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Mary Beth Abella
29 Plays1 year ago
My guest today is an award winning songwriter and recipient of the Lionel Richie Songwriting Scholarship and finalist in the Song of the Year, she was also named top a 10 artist by the Denver Daily News. She sang and played keyboard in a backup band on the show "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia," performed for a live Old Spice campaign, and has songs featured in shows like "Real World/Road Rules," among others. As a session singer, her voice can be heard on national commercials, the movie, "Hot Tub Time Machine Too," and multiple episodes of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia," and "The League."
An activist as well as musician, Abella created the first Women in Music organization in Colorado in the early 2000's, uniting and bringing visibility to the hardworking female artists in the area.
She currently performs live, hosts the weekly “Open Mic Revival” at the iconic Cinema Bar in Culver City, and When Girls Play at Oldfields in Culver City. In January of this year she released a single Beautiful Things, topping off her three album Discography 2012’s "In Another Life," 2007s "Nice Girl" and 2002s "What Happened to the Girls?" Available everywhere you stream.
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Transcript
Introduction to Willsbach's SongPod
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Willsbach's SongPod, a show where we dig deep into the songs and artists that move us and how we're moved to craft the songs we write. I'm Tim Willsbach and I write, release and perform music as Willsbach and you can find me anywhere you stream music. Let's dig in.
Meet Mary Beth Novella
00:00:17
Speaker
My guest today is an award-winning songwriter and recipient of the Lionel Richie Songwriting Scholarship, a finalist in the Song of the Year. She was also named Top 10 Artist by the Denver Daily News. She sang and played keyboard and a backup band on the show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, performed for a live Old Spice campaign, and has all has and has songs featured in shows like Real World, Road Rules, among others.
00:00:41
Speaker
As a session singer, her voice can be heard on national commercials, the movie Hot Tub Time Machine 2, and multiple episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and The League.
Mary Beth's Music and Activism
00:00:50
Speaker
An activist as well as a musician, she created the first women in music organization in Colorado in the early 2000s, uniting and bringing visibility to the hard-working female artists in the area. She currently performs live, hosts the weekly open mic revival at the iconic cinema bar in Culver City, as well as When Girls Play at Oldfields, also in Culver City. In January of this year, she released a single, Beautiful Things, topping off her three-album de ah discography, 2012's In Another Life, 2007's Nice Girl, and 2002's What Happened to the Girls. All those are available wherever you stream. Please welcome to Willsbox Songpod Mary Beth Novella.
Connections in Music and TV Industry
00:01:30
Speaker
How are ya? Hi, how's it going? It's going well. Thanks for coming on.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's your first your first female guest, right? Yes. Yeah. I've i've had ah conversations with a handful of other songwriter friends who are girls, but I just the scheduling hasn't ah worked out yet. So yeah. Yeah. Glad to glad to finally have you. Um, so I noticed that we have, uh, the tertiary ist of the, of connections. So I just, um, I'm a television editor by day when Hollywood is working actually. This is kind of why I launched this podcast because Hollywood is dead at the moment and I have not much to do during my days. So, um, but anyway, I, I ah cut the second season of it's a welcome to Rexham and a little bit on the third season and, uh,
00:02:18
Speaker
You know, obviously, Rob McElhenney from always explaining in Philadelphia. so what Where did that connection? How did you how did you end up ah doing that kind of thing? Yeah, I have a really good friend who was the music editor on that show. And um I helped him out a little bit on some, you know, some coordinating, basically, you know, um putting the music, ah registering it through the, you know, ASCAP and BMI and stuff like that from the show. So making cue sheets and stuff.
00:02:54
Speaker
And then um he called me and my ex at the time and said, we have an episode. and And now it's like it feels like I can't I can't be proud of this, but we have an episode with P Diddy on the show where he's going to play bass. yeah And ah we need some people to be his backup band. Do you want to do you want to do it? And I was like, Hell yeah. So yeah, we got to be on the show. It was just, you know I don't know, like 30 seconds to a minute or something. But yeah, you can see me on the episode with um Charlie's mom gets cancer, I think it is. right What it's called. Yeah. So it was really fun. It was really fun. Oh, that's ah such a fun show. I watched that for several seasons. I kind of fell off at at a certain point, and um but every now and then we'll throw it on it, you know, at 11 Wimmer and we'll basically fall asleep to it because I can't keep my eyes open. Once I turn something on, I'm like, um out I'm out. I don't even know why I tried.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of those good staples, right? There's like so many episodes to watch, yeah exactly and it's a funny it's a really funny show. Yeah, I'm from Philly originally, so I was like, oh yeah, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. That's really cool. Yeah, absolutely. Even though it's not always sunny in Philadelphia, right? Right, yes. So there's ah a Denver connection
Mary Beth's Journey in Denver
00:04:20
Speaker
too. So you're from you grew up in Philly and then you spent some time in Denver, it sounds like. Yeah, I spent a long time in Denver. i but a lot I was there a lot longer than I wanted to be. So I really i really tried to make it into a really fun you know thing for myself. and i I actually learned a lot there because that's when I really started performing and playing a lot. and um
00:04:49
Speaker
doing a lot of organizing. I've always been sort of, ah you know, real social justice oriented kind of person who wanted to save the world. So I started doing a lot of things in college and protesting and stuff. And then working in the music industry there with mostly just live performances, I noticed that um there were so many there were so many women that weren't really, I guess, getting the attention they deserved or knowledge, you know especially when you're starting out and you kind of rely on a lot of the
00:05:26
Speaker
the men in the scene for information equipment you know just it's for players you know everything so um it was an attempt to kind of educate us more on things that we need to know when we're playing music live.
