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David Brookings
28 Plays1 year ago
Grew up in Richmond Virginia and started playing guitar and writing music at 9 released his first album, ‘Sounds Off,’ in 2000. He moved to Memphis, TN. in the summer of 2001 and from 2003-2009 worked as a tour guide at the famous Sun Studio, where he gave a private tour of Sun to Steve Jobs in the spring of ’09. Jobs was so impressed with David that he hired him to come work for iTunes which took David to San Jose, CA., in the fall of 2009. After a move to LA in 2019 he’s still with Apple and still making his brand of playful, mostly upbeat power-pop music. An impressive NINE records worth including most recently the Shelby EP.
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Transcript
Introduction & Music Careers
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Willsbach's SongPod, a show where we dig deep into the songs and artists that move us and how we're moved to craft the songs we write. I'm Tim Willsbach, and I write, release, and perform music as Willsbach, and you can find me anywhere you stream music. Let's dig in. My guest today grew up in Richmond, Virginia, started playing guitar and writing music at age 9, released his first album Sounds Off in 2000, after which he moved to Memphis, Tennessee in the summer of 2001, and from 2003 to 2009 worked as a tour guide at the famous Sun Studio.
00:00:35
Speaker
where he one day gave a private tour to Steve Jobs in the spring of 09. Jobs was so impressed with David that he hired him to come with to work for iTunes, which took David to San Jose, California in the fall of 2009.
Musical Journey with Apple
00:00:49
Speaker
After a move to L.A. in 2019, he's still with Apple and still making his brand of playful, mostly upbeat power pop music. An impressive nine records worth, including most recently the Shelby EP. Welcome to Willsbach Songpod. David Brookings, how are you? Thanks, Will. How are you? My whole life just flashed before my eyes or my ears, I guess.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, I always ask um, did I get everything right because I just I basically just kind of do a yeah web dive and yeah Yeah, that's uh, that's pretty much what's what's happened musically. Excellent Uh nine albums is that's pretty impressive. That's pretty impressive. Well, I sometimes I feel like I wish there was more to show for it, but it's just It's just what I do. I i write songs. I put one out and then I wait a couple years and I put another one out and since 2000, that's just what it is. So I keep doing it. yeah I'm going to keep doing it till the end. Nice. Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, I'm i just about to release my my fifth record comes out next Friday. So i've ah it's been different bands for me. I had two with Paging Raymond, one with a man called Peele, and then this will be my second solo record as as my ah my fancy artist named Willsbach.
00:02:04
Speaker
So it's just good for the soul, you know, and yeah, for for sure. I mean, I go back and forth and you and I both have kids and and like like you mentioned, you know, there's there's not a whole lot to show for it at this point other than just, a you know, a body of work. And um but yeah, I can't like I can't I couldn't stop if I tried there. There was a period where I did stop for a little bit, but I'm like, I can't I just have to keep, you know, playing showing up and just strapping on the guitar and doing
Impact of Streaming & Industry Challenges
00:02:30
Speaker
the thing. Well, we say there's nothing to show for it, um but I think it's more than that, um but it's kind of in the cracks. you know like what What would we be or do without that? And it's ah it's an art form, but it's also like...
00:02:48
Speaker
You know, streaming, which I work in, so I'm a little biased, but there's people listening, you know, why are some people listening in Australia or Japan? That's always interesting to me, but to look at streaming numbers, it's, it's very, um, that's the good part, you know, just that people are listening. Yeah, definitely. It's it's nice. like When you and I both started, there was a lot more kind of gatekeeping. right You could press your own CD and get it recorded and that was that was attainable, but actually getting it onto you know the radio was not impossible, but certainly harder to get to a broader audience. So yeah, you're right. and In a way, you know we've having streaming is is definitely definitely nice. Those floodgates have
00:03:26
Speaker
blown wide open though, right? There's so much music now. I'm sure i'm sure you're you're probably, you know, you the amount that you get and have to sift through is just insane. And so much so much of it is good too. That's the other thing. It's like l LA. There's so much good and there's so much bad, you know. Yeah, right. so Exactly. So much of everything. Nice.
Songwriting Inspirations & Techniques
00:03:47
Speaker
So let me get to the central question that this podcast ah is basically trying to answer, which is how do you write a song? Well, it's different. ah I do a lot of I get a lot of ideas in the car. And so I'll sing things into um
00:04:04
Speaker
You know into an app into my phone other times. It's it's an idea I don't like to write the same stuff so a lot of times for me. I i think I get my Better songs from an idea that hasn't been gone over or explored a million times so um In other words something that's kind of unique. I like writing about things that are um That haven't been covered a lot or at least by me that I haven't yeah I can only do the boy-girl thing so many times. so and so I might take a character from a movie that's interesting to me and try to write from his point of view or her point of view or the other day I was in so much hell traffic this new song came called Coldwater Canyon and it's just about how it takes you know an hour and a half to go anywhere in LA but if you put a tune to it and you make it kind of catchy that's just kind of the world I'm trying to be in anyway then all of a sudden you have a song and so
00:05:03
Speaker
To your question, how how do I write a song? It's it's different in different ways. See, I chuckle a little bit when you mentioned Coldwater Cannon. I know exactly what you mean because we both live in about as far west as you can get and still be in Los Angeles. Right. but ah Doing that drive to Culver City. Yeah. Yeah. Is brutal. Brutal. And I go 101 to 405, so that's like the worst thing ever. It's the worst thing ever. The cold water canyon hits me if I'm going to Hollywood and then just, oh, it all just sucks. Yeah. Actually, it sucks so bad. I try not to think about it.
00:05:39
Speaker
But sometimes, you know, you get a song out of it, so it's all right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so sometimes it is what it is. It's nice to, you know, throw on a podcast or an audio book sometimes. It just kind of. Yeah, um I do miss that from because i've I've worked from home now basically since since the pandemic. And the one thing I miss is like the decompression, the 45 minute decompression that I would get after, you know, you have a ah day of cutting television and I would get in the car and 45 minute drive home. and throw on a podcast or an audiobook and it was yeah it was a nice just kind of like okay now I can re-enter my but the world and shake off the day it was kind of a nice thing yeah um so you mentioned um you're kind of just drawing from a lot of times from your experiences you have one song that um I think is so clever and so fun um and I forget the title of it but you can you can tell me about it but it's this oh yeah tough crowd
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, ah I had this gig where I play every ah every Wednesday for three years from four to seven in the Memphis airport. And as glamorous as it sounds, you know, people are there just to get a beer or get some food and then get on the plane. So I think they're a little bit, it's shocking that there's even a guitar player there in the corner. but it was fun and I would um you know you get tips and sell see this is back in the days when you when you sell CDs and um and tough crowd came from that and that's one of our more popular yeah and that's a good uh that's a good sing along so get the crowd in there so we still play tough crowd that's always fun the band does
00:07:21
Speaker
I was playing it the other day at a gig, and a woman full-on yawned. and you know yawning Yawning's contagious, so I almost started yawning right around the third verse, but mostly it goes over pretty well. That's a tough crowd when you're singing and there's silence. Nobody claps in your heart. You feel the violence when you play well and you know it. But the crowd doesn't show it Only one thing you can say, you should say it out loud That's a tough crowd You tell a joke to the room and it's funny Nobody laughs, but the joke was so funny
00:08:18
Speaker
It went exactly how you planned it, but they don't understand it. Only one thing you can say, you should say it out proud. That's a tough crowd. And then your most ah your most recent release it was ah is an EP, which has Shelby is is kind of is the featured song. The rest are demos, is that right? Yeah, the rest are demos that didn't make the last record, but I i think you should put your your music out. If it doesn't come out, then it doesn't exist, sort of, ah or at least that's what I think. If a tree falls in the woods, you know, did anybody see it kind of thing? It has to come out.
00:08:59
Speaker
those songs it just seemed like i had ah ah really i think a really good song i wanted to put out and then so kind of kind of coupled it with three other kind of unfinished things but then the the well it' shelby but then the last song on it is remember me which is a cover of ah the song from ah that the movie coco ah Disney Pixar movie oh yeah um My dad passed recently and that sort of, that one kind of reminds me of him. And then the Shelby song will most certainly wind up on the next record. But, um and I also just wanted to put something out. The last record hadn't come out since November 2021. So it was about that time. And Shelby is your third. So Shelby's your wife.
00:09:41
Speaker
I had we have two daughters together and they each had a song so I thought it was kind of time for Shelby has multiple songs um About her, but this is this one, you know straight out calling her You must know
00:10:23
Speaker
I remember when it came out, i i kind of I left a comment on your on your Facebook going, man, now i said Sam, I have several songs about my wife, but I've never actually specifically name checked her. son I'm like, now she's going to hear this. I'm probably going to have to write a specific Nancy song now. Delete Me is fun. I know that's just kind of you know a little little sketch, but um I like i like the the playfulness of that and kind of it's kind of ripe for the times. right ah Yeah, so and that thank you, but and that's an idea like I don't think it's common to write a song about how everybody on the left and the right hates each other and all this online social media stuff like well, if you don't think this and delete me so that's where that one came from but also the song doesn't I'm not gonna it doesn't you don't you still don't know anything about what I think I'm just saying right I
00:11:16
Speaker
You don't have the same shoes as me, delete me. You don't have the same dog as me, delete me. So there's a there's a ridiculousness a lot of times to to the stuff.
