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28 Years Later: The Bone Temple (2026)
61 Plays6 days ago
This week we reach back into the vault for an episode recorded back in January this year, but we're just now releasing. Don't be scared, this one is worth the wait, as Nia DaCosta's The Bone Temple is quite possibly the best installment in the franchise to date.
(01:44) - Intro
(04:45) - Synopsis
(05:18) - What 28 DAYS LATER franchise movies do you need to see beforehand?
(10:38) - Travis' D-BOX experience (!)
(12:20) - Overall Thoughts
(18:25) - Box Office
(20:10) - Production Notes
(26:55) - Casting
(35:13) - Return of the Hanging Dong
(38:11) - Rick the Theatre Hero
SPOILER WARNING FROM HERE ON OUT
(40:52) - Themes
(47:53) - Deep Cuts
(57:00) - Scare-O-Meter
(57:39) - Highlights
(01:04:40) - Ranking the 28 DAYS LATER Franchise
(01:07:32) - Awards
(01:51:25) - Scream King or Queen
(01:53:45) - Outro
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Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey guys, this week we are reaching back into in the vault for an episode we actually recorded back in January, right after 28 years later The Bone Temple was released. We want to share it with you now, and we'll be back next week with new content.
00:00:14
Speaker
Enjoy. We may have diseases
00:00:21
Speaker
and barbarism.
00:00:30
Speaker
the whole world will cease to make any sense.
00:00:41
Speaker
the incredible changes we've experienced and survived.
00:00:56
Speaker
And yet even greater changes
00:01:14
Speaker
All right, we are back.
Excitement for '28 Years Later: The Bone Temple'
00:01:17
Speaker
Rick, how you doing, man? How's that? How's that? Just the two of us. Just the two of us this week. Let's ah get into it.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, let's. This is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik. I'm Ricky Townsend. Or, i sorry, I'm Jimmy. I am Jimmy Travis with my co-host, Jimmy Rick.
00:01:41
Speaker
Jimmy Rick. Today we are covering the very short turnaround sequel... the second in the trilogy of this later installment of the franchise, but third film overall in the franchise, 28 years later, Bone Temple, Nia DaCosta's film.
00:02:00
Speaker
And man, I, as soon as I stepped out of this theater, it's killed me that it's been a few days since, We've seen it to now record. It's one of those movies right when I stepped out of it. i I had to talk to you about this. I was so excited. And we try as a rule thumb to, you know, bury those emotions until we're on the pod to unhash them all here live for our audience. So I'm excited just to just to talk about this one with you, man. I'm really excited to talk about this.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, I felt the same way ah so much
Director Transition and Unique Styles
00:02:30
Speaker
that I saw it twice. I saw it again last night. Yes. i read I actually I feel so strongly that I mean, it's very clear these films were shot back to back. But very interestingly, you rarely see films shot back to back with different directors.
00:02:43
Speaker
So yeah, it was really fun. What I did was I rewatched 28 years later on my couch, butted it up right against seeing Bone Temple again in the theater near me um for the second time. And rewatching both was a cool experience because you can see just what a singular work both movies are and and a lot of foreshadowing in the first film that I didn't notice the first time.
00:03:08
Speaker
But you can also see just the distinctive fingerprint that Nia DaCosta puts on this movie. and that Yes, 100%.
00:03:16
Speaker
Boyle has certain artistic flares. I don't think they go across all of his films because he has a lot of range. But within his films, he makes big swings. Like within 28 years later, whether it's shooting it on the iPhone or that like 180 camera trick, he keeps doing the infrared, the kind of scatter shot at editing style. There are so many things that Nia DaCosta could have aped from him and just copied. And she's coming off of, you know, ah kind of a, a, a dismal outing from this um the Marvels, which is the lowest grossing Marvel movie. I think. Yeah.
00:03:53
Speaker
of all time or of of the MCU. I think it is. If you're not counting COVID times. um So ah and so it could have been easier for her her to play it safe.
00:04:04
Speaker
And instead, she kept within the the biosphere of of Garland Boyle world because Boyle's still on as a producer, obviously. but But put her own fingerprints on it as a really straightforward, like kind of, it's a very metal movie. It's like very, yes it's bloodthirsty.
00:04:22
Speaker
It's gorier than any of the other 28 Days Later movies. um And it's it's kind of, it's very muscular. I really loved it. ah And I was so stoked that she was able to find a balance between her own style and still staying within the the world.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah.
Plot Accessibility and Franchise Context
00:04:38
Speaker
um I want to share my thoughts as well. But before we do, Seeing the box office numbers, I don't think a ton of people have seen this movie yet. you Do you want to share with our listeners who haven't seen it what it's about?
00:04:49
Speaker
I don't think the synopsis is really going to help them understand what the fuck is going on. I love the synopsis. Are you reading the one off Letterboxd? ah I'll read the one off IMDb. You can read off the one off Letterboxd. Mine just says, as Spike is inducted into Jimmy Crystal's gang on the mainland, Dr. Kelson makes a discovery that could alter the world.
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty close to Letterboxd. It's just like Dr. Kelson finds himself in a shocking new relationship with consequences that could change the world as they know it. Yeah. oh Yes. what Which is funny because like the synopsis would make you think that it's very hard to follow and you're getting thrown with all these characters.
00:05:28
Speaker
But you could you could watch this movie and pick up the pieces. You'd be missing a few things, but you could very quickly be like, oh, there's this, we're in a post-apocalyptic world. This gang has formed, this death cult. um This kid must know this science, this doctor from another place. like You'd be lost here and there. But one of the people I went with the first time I saw it did not see the first movie and still enjoyed it.
Reception and Franchise Recommendations
00:05:51
Speaker
so Yeah. ah too yeah this This is spoiler for 28 years later, the preceding film.
00:05:57
Speaker
But I think the only thing you really want context on going into this one if you if you were going in blind, is that talk Dr. Kelson and Spike know each other. Know each other, yeah. They have a history. that That's really it.
00:06:10
Speaker
um And i you could also say, like you know with some perspective, I think it's safe to say that 28 years later was received, had a mixed reception. You and I are on the higher end of it to the point where it was my favorite horror movie the last year, and it was your second, yeah I think, right behind centers. That's correct.
00:06:30
Speaker
you Not weapons. Yes. Sorry, wihead weapons. Yeah, that is not how most people felt. um And so you you have this this first this first movie in this duology here that didn't do that well critically. But then you also have this, I think, expectation of the layman that they have to watch two other movies or three other movies in addition ah in addition to this one.
00:06:54
Speaker
so A, it's like that sucks because I thought the the first movie was great. and when When I say first, I mean first of the 2020s. Yes, first of this new duology, like you said. I want to say to anybody listening who has not yet ventured down this road, you do not need to see 28 Later or 28 weeks later, would it help to see the very first one? Of course. Because I think, you know, if they, this right now sits as a, as a trilogy of, of Garland and and Boyle, I think you can completely ignore 28 weeks. Now you should watch If I had to rank films, if you are trying to watch something before seeing this one, seeing 28 years later that came out last year, I think that's pretty important.
00:07:40
Speaker
Pretty important. um Like we said, there's there's one big plot point that gets carried to this one with their relationship. but that That's about it. Outside of that, then yes, watch 28 Days Later to see how this all started and go back to the original. And 28 weeks later, if you don't have time for that one, no worries at all. It it is a good film too. I like that more than average consensus. But It is definitely not necessarily it's in the shared universe, but no intertwined plot here with the specific characters, at least thus far.
00:08:11
Speaker
I mean, they like we said on our first part the 20 years later, they do kind of retcon a little bit. They're like, yes. Oh, the stuff that you thought was going to happen with the whole world getting virus at the end of 28 weeks later, that actually is fine. did Yeah. The ending shot of 28 weeks later is zombies running around the Eiffel Tower. And then like right at the start, 28 years later, like, yeah, it's just contained in England. There's other European zombies. We got rid of them
Thematic Discussion and Real-World Parallels
00:08:35
Speaker
real quickly. So glad they did that because what we have in front of us now is two, hopefully three movies that are really smaller in scope about few people living in this really weird cross section of abandoned slash quarantine place yeah that has villages and sex and and cults. And it is such a great microcosm of, and I think, I mean, we'll get into this talk about themes or how it like made me feel was like, man, hearing Dr. Ian talk about
00:09:05
Speaker
how um there used to be order in the world and there used to be a level of certainty. That is how I feel post Trump, post COVID, like 2016 shit got real weird post 2020 shit got weirder.
00:09:17
Speaker
And I, you know, we can still, we have stovetops, we can go to the movies, things are still functioning, but the rule of law and the sense of certainty and order has been very much crippled in my opinion, and in my worldview. And so,
00:09:33
Speaker
Why is we have stovetops the first thing you think about for like the world is the world is still running. Don't worry. while I'm looking at a stove top off the rails yet. We we do still have stovetops. I think it's because Trav in Montana when I was in my first hotel before moving it with Sarah's and her hotel, yeah I had a kitchenette and i was very proud of the stovetop.
00:09:54
Speaker
But then Sarah didn't want to move out of her her hotel. So I moved in with hers, but she didn't have a stovetop. And then so we had to fend up. And you felt like the world was unraveling. I was like, I'm in love, but I can't, you know, I can't make, you know, cream and mushroom soup. But at what cost? um Okay. yeah I'm saying like, I guess bigger point being, I love that Garland wasn't afraid to shake things up and get us to a smaller scope and really just focus on these, these archetypes of certain types of people and systems that they all represent.
Cinematic Experiences and Directorial Praise
00:10:24
Speaker
Like it's mainly four people in this movie that matter.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, i with that, so I saw this film with my buddy Max. He saw 28 Years Later with me last year as well, so we wanted to go back together to see this one. Shout out to Max because we saw... Did he like 28 Years Later?
00:10:40
Speaker
He loved both movies. Okay, great. He loved both movies, as did I. And ah shout out to him, though. We saw it at 11.15 a.m. on a Friday. That's when I have to fit my horror movies in, and he was like, I've never done this before. Psycho behavior. Yeah, he was...
00:10:54
Speaker
He like, I don't know. Like, do we get drinks? Do we eat? Like, what what are we doing right now? It's daytime. um But I saw it with Max. Also, we saw sat in the Cinemark D-Box seats. You did D-Box. first experience in them.
00:11:07
Speaker
splurred. I bought us the tickets. I wanted to treat him since he was coming with me. How did D-Box go for like- It's awesome, man. Did I mean, I've done it once and it was with weapons and it was great. What did you do? I can't imagine wanting to sit in those chairs unless it is a horror film or like maybe a racing film, like maybe F1 or something or Cars by Disney would be cool to see in it. But, um, Outside of that, don't think it's shaking around too much. it move camera? Like when the camera tracks, like did it, because I remember that doing that. No, they must have had like the B team on my D box scene. It would just, during tense moments, you'd get a little vibration then it would stop and then you'd get a jump scare and it would, you know, like launch you out of the seat with all the Were the jump scares timed appropriately? Like did it, did it betray the jump scare? No, it was,
00:11:54
Speaker
they were very good at syncing up the uh I'm glad the chairman the chairman of the box the chairman is doing still doing his job um but anyways my point was just popcorn just popcorn classic it was it was early um Max made a point so when I credit it yeah uh attribute it to him 28 years later
00:12:18
Speaker
we you know We fast forwarded so much in time, we're introduced to this new locale and there's a lot of world building going on. Yes. It's a new slate of characters. It really helps understand this movie better. It's a zoomed out look, exactly. It's a zoomed out look of England. And it's incredible. And I love it for that.
00:12:36
Speaker
But this movie, what Nia DaCosta does is it it almost shrinks the world a bit. And it's more cute. There's really no new characters. I mean, we get a taste of Jimmy and his gang in the last movie. kelly again and Kelly's the biggest introduction.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So we we get Kelly in and that's about it, who's a more minor character. And so I think this does a really good job, you know, with the last film setting this large scope of where we're at now, just focusing on small and more intimate stories, really just through the perspective this time of two characters. I mean, I'd say two groups of characters and Dr. Kelson and his relationship with Samson the zombie and then Spike and his relationship with Jimmy.
00:13:20
Speaker
and his gang of jimmies and um it it works really well just seeing the two different groups that ultimately you know have to come to terms with each other at the end and so i love that i love that she made it her own um i was listening to chris ryan on big picture talk to this as well so don't want to steal his idea but 28 years later, this franchise is one where somehow every movie in this franchise has so much originality, is so unique, while yeah still, you know, adhering to kind of the larger rules of the universe. i think that's so cool where...
00:13:57
Speaker
it is so different than just the preceding film. And given that they were shot back to back, I think it's all the better for switching up directors. um You know, Nia Dacosta, I don't have a ton of familiarity with her, but I did see the Marvels and I did see her Candyman remake.
00:14:14
Speaker
The Marvels is... How was that? Yeah, well, I was going to say, the the Marvels is my least favorite movie. uh marvel movie of all time okay now she's gone on record saying that yeah you know a lot of creative control was kind of yeah which away from her which i think there's not we've had mcu since 2008 there's been so many reports of that happening to many other directors
Marketing Concerns and Execution
00:14:35
Speaker
that is like a very valid excuse like yeah you're caught up up in that machine you're gonna get hamstrung yeah something and it was all for the worse it was the uh kind of the smoke and gun that sometimes the machine gets too big, so to speak, and all of a sudden, instead making the charming, you know beloved superhero movies of 15 years ago, it it was slop. It really was. And so that that I did not like.
00:15:00
Speaker
Candyman was good, but it wasn't great. It was charming. I liked it. I don't have an intention to watch her remake again anytime soon, but it was good. And so to say at the end of 28 years later,
00:15:12
Speaker
where they kind of have this last five minute segment of the last film where it's really setting up near the costa's film an introduction to jimmy and his gang and it's probably what got the last movie the most blowback was this sudden record scratch shift in the tone of the film where it's you know the loud music the brightly colored gang of kung fu ninjas killing zombies it It was such a tonal shift and knowing it was her, I was so worried for this film. My expectations were super
00:15:49
Speaker
You saw the last five minutes of 20 years later have a big whiplash of tonality. I loved it. I think you liked it too. i liked it, but it had me... It had me worried. still But like, next film did you feel that ni like Nia asked for that ending so it could lead into hers? Like, what was your what was your relationship between how you thought the ending of this one and then how this, like the new movie? I think now in retrospect, it was so well done. It truly was a teaser what is to come. Yeah, it was. Flashier, gorier, more action. Yep. You know, music. Great point. Like, way more needle drops instead of, like, the original score. Like, it had her touch all over the ending of the last film.
00:16:28
Speaker
And it was shocking at the time to get just a taste of it. But now that I've had a whole meal, like... I'm back. will well. I think she did a fantastic job. She did a fantastic job. I think the ending of 28 years later will age well. I think there was a bit of people not understanding why, but it it it it like a it's a palate cleanser for what you just watched because it's the rest of the movie is very contemplative and and and soft and like...
00:16:55
Speaker
it's a it's a we call i think we called it like both a vision quest and a coming of age film it was yeah it was a coming of age film whereas it was all through the perspective of spike in the last film as well so very much had that feel in his relationship with his family and becoming a man this returns this returns to like traditional horror tropes in a good way i mean and it's yeah it's fast it's fun it's gory and uh it's it's sad because The things that I think people were missing from 28 years later, which I think were rightly not there because we didn't need that just yet, are now in this one. But people aren't seeing it because they think it's just going to be a continuation of the other, which it is, but it's a continuation in a different direction. You know, back to what that might be used to from the first movie and 28 weeks later stuff like that.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i I completely agree. You get a lot more the action and violence that people were expecting maybe in the last film and it it delivers here. It's still interesting to note there is more zombie violence, but it still
Box Office Performance and Future Speculations
00:17:57
Speaker
stays true to the franchise tone of, again, some of the worst monsters aren't the zombies themselves. You know, it's against a backdrop of zombie apocalypse for other people.
00:18:06
Speaker
Can we start to get into spoilers? Because it's hard to talk about themes here. ah Yeah, should we do production notes real quick and hit that beat? and Yeah, and then go into themes? because yeah Because, ah yeah, I think some of this stuff is hard to talk about without.
00:18:23
Speaker
Sure, let's do that. All right, so we mentioned this at the top of the episode. um Budget is reportedly, you know, this is pre-marketing, pre-distribution, $63 million for this film, which was actually higher, just slightly higher than the last film, 28 years later.
00:18:41
Speaker
However, the opening box office is well below where 28 years later was. And again, 28 years later did good, but not great. So by saying this is way below um where it's tracking or the last film tracked means this one is not.
00:18:58
Speaker
It's looking like it will finish in the black. It is below this Yeah, it is not. I would say it's ah tanking. Well, maybe I am. It is a dud right now. yeah It's 15 million domestic, 31.2 worldwide opening weekend. And it was an extra long weekend because of the MLK Day holiday. um And it's it's tough because...
00:19:24
Speaker
This film is so it's so deserving. And I think you see that in both critical and audience scores. um I don't know anyone who's seen it yet who hasn't like liked it. In fact, I'd say most people i know who are seeing it love this. So there's a lot of hope I know from myself, I'm sure you as well that.
00:19:45
Speaker
word of mouth might help through this one or bully its box office numbers. The first movie is on the largest streaming network possible. It's on Netflix 20 years later and 28 days.
00:19:58
Speaker
So hopefully, word because yeah, it's it's getting much better reviews and than the first one. And when I say first one, I mean 20 years later. Yeah. um But yeah, I think we we we discussed enough, I think, on go back and listen to our 20 years later if you want to hear about the return of this franchise and how Andrew McDonald, the producer, Danny Boyle, ah and Alex Garland all approached ah what once the rights reverted back to them and then they approached the studios and Sony came up with this deal. That's all...
00:20:31
Speaker
given a lot more time in 20 years later. So we could probably skip over that. I will say that I was we were talking pre pod, Trav, that there there was some there's conjecture, I guess, about ah Sony offering a number and then Danny Boyle taking that number and splitting it between the two films. But as you pointed out, what is it even is it realistic to assume that Sony offered them 100 million for a franchise that has never needed that budget before?
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, these budgets are way longer than the a way larger than the original two films. I don't know what the starting number was. All I can see is Deadline reported that the original film's budget was 60, and this had a budget of 63.
00:21:14
Speaker
um And so it is important to think about, again, greenlit. sony is greenlit the third film, but they haven't actually started production yet. And so hopefully we get a third film.
Speculations on Third Film and Franchise Vision
00:21:27
Speaker
Hopefully we get an ending to this trilogy.
00:21:29
Speaker
And that's again, why we're really pushing. We're, we're being a hype man here on the pod, like go see this movie because I would be crushed if, if we don't get a third one. I, what was interesting, what was interesting was that, um Early December, there was some deadline reporting and I think Hollywood Reporter as well that that announced that Sony was moving forward with a third film with the third 20 years later three.
00:21:58
Speaker
um But the fact that they announced that before Bone Temple comes out tells me that might be a marketing ploy to get people to go see Bone Temple. Because the word green light holds little weight until money's involved and it could be un-green lit pretty quickly. so Yes, exactly.
00:22:16
Speaker
the The list is short of films that that where a sequel made or a movie made less money and they still decide to go forward with a sequel to that movie. That is a short list. I got obsessed with this notion of a couple of years ago and made a whole letterboxd list of ah of those movies. And there's special circumstances in each case of why they did that.
00:22:36
Speaker
I'm hoping that somehow this 28 years later three is also going to be one of those exceptions because yeah, it's, there's it's just great. And I have, and I have ah I have a hope Travis. I have a hope. um As much as I would love the the current plan is for Boyle to come back and direct the last one, third one.
00:22:55
Speaker
How cool to be if Garland directed. Ooh. I do like some Garland directed films. You know, he he gets knocked out sometimes for being such a great writer, but like, Oh, I mean, we've talked about annihilation. We've talked about, uh, actually at 22, was going to say 2025. He did double duty here. Cause he, he wrote this film, but he also had his film warfare come out, um, you know, in 2025. So between the two, and then civil war was 2024. Yeah.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, he's he's been on a real tear. He's also writing and directing the new adaptation for Elden Ring. Elden Ring, yeah, the video game. um But yeah, I love Garland. I mean, it it is cool. Probably the only other thing of note is that he was the constant here thus far in the trilogy with with Boyle stepping back on this one. He did pen and write 28 years later, as well as Bone Temple, as well as you know he he has a rough script for the third installment. Boyle's still involved. He still produced it and was around. He just wasn't.
00:24:03
Speaker
I like having a... constant writer and a person with a vision of an entire trilogy though before they start making sequels one at a time right because it allows you to tie them together a little bit better when you imagine having a um a huge blockbuster franchise and just creating a trilogy without even thinking about the whole plan and just making them one as you go that would be wild for that to do you know that'd be wild if somebody did that what uh what franchise are you knocking here Oh, just some movies from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
00:24:39
Speaker
Lucas knew what he was doing. And that's also why he had to go back years later and was not talking about Lucas and together. I'm talking about the sequel trilogy. where JJ Abrams comes out, makes a carbon copy of A New Hope, which I liked actually. Yes, that was... And then you're like, all right, now Ryan Johnson does a zig to the left and does this. thought going after my boy, George Lucas. No. Yes, that is one of the funniest instances of...
00:25:04
Speaker
different visionaries not having cohesive vision. In fact, intentionally kind of like no blueprint jabbing at each other by yes, haunting the last person's film, going a new direction. Very bizarre. Again, when they go back to JJ Abrams, JJ got the last laugh, I guess that movie sucks. Rise Skywalker. Anyways, we're not here to talk. That's a horror film. It's just because of it It exists. It is a horror that it exists.
00:25:29
Speaker
um How good was Rogue One though? who Disney did one Star Wars film right. And I need to watch Andor apparently. oh i i'm on Everyone's saying it's the best television show of like the last decade.
00:25:41
Speaker
I mean, you've struck me as someone who is against fascism. Yeah. I typically lean anti-fascist. I know you're trying on a bad day. You might get a different answer, but I know you try to play devil's advocate with me, but I can see deep down that you have a heart and you want the you guys to win. And I think that series is going to go down as very important and salient. Um,
00:26:04
Speaker
you know especially as things escalate. I feel like every time we have this pod, we could go into a whole other direction of talking about other shit. You think Andor is getting admiration not purely for being a good show and based on its own merits, but because it's kind of like the outlet for a bunch of just yeah liberals in in our current political climate being like, finally, someone gets me.
00:26:23
Speaker
but I don't think it's just liberals that want out of this authoritarian vice grip, Trev. ah I think if you watch it, you know what I'm talking about. It is...
00:26:34
Speaker
Okay. It is very reminiscent. it just it just feels It just feels very current. That's all I'm saying. Okay. um
Performance Highlights and Character Analysis
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah. It's so it's very well regarded. And I'm a huge Star Wars fan. So anyways, what movie are we talking about? Bone Temple. That's right. Talking about Alex Garland. um Moving it on from him.
