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What Went WRONG in the Transfer Window? - Ep. 119
1.8k Plays9 days ago
The Secondary Transfer Window is officially over, and with the Seattle Sounders famously not making any moves, we take stock of Craig Waibel’s press conference this week at Lumen Field. Are we buying or selling the GM’s rationale for another window with no major movement? Later on, we go over Armchair Analyst Matt Doyle’s take on Seattle’s window, then talk about the most controversial storyline of Matchday 30 that took place in Vancouver’s matchup with St. Louis CITY SC.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Sounders Match Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Why the scorcher today? Well it's gonna be a scorcher.
00:00:23
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? Welcome in to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers.
Press Conferences and Transfer Talks
00:00:28
Speaker
We are recording this on Tuesday morning, right between the Seattle Sounders 5-2 win over Sporting Kansas City in Match Day 30 and their upcoming League's Cup semifinals matchup at the l LA Galaxy.
00:00:41
Speaker
ah We're going to be talking... Some Craig Wibes press conference transfer discourse. We got an agenda check to hit. And one little fun storyline from around Major League Soccer to get to.
Seattle Sounders and CONCACAF Champions Cup Stakes
00:00:55
Speaker
Noah, how you doing this morning? ah You know, I'm a little i'm a little tired, but and the grind never stops. it's It's what we say every time. But, like, you know, life is good. I can't complain. I've been taking it easy, so...
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, the content grind never stops. And, you know, the biggest game of the season, I would say, biggest game of 2025 is tomorrow. You know, you could say that the ah Club World Cup games against PSG and Atletico Madrid were higher profile than ah than a League's Cup semifinal. But there's a trophy on the line here and ah also a CCC spot on the line. I don't think we should forget that. You know, you got the prize money as well. But this is...
00:01:39
Speaker
I mean, Seattle are one game away from getting into CONCACAF Champions Cup next year.
Podcast Network and Subscription Benefits
00:01:45
Speaker
So it's a big game and it's high stakes times for the Seattle Sounders. ah We're going to be testing out our kind of new format for these shows once again ah on this one. I thought it went pretty well the last time, but, you know, with a with a tight turnaround in the game happening tomorrow.
00:02:03
Speaker
We're going to do our thing where we keep it a little more broad in scope and less about ah what happened in the games or what we expect to happen in the in the upcoming game. And luckily, we had ah Craig Wives had a press conference at Lumen Field before the Sporting KC game.
00:02:18
Speaker
ah So we're going to we're going to a little buy or sell action to start off the show. uh and then uh the armchair analyst matthew doyle actually just this morning released his uh transfer grades he went through every single team in major league soccer and gave them letter grades on uh how he thought that they did so we're gonna take a look at what he thought of the seattle sounders and we're gonna give our takes on uh on doyle's take as well so uh Let's get into it. But before we do all that, I do have to let you all know that Lobbings Quarters is, in fact, a part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network.
00:02:55
Speaker
If you want to get the best independent Seattle soccer coverage, consider supporting us by going to sounderatheart.com. What's that link now? sounderatheart.com slash L S. All you have to do is scroll down to subscribe and support to get 30 days completely free.
00:03:11
Speaker
Every sign up through our link helps support and grow this show. Uh, the road to 100 is merciful, mercifully finished. Uh, But now more than ever, it's a great time to become a member with the season in full swing.
00:03:26
Speaker
Subs, you know you get access to the audio-only versions of the live shows right to your podcast feed, which Lobbing Scorcher's Kickoff has actually been on the main podcast feed lately. So thanks everyone who's been listening to and downloading that.
00:03:42
Speaker
That's been exciting. ah Shout out to our sponsors, Hacks on Ferments, Podium Menswear and Edmonds, Full Pull Wines, My Data Removal. ah And please follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and sub to the YouTube Road to 3K slowly but surely. We're working on that. I believe we have a couple new Sounder Heart subs this week.
00:04:02
Speaker
We do. We got two new Sounder Heart subs, Brandon DeWitt and Pat Column. Thank you so much for subbing, for supporting Lobbing Scorchers, and the greatest Seattle soccer sports media ever created, Sounder Heart.
00:04:18
Speaker
Shout out Brandon and Pat. we are We really appreciate the support. all ah All
Craig Wibes' Press Conference Analysis
00:04:24
Speaker
right. should we ah Should we talk some Craig Wibes presser? Let's do it. All right. Yeah. So like I said, Craig Wibes, Seattle Sounders general manager, somewhat controversial and polarizing famously yeah in these parts.
00:04:36
Speaker
ah He had a press conference at Lumen Field ahead of the Sporting KC game. Sort of, ah you know, and end of transfer window rat That every GM and every sporting director, that's kind of that's kind of how they do it. I wasn't sure if Craig was going to do it. He waited a little longer than some of these other guys. You had Chris Hendo and and and company out there like three or four days before this.
00:05:00
Speaker
But he did work it in before the Sporting KC game. Uh, and it was, you know, a lot of times when you sign a player in the transfer window, these are kind of celebratory occasions.
00:05:13
Speaker
They have the player with them. They bring the Jersey, you're taking photos and everyone's like, Hey, new player. new but not That was not the case for the Seattle Sounders at the end. Way less fun.
00:05:24
Speaker
Of this transfer window. it was not ah It was not a celebratory occasion like that. As we know, ah the Seattle Sounders for a fourth straight summer transfer window did not make a move. But it was different this year.
00:05:38
Speaker
was different this year because ah they had they actually they had more flexibility than they have in years past. They had a budget, ostensibly. We're going to talk about that. They had time. they had So they had the space, the money, and the time to make a move, and they did not. A lot of people aren't happy about that.
00:05:58
Speaker
We've been talking about that a lot. ah But, you know, what did Craig Wibes have to say about that? So that's what we're going to talk about. I've transcribed kind of paraphrased transcriptions of a few of his quotes. knowa We're going to a little buy or sell action.
00:06:13
Speaker
new ah New segment. I don't know if we've done a buy or sell on... Definitely not the people on a Craig Weibs press. Basically, I'm just going to ah read my paraphrased transcriptions of his quotes, get giving giving the general idea of the points he was making. And we're just going to say, do we buy or sell?
00:06:31
Speaker
buy Are we buying... what Craig way Craig Wives is selling or are we selling what he's selling? So we're always selling what he's selling. Uh, let's, uh, let's get into it. I'll, uh, I'll lay down the first Craig Wives quote here, which is that it was on the topic of the budget because i think that's sort of been one of the crux issues of all of this.
00:06:56
Speaker
What is the budget? Is there a budget? And if there is a budget, is the budget enough to realistically land uh, a high level player that can contribute to the team. Craig wives has been saying that ah he, they were very intent on finding a player who could contribute right away.
00:07:12
Speaker
He said repeatedly in this press conference, like not looking for a project player looking for, said we have a lot of projects. Yeah. We have a lot of projects. We're looking for someone who can come in and contribute right away.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I think the kind of tension there is it's like, all right, well that requires money. requires a lot of money to to buy ah and especially with like a u22 situation like this where players of this profile that would be ready to contribute in mls right away are also as craig weibs talked about like just inevitably going to be on the target list of clubs in leagues that are rated higher or at least are higher profile globally than MLS. So you're, you're not competing with rando leagues. You're competing with like top six leagues or just leagues that at the very least are on par of the profile and quality and sort of pull
00:08:11
Speaker
of MLS. So what did what did Craig wives have to say about the issue of the budget? ah No, he said it wasn't an issue. He said that that it was this is not a budget issue. He even gave a number, which I thought was kind of sick.
00:08:23
Speaker
He gave a number. He said we had about two point five to four million dollars, which he described as a good budget for attracting a player that would most likely contribute. He also said, we were maxim again, paraphrasing slightly, but this is pretty much what he said. He said, we were maximizing what we have.
00:08:40
Speaker
We had a U-22 spot. We did not have $3 million dollars to spend on the roster. We exhausted all avenues where we thought players could come in and contribute this year.
U22 Player Strategy Debate
00:08:50
Speaker
Noah, when you hear him say budget wasn't an issue and that they were given $2.5 to $4 million dollars to try in fill this spot.
00:08:58
Speaker
Uh, are you buying or selling? I think that there's, Ooh, this is a tough one because I think he's being honest, but I think he's kind of shooting himself in the foot at the same time. We, I mean, i if I'm a GM, I would never admit that, that you were like, yeah, we had a great budget and everything was great.