Activism's Influence on Songwriting
00:05:41
Speaker
Have you brought that activism to your songwriting at all? I think it was there early on, like when I first started writing and recording. And then as I've gone, I was thinking about how, you know, as I was watching like your other podcasts with people I know, you know, like David Brookings and Giovanni Blanco.
00:06:02
Speaker
and thinking about how they were talking about how they write or what inspired them and I was thinking about how um how now like I feel like I write songs for revenge more than for activism okay not really but my brother has a saying that like ah watch out Mary Beth's gonna write a song about you so I feel like I feel like It's not, it's much more, but I mean, it was always personal experience, but I think there was that definite sort of angry element early. Like that kind of tracks for, but ah you know, I'm assuming that you kind of started in your twenties, early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're kind of figuring it out. in his Early twenties. Yeah. And a raging against the the machine and the norms and all that and wondering why the yeah fuck we're not on the radio. Come on.
00:06:54
Speaker
or other things. why are Why are there no fucking girls organizing things? What the hell? yeah so you know that's and so That's an easy emotion to access. and yeah yeah it's When you're when you yeah kind of first honing your craft, that's a good way to... yeah Yeah. and And I think I was, yeah, I mean, when I was um in college, we were really, you know, seeing and learning about a lot of things in the world. And I was a women's studies major. And we were learning about, you know, a lot of violence against women and just the conditions of women across the world. And it was just it just kind of made me angry, you know, made me want to
00:07:33
Speaker
made me want to burn things to the ground. you know And I have definitely, since I've gotten older, kind of really softened a lot. And I still do a lot of activism. And I still am really you know trying to create community here in l LA. you know You mentioned the open micro revival on the When Girls Play Women's Showcase. But it's more sort of like, let's get together and have community versus let's go burn things down. Right. Your sound, just listening to that, you would think maybe you know you're strapping on a guitar and you're getting really loud and angry, but um you're right you're kind of in the you know you you know alternative pop rock kind of kind of vibe, triple A radio, that kind of thing. all Right. It's it's i'm like listening through your discography, it sounds great, that new single, beautiful thing sounds amazing. Thank you. And that's your most rigged recent single, yeah?
00:08:25
Speaker
It was a song I recorded a while ago, wrote and recorded a while ago. And I just have a lot of these songs that I recorded with different people that I just never released. And that was one that I have listened to a lot. And I was like, this is a good song. like why don't i And I play it all the time live. So why don't I release it? So basically, I just was like, there's no reason not to. Let me just do it. Yeah, it's got a really great, you know, the the mood for like when listening is a little nostalgic, a little hopeful. It's kind of got that 90s feel. its which is yeah Anybody that knows my music, that's right in my wheelhouse. i'm like yeah I feel like maybe you and I are still kind of pining for those.
00:09:05
Speaker
yeah
00:09:08
Speaker
older melodic. that music that Yeah, melodic. There you go. There you go. And I can see that. I know you've you've had a bunch of placements. I can completely hear that. If they still made rom coms, that would be a great spot for it. you know But I guess maybe they're we're coming back with them every and every now and then. But I can definitely see this in it in an indie movie. Don't forget how to fly. Don't forget we have wings Don't forget who we are Don't forget all the beautiful things All the beautiful things All the beautiful things All the beautiful things
00:10:02
Speaker
So there was a big, big break. So 2012 was your last, your last full length before this came out. So that's a big, that's a big gap. Yes.
Personal Experiences in Music
00:10:11
Speaker
I went through, I went through a really bad breakup. um So we, so beautiful things is one of the things. So I went through a really bad breakup in 2017, but it was like, it was sort of we were recording other other songs to be released and like um like beautiful things and some other ones that I was writing and recording a ton and even have been writing and recording songs that I have been kind of going back on. I've done three recordings of one song that I was ready to release and just
00:10:53
Speaker
have not been happy with it. And I think because of the breakup and then COVID, yeah it's just been really just tough just trying to get the sort of the um the gumption to get back out there, release music, you know, do all the things that I was doing, you know, on a pretty good sort of, you know, running ahead kind of basis um until COVID happened. Yeah. Gotcha. So do you have a batch of songs that you're working on towards a new record? I would imagine you've kept writing that whole time. You're just not what you're still about. Yeah. Well, I mean, to be honest, I'm a very emotional person. And I go through waves of sort of like despair in my songwriting and like you know, beautiful things and sort of my upbeat songs are almost attempts to cheer myself up. Yeah. And, you know, be more hopeful and happy. And sometimes I am for sure. But I think that
00:12:01
Speaker
It was a real battle to start writing after my breakup in 2017. And then um i so i was sort of every time I picked up my guitar, I would just start crying. So I would write songs but not finish them or not record them. or whatever until a friend told me, you know, you have to keep writing through the tears and people need to hear that stuff too. yeah So even though I was like, not another breakup album, that was my, that was one of my other albums.