00:26:52
Speaker
yeah Again, Boyle helps produce. But the cast here. I thought it was so well cast. Great cast. Great acting across the fucking board. I loved it. ever There was not one performance where like, oof, that's not working for me. Like, every single one, yeah even the small bit characters of those villagers worked.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yep. I am really torn between the... Again, it is interesting because Alfie Williams, who was our... are point of view to the last movie. yeah I'd say he's probably the third leading role in this one. They bumped him down a few spots where you still get a lot of I'd say Ian Kelso is... is Yeah, Dr. Ian Telson played by Ralph Fiennes and then Jack O'Connell playing Sir sir Lord Jimmy Crystal. It is their show and they're both fucking amazing. like
00:27:43
Speaker
It's hard for me to... praise one of them without merely turning around praising the other because both of their performances just just carry this film and i will tell you like a lot of people were praising uh jack o'connell for his role in centers and i i liked i i thought it was really good but i feel like his role in this movie just blows that out of the water for what i've seen from him actually i was talking to my talking to my friend amanda about this movie she just saw it today 5 p.m. showing. And she said something that I agree with definitely about Jack O'Connell's performance and the writing of Jimmy Crystal.
00:28:19
Speaker
The best villains are the ones that either believe in what they're doing or believe that they're they're good and they're right. Now, Jimmy doesn't believe he's good. in fact, quite the opposite. He he He wants to be bad because he thinks honestly, and he honestly believes this, and and this was firmed up for me in the second viewing. I honestly do think that Jimmy thinks that he saw something very spiritual happen when he was a kid, when his dad you know brought these...
00:28:47
Speaker
from his mind brought these zombies upon him and, and, and create this horde of, of infected to, to cleanse the earth of its centers and stuff. And that, the cold open from the last film. Yes. I should say cleanse the earth, uh, not of its centers, but of just people that don't fall in line with Satan's rule of law.
00:29:06
Speaker
And although he does, obviously leverage things to his advantage and and makes up some things as he goes and embellishes things at the root of it all. I do believe he thinks that he is bidding Satan's works and whether he's a actually his son or a distant son, um there's a vulnerability in Jimmy. That's the word I was going to give credit to Amanda of as as saying is that he plays this role with vulnerability and the character is written with vulnerability that he's not
00:29:38
Speaker
He's not infallible. Or sorry, he he is. and he Yes, he's not infallible. Like he's he's not. I could have been such a gonzo, like over the top role and and and character. But like he ebbs and flows between like charismatic and unsure and just yes but straight up pure evil. And it's so fun to watch that oscillation.
00:30:01
Speaker
they humanized a psychopath. Like see his full range of emotion. I'm like, Oh my God, this is great. There's, um, and by there's reason behind it. There's reason behind the psychopath.
00:30:11
Speaker
My highlight for the film is very clear. We'll get into it. I assume you might have the same, which is at the end of the film. But before then there is about a 10 minute dialogue scene between Jimmy and Ray Fiennes, Dr. Kelson,
00:30:27
Speaker
And I don't, this is like up there with Tarantino-esque, just like long pieces of dialogue where I'm just like, I'm completely captivated right now. Like every line delivery, every interaction. it was so good.
00:30:42
Speaker
Like it sounds silly to say, but it wasn't the action. It was just watching them, you know, their worlds collide and them talk for the first time. what i There's two things I love, many things, but the two I can think of right now was one,
00:30:57
Speaker
Nia directs the shit out of that dialogue heavy scene. And i noticed it a lot more my second time. And so something that I think good directors do well is is ah how much space your subject takes up in the frame and what that means and how it makes you feel subconsciously. Right.
00:31:16
Speaker
If you watch that whole scene, when when Jimmy first approaches ah Dr. Ian, he is in the far background looking very small. And Ian's face is huge. It takes up. He's he's up. He's up front in the foreground. He takes up half the screen because because I think we're watching this from Jimmy's POV. He thinks this might be Satan. He thinks this might be this for, but you know, is just a kind of overwhelming force.
00:31:42
Speaker
And then Jimmy is shot as a weaker position that the camera is facing downward. He's kind of shaky. But as he starts to realize that this doctor is not Satan, but he is a formidable person. He is somebody that has power, that has some skill.
00:31:58
Speaker
the, the scales change a bit. If you watch how she shoots the rest of that dialogue slowly, but surely Ian gets a little smaller and Jimmy gets bigger and he is shot from a powerful perspective. And so I loved her intentional, but not overdone framing to like,
00:32:16
Speaker
go along because you say like you said travis it's not a lot of action but there's action in like what the fuck they are thinking about each other and like sizing each other up i guess it's almost like a duel before it happens you know they're kind of circling each other or jimmy's kind of circling dr ian Yeah.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah. i I was just captivated by that scene. And yeah, every I was writing down my best lines as we always do for the episode. So many of them came specifically from Jack O'Connell and came specifically from that scene. Like we're talking to Dr. Kelson. So they they were phenomenal. Just to get back to casting, I want to give a note about what Ralph Fiennes does in this movie. And it's this, he is a you know, he's a pillar in the the world of acting. Like he's been in so many iconic movies, so many iconic roles. It's a shame. doesn't have an Oscar yet, to be honest. um Yeah.
00:33:06
Speaker
Many people are saying he will get an Oscar soon. Many people, But ah this movie... Okay, so here's a guy that... Here's a guy. but's so Here's a guy. Here's Listen, Al. Here's He's the part of the homes of cinema industry. He... Who has shown us abject evil in in his role in Schindler's List and as Voldemort in the Harry Potter franchise. Okay? So we know that he can do evil perfectly.
00:33:38
Speaker
In this movie... he not only plays a soft-spoken rationalist who's trying to humanize the infected, he also plays that person pretending to be evil.
00:33:52
Speaker
And like instead of going full tilt evil, you see his uncertainty and his glances and his head moving. And yes he'll have flashes of like theatrical performance, but... it It never feels fully evil. so so yeah So for a guy that has perfected the art of acting like and a being an evil person, he's such a good actor that he can be a soft spoken, good person pretending to be evil, but not quite selling it to us because we know who he really don't know. I just thought that whole that whole charade was amazing. The fact that he could do that.
00:34:22
Speaker
i I think with this movie now, he's been close for a while, but I have to solidify him now as one of those actors where if he's in a film, I will see you're in just to see him. i I'm in.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, he's never disappointed. Ralph Fiennes is incredible. I agree. um So he always he's always doing something interesting. and It doesn't matter how small the role.
00:34:44
Speaker
I did want bring up other cast real quick. I mentioned Alfie Williams as Spike. He's really good at this again. Again, I assume the third film will continue to revolve around him. He's got to return to his village. This was our side story. But now we've got to get back to the groundwork that was laid in the first film.
00:35:04
Speaker
Um, Eric, Aaron Kellyman is Jimmy ink. She's great. Um, Kai Lewis Perry's back as Samson. That's the well-endowed zombie. Oh man.
00:35:15
Speaker
I looked up. Here's a production note. He's wearing a prosthetic suit. That's what was leaked. That's not his real that's not his real package. He's hanging in a fake dong, man. Did you think that was real the whole time?
00:35:28
Speaker
i thought that was I thought they cast a guy who had just monster dong. He'd be in a completely different film industry if that was real. He'd be in a different movie. You do? Oh, man. Well, okay, so i have a question for you.
00:35:41
Speaker
you know, back to full frontal male nudity, what this podcast is all about. This is a franchise that has never shied away from it. Never let us know. We get Killian Murphy in the very first film, first few minutes of the film, hanging dong. So they went to Ralph Fiennes and they said, hey man, can you hang some dong? Hey, respectable performance, you know? Yeah.
00:36:00
Speaker
but You think that was real? You don't think that was a prosthetic? Now questioning everything. Ralph? Yeah, that was real. I mean, it'd be hard to fake that. He's like kind of scrunching over and he takes his trousers off and there's no reason to fake that.
00:36:14
Speaker
Also, respect respect to Ray Fiennes for going toe to toe with Samson back to back scenes with Hanging Dong. And like, you know what?
Humor and Audience Experience
00:36:23
Speaker
he he He holds himself such confidence. I didn't even think like, oh small fry, i was like, nice.
00:36:30
Speaker
It's not the size that matters, Rick. It's how you use it. you know i as heard I've heard this too. i do have I do have a... Well, I'll save it for a loser in the movie, but it has to do with this. so we'll'll talk um I did want to shout out Emma Laird. She plays Jemima.
00:36:43
Speaker
okay um Probably one of the most psychotic of the Jimmies. She was fantastic in her small role. And then lastly... wait we so hold up Before we move on from her, yeah the way that she squeaks uh, during this movie, whenever when when she's either excited or in pain or whatever, and whether that's a, whether that's her own little thing or it's a reference to the Teletubbies, it is unsettling. And it reminds me of that. Also, you brought up Tarantino earlier, reminds me of like a Tarantino ass character who was just like, so psychotic and like adept at killing people.
00:37:21
Speaker
other people and uh like she she looks very unassuming and then she gets in the ring and just wrecks you she was great i love her doing the dipsy dance and literally like do the dipsy dance she starts off slow and she really into yeah just boxing her hips around um and then lastly i was just gonna say because i didn't realize this one until after i looked it up but um andy circus's son uh lewis ashbourne circus was one of the villagers the one who oh He looks like him. He had a wider face kind of. I actually really liked his performance.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah. he's He's like a more understated Andy circus. I like ah Andy kind of overdoes it sometimes for me, but I liked that guy. I, I liked the whole scene. I mean, fuck, there's so many highlights. i want to get into travel. I didn't say this earlier, but one of the reasons I saw it a second time was because the first time I saw it um on this recent commercial is a pretty big commercial I got I got a battlefield promoted to production manager, meaning not nice my production manager had a um a family emergency that they had to go back to Dallas for. so we were in San Antonio shooting this thing. And so I went from coordinator to to manager. i've and and I've only been a PM on one of the project much smaller. So
00:38:38
Speaker
I was suddenly i mean it was a pay bump, which I'm appreciative, but it was suddenly saddled with a lot of responsibilities. And so I brought out like the producer and the DP and the first assistant camera and the first 80 everybody out to see this film.
00:38:54
Speaker
But I had scheduled this when I was still just coordinator. And by the time I got to it was the night before our shoot in San Antonio. And so I'm so stressed out. Like the producer got me a beer and we're all watching the movie, but I had to get up from my seat probably like four or five times to answer emails or answer calls. And I would just go in the very, very back and like still try to watch what was happening. But I say that because there were several things I missed, including that because I was like, look, I had to use my jacket as a um,
00:39:22
Speaker
a force a fortress so I wouldn't bother people with my light it's so good to make sure your cell phone light doesn't bother well in this case I'm glad I did because guess what happened midway through the movie I had never seen this before in my fucking life in a theater right in front of us right in front of the lead producer of our film of our commercial sorry somebody pulls out a goddamn iPad to play ah like a darts game what I'll tell you one thing Trav they didn't get to throw one dart before I was up in their ear okay Hey, sorry. Your iPad's kind of distracting. The people's champion, Ricky Townsend over here. Do you mind putting that away? What?
00:40:02
Speaker
I said your iPad, the the light is is really distracting. Can you put it away? it's like, oh, yeah, i was just going to play a game, but I'll put it away. I was like, oh, great. Thanks. Thanks for not playing your game during i'm afraid this is what Netflix has done to us is – It's like Pavlov's dog where you're used to watching their productions that they've literally tailored to like have your phone out while you're watching it. Which I love that Ben Stiller and Matt Damon while they're promoting Netflix film or just trashing Netflix. It's so great. That is funny.
00:40:34
Speaker
um that is funny But um yeah, yeah. Anyways. um So I think that's it for me for production notes. So if we want to move to spoiler territory, we could talk about themes before we go into our horror radio. Yeah. um I. Yes. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Okay. Okay.
00:40:55
Speaker
There's so many directions you can go with this, and I wish I had had more time to really sit on it and think about it, but life's been crazy. But the the few things I took away from it are this. um Before we get into themes even, one thing is like this movie really reminded me of Furiosa a little bit.
Dystopian Storytelling and Character Development
00:41:11
Speaker
In the sense that it it it takes a dystopian world and then this is a much smaller movie, but there is a sense of like lore and and um and diving into the psyche of these characters that are stuck in this weird place. And there's a level of acceptance in this dystopian world like it's not so fresh anymore. So I thought of Furiosa, especially since. That's so funny you say that because the two films I thought of with this were Furiosa and then Rogue One. I thought the exact same thing. Where here's like a side story yeah in this larger universe that's been established, but it has such a presence by itself as like, holy cow, this is a strong installment. Like the new director is making something completely fresh.