00:09:17
Speaker
So, you know what I'm going to say? I'm going to say, I'm, I'm not buying it. I'm selling this. I'm selling this idea uh, At least the first part, which is the budget wasn't an issue.
00:09:30
Speaker
Two and a half to four million dollars for a player. i think the crux of his idea was that with the U22 spot, you can only pay them up to, what, $750,000 year or something like that. And that's important to to note.
00:09:45
Speaker
So he's like, if you really dig into the numbers and look at it, you go find me a player that transfer fees for that amount of money that also is on is under that cap number.
00:09:58
Speaker
Well, I'm going to be honest with you, Craig. ah I can agree with that. I can agree that I'm sure that there's there's some truth to that. You're day in and day out doing that, and I have no reason to believe that you would be lying because you're with with saying this, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot and saying...
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah, we had the budget, we had the means this time, but we just couldn't do it. you know ah So if you think that that's a good budget to find someone who can contribute, why didn't you loan a player?
00:10:25
Speaker
like If the if if if the the salary cap issue of $700 and whatever thousand dollars a year was too much, and you were trying to find someone who would contribute...
00:10:37
Speaker
And maybe you could find a loan a loan option with a buy. i don't know. what What about that? No one asked about that. So I don't i don't really know ah what's going on there. But i just i I'm not buying exactly that you can get a From what Craig said himself, which was and MLS is a top 10 league and you're competing with six, seven, and eight, ah and sometimes even higher leagues. So you're competing with Serie A, Erdovice, all these European clubs for players that this number, even on that wage restriction, is going to get you a player that's actually going to contribute meaningful minutes and be able to play. I don't know if I'm buying that with that budget.
00:11:24
Speaker
Um, but Hey, you know, he knows more than me. I just, it surprised me, I guess, to, to have him come out and say that because is that not you just saying that you're like, you didn't do your job?
00:11:41
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, i guess I'm selling the notion that it wasn't an issue at all. Like, I think when it's ah when it's a situation where ah you have this criteria that you've set, which is that you need someone to contribute right away, that's more expensive.
00:12:04
Speaker
And I think it's clear that there was an issue of the types of profiles of players that they could target within this budget didn't align. Right.
00:12:15
Speaker
With the types of players who they are saying that they need profile wise to fill this, this spot. Like you would have to, you would have to shell out a lot more than 2.5 to four to, to,
00:12:29
Speaker
four to realistically, it seems fine targets that fit the criteria that you set. You see what I'm saying? So ah in terms of if it was actually 2.5 to 4,
00:12:45
Speaker
that's not that's not terrible if that was the actual number that they were that they were given like I don't think that that's they're definitely not broke they're definitely not broke if that was the actual number but it it kind of it just it kind of feels like a situation where it's it's self-set criteria that you would need more than that right to actually find realistic targets.
00:13:09
Speaker
And it just feels like there's just kind of mismatch on the criteria that they set for themselves and the amount of money that it would take to get that type of player. And that seems like the sort of tension and that they were,
00:13:22
Speaker
dealing with the whole time with this. And that's sort of what contributed to the end result, which is them not ah not signing anybody. So I guess it's nice to hear that they're theoretically not broke. And I'm glad they had 2.5 to 4 for the search.
00:13:39
Speaker
But it see doesn't it seem clear based on the final outcome that that wasn't enough? Now, if they if that budget was more like 4 to 6.5 or something, or something I don't know if that guarantees that they find a player that they could have got over the line, but it would make it more likely, would it not?
00:13:57
Speaker
so i think and i yeah i think it's I think it's just because it was a decent number, that doesn't mean it was like a non-issue, I guess, is how I kind of... agree with you. i think that it's... Also, you knew that you just raked in $9 million dollars from the Club World Cup. We know exactly how much went to the players.
00:14:17
Speaker
Essentially, $2.5 $4 million dollars of the Club World Cup money was going to this. You know there was more flexibility there. like You knew that there was more. and you know I think Craig even said it was like, it's he wasn't even if there was like the perfect player, he wasn't going outside of this budget. and I don't know if the transfer fee at the end of the day is exactly the problem, considering... like the higher the transfer fee you're still going to have to convince the player to come and play in mls on seven hundred thousand dollars a year that yeah yeah like that's that i can i can um kind of like understand and respect but i just like i i think it's uh if it's not an issue
00:15:06
Speaker
you should have gotten something done. If that transfer fee in and that budget and you saying that it's a good budget to to attract these players, then you failed.
00:15:17
Speaker
Then you failed at your job. And and like saying that you had like such a specific... ah We weren't going to sign someone just to sign someone, but you did have five targets that you got all the way down the road and talked to, but couldn't convince to come here.
00:15:33
Speaker
I'm not a Craig Weibel hater by any means, but I think like if we are to buy what he's saying here, which is we had all of the resources we could have asked for and wanted and needed.
00:15:46
Speaker
We just couldn't do it. Is that not like kind of a, I don't know. I guess I keep just replaying this in my head. I'm just shocked that he said it like this. big yeah I don't know.
00:15:59
Speaker
yeah I mean, if I was, if I was just devil's advocating, you know, absolutely devil's advocating for the, uh, sake of discussion. Like we, we don't know what went on behind the scenes in these negotiations with these targets.
00:16:14
Speaker
And at the end of the day, you're, you're beholden to, what these guys want for themselves in their careers. And you're inherently in a situation where, ah like, I think the situation with Noah Ohio is kind of indicative of where a lot of these players of this profile are in their careers.
00:16:31
Speaker
He's a guy who still sees himself as a player who can make it in Europe and ah convincing him at his age and at his point in his career that right now is the time to come to major league soccer.
00:16:45
Speaker
You're fighting an uphill battle. But I guess... what It seems like it's an uphill battle that is ah kind of inflicted on yourself in a certain sense, like creating a criteria that's extremely hard to meet.
00:17:02
Speaker
ah But also, like, if they had gotten someone over the line that didn't meet that criteria and was more of a project player, as Craig put it, you know, it would ah it would have satisfied the
Recruitment Focus: Europe vs. South America
00:17:15
Speaker
masses. The fan base would have liked it Would that player actually meaningfully make a difference on this team's ability to compete and contend for trophies this year?
00:17:27
Speaker
i think we're probably we're probably oh kidding ourselves to to think that that's especially likely. I do think that. And, you know, i think a... ah I, you know, i've I've looked at a lot of the U22s that have come in the league recently to see I can get a gauge on the on the hit rate and just the impact that these guys make.
00:17:49
Speaker
And it's just it's just not cut and cut and dry. i thought it was interesting. We were talking on Lobbing Scorchers kickoff yesterday after Nico split. ah Someone in chat brought up David Martinez, who it was interesting to look at his time in MLS because yeah wouldn't you agree that he's pretty much like the highest pedigree.
00:18:12
Speaker
You 22 like in terms of how he's thought of globally prospect wise, the type of ceiling he has, the type of clubs that are interested in him. He's probably going to end up going to like Bayern Munich or who have looked at him already or Manchester City or something. He's going to do. He's going to.
00:18:29
Speaker
go to a huge club for a crazy fee because he is just that talented. We saw that in Seattle when he scored that crazy goal where he literally ran through the entire Sounders defense from midfield and scored a goal at age 19 weighing 117 pounds.
00:18:45
Speaker
like So that that is it that is, and it was a huge story, big excitement when they signed him. it was like, oh, this is the LAFC have done it again. If you look at his output since he's been on on that team, he has three goals, one is assist this year, and he's played about 900 minutes.
00:19:06
Speaker
And, you know, you listen to Happy Foot, Sad Foot, too. they He's like a source of frustration for them. They talk about him the way that we kind of used to talk about Leo Chu. And Leo Chu actually has like four times the goal contributions in MLS.
00:19:17
Speaker
that Dobby Martinez does. Yeah, a lot more minutes, but like i'm just I'm just saying, ah like i mean, to be fair, you can think that the profile of ah player is like that high pedigree, and it just doesn't always pan out like that, is my point.
00:19:32
Speaker
Someone did point, who whoever we we were talking about it with, was pointing out that like, ah you know, if you look at his under the hood numbers and stuff, like he's grading out really well, which is fine. But I think the ultimate way that this is judged is how much do you, how much does he actually move the needle for, for LAFC?
00:19:50
Speaker
ah in terms of their ability to to compete week in, week out, but also like for trophies. And I don't think that it has panned out like that. And that doesn't mean he's not a great prospect or a good player that's going to do great things in his career.
00:20:06
Speaker
It just means that... like when we're specifically talking about this mechanism, U22s, it is even more of a dart throw than your average transfer. which and And you can think that you have it all lined up on the on the pedigree and prospect status, and it just doesn't always pan out.
00:20:23
Speaker
Which makes no sense to me why Craig Weibel and company are are decided that this U22 spot has to go to a player who needs to contribute immediately.
00:20:36
Speaker
That's part of the issue is this criteria. The criteria, yeah. Yeah, like when in the past have they ever said that? they let They let their $7 million U-22, he was a U-22, young designated player, whatever the the old mechanism was. And Pedro de la Vega, they said, he doesn't have to do anything.
00:20:55
Speaker
He can just show up every day and practice and be happy and learn. And we're so excited. Yeah. What happened to that? they David Martinez is, I really don't think that he's as bad of a player looking on the outside. I'm sure as a day in day out fan, you're just as frustrated as Pedro de la Vega, right?
00:21:13
Speaker
But in leaks cup, I don't know if this is just this year or whatever, but in League's Cup, he played 77 minutes total across his whole time in MLS, and he has three goals.
00:21:24
Speaker
So, I mean, that's... Or I'm sorry, 230 minutes and three goals. So, six goals... With l LAFC in 23, 28 matches.
00:21:39
Speaker
I mean, that's, that's not amazing, but that's better than Jesus Ferreira. That's more goals than Jesus Ferreira. That's more goals than, you know, ah a lot of you 22 players.
00:21:50
Speaker
um And his value is around, um, he He moved for around $3.2 million. And I guess ah all of this is to say... um i have two questions, I guess, around it.
00:22:03
Speaker
Maybe to pose to you, just in general, to me. um One... It seems like the Sounders were targeting European players really heavily. Almost exclusively.
00:22:14
Speaker
yeah Which makes... And Nico brought this up on kickoff and in in private. Why? They are always going to command a higher fee.
00:22:25
Speaker
They are always going to be harder to get. They are less likely to come to MLS because there is a lot of paths for them to continue to play in Europe, which is just, unfortunately, it's that the reality is it's generally considered a much better place to play.
00:22:43
Speaker
And whether that's true or not, the pedigree is still there. And so you have South American players who are now very excited to come to MLS because they see the path. They see the path of I can come here. I'm still making good money.
00:22:56
Speaker
and MLS is a great league. ah and And Central and South American players are able to launch their careers off of this and play for some of the biggest clubs in the world.
00:23:07
Speaker
And so I guess I'm confused as to, one, why that was the case of youth you only think that there's... I don't know if they only think that there's players in ah and Europe that are going to immediately come in and and play amazing.
00:23:21
Speaker
But, like, why was that such a heavy target? You already have such a hard, like... ah ah scaffolding around like the player that you have to sign.
00:23:34
Speaker
Why is that? I just I don't know. I don't get it. I guess maybe there are other players who weren't like talked about. But from what I heard, all of the reporting was mainly they were targeting Europe. And that was yeah on purpose, which I don't know how you feel about that. But for me, I'm I'm a little like perplexed. I wish that someone would have asked Craig about that at the presser.
00:23:58
Speaker
If I had to guess the reason that they were scouting Europe so heavily and not South America because like you know in their in their scouting process, they probably figured that for this criteria of an immediate contributor, non-project type of player, that's where they were seeing the most players that they felt like hit that...
00:24:18
Speaker
hit that profile i imagine i mean i don't know but i imagine that if they had scouted up south america which you i know they do like they're definitely at least keeping tabs and they keep tabs everywhere all over the world so i think they clearly there was clearly a point where they were like the types of players that we're looking for can be found here and probably not as much here so we're gonna look here So, i mean, i mean i don't i don't know what they what they saw in that or why that they took that path.
00:24:51
Speaker
ah But I guess for me, it's more less than where they were scouting. i think as we talk through it, it's more just about this criteria of that they can't be a project player Like, the more I think about this, the more it's like, I think a U22 is pretty much inherently a project player. It's always a project project player. that like that sort of project That's sort of what I was that was, the point I was getting at with ah bringing up David Martinez.
00:25:16
Speaker
He has the most pedigree of arguably any U22 that's come into the league. And he's still, at the very least, like, you're right, he yeah he's got some okay production. But he's a project player. Yeah.
00:25:28
Speaker
He, uh, he has a lot of like really incredible, awesome individual moments. Uh, but if you look at his full track record, he definitely is not like impacting games or, uh, consistently helping run the offense to high effect as, as Jesus Ferrer or like some of the other points of comparison you brought up. Like, yeah, it's, it's, there's like consistency issues there. And like, uh,
00:25:58
Speaker
they have to They have to bring him along, and it's that's probably going slower than LAFC hoped. they I think when they brought in a player that of that pedigree, they probably were hoping that he would be an instant contributor in the type of way that ah Craig Wives is talking about for the Sounders targets.
00:26:15
Speaker
i When they signed him and I read up on him, i was like, this kid probably is going to rip up MLS right away. And um he's been he's he's been solid. He's been okay. He's not like lit league. He's not ripped him out.
00:26:28
Speaker
Or been like... ah He has not met the Craig Weibes criteria. um And there's just not many U22s that have. The only... Okay, like Dejan Jovulic is the famous one. The outlier.
00:26:41
Speaker
There's not that many... that you could point to other than there's, there's some, I did the show a couple months ago where we went, yeah you guys should go back and watch that. Craig should have watched that, but like there are, there are, there were more names actually, but like the, the Timbs before Santi Santiago Moreno rage quit the team.
00:27:01
Speaker
He was, like he was looking like a, uh, a hit in that regard. And he really, to my memory, did not take all that long to hit the ground running. So it's like, that's one example of, of using this mechanism on a player that I'm, I'm sure like if we're comparing profiles,
00:27:21
Speaker
Like Craig Wives and the club brass were looking for a player like Santi Moreno, less than what Davi Martinez has turned out to be.
Striker Depth and Future Planning
00:27:31
Speaker
Santi Moreno came from South America, though.
00:27:34
Speaker
I'll point out. Famously. Yeah. So, ah that is an example of another club finding, the type of profile that Seattle was ostensibly looking for and doing so successfully. So it can't be done.
00:27:49
Speaker
Uh, but I do think that if they really got to the end of the search and we're like, we're talking about, ah the David Martinez end of the spectrum more than the Santi Moreno end of the spectrum, then i then I do buy the notion. I do buy the notion that they, they should not make a signing just to appease people and just to sign somebody. And just to say they spent money. Like I, I really don't want, and I, I do trust the fact that like, if they felt like that they had that player, they, they would have, uh,
00:28:25
Speaker
I mean, we they did try and pull the trigger on Noah Ohio because they felt like he was that type of guy. I still think they did pull the trigger on Noah Ohio, to be fair. They got him. He just decided not to come here.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah. Which is part of the problem of what I'm saying, which like... It's mismatch in criteria. Yeah. like and you're you're what yeah and And I think that Jeremiah asked this, or maybe it was me. I don't remember who asked this at that presser, but they asked like...
00:28:53
Speaker
you know is your scouting criteria, like or not scouting criteria, but your methodology, the way that you're approaching these players and you're approaching these situations, does that need to change based on this? That's a more interesting discussion to me. Yeah, you got down the road with five players who ostensibly you either had an agreement with the club, an agreement with the agent, or an agreement with both.
00:29:18
Speaker
And the player didn't want to come or it got nixed by someone higher up in the organization or it got like these were all things that happened this season where like You know, i just I just I don't quite get what happened there. Like you're not able to sell the the club. Like, I guess we'll just jump into that conversation a little bit. Maybe ah one thing i wanted to hit before we do, though, is like just closing out the hyper focus on this player who needs to be able to contribute day in and day out.
00:29:53
Speaker
We are seeing Osaze come in and play and play well and play okay, but he's not he's not a superstar. you know He's still raw.
00:30:04
Speaker
He's just contributing. You're telling me that you can't find a player ah that can contribute to a similar level of Osaze de Rosario? i'm not I'm not saying that that's easy or that that's hard or that's anything. I'm just saying that like you're taking a risk because there is no depth left at Stryker and you're trying to create a plan ah after Jordan Morris, after Danny Musavsky. Because in my opinion...
00:30:32
Speaker
you're not going to be able to keep Danny Musavsky on a number that's reasonable on the Seattle Sounders. And I think that's a good thing, one, for Danny Musavsky. I think he should move on and be ah be a starter somewhere. Why not? After this season?
00:30:44
Speaker
We could talk about that later. ah But I just i don't understand how you're looking at the roster right now and going, we're not planning for the future. Because that was something he said. He's like, we're not planning for the future. We're planning for people who we can play right now.
00:31:00
Speaker
what what Why? Why not? You are playing the future right now because Jordan Morris is injured. Danny Musavsky is suspended. And it's Osazi de Rosario. The only person behind them right now that actually can play the nine is Jesus Ferreira, who, like I've said before, I think it's a detriment to the rest of the positions that he plays because he is just so much more talented at playing the 10 or playing the wing that like when you put him at the nine, you're effectively like neutering his ability.
00:31:29
Speaker
You have no other plan. You have no other plan. Yusuke Nome, he's like a false nine. He can't really do it It's not really his thing. I'm just, I'm so confused at the whole like necessity for a U22 to come in and contribute immediately.
00:31:44
Speaker
And then this like obsession with, uh, the, the, the Europe thing. But I guess we can talk about the process. Like, well, I would get down the road to five players. I would say, first of all, like, uh,
00:31:58
Speaker
it it can't It can't be a player who's... similar in profile and what you think that will produce to Osase. It has to be a player need to compliment that you are fully confident is better than Osase.
00:32:12
Speaker
Otherwise, like I think otherwise it's pointless. You may as well just give those minutes to Osase. So like, I think Noah, in the case of Noah, Ohio, they were clearly confident that he was of the quality that he could come in and contribute at a level that was,
00:32:29
Speaker
higher than what they felt like they can get out of Osaze. hu But any player who doesn't, who they don't believe that about, I don't think it is a smart use of resources to just get a number nine that you think can, that is like a similar level to what you already you have. I think that's sort of- agree, but also Osaze is 24 and he's had a lot of seasons already in other leagues. Like he's pretty like- he's pretty ah He's pretty far along on his journey. It's a unique situation because he hasn't gotten a lot of like run in top flight leagues other than the ah Canadian Premier League, which is a young league that I don't really know how much to read into him dominating that league.
00:33:16
Speaker
And then it was like grinding MLS next pro for a while. But I will. I think the yeah early returns from how he's looked ah for the first team have been good. I know he's missed a couple of good chances in the last couple games, but he does have three goals, all comps.
00:33:32
Speaker
He scored a go ahead goal in Atlanta. He bammed on Cruz Azul. He bammed on the. Tijuana in a really big spot. So that i just don't see he is doing he's doing the type of stuff that a developmental project U22, if they were doing that, people would say that it's going well. like I think that is fair to point out.
00:33:53
Speaker
and No, I agree. But I don't know if he's like... I agree with you in the fact that you need you need a compliment. You need a different set of skills. you need And we talked about this. You need a more dynamic player, Rui Diaz-esque player.
00:34:07
Speaker
not in Not being Rui Diaz, but you know just a more technical, more more lethal, more just like Pedro de la Vega, chaos in the box agent. you know I love what Osaze brings and his just physical stature, his heading ability. You know, he is kind of Moose-esque.
00:34:26
Speaker
He's like a Moose-Morris blend. They put them both in a blender and then that's what you got. And I just... But I just also truly think that, like... at his development stage, at his age, you're telling me you couldn't find a player who can't compete with him for minutes that's under 22?
00:34:43
Speaker
twenty two i was It's not about competing with him for minutes. It's about he needs to be a lot better and a lot more productive like right away. That's how they're thinking of it. I guess. i and and i and i Yeah, like I think you're right there sort how they're thinking about it I guess I just disagree because you have no other depth You have no other depth.
00:35:00
Speaker
There's no more striker depth. It's gone. It's like it is like i had the agenda of like, you know, maybe maybe they don't need a U22 number nine after all. Maybe they should sign. yeah Maybe they should sign a center mid. But like now you're in this situation. And I think League's Cup underscores why that would like no Ohio would have been nice to have. her Right.
00:35:18
Speaker
Like I was at that. Like, I don't, yeah, my, uh, my agenda on that might not, he should sign both. Uh, but, uh, I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll see. There's, there's kind of, there's kind of a lot of pressure on the Osase thing. I think he's going to start tomorrow and, uh, he's going to bam.
00:35:35
Speaker
He's going
Budgeting and Roster Management Evaluation
00:35:36
Speaker
to bam. I think he's going to bam. Like it's the, it's the 2025 LA galaxy. There's going to be chances there. So it's just a matter of if he bams them and he, you know, uh,
00:35:49
Speaker
He's shown a propensity for doing so. So, but I mean, let's let's see what he's got. I mean, maybe I'm more maybe bought into Osaze than others. I really like what I've seen from him so far. And I do think that, like, if if you have a striker who gets into good spots and gets high percentage looks as often as he seems to...
00:36:11
Speaker
ah you're probably going to get the production eventually, even though like I know the last couple games haven't looked as good, so maybe that's coloring how people think of it. ah But we're going to get wherere the the Leagues Cup, this game tomorrow, the rest of the tournament with Moose suspended, famously.
00:36:28
Speaker
We're going to get some more more data points on that, and then there's the rest the season. And Osazi's going to lift a trophy. It could happen. it It could happen. ah let's Let's hit one more little ah Craig Weib thing. Let's hit two. Let's hit two. Come on.
00:36:42
Speaker
Feed the guy in here. only have one more written down. Oh, yeah. All right. I guess. All right. I can break this into two. I'm going to read I read out my paraphrase transcription. He said in terms of exhausting the search, we did it. Thousands of profiles, agents, players.
00:36:58
Speaker
ah But then he he brought up the galaxy. You saw how galaxy got decimated. They had no money to carry over. They had to clean house because they didn't budget or plan ahead for that. We know for a fact that happens to us if we spend every penny and don't win a championship.
00:37:10
Speaker
He did say that he if you could guarantee him a championship, he would do the same thing. But you know, those things aren't guaranteed. So uh we know for a fact that happens to us we spend every penny and don't win a championship some of the strategy is making sure we can keep the team together we need a rainy day fund in order to keep the most important players here uh no are you buying or selling that rationale for uh a what is perceived as a conservative approach to roster management um Because you were you were the you were the you were the king of the Wilkunts.
00:37:42
Speaker
Like, he didn't do what Craig Weibull is talking about. I agree with Craig Weibull in the Galaxy slander and the Wilkunts slander because he's correct about that. Wilkunts is a terrible general manager, and I'm very thankful that we have Craig Weibull and not Wilkunts because I don't believe in selling for one trophy. I don't believe that. I don't believe that anyone in the Galaxy fan base would tell you, well, maybe some,
00:38:07
Speaker
But I don't know, whatever. but I think they all would tell you that they would withstand a season like this if if it guaranteed an MLS go. But they have six of them, you know? So it's like, eh, you know, whatever.
00:38:19
Speaker
um I'm just kidding. um i I'm selling the idea that they need a... that they're... that They need a rainy day fund in order to keep the most important players here because they're not doing it.
00:38:32
Speaker
They're not doing it. They're not doing it. They need to re-sign Paul Rothrock if they want to re-sign Paul Rothrock. Haven't gotten that deal done. Haven't gotten that deal done or just continuing to let him cook and rack up numbers and numbers and numbers instead of getting that deal done.
00:38:45
Speaker
Obed Vargas, why is he not on a U-22? You didn't sign a player. Why did you not go out and give him his max U22 contract and keep him happy?
00:38:56
Speaker
That's ridiculous. There is a possibility, Ari, that because of this, he walks away and the Sounders get $0 on a transfer fee. That is possible. That is possible. You also have other players.
00:39:09
Speaker
Danny Musavsky is going to need a new contract if you want to keep him. right you have ah You have the the the the idea that Paul Arriola is going to be coming back from injury. What do you do with that? What do you do with Ryan Kent?
00:39:23
Speaker
What do you do with all of these things? right So to say that... you know um We need a rainy day fund, but then to also say, oh, we don't have any money to spend on regular players.
00:39:35
Speaker
We can't figure that out. um And you know we're future planning, but we're not actually doing that. Reed Baker Whiting, Reed Baker Whiting. are you going to do with Reed Baker Whiting? are you goingnna Are you going to sell him? Are you you going to re-sign him to a contract?
00:39:48
Speaker
There's been no movement in a lot of these things we've known for a year or two. What what do you what do you you can't tell me that you have a rainy day fund to keep your most important players and then there is no movement on keeping your most important players or maybe they're not your most important players but it's it's it's it's. the On one hand, you have a perfect budget and it's super big and you're super great and there's no problems at all with money.
00:40:15
Speaker
And then also at the same time, no, we need to keep some of this ah stuffed away. But also, he says in another quote part, we we we we're not like around here just like not spending money. My job is to spend as much of the cap as physically possible.
00:40:32
Speaker
I don't know. i don't understand what he's trying to say here. Like, they're not doing that. ah I think that some of the stuff you bring up is stuff that if they were to be like categorized as questions for the offseason more than inseason, would I guess I can understand that, but I will say like your point is, a is taken in terms of like, they do need to get some of this stuff like done and there's not really that much of a reason to to wait. I mean, maybe how the search for this U22 played into how they were thinking of stuff like, ah like what you mentioned with Obed or um RBW and ah for all we know, like,
00:41:15
Speaker
There could be movement going on behind this the scenes with stuff like that right now. But yeah, Rothrock, Moose, like you said, Paul Areola, Ryan Kent, like those are decisions that are going to have to be made. so and don't know what Hays-Berr's contract looks like. We don't know what his raising salary, like we don't know anything about that.
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, and like a lot of that is going to be ironed out, I have to think, over the offseason. But there is stuff that you can get ahead of. Like, Paul Rothrock, with every good game he has, with every goal contribution he gets, he's earning more money. Moose is already at a point where it's like, I think you're probably He's not going to be here next year. Well, we were talking about this. Did we find out if he has an option or not? I don't.
00:42:02
Speaker
I don't know. I heard on kickoff you were talking about it. We were talking about it and I didn't clarify it. so that's yeah Regardless, I don't see how he's here if you have to give him a new contract next year.
00:42:15
Speaker
i don't see i don't see how that's possible. Because, i mean, he has a right to ask for as much money as a forward who is probably going to end this season with 20 plus goals all comps, which no player in the history of the club.
00:42:28
Speaker
Not Obafemi Martins, not Clint Dempsey, not Jordan Morris, not Raul Ruiz Diaz. Danny Musavsky is the one who's going to hit 20. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Car before the horse a little bit. He's at, what, 16?
00:42:43
Speaker
He's at 15, I want to say. 15, yeah. Okay. it's it's It's, I think, way more than likely that he at least, I can't imagine he ends with any less than, like, 18 or 19, which at that point is still, like, an elite number. Okay.
00:42:58
Speaker
Oh, I mean, his production's elite, no matter what no matter what way you slice it. like at this And honestly, if I was one of these teams that's like struggling for you know a foundation, ah like culture, identity... ah i don't know if he's a c culture guy, but...
00:43:15
Speaker
Well, i in terms of like having like proven known players like that you have seen do it in the league and you know can do it in the league, not necessarily in the... Makes the opportunities. Makes the most of his opportunities, like worked hard to get to where he's at type stuff.
00:43:33
Speaker
Man, like i was I was just thinking about this. like ah A club like... ah like who are these like Atlanta or Toronto, you would be so well served to,
00:43:46
Speaker
ah like build around players like Moose, as opposed to a manual $22 million dollars latte loss who like, I've been having a great time, like doing the tracker on that this season. Moose now has more than double the goals.
00:43:59
Speaker
So the point, the point is there's a lot of teams that could use a player like him. Like, I mean, yeah, any team could use a number nine who scores like that, but like, it's also like you don't have to, it's a way that you can get reliable players.
00:44:13
Speaker
production theoretically without having to drop drop drop some crazy bag on a number nine who's not even going to outproduce him you know and the sounders may want to keep him they may very well want want to try and keep him i don't know if it's going to be possible but that's a whole nother thing right of like figuring out how you're going to keep him how do you i just i i don't theres This has
Transfer Window Criticism and Risk-Taking
00:44:35
Speaker
been two years. There's been times when you could have extended Reed in last offseason or whatever. there's just They don't even communicate it.
00:44:42
Speaker
They don't even communicate like, listen, we didn't make a U22 signing in this window, and that's that sucks, and that's we understand your frustration, but we're going to take our time now and our spots and our energy and focus on keeping this team together and putting all of our resources and energy towards...
00:45:03
Speaker
keeping the team together and allowing us extra space for next year. So we can go out and get, you know, even more. And he i just like, he did the thing again at the beginning of this press conference where he's like, well, you know, I don't want to I don't want to I didn't say you want to jinx it, but he's like, you know, I know this is a tricky thing to say, but we're two good performances away from winning a international tournament. And we're, you know, all this shit, the same shit that he said at the last same time last year,
00:45:29
Speaker
And then they ended up bombing out of open cup bombing out of, you know, they, they finish in a good spot in the playoffs. He did say that it's been too long since we've lifted a trophy. Yeah. and So yeah. And so agreed there. And yeah, like it's going to be determined if that is still true in, in a few days here.
00:45:47
Speaker
So yeah honestly, like, uh, Whether or not they win Leagues Cup and how they do in the playoffs, I think that's going to... I've been saying the whole time, I i feel like that's going to be determinative on if this approach to the transfer window is validated or not. I know some people out there, i read our comments.
00:46:04
Speaker
I literally have seen people say like... like i say i Basically saying they don't want them to win a trophy because that would validate the Craig Wibes roster approach.
00:46:18
Speaker
What are we talking about? like What is the reason that we're that we're doing this? like Is it to... is it a like have the most fun roster or is it to win games and win trophies? Like, I don't know.
00:46:31
Speaker
I'm just such on a different wavelength on that with some people, I guess. Like, and again, it's another thing where I feel like the, uh, the results aren't dictating how it gets talked about, which I find annoying. But anyway, let's just say, let's say one more real quick. We got 46 minutes on the Craig. yeah We can just, we can just skip it. Let's just, right yeah let's just now you we wrap it up with a bow and just give our final okay takes and feelings on the presser and the the window. Well, I guess we'll give our final takes on the window with Doyle's grade, but just the presser. I guess, I guess I just feel like, uh,
00:47:07
Speaker
the whole The whole idea that it can't be a project player, to me it seems like U22 players, that's what they are. They're project players, they're throws of the darts at the dartboard, they're you're taking swings, you know you you hope you hope you believe in your scouting and your process enough that it can be a player that's going to contribute right away,
00:47:27
Speaker
but Again, like you can have the most highest pedigree, well scouted player in the world. And if we're talking about like young players of this type of profile at this point in their career, it's inherently kind of a guessing game, ah dart throw.
00:47:44
Speaker
And it seems like what had if I have an issue with what happened here, it's like creating self-set criteria that was clearly very hard to meet and i don't see why that has to be your criteria you can take swings on uh on these guys and that's sort of what the mechanism is there for is for taking swings so that if i have like a main issue i guess it's that self-set criteria that i don't feel like that necessarily needs to be how you how you look at this mechanism
00:48:16
Speaker
I think that, you know, this was the final quote we didn't read, but it's not, you said, Craig said, it's not the most fun when you don't get your target, but it happens a lot with anyone in sales.
00:48:26
Speaker
We could have gone out and got a hundred guys that wouldn't have helped us. And I think that sure, that's true. and And frankly, I am very happy with this roster right now. Like I, I can't sit here and say that I'm not happy with the way this roster is construction constructed in the way that it's playing. So this isn't a huge, you know, hate to Craig,
00:48:45
Speaker
I think we can be frustrated with the approach, though. Like, I'm very frustrated with the approach because you're right. U22, the whole idea of the method is that you're mining.
00:48:58
Speaker
You know, your hit rate is low, but you're just trying to find a gem. And... I think it's okay to sign someone like Leo Chu who does contribute but isn't isn't a player who's there long term.
00:49:11
Speaker
I think it's okay to make a mistake and sign a player. I just don't understand where on one hand you're like, basically we will sign a DP in Pedro de la Vega and give him the latitude to figure it out because we believe that he's you know pretty good. and It's not the same situation, I understand, but at least verbally communicating that...
00:49:33
Speaker
he doesn't have this pressure on him, that somehow a U22 is going to? like like That makes no sense to me. That makes no sense to me. And you spent $7 million dollars on Pedra de la Vega.
00:49:45
Speaker
So where did that... Did did periade did the Pedra de la Vega signing scare you a little bit? like I just think that you need to take risks, especially with this U22 thing, especially when you have no depth.
00:49:57
Speaker
It's not signing a player to sign a player. It's signing a player because... There's no one else in this plan. And maybe you have to get rid of him after a season. Maybe you have to figure it out.
00:50:08
Speaker
But that's roster building. that's That's roster building. And I think that... I've seen a little bit of an issue with the Sounders in... We always talk... I mean, people talk about it all the time of like holding on to players past their expiration date or whatever it may be.
00:50:25
Speaker
But I think that there is this like such a such a tight and narrow like... Field to already navigate, especially with players that Brian will play and players players that you can afford.
00:50:39
Speaker
Why are you adding extra qualifiers on a roster spot that for all accounts needs the least qualifiers? You need to just be like, I trust my instincts. I'm signing someone here.
00:50:50
Speaker
So, um yeah, like, whatever. Fine. Don't sign anyone. I'm not really, like, aggrieved at the end of the day as long as we win something. But, you know, what happens if Moose gets hurt?
00:51:04
Speaker
What happens if someone else at the nine gets hurt? It's just, like, there's... ah you could have had at least something extra, something extra for the rest of this season for one more season, whatever you could have figured it out. So, um, it's, uh, it's like not the end of the world, but i don't know.
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00:54:29
Speaker
Noah, let's talk some armchair analyst take. ah Doyle put out his column this morning of ah he went through every single team in the in the league and gave them a letter grade for their transfer window.
00:54:42
Speaker
ah So let's see what he had to say about the Seattle Sounders. This is the national pundit. perspective, which again, I always think is valuable to look at just from the standpoint of it's someone looking at it through through a lens that's not obsessively following it day in day out like like we do. And that always a lot of people say that that discounts people's perspective because they're, uh, they're not following it as closely, but I think it can, uh, shed new light on, on some of these things. So, uh, let's, let's hear what Matt had to say about Seattle's transfer window.
00:55:18
Speaker
Uh, he gives them a C minus, he's some C minus, which isn't the worst grade. I don't think that he, uh, That's like most of my grades in high school, college, middle school, all that. C's do get degrees. C's do, yeah.
00:55:31
Speaker
Doyle gave him a C-. minus Biggest move. He laid out the moves that they did make, which contrary to popular belief, the Seattle Sounders did make a signing in this window.
00:55:41
Speaker
gave homegrown center mid Snyder Brunel first team deal. ah And then he he says, I've called the Sounders the deepest team in MLS history and I stand by it, though they're now putting that to the test with injuries or suspensions for the League's Cup semifinals on Wednesday.
00:55:57
Speaker
They tried to make some signings. They were advanced talks for two U22 center forwards that I know of that didn't get over the line, but that's not why I've docked them a couple of letter grades here. Their center forward depth is elite even without any additions.
00:56:08
Speaker
It's because they didn't add anything at D mid. That's the spot that they really need to address because with Joe Paulo out, it's thin as hell behind Christian rolled on. ah So the reason that Doyle docked them has nothing to do with the, with the U 22 number nine situation.
00:56:28
Speaker
And it's more to do with another area of the field that we've talked about, which is the, the lobbying scorchers confirmed. Yeah. the defensive midfield and the, and the depth behind Christian rolled on, which is something that we've talked about a lot.
00:56:42
Speaker
And, ah Like, that is an issue. The double pivot of Christian and Obed continue getting too many starts consecutively, playing too many minutes.
00:56:54
Speaker
The fatigue issue, that's real. And a lot of people, Sean Davis was a guy that Doyle had talked about Seattle maybe signing. ah He's like, that would be off the street, basically. He hasn't been playing in MLS this year. So, like, I don't i don't know if I'm as, like,
00:57:11
Speaker
I wouldn't have minded a Sean Davis addition, but I don't know if that really does all that much for me. And he hasn't been playing in the league this year. But I will. I do want to point something out here, Noah.
00:57:21
Speaker
OK, which is that yeah I've been doing a bit. I've been doing a bit. I kind of did it right there. You know, Seattle actually did make a signing.
00:57:31
Speaker
They signed Snyder Burnell. And, you know, everyone everyone's like, ah, like, yeah, that doesn't count. it It literally does count.
00:57:42
Speaker
Like, I'm sorry. Like, I understand it doesn't count in the same way as someone from outside the league. um But just because in addition that you make to the roster comes internally from a player that you've developed yourself It's still in addition to the roster.
00:58:05
Speaker
And the thing is, like, if they had if they if you told me before the window, all they're going to do is bring up Snyder Burnell, and that's it. I'd say, okay, well, you better hope that he's good then. You better hope he's a starting caliber player. You better hope that he actually can contribute right away, like you've said about these U22 players.
00:58:26
Speaker
And, you know, it's only been a couple games, but... but he has, he has looked really good. He has scored two goals in his first two MLS appearances, which we've never seen a Sounders homegrown Uh,
00:58:43
Speaker
If Snyder Brunel, if a player of Snyder Brunel's exact profile came from outside the league, this would be getting hailed as a phenomenal addition. And it also is, I understand like what Doyle's saying, like it's not, Snyder Brunel is not necessarily like a like for like replacement skillset wise for Christian Roldan, but that is a move that they did make at that area of the field who can theoretically soak up some of those minutes like at that position. Maybe you have to tinker with it as far as your tactics or you her you who you line him up with with the thought that he's not exactly Christian.
00:59:21
Speaker
ah But i I think that Snyder Brunel is actually like an important... character in all this as we talk about where the roster stands and what they did and didn't do in the in the window because other than the center forward thing which we we gave our thoughts on that but this was the other area of the field where they needed some some more depth they needed someone who could soak up minutes there and I'm sorry, just because it's a ah homegrown player who they developed themselves, that doesn't make it any less of an in addition.
00:59:54
Speaker
And in fact, I would argue that it's, well, first of all, it's more impressive to do it yourself. Uh, but also like, ah it When you have an elite youth development system like a like Seattle seems to, ah with all these players coming up and making impacts at the first team, it does give you more leeway on the ah on the transfer market because you have players from within that you can bring up and that and they're going to contribute. And so we still have to see what happens with Snyder Brunel, how good he ultimately becomes.
01:00:33
Speaker
But I got to say, got to say, this all this already looks like one of the potentially best additions that any team made over the window. And I think we should, if we're being fair, we will we will point that out and we will give equity to that and not just say, oh, well, that that doesn't count like ah like an outside signing because they brought him up from the academy.
01:00:53
Speaker
what's what it like Honestly, like explain it explain it to me. like I'm five. What's the actual difference if he's contributing like on the field and making the impact that Snyder has made So far, what does it matter if it's from the academy or from outside the league?
01:01:08
Speaker
What matters is like what contributions you get on the field from whatever player it is and Snyder's balling so far. So that's I don't know. well well Sorry, I was cooking there.
01:01:19
Speaker
No, you were cooking. I agree with you. I think that he's an awesome addition. And the benefit of signing a player that has been in your system is that they understand your system. They understand the way that you play. They understand the first team plays.
01:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, and you can slot him in. You know, we talk so often about how you can't... There's very few players who you sign them and they immediately come to the team and they could play that first day.
01:01:47
Speaker
That just doesn't happen because they don't understand the team dynamics. They don't understand the locker room. They don't understand what's going on. But the reality is with the way that the Sounders play and participate, it's, you know, youth academy prospects play with the defiance players who are playing with, you know, the first team. And so you have this trickle down effect of not only the style of play, but you know you already are knowing players because you're in the same facility.
01:02:18
Speaker
All of this stuff where like you have the opportunity to immediately come in and know what's going on and have a leg up against any signing you could possibly make. Right?
01:02:28
Speaker
like i am I am of the belief that if you can develop a player just as good or maybe not as good but could be as good as a player you could sign, you should go for that.
01:02:41
Speaker
Because there's just inherently so many more benefits along with the fact that you don't have to spend money on that. I don't think it's a bad thing to not spend money when you can develop players in-house that are just as good, if not better, than anyone else in the transfer market. That is the advantage that you get.
01:02:58
Speaker
And it's a huge advantage. ah These homegrowns don't count against the, ah against the salary cap. Like you said, they already know the system. They already know the identity. I think you're seeing the benefits of that from not just Snyder, but from how guys like ah Obed and Josh Atencio and Danny LaVa. Yeah.
Homegrown Player Impact and Strategy Defense
01:03:17
Speaker
Yeah. Kalani played in college. Not homegrown, but same idea. He came up with defiance and like yeah his teeth there. And then they brought him up to the first team. Yeah. like I think this Snyder-Brunel thing kind of reinforces that ah is Seattle's not already up in the conversation with the Philly Unions and FC Dallas's of the teams that get talked about as the best at this. ah Columbus is another one that I think that we don't talk about as much, but I was looking at their homegrowns.
01:03:44
Speaker
Like a lot of these clubs get, get talked about in this way. And like deservedly, like Philly have cooked with it. FC Dallas, their list is incredibly impressive.
01:03:55
Speaker
ah But like, I feel like Seattle is up there right now. And what they're not good at is selling their prospects. What they're not good is letting them leave the system. That's the only difference from the standards from FC Dallas.
01:04:09
Speaker
That's the truth is that the players stay. They don't go to Europe. Yeah, well, we'll see what happens with Obed. Right, but I'm saying you you essentially had Jordan Morris, who, by all accounts, was one of the hottest American number nines in the country at the time, wanted to finish college, wanted to stay with the Sounders, and has continued to want to stay with the Sounders, although he did go and play in Swansea, we know that.
01:04:32
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that's the thing. He did go to Europe. He did go to Europe. yeah right, right, right. But I'm saying that was a loan, you know, whatever. he put And he got injured. What I'm saying is they they didn't really sell him.
01:04:43
Speaker
ah The same thing with Christian Roldan. Christian Roldan probably could have played in La Liga, probably could have played in like all of these places. You know, there's so many homegrowns. Yedlin, I guess Yedlin's the only player who you can really point to. Christian's not a homegrown, but it's the same idea.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, sorry. But like, you know, develop developed player. Yeah. And, ah you know, i I mean, I don't mind having having Sounders lifers. I'm glad they didn't sell Christian. But I just I just think, you know, to bring it back, like I think like the idea that you know, people are mocking the idea that ah Snyder Brunel counts like as an addition in this in this context.
01:05:23
Speaker
um It counts, man. It counts. And you're seeing, I think you're seeing why it counts. He has contributed more in two games than I think you probably would have gotten out of Sean Davis, like the entire time he would have been here. Like, I don't know that for a fact, but I would seven days a week.
01:05:42
Speaker
give those minutes to Snyder Burnell over a vet off the street like that. That doesn't mean that they couldn't or shouldn't have signed somebody for more depth there, but I feel like I'm in a situation in that position group, that area of the field specifically, where I, like...
01:05:59
Speaker
I'm like excited to see Snyder Brunel play more. And I also think that there's there to me, it seems obvious that there's a way better chance that he can meaningfully impact this team and contribute to the success of this team this year the I don't know. Like if you went and broke the bank on some incredible freaking player, like maybe. Yeah, no, I agree. Snyder, but like, ah but you don't need to do that when you, when you develop them like internally, that's the benefit of it. So that's, I'm just saying Snyder Brunel counts.
01:06:33
Speaker
Okay. Snyder Brunel counts. And I think it can also be true that like you can sign Snyder that counts and you should give him the majority of the minutes and also a signing of a ah veteran off the street as insurance is not a bad thing because I'm sorry.
01:06:52
Speaker
i have not liked JP's play this entire season. I think he's just shown his age. I think he's an amazing locker room guy. I think he's amazing mentor. And I think that that's a great player to have around.
01:07:04
Speaker
But I got to be honest with you, hedging your bets on that he's going to come back somehow from a miraculously not torn ACL, but it was kind of torn, but it wasn't torn, but it was kind of torn, but it wasn't. That's ridiculous. He's old.
01:07:15
Speaker
Like, i' no no disrespect. i love JP. JP's one of the best to ever do it. that's a bad That's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. And the depth there is still lacking, even with Snyder, in my opinion.
01:07:26
Speaker
Because Danny Leyva has shown he should be the backup 10, right? I'd agree with that. So now you're in a situation where Obed and Christian, you have to pick one to rotate.
01:07:39
Speaker
you can't You can't rotate the full the full setup. And it's just like... It's tough. It's tough. It's tough because what happens if one of them gets injured? God forbid, knocking on wood because I don't even want that to happen.
01:07:52
Speaker
ah But I think that you're still right. Like that, that group, it needs to have some insurance. And I really hate the JP is that insurance. I really
Controversial VAR Decisions and Impacts
01:08:02
Speaker
do. Some people are going to dislike that. tap I mean, I don't, I don't think it is at this point. I think that's Burnell's role.
01:08:07
Speaker
Like, that's that's why you That's why you bring them up, right? Yeah, no, I agree, but I think you could have one more player in that position group. um And then, you know, just the same with the nine.
01:08:20
Speaker
Yeah. ah I don't have anything else to ah to add to the Doyle segment, so unless you got anything, we can... Should we give our own grades? I mean, i think C- minus is about where I would land as well. I'm giving them a D.
01:08:37
Speaker
but Yeah, yeah that's fair that's fair. I mean, would it have been an A if they got no Ohio?
01:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, probably, because that's exactly the criteria that they set out to do. Yeah, yeah. Because that's exactly what they said they were going to do. That was the the things that they said they wanted to do. i mean It's just tough without knowing what the act like exact logic was, because i do honestly...
01:09:04
Speaker
I do honestly buy the notion that if none of the targets that you assessed were attainable,
01:09:16
Speaker
I then I don't I don't want them to to do it just to do it. I don't want that. I don't want that. Oh, I agree. Like, I think there is actually something to be said for, like, sticking to your process and not making moves just to appease people that you don't think are going to are going to help the team. So.
01:09:35
Speaker
uh but i also the the reason i would go like lower on the like like c minus is just because you you had like we talked about earlier you had the time budget and opportunity to like improve this team and you didn't do it uh if i was going to go lower than it would uh than a c it would be if i felt like the team got like worse uh you know like minnesota united they just sold uh tawny i believe that's the situation where i think their team actually got worse so uh i don't think that's seattle's situation so that's why i would go in the c range uh we we had a lot of snyder b discourse and like uh other roster discourse in the agenda check and we were like you know what we already we already hit a lot of that we checked
01:10:21
Speaker
We checked, and also I have to jet in like 10 minutes anyway. So we're just going to cook on this Thomas Mueller, Vancouver Whitecaps, St. Louis City penalty kick debacle real quick because that was, I thought, one of the funniest things of Match Day 30 for someone who's not invested in St. Louis City SC. Right. famously you are anti-invested in St. Louis as City SC called them fraudulent so much so that their fans crashed out ah their fans did that we they were the original fan base to crash out on ah um mobbing scorchers but you know what's funny about that it is uh
01:10:59
Speaker
After it turned out fraud watch was validated ever since then, the only ones I've interacted with have been like, yeah, you were low key. You were high key, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were, which, and I get it. Like when you had the season that they had, you want to you want to believe, you want to believe. I would be, but it was I would be in the same boat as them. I would be like, la la la la la la la no ill will towards a St. Louis city SC, but they did get, uh,
01:11:26
Speaker
They did get a raw deal in this situation again at Vancouver. ah Basically what happened was it was tied to to at the very end of the game. It's not a ah road point that would have done anything for St. Louis. They're way, way down on the table.
01:11:42
Speaker
ah But it's the principle of the matter. ah The Vancouver Whitecaps get awarded a late penalty kick on ah on video review in one of those situations where...
01:11:57
Speaker
It's just the the application of VAR. In this situation, it's a temple massager. It's a temple massager. Basically, the Vancouver guy was making a run in the box, and it looked like that he went down because the St. Louis defender my may or may not have like barely clipped the back of his leg. It looked like a dive. like Yeah.
01:12:24
Speaker
But then if you really slowed it down, it was like, oh, he might have made contact with his knee right there. The one scud may have made contact with the blade of grass next to his knee. and By no stretch of the imagination, clear and obvious, it was 50-50 debatable at absolute best whether he actually made contact or it was a dive. They go to the monitor and give them the penalty, and ah Tommy Mule hits the game-winner.
01:12:50
Speaker
uh, past Roman Berkey and the white caps win the game. Uh, so St. Louis city fans were obviously not happy. and okay. I'll just, I mean, I'll just say like my thoughts on the call. It's, uh,
01:13:07
Speaker
It's a terrible call and like that type of stuff with VAR shouldn't still be happening. To me, it's just it's just like but like, you need to be able to apply common sense in these situations.
01:13:19
Speaker
If you're getting into the minutia of like one millimeter here and you're like, there, i think i see it, and it takes you 27 minutes to look, you just have to leave it. You have to leave it.
01:13:30
Speaker
You have to leave it. It's not it's really not hard to like assess in a situation. like that and uh i say this as someone who uh you also do have to have var like the people who are anti-var and think that it's ruining the game or they shouldn't have it like i'm sorry like there was also multiple other instances in this match day where there was just calls that were missed so egregiously ah that it took two seconds for them to overturn them and get them right that's why you um that you have to have it there is too much
01:14:03
Speaker
money on the line in these games. There are jobs on the line in these games. You can't have situations where calls that are missed that egregiously decide results. You can't have But by the same token, you can't have situations like this where you're awarding a penalty that decides a result on a call that is literally like 50-50 debatable. The whole point is that it's got to be clear and obvious.
01:14:27
Speaker
And that was not. And it just, the fact that we still have these refs going over there, taking a half hour, to review the calls, which that is it right there. Like people say it on the broadcast every time. Like, uh, I almost like, I'm like pulling my hair out, watching these things. Like if you are over there for that long, it's over, it's over. It's not clear and obvious.
01:14:47
Speaker
You have to just leave it. Like why should be a clock? Why are you still standing? there Give them a countdown. Yeah. Like, like i like when When they take that long, that there's nothing that drives me up the wall more than when they're over there for that long.
01:15:03
Speaker
like and and If you are over there for that long, you leave the call, man. It is not like complicated. It's common sense. You're also deciding the game at that point. yeah With this call specifically, it's 90 plus 10.
01:15:19
Speaker
You're deciding the game. That's crazy. you're You're picking if a team wins and is still in the supporter shield race or if they draw and are effectively like continuing a terrible result for Vancouver. Yeah.
01:15:34
Speaker
i I, and here's here's my favorite part of this whole situation is that ah St. Louis City fans are doing the whole bit of like Thomas Muller, this is scripted, Apple TV, scammed, hate...
01:15:47
Speaker
and scammed i hate I saw one like St. Louis city SC, like their biggest podcast or whatever made like 15 Twitter videos and was like, I'm quitting.
01:15:58
Speaker
and MLS is a sham league. I'm never broadcasting about MLS ever again. i quit like damn three years in. Okay. Hell yeah. Love that. um Fair, fair play. You know, it's, it's hard to be a fan out here, but yeah.
01:16:12
Speaker
I think I land where you land, where like VAR is important, but I think the over-reliance on VAR just becomes this like confirmation bias, crazy, let's look at every blade of grass. Let's like, there's an inherent, you know me, as an anti-stats man myself, there's a beauty to the naturalness of the game, of the ability of players to make and miss calls or refs to make and miss calls like that's a part of the beauty of the game i think that there's really bad officiating i think there's really good officiating and that's part of the game what i've hated with this whole fucking bullshit var era especially is the like waiting to raise the flag and like all of this stuff that just slows the game down and creates these opportunities where
01:17:05
Speaker
you're not winning the game in the run of play sometimes. You're winning the game youre and game on a VAR-awarded penalty because your stud touched the knee of another player.
01:17:16
Speaker
Like, he's not trying to... There's no way in the world he was like, I'm going to put my knee exactly one millimeter away and move the air to move your... Are penalties and fouls in the box and all of this kind of stuff not supposed to be awarded on the idea that you actually like stopped this play meaningfully?
01:17:35
Speaker
You can't tell me that that guy wasn't just running after the ball. like that That was an egregious call. um But that said, I kind of love it because of the crash outs.
01:17:48
Speaker
Yeah, i what i what I was going to say is that I find i find the ah premise that ah anything at all would be rigged in favor of the Vancouver Whitecaps to be... They famously like just crashed out about their own fucking LAFC Vancouver Whitecaps. The ref had been to like two LAFC games because he lives in LA.
01:18:11
Speaker
Yeah. like I know the idea is it's like they just got Thomas Mueller and it's a big name that they wanted to they wanted to script a big game-winning goal moment for him.
01:18:23
Speaker
I can promise you that the script writers are not thinking about Vancouver Whitecaps versus St. Louis City They're thinking about Danny Moustovsky. Yeah, exactly.
01:18:35
Speaker
They're not thinking about Vancouver Whitecaps versus St. Louis City SC. ah They're not. They're not. They don't watch the West. They don't watch the West, but like even with Thomas Mueller on Vancouver, they're still they're not they're not rigging it against St. Louis or for Vancouver.
VAR Effectiveness and Referee Accountability
01:18:55
Speaker
But you know it was I think it was the worst call I've seen this season, and there's been some bad ones. But also, i do, again, I want to point out... like i could point I could also point to two or three other instances just over this weekend where VAR worked wer work perfectly.
01:19:11
Speaker
You had a really, really just bad, egregiously missed call. I think one of them was like it was a situation, i think, for the Timbys where there was a low cross coming in the box and the defender slid to block it.
01:19:23
Speaker
And it was called a handball when it was just not nowhere close to his hand. You cannot have that. you Like in the old era before VAR, that would have been a penalty. like Yeah. I'm sorry. You can't have that.
01:19:34
Speaker
You just can't. Like, I can't believe that they let stuff like that go on as long as they did with the replay technology. So I, I, I do think though, that refs have gotten ah complacent with the idea that they will be bailed out by VAR, which I don't think is a bad thing necessarily, but I do think that there should be like penalizations for officials who are consistently having to go to VAR.
01:19:58
Speaker
I think that they're just, you you need to be making more calls on the field because, I think what it started to incentivize is not making calls because if you don't make a call, you're not wrong.
01:20:10
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? give you A lot of them don't like to be wrong. Like I've noticed that. And that's a problem, man. That's a problem. And I think, I think, listen, I do not envy any pro referee.
01:20:23
Speaker
We're pro referees on this podcast. We're pro pro referee union. uh, pay them. And, uh, they, they have the hardest job. And also like, we can also be critical at the same time. And I think that like, what I took from this was like, thank, thank God we have VAR, but fucking thank God we, yeah I don't know. It's just like, it sucks. Like, I don't know.
01:20:45
Speaker
It's so complicated, man. But I did love, ah the script writing of Thomas Miller scoring a PK and then leaking that ah Tristan Blackman was going to be a USman. That was funny too. blairre though He's a funny guy. like I can appreciate that if there was content to be made, this like the script writers did a good job.
01:21:05
Speaker
If they were actually doing that, like You can't tell me a last-minute scam PK to make him win. doesn't generate the most time. The video of the PK is going viral on TikTok, like all this stuff.
01:21:17
Speaker
Just saying, if there were scriptwriters in St. Louis s City SC, be happy. This is the only time you're ever going to get any international relevance. At least this year.
01:21:28
Speaker
ah Yeah, no, Tommy Mule seems like a cool guy. i think it's...
Transfer Discourse Conclusion and League's Cup Promotion
01:21:33
Speaker
It feels like he just randomly was looking at teams he could play for and like looked up Vancouver and was like, this city looks kind of sick. likell I'll go play there.
01:21:44
Speaker
Which is like, that that's awesome. It's random as hell. But like... good on Tommy Mule for like having an open mind and like, you know, like he's the type of player that LAFC would, or inner Miami, you know, would, would typically sign.
01:21:59
Speaker
And there's like, no, I'm going to go to Vancouver, BC. And he's doing all this content where he's like biking around the city and like, uh, sightseeing and stuff. So, yeah. ah More power to him. i't Again, i don't know i don't know how much it's really going to make a difference for the Whitecaps at the end of the day, but I think it actually probably could, especially because Brian White, it seems like, I think might have got injured in this last game. ah But outside of Tommy Mule being in a great player, he seems like a cool guy is my point. 100%.
01:22:32
Speaker
what about All right, Noah, let's ah call it a wrap right there. Good episode, good transfer discourse. God knows, hopefully this is can can be ah put a bow on the transfer discourse for a while.
01:22:46
Speaker
But it had it had to be done. It had to be done because ah transfer window discourse, you have to do it in every transfer window regardless. But this was an especially discourse-laden transfer window with how it went for Seattle. So...
01:22:58
Speaker
we put in our time we gave our takes and uh league's cup semi-finals coming up tomorrow at la galaxy dignity health sports park uh nico and i previewed that pretty extensively on lobbing scorchers kickoff yesterday so you're looking for our thoughts on that check that out uh if you're watching this one on youtube please like the video also everyone sub to the lobbing scorchers youtube Get us on the ah on the road to 3K subs and follow us on Instagram and TikTok and sounderatheart.com slash lslobbingscorchers.com slash sauce for the hot sauce.
01:23:35
Speaker
Lobbingscorchers.com slash archive for the kit. No, am I missing anything? Just a big kiss on the cheeks to all of our viewer. We'll see you next time.
Final Farewell and Humorous Close
01:23:44
Speaker
And make sure to share this with the VAR officials.
01:23:48
Speaker
Share it with pro referees. listening in the booth. I know you guys get bored up there sometimes. Plug in a headphone. Listen to the pod. Until next time, we out.
01:23:59
Speaker
Peace.