00:12:37
Speaker
and So just like sort of not trying not to judge it is the only way that I can write, you know, because if I'm sort of like thinking like, oh, people don't want to hear this like weepy stuff, you know, um that will keep me from it. And it did keep me from it for a long time where I would just like try and just get so overwhelmed that I would put it down. And so I really had to push through that and then start writing again and recording again. But I haven't been doing it with the same consistency as I did before, that's for sure. Yeah, I've run into the same kind of thing that you mentioned, where
00:13:16
Speaker
the the editor takes over in my brain before the creative person can get it on the page or record the first take into you know logic or voice notes or whatever. a And yeah, i have you have have to fight through that a lot. Like just, no, just get it out. Let it suck. If it's gonna suck, that's fine. you know Get it out there. you might There's gonna be some shiny nuggets here and you're gonna shake the pan and the dirt's gonna fall away and you pick out those shiny nuggets and you stitch them together and you build from there. But it's hard. It's hard to work through that. And same kind of thing, like you know finding those the upbeat songs. it's It's easier to me to write the sad bastard songs, right? Because that's you it's an easy easier accessible emotion emotion sometimes, at least for a person like me. So yeah, I'm i'm with you. it's You know you yeah have to kind of convince yourself to write those songs sometimes. so
00:14:07
Speaker
I think all of it. I mean, I think that you're right. Like there's this like critic, you know, we probably all probably all have that like. And when you've written a lot of songs or released, you know, some stuff, you're like, oh, am I ever going to write a song that good again? And you know, yeah, sure. Is there another one in there or do you have anything left to say? Right. That's another. That's another fear. Or i'll hear ah I'll hear an amazing song, and I'm a big fan of Dawes or Jason Isbell, and I'll hear a song that they've written. And I'm like, that's the most simple emotion, and I completely relate to that. And I can never write that simple of a lyric. And I'm not sure. I think I'm done. I'm not i'm done writing songs. you know It's been a good run. See you. See, I'm going to find something else. And may I take up golf a little more or something? I don't know.
00:14:54
Speaker
Well, there's no one with a voice like yours, right? Like everyone has such a unique perspective on everything. And I i think even if we're writing about the same things, we have such a different take on it. And, yeah you know, I'm not even... I think I would be a lot more popular if I was able to you know write songs about the universal human experience, right? But yeah I really focus on what is true for me and really honest. And as you can tell by even the way that I'm talking, I'm extremely vulnerable and honest and say things even in my songs that I could never say.
00:15:35
Speaker
you know to another person or out loud. you know It has to be in a song. And that's what makes every song really unique you know when you put your heart into it. Absolutely. And I feel like that's really the stuff that, that ultimately connects with the audience too, and why people listen to your song, you know, for a second and a third and a fourth time, save it and share it with their friends and all that. If there's, yeah, if they, people have a really good, I think, bullshit detector, right? Like, you know, if it's contrived, they know if it's real. And if they get a whiff of that, I don't mean like, don't really love this. I'm not looking for the saccharine stuff from you. I want it from the pop stars that are 17 and 18. They do that thing really well. I listen to you for a whole other reason, and it's not to be that person. Yes, exactly. I don't know if you're like me. Do you find that you have to convince yourself of that sometimes, that your voice is
00:16:38
Speaker
yeah unique enough to well what i question more is is it too unique you know um can enough people relate and then i have to fight back on that because that's that's a question not even worth asking It's not even, I mean, it doesn't matter what the answer is because when you do it, you just have to do it. You know, there's no, like, you can't get in your own way because it makes you so unhappy to not do it that why fight it? Just do it. And who cares? Like, who cares who loves it or who doesn't love it? It's, you know, that's not why we do it anyway. If you do it because you want people to
00:17:23
Speaker
like something. My brother says the definition the definition of a hack is somebody who whosa questions themselves. So I think i think that that's true because you can't be you can't be authentic, you know, if you're questioning yourself or or wondering if you should change this because more people will like it. You know, I mean, that's great. You know, I've written songs sound likes for film and television, too. um And that's great to try to capture what the person wants for a particular scene. But I think when you're, you know, as a as a songwriter, releasing something right like you have to believe it. And even those people that.
00:18:04
Speaker
are doing a lot of pop music that's very formulaic. Like they really believe it. That's what they believe in. They're not like trying to do something, you know, that everybody will love. It's like they're, they're into it. It goes back to yeah just be authentic, and that's that's yeah that's what connects. Hopefully. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's yeah hopefully. is always there's That's always there. Please, someone like that.
Songwriting Process and Emotions
00:18:28
Speaker
So listening through to your your stuff, I was struck by you are really kind of a master at really kind of capturing a mood.
00:18:36
Speaker
Just ah thanks. um I don't feel like I have quite the mastery of creating the mood that that you do. So is that something when you sit down to write a song? Do you have that in mind or is that just kind of come out? Like how do you approach? what what' What's your what's your so what's your way in? How do you start writing a song? Um, usually I just pick up my guitar and I think the reason why I'm still not an amazing guitar player after all these years is because I just start writing and I can't really practice.