00:41:54
Speaker
And it's in your face and it's entertaining. And, you know, Rogue One's not as gory or flashy as Furiosa or this. There's stuff going on. Yeah. I also, you know, I i did listen to part of Big Picture's episode and and they do say something that I agree with. Like not not much happens plot wise in this film. Well, and this is what they said the Big Picture too.
00:42:13
Speaker
You could say that the biggest thing, there is one element that might be the biggest thing for the 28. Well, I guess they're in spoiler territory now. is There might be a cure. yeah There might be a cure.
00:42:24
Speaker
Well, yes, of course. And that's and and then there's Killian Murphy's involvement, which is like a whole other whole other thing. But ah what I was going back to was like, I don't mind that this doesn't, in in a way where I wish Avatar fired Ash, I think that stalls the franchise a bit because,
00:42:41
Speaker
It's just a reach. I loved it, but it is a reach right away of way water and you you don't get much further down the plot. In this case, sure, plot wise, not much happens, but you you understand so much more about this world and these people and these characters that you are really getting attached to in a meaningful way that will set it up for a wonderful third.
00:43:00
Speaker
film, hopefully. Yeah. um And but yes, you're right. the The huge revelation that Dr. Kelso might have found a cure. i think it's Kelsen. Is it Kelsen? Sorry. dr Yeah. Kelso's from ah that 70s show. aton kucher Very similar franchises here. Okay, so so themes.
00:43:18
Speaker
One, the first one I thought of was like the idea of rehabilitation. And it is so interesting to me that we don't get this a lot in zombie movies. That we don't, we do get the whole, we're not, they're not the monsters humans are. Look how much we fuck this up.
00:43:33
Speaker
But not often is there somebody with the sole purpose to humanize, understand, pacify. um You know, it I'm so glad I watched 28 years and Bone Temple the same day because what it helped juxtapose for me, dude, I hope we see more of that village, that isolationist village, because going back and watching it with all those interestingly cut frames of that older...
00:43:58
Speaker
English movie about the Crusades. Henry it? Yes, I think it was Henry that Boyle kept splicing in there. There's so much focus on attacking the other, on building a fortress and then attacking anybody different from you. So you can...
00:44:14
Speaker
You can apply that to you know Brexit. You can apply that to MAGA. You can apply that to whatever you want, how we felt during COVID, that this impulse to to isolate and attack. Whereas Dr. Ian's, his philosophy is so much more different and one that I believe Garland and Boyle sympathize with. They take sides here. They're like, no...
00:44:33
Speaker
Yes, you got to be safe, but like it is the impetus should be on us to or the owner should be on us to like try to help others and try to understand them and go through it and and try rehabilitation versus just annihilation.
00:44:47
Speaker
And so that is a theme that I felt was resonant and I made it more resonant. Yeah. I like the idea of rehab as well, like you put it, because there are zombie films with a cure or an antidote that's instantaneous.
00:45:01
Speaker
Right, right. Find it. Someone's injected. They can be saved. But here that shows like, no, it it takes work. um It's you know Dr. Kelson's life's work really in this film as he's trying to figure it out. And it takes a lot of time spending it with just a single individual in Samson of of getting that to work. And I think that's really cool. That that is a fresh flavor in the ah much retreaded zombie universe. Something just I hadn't seen before. So I love that. I love Dr. Kelson's perspective.
00:45:35
Speaker
on how to treat the zombies. And I also love it juxtaposed against, you know, the Jimmy's and in their view of the world is going to hell. So, you know, if you can't beat them, join them. yeah we We're just going to slaughter everyone else.
00:45:52
Speaker
If the world is hell already, we're we're just going to embrace it. And so um it does a great job juxtaposing those, seeing two parallel stories being told that then get brought together like in the third act between Jimmy's group and Dr. Kelsey. It's science versus dogma.
00:46:08
Speaker
It's like yeah science and rationale versus dogmatic groupthink. And you know i I don't think this is saying that all religion is bad or that you shouldn't believe in God or anything. I think they're showing the science at its best and religiosity at its worst.
Science vs. Religiosity Themes
00:46:25
Speaker
Like they're, they're showing, i mean, you could flip that. You could show like religion being used to bring people together and like find hope and like reach for the skies. And then like science, you know, ah trying to ah monetize a vaccine or whatever, I loved the film Eddington.
00:46:43
Speaker
Of course, I love all Astor films, but that did a really good job of um intertwining them a lot more where you saw groupthink kind of compounded by the science where people are doing probably irrational things because they've gotten what they thought was the scientific opinion and it's taking it to the level of caricature. And I thought it did a really good job kind of you know, classic both sides of how crazy our world was at the outbreak of the pandemic, which is why a lot of people have criticized Astor's film to say, maybe he, he went too far. I, I love it about that film, but here we have them more juxtaposed. And I agree. It it is, um, very pro science and compassion and very anti, you know, religious dogma.
00:47:29
Speaker
And something that I think we need A lot right now. um yeah I also got a sense of time portals, or I felt there was the role of music and and records as as a time portal. ah As like this this echoes of where things used to be and like how through the game of telephone that music might be different now. And like this was a needle drop fucking masterclass. I loved every single...
00:47:57
Speaker
little song they put in there. can we Let's just jump straight to deep cuts real quick then we can come back to horror rating. I think that's fitting. um I've said all I wanted to on theme and I have to say, I'll try to limit it. kind of Sometimes we go too deep on the deep cuts.
00:48:11
Speaker
A lot of fantastic songs. And this is where this film very different than the predecessors by the number of deep cuts. um Also, there's there's dancing. And so my my favorite scene has to be, or favorite deep cut,
00:48:24
Speaker
has to be Duran Duran playing Rio with Dr. Kelson and Samson dancing together to the music, which was i looked this up. i could have brought this up during production notes. Apparently that was entirely improvised. That was not part of the script. And they're just like, yeah, let's do a musical number where we dance to it. and It's just... It works.
00:48:47
Speaker
It works. This is such like crazy movie. People are insane. Enough time has passed. You shouldn't bat an eye at people acting this way, especially when opiates are involved. Yes, exactly. like It's so funny how that worked. like i I took notes early on the movie when I was trying to think through themes. i was like, wait, is this a buddy movie for just like Dr. Kelson? Part of it is. I mean, moments of it are. Yeah. But there's a real tenderness there. It's a real like of mice and men, Frankenstein. Yes, of mice and men. Freak and mighty. Like there's there's this idea of of two very different people. Dinky and the brain.
00:49:24
Speaker
Yeah, but like one of them with less ah capabilities intellectually, but a real tenderness between them. And like it's it's so close to being –
00:49:35
Speaker
ah and not Yeah, it's so close to being satire. it It veers into Campy a little bit. I have no problem saying that. But it it doesn't it stays earnest. It is the yeah because I think of Ray Fiennes' humanity in this. I think if it's anybody else, not anybody else, but I think it's very easy to play play that for laughs and he's playing it for joy he's like so excited to have somebody to do this with he clearly it's a very important part that he misses his wife a lot i mean he is he looks at pictures of her and like yes i don't think samson's taking her place but it is nice to have someone to dance with and to the ah talk with and to sit on ah ah the bank with you know ah the riverbank so that is a great scene
00:50:16
Speaker
That was my favorite deep cut. Okay. So I have deep cuts, not just for needle drops, Trab, but also for like pop culture references too. So they're just, oh yeah I'll start with the music though.
00:50:27
Speaker
I have my favorite needle drop, um, radio heads, everything is right place. So kid a is my favorite album of theirs. Um, I, I think it's all killer, no filler. That's just like one of my favorite albums ever.
00:50:40
Speaker
And that lead track is beautiful. Now, I had always wanted that song to be in a movie. I just feel like it's got such a mood and it can just, it can throw you into a vibe and use the right way. I think it can really amplify whatever the director's trying to do.
00:50:58
Speaker
Well, I got my wish a couple of years ago, but not in the way I wanted it. So I that movie, Gareth Edwards, the creator, um I did not think was very good. I know some people did. They they lost it they lauded it for its special effects and how small the budget was for that. And that's all great. But as far as the movie itself, I just I thought it was boring. I i thought it was just kind of like traipsing around, not knowing what to do. They use that song in that movie.
00:51:23
Speaker
And I was like, fuck, what a waste. What a waste of an amazing track. No one's ever going use this again for years. And lo and behold, I didn't have to wait long, maybe three or four.
00:51:35
Speaker
I think the placement of this song in this movie is perfect. So they they use it once ah the jimmies are...
00:51:47
Speaker
are deciding if they want to go see old Nick. They're up on that. They're up on that hill. um And it it starts to play right when Samson wakes up at the Bone Temple. He puts on a loincloth and the music starts. It got that synth. He ah eats a berry and does something that is so subtle but so beautiful. He wipes his hands on his loincloth like something that somebody with manners or civility might do. And he eats something that's not another human. Right. Brains.
00:52:16
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, brains did look kind of good. i'm not going to lie. But. I don't want to redo my cannibalism position here. um And what I love about it is that like the words of the song, everything in its right place in this part of the movie, everything is not in its right place. So you have an alpha eating berries and his, his eyes aren't red and he's looking simile. He's wearing in a loincloth.
00:52:40
Speaker
Jimmy is going to go see something that they thought they'd never see. Ian is now positioned as old Nick. ah Just things are kind of all over the place. So the, They're not in the right place, but things are moving in the right direction. I just i just thought that was a ah genius pick.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah, I like it. What pop culture references you have here? I had one. The most obvious one, well, make I should say obvious for a UK audience, um is the inspiration for Jimmy, the Jimmys and Jimmy Crystal. Yeah.
00:53:11
Speaker
So did we talk about this in the first Podtrap,
Character Inspirations and Real-Life Parallels
00:53:14
Speaker
Jimmy Seville? or so I don't think we really touched on it at all. So this is, this is somebody whose presence ah looms large in and, and not in a great way in the UK.
00:53:27
Speaker
He was a Jimmy. So I think it's Savile is how say it. Yeah, it is Savile. Yeah. a really well-known media personality and children's show host. Like the way I see it is like, he is more eccentric Mr. Rogers. Like he's just kind of, he was tied to children's programming and dressed in a track suit all this bling. And just like the Jimmy's dress and with the long blonde hair, blonde hair.
00:53:52
Speaker
However, he died in 2011. The very next year, ah there was an investigation into some accusations of sexual misconduct. And some is probably an understatement.
00:54:04
Speaker
Well, that's what going to It started it started as some, um but then it became like 400, 500 different cases from ages ranging from 5 to 75 over several decades. And the NHS hospitals that were part of this and investigation concluded that he had he had sexually assaulted more than like 100 people. um It was like a prolific child like sexist uh sexist violence and so um it's a dark part uk's entertainment history and he got all these awards posthumously revoked and stuff and so you know i think it it rubbed people a little wrong when they first saw this jimmy clone um in this movie were they going to play it for laughs why is he here but um when asked boyle and garland were like
00:54:54
Speaker
confident in their answer like yeah there's there's a connection we use this distinctive look the track suits the bling whatever and his public persona to what they say explore how idealized past figures can hide dark truths even in a collapsed society so like even in a place where you think all the truths are revealed well no this is kind of how maybe lore builds because things can get covered in the rubble and And so it's, and again, credit to my friend Amanda who mentioned this. The movie could also be said to be something about how we misappropriate information or we misunderstand. We think we see something and we don't. Now, in the case of the Jimmies, maybe they knew that and they're dressed as him because they're evil.
