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Ep 113: That Venom Has a Booty!
51 Plays2 years ago
We're talking all things Venom on this episode! Also, we read some of the emails we've received.
https://linktr.ee/loserkidpinball
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We are on episode 113.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:13
Speaker
With me, my co-captain.
00:00:14
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, it's been an amazing week, hasn't it?
00:00:18
Speaker
It's okay.
00:00:19
Speaker
It's been ups and downs.
00:00:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'll take that.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'll say that.
00:00:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:25
Speaker
There's been a new release.
Venom Pinball Machine Release
00:00:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:27
Speaker
If you haven't heard, maybe you're under a rock, but Venom has now released and we're going to talk all about tonight.
00:00:33
Speaker
But if you want to order that Venom, where are you going to buy it from, Scott?
00:00:36
Speaker
Contact Zach and Nicole Minnie.
00:00:38
Speaker
And they sold out of their LEs, but they were able to get some more.
00:00:43
Speaker
So if you're interested in an LE, last I checked, they seem to be able to finagle a few.
00:00:48
Speaker
So if you are looking to pick up that new Venom and we're going to talk about Venom today.
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm, I'm a lot more interested than I was at the beginning.
00:00:59
Speaker
I guess I'll put it that way.
00:01:00
Speaker
I agree.
00:01:01
Speaker
So definitely contact Zach and Nicole at flipping out pinball.
00:01:04
Speaker
Definitely.
00:01:05
Speaker
If you want to get that venom, get ahold of them.
00:01:06
Speaker
They've got other games as well.
00:01:07
Speaker
They got plenty in stock.
00:01:08
Speaker
If you're ever curious to what they have, we highly recommend going on their Facebook page, flipping out pinball.
00:01:15
Speaker
And they have a whole list there of games that they have in inventory, willing and ready to ship to you.
00:01:20
Speaker
So, yeah,
00:01:22
Speaker
Hit them up.
00:01:22
Speaker
You know you want to.
00:01:24
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:01:24
Speaker
Well, Scott, you kind of alluded to it during our little, us talking about flipping
Origins and Impact of Venom Theme
00:01:30
Speaker
out.
00:01:30
Speaker
What have you thought of Venom so far?
00:01:33
Speaker
Okay, well...
00:01:35
Speaker
Do we start at the beginning with the teaser?
00:01:38
Speaker
I'm going to start.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, let's start with the teaser.
00:01:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:40
Speaker
So go ahead and give me your thoughts on the teaser.
00:01:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:43
Speaker
So first off, I wasn't really super excited for Venom.
00:01:46
Speaker
I think we've kind of already... Like, I was in the same boat as Godzilla, right?
00:01:49
Speaker
Like, it's just... I know what it is.
00:01:51
Speaker
It's a sea theme.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:53
Speaker
It is.
00:01:54
Speaker
Like, I would say that when the movie came out, it probably bumped it up to a B theme.
00:02:03
Speaker
The Tom Hardy movie?
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
I thought, I thought it was fine.
00:02:07
Speaker
It was a, it was a fun one.
00:02:08
Speaker
I, I enjoyed the movie, the, but it was still, it, it was not mandatory viewing.
00:02:17
Speaker
If you're into superhero movies.
00:02:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:20
Speaker
I agree.
00:02:21
Speaker
But this is not the Tom Hardy movie, but I don't think this would have been made without the Tom Hardy movie.
00:02:28
Speaker
I agree.
00:02:29
Speaker
I still think the theme's a little like not,
00:02:34
Speaker
I don't think it draws as many people at this point.
00:02:37
Speaker
And, you know, going back to the teaser, the art looks fantastic.
00:02:41
Speaker
Like zombie Yeti,
00:02:44
Speaker
I don't think he's had a bad art package yet.
00:02:46
Speaker
Right.
00:02:46
Speaker
No.
00:02:47
Speaker
And he's really brought it with this one.
00:02:49
Speaker
I know a lot of complaints is he uses a lot of reds.
00:02:51
Speaker
Red.
00:02:52
Speaker
But a carnage is red.
00:02:53
Speaker
So.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:54
Speaker
But it was nice because it seemed like he leaned heavily on the blacks and blues with red to, you know, obviously highlight carnage.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker
And who cares?
00:03:03
Speaker
I like red.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:05
Speaker
My hat's red.
00:03:06
Speaker
So we're good.
00:03:07
Speaker
It doesn't bother me one bit.
00:03:09
Speaker
I think overall, I still was kind of like, well, now I'm getting a little intrigued, right?
00:03:14
Speaker
Vocals sound good.
00:03:15
Speaker
It all sounded really well in the teaser trailer.
00:03:19
Speaker
And so what shocked me is how long this game has been teased.
Venom Artwork and Design
00:03:25
Speaker
Not even teased.
00:03:26
Speaker
Well, rumored.
00:03:26
Speaker
Rumored.
00:03:27
Speaker
It's only been rumored for years.
00:03:30
Speaker
Years.
00:03:31
Speaker
And so it kind of shocked me that nothing had really leaked.
00:03:36
Speaker
Right.
00:03:37
Speaker
Right.
00:03:38
Speaker
pushing it back another year and whatnot.
00:03:40
Speaker
And even what took its place.
00:03:42
Speaker
Let's talk about that.
00:03:44
Speaker
What took its place was bond.
00:03:46
Speaker
I think.
00:03:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:48
Speaker
So, and Bond, you know, I'm hearing, I do know someone that got a Bond and they're actually really enjoying it.
00:03:55
Speaker
It's one of their favorite games in their collection right now because of the new code update that's really fleshed out the game.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I predicted that.
00:04:02
Speaker
I predicted if you're a Bond fan, if you're willing to wait it out, then they would be able to
00:04:08
Speaker
to fill it out because it, the layout I think is good.
00:04:13
Speaker
I is still on my favorite layout.
00:04:15
Speaker
I, I'm still not a huge fan of the left side with the, with the scoop.
00:04:21
Speaker
Cause it, when I'm playing it, it gets into that left scoop all the time and then it shoots out and it's out of control.
00:04:28
Speaker
So I, I, you know, the layout's okay, but with the new rules on board, it actually is a fun game.
00:04:36
Speaker
Like my friend picked up an L E.
00:04:38
Speaker
And we had a great time playing it the other day.
00:04:41
Speaker
Well, good.
00:04:43
Speaker
I think, I want to tie this back to Venom.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker
No, but I'm curious.
00:04:49
Speaker
Why do you think that it was pushed for a year?
00:04:53
Speaker
I really don't know speculating by the way.
00:04:56
Speaker
No one has any idea, but I, it was obvious that they were planning on releasing it last year because they had a booth with Todd McFarlane.
00:05:05
Speaker
And by the way, I, I will correct myself because I, I thought that Todd McFarlane was a Spider-Man artist who ended up becoming very famous.
00:05:18
Speaker
Apparently he did co like co-create Venom.
00:05:23
Speaker
So that's that's why Todd was was there last year.
00:05:27
Speaker
I'm assuming to anticipate the release.
00:05:29
Speaker
And the only thing I can possibly think of like Ozzy Osbourne being there is because there's an Osbourne in the character, I guess.
00:05:40
Speaker
Well, until VH1 does a behind the pinball machine, right?
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah, I guess we'll never know until.
00:05:46
Speaker
We don't get the stories out of the guys except for like the old Bally Williams stuff we get information on because.
00:05:53
Speaker
Because it's 30 years old.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, and the company doesn't exist anymore.
00:05:55
Speaker
So what's it going to hurt it to release that information?
00:05:58
Speaker
Right.
00:05:59
Speaker
Maybe this is all speculation.