00:11:25
Speaker
that I write, but I think there's a lot of humor in music um that gets missed. And i I try to just straight out put it out there. Yeah, there's definitely definitely listening to your stuff. A lot of it has that very playful. um I don't want to say tongue in cheek, but maybe maybe that's maybe that's the way to describe it is. Yeah, I kind of struggle with ah not struggle, but I have serious songs and then I have. A tough like tough crowd is serious, but it's also funny. yeah um When you play well and you know it, but the crowd doesn't show it, you know that's a real thing. I i know ah my worth and and um musically and and i think you know i mean humbly. I think I'm good. I think our band is good and and we go out there and play. but
00:12:16
Speaker
I don't know if there's gonna be 75 people there 10 people there or or if we'll have a gig like opening for Brian Adams a few years ago that was amazing and have some great gig so you just never know but I Think I've reached the point where I'm rambling, but that's you know what it is Yeah, but now you like you mentioned, you do a good job of kind of straddling that line between you know the the serious the serious songs. you know You take a song like Hard Times, which is a beautiful song and a kind of a moment in time um and it evokes an emotion. But then you on the other hand, you've got a song like One of Us is Crazy.
00:12:52
Speaker
which is a super fun, you know, song too, but it's a different vibe then. But you you do a good job of kind of melding those those two. Thanks, man. Yeah, heart like Hard Times is dead serious, but it's also got the line about um feel the wind through the trees having helped you if you sneeze, because I ah wrote that like in the heart of COVID. How much more can I take? I've been trying not to break in the hard times.
00:13:22
Speaker
Help you if you sneeze in the hard times
00:13:46
Speaker
Sometimes I think like don't write anything. Don't write anything funny in this song. But I just that seems to happen a lot with my stuff. So especially lately. So maybe maybe I'll just write a real like sad bastard serious, serious record sometime. But um i I like to ah I like that stuff. To me, I feel like it's easiest to write the sad bastard songs. um But at the same time, like I don't want a record full of of those. Yeah, it's got to have a good. kiss Yeah. Yeah, because if you're a live performer, you are. as i two um i know You don't like to play those a lot of times. or not Not that you don't like to play them, but I i like i like an upbeat crowd. I like you know people dancing and getting up and shaking their thing. and And you play those sad bastard songs and people are just like,
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah.
Craft of Songwriting & Integration
00:14:37
Speaker
but And I think it's good. I try to be, you know, eclectic enough that it doesn't, you know, that you have an upbeat song, you have a rock out song, you have a ballad, you have all kinds of stuff. And the problem there is then you get like, ah like you were saying, power pop for me. And that's that's probably true. i I do a lot of, I'm in that world for sure. But that world, if you stay in power pop, um It's limiting and I don't want to just do one thing and if you put out nine records, it can't all be the same. It would, it would you know, it sucks. So you got to mix it up and so I try to do like I'm writing my life as I get older.
00:15:20
Speaker
You know, those early records, I was in my early twenties and you're writing about, um, you know, girlfriends and experiences like that. And then, and now I'm, I'm writing about subtly writing about my daughter and her boyfriend, you know, and slipping things in about that. So it's all, um, full circle and, and just keeps going on. Yeah, you have to evolve and, you know, and the songs get better. I'm, you know, I'm sure if you you're like me, like looking back, like there's one or two that I'm like, that was a good song. That's still a good song. And then there's a couple I'm like, um, you know, I could I might like to kind of work on that one a little more, but.