00:19:12
Speaker
So I just start fooling around with chords that I like or melodies that I like and then I'll just start writing. But I really, I don't really think about mood and stuff. I think more about just Following where my head is at where my heart is at in the moment. um Sometimes I have ideas like I'm driving around or you know how you drive around and record voice memos or like me I'll wake up in the middle of the night with an idea or early in the morning or something and I'm reaching for my phone and I'm all groggy trying to sing something.
00:19:47
Speaker
But sometimes I'll get ideas like different themes, but I mean when I say like revenge songwriting I'm not lying in a way because I think a lot about a lot of experiences that I have like That's still that they won't leave me and I need to get them out Yeah, and so when I sit down like a lot of that stuff is on my mind or I'll think about You know, I need to write a song about that fucker. yeah just say You know, like either their perspective or my perspective. And I think that ah maybe the mood you're sensing is like a lot of pain. Like I've been through a lot of pain is is what I got to say. like It's like.
00:20:29
Speaker
It's like, you know, deep. And then I just kind of just throw it on the wall, you know, like, look at it, look at it, you know, or, you know, or times of joy. Like I've also, you know, experienced a lot of joy and I want to capture that, you know, or I want to capture hope or I just, it's not, but I'm not like thinking that way. I'm just thinking of like a moment in time or it's usually, a moment where I'm feeling something. And I just wanna express sort of, God, what happened? you know yeah What happened to make me feel that way, ah either good or bad? Okay, and then and then so you have kind of that raw material and then you're you're crafting that into, you know, because you're also yeah so very good at writing a hook. So, I mean, you know, you've got... Oh, that's so great to hear. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there's there's definitely craft in that. I mean, that's and and that's not just coming out, like you've got to kind of, you know, massage that and work that into...
00:21:34
Speaker
into something you know that people want to sing along with. I think that's awesome because I like hooky songs and I like to write hooky songs and I just am influenced by a lot of hooky music so I think I write that way. A lot of music now, like I host a lot of um songwriters, young songwriters at this when girls play, they're amazing. They're all so amazing. Their melodies are so different from mine. They're way more sort of, well, they're very creative, very meandering, very, like, lovely and soulful. And just, I don't write that way. Like I write like, I guess it's kind of like straightforward, you know, like, like,
00:22:25
Speaker
you know, this is this is the hook, this is the thing, this is that this is that this is like the centerpiece, you know? And then the other stuff is kind of leading up to it or, you know, whatever. But I i also admire that other way. You know, i I played with a musicologist when I was in Denver. She was getting her PhD. And she was talking about how men and women or there's like a female style of writing, a feminine style of writing and a masculine style of writing. And it's actually not gender specific, but more like masculine and feminine. And she said that sort of may i like a masculine style of writing is more is more hooky, is more like the Beatles. It's very melodically straightforward.
00:23:10
Speaker
and that like a feminine style writing is more circular, meandering, like not as straightforward. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that is interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And she said there's a lot of women that write in that style, that masculine, straight ahead style. and then And then there's a lot of men who write in that sort of not so you know sort of circular kind of style. And ah so I think that's really interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah. So I guess I write like a man. I don't know.
00:23:45
Speaker
That's really interesting. So you mentioned listening to the you know a lot of the players at yeah at the open stages that you that you host. yeah And I'm sure you've heard some amazing people. yeah And I'm sure you've heard some not amazing people. But through all of it, I wonder if what kind what that's done for your songwriting. are you is that kind of Is it almost a study for you at a certain point? Or you know do you see common mistakes that people make that that you can learn from? Or do you see stuff that works a lot that you pull from? or Or you're just kind of Oh, interesting. I don't think I ever like think about common mistakes except for one thing I've noticed is that people like to sing the chorus a lot at the end.
00:24:24
Speaker
yeah Which I do too, which I do too. So that kind of strikes me and I kind of laugh about that, but like maybe that was too many courses at then, I don't know. Probably guilty of that.
Creativity of Young Artists
00:24:40
Speaker
But I think I have mostly, I think I just appreciate And I know that I can't do, like there's certain things that it's not me. There's so many women at this, um when girls play a showcase that I do, and it's it's curated. We choose three artists a week to do it. um First of all, I've discovered that there are so many talented
00:25:05
Speaker
women artists in LA. It's insane. yeah um And they're very young and just brilliant, you know some really brilliant songwriters and performers and instrumentalists. And I think that mostly it just gives me an appreciation because I i don't think that I sort of listen to it and I'm like, wow, that's so cool. That's so amazing. But I can't write like that. That's not that's not the way that I write. you know So um it's mostly just like really appreciating how different styles people have and what people do when they write.
00:25:48
Speaker
That's the the other thing to me that ah social media has done to a degree is it's just open up this world and you get to peek in and see all the people across the country and the world and how much just really good to great songwriting and artists there are. and and yeah yeah that That can also be a little daunting. It's like, what yeah am I doing? There's yeah there so much that's good. I mean, you come on across some crap too, but a lot of it is ah lot of it is really good. yeah um so yeah that That can be another reason where I'm like, howh to the guitar is going to stay on the wall today.
