
Speaker
um Anyway, so I really like the idea of producing kind of with like a friend, right? Someone that you, that has to be a little respect, obviously, like you respect what they've done. But it has to be somebody to that you, that pushes you in the right ways and not the wrong ways. And only you kind of know that too. Right. Right. That's the thing. Yeah. So I kind of, yeah. And now I think about it, like I kind of think like my band,
00:46:15
Speaker
when we do, because now we we record at my drummer's house. ah He has a little studio there, so they kind of, all our producers on it, now that I think about it, because they are basically while we're recording it, suggesting things and working on it, so.
00:46:31
Speaker
That's kind of cool. I just realized that. Yeah. It's fun. Nice. Self-discovery on Willsbox Songpod. How about that? Yeah. That's why this is the best songwriting podcast out there. Clearly, without question. And then your other one, House Party. So I'm a big Dawes fan. I don't know if you know this band Dawes. They're also from LA.
00:46:47
Speaker
So funny. I've heard the name, don't know. Yeah. They have maybe a few more listeners than than I do, whatever. Okay. um ah huge but Huge fan, but actually they just released a song called House Parties. They clearly heard um your song, House Parties, or House, no, yours is singular. and So they changed it a little bit. They turned it into... Oh, there's just multiple? Oh, that's fine. yeah That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. Okay, they're good. Yeah.
00:47:13
Speaker
um so how to how did How did House Party come about? Yeah. ah So I wrote that in college. and I remember we had ah had a house party oh and I was dating someone at the time and I remember I really wanted to write a song about how I just felt so, I was having so much fun and I was comfortable at a house party because I wasn't, I didn't feel like I had to be someone I wasn't. It was one of the first times I was very comfortable in a setting where in the past I might not have been.
00:47:50
Speaker
and and the songs it's not basically like word for word like what happened that night but it's about to me it's a happy song but it's so funny because people tell me it's not a happy song ah because the chorus is like ah I'm lost but you got the same look in your eye that I see when I look in the mirror I don't want to waste any more time and like what's sad about that you're lost but they're lost too and you're lost together like yeah you're scared and you're a lot you're scared together like that's beautiful but I think that's that's awesome so um I
00:48:23
Speaker
Wrote that, it was originally song ah called like, it was her name, her name song, then House Party, and I was like, I don't like that. I never really liked songs that are like, one of my favorite songs of all time, Annie's song by John Denver. huh It's a great song, but I don't love the fact that it's called the Annie's song. I decided to call it House Party, which isn't even in the lyrics.
00:48:44
Speaker
um Because I kind of like when songs are called yeah that without you know being that it just makes you think of a house party instead of like being in your face like we're at a house party. Gotcha. So the label is going to make you change the name of that. You got to have the title of the chorus. Chorus refrain has to be the title. You can't do it any other way.
00:49:03
Speaker
Okay, Columbia, stop calling me. I don't want to sign with you, okay? I'm going to find someone that respects my vision. um But that being said, Columbia, give me a call, and we can work something out. Maybe it'll keep be it could be called, ah I don't want to waste any more time, subtitle House Party. There you go. I can i can you know i can compromise. I'm a reasonable genius.
00:49:26
Speaker
A reasonable genius. That might that might be have to be the the title the subtitle of this yeah episode. Hey, I think that's a good one. But recently genius but yeah, that song is just really fun to play. It used to be like in the beginning of our set, but now it's our closer because everyone has a great time. It's just a good tempo to end the set on. so Nice. It's a fun one.
00:49:48
Speaker
um You and you've done a little bit of touring here in the past, what, year or so? Gone up the coast, is that right? Yeah. So we've done technically three tours. OK. We did one in 2022, a West Coast tour, just up to Washington.
00:50:05
Speaker
And then last year, last September, we went like a Southwest tour. So I'm from Texas, so I wanted to go to Texas and back. So we did, you know, California, then Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and then back.
00:50:20
Speaker
That was the longest one, that was two weeks. And then we did a very ah mini one in February of this year. ah we We played in and a show in l LA, then we played in San Francisco, and then ah Berkeley. yeah And the reason why we did that many mini tour is because so um As I've said before, I'm a big fan of Green Day. I'm a big fan of the East Bay punk scene, and they ah the venue that they always played at was an all-ages venue called 924 Gilman Street. And ever since I started playing music, I read so many books.
00:50:57
Speaker
about you know Green Day, Operation Ivy, Rancid, all these bands from that scene. And they always talk about how that venue was the most important part of their experience and in getting you know to play music. So it's that has been a dream of mine since I was like 12 years old to play there.
00:51:15
Speaker
And I finally was able to play there, but I i booked it a year and a half before the the gig because, wow yeah, because they, I don't know how you book shows. I just, I email people till I bother them and then they get back to me and then they'd finally book me. Yeah. Um, solid strategy. Yeah, it works. Yeah, totally. It's been working. Polite and persistent. it totally It's totally. Yeah. So that's, that's all stuff ah we booked on our own. I,
00:51:41
Speaker
made a spreadsheet what of all the... So are you an Excel guy? Are you a numbers guy? Are you Google Sheets? What's what's what's your spreadsheet flavor? So I usually, I've used Excel. Numbers can die. um And ah yeah, I'm just not a numbers guy. Gotcha. Yeah. Are you a numbers guy? I didn't mean to offend you if I... No, i'm i'm i do I don't do Excel ever.
00:52:07
Speaker
um i'm not michael I'm not a Microsoft guy. I'm ah i'm a full-on Apple bro. gotcha gotcha whenever i apologize i do I do use Google Sheets probably more than I use numbers. too Well, I was going to say so that spreadsheet a lot of the ones especially if I'm with for the band I use Google Sheets so they have have access to yeah too you know, it just makes more sense that way. um o That ah being said, yeah, so i I made a spreadsheet of, I look at a lot of flyers of bands that are yeah know similar to mine, like in the same kind of footing. And I basically just, when I'm on my phone, I take screenshots and I'll go and I'll add to the spreadsheet all the places they play. So now it's, it was started very small, but now it's huge.
00:52:49
Speaker
So I just eat whenever we know like what we want to where we want to play, ah what month we want to go on tour, you know start emailing like eight, six months before, um and just try to get dates booked down. And then if we're having trouble, what I've done is reach out to local bands.
00:53:08
Speaker
And what I've learned, there's one thing I learned about playing music, I don't know if this is your experience too, is that everyone that's in a band, anywhere else, wants you to succeed as well. yeah That's what I've, every band I've reached out to is like, oh, we actually have a gig, we could get you on, we'll try. Or they're like, oh, we don't have anything, but like, let me know if you're coming again.
00:53:31
Speaker
and same like they'll reach out to us and we're like, oh yeah, here's some venues. you know like i I've never reached out to a band and and they said, like i' we can't help you. yeah Never, that's never happened. Have you ever booked a tour? Long, long ago um when in Paging Raymond, my first band, my first two records were Paging Raymond and we had a little bit of college radio airplay um and kind of booked a tour around that, main mainly in Colorado.
00:53:59
Speaker
um for I don't know whatever reason. I i don't i don't know. But but yeah, we wanted a 10-day tour packed in. We didn't have a van. We were packed in my little two-door blazer and um you know pulled a U-Haul. It was fun and awful and amazing and terrible all at once.
00:54:20
Speaker
yep yeah Yeah. So, Dom, what do you got coming up? anything ah Anything new coming up that you want to talk about?
Upcoming Shows and Social Media Engagement
00:54:27
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for asking. I really appreciate that. um We totally did not set this up. at No setup whatsoever. Completely organic. um So, my band Ugly Side Up, just saying it again, I feel like I haven't said it in like 75 minutes, so I'm saying it again. um We have a show at The Mint, August 30th.
00:54:44
Speaker
I love that idea. With with ah our friends and Victory Point as well. They're a very good band. That's our first show we've done since July. I traveled a lot. So it's our first show in like almost like six weeks, which is crazy because I love playing music. ah We're also playing in September at Club TG, um like a Monday night, but it's a free show, really cool bands. And then also in October, we're playing Viper Room twice. We're playing ah Dirty Mondays, October 4th.
00:55:11
Speaker
ah which is a Friday. and it's it's um It's called Dirty Mondays, but they do stuff on Fridays now. So so I'm very excited about that show in particular because I've been a fan of what they've been doing for a while. They kind of showcase a lot of local talent, bring in bigger bands and, you know, kind of bring, they have a kind of built in crowd too. So it's it's very, very cool to see that we cannot become a part of that.
00:55:36
Speaker
um ah soon. And then also October 25th, we're gonna play Viper Room. It's gonna be a Halloween show. We do a Halloween show every year. fun And it's also my grandmother's birthday who passed away. So it's gonna be it's gonna be a ah ah good one. I'm gonna dress up as her for Halloween. It's gonna be great.
00:55:55
Speaker
But yeah, that's the shows we got coming up. If you need to look up any information about us, everything's on our Instagram. That's the best way to keep up with us. I keep that updated daily. And if you have any questions, you can just DM us and we'll get back to you. At Ugly Side Up? At Ugly Side Up. All right, great. Only one. Awesome. Well, yeah, like I said, Dom, it's been great. So much fun talking to you. This has been my favorite episode ever.
00:56:22
Speaker
I knew, I had a feeling. Yeah, I could tell. From one reasonable genius to another, thank you for having me on the podcast. I'm very excited to listen back to it and stroke my ego a little bit. Absolutely. And I look forward to listening to more of your stuff too. Yeah, thanks man. Can't wait to hear some new stuff too.
00:56:42
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Willsbach's SongPod. You've made it this far. Please rate, review, like, love, add, subscribe, do all the things on whatever app it is that you're hearing my voice. That lets the almighty algorithm know that interesting people like you like this show and will serve it up to other cool and interesting people. Willsbach's SongPod is produced by Willsbach Entertainment LLC. Mixed, mastered, and edited by me, Tim Willsbach. See you next time.