00:55:38
Speaker
I don't know. ah They don't ever mention Savile and they never will. but ah Yeah, if the world collapsed in like 2000, 2001, in the years canon, he would not have been exposed as a sexual predator yet. No. So he would be very well known, but only really in a positive light. I guess my question is this. If Jimmy Crystal and his fingers are all about violence and evil, wouldn't they want to be associated with a child rapist like that? the most That is the most evil you can get.
00:56:12
Speaker
so do they draw the line there? i that's where That's where my little, that's a little bit of a confusion for me. It's like, well, wouldn't wouldn't it have made sense if they did uncover that he did all this bad shit and that that's why he is their aesthetic um kind of reference point?
00:56:28
Speaker
But they, were a lot of these characters in Jimmy's gang would have been children when the apocalypse started, the zombie apocalypse happened. Yeah. Maybe, maybe it is more just like, Oh, here's a, here's a fun personality guy, similar to the Teletubbies like inspiration that is all rooted into the trauma that Jimmy experienced. um So yeah, that's the other, I'm glad we're saving the the best needle drop in the movie for later. Yeah. We could talk about it here for highlights just a minute, but before we do, should we do our horror rating real quick?
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it. I had this one at a six. I did too. Significantly higher. Wow. It's been a while since we've agreed on ones. Yeah. I think that's our scariest out of the franchise, right?
00:57:14
Speaker
I mean it's definitely the goriest. And what was 28 days later? think That probably was a six or maybe a six. Okay. So maybe we're more consistent than I thought. I know weeks and years were both like three or four, right?
00:57:28
Speaker
Those are lower. um But yeah, it's scarier. um Okay. but Six. It's officially in the record. Easy. right. No more discussion needed. Highlights.
00:57:40
Speaker
i think there's think there's an extremely clear highlight. And if you pick anything else, you're just doing it to talk about other moments the film because there are so many other good moments. Can we lead up to it then? Can we lead up to it? We'll finish with that. Okay. Okay. Honorable mentions real quick.
00:57:55
Speaker
but Okay. i want I want to continue. i said there was two parts, two elements of the first meeting between Jimmy and Ian that makes that scene so special. I mentioned the camera work yeah in the composition first.
00:58:09
Speaker
The second part is, is there very realistic responses to each other? i love that Ian does not let Jimmy get away with anything until he notices he's in danger.
00:58:20
Speaker
He gently challenges him. He says, well, what do you mean? Like you hear this voice? Oh, you're saying that that you think I'm Satan? Like he doesn't say, wow, you're crazy or go along with it immediately. i just, he has a very almost Socratic method of speaking with him to get really distill.
00:58:41
Speaker
What is this person coming from? And he's doing it with good faith. He's not strategic. Yeah. I mean, get strategic what's you really from being injured but like almost a psychologist or psychiatrist perspective of not challenging them and being abrasive, but saying, Oh, well, yeah that's an interesting point. Can you explain it a little more? Right. He's he's not saying he buys it. He's not saying I agree with you. he is saying that I I'm, I'm interested in what you're saying. yeah Tell me more about your experience. Yeah. I love that.
00:59:10
Speaker
Yeah. That's why. So I just want to round round out why that seems so great. Um, My only other nominee was I did love the Samson backstory where he goes to the train, but then that that goes into you know the the tickets please and oh, I don't have my ticket.
00:59:26
Speaker
And then it turns into a fascinating scene, which again, I don't think I've seen this in zombie films before of a zombie fighting other zombies on the train. And you get a very cool fight sequence and action sequence there where he realizes he's surrounded by zombies on the train. well Samson, a zombie himself, and has to fight his way out of there.
00:59:44
Speaker
it It communicates something very important too, that he can be sentient and not get reinfected. Like he, the both ways that this disease spreads is either by getting the blood inside your body, like through an orifice, like your eyes or your mouth, or if they bite you. Well, both things happen to him and he stays the same.
01:00:04
Speaker
He's already been infected. yep Yeah. Yeah. But let's put a pin in that scene because this ties back into what makes the best scene even better, um which I'll mention in a
Memorable Scenes and Thematic Impact
01:00:15
Speaker
second. But yeah, the the best scene is is I mean, let's play cue the music to lead us into this part. Yeah. So some context, again, if you're listening, I'm sure or hoping you've seen the movie by now.
01:00:31
Speaker
but a bargain is struck between Jimmy and Dr. Kelson when Jimmy realizes that Dr. Kelson not in fact the devil, is not in fact old Nick. Yes, I love that line. God, so many good lines in that dialogue. yeah um And so it sets the stage for just this wonderful plot moment, how it comes about feeling like organic, but at the same time, it is so ludicrous to conceive that Jimmy needs to bring his followers to come see Dr. Kelson to establish his authority over them and remind them that he's in charge and he is old Nick's favorite son. And so in order to do that, he acts, he tells Dr. Kelson, like, I'm going to kill you unless you don't put on a production. going feed you your own intestines. Yeah. Unless you pretend to be the devil for me.
01:01:20
Speaker
And Dr. Kelson, he does not half-ass this. what By the way, before you go into what he doesn't half-ass, What a great ah situational scene for any type of movie where two people are in cahoots on something trying to convince other people, but the two people in cahoots have an opposition to each other. Like they're yeah you're not totally like it's yeah it's it's it's such a wonderful ah old as time storytelling like. ah dynamic between characters. I just love that setup. you know like yeah and We know all. We're omniscient, right? We know all the secrets and and so do the two primary characters, but the other people don't and there's a lot of chess being played. The premise, man. like This... this
01:02:05
Speaker
Shout out to Garland's writing. He just set up for this was, it's incredible. it's amazing scene so fun It makes it so fun. So he puts on Dr. Kelsen puts on it production, I think is the, the only right way to describe it. Yeah. Because he does.
01:02:22
Speaker
It's a, it's a movie within a movie. He does the costumes. He does the music. He does the set design. Um, and so I'm sure we'll have played it by now, but iron maiden, the number of the beast plays.
01:02:35
Speaker
You have the bone temple, which we were exposed to in the first film, but he he lights it up with candles, makes it look as haunting as possible. He's covered in iodine. He has eye black.
01:02:45
Speaker
He's wearing leather. And as the Jimmy show up, he starts blowing drugs in their faces to make them like hallucinate more. He's dancing. He puts on a fire show. I love that he uses all these old tools of manipulation that has been used over centuries. Like you have this, the, uh, the medicinal element of drugs, you have like, like pyrotechnics being used for like sleight of hand performance, music, like anything and everything that other death cults or like, you know, um, magicians or sleight of hand stuff, like people trying to put a wool over your eye. He's using it all in this moment.
01:03:28
Speaker
Yes. To like try to convince them of something. It's really cool. It was incredible. Like i think when I saw this scene, it cemented it as instead of a good movie, like one of my horror favorite horror films of the past decade easily.
01:03:45
Speaker
The emotional responses solicited from the 1115 AM crowd at a movie theater. i When you see an 1115 horror movie, I just i I know I'm likely giving up the hooten and hollering that you can usually get with, you know, an opening weekend ah late night showing.
01:04:03
Speaker
But lo and behold, dozen people in the movie theater were losing their minds. I was audibly laughing and exclaiming as was Max, as was the other handful of people in the theater because it was an experience. It was, yeah. I mean, I don't think I have to say more if you've seen the film, you know what we're talking about. I went to the Thursday night preview. It's the very first time you could watch the movie. There was an applause after his performance, which was cool. Yeah.
01:04:28
Speaker
It was unreal, mate. Like just one of those special, special scenes in a film that I'll remember for for years and years to come. so Should we... We haven't yet done our rankings of where the 28 years franchise.
01:04:43
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think there'll be a better
Franchise Ranking and Film Rating
01:04:45
Speaker
segue. So I think we both agree on weeks. Which is still like still a good movie. It's a strong four. I don't think there's any weekend. If I had time, I'd watch tomorrow. I like i i really enjoyed it. First time watching it or in full in a long time was when we did the pod. um Then next up...
01:05:07
Speaker
All right, this is where we'll probably differ. Next up, I would put 28 years. The 2025 film. Correct. My favorite horror film last year. That would be the same as me as well. I liked i liked this movie, which is crazy because 28 years later, well, i like you said, that was your favorite horror film of last year. That was my second favorite last year. I like this one better. Yeah. I'm i'm exactly with you. Same. um And as of now...
01:05:34
Speaker
As of now, I like, I think I enjoy this and the rewatchability of it more than 28 days. I think this is my favorite 28 days later. move i I'm not quite there, but maybe give it time. I can watch it again. so it It's so much talking about letterboxd.
01:05:52
Speaker
I haven't published my review yet. can didn't want to spoil conversation. We're all waiting, Travis. Everyone's asking for Travis is 20. I haven't given five stars to a horror film in years. Favorite films the last year, Weapons, 28 years later, Sinners. Those were all four and a half. The year before, The Substance, four and a half.
01:06:07
Speaker
this This was an easy... This is a five-star movie. Dude, I gave it five as well. it it was It was incredible. I'm so glad it... like It was such a happy surprise. And maybe again, it's all a game of expectations. Guy was going into this with bated breath. Like this, this might be it for the franchise. I'm going to disappointed. So was I high dude. I was like, i was oddly enough, like not even looking forward to it as much as I normally do. Cause I was like, yeah,
01:06:35
Speaker
I don't know about this. the The little bit I've seen of the marketing campaign hasn't really been what I want. and and i wasn't heavily marketed. didn't feel like it. i was like, oh, no, they're giving up on this film. But it's it's so good. It's my favorite horror film of like the past few years. dude So I'm glad we feel the same.
01:06:52
Speaker
right yeah yeah i I was a four and a half when I first saw it, but that's because I was in and out of the theater so much. The second time last night, I was like, oh yeah, five star banger for sure. And you don't give out five stars like candy like I do, Trav. I'm very selective. it's been you like and That's why I like comparing it to Furiosa because that might have been the last new release I gave five stars to the past few years. I forgot that you liked, I think it was, maybe it was confusing you and your Packer fan cohort, Nick Jellick, who was very much didn't like Furiosa. was surprised by it. you, you act, you did love it. Okay. I loved Furiosa. Yeah. It's good to know.
01:07:26
Speaker
Um, but anyways, okay, cool. Glad we are aligned. Okay. So we talked highlights. Let's move to our Ben Gardner jump scare award. We're in the awards. We're in the award section. We're in the award. Um,
01:07:39
Speaker
All right. there's There's a scene in the beginning that I thought was going to be my jump scare award. Oh, but I think that is mine. All right. Well, then let's go in chronological order. Talk about why that is it for you. In the woods?
01:07:53
Speaker
Yep. Okay. So this is this might not be actually the scariest scene in the movie, but keep in mind, this was my first time sitting in a D-box seat where the seat had not really moved at all up into the point where the guy who looks like Aaron Tyler Johnson is in the woods in a female zombie pop just pops out of the trees. It's a simple jump scare. Nothing more than that. Blindsides him. But that seat literally, it felt like it was about to eject me out of the seat. Looked like Micah Parsons coming off the edge.
01:08:25
Speaker
So she takes him down and i I really jumped because of the D box. And so um the D box got you. The D box got me, man. So that was curious for me. um That is a close runner up for me. And it was up until this scene.
01:08:40
Speaker
And I made a little note about it. So there's a moment um where the all the Jimmys are in sleeping bags and this they're all they have no one's woken up yet, but it is the morning that they're ah they're going to go see St.
Scene Critique and Suspenseful Setups
01:08:54
Speaker
Nick or so say, take old Nick that night.
01:08:56
Speaker
um And Alfie wakes up early because he's like, I'm getting the fuck out. He's already tried to escape once with the pregnant woman. He should have escaped middle of the night, by the way. Like maybe we need to bring this up and dole knife. But like waiting till like, what, like 7 or 8 I'm like, you're not going to get much of a head start here, buddy. The DP was like, i need some natural light, Nia. I want to shoot this scene with some daylight. Can we do it? She's like, okay, sure. Like if you're going to run, he should have left at like 2 or something like that. Well, maybe he thought less infected, but that wasn't the case because he is walking through the woods. you know It's almost identical to the setup to what you just described. He is just walking through the woods. And instead of a woman infected, it's this male infected. And I don't know. i watched it again, um like I said last night. And I i think it's because it had the ah the ring effect of like,
01:09:48
Speaker
there's there's not that quiet that pregnant pause that usually happens right before a jump scare like he's rustling around he's like walking to the woods and you're expecting to see something but not get fucking again blindsided by an infected so both now I'm realizing both are very similar scares yeah both equally effective Shout out to, you know, one of the closing scenes with Jimmy hanging upside down from the cross.
01:10:12
Speaker
And you see through his point of view, the world upside down. And you know something's going to happen. Yeah, in that case, you do. But it it was still pretty scary. Like, that is more of the ah antithesis of the scare you just said, where it does go silent.
01:10:26
Speaker
You know they're only showing you this vantage because you're about to see something pop into the frame of reference, but it's still scary. Oh, Oh, I'm glad you brought this up because another honorable no not um just another great deep cut, and in this case, a needle drop.
01:10:39
Speaker
Love them bringing back the original a theme score yeah to to close out the film after we see Cillian Murphy. yeah um Which... We got to talk about that at some point.
01:10:52
Speaker
Yeah. talk about i like I think I have it for my biggest twist here. Oh, perfect. Okay. Let's talk about it then. Great. Great. Perfect. Well, yeah, just what a few awards before then. Scary and death related. um What about watching through the gaps in your fingers or cantaloupe award? um Mine might surprise you because I think I know what yours will be, but oh yeah I'm going to zag a bit here. And even my second time watching it, I so i still stand by it. I think most people would say a different scene.
01:11:19
Speaker
The hardest part of this movie for me to watch is hitting the artery and that guy's leg. I like what a great scene watching the the the life just drain out of somebody as as they very like they they're panicking. There's blood spurting out of his leg and just how long we stay with him. And it's just lack of care from his or maybe his cohorts care, but they can't do anything about it because Jimmy's got them all in rank and file. But that was hard. I mean, that's a lot of blood. And like you can mean, i don't know, man, I wear short shorts a lot. And so I feel like my thighs are often exposed. And so I can just like feel that knife.
01:11:59
Speaker
Go right your thigh. So we already did rankings, and I know that we're running long, but I feel like this franchise is known for opening scenes. You're not going to – there's no joke or roasting of me by just saying out loud that I wear short shorts a lot and my thighs are often exposed. You're just going run right past that. wear short shorts sometimes too. Okay. I just – I want to make sure as it's the same Travis that you had. i mean maybe is it because we are of the same ilk when it comes to six-inch seams?
01:12:28
Speaker
Four inch? I'm eight inch usually, so I'm not as short are. So you're like an alpha. yeah ah Seam length doesn't always have a ah correlation here. Are we doing more like we doing a more correlation data analysis? wait I want to do rankings though for okay we talking about, because we we haven't really covered that scene.
01:12:49
Speaker
and the The opening Jimmy fight where Spike has to fight a Jimmy and stabs him in the artery. i was just curious, like, maybe I'm just trying to hype 28 weeks later still, but if we had to organize our, our cold opens for the films, because I think this franchise is known for like every one of its open openings has been dynamite to me.
01:13:12
Speaker
Actually, I have a clear last if you want me to start with that, because think you might be the same. What's your clear last? it It was probably the first film. Like it's it's cool in the lab, right? The protesters fake break in the lab. Oh, it's out and attacks them. OK, I'm glad you reminded me that, because for some reason I was thinking the cold open was like him wandering around downtown. No, oh yeah yes, that scene is fantastic. okay the cold open. Yeah, he's later. is i'd say 28 days is last. The cold open of 28 years is... The Teletubbies. Okay, that's second for me. I think Bone Temple is third um with the the knife fight. 28 years is second with a Teletubby massacre ending with the priest just letting all those zombies kill him. But 28 weeks is still the best.
01:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's... Okay, we're we're exactly aligned then. 28 weeks is one of my favorite horror films of all time. Which is hilarious because that's the only part of that movie that Boyle actually directed. Yep.
01:14:08
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I mean, let me put it this If that movie didn't have that cold to open, Then I think i would go from always standing by it to being like, no, this is a really good movie. I'd be like, yeah, it's okay.
01:14:22
Speaker
It starts off strong. cold open out of it. Yeah, I know. It it really does something it. very much like the classic zombie trope. i lose a little bit my interest. But Trav, it's not just because it's a great scene in and of itself. It it is the entire impetus for the rest of the movie. Yeah, I mean, yeah we keep returning to that moment time and time again. So it's the it's the gift that keeps on giving.
01:14:44
Speaker
Mm-hmm. um All right, what was your cantaloupe award? Oh, I had the ah the villagers that get the gift of charity. The shirt. The shirt, I i believe it's called. The removal of the shirts.
01:15:01
Speaker
They get their chest laid open and they're still hanging and alive. And it's it's not like so scary or disturbing. I cover my eyes. But man, it's it's gory. like Costa spared no no expense here in making this a very gnarly... and visceral film.
01:15:21
Speaker
um Oh, I totally forgot to close the loop on, I was like, remember I said, oh, Samson fighting those guys plays a part in the end of the best scene of the movie, which is the 666 song.
01:15:34
Speaker
Do you realize that after his 666 Iron Maiden performance, Number of the Beast, he's, while the song is still playing and and closes out that scene, there's an image of Samson emerging from the train covered in blood. Oh, that's blood. blood makes That is blood. How fucking metal is that, dude? he Yeah, I see.
01:15:56
Speaker
I should have brought that up. That was actually in my notes for why like that scene so much is it's all focused at the bone temple, except for that just one cutaway to naked covered in blood. Samson just won't. So you thought he was greased up like, like some oil, like some oil competition, like a bodybuilder or like some, it was all like a production where i was like, all right, Kelson's getting like the greased up naked buff dude out here now.
01:16:19
Speaker
No, I just love makes more sense the blood. He's drenched in blood and he's just this big fucking, I don't know. it it was, it was so ah in, in line with the metal ask of the whole fucking scene.
01:16:33
Speaker
um Yes. Okay. Cannon fodder. um You go first. Okay. When we're first introduced to the villagers, this is kind of the start of the second act of the film.
01:16:45
Speaker
um I don't know how they've survived for these 28 years, but they must have some survival instinct. And there's the old guy kind of leading them. who who makes sure to tell the the female and the male with him.
01:17:00
Speaker
um What's his face? His son.
Survival Themes and Character Deaths
01:17:02
Speaker
ah so Andy circuses kid. He tells them like, guys, if we attack the zombies, one screams,
01:17:12
Speaker
it's going to call all its friends. We have to be really quiet. And that's literally what he says before he then goes up and attacks a zombie immediately screams and then it kills him. Okay. So very small role, but I love like his one line is like, no, no, we got to be quiet. If we just like runly attack what it's going to scream. And then he does exactly that. And it's for the, but not me. Yep.
01:17:35
Speaker
Um, RIP villager. Well, mine's similar. Um, in the sense that, uh, it's another villager who's, I guess we didn't know this in the first movie. And I can, when I keep saying first movie, I mean, 28 years later from last year. Um,
01:17:54
Speaker
is that we didn't know, at least I didn't know that people still lived on the mainland with the zombies. I thought the British Isle that's off along off the causeway, that village, I thought only human beings lived off of the island, I guess, or the mainland. But this movie shows us that's not the case, that there's villagers. And and ah the very opening scene or not the opening, but like after the knife fight, you have that bearded guy that we thought was Aaron Taylor Johnson, who ah the removal of his head and then eating the brains.
01:18:30
Speaker
That is that was my cannon fodder because. It's it is just to show how brutal ah Alpha still is, and like you could have shown that in many different ways, but they went full.
01:18:43
Speaker
They just went in. And it leans into the tonal shift and the change in directors. Because in the last film, there's a character, Eric, who gets pulled out of the train by Samson and gets his spinal cord ripped out.
01:18:57
Speaker
But it is off screen. So you see just the spinal cord drop back into the train car after it's ripped out. You see one well you see one spinal rip before that. you and you do see in last year's film and ok okay okay uh it's but it is not as it is not as graphic as this where he like kicks his head into a bowling ball and throws his fingers through his eyes and just like eats his brains like it's porridge this was very much like setting the tone for the rest of the film that's that's a really good one too yeah i really like that mine was more for comedy yours is more like gro Holy shit. That's random dude. that also yeah heed That almost went to my cantaloupe award because I was just like, they really get it. He is really getting out those brains. Then he eats his brains afterwards, which is such as what what a nod to a zombie. local a that eats brains We hadn't seen any brain eating in the franchise thus far. And finally, you're right. We haven't. um but Well, actually, I'll make that a dull
01:19:54
Speaker
and My best death is the one you already touched on, but that artery bleed out at the very beginning of the movie, just because it's, he's a tough guy, right? He has an injury, but he's showing like, you didn't even hurt me with your knife. And then when he pulls it out and realizes like that the blood loss, like it hit his, um,
01:20:12
Speaker
Femoral artery. Thank you. And, and just seeing how prolonged that depth is, how long they they drag it out. I'm like, cut away, cut away. And they just stay with it. So that that was my favorite depth to see. that was what Another, we often talk about like the role of a director and like really parsing out what they do differently than a cinematographer and the writer.
01:20:35
Speaker
Another case of like on the script probably just said, yeah, he gets hit here and he realizes he's bleeding out. Nia decides to like uncomfortably stay there longer than the script probably even thinks to tell you. Like they're just like, Oh, the director will do whatever.
01:20:51
Speaker
And she's like, all right, let me just show you that him bleeding out for like a good two minutes. I think bleeding is too soft of a word. Oh yeah. Or he is spraying. And the the sense of horror that he has is like super frightening.
01:21:05
Speaker
Um, My but this is best death, right? your Best death. Yeah. Best death. So my best death, assuming Jimmy is dead, it is him being crucified on the cross. Now down.
01:21:17
Speaker
Upside down. Yeah. It's like St. Peter. um Exactly. i saw a lot of foreshadowing in the first film that ties in with Jimmy's character that I want to talk about that has to do with his death.
01:21:29
Speaker
The first is being the when I asked you if you finished it, you text me. ah Father, why have you forsaken me? And then yes a gif of a shark, which I'm forgetting what that was.
01:21:40
Speaker
What was the shark? It's Bruce the shark from Finding Nemo. And he says something about his dad. I never knew my father. deep That's a deep cut right there. yes um But as you as people who recently saw 28 years later remember,
01:22:00
Speaker
the The most the the the line, the last line we hear from Jimmy, the kid, after he sees his father get annihilated by zombies is father, why have you forsaken me? And then fast forward to the kid mentions that and the the kid says that in the movie.
01:22:17
Speaker
In 28 years later? Yeah. Yeah, young Jimmy says, Father, why have you forsaken me? As his father's getting torn up by zombies. And then that's his word. forgot that he said it. I did too. That's one of the reasons I'm glad I watched it right before. So it's a wonderful book ending of of of the character. um Wow.
01:22:35
Speaker
Another thing is that when he first walks into the chapel to see his father before the infected get him, um the way that the shadows work when he oppi it's ah it's an upward shot right above the door. yes the shadow across the floor is upside downside down. yeah youre So you do remember that part. okay I remember that, yeah. um I just thought that was great. And then... um Oh, another one was just like...
01:23:02
Speaker
just shadows and darkness is that when that guy's femoral artery does get the best of him, the way that Jimmy's shadow overtakes him as he's looming over the body. Yes.