00:26:24
Speaker
Right, right. I mean, you have to say, like, first of all, we can never compare ourselves, right? Like, that's the worst thing. That's the worst thing you can do for someone as sensitive as most of us are. I tell my myself that all the time, but it never, it never works. I could write it on a plaque and it would, it would not it's never, it's have not sunk in yet, I should say. Right, tattoo it on your forehead, tattoo it on your hand. Yeah. A few years. So I did the you mentioned I did the Lionel Richie songwriting scholarship. That was a UCLA extension. I had no idea that I was going to win. And of course, like all myself doubt when it happened, I was like, maybe I was the only one who submitted. That's why I won. You know, like that was my thinking. Maybe I was the only entry that year. But
00:27:06
Speaker
I had a great, you know i had i had I took songwriting classes there. um I called this one teacher after my breakup because I was like, I gotta reinvent myself. I gotta do something totally new and different. Oh my God. like i was just I was just struggling so much because like musically, I cannot separate my music from whatever's going on in my life. like I just can't like, okay, I'm going to put aside this like major crisis and like sit down and write some music. You know what I mean? It's like, it's all so connected. And I, you know, here I was like, I have to start fresh as a new person. That means I have to start fresh as a musician, you know?
00:27:51
Speaker
So I called him up and I said, I need to write, I need to write like, you know, whatever's going on right now, I need to be as inspired and as current and as, you know, hip and everything. And he said, Mary Beth, you can only be yourself. And the people that are doing it, just like you were saying earlier, like the people that are doing it, they're really great at that. you need to just do what you do and not worry about anybody else. Like you just need to be yourself and just do that. yeah You know, cause you can't be anybody else and they can't be you. And it's not going to work. You trying to be like them. And I was like, bummer, but okay. You're not helping me. You know, it's just, it's just like,
00:28:41
Speaker
totally embracing who you are, even if you're like, ah, only five people like it. Oh, well, that's five people. That's cool. You know, versus like we all want like millions and millions of people to love us, love our music and share it with the world. I wouldn't hate that. Sure. ri right But I got to just you know dig in even more into what I'm doing in order to feel like I'm doing something. There's no other option you know than to just dig in 100% to what you're doing yeah and and be even more yourself, you know not like anybody else.
Authenticity in Music
00:29:24
Speaker
yeah But even be more yourself, and more you, and more unique. and you know like that That's what's needed in the world. not like all this There's so much music that just sounds exactly alike. There's so many singers who sound exactly alike, who have like no real
00:29:42
Speaker
soul in their voice, you know, like there's no identity. Yeah, there's I mean, they're really good. They're technically amazing. They've got, you know, amazing voices, beautiful voices, beautiful voices. But there's no that quality of like, right, real emotion. Like, have you? ever experienced anything in your life? Where's the blues? Where's the heart in your voice? yeah you know Have you suffered? I want to hear your pain now. Yes.
00:30:18
Speaker
yeah i don't that color, you know, that color, that tone. Yeah. And I mean, and that's the fuel. But again, you know, you need you need the craft and you need, yeah you know, what what you have done and I've done and other folks have done and learned how to take take that those experiences, those real life experiences and craft those into lyrics and put it with the right melody and the right set of chords and eventually the right production that's going to convey that emotion in the right way. And there, you know, there's ah there's certainly a trick to that. It's not easy to do.
00:30:49
Speaker
You know as much as you even ah even like we're talking about the simple pop songs like even those Mm-hmm, you know, ah us yeah writing a pop. There's 40 people. There's 40 people writing those song right even a song that that gets you know, 50 million You know spins on Spotify in six months yeah It might sound like the simplest thing you've ever heard in your life, but it's not easy to write that simply and convey. It's a very targeted you know message that connects with 50 million people in six months or whatever it is. right and It's really easy to say, but hard hard to do. It's 40 over white guys writing writing the writing one song together. so I think most of them are Swedish. Is that what it is?
00:31:38
Speaker
yeah
00:31:41
Speaker
yes yeah um So listening through to your, um I listened to from an, ah what's what's it called? From In Another from in in another Life? Yeah. um I was listening through to that one and I kind of, I i enjoyed what I was listening to, but mo I really kind of perked up when I got to If Anything. um if anyway if I'm sorry, if anyone, if anyone. If anyone, yeah. Right? Is that the right title? that um if If anyone, yeah. um I was like, wait a second, do I have a song called? I misread the note that I had written. but um I kind of perked up, um so and maybe, I don't know, I heard a lot of Amy Mann in there and some maybe some John Bryan-ish kind of production. is that am i here Am I hearing that? is that
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting because a lot of people have told me, not necessarily production, but um but my songwriting style is a lot like Amy Mann. Yeah. For sure. The melody on that one specifically like was very, yeah. Oh, okay. and then Not in a bad way. I mean, you know it's a good, I enjoyed the song. Yeah, I love her. I just I never, you know, I never really like studied her music or anything. So I think it's interesting. And I when I listen back to her, I'm like, that is true. We kind of do write like sort of similarly. Yeah. Sun is always shining. Palm trees always sing. But every day you burn and the wind makes your ears ring.