00:06:01
Speaker
Maybe originally it did have Todd McFarland and Ozzy Osbourne in the game, but they had to revamp because of.
00:06:07
Speaker
licensing issues or something like that.
00:06:09
Speaker
It is kind of bizarre.
00:06:10
Speaker
And the other funny part to it.
00:06:11
Speaker
So let's, let's move past the teaser.
00:06:13
Speaker
And finally, Monday stern puts out like a full week long schedule, right?
00:06:20
Speaker
And, uh, you know, releases on Tuesday.
00:06:24
Speaker
It finally releases, uh,
00:06:26
Speaker
And there's no Ozzy Osbourne.
00:06:28
Speaker
As far as I can tell, I don't know if Todd's had any involvement in the game.
00:06:32
Speaker
But the interesting part about this is when they released it, at least if you listen to the Stern Insider podcast, they talked about it was at like.72.
Gameplay Impressions and Concerns
00:06:39
Speaker
And that's releasing now, which I thought was very strange.
00:06:43
Speaker
Because if we pushed it another year out,
00:06:46
Speaker
And it was, we don't know how ready it was for Comic-Con.
00:06:49
Speaker
Shouldn't it be 1.72?
00:06:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:51
Speaker
And that's what we've kind of like been talking about.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:54
Speaker
But after looking at Dwight's on the game and he's,
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:01
Speaker
How many pages is the PDF for the rule sheet?
00:07:05
Speaker
You remember?
00:07:05
Speaker
Over 30?
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's like 31 pages of rules.
00:07:09
Speaker
So I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because maybe they spent that time just solely putting in rules to this game.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:17
Speaker
You know?
00:07:19
Speaker
I don't know.
00:07:19
Speaker
What was your first thoughts when you saw that the trailer leaked like an hour early?
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
I guess it wasn't the trailer.
00:07:27
Speaker
Sorry.
00:07:27
Speaker
On Monday,
00:07:29
Speaker
They had accidentally put it into a playlist under YouTube as it wasn't listed.
00:07:35
Speaker
But if you knew the link, like, yeah, I didn't see it.
00:07:38
Speaker
You saw it because you sent it to me.
00:07:40
Speaker
And then when I clicked on it, they had already made it a private link.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
So I didn't see it until it finally became public.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:51
Speaker
I don't know.
00:07:53
Speaker
And that the artwork still look great to me.
00:07:56
Speaker
Like it just, it was reaffirming that like, it's still going to look great.
00:08:00
Speaker
What were your initial thoughts when finally Tuesday hit and 10 o'clock hit and they released the game trailer?
00:08:05
Speaker
You know what?
00:08:06
Speaker
Not good.
00:08:08
Speaker
To be blunt.
00:08:09
Speaker
I looked at the game and I eyeballed it and I said this is
00:08:16
Speaker
it looks like almost everything is in the back third of the game.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:22
Speaker
It felt very, very open.
00:08:26
Speaker
Um, and my initial thoughts were it could be a P three game.
RPG Elements in Pinball - Innovation or Alienation?
00:08:32
Speaker
I do remember you saying that.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, because it like, it looks like something that you could drop into a, uh, a generic play field that has flippers on it.
00:08:44
Speaker
And, uh,
00:08:45
Speaker
then they're starting to do that on P3 where they're able to bring things down the side.
00:08:52
Speaker
So that was my initial thought and I was confused, I guess.
00:08:59
Speaker
What about you?
00:09:01
Speaker
I was confused.
00:09:02
Speaker
It was what a minute long trailer.
00:09:04
Speaker
I don't know if it was that long, a little bit over.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:08
Speaker
And by the end of it, I was just, I was so confused.
00:09:11
Speaker
Like, it's funny.
00:09:12
Speaker
Cause I went and posted on our Facebook.
00:09:14
Speaker
I shared the stern stuff and I put like, they reuse the Ferris wheel mech from comment.
00:09:21
Speaker
Cause that's what that, that's what that ran like scoop.
00:09:24
Speaker
And then the way it moves and everything and the way that they presented it in that first trailer,
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker
At first glance, I was like, yeah, that's what that is.
00:09:32
Speaker
After watching the trailer numerous times, it's like, oh, that's not exactly what that is.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker
And I still... It wasn't until Jack Danger and Brian Eddy were playing it.
00:09:46
Speaker
Did the stream last night.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yep.
00:09:47
Speaker
And explaining it and watching it actually... Like, the game literally evolve as you're watching it.
00:09:53
Speaker
I was like, oh, this is like a change... Like, the full game is a change state game.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:00
Speaker
And so...
00:10:02
Speaker
I guess I think the problem I've had with all of this so far is I just don't feel like this has been communicated properly.
00:10:08
Speaker
Like they, they have not controlled their own message.
00:10:13
Speaker
Correct.
00:10:14
Speaker
And it's sad, which is weird.
00:10:16
Speaker
Cause I feel like it's the same, like they did with bond as well.
00:10:19
Speaker
Like the, the message was not clear on that one as well.
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:24
Speaker
And so with venom, I just, I wasn't super excited until I,
00:10:30
Speaker
I listened to the Stern Insider podcast and it was explained.
00:10:33
Speaker
This whole game is based off of experience points.
00:10:36
Speaker
This is almost like a video game.
00:10:37
Speaker
This is a video game.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
And it's set up like an RPG, an online RPG.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
You're leveling up.
00:10:46
Speaker
There's four characters that you can play as.
00:10:48
Speaker
You can level up each character.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:50
Speaker
Or maybe it's just yourself.
00:10:53
Speaker
This is all tied to your Insider Connected.
00:10:55
Speaker
So say you're playing this on a location.
00:10:59
Speaker
it goes with you when you leave.
00:11:01
Speaker
And then once you actually get to a certain part in the game, you can unlock Hulk, Captain America and Wolverine and have those unlocked for the rest of the game.
00:11:08
Speaker
Once you, I'm sorry, keep going.
00:11:12
Speaker
No, you're good.
00:11:12
Speaker
Like it just, it boggles my mind.
00:11:14
Speaker
Like I'm really impressed with what Dwight has come up with this.
00:11:19
Speaker
Like right system.
00:11:22
Speaker
It's, it's very unique.
00:11:23
Speaker
Well, I guess Ray day and Dwight, they're both mean, um,
00:11:30
Speaker
I just, they should be pushing that.
00:11:32
Speaker
I don't understand why they're not pushing that.
00:11:34
Speaker
Can I get into some concerns?
00:11:36
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:36
Speaker
Go for it.
00:11:38
Speaker
The concern I have is along the lines of, we have always said, we want something different.
00:11:46
Speaker
And Marty puts it as we want something different, but not that.
00:11:51
Speaker
And so that's typically our go-to response when something different comes out.
00:11:57
Speaker
So does that mean, is this going to, is this going to be something that carries to the pinball audience?
00:12:10
Speaker
Because it is, it is different.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
It's a, this is not a system that we're used to in pinball.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:20
Speaker
Is that, and also what happens if you have a location that does not,
00:12:27
Speaker
activate the insider connected.
00:12:30
Speaker
True.
00:12:31
Speaker
So you're going to have, you're going to have some issues with that.
00:12:34
Speaker
And I would say the majority, you're definitely catering to a crowd that's thirties and twenties.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:43
Speaker
Because they're used to, there's going to be a lot more crossover in that demographic with video games than in the forties, fifties and sixties.
00:12:51
Speaker
I agree.
00:12:52
Speaker
And I, I,
00:12:55
Speaker
I haven't played those type of games in 15 years.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:59
Speaker
So that's, that's a different demographic.
00:13:02
Speaker
If that's what they're going for, then this could be a reach.
00:13:06
Speaker
Another question is, was that plant?
00:13:10
Speaker
What, what was what plan?
00:13:11
Speaker
What was it planned to say, Hey, we are going to design a game that has a lot more in common with video games and online video games.
Marketing and Communication Strategies
00:13:24
Speaker
And if that was a planned strategic choice, which I hope it, I hope it was, I think it should be.
00:13:33
Speaker
I think it is.
00:13:34
Speaker
Why, why did they not push it at all?
00:13:37
Speaker
We basically had to figure that out on our own.
00:13:41
Speaker
Why, while watching the, the reveal stream.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:46
Speaker
Well, it helped.
00:13:47
Speaker
It helped to, you know, it helps that we sat there and we talked to Travis Murie and Joel and birth and Tom and Travis gets paid to watch this stuff over and over.
00:13:56
Speaker
Well, he's also a top player and so is Tom.
00:14:00
Speaker
And so they're going to dissect things very quickly.
00:14:03
Speaker
But Travis is getting paid to dissect, right?
00:14:05
Speaker
Yes, that's true.
00:14:06
Speaker
Up front.
00:14:06
Speaker
And so like he's telling us this as we're, because I'm not going to lie.
00:14:10
Speaker
If I wasn't friends with Travis at this point, I don't know if I'd still understand half of this stuff.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:16
Speaker
And so they really should be pushing like save your progress and like level up your game.
00:14:21
Speaker
And cause they came out, they came straight out and was like, this isn't a mode based game, but it's got modes in it.
00:14:28
Speaker
So it's like, so it doesn't revolve around the modes.
00:14:30
Speaker
It's an activation game.
00:14:32
Speaker
You can,
00:14:33
Speaker
You can activate a mode based on experience levels.
00:14:38
Speaker
So is that frustrating though to you?
00:14:40
Speaker
Like, is that frustrating that like you don't get everything up front when you, cause pinball has always been like, everything's available.
00:14:46
Speaker
So long as your skill level is able to activate it where this is like, you doesn't, it, the better, the longer you play, the easier the game can get.
00:14:58
Speaker
However, he did say that if you're a, they do have a speed run option in this.
00:15:04
Speaker
And so there is a way of logging in.
00:15:08
Speaker
And, you know, if you have the skill set of Raymond Davidson, I'm pretty sure you could get to level 50 in one game.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:15:18
Speaker
So that, so that's not prohibitive, but the question I have also is, is that advantageous?
00:15:27
Speaker
that you are always crawling toward a higher level that does it top out at like 50?
00:15:33
Speaker
Does it top out at 99?
00:15:34
Speaker
I think they said 50.
00:15:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:37
Speaker
So you top out at 50.
00:15:38
Speaker
Are there people who are going to like video games?
00:15:42
Speaker
A lot of, a lot of players of video games will say I'd beat the game.
00:15:46
Speaker
And so they sell it and they, they never play it again.
00:15:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:49
Speaker
Well, and it's not going to happen with something like this.
00:15:52
Speaker
Well, that's, what's crazy too.
00:15:53
Speaker
Like,
00:15:54
Speaker
This is definitely like new territory.
00:15:59
Speaker
I don't know why they're not pushing this.
00:16:00
Speaker
This is brand new territory in pinball.
00:16:03
Speaker
This has never been done before.
00:16:04
Speaker
And like you said, let's say you do beat the game.
00:16:07
Speaker
Let's say you own Venom, you beat the game, you have it all saved to your account, and granted, I think you can reset it.
00:16:13
Speaker
They did talk about you can reset your levels and stuff like that.
00:16:16
Speaker
But let's say you sell the game and you keep it saved through your phone and whatnot.
00:16:22
Speaker
I mean, do you have the urge to buy it back?
00:16:25
Speaker
And if not, you could just go out on location and find it and just...
00:16:29
Speaker
Boom, there's your progress.
00:16:33
Speaker
There's so much unknowns to this.
00:16:38
Speaker
Maybe we're just super, we're so overthinking what's going on right now.
00:16:43
Speaker
Okay, but we've all bought games.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:46
Speaker
Right?
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker
And so we're not naive to pinball.
00:16:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:52
Speaker
We're used to what a game is.
00:16:55
Speaker
So this is a huge risk in that they have completely deviated from what their, their historic titles are.
00:17:03
Speaker
Now they have more technology.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:05
Speaker
So they, so insider connected has definitely made this possible.
00:17:10
Speaker
And I, I,
00:17:12
Speaker
I applaud them for trying something.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
No, I agree.
00:17:16
Speaker
Will it be successful?
00:17:17
Speaker
That's yet to be determined.
00:17:20
Speaker
However, I would, I would argue that the response has been so far either.
00:17:30
Speaker
No, it's been lukewarm at best or, or, um,
00:17:35
Speaker
still fact finding, just questioning, like trying to get more information about it.
00:17:41
Speaker
But I don't know too many people that are jumping on by now.
00:17:46
Speaker
I agree.
00:17:48
Speaker
Well, that's what concerns me as well.
00:17:50
Speaker
Like why this game?
00:17:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:53
Speaker
Let's talk about layout.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's a fan layout.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:56
Speaker
Well, it's basically the ultimate fan layout.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:00
Speaker
Because the first two thirds really are an open canvas.
00:18:08
Speaker
It is way open.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:11
Speaker
But the interesting part is because of those locks, pretty much holding the balls at half filled, it becomes ridiculously fast to play this game.
00:18:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:22
Speaker
So that's actually what I was going to bring up.
00:18:24
Speaker
I was going to bring up, you know how Black Knight, one of the complaints was that
00:18:31
Speaker
is that the shots were about halfway up the field.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:35
Speaker
It was basically like a mini game.
00:18:37
Speaker
And so it was brutal from the start.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yep.
00:18:41
Speaker
And that you, you were firing it and it was coming back at you so fast.
00:18:47
Speaker
Well, this game,
00:18:49
Speaker
this is kind of a hybrid where the balls are coming back because you hit a ramp and it kicks a ball out a lot faster than you think it's going to.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:58
Speaker
And so you're getting the balls back, but you're not getting as much ricochet.
00:19:03
Speaker
I wonder if they considered that because, because why else would you design these, these,
00:19:09
Speaker
these dispensers on the right and left and the right is even lower on the play field.
00:19:14
Speaker
The right looks like it's about 66% down on the play field.
00:19:17
Speaker
The left looks about 50% down.
00:19:20
Speaker
And I don't know if that's because like they took into consideration it is a family out.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:24
Speaker
And so family outs are typically pandas like super easy, which they're not wrong.
00:19:31
Speaker
Like, right.
00:19:31
Speaker
Like,
00:19:33
Speaker
But well, there's only seven shots really.
00:19:36
Speaker
There's one, two.
00:19:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:38
Speaker
So I'm counting.
00:19:39
Speaker
There's one, two, three on the left.
Game Design and Fan Layout
00:19:42
Speaker
There's the ramp up the middle and then you have, um, so that's four, then five, six, seven, eight.
00:19:50
Speaker
I guess there's eight targeted shots.
00:19:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:56
Speaker
So you see, well, I guess there's nine if you want to count the bell tower, the bell tower.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker
But still, overall, the game, watching it last night, it moved really fast.
00:20:07
Speaker
It did.
00:20:08
Speaker
Maybe that's great that the safe progression, maybe that was a very knowledgeable thing because they're like, well, if this plays too long, then the safe progression system is not really going to be worth much then.
00:20:19
Speaker
If you can do it all on the first run and you're a novice, there's a problem.
00:20:23
Speaker
Okay, so let's talk about the other issue.
00:20:25
Speaker
Is that, not issue.
00:20:28
Speaker
The complete unknown on how people will receive this is that depending on which host you choose, it reconfigures the game, at least on the premium and LE one.
00:20:44
Speaker
Which is insanely cool to me.
00:20:47
Speaker
It's really cool because you have different shots.
00:20:51
Speaker
There's no other game they've done this on.
00:20:53
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:20:53
Speaker
Now there are games that we're used to having diverters on.
00:20:58
Speaker
Diverters?
00:20:59
Speaker
Well, and okay, to be fair, that's kind of what this is.
00:21:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:04
Speaker
It's basically a diverter that changes from ball to ball.
00:21:11
Speaker
true but but like i guess godzilla is the only other one i can think of like in godzilla obviously if you hit the building enough it drops down and it changes the path of the balls right going through the ramps which was diverters yeah correct but like this is from the get-go is technically like four i want to say four different different games yeah but it's four different layouts it is because the the shots are the same but the balls come back differently
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, and really the only thing that stays the same is the orbits, I want to say.
00:21:39
Speaker
Because most of the ramps and even the middle shots and everything all change to some extent.
00:21:44
Speaker
And it's, I don't know, it's insanely cool.
00:21:46
Speaker
Like, I don't get why there's a lukewarm reception to this game.
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:52
Speaker
Well, based off of your true hardcore pinball fan, like throwaway theme, because obviously Godzilla, like I said, Godzilla was a C theme.
00:22:02
Speaker
C theme.
00:22:02
Speaker
I would I would put Venom above Godzilla.
00:22:05
Speaker
Oh, yes, I would.
00:22:07
Speaker
I don't.
00:22:08
Speaker
Are we just I mean, look at movie theaters.
00:22:12
Speaker
I guess superhero movies are not doing great right now.
00:22:15
Speaker
Is it because of that?
00:22:17
Speaker
Is there just a whirlwind of stuff?
00:22:19
Speaker
Because I know that people do complain about Dwight code.
00:22:23
Speaker
I know people either love it or hate it, but the problem is too is sometimes you have to wait.
00:22:27
Speaker
It takes a long time.
00:22:29
Speaker
That's my biggest concern with Dwight is that he is so passionate about it.
00:22:35
Speaker
that it can take him a long time to really flesh out a code set.
00:22:43
Speaker
And even then he has radically changed many code sets.
00:22:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:48
Speaker
I mean, Game of Thrones went through that.
00:22:50
Speaker
Ghostbusters.
00:22:51
Speaker
Ghostbusters went through that.
00:22:53
Speaker
And, you know, it's...
00:22:56
Speaker
I don't feel like Ninja Turtles did, but the Ninja Turtles did take a balancing of the score as well.
00:23:01
Speaker
It did, yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
And you can already tell that with Venom.
00:23:03
Speaker
Like, when we watched last night, what was it?
00:23:06
Speaker
It was like Mayhem multiball.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
If you start off as Eddie Brock, and I think maybe he even was more leveled up.
00:23:16
Speaker
Once you got a Mayhem multiball, it just destroyed the game.
00:23:19
Speaker
Like, $2 billion on one ball, and the next closest score was $33 million.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
And he was telling us like, oh, there's like a backdoor to get into that.
00:23:27
Speaker
And it gives you like two X. And he was talking about the multipliers and everything.
00:23:31
Speaker
It's like,
00:23:33
Speaker
Oh, great.
00:23:34
Speaker
Like, so I can get my bot handed to me.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:37
Speaker
It's yeah.
00:23:38
Speaker
That, that, that was unfortunate.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:41
Speaker
To see, because you don't want to, if you're going into a, if you're playing for points, you don't want to be beat because someone knows, knows an exploit that makes a 10 times multiplier happen.
00:23:55
Speaker
I agree.
00:23:57
Speaker
I really hope,
00:23:59
Speaker
I love Dwight, and I really think that his code, his rules are very unique from what everyone else is doing.
00:24:05
Speaker
I hope he's doing the rule set and Raymond's doing the coding.
00:24:09
Speaker
Because the issue I had with Ninja Turtles is there was a lot of glitches, and I don't know if that was specifically for Dwight or whatnot, but I remember I'd get into a multiball and the whole game would shut down if you did something and reset itself.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I don't have that issue with any of my other games behind me.
00:24:28
Speaker
I could be, I could be miss mistaken, but I would bet that the, the lead coders are more of the rule set designers and they have other people who are doing the code, like writing the physical code.
00:24:47
Speaker
Cause, cause there, there's no need for, there's, you know, there's no need for the master architect.
00:24:55
Speaker
And even,
00:24:56
Speaker
Even Lyman wasn't... When they were talking with Josh Sharp and they were talking about the Cactus Canyon continued code, it was Lyman fleshing out all the rules.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, he was coming up with the concepts.
00:25:08
Speaker
He was coming up with the concepts.
00:25:10
Speaker
And that's pretty much what...
00:25:13
Speaker
what I'm assuming Dwight's doing.
00:25:14
Speaker
I could be completely wrong.
00:25:16
Speaker
So we've touched on this a little bit.
00:25:20
Speaker
We've been so scattered brain, but it's hard because there's so much information on this one.
00:25:24
Speaker
We both agreed there has been a lukewarm reception.
00:25:27
Speaker
If you haven't heard a lot of distributors, you've either turned down allotment or the allotment that they do have isn't moving as quickly as they thought.
00:25:36
Speaker
Why do you think there's such a lukewarm reception to this game?
Reception and Market Challenges
00:25:42
Speaker
I would attribute it to two things.
00:25:44
Speaker
One, the game is different.
00:25:49
Speaker
It is not your typical game.
00:25:51
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:25:52
Speaker
So there's this, I don't know what this is.
00:25:57
Speaker
And that's what people are saying.
00:25:58
Speaker
I'm not sure what this is.
00:26:00
Speaker
And so they're evaluating it based on historical games.
00:26:05
Speaker
So they're looking at this game and saying, huh, well, basically like you and I did.
00:26:10
Speaker
Well, it looks like there's eight shots in a fan layout.
00:26:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:15
Speaker
Pretty art.
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:17
Speaker
But when you look at it and they actually have all these state changes that make it reconfigure it, depending on which host you are, it does make it a lot more interesting.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker
The question is, is that good?
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
So people know what they get with other games.
00:26:36
Speaker
People just don't understand what they're getting with this game.
00:26:39
Speaker
And it could be a huge hit.
00:26:41
Speaker
What I'm concerned with is
00:26:43
Speaker
is this could be another Stranger Things thing where we all know Stranger Things wasn't, it was a very lukewarm reception because it was basically a re-theme of Attack from Mars.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker
But guess what?
00:26:57
Speaker
Attack from Mars is a great game.
00:26:59
Speaker
And so they cut production short.
00:27:01
Speaker
Then people said, hey, wait, this is a great layout and it's a theme I like.
00:27:05
Speaker
And then they didn't have any more.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:08
Speaker
And that's one of the only games that's still commanding high dollar right now.
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
So I'm wondering, I'm concerned that this won't have enough velocity for people to experience it because you at least need people who are willing to take a chance at buying this and letting people play it.
00:27:30
Speaker
I think,
00:27:30
Speaker
I think also what's going to, it's hurting it and it's helping it.
00:27:34
Speaker
And the reason I say this is the production schedule doesn't actually start till September.
00:27:38
Speaker
That's fair.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
So, so we're at the end of July now.
00:27:42
Speaker
And then August is pretty much going to take most of the time moving into the new factory, like two weeks or whatever.
00:27:47
Speaker
And then they're going to get the pros on the line at the end of August and then premiums and LEs in September.
00:27:51
Speaker
Right.
00:27:53
Speaker
But at the end of October, we also have, yeah,
00:27:57
Speaker
another pinball expo.
00:27:58
Speaker
Right.
00:27:59
Speaker
So, and people can play it there.
00:28:01
Speaker
And that, that is the telltale sign of a game.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:05
Speaker
Is if people want to play it.
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:07
Speaker
Add, add an expo and people who know what they're doing.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yep.
00:28:11
Speaker
I think people are going to get their hands on this expo and realize like, this is really good.
00:28:16
Speaker
Like the concepts are here.
00:28:19
Speaker
It feels great.
00:28:21
Speaker
Um, because family outs, I don't know many family outs where it's like, I shoot it and it's,
00:28:26
Speaker
It doesn't feel great.
00:28:27
Speaker
The shots could feel good, but I guess the first one that comes to mind is Stearns, Indiana Jones.
00:28:32
Speaker
It's a fan layout, and it shoots great, but the problem is it shoots too great.
00:28:36
Speaker
It's boring.
00:28:37
Speaker
It's a boring game.
00:28:38
Speaker
It becomes boring.
00:28:39
Speaker
Where this is so fast, I think that's going to eliminate that.
00:28:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:28:43
Speaker
It's so mind-boggling to me because there are some really cool concepts in this game.
00:28:48
Speaker
I just...
00:28:49
Speaker
I don't want to like pin the fault on anyone.
00:28:52
Speaker
Right.
00:28:52
Speaker
Like, but I'm just trying to like, well, I'm trying to understand because they don't make these decisions in a bubble.
00:28:58
Speaker
Correct.
00:29:00
Speaker
I'm also slightly concerned that the pro version, I it's a static layout.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yes, it is.
00:29:09
Speaker
So it's kind of premium or nothing.
00:29:11
Speaker
Well, premium Ellie or nothing at this point.
00:29:13
Speaker
Huh?
00:29:13
Speaker
Well, if you want all the features, if you're like, Hey, I just want a game, but the,
00:29:20
Speaker
I would say that the pro version of this looks a lot, you know, similar to like a, I don't want to insult it, but like a home pin version.
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker
There's there, there, there is no Mac.
00:29:36
Speaker
There's no, um, wow.
00:29:39
Speaker
The doppelganger is gone.
00:29:40
Speaker
And, um,
00:29:41
Speaker
You mean like a home edition of a Stern, right?
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:29:45
Speaker
So you said home pin, I thought.
00:29:47
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:29:48
Speaker
Sorry.
00:29:49
Speaker
I'm talking a home version of a pin.
00:29:52
Speaker
So a home use only or whatever.
00:29:55
Speaker
Yeah, I get you.
00:29:55
Speaker
I just did.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, the pin series is what I mean.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
So, but this one, obviously the mech that changes, it's the fourth shot over from the left.
00:30:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:09
Speaker
That's the big mech in the game.
00:30:12
Speaker
So the two main things I see different is that mech and the doppelganger.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:19
Speaker
And you're not getting that on the pro.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
However, sometimes people like the pro version better.
00:30:24
Speaker
I remember Game of Thrones.
00:30:26
Speaker
That wasn't that deep of a layout, but a lot of people preferred the fan layout without the upper play field.
00:30:34
Speaker
That's true as well.
00:30:36
Speaker
you brought up the doppelganger i gotta we watched the video last night as they say in ray and the last dragon that bug's got a booty oh my goodness what is up with the sculptor and that doppelganger it's it's certainly something something someone someone gave that doppelganger some cake
00:30:59
Speaker
Wow.
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, it looks interesting, yeah.
00:31:03
Speaker
I was like, what the heck?
00:31:05
Speaker
And they would pause the screen on the booty.
00:31:10
Speaker
On the doppelganger, yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker
We won't tell you about the XP system, but you should check out this booty on the doppelganger.
00:31:17
Speaker
Check out the sculpt.
00:31:21
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
Uh...
00:31:29
Speaker
All right.
00:31:31
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:31:32
Speaker
I think the chain state is one of the... I don't know.
00:31:35
Speaker
I can't fathom buying the Pro at this point because of that.
00:31:40
Speaker
If you're going to choose one, pay the extra $2,000 to $3,000, get the premium.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:46
Speaker
That's my take.
00:31:47
Speaker
Unless you want a more economical...
00:31:52
Speaker
game that you put in your house.
00:31:53
Speaker
And by saying more economical, you know, still the, still the price of a used car.
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:02
Speaker
So overall,
00:32:04
Speaker
What are your thoughts on, on Venom?
00:32:07
Speaker
My thoughts are, I hope there is enough time that people are able to get to play it.
00:32:16
Speaker
And I hope there's enough people who are willing to take a risk on a game that is unknown so they can try it out.
00:32:24
Speaker
And because that's the only way this game is going to succeed is by word of mouth.
00:32:33
Speaker
It's, it's the same thing as a movie.
00:32:34
Speaker
Sometimes movies, they come a lot of times movies come out the big weekend.
00:32:40
Speaker
And then the second weekend, there's a huge drop off.
00:32:42
Speaker
There's like a 60% drop off and then it goes even lower and then goes even lower.
00:32:49
Speaker
So they make their money in the first two weeks on movies that people go see it.
00:32:55
Speaker
And it may be a lower budget movie.
00:32:57
Speaker
and people tell their friends, Hey, this was really good.
00:33:01
Speaker
You should check it out.
00:33:03
Speaker
And so it has a lot more of a slow burn.
00:33:08
Speaker
That is the only way this is going to work because the first weekend out of the gate, it's not doing well.
00:33:19
Speaker
I agree.
00:33:20
Speaker
And I think this definitely, I agree with you.
00:33:22
Speaker
This is going to have to be a slow burn on this one.
00:33:24
Speaker
It's,
00:33:27
Speaker
I guess just time will tell.
00:33:28
Speaker
Right.
00:33:29
Speaker
And I have to, for me, if I'm selling a game, if I'm buying a game, I have to sell a game because I am out of space.
00:33:38
Speaker
So many people are in that position.
00:33:40
Speaker
So when you're taking a risk, you're selling a game that you don't, that you know what you're getting.
00:33:48
Speaker
And then you're committing to buying a very expensive game that you don't know.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:53
Speaker
There's also,
00:33:55
Speaker
there's a very real chance that when these are available, there is going to be announced another game.
Pinball Market Trends and Pricing
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:05
Speaker
And L one's up.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
That's, that's the hard part too.
00:34:09
Speaker
Like that's the hard part.
00:34:10
Speaker
That space behind me, Foo Fighters, is going there on Monday.
00:34:14
Speaker
Right.
00:34:14
Speaker
It's coming in.
00:34:16
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:34:17
Speaker
That's where we're at production-wise is I usually get in on the second run, and by the time the second run rolls around, you're running into the next game that they're releasing.
00:34:26
Speaker
I mean, I'm literally the same week.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker
I'm within seven days of the release.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:34
Speaker
I agree.
00:34:35
Speaker
I think it's just really weird.
00:34:37
Speaker
That's the challenge.
00:34:37
Speaker
I think I agree with you on it's harder to move games right now as well.
00:34:42
Speaker
It is.
00:34:42
Speaker
I don't know what's going on in your neck of the woods, but watching the Utah market, games, Sterns that are six months old are selling for six grand.
00:34:50
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's not.
00:34:53
Speaker
And granted, I guess some of those are more used games that are for like, okay, but they're rentals, but we need to remember though, that that's how it's always been.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:04
Speaker
So the COVID years, when people were buying games and then selling them later for $500 to $1,000 more than they paid for them, that's not normal.
00:35:17
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:35:18
Speaker
And usually if you buy a game and you play it for a while and then you take a $500 to $1,000 hit, you're saying, well, okay, at least I rented a game for $500.
00:35:30
Speaker
five months, five to 10 months.
00:35:33
Speaker
And okay.
00:35:34
Speaker
I play, I paid a hundred dollars a month for the game.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
So that's not a, that's not unreasonable.
00:35:40
Speaker
And that's more likely than, than what it was.
00:35:44
Speaker
So I, I'm not too concerned about that, but it is, it doesn't make people question whether or not they should immediately buy a new game though.
00:35:54
Speaker
Correct.
00:35:54
Speaker
And I agree.
00:35:55
Speaker
And I think it also comes down to that.
00:35:57
Speaker
Like,
00:35:58
Speaker
like you, you don't have much room left in your connect or your collection.
00:36:01
Speaker
So it's like, well, if I do see, you'd say you wanted venom, you would have to essentially start selling now.
00:36:08
Speaker
Right.
00:36:10
Speaker
And it's not because it's because you've got to have those couple of months to actually move the game.
00:36:15
Speaker
And just, I feel like we were so used to, you could post a game 48 hours later.
00:36:21
Speaker
That's like a long period at that time.
00:36:24
Speaker
It would be sold and you would have it out before the end of the week.
00:36:27
Speaker
Now it's like, I, I would even give it, it used to be, I'd give it two weeks just to be safe.
00:36:33
Speaker
Cause if I knew a game was coming in in two weeks, you know,
00:36:36
Speaker
And now it's like you almost need two months to, to move a game at a decent price.
00:36:43
Speaker
So I just pulled up, I just pulled up Pinside and looked at the, the for sale stuff.
00:36:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:51
Speaker
And, and this is the first page.
00:36:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:54
Speaker
So you're, you're getting, you know, promoted content, even promoted content, new in box, Godzilla, a premium.
00:37:04
Speaker
9,699.
00:37:04
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:37:05
Speaker
You have Venom LE on there for, you know, the sticker price.
00:37:08
Speaker
You have dialed in at $8,000.
00:37:10
Speaker
And this is a Jurassic Park Pro Firm 6,500.
00:37:24
Speaker
So I actually, I'm going to plug this right now because Ted Finley reached out to us via email.
00:37:30
Speaker
He just says he loves the podcast and he wanted to make us aware of his website, pinballprices.com.
00:37:38
Speaker
And we're speaking trends right now.
00:37:40
Speaker
And he actually has a pinball price trend tab that consolidates this information.
00:37:45
Speaker
And he does actually...
00:37:47
Speaker
kind of in eras so electromechanical early solid state so let's take lcd based off of 2022 to 2023 we've seen a negative six percent decrease so the average pinball machine was selling around 10 grand as of 2022 so i'm assuming this is taking into account pros premiums and le's that's over 500 cells um
00:38:16
Speaker
And as of 2023, about half the cells, so 265, but we're at 9,500.
00:38:18
Speaker
So you can tell that there's a decrease there.
00:38:20
Speaker
Same with Stern DMD.
00:38:21
Speaker
So this is 99 to 15.
00:38:22
Speaker
2022 was about 7,800 per game.
00:38:32
Speaker
down to 7,000, about a 9% decrease.
00:38:36
Speaker
It's very interesting.
00:38:37
Speaker
Like, if you haven't checked out pinballprices.com, you should go check it out because there's a lot of this cool stuff.
00:38:41
Speaker
Like, even DMDs, like, they're not dropping as bad.
00:38:45
Speaker
It's 2%, but it's still a drop from what we've been seeing.
00:38:48
Speaker
And so, the interesting part is, like, alphanumeric, solid state, and electromechanical, or the onions are really retaining percentage or slightly going up.
00:39:00
Speaker
But then again, like,
00:39:01
Speaker
They're not making any more of them.
00:39:03
Speaker
They're not making any more.
00:39:04
Speaker
And really, it's, what, $500 to $1,000 for an EM.
00:39:10
Speaker
So it's not hard to really keep that maintained or push that a little higher.
00:39:15
Speaker
Right.
00:39:17
Speaker
But, yeah, there is that.
00:39:18
Speaker
So thanks, Ted, for reaching out and letting us know that.
00:39:21
Speaker
That price trends tab is pretty cool.
00:39:23
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see where everything lands at the end of the year.
00:39:27
Speaker
Maybe we should –
00:39:29
Speaker
come back around.
00:39:30
Speaker
Cause like I said, only about half the cells have been done, which makes sense.
00:39:32
Speaker
Cause we're a little over half the year now.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
Um, but yeah, it's pretty cool.
00:39:37
Speaker
So, okay.
00:39:39
Speaker
So what, what's your take though?
00:39:42
Speaker
Like I, denim.
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:44
Speaker
I,
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:46
Speaker
I, I'm so conflicted on this game because I want it to do well and I want them to be able to do more interesting things.
Future of DLC and Features in Pinball
00:39:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:57
Speaker
I'll tell you concerns about over-reliance on insider connected though.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:03
Speaker
It's you're getting into a possibility of a, of a DLC that,
00:40:09
Speaker
type thing where you have to go up and log into a machine and they're like, hey, if you want the extra packet to play this game fully, you have to pay another $30 on your personal account to activate it on a game on location.
00:40:31
Speaker
I don't know if that's really going to happen.
00:40:34
Speaker
So it's getting to the possibility that they could do that.
00:40:39
Speaker
That brings up a different concept in my mind.
00:40:41
Speaker
Would you be opposed to, because like obviously things are starting to trend down.
00:40:44
Speaker
We don't know exactly where the market's going, but it looks like it's going to be taking a dip for a little bit, right?
00:40:48
Speaker
Like economy's hard, yada, yada, yada.
00:40:52
Speaker
Would you be opposed to if yes, they went to DLC content, but they lowered the prices of the pinball machine.
00:40:59
Speaker
So essentially you're getting a cheaper pinball machine, but if you want the full game, you buy the DLC.
00:41:05
Speaker
That's well, that's the Rothrill's big buck hunter model.
00:41:10
Speaker
Correct.
00:41:10
Speaker
Would you be opposed to that then?
00:41:14
Speaker
I don't play enough to justify if it's like a monthly fee.
00:41:18
Speaker
So there's two questions.
00:41:21
Speaker
A.
00:41:21
Speaker
I buy it and I buy all a cart and then I have no time limitations on it.
00:41:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:27
Speaker
So like most video games, like most video games, right?
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:30
Speaker
If I buy Mario cart, I own Mario cart and I bought the, you know, when the super Mario movie came out and I bought the, uh, extra levels on Mario cart.
00:41:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
It was 20 bucks or something.
00:41:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:45
Speaker
What I do will season pass.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:48
Speaker
Something.
00:41:49
Speaker
So they slowly trickle out the DLC, but you, you automatically get it cause you paid for it up front.
00:41:53
Speaker
Right.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
And so, so that's fine.
00:41:56
Speaker
Would I have done that if they said, Hey, you need to pay five bucks a month in perpetuity to play this.
00:42:05
Speaker
I would say, no, I would not be interested in that because you are a hundred percent eliminating casual gamers on that.
00:42:14
Speaker
Um, I, and to be fair, I don't think pinball is as big on location with that model.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:24
Speaker
So I would, you would have to have a lot of things change for that to be a, a reasonable concern.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:34
Speaker
Um, I'm, I'm going to, I think that those are all valid points.
00:42:39
Speaker
Um, I'm going to revolve back to the question that you asked me about five minutes ago.
00:42:43
Speaker
of what do I think of Venom.
00:42:45
Speaker
I think the problem is there was a cluster of information.
00:42:50
Speaker
It wasn't the right information.
00:42:52
Speaker
They're not selling this properly, I feel like.
00:42:57
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:42:57
Speaker
It's going to be a slow burn.
00:42:59
Speaker
I think this game looks cool as heck, man.
00:43:01
Speaker
I really wish... Here's my problem.
00:43:06
Speaker
And I don't know if everyone feels like this, if you're in the same boat.
00:43:09
Speaker
I don't have space.
00:43:10
Speaker
Well, I guess I do have space, but I don't have extra money.
00:43:15
Speaker
And with the last couple pinball sells that have happened with me, with it being really weird and hard to get rid of and whatnot, and I know Ellen's next, I would rather hold off on Venom and see whatever Ellen's coming out with next to say, hey, is that what I want versus Venom?
00:43:34
Speaker
Because I would hate to buy Venom
00:43:37
Speaker
week of of elwyn's next game being shown they're like venom's getting into your house and then we have to figure out well crap what am i going to sell now like i've only got a couple months before i get elwyn's game in my house right so i just the problem is is the window is just too small i feel like uh on owning i guess a game and okay i'm getting to the point where i don't want to move stuff either so
00:44:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:03
Speaker
I will push back a little bit though, because we typically buy things after the, the main people.
00:44:13
Speaker
I, the bottom line is we, you know, Zach does sponsor us and we certainly are able to buy games from him, but we want him to sell to you guys first.
00:44:25
Speaker
So if he has, you know, another customer, then it's, we're not jumping to the front of the line.
00:44:32
Speaker
We actually, we defer and say, no, send it to those guys first.
00:44:36
Speaker
We'll wait.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:37
Speaker
So that may not be the situation for everybody.
00:44:40
Speaker
It may be the situation for us, but not for everybody.
00:44:43
Speaker
Correct.
00:44:44
Speaker
But still like, I just, I would hate to get venom in my house and like for like a month or two later, I'd have to get rid of it to get out one's
Personal Reflections and Market Conditions
00:44:53
Speaker
next game.
00:44:53
Speaker
Well, and yeah,
00:44:54
Speaker
Now you're saying that because we're assuming that Elwin will come out with another great game.
00:45:00
Speaker
True.
00:45:01
Speaker
Well, and that's the other part too, is like, I'm tired of moving pinball machines.
00:45:04
Speaker
I'm kind of to that point where it's like, well, I'm still in a situation where I need to move five down and five up.
00:45:10
Speaker
And I've been saying that for six weeks.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:14
Speaker
No, I get you.
00:45:16
Speaker
I think overall, like I said,
00:45:18
Speaker
I'm excited to see where this goes with Venom.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:21
Speaker
I think it's a positive direction in the homeowner's camp, right?
00:45:26
Speaker
Like, we still have this mentality of location, which is great.
00:45:30
Speaker
Like, there needs to be games on location because that is – that's where you test drive.
00:45:34
Speaker
And so – but I think this is more geared towards the homeowner, and I'm excited for that.
00:45:41
Speaker
I think –
00:45:43
Speaker
Outside of this game, I don't know.
00:45:46
Speaker
They're all starting to trend towards more depth, but games that aren't woodchoppy.
00:45:51
Speaker
And I'm really starting to... I really appreciate that.
00:45:54
Speaker
Overall, I just feel bad because, man, this game is really cool.
00:45:59
Speaker
But I don't have any desire to buy it right now because I feel like I'm stuck in limbo.
00:46:02
Speaker
I don't know if everyone else out there feels like that.
00:46:05
Speaker
Right.
00:46:06
Speaker
It's kind of a wait and see.
00:46:09
Speaker
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to be at Expo in October.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
And actually I, I feel bad.
00:46:14
Speaker
I actually just figured out it lands on our fall break.
00:46:20
Speaker
And that's one of the premium time offs that we can only let as a, you know, in my job, there's only so many people that can take the same time off and it's the same time all the kids are out of school.
00:46:32
Speaker
So everybody wants it.
00:46:34
Speaker
So I am not,
00:46:36
Speaker
available to go to expo this year which i'm totally bummed at so i will have to you know kind of wait and likely play this at texas yeah and by that time elwyn's should be out too yeah and i should be able to play a lot of games i actually i still haven't played foo fighters yet i need to go down down you need to come to my house i'll have it on monday absolutely road road trip to dinosaur land yeah because my birthday's on tuesday so oh there you go to me
00:47:04
Speaker
Happy birthday.
00:47:06
Speaker
Thanks.
00:47:07
Speaker
Well, I think that pretty much covers it for Venom.
00:47:09
Speaker
I want to hear what other people are thinking though.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:12
Speaker
So reach out, let us know.
00:47:14
Speaker
Are you thinking of buying it?
00:47:16
Speaker
Are, what are your thoughts?
00:47:17
Speaker
Are you, yes, I'm buying it.
00:47:19
Speaker
No, I'm not.
00:47:21
Speaker
I'm waiting to see.
00:47:23
Speaker
Or, you know, is there a possibility given more information that you would be interested in buying this?
Trends in Pinball Themes - Fighting Games and More
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:31
Speaker
That's my question is what's your current state?
00:47:34
Speaker
And like the game, having a phase change, are you open to purchasing it in the future given certain things?
00:47:45
Speaker
Okay, I'm actually going to throw one more thing out that I... Okay, this is the third fighting game.
00:47:53
Speaker
yeah and we have fighting game in a row isn't yeah because well we had pool and then we had infinity quest and so like the marvel things is are we getting over it well i'm i'm wondering if it still has that same vibe i mean godzilla's a fighting game you take on
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:16
Speaker
And I guess they're kind of all on that level, but this feels very similar.
00:48:21
Speaker
The, the goals are you are fighting this other superhero.
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:27
Speaker
True.
00:48:28
Speaker
Or super villain or whatever.
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:31
Speaker
Anyway, before we wrap this up, we did have a couple of emails.
00:48:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:36
Speaker
Jeff S. He just want to say he enjoyed our most recent episode.
00:48:40
Speaker
He appreciates that sometimes the jokes go over my head.
00:48:47
Speaker
And even though everyone has commented on the same topics, he enjoys our takes on them the most.
00:48:54
Speaker
But he just wanted for my benefit.
00:48:56
Speaker
He's like, he just wanted me to really know that sometimes you tell a good joke.
00:49:00
Speaker
Like the last one on our last episode was,
00:49:02
Speaker
mike's first name was magic and the problem was i think the thing is i'm trying to think ahead in the episode and trying to line stuff up so you're not listening next that's what you're saying i'm sorry i know i this is comedy gold here it is apparently it is we're getting emails about how the comedy like it even says let's see that is great humorous i do not need to tell scott so this is really for josh's benefit
00:49:27
Speaker
Okay, but that's not my favorite review, by the way.
00:49:31
Speaker
Oh, well, we got another one from Three Week.
00:49:35
Speaker
This Week in Pinball, just a new three-star review.
00:49:38
Speaker
Because we will read them, by the way.
00:49:40
Speaker
If we get reviews, we'll read them.
00:49:42
Speaker
Hosts don't seem like fun.
00:49:45
Speaker
We're a bit preachy and we'd love to mention we don't drink alcohol and when give a chance.
00:49:54
Speaker
I'm reading this straight.
00:49:55
Speaker
Like if you can't type your thoughts correctly.
00:49:57
Speaker
Sorry.
00:49:59
Speaker
Can't have some games in their house because of children?
00:50:04
Speaker
You, you're the parent and can make something off limits or play when the kids aren't around.
00:50:12
Speaker
Adam.
00:50:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:14
Speaker
By the way, Adam, I, I appreciate you taking time to write this.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate it.
00:50:19
Speaker
Because actually it does show something that you're actually listening and I'm totally fine with getting, with getting an average
Listener Feedback and Host Engagement
00:50:26
Speaker
review.
00:50:26
Speaker
If, if people are, if we're not for everybody and that's, that's fine.
00:50:32
Speaker
I will clarify that I,
00:50:35
Speaker
I don't care if people drink alcohol.
00:50:37
Speaker
I don't.
00:50:38
Speaker
It's, it's, I guess it's along those lines of, Hey, not my thing, but do your thing.
00:50:44
Speaker
If that's, if that's what you're, you're doing when we're at pinball conventions, a lot of times we are the,
00:50:50
Speaker
the few sober ones.
00:50:52
Speaker
And this is not me on a higher moral ground.
00:50:54
Speaker
I'm just saying other people are imbibing and I hang out with them and it's totally fine.
00:51:00
Speaker
I totally let them do that.
00:51:02
Speaker
And without any reservation, that's, that's their, that's their choice.
00:51:07
Speaker
With regard to some games, there are some movies I don't want to watch too.
00:51:11
Speaker
And there are some games that I don't want to buy because the theme is not for me.
00:51:15
Speaker
And maybe I just don't want those things too.
00:51:17
Speaker
And so I'm, I'm not just putting it on my kids, my kids, what I'm willing to have my kids experience are also the same things that I want to experience too.
00:51:28
Speaker
And so like, Hey, my friend has an amazing scared stiff that he, that he restored.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:34
Speaker
And it is a beautiful game and I love playing it at his house, but it's still not something, even if I had my own apartment without any family, you know, no, no young kids, no wife, I still probably wouldn't own it.
00:51:47
Speaker
And so, and that's fine.
00:51:48
Speaker
I, I want everybody to find the themes that, that they like.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:54
Speaker
Well, you know what makes me laugh too, Scott?
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:57
Speaker
You want the title.
00:51:57
Speaker
So I can't really reveal the information that's in the next email, but I can give you the title of the email.
00:52:04
Speaker
It just made me laugh.
00:52:05
Speaker
You ready for this?
00:52:07
Speaker
beers at expo question mark yes hey absolutely you know what i will i i go to bars with people i'm happy to uh yeah and someone is i'm happy to safely drive you home someone someone has invited us for for drinks yeah at a bar which i'm not opposed to that like it's anywho oh absolutely there's there's more information too we'll talk about later off screen but it's just funny because i was like we have a gentleman going off about like
00:52:34
Speaker
we're preachy about no alcohol.
00:52:36
Speaker
And then our next email is, and again, it's yours at expo.
00:52:40
Speaker
You're just getting basically a snapshot of Josh and my home life.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:44
Speaker
And I'm sure your home life is different than mine.
00:52:46
Speaker
So that's fine.
00:52:47
Speaker
Do you.
00:52:49
Speaker
And I love drew and Ian and I love the whole poor man's crew.
00:52:52
Speaker
I don't fault them for it's a different life.
00:52:54
Speaker
It's literally like the second they start, like what you drinking?
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:57
Speaker
I love that.
00:52:58
Speaker
I love the, like check out poor man's that may be your jam.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah, it really might be.
00:53:02
Speaker
Check it out, Adam.
00:53:03
Speaker
You might love it.
00:53:04
Speaker
So yeah,
00:53:05
Speaker
We still do retain our 5.0 rating, 5 out of 5, on This Week in Pinball, even though
Alternative Themes: Spider-Man Over Venom?
00:53:12
Speaker
we've got a three-star.
00:53:12
Speaker
All right.
00:53:13
Speaker
It's okay.
00:53:14
Speaker
We're still good.
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:16
Speaker
42 reviews.
00:53:18
Speaker
You know the number 42.
00:53:18
Speaker
Anyhow.
00:53:19
Speaker
That's the answer to everything, obviously.
00:53:21
Speaker
When are we going to get a Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy pin?
00:53:25
Speaker
Oh, man.
00:53:26
Speaker
Don't even tease me.
00:53:28
Speaker
George, make it happen.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:53:30
Speaker
Why isn't George re-theming this?
00:53:32
Speaker
You know, you, what's the number one thing I've heard about the George Fisher.
00:53:35
Speaker
Don't panic flip.
00:53:36
Speaker
Just check it out.
00:53:37
Speaker
Check it out.
00:53:38
Speaker
Uh,
00:53:40
Speaker
you what's the one number one thing I've heard in all this venom talk doesn't matter.
00:53:45
Speaker
I, you know, I've heard people say they love to why I've heard people say they don't, you know, they don't like his rule sets.
00:53:48
Speaker
I've heard, I've heard yada, yada, yada.
00:53:51
Speaker
The general consensus that everyone pretty much agrees upon at this point is this shouldn't have been venom.
00:53:55
Speaker
That should have been a Spider-Man across the spider verse.
00:53:59
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:54:00
Speaker
Now that's assuming that that license is available.
00:54:04
Speaker
And, um, and also, uh,
00:54:09
Speaker
economical.
00:54:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:11
Speaker
Cause that's a, that's a, that's an a-list, a list license.
00:54:15
Speaker
I saw people who watched the, the latest, uh, the across the spider verse or whatever it's, I, I didn't see it.
00:54:23
Speaker
Um, but I heard people posting, I just saw this generation's empire strikes back.
00:54:29
Speaker
That's a big deal.
00:54:31
Speaker
That is a big deal.
00:54:32
Speaker
So I, I do need to watch it.
00:54:34
Speaker
It's on my list, but yeah, I agree.
00:54:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:37
Speaker
We got some cool stuff lined up.
00:54:39
Speaker
Sadly, we can have some guests join us tonight, but you know what?
00:54:42
Speaker
Life is chaotic, especially during the summertime.
00:54:44
Speaker
So we will be having them on soon.
00:54:47
Speaker
I think things are going to slow down for a little bit, at least news-wise.
00:54:50
Speaker
I mean, things... It is what it is, but...
00:54:56
Speaker
Got anything else for Scott before we head off?
00:54:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:58
Speaker
I want, I want someone to go play venom and give me feedback.
00:55:02
Speaker
I want to know someone who experienced it.
00:55:04
Speaker
And that is definitely going to be a lot more than me watching the, you know, the reveal at comic-con.
00:55:12
Speaker
So if anyone's going down to San Diego comic-con, like let us know how it is playing down there.
00:55:17
Speaker
Cause you only need to, you live in the San Diego area.
00:55:21
Speaker
You don't need a ticket to get in.
00:55:22
Speaker
The arcade is free.
00:55:23
Speaker
Like if you did not hear that,
00:55:25
Speaker
You can get in.
00:55:26
Speaker
It's just in the lobby.
00:55:27
Speaker
So go play.
00:55:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:29
Speaker
And give us your thoughts.
00:55:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:31
Speaker
If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
00:55:35
Speaker
We are at loser kid pinball on all of our socials.
00:55:37
Speaker
That's Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, and Tik TOK, even though I haven't done any videos cause I'm not very good at that.
00:55:47
Speaker
I've got, I've got a face for podcast.
00:55:51
Speaker
take a lot of code.
00:55:52
Speaker
Hey, we are video though.
00:55:52
Speaker
If you want to watch us talk, you can look at my books and you can look at Josh's games.
00:55:57
Speaker
Exactly.
00:55:58
Speaker
And there was even some fun little pictures I inserted into the episode last episode.
00:56:03
Speaker
The save the cat episode.
00:56:04
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:56:05
Speaker
The title of this one's going to be Bugs Got a Booty.
00:56:08
Speaker
Bugs Got a Booty.
00:56:09
Speaker
Bugs Got a Booty.
00:56:14
Speaker
All right, Scott.
00:56:14
Speaker
You send us off.
00:56:16
Speaker
Love you guys.
00:56:17
Speaker
Thanks for listening and go and play pinball.
00:56:33
Speaker
Boost.
00:56:34
Speaker
Change the game.