01:23:13
Speaker
Again, shadow play with the father and turning things upside down, of a priest then be getting an evil son who is now a Satanist. It just I thought that was all great. um yeah But yeah, I do think Jimmy's dead. i I, when I walked out of the film the first time i was like, there's no way, there's no way. But the DP of the commercial I was, we were shooting Santiago. He was like, no, I think he's dead, man. And so did Andrew, Andrew Hutchinson, the producer was like, I think so too. And I was like, why? they like,
01:23:42
Speaker
Because it's Garland's too smart of a writer. like Jimmy, at the end of the day, is he is small potatoes. He's this guy that thought he was important, but he's not. And it's just showing and it's showing the insanity of this post-apocalyptic world. The bigger issue is the infected. And so I think it would be a weird a weird decision to bring him back because what else is there to say about about Jimmy? His story is over. only thing I would challenge you on is yeah every film to date, and there's been four of them now, usually I'd say the you have a antagonist in a human form. So the the first film being the military, the second film being a different group of military, third film being kind of Aaron Taylor Johnson, not being the great dad he was cracked up to be in this one being Jimmy.
01:24:27
Speaker
And so it might be someone new. But since it should be wrapping up the franchise, I think it's the village. i think it'll be the village elders because I think they're so hung up on being militant and, um, isolationist that I, it's gotta be, it's gotta be the village elders and like Alfie or sorry, the, um, what's his face?
Thematic Intentions and Character Arcs
01:24:48
Speaker
Um,
01:24:49
Speaker
Spike is coming back like to to try to elicit their help to, you know, whether it's to help uninfect the infected or to do something. And there's going to be a conflict of like, well, no, this is our way of life and we like it this way and we've taught you all this. I think that is going to be the antagonist and that maybe Jimmy represents that that group thing. But I do think he's dead. And in in that case, as far as we know, he's dead. And so that is my favorite death. He should be best. Got it. And I do like that shot of his um of his side with that the the gash, the laceration in his side because it's very reminiscent of the all those old paintings of Jesus on the cross because it's not just the nails. He took spear to the side. He took a spear to the side. So I don't know. That's not all the symbolism. Yeah.
01:25:37
Speaker
um agreed all right our shaman twist we mentioned this but i think it was somewhat expected there's there's rumors going around but just like how the last film kind of has this epitaph at the end where we're introduced to the jimmies and it feels like a very different film for just the last few minutes this one does as well where after spike and ah jimmy inc are safely out of danger We get to see Cillian Murphy again and his daughter.
01:26:07
Speaker
Presumably hit his daughter is um Naomi Harris. Naomi Harris's daughter. that he said that Don't know if we're getting Naomi Harris back, but we can see that. I hope so, dude. She's so great.
01:26:19
Speaker
Yes. um Yeah. And it wasn't she in Annihilation? No, no, she wasn't in Annihilation. was trying to think of her and grow in the relationship. think it's Thompson. I, so if it were not for this scene,
01:26:35
Speaker
and I would be totally unsatisfied without a third film because of this ending scene and this twist of killing Murphy's return. I would at least be able to sleep at night if it ended this way.
01:26:47
Speaker
um And the reason I say that is, yes, you you don't get to and you don't get to close the loop on the villagers and the zombie baby and all that. But there is something so profound about what Killian Murphy has learned in all those years, um going from like a paper boy to a professor who seemingly as a good father and right goes out there right out and just says it. Like his his thoughts on on fascism and how we got to learn from our mistakes in history and like – why it's important to help other people and that you should punish those who make mistakes, but also reach out and like try to get people back on the level and like
01:27:27
Speaker
Don't put up borders. Don't close yourself off. um But also remind those so we don't make the same mistakes. And like I got such a butterflies in my stomach or i got chills, I guess, when they see Spike and Jimmy Inc slash Kelly and she goes, Dad, should we help them? And in a more bleak. And this is where i think Danny Boyle's optimism comes into play.
01:27:52
Speaker
Because in a more bleak film, if it was just a Garland joint, I think Garland is like, no, fuck that. Don't help them. Like, because that's, that is how humans are. Save ourselves. Yeah. yeah But no boils. Optimism shines through. And he's like, after a beat, she's like, dad, what do we do? Do we help them? And he's like, yeah, he's like,
01:28:08
Speaker
Of course, of course we help them and off screen with their weapons. They go. I just love I i love that ending. It's like it was a great ending. What's going to happen? And like that hope actually does rule the day. And it it gave me hope about, you know, you know me like ah that's been trying to doomsday for me lately. And I was like, There are people smarter than me and more capable than me. And if there's enough of them and maybe I can help them, maybe there is hope for that next generation and that we will get through this. And like it, it, it really made me walk out of that theater with like, man, these are important stories to tell right now.
01:28:45
Speaker
What is your thought? We're going way over on this pod, but Marvel made it a thing with their movies to always have mid-credits scene or end-credits scene. I feel like now we're getting the 28 years later flavor of just before the credits, like let's have a quick little epilogue um, maybe set up the next film a bit. And I've, I've honestly liked them now. I mean, I like probably the ending of the last movie more now that I've seen this one and see how it ties in.
01:29:12
Speaker
So it's aged. Well, I think the that, uh, I was excited to see this ending now as well. So, i I'm always fine with an epilogue. i think I think it's a different way to make a statement. Coogler did a ah very early mid-credit epilogue with Sinners, um which is a little more separate from the rest of the story. In this case, I think it's also a business move.
01:29:36
Speaker
I think it is to... really really give people that yearning of like, we need to see what Cillian Murphy's up to in the third movie. So I think it was strategic, but I still like this more than the ending of the last one. The last one's more interesting and like out of nowhere. this one The last one was like, here's a completely new direction we're going to take the franchise, and this one is like, is a familiar now we're bringing it back home. Exactly.
Franchise Continuity and Future Directions
01:30:01
Speaker
This is very familiar.
01:30:03
Speaker
Which, yeah, which you just don't expect because... Garland is not and a franchise guy. You know, he's he's not trying to create a multiverse or a shared universe, but maybe they see something important in Killian's character that what what he represents in this whole thing. And what I'm curious about, Trav, is like if this third movie gets made and I hope it does, which I guess would then be the fifth movie, will it tie up just these last three to be its own trilogy or is it going to tie up the whole and I'm just going to say whole four movies because I really don't think they include 28 weeks later as part of their stamp on this franchise so I think it's going to end a tetralogy of four films that are Boyle and Garland approved and
01:30:49
Speaker
will it tie up everything or is it, I don't know, like, is it, is it more like a, the con continuing adventures of to set up for more? i don't know what their plan is, but I'm interested to see what happens.
01:31:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they would disappoint. All right. For the sake of time, don't go in there. I have a very quick one. up Mine's quick too. Poor character decisions. Yeah.
01:31:11
Speaker
Dr. Kelson love that he is trying to rehab Samson, but very early in the process and early in this movie, he takes like his own drugs right next to Samson while they're laying in a field and he takes a nap next to a zombie, which is turns out for the best. He trusted him and it paid off. But holy cow that's a choice.
01:31:32
Speaker
Just like Killian Murphy says we should learn from our mistake from the past. What was my big nitpick of the first movie? Who else does that? remember Oh, yeah. Killian Murphy takes a nap out in that field. So does Naomi Harris. And they're just like, oh, let's just take a quick nap with our opiates. But at least they didn't have any zombies near them. He took a nap, literally cuddled up against the alpha. He was like, yeah, he's probably fine. a lot of trust there.
01:31:58
Speaker
That's like, who was the dude who lived with grizzly bears for years and the bears actually ate him? Werner Herzog's grizzly, don't know his real name is. It's kind of like that. Yeah, going native. Yeah, that was fine. I don't know. Did you have That's better than mine. Mine was just like, if I'm Jimmy, I'm just going to say that's not St. Nick. You can get yourself out of all this trouble. Be like, that's not what like. That's somebody else. Let's go fucking, let's fuck him up.
01:32:22
Speaker
So I think Jimmy got himself running out of fingers. I think he they needed a morale boost, right? but morale so thought um I know we're short on time, but I have, a I have a plethora of lines. I'll, I'll really, okay, go first.
01:32:37
Speaker
I'm sure we'll have some overlap. So hopefully it's less Kelly. She's lost in it. Like she's losing faith in Jimmy Crystal, but she still devoutly believes in the idea of of old Nick and and hopes he is there because she is losing hope. Like she's ah they're in a hopeless world. and it's like the idea of something bigger and stronger than you that shows the way.
01:32:57
Speaker
And ah she's telling what's his face spike about how I'm not sure if Jimmy is real, but maybe old St. Nick is, or sorry, old Nick is, I keep going back to Santa. cruz You know, it's so funny because I've never heard the devil referred to as old Nick. Yeah. it's i was good to so for losers But the first time they mentioned old Nick, I thought they were talking about Santa Claus. because they describe him as like, you know, the, the guy, he wears red. i was like, oh they're talking about Santa for some reason, like this crazy cult.
01:33:27
Speaker
is obsessed with Santa and then it took me a while to realize oh no they're talking about the devil yeah um another this also goes into the canon of great Satanist movies by the way and it might be um and she's getting lost in this days of like lost in her thoughts talking about how awesome would be to meet him and she goes and how strange and glorious it will be to meet him and I i just thought that was such a creepy line and the way she says it fucking awesome Yeah, she she definitely had, like you said, she knows Jimmy's a charlatan or suspects it, but she still has this kill or bee killed
01:34:03
Speaker
belief system that that very much plays a line with like kind of how Jimmy views the world. And so with that, she's still part of
Dialogue and Symbolism Analysis
01:34:10
Speaker
the goal. I just realized all my lines I wrote down, I'm not even gonna say them all, but they were all Jack O'Connell lines. Okay. um First is when they're all sitting around the table with the villagers. So the woman returns um and she realizes that now the Jimmy's have taken over their little camp, essentially holding them hostage. And They want to put on a show first. So asks, you know, the Jemima to the Dipsy dance.
01:34:35
Speaker
And when there's no reaction from the villagers who are just horrified at this point, he's like, do you not know the Teletubbies? Like he's, he's just, I just like that. delicious plumm like so They don't know. They, don't they lost the entire fucking bag. Like very interested in the subplots of these Teletubby shows. Yeah.
01:34:57
Speaker
Did we talk earlier in the other pod about what a smart move incorporated Teletubbies were? Because there is a read that they are like in this dystopian nightmare, Teletubbies, like remnants of old tech. I had to bring that on the 28 years episode. Yes. Yeah.
01:35:12
Speaker
um Okay, i have another Jimmy line. um This is when he has gone to talk to St. Nick, realized it's not in fact St. Nick. He's trying to sell us group on it. And they start calling him out and and Jimmy Inc.
01:35:25
Speaker
starts to call him out. And he's backtracking because they're talking about like... This is a real estate term. this is a real exactly Exactly. Because there he's talking about like the temples and he's like, oh yeah, they must be new or something. And...
01:35:41
Speaker
calls them out to be like look at all the bones like clearly they're not you knew they must have been here for years it just goes like well maybe in the last five or ten years which is not old in architectural terms classic charlatan yeah just like well technically it's the same it's the same mood of when uh Dr. Ian unexpectedly is like, I have one more command. And he's like, nah, I'm pretty sure you just have one. Just just one command.
01:36:11
Speaker
yeah you You just said you're three. And then he renamed them all. We'll be on our way. It's like, how I'm in control of everything. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. um All right. I'll have to pick this third one begrudgingly. But it is is really good. It's... ah And I say this not even knowing who gets ah Dr. Ian, who prompts him to answer with this, but they somebody says to him, I think it's Kelly, like, are you not are you not Satan? Are you not old Nick?
01:36:44
Speaker
And he goes, nothing is. No one is. It's just us. and I do love that. Yeah, that's a really good quote. yeah And he as he says that, the the camera's kind of like,
01:36:56
Speaker
it he keeps cutting further and further back to see them kind of in this world by themselves. And you can read that as many ways as you want. Clearly he means it from an atheist point of view, like, Hey, enjoy your life. Now we all die. This is really it. You could also read it as like what it feels like to be alone without nobody is coming to help you. At least no one's coming to that island to help them. it just that sense of, um, coming to terms with your situation or loneliness or whatever. Right.