00:33:21
Speaker
Find a way to embrace the same Wear all the care buttons if you're pretty If anyone deserves to be happy, it's you If anyone can figure it out If anyone can make it all better If anyone deserves to be happy, it's you
00:33:52
Speaker
I dug that one a lot, the timpani. I don't know if that's marimba or xylophone or glockenspiel or something. and I'm sure that one started as your vocal and an acoustic. Yes. You remember how that one, where that was from? Oh, OK. yeah Yeah, piano. Yes, I had a japanese a young Japanese friend whom I actually met through. i' ah I'm a Buddhist, and I met her through my Buddhist community. and um And she was going through, she was just such a, she had, she's still alive, I'm not, I don't know how to say she was, as though she's dead. She's very much alive and very, very happy. um But at the time, and she she was so inspiring to me because she has so much compassion, which is of course, like what we're striving for in our community is to have compassion. and
00:34:46
Speaker
Um, she really, she was much younger than me, but she taught me so much. Like she would just like send notes to people, letters to people, you know, and indeed day when we don't, we don't mail anything to anyone. That's what she was doing. She's like writing letters, writing notes to drop off at people's houses. Like just so much like reaching out to people. yeah How are you letting them, letting them know that they were cared about? Just such this, this incredible spirit. um And she really wanted to stay in LA. She was fighting hard to stay in l LA. She was from Japan. um And she was having so many challenges. like you know She was getting um harassed at her workplace. Her roommate kicked her out. her Just like everything was falling apart. And as a result, she you know her boyfriend was living in another state.
00:35:35
Speaker
and she was goingnna she was going to leave LA and go live with them and they were going to get married you know for her green card. Well, it ended up that he was he was seeing someone else yeah that whole time. They were living long distance. And just just her life was just in just such a mess. You know, she was staying with me. She had no place to stay. Her boyfriend broke up with her. She lost her job. I mean, just everything at once. i And just the sweetest person. And she was just, you know, really, really, you know, um using using her spiritual practice to really her Buddhist practice to overcome all this stuff. And I just was so encouraged by her because it's not like, um you know, she didn't like the weather. She's allergic to the sun. She's like,
00:36:21
Speaker
I mean, just all these things stacked up against her. And so I i wrote that song for her, you know, and, you know, ah kind of just this beautiful spirit, you know, and just like do you deserve to be happy. And talk about a universal message there. There you go. OK. Grab on to right. Yeah. You know, be allergic to the sun. Well, yeah, the deserving to be happy part more than the allergic. Yes. Yes. Yes. So leave me behind, tell me about that one. Leave you behind, leave me behind. Leave you behind, yes. My notes are terrible, I have terrible.
00:37:02
Speaker
I originally obviously wrote that a long time ago because it's on my first album. My brother and I co-wrote that song together. we' We're listening to a lot of Jeff Buckley at the time. I was like, yeah, like that. This is the last goodbye song. And it kind of reminded me of that. And um I said, sure, this is a really great emotional song. And um so I wrote it. The funny thing is that he says that I got the chords wrong. yeah
00:37:34
Speaker
But it it is the most popular song that I have. And um when I played it around Denver, you know people would love it. And they just they knew like every song of my brother's solo on that song. My brother produced it. And then when I left Denver, my husband at the time, we were touring around in an RV. We sold everything we owned and went on tour. I was playing solo. all over the United States and we're living on an RV for like six months and we stopped in LA in Venice and my brother was playing um like at an art show and he asked me to come up and play that song with him and I did and there was a music supervisor in the audience who said hey can I use your stuff you know for the real world road rules and I was like yeah wow that's awesome and so I was like I think we should move to LA
00:38:24
Speaker
I'm going to be a star. Yeah. um The quintessential LA experience. Yeah. that's Totally. so Totally. But, um, you know, I also got some, some advice from a friend from LA who was, I met in Denver who was on tour, who borrowed my PA. And, uh, and he said, he said, if you're going to, eat shit like you do in the music industry, might as well do it on the beach or near the beach. And I was like, good plan. So that's another reason why I moved here. But yeah, I mean, really playing that song with my brother sort of like was magical, you know, to come to L.A. where dreams are made and be able to play in front of an audience to get a song placed and we're by the beach. And it's just like, are you kidding me? I want to live here all the time. Right. so
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of what happened with that song. It was that song. Yeah, that's a great origin story. So you mentioned your brother a couple of times playing with him, got you got the music supervisor's attention, and that was your first placement. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I'm assuming you had ah you built a relationship with with her. those, you know, placements that I got and and, you know, were really through friends, you know, like knowing people and knowing music supervisors or or people who are replacing music, which is really, you know, really how you do it. It's funny you mentioned, too, that you you say you got the chords wrong. um So but the record that I released in 2019, it was all it was a weird
00:39:59
Speaker
way to produce it. like I did and wrote all the songs here. Actually, I guess I wrote half of the songs long ago when I lived in Indianapolis and then the other half when after I moved to l LA, which is why it's called Indianapolis, which is the hardest name to Google ever. It's a bad idea, but anyway. indiana indianaapolis no indeed see exactly india So it's Indianapolis and Los Angeles. Indianapolis, but nobody can remember it much less spell it. So it's a terrible, terrible name for an album. But people don't need to say it. I mean, what album names do you say out loud? Yeah, that's true. That's a good point.
00:40:43
Speaker
But anyway, so what I had this this batch of songs and I had ah my old guitar player from a previous band and a drummer still lived in Indianapolis and I sent them all the tracks um and they they basically re-recorded everything and I flew out there for a weekend and did the vocals.
Production Changes in Songwriting
00:41:00
Speaker
so Hey, this is super long winded way to say when I i got finished the record and there's a song called build it up. And when I was going to play a show here in LA with a brand new group of players and I sent them the tracks, first time we got together, I'm playing it the way that I had written it.
00:41:19
Speaker
And we got through the song and they're like, hey, hold on, this is all wrong. So I go back and listen. And yeah, a couple of the chords were different. He basically had substituted a couple of chord here and there. And I'm like, oh, well, I guess I- Took a little liberty in the production there. Yeah, basically. Just reminded me of that. I thought it was funny. So now every time I play that, I'm like- Did he get a songwriter credit? He probably did. Yeah, I probably did. yeah so Is that why you moved to LA? To be in the entertainment and music industries? No, I moved to LA for the entertainment industry, yes. But by that i I didn't move here until I was 37. I married, had a two-year-old. like you know um
00:42:06
Speaker
I had been and i be had basically kind of put music away at that point. um And I had a big, long 10-year break. But no, i'm ah like my main thing is is I'm a TV editor. I'm typically the one that takes a song and puts it in and a scene. um i I get the batch from the music supervisor, so I'm not picking them out necessarily. yeah So no. i've Nice. So you're a good person to know. You're a good person to know, everyone. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. But just know that your songs are going to be second in line to all of my songs. Of course. You know what? But that's typical with everybody working in the business. That's how Hollywood is. Absolutely. Me first. And then if there's room for you, maybe. That's right. That's right. Probably not. Yeah. Similar. I had a buddy that I had worked together with Indianapolis in the TV business, and he came out here and started doing stuff. And he said, hey, you should come out and cut the show with me. This was February of 2009, January, February, something like that. So I flew out for three months, and I lived here in the winter. And you were like, this is awesome. I know. I was cutting on the universal lot. I'm looking around, going, why? What the fuck do I still live in the Midwest? This is amazing. I'm making more than I make in Indianapolis. I'm working in this cool environment. I got home and I talked to my wife. She's like, yeah, let's go. So we packed up and moved to Los Angeles. And it's been going so well until this year when the bottom dropped out of Hollywood. Hopefully it comes back. I'm sure it will. Yes, yes. Wow. Yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
But I want to talk about you. I'm glad I don't have you playing music. Yeah, I know, right? But I want to keep talking about you some more. So listening to Nice Girl, the other one that I whatever reason jumped out to me was PayPal. Yeah, Hey Pal was a song that I wrote on the RV when we were still ah we're still living on it. Even after we came to LA, we're still living like and um like down in Dockweiler. Do you know Dockweiler? And we would go up and down the coast. And you know my life was very transient at the time. And so just kind of thinking about like having
00:44:33
Speaker
ah a warm place and a safe place and a stable place, you know, and, you know, noticing the homeless, thinking about that too, and sort of like this feeling of sort of, hey, you know, somebody welcoming you in and, and letting you sort of be and be warm and be safe and be in love, you know. it's It's got a little bit of a swagger to it too though. i I felt like kind of a swagger, but also a little aloof. It's kind of a little mystique to it.
00:45:05
Speaker
I mean, I didn't have anything to lose anywhere. I was living on the road, so I just kind of wrote from where I was at, which was, fuck, everything is fine, and you know I can do whatever I want. yeah Basically, that was my attitude at the time. yeah And i really I really wanted to sort of marry those elements of, and I think my brother did a good job of marrying those elements of you know acoustic and you know what what was you know happening at the time with sort of this like, um hip hop kind of electronic kind of element, you know, yeah um marrying like acoustic guitar with those elements, you know, um in such a way that didn't make it like um too hippie ish or too, right? um years on redrie yeah Yeah, exactly. But just kind of the right sort of, you know, kind of upbeat kind of indie pop kind of song.
00:45:58
Speaker
I still love that sound. I mean, that still works. I mean, I know it's it's probably a little dated these days, production-wise, but i yeah yeah, that's that's that's always worked for me, that kind of you know hip beat and acoustic and married within a really good melody and ah in a vocal.
00:47:08
Speaker
When I was toying with what I was going to call this song pod, one of my ideas was, do we need a bridge? yeah you know Are you familiar with this? you know Lately, the bridge is kind of has a question mark after it, at least in songwriting. Do you have an opinion? A bridge or no bridge? like what's What's your approach? I don't think a song necessarily needs a bridge. I need a break a lot of times. like I need a break in sort of the um what's happening.
00:47:40
Speaker
to make it interesting for me. But I think maybe people are so used to really simple music now that, you know, like you you hear songs with three or four chords and that's all it is, the whole song. And, you know, so they might think, why do you need a bridge? right yeah Why do you need something to break that up when they're so used to that? There's no break in it. For me, I i think it makes a song more exciting, but I don't think it is necessary. I think it depends on the song. whether you you know whether that But providing something interesting to me is more my taste. like I want something different in a song. I want like that tension.
