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Safe Spaces and Stuck Generosity – Getting to the Heart of Donor Psychology
65 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, Courtney shares eye-opening stories of how unresolved trauma and attachment to wealth can block generosity—even for those who deeply want to give. Tom and Courtney unpack how fundraisers can show up with empathy, curiosity, and a willingness to challenge donors based on their stated values. Plus, Courtney explains how giving can be an act of spiritual freedom and how fundraisers can help donors live more fully into their purpose.
Key Themes:
- Why wealth can make people feel isolated and judged
- The importance of holding space, not pushing an ask
- Fundraisers as values-based coaches, not salespeople
- One millionaire’s transformation from fear to generosity
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Transcript
Introduction to Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast. Whether you are a seasoned professional or a first-time fundraiser, we have the advice you need to take your next step toward major gift mastery.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm your host, Tom Dauber, President of Abundant Vision Philanthropic
Understanding the Psychology of Generosity
00:00:24
Speaker
Consulting. Welcome back to the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast. In part two of our three-part series with Courtney Markley, we go deeper into the psychology behind generosity.
00:00:35
Speaker
Why do even the most generous people hesitate to give? Courtney shares moving client stories and teaches us how to hold space better, ask better questions, and walk with donors as they wrestle with fear and calling.
00:00:48
Speaker
If you've ever wondered how to help a donor get unstuck, this episode is for you. I would say about half my clients who've come to me are Christian and have art. But most of them have this desire to want to be generous and want to give because, you know, it's how we were created. It feels good to do these things.
00:01:05
Speaker
And, you know, my mind goes to the woman who says, I know I'm supposed to give. I have a desire to give. But again, for a lot of folks, it goes back to childhood.
00:01:16
Speaker
And she's reminded of the sexual abuse that she faced as a child and how she has built up these habits. For one point in her life, she built up these habits to protect herself, right?
00:01:30
Speaker
But now, decades later, she still has some rather unhealthy habits that that she hasn't quite been able to let go of. So we have to remember that the people that we're talking to are human.
00:01:43
Speaker
They don't operate based on math. They operate based on emotion. And you just don't know what's happened in their past that's driving those emotions. Boy, that's really helpful.
00:01:55
Speaker
Now, you mentioned that half of your clients are faith-based. Half of them aren't. Do you see a lot of differences in the way, you know, like a Christian versus a non-Christian might think about money in your context?
The Role of Personal History in Generosity
00:02:09
Speaker
As a whole, know, if I sit down and I ask someone, what role does money play in your life? Or what's the purpose of money? Or what are you hoping to accomplish out of life? Yeah.
00:02:23
Speaker
By and large, my Christian and non-Christian clients give me pretty identical answers. Now, I'm not advocating for whether that's right or wrong, but simply just saying this is something that I've just observed that Christians and non-Christians, for the most part, think very similarly around money.
00:02:42
Speaker
even non-Christian clients, again, who may not have that faith component, a lot of people still have that charitable desire. They want to do things to help their neighbor, to help their fellow man. They want to be generous.
00:02:57
Speaker
So would say that this is a conversation that applies to everybody. that's great. I found that as well.
00:03:05
Speaker
And I think... One of the reasons like on my podcast, welcome everybody regardless of the worldview. I feel like it's really valuable to have everyone come to the table with as much transparency as to where they're coming from as possible simply because as fundraisers,
00:03:27
Speaker
And that's what we're doing, right? We're approaching people of all stripes, of all faiths, of all
Creating Safe Spaces for Donors
00:03:33
Speaker
backgrounds. And so getting to hear from the person that's coming from a completely different background from you, even if you don't agree with that background, it's still really helpful because you're going to run into donors with all sorts of backgrounds in the nonprofit world.
00:03:48
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And that's the thing that's interesting. You know, we go back to just the importance of holding safe spaces. We don't necessarily have to align with the people that we're talking about on every single thing or even validate every single thing.
00:04:05
Speaker
But we can absolutely hold that safe space and be very curious and ask really good questions and say, hey, I know that this is really important to you and I'd just like to learn more about it. What does that mean to you?
00:04:20
Speaker
And regardless, again, of which side of the coin they might be on, we can just be really curious and hold that safe space for people, even if you may not personally abide by those same things.
00:04:34
Speaker
values or worldviews. That's fantastic. Now, in your work, Courtney, you relate to donors, you help them think through from a Christian perspective or from value-based perspective, how they should think about their wealth and their philanthropy.
00:04:52
Speaker
Many people give for many reasons, many different reasons. Have you ever seen your clients impacted by thinking about their financial decisions in light of their core values? I mean, how does that make a difference, thinking about their core values and applying it to their giving?
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, mean, it makes a huge difference. And for me as their counselor, and I also get to put my coaching hat on, it means that I get to challenge them in really healthy ways.
00:05:22
Speaker
And again, this can apply whether you're Christian or non-Christian. Let's kind of step back for a moment. I'm thinking of a client that I have who's a musician, and it is his goal to move to Nashville one day and live out the musician dream.
00:05:40
Speaker
Now, I know nothing about music. I don't pretend to know anything about music, but every decision that he makes, every time we get together, I say, now tell me, how does this help your ultimate goal of getting to Nashville and living out that dream of being a musician?
00:05:59
Speaker
And so we can apply it the same way when we're talking to our clients about values. You may know nothing about those values. You may not share those same values, but you can say,
00:06:10
Speaker
Now, in light of your values, how does this make sense? How does it fit in? Where are you feeling challenged to take a step forward? You don't, again, you don't necessarily have to be the guru. You don't have to be the one telling them the answers, but just holding that space open and asking just really good, curious questions so that they can start to piece things together. That's great. Yes, yes, but it, it,
00:06:38
Speaker
it allows us if your clients have some sort of value that they hold very dear, that gives you essentially, I say, permission to challenge them little bit.
00:06:49
Speaker
And so I always, I jokingly can say this with my clients because they know my heart and they know where I'm coming from. But I tell them like, I'm way harder on my Christian clients than on my non-Christian clients.
00:07:01
Speaker
Maybe because I understand the worldview the best, and so I can press my thumb into certain things a little bit more. But we can step back and say, listen, you've told me to my face that this is what you believe in, and yet we're being challenged to move forward and you're hesitant.
00:07:17
Speaker
Let's talk about that a bit more and let's go a bit deeper here. So it's okay. would say that's probably the other insight that I would like to share for people who are working with high net worth donors.
00:07:29
Speaker
They don't get challenged very much. And they don't have very many people who just are straight up honest with them. And so I would say it's okay too. Once your donors share value with you,
Aligning Financial Decisions with Core Values
00:07:43
Speaker
hey, is it okay if we lean in here a little bit more? would it look like to get a healthy challenge in this area so that I could be someone to help you grow and really walk into this value that you have?
00:07:55
Speaker
Oh, that's great. Now, many people aren't comfortable talking about money, much less religion. What challenges do you run into talking through those issues with your clients?
00:08:07
Speaker
Hmm. It's interesting. So most people who come to the table with me for the first time, they don't know what to expect.
00:08:17
Speaker
They assume we're going to have a conversation that sounds very similar to one that they might have with their financial advisor or their CPA, where it's a lot of math and numbers kind of talk.
00:08:28
Speaker
Tom Dauber here for Abundant Vision Philanthropic Consulting. Fundraising can be hard work and it can be hard to mentally get into the place you need to be in order to see new opportunities.
00:08:40
Speaker
Everyone struggles with it. We are like the fish in the fishbowl who just can't see the water they're swimming That's when having outside expertise comes in handy. For 25 years, I've been helping nonprofits analyze challenges, discover new ways forward, and develop clear plans that lead to greater fundraising revenues.
00:09:01
Speaker
Now I am available to help your organization develop the abundant vision it needs to inspire new levels of philanthropy at your nonprofit as well. Check out AbundantVision.net to start your journey toward greater fundraising success today.
00:09:15
Speaker
Now, back to the show. so I preface it with that. Most people don't know what they're getting themselves into. at the same time, have to say the challenge, if I'm, if I'm being honest, if I'm kind of taking a step back, I think the challenge normally sits on my side of the table, not theirs.
00:09:37
Speaker
Meaning when I talk to other coaches or counselors, donors, who want to be engaging deeper money conversations, it's normally hesitancy on their end, not the receiving party.
00:09:52
Speaker
Meaning, I don't know if I could ask that question, Courtney. What if, you know, what if they get offended? What if they're upset that I'm asking these things? You know, what if, what if, what if? And so I mainly find that the deepest work had to be done on myself, but clients specifically are normally very pleasantly surprised when they're engaging in financial counseling.
00:10:20
Speaker
People are so hungry. for this safe space. They really, really are. And I think anyone could hold that space. Again, I don't think you need to have a financial counselor designation in order to do that for folks.
00:10:34
Speaker
But I think normally we just have to get out of our own way first and say, this is not about me trying to prove that I am the smartest person in the room.
00:10:45
Speaker
or that I'm, you know, supporting certain things, whatever might be. But truly, I'm just super curious about you as a person, and I'm going to ask you questions.
00:10:56
Speaker
And normally, the response that I hear is, I can't believe we're talking about this. But also, it feels really good to get this off my chest.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so normally, I hope I'm making sense of this answer. But normally, first has to We have to get over ourselves is essentially where I believe it begins. And just being willing to lead with vulnerability, to be willing to maybe ask a question that leads to like two minutes of awkward silence.
00:11:25
Speaker
But then it might come with a great insight or a revelation there at the end. But we kind have to get out of our own way first if we want to be having deeper conversations with people.
00:11:38
Speaker
Are there any other pieces of advice that you might have for, specifically for fundraisers, about how they can engage their donors in healthy ways, not manipulative ways, but just to help them think about their values and think about maybe their giving motives and all those sorts of things to help their donors?
Key Fundraising Strategies and Mistakes
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. would say, you know, When I'm talking with people, one of the things that I like to point out is that, again, we want to be seen as someone who wants something for the person, not something from the person.
00:12:15
Speaker
So what might that look like? That might mean that I ask you, you know, again, if you're someone of faith, I might start the conversation with, you know, what are some the causes that God has put on your heart recently? Is there certain organization or certain cause that he's been asking you to be financially supportive And I just have to be okay with the fact that it may not be my cause or my organization.
00:12:45
Speaker
You know, if someone really wants to help this specific part of town or this specific organization that has nothing to do with what I am representing, that's okay.
00:12:56
Speaker
But hey, how can I help you get connected with that organization? Can I make an introduction? want to be the person who helps you take a step forward, whether that's with me or somebody else.
00:13:09
Speaker
And so that's a tip initially how I approach the conversation because then it takes the light off of you, right? We always want the light to be on the person that we're meeting with. We always want to be lifting them up. And again, we don't want to be one more person who's just asking them for something.
00:13:29
Speaker
think people are so tired of that. And honestly, they can see right through it, right? People know, you know, when someone's approaching you and they don't really care about you as person, they just want to ask.
00:13:42
Speaker
And you don't look forward to meeting with them either, right? Like, absolutely not. But if we can say, you know, I love meeting with this person because every time I do, they hold a safe space for me just for me to be open and vulnerable. They ask me really challenging questions.
00:13:59
Speaker
And then they help me take a step forward, whether that's with them or somebody else. Well, that's someone that I'm going to want to build a stronger relationship with, right?
00:14:12
Speaker
And so would start there and just recognizing hopefully the goal is for you to help that person draw closer. For me as a Christian counselor, goal is always how can I get you closer to Jesus?
00:14:26
Speaker
Not how can I get you to give this amount or do this with your money or this or this or this. It's how can I get you closer to Jesus? And then let's talk about that. Yeah. And so I encourage people to have kind of that same mindset of, you know, whatever that person's value is, how can I just help you to be faithful and walk in those values a bit deeper and just grow with you?
00:14:50
Speaker
those are a few things that I would that I would share. Well, since I've got your ear, there's one more question that occurs to me that could be helpful for our listeners.
00:14:59
Speaker
um It sounds to me like you get a lot of very frank input from your clients and that they talk to you about their giving experiences and those sorts of things.
00:15:12
Speaker
Are there things that people in my profession... that we do horribly wrong or make awful mistakes on that your clients say, really hate this when fundraisers do A, B, or C?
00:15:25
Speaker
Hmm. Well, I so appreciate the question. There's a lot of grace here, right? I'm sure you could ask my clients the same thing about tell me all things that financial counselors get wrong, right? Right, right.
00:15:39
Speaker
Any profession. None of us are perfect. But... Some of the things that I hear from people, I'll share a few things that I hear from people. The first one that comes to mind is actually...
00:15:53
Speaker
When it comes to making the ask, not having, it's too vague. It's not very specific. And so it might sound like, Hey, we want to do this thing. And right now with like your vision casting. Right. And so could you give us some money for this thing that looks really blurry and fuzzy? And you're like, I have no idea what that means.
00:16:16
Speaker
Many of my clients, again, they're very smart, very successful. When it comes to making investments into different nonprofit organizations,
00:16:28
Speaker
they do want to know like, what is this actually for? And what are going to be like the ROIs? And they want to know that you've also done some homework and some research on it. Just like if they had to go to a bank and ask for a loan or whatever it might be, right?
00:16:52
Speaker
probably,
00:16:55
Speaker
Probably the other biggest one that I get, again, recognizing when we're talking about high net worth donors, there's a bit of a dating process that happens, isn't there?
00:17:08
Speaker
And I think sometimes another thing that I hear from folks is, there's an ask or there's a proposal too soon before you really understand that person where you have an understanding of their values and how they're living them out and how your organization may help them in a certain way live out those values.
00:17:28
Speaker
But it came across as I'm just going to sneak in and make this ask real quick and like cross my fingers and hope and pray that you say yes, because I have done it way too soon.
00:17:40
Speaker
So I hope that does that make sense? Do you hear that every now and then? totally. Both of those. I think you're spot on. Yeah. So those are probably the two biggest things is make it specific.
00:17:53
Speaker
be willing to, again, build that relationship to the point where it makes sense to make a proposal or make an ask. And so it doesn't feel like we're just trying to sneak in and sneak back out.
Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
00:18:05
Speaker
What a powerful reminder that generosity is emotional work, not just financial math. In our final episode, we'll turn the mirror on ourselves as fundraisers because we bring our own money baggage too.
00:18:18
Speaker
Tune in next time for a candid conversation about healing, calling, and growth for donors and development professionals alike. I'm your host, Tom Dobbert.
00:18:30
Speaker
Thank you for joining me as we journey together towards major gift mastery on the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast.