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Hiring Fundraisers the Right Way: What We All Miss
31 Plays5 days ago
In part two of our conversation, Brianna Quinn flips the script: she talks about what hiring managers get wrong, how organizations unintentionally repel great candidates, and what both sides can do to create a better process. From pay transparency to interview equity, this is a practical guide for anyone building a team—or considering their next move.
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Transcript
Introduction to Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast. Whether you are a seasoned professional or a first-time fundraiser, we have the advice you need to take your next step toward major gift mastery.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm your host, Tom Dauber, President of Abundant Vision Philanthropic Consulting. Last week's conversation was a blast. I'm so excited to have you with me for this next segment.
00:00:30
Speaker
Let's get back to the show.
Challenges in Interviewing for Donor-Related Roles
00:00:32
Speaker
I think that's a problem just inherently with the interview process itself is that the employer asks, you know, 50 minutes of questions and then you get five minutes at the end.
00:00:42
Speaker
And that's really not a lot of time to really dig in and ask, OK, so you're telling me that you have a list of individual donors that you just don't have time to get to. OK.
00:00:54
Speaker
Well, what does that mean? What kind of donors are they like? Are you expecting me to get million dollar gifts from somebody who's been giving a thousand dollars? Like, what does that pipeline really look like?
00:01:05
Speaker
Is this are the CEOs? Is the CEO willing to go on donor calls is especially with high net worth individual donors? Are there systems and processes in place to support these goals?
00:01:17
Speaker
And you just, it's hard to have those conversations when you're interviewing because you get such limited time for your own questions. But I think you have
Key Traits of Successful Fundraisers
00:01:26
Speaker
to push that. You have to ask those questions. I remember, so when I was interviewing for this role that I'm in right now, it was, don't know, third round maybe.
00:01:35
Speaker
And it was me and everyone in the C-suite. And so my title is vice president. And so for I swear for like the first 10 or 15 minutes, we were just talking philosophically about philanthropy and fundraising and how I view it and how they view it.
00:01:50
Speaker
And finally, the chief external affairs officer was like, I hate to interrupt this, but we actually do have questions we have to ask. And so it was nice, though, just kind of understand philosophically, like where they were, where I was, what we could talk about. And I thought it was helpful just to understand, like, this is how we both operate. Yeah.
00:02:10
Speaker
I would think that would be really critical. So I'm glad you got to have that conversation. Well, transitioning a bit here, thinking more about, you know, instead of maybe what fundraisers could learn from your experience.
00:02:25
Speaker
I'm sure that there's a lot that a hiring manager could learn from your experience as well. For example, you know, don't send out notices like that on Christmas Eve, right?
00:02:36
Speaker
Based on your recent search, What are some of the most common misconceptions you find nonprofit hiring managers, especially those that are non-fundraisers, have about what makes a great major gift officer?
00:02:49
Speaker
So I think, and I even thought this myself for a while and am thrilled to know that it's not the case, but I think that a lot of people think that major gift officers, they're like one of their strengths on strength finder should be woo and they should be like, you know,
00:03:05
Speaker
sales type people. And that's really not the case. think the best fundraisers are those that listen, that can, that have empathy, that can understand individuals that prioritize, you know, maybe your strength is individualization and you see the person for who they are. I think those, that is more important than woo as a strength. Like if you're looking at strength finder, woo is dead last on my strength finder list. And it used to embarrass me as a fundraiser.
00:03:34
Speaker
Cause I'm Oh my gosh, like I'm a fundraiser and I can't, that's like not my style. Now I feel like the field is coming around to people like me and it's not such a bad thing, but people that aren't in fundraising,
00:03:48
Speaker
don't understand that. And then
Crafting Effective Job Descriptions for Fundraisers
00:03:50
Speaker
the other part of it is, you know, if you're not in fundraising, you think that, oh, all you could do is go out and ask for money. Just do it. Like it's just ask the person for money. Just ask them for a million dollars. Why don't you find McKenzie Scott? Why don't you find, why isn't Bill Gates giving to us? And there's a lot more to it.
00:04:05
Speaker
And so I think that that's, those are probably the two most important things. How often do you think you'd ran into those two things? I know you weren't applying for every job out there, but how frequently did you run into that? Do you think?
00:04:17
Speaker
I mean, I would probably say about half the jobs that I applied for. So half the jobs that I applied for and got interviews for. So I interviewed with, because I was so picky, I did get a lot of interviews. I can't remember the exact percentage, but it was over 50%. I was going to say, that's a really great hit rate in today's environment.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it was like over 50%. Like I was getting interviews. I was withdrawing from roles. I was like, there was a lot going on. I mean, it was a full-time job. There was a time where it was literally a full-time job.
00:04:47
Speaker
and I would say about half the time would get, you know, conversations where it's like, we have so much low hanging fruit or we just need somebody to ask we just, and it's like, well, there's lot more to it than that.
00:05:01
Speaker
And how would you say that organizations, job postings and interview processes, how did that reveal whether they understood the nuance and strategic nature of major gift fundraising? I guess ah to ask that a different way, if I'm a hiring manager,
00:05:18
Speaker
And I want to indicate that I get this stuff effectively. What should I do? Talk about relationships and partnerships throughout the entire job description.
00:05:29
Speaker
Talk about, i mean, you can talk about your vision, your strategy, your goals, dollar amounts. That's fine. I get it. Like we do have metrics that we have to meet, but I think that if you center it in the relationship aspect, those of us in the field will understand that and we can see like, okay, this is important. Like your first, if your first line is like bring in $600,000 in your first six weeks, like that's not, it's not a great job description at all.
00:05:59
Speaker
Right. And I also think like during the interview process, like make sure that you're not, that the fundraiser is not just talking to other people in the development staff, make sure there's somebody from program or somebody from finance, especially if they're going to be working with budgets and grant proposals.
00:06:15
Speaker
Make sure that there's other people involved. But
Executive Involvement in Fundraiser Hiring
00:06:18
Speaker
at the same time, they don't have to meet every single person. And it doesn't have to be a 10-step process. And there's there are some that are 10 steps. And I've been through them.
00:06:27
Speaker
And that's exhausting because at the end, you're like, at this point, i don't care anymore. And that's awful to say. But from a candidate perspective, you're just exhausted. And so think that's some of the things that I would want employers to understand.
00:06:41
Speaker
Is there any other advice you might give to nonprofit leaders about how to make their organizations more appealing to experienced fundraisers during the recruitment process? hey It's such a fascinating question.
00:06:54
Speaker
And this isn't really going I mean, it's going I want to answer your question, but there's something else that's also on my mind kind of related to this, but I think yeah having the CEO and the leader involved in the interview process, I think is important.
00:07:05
Speaker
Like I think that that making sure that, especially if it's like a higher level fundraising position, think it's important that the CEO or the executive director and the major gift officer can work well together.
00:07:17
Speaker
That doesn't mean they agree on everything. I mean, I had a role where I pushed back on my executive director all the time. And so for like, sorry, six months or so, i mean, the first six months we were just back and forth, but I ended up staying there for six years.
00:07:32
Speaker
So like you get to a good point, but I do want to say something about the recruitment process. So,
Exemplary Recruitment Process
00:07:39
Speaker
I, there's an organization that I worked for, I will not name them, but they were, they had the best recruitment ever.
00:07:47
Speaker
I mean, their talent acquisition team, top notch. They made me feel like amazing. Like I basically had, there was like a video that they would put out about the role.
00:08:01
Speaker
For some roles, they would do a webinar where candidates could come and like interact with the hiring manager and ask questions and get a better feel for the role. When you hit a certain point, they had what I would call concierge where that person would be like, okay, so here are the people that you're going with.
00:08:17
Speaker
Here are the competencies that they're going to be looking for. Here are some of the questions that you may be asked. Like it was very thoughtful in caring for the employee as a human being, because that's what we all are. We're humans, even though we can come across as, oh, you're just a candidate.
00:08:36
Speaker
They were amazing. It was amazing. With that said, and I have told them this now that I'm no longer there, i said, think you almost do too good of a job at your job.
00:08:48
Speaker
Tom Dauber here for Abundant Vision Philanthropic Consulting. Fundraising can be hard work, and it can be hard to mentally get into the place you need to be in order to see new opportunities.
00:09:00
Speaker
Everyone struggles with it. We are like the fish in the fishbowl who just can't see the water they're swimming in. That's when having outside expertise comes in handy. For 25 years, I've been helping nonprofits analyze their challenges, discover new ways forward, and develop clear plans that lead to greater fundraising revenues.
00:09:20
Speaker
Now I am available to help your organization develop the abundant vision it needs to inspire new levels of philanthropy at your nonprofit as well. Check out AbundantVision.net to start your journey toward greater fundraising success today.
00:09:35
Speaker
Now, back to the show. You need, there needs to be some reality. There needs to be some basis of this job is tough and here's why. Or this isn't always, yes, our benefits are amazing.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yes, we have a four-day work week. But here are some of the drawbacks and things that you're going to have to think about in this role. Like, I think there's a good balance to have. Like, don't set it up to be this, like, amazing role. Because anybody who's been in this field for 25 years or more, we've seen it.
00:10:06
Speaker
And we're like, yeah, okay. And so I told the talent management team at that organization, i was like, you guys are really, really good at your job. And it's almost a detriment to the organization. Like you need to be a little more real with the candidates.
00:10:20
Speaker
Wow.
Onboarding and Relationship Building for New Hires
00:10:21
Speaker
Here we go. All right. So Brianna, were there any standout examples of organizations that really got it right, either in how they structured the role or how they engaged with you as a candidate?
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, I worked, there was an organization that I worked for that was amazing. They did a great job and cultivating, you know, to use a donor term, cultivating their candidates.
00:10:48
Speaker
And they would have intro webinars and opportunities for you to engage with the withed hiring manager and the team. They would, at one point, they would give you what I would call a concierge to make sure that you prepared and you knew who you were going to talk to and what competencies you were looking at.
00:11:06
Speaker
And then um at the end, like they would even share with you like, okay, so here's the next steps and here's what you're doing. And here, i mean they were just, they just really kind of held your hand through the process and made you feel like a human.
00:11:18
Speaker
I also think the role that I applied that I'm in right now did a great job in that I've been there, you know, i it was like December to January. So it wasn't, I applied in December, had an offer in January. So it wasn't this long drawn out process.
00:11:31
Speaker
And also, didn't have to do some take home assignment where I was providing them with a marketing strategy or a fundraising strategy for the year, which was nice. I provided my work that I had done in the past, but I wasn't doing free work. And I think that that's important.
00:11:47
Speaker
And I think there's equity issues around the free work because not everyone has the time to have a full time job and then also do work for free. How would you say nonprofit
Role of Search Firms and Job Application Experiences
00:11:58
Speaker
leaders, and this is a little bit beyond what we were talking here, but I mean, since you're a new employee in a new role, relatively speaking, how can nonprofit leaders better support newly hired fundraisers in their first 90 days to really set them up for long-term success?
00:12:16
Speaker
Give them the time to understand the work. give them the time to have those intro conversations with their colleagues, to build relationships with their colleagues, to have, you know, just coffee chats with donors where there's not this pressure to make an ask on your first visit.
00:12:36
Speaker
Cause that's just not, it just doesn't feel good if I'm being honest, like, and it just doesn't feel good. I think from either the donor or the fundraiser, cause it is about relationships. And so if you can just give your employee that time, um I think it sets them up for success in the long run because they will feel more confident in the work that they're doing.
00:12:57
Speaker
They will understand the theory of change. They will understand what they are actually hired to do. And I think that that's probably like the number one thing that you can do is give them time. That's great.
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's excellent advice. It's, you know, the worst thing you want to feel when you're coming in as a new employee is to feel all this pressure to meet budget. And if you don't make the asks, then everybody gets fired because there's not enough money. And that really gets in the way of the relationship building aspect, doesn't it?
00:13:28
Speaker
Yeah, it really does. And relationships, like, so yeah, go ahead. Oh, no, no, go ahead, please. I was just going to say that relationships don't always follow the timeline that the budget may want you to follow. The finance team may want you to follow. Like that's, and so that's hard to like understanding, like I understand there's the bottom line from the finance perspective, but also like this relationship is involving and we've learned something new and we've, you know, there's something else that they may be interested in. And so we're, you know,
00:14:01
Speaker
going back and forth and ideating on this proposal. And don't know if we're going to close it in the next 30 days, but we may, but there may be an opportunity for it to be bigger and we close in the next 60 days. So I think that there's, you know, that's the challenge too.
00:14:16
Speaker
So one question I meant to ask you earlier, I didn't think of until just now. When you were going through these searches, did did you engage with search firms at all? Or were you pretty much just out there on your own looking for jobs on job boards? If a role was posted through a search firm, I did.
00:14:37
Speaker
i think search firms are great and they have their place. I think sometimes they can get in the way of speedy hiring process. I feel like I sort of learned that if
Authenticity in Job Search and Hiring Processes
00:14:50
Speaker
it is a search firm to add four to six weeks.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. Because they want to vet. Yeah, exactly. can think of situations where a fundraiser has made contact with an organization about job, and then the organization hires the search firm even you know after the the fundraisers reached out about a particular job posting.
00:15:18
Speaker
And then the whole process has been delayed months and months. when they probably would have hired that person anyway. So that really can slow things down. And go ahead real quick. Yeah. So there's the, this is the other thing too. Like I once applied for a job that like I applied and I immediately got a decline. I mean, it was like within the hour. And then like the next week I had a search firm reach out to me about that role.
00:15:46
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I just applied directly through their site and was declined. He's like, oh yeah, we took it down. They took it down last week because we're going to start the search for them. And I was like, okay.
00:15:59
Speaker
So it was just like starting it all over again. And so that was a little bit of a frustration. Well, you know, you've shared a lot of great advice with us today, Brianna. Is there anything else that you'd want to say either to folks looking for jobs presently or to folks looking to hire somebody great?
00:16:16
Speaker
Be yourself on both sides. Be authentic, be real. At the end of the day, you're going to be working with these people eight to 10 hours. and um Even if it's remote, you're still going to be pretty much connected with all the technology.
00:16:32
Speaker
And so I think that it's so important to just be yourself because if you're faking it during the interview process, either side, that there's going to be a disconnect when you start and you're just starting all over both the employer and the employee. So just be yourself.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's so important. That's great. Well,
Podcast Conclusion and Call to Action
00:16:53
Speaker
Brianna, thank you so much for all the time you spent with us today. Certainly wish you the best of luck in this new role. I hope you're there a long time and you do a lot of great things for the world.
00:17:05
Speaker
Thank you. Anyway, that's the show for today. Thank you all for joining us. Now, if you've enjoyed this podcast, please be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on your podcast provider.
00:17:18
Speaker
I'm your host, Tom Daubert. Thank you for joining me as we journey together towards major gift mastery on the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast.