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Conquests of the Longbow (w/Grayson)
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Aroint! Ben, Jess, and special guest Grayson talk about one of their favorite games. And why aren't there as many King Arthur nerds around anymore.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
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Transcript
Setting the Stage with Humor
00:00:37
Speaker
Okay, all right, there we go. Keep going. Oh, yeah, that's right. A little more. Get a little bell. Yeah, just like that. Keep going. Yeah, yeah, we're going. A little more.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah, now we're trying to figure it out here. Okay, we're going in a new direction. Not sure if I like that. Well, I liked it more at the beginning. Okay, here we go. There we are.
00:01:07
Speaker
Much better.
00:01:26
Speaker
but I never realized you had a house band that you directed live. Yeah. People think people think that when that that tune plays, it's, it's something from a collection of real royalty free tunes that I purchased from a humble bundle a year ago.
00:01:44
Speaker
But actually it's a, it's a live band. It's the in-house ad lib orchestra. That explains why there's someone on the call named K. Eubanks.
00:01:57
Speaker
That's crazy, Grayson. Hey, everybody, it's Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. How you know you how dare you swallow that whole thing? You can't take Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast all for yourself.
00:02:13
Speaker
ah Someone had to do it, Ben. One of you do the first quest and the other do the second quest. Okay, it's time for a Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. No, we were going to take every word. You said podcast.
00:02:27
Speaker
okay grayson you get on this i'll do quest ben you say quest grayson you say the and we'll work from there okay okay quest quest the adventure name pod's cast no okay well we're out of time folks thanks for being here for quest questing oh
00:02:49
Speaker
Hey, you probably guessed by now.
Introducing Guest Grayson and Mononym Humor
00:02:51
Speaker
ah Ben and I, that's PS underscore Garrick on Twitch and YouTube and Decaf Jedi on those same places, are joined tonight by special guest Grayson. Grayson, how are you?
00:03:04
Speaker
i'm i'm doing I'm doing well. ah i think it's funny that I have ah i have ah a mononym. What's like a shared name? Is it a mononym? Yes. I think have it it's just it's my life now. I'm just ah known by one name, like all the great artists in history.
00:03:22
Speaker
You are the Grayson. Like when I think of a Grayson, you're at some level like the platonic ideal of a Grayson. It exists largely in an abstract hypothetical form. Grayson, i that's actually one of the things I love about KidName Ice Boy that it's like all caps BY GRAYSON.
00:03:41
Speaker
It's so funny because I thought about that. where I didn't really, I truly didn't think about it. i like wrote I wrote that real early. I was doing almost like place so placeholder, like ah like just testing out an introduction.
00:03:53
Speaker
Like, oh, how like just the timing stuff. And then I just never changed it. And then i was like, oh, now I've chosen mononym for myself. Yeah, I guess. It's weird too, because Mussolini is such a beautiful last name. I don't know why you had it. All right, you just doxed me.
00:04:12
Speaker
All right, everybody, I'll say it No, and now everybody can just search Mussolini and find out all sorts of bad things. About your beloved great grandpa. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Benny.
00:04:26
Speaker
All right. I just, appreciate that you ah you, you, you put up your, yeah ah put on your adult pants and and took charge, but I'm going to ask you, how are you doing?
Renaissance Festival Reflections
00:04:40
Speaker
You know, I'm doing pretty well. i ah I'm coming off of a very exciting weekend. i attended a Renaissance Festival for the first time.
00:04:51
Speaker
Oh, that's perfect for what we're talking about today. That's right. I did a little bit. So what I was working with mostly nude. Well, I did. I did like a gender like reversal version of Lady Godiva was what I was going for. A key Renaissance era figure. So, yeah. And I was asked to leave. I wasn't at the Renaissance fair that long.
00:05:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So no, I put on like a green tunic with like a little like leather lace up neck on it. And then like shorts and sketchers.
00:05:25
Speaker
So it wasn't a great costume. It was a nod toward the idea of a costume. Now, Jess, I got it. Was this one of those Renaissance fairs ah where where people like will also show up like dressed as Star Trek and Star Wars and whatever?
00:05:38
Speaker
I was so ready for Star Trek and I did not see it. Um, I was, I got already like alerted, ah my wife and daughter. It's like, now there could be Star Trek people here. And those are going to be the coolest people here.
00:05:52
Speaker
The people who are like there as people after maybe we'll see a doctor who perhaps who has traveled here to the Renaissance. Um, no, I will say, beautifully elaborate costumes. I saw a lot of really wonderful tiefling horns on people. Like now I'm thinking it's like next year, maybe I'm a tiefling when I go to the Renaissance fair.
00:06:11
Speaker
The, um, the, the, the problem with like doing a doctor who at the Renaissance fair is that people are just reflexively going to go for the Tom Baker, because I think that's like the most like identifiable because he had the long scarf.
00:06:27
Speaker
That's one of the, Like, because it's just like, what are going to Like be David Tennant, like be dressed well. like Like, yeah, have some floppy hair. Yeah. Like, it's like, I mean, I guess you could do Matt Smith with a bow tie.
00:06:41
Speaker
But even then, it's just like, oh, what are you? Like, ah ah what was PJ O'Rourke? Like, what are you, Tucker Carlson from the mid 2000s? Are you the image of a Republican from like, you know, 1998?
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, as someone who has literally never seen even a moment of Doctor Who, um I'm going to say, yeah like Scarf Guy is the only one I would recognize at a distance.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah, like I think that's the like, I think it's the most identifiable. i you know, I haven't been to a Renaissance fair in, I think since I was like a teenager.
00:07:24
Speaker
And i think I would, i would do the Star Trek. And that's mostly because have a Captain Pike, ah like ah costume. And I like ah yeah putting the the gray hair dye in. It makes me feel a little better about ah getting older because I was like, if I if i hold on to this and it's all gray, looks pretty good.
00:07:44
Speaker
You know, you can pretend that you're handsome Anson, like walking around. It's very powerful.
00:07:52
Speaker
But no, I mean, I have to admit, I was very skeptical the idea of a Renaissance fair. And this was a massive one. Like this is, it's, which giant one was this? It's ah in Cincinnati, right outside of the city. It's Ohio's big one.
00:08:06
Speaker
It's like a two and a half month long ah Renaissance festival. Like, like, 100 vendors, something crazy like that, all kinds of three or four different live shows going at any given time. It was a big festival, and I was kind of into it. I was skeptical. Were you skeptical? Sorry, was going say. Did you get turkey leg? Are you skeptical? No.
00:08:27
Speaker
Were you skeptical that... You were going to like it. Were you like, oh, and there's no way this is actually as fun as advertised. What were your concerns? Do i hear though the funniest part of this, Grayson? It's the fact that I walked into this Renaissance Festival for a brief moment thinking I'm probably a little too cool for the Renaissance Festival.
00:08:46
Speaker
And there's really no setting in this world that I'm too cool for. I don't know why I would think this would be the one. I think it was like that stupid nerd hierarchy chart that used to circulate 20 years ago on the internet. Oh, right yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think I was like, that was still stuck in my head. like, Oh, I enjoy point and click adventure games. I think I'm a little more sophisticated than someone dressed as a court jester.
00:09:10
Speaker
Come on. you know No way. That guy's got jingle bells on his hat.
00:09:18
Speaker
The tune from Malcolm's Revenge, Legend of Tyrandia 3, memorably about a jester. Had that one loaded up, so I had to hit it. I'm something of a jester myself. did um Did you see a joust?
00:09:32
Speaker
I did see a joust. And you know what? Yeah? Nobody died. I was really disappointed. I got called up on stage during a show. See, that's my, especially when I was because was a very shy young man,
00:09:47
Speaker
Getting called up on stage in a public show was, was like paralyzing anxiety for me as a child. See, this was my dream as a child.
00:09:57
Speaker
Like I was sure same thing like this is the moment I get called up on stage. I'm going wow people when they realize I'm actually more talented and funny than the people who've called me up or like a magician calls me up on stage to be as volunteer, but somehow I pull off a sleight of hand feet that's going to be. But yeah, this is like what's been going through my anytime I'm not like actively thinking about something. Hmm.
00:10:20
Speaker
I'm in the background thinking about what if I get called on the stage in some context and can really wow the audience.
Exploring Nerd Culture and Games
00:10:26
Speaker
That's, Once again, the project of this podcast is discovering that we're very similar.
00:10:34
Speaker
So like a lot of but a lot of guys, they walk into a room and they like clock the exits and they're like, what if a gunman jumps in here? And you're like, what if an open mic breaks out? Like that's your... yeah yeah what What's my material going to be? Yeah, I mean, it kind of in my head at any given time, like if you've seen the musical Chicago,
00:10:54
Speaker
ah Which I have. Yeah, the Roxy number in my in the back of my head is like going all the time. Like you said, it's just like the name on everybody's lips is gonna be Jess. Yeah, I don't know. But like, I'm just sure. Either Jess and more like your new one words the the syllables are and just aren't working. Maybe you'd be like Jess.
00:11:16
Speaker
Like that that might get you there, but no. So I got to go up on stage. Jess all the way. but yes i mean it was a great renaissance fair for me i got to be in front of an audience that's all i want ever in life you know it is renaissance fairs are one of those things where it's like if i think about them for a little bit i do get like kind of confused because i'm just like what did you say grayson sleepy well i guess i said horny Well, some people, it's a big attraction. It's a big attraction for a lot of people who go to Renaissance festivals. Okay, sidetrack, which is to say, I remember once I was, like, waiting ah at a thing, and I overheard, like, Renaissance Fair people, like, people that but work at Renaissance Fair, ah like...
00:12:06
Speaker
chatting and they were just talking all of this like backstage horny drama i like and everybody here like yeah just i i want everyone to know they're they like if if you got that sense they are all sleeping with each other yeah those teeth and horns are functional
00:12:29
Speaker
everybody it's it's it's like you know but from the sexy blacksmith uh to uh the guy running the mud show uh and and how'd you know there was a mud show Because there's a mud show at all of them.
00:12:44
Speaker
I didn't know this. I thought this was a unique mud show. No, that's a, that's a thing. I'll tell you. I once went to, uh, like I once, uh, went to a comedy show, which opened with a monologist and it was the guy who created mud shows.
00:13:00
Speaker
at renaissance fairs and he was not happy that they're everywhere my million dollar idea there'd be mud show the movie right now if they hadn't diluted it like it's like but anyway um but it renaissance fairs are to me one those things where i can't think about them too hard because i'm just like how how is this a thing And how is this a thing that's like everywhere?
00:13:33
Speaker
Like how, like just there, like, and it it goes all summer. How does this happen? How did, how did this happen? Isn't it an American phenomenon? Like, do they have Renaissance fairs in England?
00:13:47
Speaker
i assume pockets of England are still just like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I mean, yeah. um Well, i <unk>ating to our international listeners, please tell us. I know I'm pretty sure in like, I think I read somewhere about like in in Germany, they have like ah like cowboys.
00:14:08
Speaker
fairs or something like that like where it's like an old western town so it's like kind of like like that and so that seems like fun imagine yeah think in romania like captain kirk and showing up at the western show Well, that's a great thing about Star Trek because they crossed over in so many eras in and genres that they can kind of justify appearing. And obviously they they're, you know, they just time travel and dimension travel.
00:14:38
Speaker
So justify they can justify going to any fair.
Civilization VI: Love-Hate Relationship
00:14:41
Speaker
Yeah. Justified Western. um Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
But yeah, you know, I ah i would probably enjoy, when was the last Renaissance Fair you went to, Grayson? And don't lie. I think it's been at least 10 years. I actually have on my bookshelf a little pewter statue of Beorn from The Hobbit that I bought at a Renaissance Fair.
00:15:07
Speaker
um And it's funny because it's they it's just a bear because Beorn in The Hobbit just turns into a big bear. So this is just a little pewter statue of a bear. And if you looked at it, you'd be like, well, that's that's a bear.
00:15:19
Speaker
not bayorn but i know and it was sold to me as i know it's bayorn and it was sold to me as bayorn so it must be bayorn you know what i almost bought at the renaissance fair ah there was a robe a robe and when i say almost i say i have a robe now no i have my own robe already thank you grayson uh but There was a person making hats while you wait.
00:15:43
Speaker
You just put in your hat order and you walk around the Renaissance Fair. And I really thought long and hard about getting the King Graham hat. They had the right of blue.
00:15:54
Speaker
There are a folding up Robin Hood style hats, um which could ah you know be ah precursor to our discussion later today. Do you want to a secret, Jess? All hats are made while you wait.
00:16:12
Speaker
You're getting bamboozled by one of those Renaissance for Hucksters.
00:16:19
Speaker
It's true. You got me there. um yeah but i resist. that I didn't buy King Graham hat. I wish I did. Well, you know, Oktoberfest is coming up here and they do sell at least at some of the Oktoberfests that I've been to in Chicago. bell There will be someone selling Alpine hats.
00:16:41
Speaker
on alp Is it an Alpine hat or is it a Robin Hood folded hat? Like I think of the King Graham hat as a Robin Hood. think of it as as the the Alpine. Oh, really? Grayson, can you break the tie here?
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, Grayson, can you break the tie? I think of it as both in exactly equal amounts. Okay, fair enough. and Like if Peter Pan went mountain climbing. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is easy for him, it just flies right up.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah. And speaking of ah Peter Pan, ah Jess, what have you been playing? Because ah playing video games is for children.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, I'll never grow Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Maybe it worked. Glad I've been playing. There you go. Beautiful seg. I've been playing Ben and Grayson a little bit of Civilization VI lately. I've fallen back into Civilization VI. And i have to tell you, I've come to a couple of harsh realizations as I've been playing Civilization VI.
00:17:43
Speaker
One, i am awful at civilization, and always have been. I mean, literally, this is precisely what I study and teach for a living.
00:17:55
Speaker
The conduct of foreign policy, war, diplomacy, all these sorts of things that are the backbone of Civ. You would think that I would at least be average at it, and I am not. Easiest difficulty setting,
00:18:09
Speaker
I'm a disaster. um Just bad at Civ. After having played every Civ since Civ 1 and played hundreds of hours of them, still bad at it. That's realization number one. Realization number two that I think has really hit home for me this week I'm not sure if I enjoy the game Civilization or if I merely feel compelled to play it. If the gameplay loop is so irresistible to me that I just suffer through like an entire Civilization start to finish, and at the end end I'm like, well, I guess I finished that. I don't think I like it, yet I've spent hundreds of hours on it.
00:18:48
Speaker
ah Gang, what should I do? By Civ 7? ah Well, I mean, you should probably wait a little bit on Civ 7 while they're, you know, because it's a release Civ.
00:19:01
Speaker
But I don't know. I love Civ 6. I think it's a great Civ. I mean, it's a wonderful Civ. I just don't, I mean, I think it stresses me out more than I'm having fun with it. I get so mad at it. Like when, barbarian. Are you playing on, like, an easy difficulty? Because that's what I do. I'm a big baby. I'm playing like, what's the thing up from Chieftain? Like Warlord or something? Yeah, that's my point.
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think I play the one up from Baby Mode. um And yeah, still, I don't know. Like, first of all, i'll only play one version of Civ, which is I'm going to win the scientific race. That's the only version. I've never played Domination in my life. i can't.
00:19:40
Speaker
I don't build armies. Usually I have like one archer defending every city in my empire up until like the year 2200 or something like that. i just, I think I need a new strategy. It's maybe where I'm at. I've only played one game of Civ since Civ I. don't stretch my wings and fly.
00:19:58
Speaker
Wait, you've only played one game of Sims? I've only ever tried one win condition. Oh, I see. I only ever played toward the scientific victory, which is like missing, I guess, three quarters of the game.
00:20:13
Speaker
Uh, well, uh, I've always had fun with a cultural victory and that's pretty straightforward to get. And yeah, I mean, you know, try out the other victories. Try a domination one.
00:20:26
Speaker
don't know. Like be one of the, the, that's not me. We're like, Sims. Just give it a try. I don't want to do that. Just give it a, don't want to be Mussolini. Just give it a taste. Just give it a whirl. Grayson thinks that's funny. Grayson knows what I'm talking about. I'm the same way Jess in that whenever I play Civ, I just can't bring myself to be... It's like playing ah it's like playing the Dark Side Path in an RPG. I can't bring myself to be like a a warfaring civilization. yeah I always go... i always try and do a cultural victory. Cultural cultural is fun too.
00:21:01
Speaker
Uh, or, oh, who, who are you playing as? Yes. I've been doing a lot of just random leaders. Uh, like, and try to play around whatever civilization bonuses, uh, that they give me. Um, I've enjoyed playing, uh, I've been setting up, like, some archipelago maps and playing as the Samoan civilization, which is kind of fun in Civ VI. They have all the seafaring bonuses and things like that.
00:21:29
Speaker
It's kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah, Samoa is good. Yeah. Well, you know, Jess, maybe you don't like Siv. I think I don't like Siv. That's why i can't piece together. Why have I spent hundreds of hours playing a game that maybe just doesn't work for me? You're stupid. Yeah, that could be it. I think here's the thing, is that, like, the Siv problem...
00:21:53
Speaker
is that it has such broad base of fans that all want something completely different out of it. And every new is trying to please all of them.
00:22:09
Speaker
And it always pleases none of them, but especially not Civ fans. And so it's...
00:22:22
Speaker
It is such a, like, because it's like, you know, as as as a baby Civ player myself that's played every Civ since three. i I'm Johnny Cam lightly over here. Yeah, that's true.
00:22:35
Speaker
um When I play, but i when I played, I always played on, like, you know, easy difficulty. And so it's like anyone whining about, like, the AI or something, I'm like...
00:22:48
Speaker
It's too hard. too hard for me. I'm a little baby. it Go ahead. As I say, do you think there are still anywhere out there? and do you think there's like a middle-aged, maybe a little older guy now who just still has... Because Civ is a franchise. where the Some people who play Civ only play Civ.
00:23:09
Speaker
Do you think there are still people out there who have in a den a Windows 98 PC and they just boot up Civ 3 to this day? Well, Civ 3, I think, I would i would say Civ 3 is the worst one.