00:15:55
Speaker
Yeah, friends from so I'm from Richmond, Virginia, and I have friends that they they only know sounds off. So when I go back for a homecoming show or whatever, they're like, play Avery or play, ah you know, Party in the Sky, but I'm like... you know there's eight other records right but they don't so they only know you from that that moment in time and even shelby her she says her favorite albums sounds off and i'm like f are you talking about but um but that's a good thing too so i like playing the old songs
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, i mean so much of so much of music is is tied to you know memory, a place or a time, you know so it's easy to get stuck in that. like you know as As we get older too, I still try to seek out new music, but I'm still stuck on a lot of times the stuff that I really, really loved in the mid 2000s. I've got a Bob Schneider record that came out in 2004 that I still probably listen to once a week and you know a handful of those and that that still informs my songwriting but I still try to you know listen to the newer stuff and and incorporate that and you know try to keep it fresh. um So yeah, it's a lot to balance.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, there's studies out there that I think it says that people don't listen to new music after 35. And yeah I think there's some truth to that. I'm like you. I try to listen and and ah I want to hear new stuff. I don't want to stay where I am, you know, but we like what we like too. So yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh, do you remember the first song that you ever wrote? Yes, so I was about 10. It was called All I'll Ever Want. I did it at a talent show. Man, and I got up and played that thing and I can't describe. i can't I mean, I can try when you're, it still happens sometimes you're playing and it's almost like I'm just in space and I'm showing anybody in that room what I am. It's really hard to describe, but all I remember is dead silence other than me singing and playing that song. And at the end, what felt like absolute mania.
00:17:56
Speaker
But it wasn't. But in my mind, it was, which actually the last record mania at the talent show. That's what I wrote. That's what that's about. um But the the truth is it wasn't that at all. And I've seen it. My my uncle, you know, video recorded. it It wasn't mania at all. But it was kind of. and And it doesn't really matter what it was. It matters what it was to you and what that moment felt like to you. And I think that's really when I got the bug. And when you get the bug, when it really bites you, it's not leaving and it's it's still here. And i I know it is for you too. That's why we do it. That's why you keep writing. That's why you keep playing. The other thing I remember about that song is I showed it to my grandma's mom. So my great grandma, she was old as.
00:18:41
Speaker
She was old AF as they say. She said, you're too, you're too little to be writing stuff like that. And it was just crushing. So I should probably write, but yeah, the song was whatever CA minor FG, but I always definitely remember that's the first one. Yeah, nice. You mentioned you kind of try to, you know, spread it spread it around a little bit um stylistically, you know, genre wise. um And I in the intro, I called you power pop. but I mean, is that where where do you do you kind of categories yourself? Do you not like to do that? Like, what? When people ask what I do, I kind of say, you know, it's it's pop, alt, I guess, yeah rock. I mean, singer-songwriter, it falls into a lot of stuff. um Power Pop, I'd say for sure. the It's guitar-driven music for sure. A lot of harmonies. I try to write a song with a good hook. That's the other thing with all these lyrics can be as silly or sly as you want them to be, but
00:19:39
Speaker
If it doesn't have a good hook, then the song sucks to me. So I, the music has to fit the words and I try to do a lot of not only lyrical turns, but like good progressions and um, yeah, it's power pop, but I'm, I'm going into a couple of different directions because if you stay, I can't just write a raspberry's record. nine times, you know, so... Right. So you're really digging in and I mean, it's a craft for you. You're working on the chord progression and you're focusing on the melody and getting the lyric and the hook right. It's not just, you know, whatever comes out the first time. Hey, this is a song and I'm dealing with it. You're getting in there and kind of, you know, working with your hands a little. Well, sometimes I do. I mean, sometimes the song comes really easily. It's like, you know, you're fishing. Sometimes you're real one in and sometimes not. But and I'll do different things.
00:20:28
Speaker
What definitely does not work is forcing it. If I sit down to write and it's not there, then it's pretty obvious that it's not there. But a lot of times I get stuff just from screwing around, or I'll go through my old notebooks and um I'll think, you know, I really like the verse in this song. But the chorus sucks. And then this other song, I like the chorus, but I don't like the verse. And then this other song has a kind of an interesting bridge. You know, you can shift stuff around and then all of a sudden you have maybe two songs that were kind of okay and you put them together and you have a good song all of a sudden. So sometimes I think lyrically I'm i'm like too literal. You know, it can be nonsense and still be a good song. I mean, look at Nirvana. yeah It was a lot of stream of consciousness stuff, but all his his songs were awesome. So. I think about that a lot. I listen to a lot of Wilco and a lot of Jeff Tweedy and what he does a lot of times with lyrics and it's it's a lot of it is not and nonsense or just words that sound good, jumbled together and he's he's got a real knack for that. and I've tried that a couple of times. and
00:21:33
Speaker
it It always seems a little forced to me. I've i've snuck it in a few times here and there, but yeah, there's there's definitely an art to that. um and It has to sound good. And that's why the lyrics have to fit the music. um It can be a good song, but I think the great songs are where the lyrics and the music just fit perfectly. And that's that indefinable thing about songwriting that that everybody's looking for and searching for and trying to get. Yeah. And so there's two things to this whole
Evolving Goals & Sync Licensing
00:22:05
Speaker
music thing. One is like writing, writing good songs and, and putting out good product. And then the other part, which is the tough, far tougher part for me is getting people to hear it.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah. that Like on a mass scale. And as I've gotten older, this mass scale stuff is not near as important to me. Your mindset changes and what you're going after changes. You know, when you're 24 and single, it's different than when you're married with two kids and a wife and the pet sitting business. So we do all that stuff. And I'm just at this point, I'm really interested in in the sync licensing world, you know, and getting your songs. Placed and pitched for movies and TV and video games and whatever because there's a whole world out there of that stuff That's yeah, as you know, that's really interesting to me Have you found your songwriting shift a little to focus more towards songs that will work in that specific area? ah Or is is your writing process the same and you're just kind of targeting your output more Well, I think rather than I would have to get like some kind of steady thing in that world first but writing to order I
00:23:13
Speaker
is something that's interesting to me and that way it would totally shift if somebody was like, you know, write me a Beach Boys type song. um But what I do is on the last couple records, i've I'll have instrumental versions made too. yeah Because a lot of these sync places, they don't want work. Like Shelby, it wouldn't work for sync. Right. The movie would have to be about a girl named Shelby. It's not like the most common female name. But if you take that song and you take the lyrics out, now it's just ah now it's just music, then it can work for any number of things. Right. And as a TV editor, a lot of times all you want is these two lines. Yeah. And it could be the verse or the chorus, it doesn't matter. So having those mixed minuses are are huge.
00:23:55
Speaker
because me as the editor, I can, I can, you know, throw, I'll throw the instrumental in and when I want to hit the lyrics that are going to work for the scene, pop the lyric up and then duck back into the instrumental. So yeah, so that's key to get those mixed minuses as you're, although less, less important now that, cause AI can do it all. Like AI can just strip those lyrics right out. Yeah. Which is pretty, pretty amazing.
Role of AI & Hooks in Music
00:24:16
Speaker
Brave new world that we're living in. Yeah. AI is cool and, and terrifying and it's both, you know, Yes, i that perfectly sums it up. Super, super cool and also terrifying. Right. yeah even that Even the AI pictures of yourself, you know, I always say I'll, i'll you know, um I have to catch up to, you know, robot David Brookings because they, you know, the AI pictures of yourself,
00:24:44
Speaker
You know, they're like, they look amazing. They look better than than you look. You know, so you got it. You got to try to. It's hard to. It's hard to fight the robot, though. Yeah, for sure. The robots are writing songs now. There are no wrinkles in A.I. Yeah. No, it's in Will's big, which I like. let's say Every hair is right in place. it's Perfect. Yeah. Yes. Or I have hair, you know, you have hair. Right. Right. Of course. so Oh, you mentioned hooks a little earlier. So um that's that's big. That's prominent in your music. Anybody that listens will know that you're kind of you've you've got the hook styled in. So is that when you're sitting down to write a song, are you focused on a hook first? Are you kind of writing towards the chorus? Or how does how does that work for you?
00:25:26
Speaker
You want it to not feel predictable, but it also has to flow. So if it's too weird, it doesn't work. If we're we're just strictly talking chords and changes and progressions, but something has to be in there. That's like, oh, that's cool. That's a cool turn. It's from all the stuff I listened to and loved. Like I really I really I still study it when I listen to the Beatles or the Kinks or the Beach Boys or that that stuff. is so special musically that it's sort of... I wonder if it really even matters what they're singing about. The the music is so good. And I've heard a lot of people ask, you know, what's more important than the words or the music? ah Someone asked Dylan in an interview from 65 the other day, and those the girl said, is music as important as the words? And it was so Dylan, he was like,
00:26:24
Speaker
The music is just as important as the words. So that's kind of, I agree with that totally. It's just as important. And if it's boring, I'm out. Like when I'm listening to songs, I can't do that. I don't know. There's the certain artists out there. The words can be cool, but if it's just three chords, I'm personally not as into it. It has to do something that that um that moves a little bit. It has to go into some different realm for
Musical Structures & Influences
00:26:55
Speaker
a second. It's for a second. Even if that's adding. So I write a lot where I play a D or a D minor, but you throw something else in there. Whether that's putting a B flat in the bass or whether that's shift shifting something in there has to be a little different to to me, to to make it interesting.
00:27:14
Speaker
yeah yeah so you know get Delivering that unexpected turn, in like you said, it can just be just a second, just a little chord here that you didn't expect coming, a little turn of phrase or whatever. This keeps it kind of exciting. right it's not you know it just It keeps it fresh and new for the listener to kind of you know grab onto and keep going and and you know finish out the song. and Mood is so, so important. right It's like you mentioned, you know what's and yeah what's more important in music or the lyric? You know, it kind of, it's, it's almost the wrong question, right? It's like, well, it's, it all, it's all working together and you're trying to convey a mood and that's what really for the most part connects with, with people is if you're, if you're conveying that and they in the right way. I mean, obviously, that you know, they're right but behind me. The Beatles are everything to me and a lot of people kind of diss their early stuff, but they, they changed the game. And even like from me to you.
00:28:12
Speaker
You know, it's all... that at add and done But then when it goes to... aga arms long It comes out of nowhere. That's going... That song's in C and all of a sudden it goes to a G minor 7 and most people wouldn't do that. And so that makes you kind of perk up and be like, oh, that's cool. And so I love little stuff like that. There's ah there's kind of a conversation lately in in popular music where the bridge has kind of gone away to a degree. what are your I think I know, but what are your what's your opinion on on a bridge in a song?
00:28:46
Speaker
ah My opinion is that maybe i I should stop having a bridge in every song because I have one in almost every song. um Hard Times doesn't really have a bridge. It has two parts, but if you put a—let's say it only has two parts. If you put that second part in in a place that's not expected, it can serve as the bridge without being different chords if you if you schedule it right within the clock of a song. But yeah that sounds like nonsense too. But no, I know what I mean. I don't know if you i don't know if you know what I mean. that Yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, to to me, it does make sense to me. I've never actually done that. To me, when I'm writing, it's like i you know it's at the bridge goes after the second chorus and it has to be yeah you know different.
00:29:36
Speaker
a different course structure, but that's my like specific you know kind of kink that I'm stuck on. And as I grow as a songwriter, I need to find ways to you know either eliminate the bridge completely or do what you're saying. Like, okay, yeah, maybe let maybe just let's sync sequence this song. you know You were talking about earlier about how you can't really force a song you know yeah when you sit down and you go, I'm going to write a song
Songwriting Challenges & Creativity Games
00:29:59
Speaker
like this. And and i've done you know I've done that. I'm sure you've done that. And it just never works. Like I always want, I'm like, I keep telling myself, you need to write a song that starts with the chorus. You know, there's there's a handful of songs. Yeah. And they're so cool. And I have never been able to wrangle one like that. I don't know what it is, but um like I've sat down a few times. It just never works out for me. So.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, maybe we should both, maybe we should ah each write a song that starts with the bridge. I don't think I've ever done that. yeah ah My friend Ben, last week he was over. He showed me this this awesome tuning I've never done before. He tuned the high E string to a D. And he showed me this cool song he wrote like that. And then I showed him the way that I have a couple songs where I tune the E to a B, which gives it like this 12 string effect and makes it where like, if you play a C chord, it doubles the C. um But anyway, so we both had this, we did the songwriting challenge game. I was like, all right, I'm gonna write one where the E string is in D and you write one where the E string is in B and we'll give each other a week and we'll send it.
00:31:08
Speaker
I've done a handful of those songwriting type games. I love that so much. it it i i'm very I've always been very deadline driven. Yeah, yeah. So for me, like I know like, okay, if i if i don't if if the deadline is squishy or I'm just writing for whatever, I can like you know go round and round on a song and I work on it for six months. But if i I'm in a group of other people, And and there you know the topic comes out on Monday, and you have until next Monday to write the song. like I love that. like Some of the songs are going to turn out great. Some of them are going to turn out crap. Some of them are going to turn out somewhere in between. But at the end of it, I'm going to have a finished song. ah The record that I put out in 2019, Indianapolis, which, by the way, is the least Googleable name in the world for a record. And I don't recommend anyone make up a word that you can't Google. It's terrible. No one can find your record.
00:32:02
Speaker
Oh, anyway, that's an aside. Now I'm rambling. um No, anyway, we run into that with Apple Music with search stuff all the time. The harder something is to search, the harder it is to find. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But so I was in I i had started a group um like I don't know, 2014, 2015. And that was that was the thing. I just got a ah group of people together. And I heard of this thing from one of my favorite artists called Bob Schneider, who does he's kind of famous for this game. takes a word or a phrase, throws it out to his group of people, and you have a week to write the song. And if you don't write the song, then you're out of the group. um So I did that with a handful of my friends, and literally half of that record is songs that came from that
00:32:47
Speaker
contest game, whatever you call it that lasted, it ended up lasting about 14 weeks before everybody was kind of like, you know, life got in the way and basically everybody was out. But yeah, I love, I love something like that. But one more thing on the songwriting games, my friend Jason and I back in the day, we would have content. We were both in a band together.
Project: 209 Beatles Songs Journey
00:33:05
Speaker
I moved to Memphis with him from Virginia, but we would have these contests where You go in the room for 30 minutes, and we would come out. And this was back when it was all just drinking girls' guitar parties. Just, it was, you know, great times. But anyway, we'd come back out. He'd play his song. I'd play my song. And depending on the reaction we get, we'd be like, oh, this enters the charts at number 12. It's a big top 20 hit. And if the girls didn't like it, we'd be like, oh, it's...
00:33:35
Speaker
only number ninety two this week or whatever it was ah fun stupid thing but that's all good healthy stuff to be doing the songwriting challenges so Yeah, for sure. You at one point did, was it once a day? Was it once a week? All the Beatles songs on YouTube? Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I did. ah It was 209 Beatles songs in 209 days. So it was sort of a songwriting study coupled with me just trying to get them out of my system. So I would... Well, the first time I did it, I ate these... You guys have these... ah We hadn't been in California that long. This was when I was still in San Jose. And the... um
00:34:17
Speaker
The pot brownies out here are sensational. So I had one, and then this is how I came up with that idea. So what I did love me do, and I'm like totally glazed on that one. But anyway, I started doing it. It started getting hits and then um it was really fun. I'd pull Shelby in and she'd do some harmonies or um i'd I'd film them in different locations. If I had a gig that day, I would just do whatever song was on the was on the list. I did them chronologically and it took, yeah, 209 days. So it took, I did that in 2010, 2011.
00:34:53
Speaker
but my rule to myself was i had to post one a day so i might have to i might record three or four in one day gotcha i'd change shirts or whatever but that was my grandma died when i did that and i still had to You know, I'd recorded three or four songs early on in that thing and then posted them every day. I was thinking about what I haven't done or the three, ah Freeze a Bird, Real Love, and Now and Then. I was thinking about doing those three and then they did so many cool, I even did the covers that basically I put out, I did everything that they did on an album, except Revolution 9, that's impossible.
00:35:30
Speaker
Nice. um So yeah, I would imagine, you know you were probably already familiar with a lot of the a lot of the songs, but um what a great kind of you know education going through. Yeah, it was really cool. It ah kind of almost rhymes with you know what the Beatles did in their early days playing the Cavern Club, and you know they they played a lot of covers. and you know you you you you know you you put your voice and your then you're fingers through all the songs that are hits, you're going to you know youre inevitably going to take away some of that yeah you know some of that learning with you. Or similarly, like I don't know if you ever listened to Weezer or ah Rivers, what's his name? Rivers. Rivers Cuomo. Yeah, they're one of my favorites.
00:36:12
Speaker
um But he talks about, he's got um notebooks, stacks and stacks and notebooks, where all he's literally done is taken a hit song and kind of charted it out. He kind of takes notes and deconstructs it. And it's it's ah when you hear about that, it's like it's kind of no wonder that these guys write such amazing pop songs because they're such students of... yeah It sounds so unrock and roll to like be cerebral and like study music. But like but that's you know if you're if you're trying to write pop songs and you want people to sing along, which I do, and I feel like you do too, you do a good job of it, um you know that's kind of what you have to do. You have to kind of dig in. and
00:36:52
Speaker
and and and, you know, see what works. and It's the most rock and roll thing. Sorry about the dogs. It's the most rock and roll thing you can do is to study how the the ones, the greats did it. I love study, you know, to study that stuff. And then it's cool because my job, I have to do that too, you know, making playlists um for Apple, but it's just, there's so much we can learn about why why did that song suck? Why is that song good? Yeah. Why did that song give me goosebumps right there? And then the other part of it that's beautiful is sometimes you you can't explain it. And that's really neat, I think, with music.
New Projects & Album Insights
00:37:31
Speaker
um So what creative projects are you working on now? I'm in that phase of writing and ah of writing this next one. And, you know, like I'll get a handful of songs. Well, my favorite thing about putting a ah new record together is you let's say you've got eight songs. You start recording them, then others start to come.
00:37:51
Speaker
So you might write three new good songs and now they kick out the three worst songs you had from that original batch of eight. And then you come up with another two. I'm sure this happens with you too. Then you come up with another one you like and now that kicks out that worst one. But sometimes. a song that's not as good as one song, it like fits the tenor of the album better. yeah So I find that and then I love sequencing and I spend a lot of time thinking about should this be the opening? What's a good opening song for this album?
00:38:23
Speaker
Like on Mania, Hard Times was the last song I wrote on that. And at first I was gonna put it last, but I was like, no, this has to go first. First of all, it might be the best song on it. Um, and it's different and in the world now. It's different than the old records in the sixties and seventies. They might have the biggest hit might be second to last, you know? Well, we're almost back in a singles world right now, instead of an album focus. It's definitely a singles world too. yeah people Yeah. That's another thing where I did the EP, like no one no one has the bandwidth. I mean, there's not that many people listening to me in the first place, but if I get lucky enough to have somebody get to the ninth song, yeah it's pretty cool. So maybe I thought that too, like do I just start putting out four song EPs and releasing them more frequently?
00:39:10
Speaker
I don't know. i'm still Maybe it's just because the age that we're at, but i'm still I'm still an album guy. I want to dig in. I want to hear the whole thing. Me too. I'm just about to let you go. i want you I want to ask about one more specific song. One of Us Is Crazy. Tell me about that song. is that that's That's a fun one too. That's my top streaming song and it has like maybe 350,000 streams. Wow. which is still so um That's what I mean. like That's awesome. right but that's if a label saw that they'd be like this doesn't even have half a million streams right but it's all relative i'm proud that it's been played that many times yeah i know that's cool that song is it's about two different people
00:39:52
Speaker
who i'm close with and i can't say i've never really said who it's about but the idea of it came from um the movie black sheep with chris farley and uh and david spade and there's a part where david spade says to um to gary bucy let's call off operation one of us is crazy so i thought that was funny so here's the the humor coming in but one of us is crazy the other one is me is really cold, you know, that's but it's funny too. yeah So and i just that song came that song came very quickly and it's it is it's upbeat. It's fun. It has a cool key change in the end. I like to do that too. Sometimes I'll do a key change and a key change is interesting because you can go a whole step up. In that case, one of the crazies is a half step key change.
00:40:46
Speaker
So the song's in G, and then by the end of it, it's in G-sharp. But um it always gets a good good reaction, and I'm proud of that one. And that one I knew couldn't go... It wasn't gonna go first, but it can't go too far back on the album, so it's fourth, I think, on on the record. Yeah. Who knows if anybody's gonna get to that final track on the record, right other than, like, my parents and, you know, my wife.
Closing Remarks & Listener Engagement
00:41:41
Speaker
Cause there's something wrong with you, it's obvious to see. One of us is crazy, the other one is me.
00:41:56
Speaker
All I say about one of us is crazy, the other one is me, is that it's not about Shelby. All right, there you go. and Yeah, you had to let, this is not about you, honey, but it's, yeah. right Nice. But yeah, that's such a relatable lyric and the hook is great. um So yeah, I hope hope people will dig in and and listen to that song. And 350,000, that's amazing. So i've i've got I've got three singles released from the record that comes out next week. And the first two have broken through the thousand play mark. So it actually says now in Spotify how many plays I have. And that's huge for me. I'm thrilled with that.
00:42:31
Speaker
But that's huge. That means you exist on Spotify you know when when when you when you get over that thing where it's saying minus a thousand and now you know how many you have. And I only have like probably six or seven songs on Spotify. A lot more of my Plays their own Apple music than Spotify for whatever reason. I think it's really interesting to see how people heard your, heard your shit. Like analytics I look at every week. Why is some girl in Brazil listening to the song? I don't know. I wish I did know, but I also, it's cool that they're listening at all.
00:43:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. you know People are listening and digging it, and that's that's really not the only reason we do it, but it certainly helps. yeah you know i want to I want to play with the band. I want ah you know a full room. Even if it's a small room, I don't care. yeah you know just yes one show up and play. yeah um And speaking of, thank you so much for showing up and and having a conversation with me. It's always fun to talk with you and enjoy your music and ah and look look forward to what's coming ah down the pike for you next. Thank you, man. It's really, really fun to talk with you and good luck with the with the new pod. I'm honored to be to be on it with you. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, man.
00:43:43
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Wilsbox Songpod. You've made it this far. Please rate, review, like, love, add, subscribe to all the things on whatever app it is that you're hearing in my voice. That lets the almighty algorithm know that interesting people like you like this show and will serve it up to other cool and interesting people. Wilsbox Songpod is produced by Wilsbox Entertainment LLC. Mixed, mastered, and edited by me, Tim Wilsbox. See you next time.