00:48:26
Speaker
you know ah or release of tension, it could be, you know depending on the song, I need that break. um i like I like to mix it up a little bit, but other people, I think they're used to kind of you know just the same thing. I don't know, what's your opinion on it? I mean, um my opinion is I put a bridge in almost every song and I wonder if I should maybe not put a bridge in every song, but um I'm like you. I get to a point where I'm like, no, this song i need ze lit it needs something different here. like i want my My philosophy a lot of time when I'm writing is I want to write a song and I want to teach people how to sing it and as as
00:49:06
Speaker
as quickly as possible if you're not if you're the audience member. That's kind of part of my part of what I'm trying to do as as a songwriter. yeah um And I feel like yeah like and let's just like you're saying, you just at some point, you know you you've done the chorus a couple of times and you're two minutes, 1.45 into the song, something, and it's not ready to be done yet. I don't want it like you're saying. I don't want to just repeat the chorus seven times at the end. right right But I want to sing the chorus again, so what what goes here? It has to be something different and new. like i yeah I've heard the verse twice, and now I really want to get to the heart. I want to dig down lyrically and get into the heart of what the song is really about. It's like kind it's almost like a so almost like the code for me. If you're listening to a Willsbox song, you want to know what the song is really about, and this is probably not a not a great way to code it. but
00:49:55
Speaker
usually the bridge is what I'm actually talking about. So yeah i I put a bridge in almost all my songs. yeah There are some amazing songs though that do have two chords. um yeah There's a Fleetwood Mac song that I can't remember the name of at the moment. It's Dreams, just two chords? Yeah, there's yeah it's just two chords. They like throw in an A minor, but they do have a bridge during the solo yeah and there's they throw in an A minor in there. That's the only chord that they throw in there. you know And they they repeat like they do two measures of G instead of one. That kind of ah kind of thing. Yeah. But yeah, it's a wonderful. I mean, if that's the song you're thinking of, they probably have others with just two chords. but Yeah, I think that's that sounds that sounds like the one i think I'm thinking of. But yeah, and it's just going back to that simplicity. And like we talked about earlier, and just get all sort of circle to that.
00:50:48
Speaker
There's something authentic there and it works and it doesn't matter. There's two chords because it's Stevie Nicks singing a song that's captivating and emotionally you know compelling to literally everyone that hears it from yeah you know the 70s to today on a TikTok. I was making a commentary about how I didn't realize like you just wanted to know whether I write bridges or not. I was making a commentary on like the state of music today. Yeah, I know. I mean, i no, I love it. Really just a question to see what comes out. People like bridges or not. I really don't know what I'm doing as an interviewer. So I'm just like, there are some interesting questions. Let's ask these and see what happens. um But I think this has been a fun conversation. Thank you. Yes, it has been. It leaves me ah wanting to know more about you. so
00:51:41
Speaker
Well, all right. Well, Helen, there you go. That's half the trick right there. Maybe I need to interview you. How about that? Yeah. Maybe we'll have you back and do another episode. Or I'm going to interview you. Yeah. What's next for you, CreativeWise? well Are there any projects you're working on now? Yeah. i am I feel like my whole journey is in search of the perfect song. Do you feel like that? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. That's hilarious. But yes. and And I am constantly trying to find it. So I'm really looking, I'm really searching and I'm really, you know, I'm trying to mix it up, refresh. I took a songwriting class for the first time in many, many years okay with um an independent artist I love.
00:52:29
Speaker
His name is Sam Evian, E-V-I-A-N, like the water. Like the water, OK. Yeah. But that was really inspiring. And actually, you know, last night, so a good friend of mine came into town who I haven't i haven't seen him in like 10 years, but I have so much admiration for this guy, Jeff Caldwell. He's an amazing, amazing and player. and guitarist and singer and songwriter and he played last night the song that just like blew me away at the open mic at the open mic revival and um I was like you gotta teach me that song that's like so amazing and so and and then he said well if you ever if you ever get stuck to he said yeah I'll teach it to you and if you ever get stuck like just send me stuff via voice memo and like we can and I'll do the same we can help each other out and And I just thought, that's so great. And I think that that's, so I'm kind of like getting back to that place of like wanting to sort of be open to other people's like ideas and just get inspired. That's what I'm looking for. this Yeah. And change. Cause you know, you get sick of writing the same song over and over again. yeah I even have a song about that. So, but that sort of theme everywhere.
00:53:51
Speaker
Over and over and over again, it's like, I need something new. Oh, I'm also writing a song called Indie Rocker. That one I'm excited about. but that sounds I think you heard it. I played it at truck stop. OK. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so I'm excited about that one. But yeah, just writing and trying to find it. Yeah. You know. Well, very cool. Well, I look forward to hearing more and more from you. and Same. yeah Make it out to the open mic revival whenever I can. Yes, please. Please do. Thank you so much for spending 75 minutes with me talking about nerdy songwriting stuff.
00:54:33
Speaker
Oh my gosh, did I talk your ear off? I'm so sorry. No, I love it. No, it's been great. It's been great. This has been a fun conversation for sure.
Closing and Engagement Encouragement
00:54:40
Speaker
Some of them are easy. Some of them are hard. This was an easy one. Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that. Well, I had a lot of fun. Thank you so much. It was fun talking to you. Thanks for listening to Willsbock's Songpod. You've made it this far. Please rate, review, like, love, add, subscribe, do all the things on whatever app it is that you're hearing in my voice. That lets the almighty algorithm know that interesting people like you like this show and will serve it up to other cool and interesting people. Willsbock's Songpod is produced by Willsbock Entertainment LLC. Mixed, mastered, and edited by me, Tim Willsbock. See you next time.