00:23:22
Speaker
Civ 4 is probably, if you're going to if you're a Civ nerd, it's probably back to Civ 4. i think that's the one that, that I would say, if there's any sort of consensus, which there isn't, but if there is one, if you had like a poll of Civ fanatics,
00:23:45
Speaker
They were like the the forum. i I think that they are Civ. They're all like Civ 4 would be to them. The the high point.
00:23:55
Speaker
Tell me if I'm wrong. Anyone. QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com. That checks out. I mean, related story. I think 4 the most popular one. You imagine Grayson, this person with this old computer in their den.
00:24:09
Speaker
Semi-related. If we can jump from like Sid Meier to Will Wright. I was at work. earlier this week sitting in my office, you know, just doing my work, tapping on a keyboard, things like that.
00:24:20
Speaker
And someone knocked on my door. And yeah, normal work stuff. And someone from a ah different department had dropped by and knocked on the door, was like, hey, Jess, can I ask you a question? was like, sure.
00:24:32
Speaker
And this other professor said to me, I'm getting tenure this year, so I have a little more free time on my hands. You seemed like the kind of person who could tell me how I could play old SimCity games on a new computer.
00:24:48
Speaker
And it's just like, this is good. At the university, if you need to come to someone to figure out how to play You know what happens when you get You could play all the SimCities? That's right. You can do it. Yeah, you can do it. Do you know what this tenured professor, what's this person's SimCity?
00:25:07
Speaker
they want sim city 2000 oh yeah easy enough yeah that's what i said like oh you have so many options to choose from you're running not hard at all yeah for like six dollars you can be in business you're good you're good to go uh yeah no problem yeah like did you look at him and go like yeah okay It said like, if, if, uh, it said like SimCity 4, which is, you can get running.
00:25:37
Speaker
It's just like, i think it has like a lot of memory leaks and shit. Yeah. Uh, it's like kind of annoying to get running. Then it would, and like, SimCity 3000 again runs, but it like is, is one of those like kind of XP games. That's just kind of wonky.
00:25:53
Speaker
Gross. But 2000 and like classic, classic you know, SimCity base and SimCity 2000. Easy peasy.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's what I've been playing is Civ. Civ 6 Grayson. what What have you been playing? Oh, ah well, I would bring a little Zeitgeist Heat to the podcast.
00:26:17
Speaker
I'm playing the release as of today, Hollow Knight Silksong. love Burno Mars. Yeah, which are honestly, i don't even know if I can because it's I got a Metroidvania style game.
00:26:32
Speaker
So people get very sensitive about spoilers. And also, obviously, Silksong has been one very ah hotly anticipated for a long time. So I think the less said the better.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah. it Maybe the less said the better for any listeners who might be throwing their iPod across the room right now to avoid spoilers. Casting their pod across the room. And one listener who does listen to us on an iPod. Yeah. There you go.
00:26:57
Speaker
Grayson, don't make fun of our listeners, please. Yeah, how dare you. But it's it's a handsome game. We love them. It's a handsome game. It's ah it's a fun Metroidvania. You know? It's funny because I think Hollow Knight is this, at this point, almost storied franchise.
00:27:11
Speaker
but it And I'm going to say something that sounds belittling, but it's just a really good Metroidvania. Like, it's a very pretty, nicely done, it feels great, all those sort of things.
00:27:22
Speaker
And you're just like, it's it's it's not like this big, it's not like GTA 6. It's not like a huge, you know, Quinta boy. Yeah. You know, it's not like you you play it and there's this like trillion dollar cutscene that plays and there's a million people, well I guess there's a million people playing this on it's just a nice little, you know, quiet, you run around, you kill bugs, you find upgrades, it's good.
00:27:47
Speaker
Oh, that's a spoiler. I'm upset.
Gaming Highlights and Nostalgia
00:27:54
Speaker
know, i've I joined the crowd. I played a little bit of Peak recently, including, I believe, with Grayson. And did I play with you, Grayson? I don't even maybe not, actually. I don't remember. We have... How many should play? Maybe we'll play it after we're done recording the podcast. I'm busy playing so far.
00:28:16
Speaker
You want to play Peak? Come I'll play Peak. All right. What's Peak? Peak is a game where you climb a mountain and it's kind of... And you do a co-op and it's just like one of those things where it's like...
00:28:33
Speaker
and And this is something, Jess, like, I think the the three of us, you, me, and special guest Grayson, should stream, even though that's probably like everybody has done that recently.
00:28:48
Speaker
i think it's a game that we would enjoy because it's like kind of annoyingly hard amusing way. When you die, you become a like ah ah ghost. You're just climbing mountains and it's not easy.
00:29:04
Speaker
That's it. Have you ever played Jess any of the like, this was this was a whole thing for a while. the frank like What if you took a simple formal thing that's normally simple in a video game and then you made it like weird physics based like Octodad or Quap or whatever? like Probably the one I played, the closest to that would be Table Manners, where like, yeah, how do you manipulate your hands to do things like, you know, take a bite of food, and like the sort of game that feels like it was meant to be VR, but is actually being controlled by your... The peak absolutely feels... Okay. You're right on the money there.
00:29:38
Speaker
The peak looks and feels like a game that, like, should be in VR, but VR flopped, so it never will be. Like... Like it looks like a VR game.
00:29:53
Speaker
You know, I think Peak like has done very well and it's super zeitgeisty, but I think that if Peak came out in 2020, it would have been the biggest game ever made. It would have been six A's.
00:30:07
Speaker
Everyone have shat their pants summer 2020. They'd be like, fall guys, get out of the way. Who cares? We're all books adorable. Among Us was the other big 2020 release. Among Us, go to hell.
00:30:20
Speaker
Yeah, Among among Us. What was the other? I guess like all the jackboxes that everybody got into, like go fuck yourself. Like we all, but thank you.
00:30:32
Speaker
And then like laughing, we'd be sharing clips. Like it's, you know, people seem to like it now, but I think it kind of had its boom bust already. Like I'm not seeing as much of it around right now. So it's time for us to jump on board.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And yeah, it's good. Grayson, let's play peak after this. Okay, we're going to get on the long tail of peak content.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah. But I call him long tail Mussolini.
00:31:03
Speaker
ah Anyway, it's fun, you know? is fun. it's It's rare... to play it like it's it's just one of those like comedy games where it's like oh no it is it's actually very funny but yeah and that was the thing for me when I I heard people talk about it and like I like like our our group of the friends that all play games together and I saw like you all like being like oh do you want to play peak yeah oh you want to play peak later and I just thought it's like oh it's just another one of these like fucking games that we'll all play for a week and uh then we're done and
00:31:38
Speaker
I never particularly liked it. And then I played it and I was like, Oh, it's fun. It's pretty good. Uh, and, and of course, you know, the garbage game that we constantly went back to, that'd be golf with your friends. That game's dog shit.
00:31:52
Speaker
I'm just saying it. Just saying it. Wow. Team 17, go fuck yourself. That game sucks ass. Wow. You could, uh, worm yourself, uh, a good game.
00:32:05
Speaker
I don't know. Because they made worms. Mm-hmm. So that you turned that into a verb there? Trying to... A worm is a verb. Yeah, but i mean, not like that. I think it is.
00:32:19
Speaker
All right, well, we're almost at 40 minutes, so why not talk about whatever we're here? You know, I had the feeling that we hadn't had enough podcasts about Sierra games recently.
00:32:32
Speaker
ah Barely talked about them.
00:32:37
Speaker
We've been getting a lot of emails saying, when you guys want to talk about a Sierra game? And we just kept emailing back. It's like, you know, we'll get there. We promise. ah Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
It is. It's one of those things where we were starting out the podcast. I was like, and we're not going to just fucking talk about King's Quest every week. And here we are talking about King's Quest. No, we aren't. Oh, we're not. ha. Fooled you.
00:33:01
Speaker
Joke's on you Fooled you. and you haven't looked at the description for this episode yet, ah we And this whole time it was foreshadowing when i talked about a results fair, that whole part of the podcast yeah was a lie. I didn't go to a results fair. I'm not a nerd.
00:33:18
Speaker
just used mustache. I was all set up so we could talk about the 1991 point and click adventure game. Sierra's own conquests of Camelot.
00:33:31
Speaker
This is, ah I was in in getting ready ah for this podcast. I was reading ah the, ah rereading the the digital antiquarian. I was reading Jimmy on ah Conquest of the Longbow.
00:33:44
Speaker
game that he likes. Shout out to Jimmy. Okay. um he He likes that. i And. um Did Jess say Conquest of Camelot? Did I? Yeah, you did actually. I did. You said Conquest of Camelot. Walk that back. Walk that back. Conquest of the Longbow.
00:34:01
Speaker
Of the Longbow. Should we get that again? Yeah, let's take it again. i promise I'll edit all this. yeah conquest of the longbow see that was again another feint to trick our listener uh if they read the title and we're like i know exactly where this podcast is heading yeah gotcha we juked them we juked them but uh but but jimmy points out he's like uh uh it was like con like conquest of camelot conquest of the longbow and next to the colonel's bequest as like the most tortured attempt to fit quest into the title of the game like in order to to keep the like the the brand going.
Christy Marks and Sierra Games Legacy
00:34:45
Speaker
Conquest, especially once you get to Conquest of the Longbow, then it just becomes like extremely nonsensical. Like Conquest of Camelot itself yeah doesn't quite make sense as a title, but it's like, i right, fine, I guess.
00:35:01
Speaker
And then and he's got some Crusader vibes going on there, you know, not problematic, but yeah um but but Conquest of the Longbow. like that i i i don't know he also just wheels the quarter staff a lot in the game as well it just yeah smacks people over the head yeah maybe the conquest is a maid marion's heart sure ah all right but yeah we're talking about conquest of the longbow uh 1991 uh designed by christy marks
00:35:35
Speaker
um huge christy marks fan i have to say i was the kid who picked up interaction magazine and when i first learned that she was joining sierra i was like i love christy marks i love jim and the holograms jim the holograms as a kid was my favorite anime uh could have watched it uh just all day long are you guys jim are we retroactively making jim and the holograms an anime now is that what's happening but daughter calls all cartoons, anime, start doing that too. I don't know. Are we just like, we hereby declare jamming the holograms is an anime. That's like that bit where people call King of the Hill on the anime.
00:36:17
Speaker
Uh, yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
I was, I think I'm slightly too young. Yeah. figure To think a lot of what she was known for as a TV writer. Yeah. It was fabulous. I mean, it was a higher quality than average television show to sell dolls to kids. You know what I mean?
00:36:37
Speaker
In the same way that transformers and GI Joe were a little better than most of the toy selling. Did you recognize her name? Like, were you like, Ben, do you think I watched cartoons and didn't pay attention to the credits to know who was creating these works that entertain me so much? Yeah, see, when grace so was a special kid when Grayson and i were were were children, ah we knew the the guy behind all of the high quality cartoons. And that was Steven Spielberg.
00:37:07
Speaker
isn he put his name but on steven spielberg's tiny toot adventures steven spielberg's animaniac knew he was the one doing those animation cells and that's a stamp of quality whether it's tiny toot adventures or whether it's boom blocks i a yeah in how like a boom blocks reference especially referencing that that was steven spielberg's idea is like just one of those like layup easy jokes oh yeah steven spielberg uh had an idea for a wii game it's just a funny thing and you want to know what boom blocks
00:37:48
Speaker
Pretty good. Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah. You know, bet I, you know what? I could fuck up some boom blocks right now. Yeah. i mean, if you want to play, uh, boom blocks, just go to your local retro gaming store.
00:37:59
Speaker
And they currently have about 80 copies of it. Seen on the shelf. Uh, if you'd like to pick probably for about six 99, if I had to take a guess, just, uh, just go grab a copy of it now. Maybe I'll go into my little storage, uh, unit and find my,
00:38:15
Speaker
you know my we and my boom blocks have a good old 20 minutes but yeah now i was excited for this like and i have to say i think for me something that love about both conquest of the longbow and its predecessor conquest of camelot is i think christy marks coming from this background as a television writer really approaches the adventure game genre from a slightly different angle. Like I feel like it's very story forward. feel like the kind of puzzles you find aren't the traditional inventory puzzles that typically make up so much of this genre.
00:38:54
Speaker
And I think that's what makes both of these for me stand out in such an enjoyable way. mean, they're very copy protection heavy. I mean, Longbow has so many different copy protection. Camelot is all copy protection. But I'll say this about about the copy of protection. One, was going to say, I don't think I mean, you're you're streaming it right now, Jess.
00:39:12
Speaker
I don't think Longbow even really has much in the way of... invent like trick like has very few inventory puzzles. Right. But a thing I like about this game is... but i was say a thing i like about this game is ah And a reason I'm on this podcast, even though I normally have an exclusive Jim Walls must be discussed writer in my contract is ah Ben and I and our co-host Sarah have streamed this three times.
00:39:41
Speaker
I think you and I have streamed it three times. yeah You, me, and Sarah have streamed it twice. Which is just to say that... Probably streamed another time. Like, i we'll do it again. Yeah, which is just to say that, like, it's ah it's ah it's a real delight, and it's it it is a game that, like, obviously we we think it rewards even multiple playthroughs, right? But I think with the copy protection, I think that's a good example of the game kind of really...
00:40:08
Speaker
embracing this like ah the the these things and trying to make them fun and interesting in the context of the game because like all the copy protection yeah you're referencing a manual but it's like you're almost referencing the manual like it is a reference piece like there's like heraldry you're referencing and like there's the hand puzzle and stuff and i feel like if you're a kid or a dorky adult that stuff's very exciting Oh, yeah. I mean, you you said it's like reference material. i actually wrote a paper in like 10th grade English about Robin Hood and cited this manual because it had references to like it has a biography.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. um And yeah, this is this is fast. I mean, it definitely tapped into my nerdy kids stuff like I memorized the hand code. thinking someday i could use it to like clandestinely communicate with someone else you'll never find did you try to like get your friend like a friend oh yeah absolutely yeah i tried to i tried to like rope he was like if you learn this hand code too we'll be unstoppable no no teacher can ever detect uh all of the all the great things it's taking us several minutes to say to each other and nobody's doing that nobody's like yeah jess i'll study that video game instruction manual real hard tonight and And I'm like, but know don't you think it would be fun? And I'm like pointing to different knuckles on my palm and stuff and just like, wouldn't this be great? And they're like, no, no, of course not.
00:41:35
Speaker
I, I, you know, I, I think, yeah, the, a criticism I have of lot of adventure games is that they are obviously not written by people with perhaps much of a writing background and that causes a lot of problems i and then you play something like Camelot and Longbow and
00:42:10
Speaker
and and can't like I know you like Camelot a lot more than than me. And and to be clear here, I find Camelot very charming. I just don't enjoy it very much as a game.
00:42:23
Speaker
um But like Longbow especially, i think what... Like, not only is the the writing really good in it, and that's also true in in Camelot, because I love that all the descriptions in Camelot are... The Lord.
00:42:39
Speaker
Well, they're they're from... It's the voice of Merlin who's watching you as you play, which I think is a really fun device. Yeah. But... in In Longbow, the fun thing is that it has this ensemble ah cast as as it would.
00:42:56
Speaker
Like if you're playing a Robin Hood game, you have to have the Merry Men. And so in ah Conquest of the Longbow, which takes place over like ah like what? Like a dozen days around there, right? Yeah, roughly, yeah.
00:43:12
Speaker
i Like, you know, each day you you start out and you talk to whichever merry men are still hanging out at the camp. um And like you chat with them. And then ah then at the end of the day, you chat again with them. And then also the, like, if you die, the like your death screen is them discussing your death.
00:43:36
Speaker
right It is, it's just a very like, I what I maybe the Sierra game before this that had such a like kind of rich ensemble that I could think of is ah the Colonel's Bequest.
00:43:57
Speaker
and Yeah. Like another like, you know, because that's a ah big like kind of Agatha Christie whodunit mystery. You have to have like a very well fleshed out cast for that. And like this just has like this, this great cast and like all the writing for all them like she she has like a good sense of voice uh yes and also like you know Grayson said that the manual has a bibliography like you can tell this is and this again, this is true of Camelot. Like this is, this is shit she cares about. Like she's one of those people that like loves Arthurian, you know, legend and loves like Robin Hood stuff.
00:44:41
Speaker
And like, you could tell that a lot of thought and care went into ah the storytelling of ah the, the game. And of course, like,
00:44:53
Speaker
you know, I know Christy Marks because she wrote a terrible episode of Babylon five about the Holy grail. So it's like, this is something i that, uh, you know, like she's, she's, you know, one of those people that just loves that shit.
00:45:07
Speaker
You know, I think that's a very like late eighties, early nineties nerd thing. Right. Oh yeah. to be I had a college professor. ah do you We won't shock you to learn that took a class on Arthurian literature in college.
00:45:20
Speaker
Um, chuck and, and, and it it was funny because i had ah i had a professor who was of of that age where it just like there was a period of time where people just loved to adapt that stuff into either literally like a doing Arthurian adaptations or, or trying to find like modern, like modern ways to adapt it. ah And it was, it was definitely a big fad for a while. Like it was a big literary, like literature, novels, TV movies, all that stuff.
Arthurian Legends and Folklore Trends
00:45:52
Speaker
it Yeah, now I'm just kind of thinking, like, you know, that's just a a type of, like, does that type of nerd still has to be around? Oh, yeah. Like, but are are young nerds or even nerds like, you know, ah like in their 30s and 40s, are they...
00:46:11
Speaker
are they and i like Is this a nerd that's going extinct? Is this a ner ned is this a nerd that's going extinct? Or like, yeah, because i I don't know if that's as big a nerd thing as it was. ah i think i have I have a so ah a shot in the dark here of where I think it is, which is i think those nerds still do exist, but there's ah a little bit more of a worldliness to them where, ah not to reference an unpleasant man, but
00:46:46
Speaker
Neil Gaiman's American Gods was kind of like a synthesis of a bunch of different folklore. um Or just going to place just non-Western mythology. Like there was a novel a few years back called... ah I had to look this up because I...
00:47:02
Speaker
i had I always mix these words up in the title of Black Leopard, Red Wolf, by a writer named Marlon James, um which is all African mythology kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. Very good novel. Very good novel.
00:47:13
Speaker
um But I think the... I will say the... most And there was somewhat recently there was... say recently. This was like 20 years ago. ah uh jonathan strange and mr norrell which was another kind of british folklore mixed with the jane because jane austen has a sort of resurgence now so i think these nerds exist now but there's a sort of contemporary twang to what they're doing either they're remixing all this stuff with other media or they're looking into other countries and traditions you know for stuff
00:47:47
Speaker
Grayson, that's making me think about ah ah if youve if you've read ah Black Sun by Rebecca Roanhorse. I have not. um Which is, that's the first book of a trilogy. I haven't read the other two, but I did read that first one. I enjoyed it.
00:48:03
Speaker
um And that is like a a recent fantasy novel. the The first one came out in 2020. And that is like kind of, I believe, uh, it's, it's, you know, inspired by like South and Central American, like folklore and, and stuff like, uh,
00:48:25
Speaker
Like I'm looking here. Roanhorse, this is Wikipedia, of course. Roanhorse researched Southeast Asian, Native American, Mesoamerican civilizations while writing Blackstone. There's another another popular series. and and And this is, again, I think an example of of kind of these these kind of nerds having a sort of and They still have the folklore interest, but there's more there they intersect with different things.
00:48:49
Speaker
is There's an author, her name is, and I don't know if i have the name right, but it's S.A. Chakraborty, and she writes these like roman romance genie stories that are very much based on like Middle Eastern and sort of Arabian myth, um and they're very popular sort of romance fantasies And ah I think that's another example of just like the the the lens has widened a little bit. So it's not just English folklore.
00:49:20
Speaker
So you're saying that we couldn't have like a Henry Jones senior today with his own grail diary. No, we'd have an uncharted starring Mr. Spider-Man instead. which It would be him.
00:49:34
Speaker
I don't know what that movie has a scene where they get into a fight in a dominoes, I think. And Mark Wahlberg is on the phone and he says, I'm in a dominoes right now. ah But it's, that's sorry. ah that's That's what we have today. That's what we have today.
00:49:50
Speaker
Wow. That's our modern mythology. It is Mark Wahlberg and a Domino's. 20 years ago, we had Henry Jones Sr. Yeah. Drill Diary.
00:50:03
Speaker
Charlemagne, Umbrella, the whole thing. Yeah. We just had Mark Wahlberg and a Domino's. But I do think, though, I think to go back to your original kind of thought, Ben, if this is where you were going with it, I do think the idea of like,
00:50:18
Speaker
being a nerd who's interested specifically in like Arthur and the grail, that's like maybe a little passe now. Like that's a very normie mythology to be into. Yeah. I just don't, I don't think, uh, and, and if you know, and, and quest quest podcast at gmail.com, if you like, are you,
00:50:37
Speaker
a ah ah a young or young at heart nerd that loves Arthurian legend I still do I thought the Green Knight was an excellent oh I mean the Green Knight that movie picked ass Dev Patel what a hunk oh my god he is alicia vicaner very also a hunk there's two hunks and uh it has pretty graphic imagery though don't show it to your children yeah All right, well, that's ah the Grayson capsule review for the Green Knight. There you have it. I mean, as I said at the top of this, we're talking about Conquests of Camelot. ah but All right.
00:51:18
Speaker
But so there there's a couple there's a couple things that really ah distinguish Longbow. Yeah. ah One of which is that, ah kind of like, certainly not the first game to do this, but it's very novel for a game, like an adventure game in 91.
00:51:41
Speaker
and certainly one of the most flexible games versions of this is that it's a it's a game that has a little bit flex in like how you can play it how you can be Robin Hood and how that affects the ending because it has a bunch of different endings right i mean you're you're accumulating merry men and ransom money along the way depending on how you solve various uh problems that robin's con confronted with the solutions to those puzzles send you down different paths that can lead to characters living or dying characters living happily ever after together um especially for a sierra game at this time i mean sierra
00:52:23
Speaker
would occasionally throw in like multiple solutions to a puzzle. But the idea of having different paths toward significantly different endings was something that Sierra hadn't played with much to this point and really throughout its run didn't play with very much. I mean, King's Quest six, I guess has two different paths at the end, but nothing quite like this.
00:52:46
Speaker
I think to me, this is one of the qualities of the And to be clear, we talked a little bit about like this kind of interest specifically in this mythology being a little, uh, uh, pass uh, we all love this game, right?
Conquests of the Longbow: Gameplay and Humor
00:52:58
Speaker
This is not, this is not excellent, excellent game. Right.
00:53:02
Speaker
So, um, uh, I think the, the multiple endings thing, and there's, there's obviously like kind of one or two, most like, kate like good best endings. Yeah.
00:53:12
Speaker
But there's a fairly big spectrum. And I think the multiple endings thing is a kind of very modern feeling quality of life thing. And this is what one one reason I love the game so much is like, of all the Sierra games, I think this is the one i would most recommend to a random person today who's like, hey, I'm interested in playing one of these point and clicks.
00:53:34
Speaker
what's What's a good one? And I'd be like, the one I can recommend you with the least preamble is Conquest of the Longbow. You can get through it. It's fun.
00:53:44
Speaker
you can kind of finish. Whether you play it once or a couple of times or try and get a good ending, like you'll get to an end eventually. ah it's it's it's think And the bad endings are kind of served up almost as kind of gag endings. Some of them have kind of a darkness to them, right?
00:54:04
Speaker
like There's one where I think Robin is hanged, but like Oh yeah. Yeah. There's some, there's some, I mean, we can talk about this later. There's some pretty gruesome stuff that happens in this game, but I think you could, you could just play it through start to finish and you're going to, and like you at least get the full playthrough. Right. And I think that's a more contemporary feeling in an adventure game, as opposed to a lot of older adventure games, which there's one ending or they just constantly throw Roblox at you.
00:54:33
Speaker
i I could tell you that. So we got Conquest the Longbow when I was a kid. it was in a package of ah like this like Sierra pack. It came with ah Hoyle ah board games, Longbow, Johnny Castaway. Uh-huh.
00:54:58
Speaker
And I think that might have been it. There might have been one other thing, but I don't remember. But Longbows, obviously, i mean, i don't know Giant Castaway still great. And... i And Hoyle Book of Games I still play to this day. Yeah, that's great. Great title. Honestly... It's like a real family fun pack.
00:55:18
Speaker
Congratulations. You did it. Banger of a collection there. um But anyway, i so i we we we play that at the time.
00:55:28
Speaker
ah And I remember. And what what's so funny about this game, too, is that as much as I love it, it is like a very finicky game, which is really funny.
00:55:42
Speaker
i I remember because I was just watching my older brother play it mostly. um Like having difficulty ah saving Marion, like because you have to run through this hedge maze and like you're on a clock and the game keeps going.
00:56:04
Speaker
if Because Marion is being burnt at the stake. And so you have to First off, you have to ah figure out a good way to ah distract.
00:56:15
Speaker
Like, you you have, like, this... menu of options of how ah the merry men should distract the sheriff's, you know, men.
00:56:27
Speaker
And then and then you have to run through the this, like, hedge maze ah to ah give Marion, what is it, like a a magic ring that protects her from fire? Mm-hmm.
00:56:40
Speaker
And, but you have like, I don't know, like five minutes, like you have to do this. And, um and I remember on our playthrough, ah first playthrough of it, i it didn't happen.
00:56:54
Speaker
Marion died and we just kept playing. and I just remember like making it to the end. And then just being like, huh, I guess Marion died. And my brother being like, no, i i really think we could save her.
00:57:08
Speaker
And I remember thinking because I would just like this concept of multiple end, like I just didn't think of it. I was just like, no, I guess she just died. Sometimes that happens. Like I think she died. Like I just don't think you could save her if she died. This is this is a dangerous gig being a forest priestess and an outlaw.
00:57:26
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Jess. I was just saying sometimes it doesn't end with with a happy ending. I will say, as part of my ah extensive research for this episode, I went and I ah YouTubed ah all the death scenes in the game, all the death screens. Oh, man.
00:57:44
Speaker
Which is always obviously a funny thing in any Sierra game. And I'll say, one another thing I like about this game a lot is I think it has among... I think it has... like Christy Marks has a really great sense of why death screens are fun.
00:57:58
Speaker
And there's a lot of really great deaths in this game. And a lot of them are like tee-ups. Like, you know they're not going to end well, right? They're they're almost good gags for you, right? Like, much as very funny plan to let loose wild boars in the road um to distract somebody. Just funny do. um But if you let Marion die, you can go back to the cobbler and deliver the news.
00:58:21
Speaker
And he gets so enraged that you let Marion die that he but he beats you to death with a hammer. LAUGHTER
00:58:29
Speaker
I've never seen that. i Lob? Lob the Cobbler? Lob the Cobbler. And then you're Merry Men. to have a like like Ben was saying, you're Merry Men. A little recap.
00:58:39
Speaker
And then it just says, like, yeah, that dude beat the shit out of Robin Hood.
00:58:46
Speaker
now So now I'm wondering because, ah you know, ah Josh, when we spoke to him both on this podcast and then ah later on that stream, spoke extremely highly of Christy Marks.
00:59:02
Speaker
ah if if you recall. Yes. really held her in high regard, and now I'm wondering if he kind of, like, because Freddy Farkas has those death scenes, too, because Freddy Farkas has, like, the guy narrating you into a death, right?
00:59:19
Speaker
Like, it has the old, like, coot that's telling the story Freddy Farkas, and then, and that has some of my favorite jokes, ah is when the old coot, like, explains how Freddy Farkas died,
00:59:33
Speaker
And so I wonder if if that was like a thing. You saw that in ah Robin Hood and said, oh, I could do that, but make it like like just broadly funny since this is a comedy game. Yeah. I think it's a really good example, too You know, as much as people like to rag on the idea of deaths in adventure games and, you know, LucasArts really made a point of abandoning deaths. I think that Longboat is a really strong example of how these can be used well, both to add...
01:00:02
Speaker
like more enjoyable content of the game. And by way of these recaps, the merry men given everything. And oftentimes, you know, in the case of longbow, it does what a death should do, which is hopefully at least nudge the player in the direction of this is what you did wrong. And maybe this is what you should try next time around. It's not just a, Hey, you randomly died because you stepped in the wrong place. It's a feedback opportunity. Right.
01:00:30
Speaker
Right. I think I'll go ahead, Jess. was just saying, when used well, I think death and adventure games is actually nice part of the genre. I think, too, I think that's true.
01:00:43
Speaker
And also, with Robin Hood specifically as a protagonist, there's such a cultural awareness of what that story is kind of supposed to be and how he's supposed to act. when...
01:00:56
Speaker
so when most I would say, i mean, I'm speculating here, but I feel like most of the, like, death screen, some of the death screens are just, you didn't, you don't die. Robin Hood just did something so egregiously non-heroic that the game just kind of ends.
01:01:12
Speaker
ah Or he's beat to death with a shoe. With a shoe hammer. Beats a man with a shoe. But that's for failing to save Marion, right? Like, and so I think,
01:01:23
Speaker
But you could beat the game and let Marion die. we don't Don't tell Lob. Don't tell Lob. We just didn't go back and tell him.
01:01:34
Speaker
To this guy we met one time. yeah but I gotta report this back to Lob. Whenever you die in that game, it's just like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Of course, rob like Robin Hood would fail if he did that. right So I think it's both it it both has the game design purpose of being of the feedback, it has a kind of thematic purpose, right? And then it just has like the Christy Marks, like punchiness of it, of just being like funny or shocking or just like a good beat, you know? Yeah,
01:02:01
Speaker
yeah I, you know, it's, it's a lot of fun. Like, you know, and and i'm I'm pretty sure I've said this, like, it you know, a lot of the fun for me playing an adventure game is inhabiting a world.
01:02:16
Speaker
And it's such a richly developed world. I mean, the we got to talk about at least for a second. I wrote I wrote a phrase down. The vocabulary in the game is so funny. Oh, yeah. With it.
01:02:27
Speaker
Ben and I and and Sarah, we, I mean, the phrase aroint was immediately just, just screamed at us. Locked in her head. But I was watching Jess play and he was talking, there's a scene where he's talking to an abbot.
01:02:39
Speaker
And at one point, I think an abbot kind of like snaps at, ah in ah in a piece of dialogue and he says enough adultated questions. And I'm like, what the fuck does adultated mean?
01:02:50
Speaker
Like, and there's a lot of really obvious, like, so obviously the research was done because there's a lot of very fun, vocabulary thrown in that is i mean i think i speak we're all the kind of nerds who are kind of marks for this of just sort of like really great little sprinkling of just period vocabulary and i'm a mark i'm a mark for marks but That's exactly right.
01:03:14
Speaker
And I mean, and a lot of it's pretty body humor yeah also, which is sort of fun. This is this is a game with a little bit filthier sense of humor than the average non leisure suit Larry. sorry I mean, it's it's pretty much just straight up said that all of the, uh, the evil monks are having sex with each other. yeah This big evil homosexual call.
01:03:39
Speaker
We talked about this a little bit on the fleece quest episode, but I, I didn't play this game as a kid. Do either of you have a memory of playing this as a kid? And did you have any, cause it is a, it's a body game. Uh, it's a pretty violent game.
01:03:50
Speaker
Um, it gets away with it a lot cause it's cartoony and funny and like, and a lot of stuff happens kind of off screen or and implied, but like, do either of you have a memory of like, oh, this game feels a little like PG-13?
01:04:02
Speaker
No, I did not get that sense. And I think part of it was that like Robin Hood is just kind of ingrained. Like you just kind of know Robin Hood story. And so that there's like this violence that he has this like romance with Marion and and all of that.
01:04:21
Speaker
And that Friar Tuck spanks the sheriff of Godicum, which is, that's Friar Tuck's thing. But you can also see normal, like your memory is that it was just like, yeah, this is the Robin Hood story. Yeah.
01:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, it it and and and this is coming from someone that was scared by a lot of adventure games. I was very easily scared, but like nothing about like this game, like maybe the Fens, because they were very mysterious.
01:04:47
Speaker
Yes. um Like that, that probably spooked me a little bit. But I don't think this was one that really straight up scared That's interesting. yeah I think I would agree. Like, I, I don't think at the time I realized that this was slightly more mature and not just in the sense that it's all body and it's a little graphic at times. I mean, just sort of a more mature writing, a more mature approach to storytelling as well.
01:05:13
Speaker
I think for me, it, I would kind of agree with that.
Robin Hood's Cultural Impact
01:05:16
Speaker
mean, this is right around the time like Robin Hood Prince of Thieves is hitting theaters, you know, sort of Robin Hood stuff is very much in the zeitgeist of the moment. And yeah, I think that because of that, I was just sort of like ready for a Robin Hood story. I mean, I was I was rip roaring and ready to go with this thing came out.
01:05:35
Speaker
According to, ah like, so I've i've got the antiquarian open here. i Quote, in commercial terms as well, Christie Marks' the second game was surprisingly successful even in the face of such competition.
01:05:51
Speaker
The issue of of Sears' official magazine, Interaction, ah dating from the spring of 1992, has it as the company's biggest current seller edging out Police Quest 3, Leisure Suit Larry 5, King's Quest 5. Its commercial performance was undoubtedly helped greatly by a fortuitous coincidence. The second biggest cinematic but blockbuster of 1991 was Robin Hood, Prince Thieves.
01:06:16
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that was a big movie. I went to drive-in to see that and and kissed a girl full on the lips. Whoa! it was Yeah, I mean, this is ah this is a pretty big like cultural touchstone for a lot of people. Is that a good movie?
01:06:30
Speaker
Should I see it? I mean, it's exactly what you'd expect a Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie made in 1991 to be. I'll say this. You should watch. I think you're going to watch a Robin Hood movie today, that's that's ah if you're going to go out your way to watch Errol Flynn.
01:06:49
Speaker
Those are those are fun. and Or just watch the Disney one. The Disney one's really good. Yes. Disney one's right where it's at. How do we feel about men in tights? Terrible. Honestly. Yeah, I mean... Well, I'll say, I'm i'm i'm a little bit of a Mel Brooks hater to begin with.
01:07:02
Speaker
i didn't grow up well I did grow up watching that a lot as a kid. ah it was yeah i think i think it was it was just constantly on cable in the 90s. It was inescapable. And so I... To to me, Abe Lincoln. i That still makes me laugh. i am a lincoln I haven't seen it in a very long time, and and I'm sure...
01:07:26
Speaker
that I probably wouldn't like it. But the thing is, is that I wouldn't like it, but it would also be very comforting. You know? couple of years ago,
01:07:37
Speaker
um our neighbors, uh, and we We were doing like a back and forth movie night with our daughters together. how We have daughters, they're the same age.
01:07:48
Speaker
And like we did like Goonies one time and then it's like, what's going our next movie? And somehow Robin Hood men in tights came up as like, wouldn't this be fun and funny to show some kids?
01:07:59
Speaker
And I think we had tapped out by like eight minutes into the film, like Okay, yeah, theres there is there are a lot of moments in here that are going to require explanation or just me like burying my face in my hands and I had to... have a lot of Mel Brooks sex jokes.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of Mel Brooks stuff that's going require some kind Grayson, you're Mel Brooks hater. Tell me more about that. I won't belabor it. i won't belabor You don't like 2,000-year-old man? i he like the just real man I don't like Life Stinks.
01:08:30
Speaker
ah Wow. These big ones. yeah um I just think and I'll all cop to um I didn't grow up with any of them and so maybe I just don't have the right never had the right brain synapses fire to like have that part of my sense of humor.
01:08:48
Speaker
Cause like, I don't, I don't particularly care for even like young Frankenstein. I don't hate young Frankenstein. Right. How about the producers? How do you feel? musics I do quite, i do enjoy the producers. Yeah.
01:08:58
Speaker
Yeah. um I just like i I say hater but like I think I just never developed whatever part of your brain responds to his specific like pattern and rhythm ah because it's obviously like he's obviously a man with a lot of talent he works with a lot of talented comedians obviously the grace and backeddal he also had an incredible son that gave us World War Z yeah yeah ah this i grab I am a little bit because i it's it's not like a ah someone who I think it reflects poorly on you if you like Mel Brooks, ah but I just have never, i just never, never got it.
01:09:34
Speaker
You heard her first. Grayson doesn't respect Mel Brooks. How are you, Ben? I'll be glad when he dies. Wow. You know, Grayson, you really can't say that because it's like in there's there's not even a week between us like recording this and releasing this, but it's like he's 99 years old. he's go to live He's going to live at least until Spaceballs 2 comes out.
01:09:58
Speaker
What if he died the day before Spaceballs 2 came out? Well, you put that out there, not me. Wow. He's turned dark. I mean, he' he he's not a young... He is unbelievably old. like Yeah, he's quite old.
01:10:16
Speaker
I hope he doesn't hear this. And yeah ah so it's just like we can't make jokes like that because it's just, you know... you know did abel brooks Do you think Mel Brooks would like that kind of humor? I think he would.
01:10:34
Speaker
well, ah the you don't ah ah understand and appreciate. That's what I'm asking too. You're not as deep a Mel Brooks head as I am. You've never watched an episode of When Things Were Rotten. didn't even know that is. Have you ever seen his Western comedy Blazing Saddles?
01:10:53
Speaker
uh i do remember watching that in the back of a car in a road trip we we set up like a road trip tv we set up like a road trip tv this was this must have been right before everyone just had a phone that you would gladly you watch it movie on um we set up like an old-fashioned road trip tv like like a like we we use some kind of cage for it and we put it up um and we watched tv cage yeah yeah but We watched Blazing Saddles.
01:11:19
Speaker
And I, you know what? I i remember ah as far as movies I've watched on a very long road trip in the back of a car, remember liking it. um When the Saints for Robin was ah his shortwave TV show about ah Robin Hood.
01:11:36
Speaker
And he adapted many of his jokes into that fabulous movie. Men in Tights. So there you go. Uh, anyway, some other things that, uh, are great ah about conquest the longbow.
01:11:51
Speaker
Uh, well, you know what, actually let's, let's hit some of this stuff that is kind of, you know, weird about it. It's, it's funny. Like, i if If you're going to make a Robin Hood adventure, you have to have him shoot you know a bow and arrow.
01:12:09
Speaker
And if you're going to have him shoot bow and arrow, like it's got to be a minigame. You've got to have ah bow and arrow minigame. Now, fortunately, and this is improvement Conquest of Camelot,
01:12:26
Speaker
You could just straight up like turn that off and like you just click on something with your bow and it's just like, wow, perfect. Um, just like the real Robin Hood, he wouldn't have to work very hard to shoot a great shot. It would just happen.
01:12:39
Speaker
Like, and then like, there's, there's a combat with the quarter staff, but of course, uh, which you could also just like, you know, turn all the way down and easy peasy.
01:12:50
Speaker
But then there's a thing that you just dreamed, you know, just last night, Jess, uh, uh, comically, ah it it forces you to play a board game, which is very funny.
01:13:03
Speaker
And i'm mensmo an obscure board, as far as I'm aware, obscure board game. yeah Not a lot of kids grow up learning how to play Nightman's Morris. Jess, was it you or someone else? Like, I remember one of the times that we were playing...
01:13:16
Speaker
ah robin hood on the like when we were playing longbow on the stream and uh got to the nine man morris uh section somebody in chat it might have been you jess was like this was a thing that they really pushed with oh yeah this was a really exciting thing that it came with this game if i recall correctly eight but on the box itself came with a rolled up nine man's board you could play it it's ah it's ah it's a screenshot on the back of the box
01:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. It's like a whole Hoyles game built into your adventure game. I mean, yeah, this was like a big selling It's like we have created maybe the first computer adaptation of Nine Men's Morris. It says, yeah, test your wits on an authentic medieval board game, Nine Men's Morris.
01:14:10
Speaker
and And here's the thing. So... Like you had trouble with it last night, Jess, when I was watching. Shockingly. And when like the first, the first two times we streamed it, I just like, you can, if you have the difficulty set to zero, the, the CPU, ah like opponent follows the exact same pattern every single time. So you can just like cheese it. If you follow like a very exacting walkthrough,
01:14:41
Speaker
But i think the last time... You beat it. You beat it. That's what I'm saying. The last time we played it, I beat it. And then also at the end of it, I was like, you know what? Fun game.
01:14:54
Speaker
yeah like It finally got... Like, I was playing it. I was like, you know what? I get it. I can't find it why they were so proud of this. Yeah, I mean, as a kid, that's what I had to do. i wasn't going to, like, find patterns or, you know, it's like, eventually I just had to figure out how 9 Men's Morris worked and just win a game of 9 Men's Morris. I will say, as a kid, was very satisfying. Like, um it probably took me several times tries to do this, and when I finally did it correctly, it's like, ah, I did it. 9 Men's Morris. It's an actual non-like...
01:15:26
Speaker
This is not a fair comparison, but it's not like when you finally beat the dice game in Codename Iceman and you want to throw your computer out the window, right? It's like, that's pure horseshit. Whereas this is just like a regular board game with like rules you can learn and get better at.
01:15:41
Speaker
but You know, it's it's there's like, am I playing Nightman's Morris every weekend now? No, but it's not the word, you know. For a minigame and a video game, you could do a lot worse.
01:15:53
Speaker
Grayson, when you go to like tabletop conventions, do you see a lot of people playing 9-man's Morris? Um, you know... I should start to see if I, now that's making me wonder if at like Gen Con, are there like rooms for like weirdos who only play like authentic, like 12th century board games? Why didn't I show to the Ren Faire with Matt? Yeah, I was just about to say that, Jess, you could show up to the Ren Faire dressed up as the captain from the start of Generations played by ah Cameron.
01:16:29
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes, yes. Like ah the the the the captain of, ah like the the shitty captain that Kirk pushes out of his chair and goes like, yeah let me take care of this whole Nexus situation.
01:16:42
Speaker
ah you You should show up in that cosplay. He's wearing a maroon ah uniform, right? like that's Yeah, I think it's like the two point it's like the cheaper ones that are yeah or a redder. They never got those uniforms right.
01:16:57
Speaker
yeah yeah it was like the good t-walk uniforms yeah can i can i bring up what i i think is is the weirdest thing about the game what is the weirdest thing you think about nine man's morris grayson not about nine man's morris but conquest of the longbow conquest of the longbow i think uh i genuinely bring this up because i don't know how i feel about it but the protagonist is Robin Hood and he's like kind of a turd in the game.
01:17:24
Speaker
That's what's great about He is. Like he's yeah i love very mean and he's constantly stealing clothes from beggars. Constantly. Can't get enough. Beggars and... But they always say...
01:17:37
Speaker
But he gave me a great change of clothes. Yeah. It's very funny because I think obviously there's like, you know, Robin Hood ah is a is a is a kind of a scoundrel and he's a trickster. and trick yeah but um But in a lot of representations, it's like, well, he's hot and and ah very clever and funny and quippy and all that sort of thing. So he kind of gets away with it.
01:17:59
Speaker
ah I don't think the Robin Hood in this game is like particularly funny. But i also, I don't think it's not it's not like he's trying to be and he's failing to be. i think it's really... I would be curious to hear what the Christy Marks you know, oral history of this character is like, what was she shooting for? Cause I think it achieves something. There's a definite feeling you have about this character.
01:18:22
Speaker
He has a weird vibe. Like, you know, so much of the game is, know, you start off your day, you go to Watling street overlook and you see who's coming down the street that day. So you can usually go and steal their clothes from them. Like is this game making fun of Robin hood?
01:18:36
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's a little hostile. I hook go down there and you'll be like, why don't you give me that clothes beggar? And the beggar says, no, I'd prefer not to. And then Robin will just like rather than some sort of clever quip, a lot of times it'll be like, I could just simply beat the shit out of you And the beggar's like, I wish you wouldn't, my lord. like is it is it Is it making fun of Robin? Because as Ben said, it's a great ensemble game, and there's no shortage of like all these great side characters who are like funny or sweet or or like you're concern like you're you want to help them, like the old lady. Or they're dumb.
01:19:09
Speaker
Or they're dumb. Like much. Yeah. but There's no shortage of like really s characters quickly and well-drawn characters, right? So I would... The last explanation I would go to is that Robin Hood is a failure of some execution, but it it does almost feel like he's kind of an asshole to make fun of that kind of protagonist. i i don't know.
01:19:31
Speaker
Like, I can't speak to the ah the author's intention, i can I can say that I think it's kind of funny that he's like a jerk.
01:19:43
Speaker
I just kind of find that amusing. It's like to write this hero... yeah to to write like this this hero And it's like, yeah, of course you like him. It's Robin Hood. You're not, you gotta not like Robin Hood. i mean, look at him. He's Robin Hood and you play him.
01:20:02
Speaker
He's kind of dashing. where you like yeah He's going through the motions of what a Robin Hood-esque hero would be doing. But yeah, the execution is a little odd at times.
01:20:13
Speaker
That's what's great about it. I love that. It is. It's such, I mean, yeah, and again, this is a game we all love and just this slightly off characterization. It'd be so easy just to make him like the swashbuckler who's always clever than everyone else and always has the perfect clip for the moment.
01:20:30
Speaker
And he doesn't quite have that. Like his interactions with Marion are largely awkward, which I kind of like, oh yeah I mean so good. Yeah. And not like in like the guybrush, three-foot, can't-talk-to-women sort of way, but like in very much a... I am, in no uncertain terms, telling you, Marion, that I'd like to sleep with you here in this willow grove.
01:20:53
Speaker
And her just sort of rebuffing him at every turn. Marion very... really basic is yeah is very it's a The Marion characterization, I think, is is really great because it it is this perfect sort of like she's this very willowy, dreamy sort of like, you know lady of the woods.
01:21:11
Speaker
i And then she has all this great like kind of ornate language. And that's sort of like the the kind of the kind of mystical Marion language. um And then she's just like pretending not to get what Robin and is doing. Yeah. what Yeah.
01:21:26
Speaker
yeah it's good you know what are you gonna do you know what are you gonna do sometimes it's just a good game uh any uh let's see i'm trying to think of uh some of the other stuff i really like it's beautiful i played it in the 16 color version as a kid which isn't quite as beautiful the ega could use a little work but i mean it's a beautiful game
Game Soundtracks and Complex Systems
01:21:47
Speaker
it's a total package right in that it's like yeah funny and well written you can play it multiple times uh then also right it's got a nice look to it it has like a nice soundtrack maybe maybe i don't know that the soundtrack is like as spectacular as some of them like because some of the like the standards for like adventure game soundtracks are so high like the most beloved ones are like well you know very beloved but like the soundtrack of this game is like it open perfectly up
01:22:15
Speaker
Opens with a song. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. This game, the soundtrack's perfectly up to the task. It's fun. It's nice and lovely. And there's even fun... like it brings the soundtrack into the game and the writing at times.
01:22:28
Speaker
Oh, yeah, because Alan Adale, yeah he's always he's always singing. mean, yeah, I can't believe I've brought up the fact that opens up with a song that you can sing along to. Yeah, beginning.
01:22:41
Speaker
I think he durings some of your deaths to every now and then he'll actually give the the like a funny little Alan Adale couplet for why you died.
01:22:53
Speaker
dooo dude do do I think that's what that one is. Yeah, that's it. That's the line. du du do i yeah and they it i like you know It does have... like yeah i think maybe its worst arcade sequence might be when they're dropping the rocks on you at the end.
01:23:16
Speaker
I don't even know this. We skipped the arcade sequences when we streamed it. You're scaling a wall, right? It's a wall scaling rock dropping. the very end, when you're at the monastery at the Fens.
01:23:29
Speaker
A classic black cauldron. And they're dropping, yeah they're dropping rocks on you. The, um, I'll also say we, we, we, we spoke about, uh, this a little bit last week.
01:23:41
Speaker
The one short eye uh, ah Longbow is really good. but oh yeah, this is a game with so many complex systems in it that it is completely breakable by speedrunners in some fascinating ways. Like by the time you put in arcade sequences, multiple solutions to puzzles, multiple endings and everything else, it just makes it a playground for people who want to exploit and break this game, which makes
Adventure Games Hall of Fame Inductees
01:24:08
Speaker
it fascinating. I think it's an incredibly complex game under the hood.
01:24:12
Speaker
uh richard cobbett also read a very nice uh piece about it uh for pc gamer if recall correctly that's very good yeah i mean this one's a beloved one i mean is this the time to reveal yeah it's it's time for the big reveal the big reveal folks uh we've been talking this over like the the genesis of this episode first of all it didn't include grayson he was added a later date i think that's important to know that he was just looking through the window and i'm empty with yeah i'm recording from the other side of the window as well yeah yeah that's why it sounds a little off uh it's through a pane of glass but um and the pain of being excluded um
01:24:53
Speaker
We talked about this sort of possibly as, uh, as an effort to start outlining what we hear at quest quest, the adventure game podcast might consider something of a canonical list of, uh, of great adventure games, maybe a ah hall of fame, if you will.
01:25:12
Speaker
And I'm happy to announce the first inductee into the quest quest, the adventure game podcast hall of fame. is conquest of the longbow. Can we, can we also retroactively just add some the ones that we've done episodes on? So we just don't go back and like have to do. I mean, I guess. So what else is in there? I have no space outlaws in the quest quest hall of fame.
01:25:40
Speaker
Yeah. You you happy with that? Is that okay? I mean, i guess if you're just going drop it on me you're right here on the moment, I guess. Yeah. I mean, what am I going say? No. Yeah. um um'm I'm asking you now. I mean, yes.
01:25:51
Speaker
Great. ah but but but but but i love me i'm I'm looking through our... Wayne's World. Yeah, Wayne's World. Not in the Hall of Fame. wow Sorry. What a dick move.
01:26:02
Speaker
ah And, uh, let's see, do we, yeah we did a Norco episode, right? We did a Norco episode. Yeah. I would put that there.
01:26:14
Speaker
You want that there? Norco's in the Quest Quest Hall of Fame. Congratulations, Norco. i could, I could, I could stop there. Just, just those three, I think. Beautiful. Well, they're your first three inductees into the Quest Quest.
01:26:28
Speaker
the adventure game podcast hall of fame. And you know what? I think at this point we can induct Grayson into the special guest host wing of the quest quest hall of fame.
01:26:39
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, Josh Mandel. Grayson's been here more often. Take that Francisco. but yeah
01:26:48
Speaker
ah Hey, Richard, take a hike.
01:26:52
Speaker
You know, it's funny. yeah We're all friends outside of the podcast. So I mean, me and the other guests you've mentioned, not us three. So, you know, yeah. When you get together to talk about the podcast with each other.
01:27:05
Speaker
Yeah. You've met Francisco. Yeah. A lovely man. I had a great time. Yeah. And I'm aware or of Richard and Josh.
01:27:17
Speaker
I'm thinking of that episode of The Tick where all the sidekicks are hanging out in the shed while but all the heroes are are in the party together. i think that's the Mad Bomber What Bombs at Midnight episode.
Nostalgic Cartoons and Borderlands Highlights
01:27:30
Speaker
Never saw The Tick. Is that worth watching? Very funny. It's actually... Oh. ah well Okay. yeah. Oh, okay. That was a yeah. okay Yeah! Well, yeah, it's the tick is the is genuinely... How was the Peter Serafanowicz one?
01:27:51
Speaker
I have not watched any of the live-action ones. Are we talking live-action tick, or are we talking... I was talking... We were starting with a cartoon, yeah and then I asked how the live-action one is. How's the live-action one? The cartoon one is in the Quest Quest Hall of Fame as well.
01:28:07
Speaker
The live-action ones, I don't know. Yeah, I haven't seen the live action either. I do like pure Sarah Fanowitz. It's very funny. Who doesn't? You know, it's got putty.
01:28:19
Speaker
It does have putty, doesn't it? You know what else? Another member of the Quest Quest. Hall of Fame. Tales from Borderlands.
01:28:34
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I'm going to put in a vote for that, Ben. It could be this one is is a tie, so it won't enter in this inaugural class. It can win ah it can win ah a daytime Quest Quest, Steve. You know, Yeah. For technical achievements. Yeah. Yeah. Voice acting.
01:28:53
Speaker
Yeah. yeah It was in the afternoon show that only aired online. It was a web broadcast. They mail you your award and it's just a piece of paper. Hmm.
01:29:05
Speaker
Well, there you have it. Welcome, ah Conquest the Longbow and those other games we mentioned to the Quest Quest Hall of Fame. I don't have this applause loaded so just think that these are claps.
01:29:23
Speaker
Just think that was applause. All right.
Closing Plugs and Listener Engagement
01:29:29
Speaker
yeah Imagine the opposite of that, i guess is what Ben's saying. Yeah. All right. Well, ah this has been Quest Quest. Thank you so much for joining us, Grayson. What do you have to plug?
01:29:40
Speaker
ah Well, as always, I'd like to plug the stream I do with Ben every Tuesday twitch.tv forward slash whatever, ben.com. And... Yes, underscore Garrick, you piece of shit.
01:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, and then check out... ah Go to one of Justice's classes. Learn something. I'm teaching some really great classes this semester. What do you got in the hopper this year? I've got intro to world politics. good i have international organizations. If you ever want to learn about the UN n or the EU or NATO. I i have war and popular culture.
01:30:18
Speaker
oh and so That's the only good one, really. oh We're watching Dr. Strangelove next week. o That sounds like fun. yeah that's good movie That's a good flick. Can you imagine like someone worried about fluoride in the water like getting a hold of power in our government? How scary that would be.
01:30:38
Speaker
Good night, everybody. QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com. Give us a good review. ah Join us next week when we talk about some other Sierra bullshit.