01:37:23
Speaker
that Those words echoed for me. Yeah. All right. Thanks for limiting it. Let's get to dual knives. I only have two. ah first I have one. I have one that you're going to love. And I and i yeah will be so curious if you don't say it. um Okay.
01:37:41
Speaker
I almost put this in winners. Okay, go for it. I almost put this in winners, but I already have too many winners. One of my dull knives, Trav, is allt is the same dull knife, one of them that you had for Black Christmas. Do you know what it is?
01:37:58
Speaker
think about Think about a kill that is the exact same in this movie as Black Christmas. A one in a million shot with a fucking crane. For 30, 40 years apart, we see another horror film of the most unrealistic.
01:38:16
Speaker
ah Let me just aim this heavy ass crane that I've never used before to try to hit this little head that is like then this movie down on the next level way. Yes. This is like over 30 feet away.
01:38:31
Speaker
on, I hate to be that guy to say this. It did take me out a, because it was so far away. B nobody reacts until she falls down. And it's like, they just saw a fucking crane go through the back of her head. Jimmy Crystal has not said anything. like they She does this whole dramatic, and this is where it's like, okay, it's a movie. And so it's not supposed to be temporally all accurate, but yeah,
01:38:53
Speaker
I just got a kick out of it because I thought of your nitpick of Black Christmas. Yes. was a one in a million shot.
Allegorical Interpretations and Action Logic
01:38:59
Speaker
It was a crane down there. And their villager, that she could have used like a bow and arrow. It would have been more believable. Like, okay, maybe she could hit her target that way. But yep, throw in the crane. That's great one. that That is not on my list, but you are right.
01:39:12
Speaker
Okay, my two, just very quickly. I'm still confused and maybe this will be explained, but when Samson's on the train and he's he's starting to wake up, essentially come to his senses, he's the alpha.
01:39:24
Speaker
So I'm still very unsure of why all the zombies suddenly start attacking him. Oh, I can tell you, man I can tell you my my my thinking. Yeah. Is that they picked up on the fact he is no longer like them.
01:39:39
Speaker
He spoke, he said, can I get my ticket, please? So the moment they heard him speak and his eyes aren't red, They go from, oh, you're one of us. We are docile towards you to you're another. I'm going to attack you.
01:39:53
Speaker
They weren't just docile. He was their leader. I mean, if that's the case, then it's pretty cool thematically because similar things happening with Jimmy and his gang where they start to suspect this guy's not always meant to be. And some of them. Yeah, I didn't think about that. That's a mirror situation happening. But I think that's it. I think that their brains are the infection on top of their brains, which Dr. Ian um ah is like specifies like it's it's a layer it doesn't infect inside the brain maybe maybe it's just on top of it and they're just still human in there whatever that is it makes them see ah sentient civil people as the enemy enemy and the psychosis comes in where like maybe they see him in the same way he sees you know do you think they're trying to make the zombies an allegory for Republicans and
01:40:45
Speaker
I read this fucking hate intellectuals. wait So did you read that somewhere? no you just thought of that because that was just my day I did not really to appease you. Cause I know you're always looking for political. You'll be proud of me, Travis. I did see that take on Reddit and I refused to bring it up because I didn't want to hit the hammer too hard. And it wasn't my opinion. It it wasn't my take. It was something I read, but you are not, yeah there's officially now two people in the world that have that take that like maggot is just brainwashed and that we should have some sympathy for them that we should have said that it's, they are victims in this story. They were taken advantage of by a charlatan, uh,
01:41:22
Speaker
ah in djt so all right not since you are an intellectual and you're poking holes in my last tool knife explain this one smart guy this whole franchise is built on you learn to survive by avoiding the zombies do you know when they amass you can't purely fight them you can't take them on And so, I mean, I'm all for it because again, the last scene, the big production Dr. Kelson puts on is the highlight of the movie and the highlight of many movies I've seen.
01:41:51
Speaker
But when he has that sound system going and all that noise and light. Wow. You think a few zombies might pick up on that and show up a little earlier than waiting like 30 minutes for all the action to succeed. He's got fire going. He's got the amps going up to 11, he says. I don't have an answer for you other than like he's been there so long that he's established himself as like just a fixture of that place and that most zombies just kind I guess he plays music a lot there. He's playing Duran Duran. He's got Duran Duran's whole discography. Maybe the zombies are just chill with like if you pick the right song, they're not going to attack. Yeah, we need early Duran Duran.
01:42:35
Speaker
Okay. We need a... what was the What was the album that Rhea was on? It's it just self-title, I think. Yeah, their debut is in 81, and that's what had Rio on there.
01:42:46
Speaker
ah Maybe they should take the music. If he chose Land Down Under, they would have attacked. Oh, yeah. Not as good as a fan. Yeah, we're not we're not going that direction. So i'm in the you know I'm in the business of commercials and docs, and occasionally I'll work on a feature here and there. But i'm I'm on set a lot. And one of the most impressive departments to work with is the art department. And the way they can set a scene and set things up, that shit takes forever.
01:43:12
Speaker
Dr. Ian setting up like hundreds of candles and all that pyrotechnics in a matter of like 12 definitely could not happen unless he had some other little zombies helping him that he's like domesticated with his opiates that we just didn't see like those little slow lows you know a little yeah we did see many of them this movie I don't think we saw any slow lows like grass and stuff they're like cows yeah I like the slow lows um So I thought that was unrealistic. Just the set deck was pretty immaculate and he was somehow able to do that in a quick turnaround time. i'm not I'm not buying it.
01:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's tough. i mean, it's just like mine. I'm all for it. I will suspend my disbelief there because the scene was so good. But um I have a question. This is you could you could add this to any zombie movie and it's something that I was get tripped up on.
01:44:02
Speaker
OK. The way you make more zombies is that you bite somebody and they become a zombie, right? Or in this case, just get your blood.
01:44:13
Speaker
But don't the zombies eat people? So are they deciding, hey, this one I'm going to kill and eat. This other one I'm just going to take a bite out of and let him go. And then that
Zombie Transformations and Character Dynamics
01:44:23
Speaker
that guy becomes zombie. I think if they can get to you... Well, I also think...
01:44:28
Speaker
Maybe this goes back to my first tool knife. By the point the person turns, which in this franchise is pretty quick. By the point it turns, they no longer try to eat you. Right. They stop. So you have a very- They get a few chunks out of you. Exactly. You have a very quick amount of time. You got to get your food and you got to get it fast before you're no longer interested it. Well, like the guy from the beginning who turns up later a zombie. Yeah, he gets his brains eaten. That's a good point.
01:44:53
Speaker
Well, they took out his entire... There's another guy. They ripped out his spinal cord, so he is dead. Even if he was a zombie, he'd be dead. which is why they can then, I guess, eat his flesh because there's, he's not coming back. But the guy that went out with the other villagers looking for food, his ankle gets fucked. Do you remember him? what Do you see his ankle when he comes back as a zombie? That's an example of some collateral damage there of like, Hey, you're one of us, but sorry, we just gave you the worst AC, uh, the, you know, Achilles fucking ankle tear of your life. it is he He's walking on his ankle, like the ball of his ankle.
01:45:33
Speaker
um All right. I'm good. Winners and losers. All right. Let's do them quick. Yeah, this is a long one. Geez. Winner. ah The Teletubbies again.
01:45:45
Speaker
I had them as losers. Oh, really? I just like now I associate them with like death and destruction and like torture. Yeah. Okay. I was like, oh, it's nice to give him a nod. Like a pop culture shout out. But yeah, not in a positive way. Any press is a good press, I suppose. Yeah.
01:46:01
Speaker
Yeah. Winner here, the George Foreman naming convention of just basically naming everybody the same thing. Everyone gives the same The same way that George Foreman had like five kids named George Foreman. In this case, Jimmy Crystal has a bunch of Jimmies around him. bunch of Jimmies, yeah. I immediately thought of George Foreman. Probably also because our, again, mutual friend Patrick Blisanovich, shout out to Blue, for Christmas, he got me a George Foreman grill.
01:46:29
Speaker
Wow. Look at that. That's cool. Used it the other day. So thanks, Blue. Look at us giving each other gifts. Look, we're adults. I guess then to complete the triangle, I owe Blue a Christmas gift. I did give him a Christmas gift, actually. I gave him nice precoce bread set and olive oil dipping sauce. Wow.
01:46:47
Speaker
um Did he get you anything? No, he's a past client of mine, so I get all my client's gifts. All um works right. Winner, ah Killian and killian in Naomi Harris's relationship.
01:47:02
Speaker
It worked out for them. They had a kid. They would have not expected that. for them They went the distance. Hope she's okay. We don't see her at the end of this. season Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if they can't afford to cast her, if they can't entice her to come back, then I think they'll have to just write her off. I mean, that girl is like, ah what? Ever since the accident.
01:47:21
Speaker
That girl's like 10 or 11 years old, right? Yeah. so stay She's at least made it halfway through the 28th Yeah. More than half. I mean, yeah, at least 18 solid years together.
01:47:34
Speaker
um But yeah, I could definitely see them being like, oh, that sucks on the causeway. We lost, yeah lost old girl. um Okay. Winners. Anytime there's a, there's a, um a set piece or a sequence where you have your characters behind enemy lines and, And the one I'm talking about in this movie is.
01:47:59
Speaker
Where all of a sudden Spike and Kelly form an alliance. You feel that anxiety of them operating within wolves because they've already decided we're going to be against them and go away from them later. And again, I got to go back to got a shout out Nia's filmmaking here.
01:48:16
Speaker
The next shot. this is the sleeping bag kind of environment that they're within the woods is literally them at the top of the frame behind. And then at the bottom of the frame is everybody else, the the rest of the gang. And they truly feels like they're behind enemy lines. Like they are, they are the minority. They are surrounded by people that are going to be opposed to them in some way. So winner for me is just like the behind enemy lines kind of set up for any sequence. Yeah. is you love owen wilson here basically owen wilson and gene hackman's film 2001 behind me lines is just uh that's my north star still think about it today yeah um all right last winner for me nhs dr kelson identifies with them and hey great thing for the public health system over there and he doesn't charge him a dime
01:49:06
Speaker
I did like the little shot that Jimmy gives to ah Dr. Ian's like, so all these people, you patience.
Past Reflections and Director's Impact
01:49:12
Speaker
ah Yes. That was another one of my lines. or Like that to every line from that dialogue like that.
01:49:18
Speaker
Again, the, ah the performance that Kelson, Dr. Kelson puts on is the highlight of the movie, but that dialogue just between the two of them is, is a very close second for me. Yeah.
01:49:30
Speaker
That's great. um All right. You had, i already told you one of my losers in Teletubbies. Yeah. This is my other one. My loser is the is Samson's dick. I swear he lost an inch.
01:49:42
Speaker
I'm not kidding. And watched the two movies back to back and I feel like we were going from a strong 10 flaccid to like maybe eight, maybe nine flaccid. Maybe it was like getting closer to winter. Temperatures were a little cooler. It's starting to shrink little bit.
01:49:57
Speaker
I mean, he's never going to get to a button in a fur coat status, but you know. it's it it it was not as let's just say it was not as girthy or magnificent as it was in the first film and it was still it was still impressive but i feel like nia was like we've had enough of this he's gonna start wearing a loincloth we're humanizing him so maybe it was intentional um all right my only loser i have is uh well i guess it's losers is
01:50:29
Speaker
Imogen Poots and her kid brother from 28 weeks later. think they set it up for the last installment to be a nice reunion of all the main characters of all the films thus far who are still living. And i I highly doubt we are going to see her make a return or her brother make return from 28 weeks later.
01:50:45
Speaker
Well, maybe they're just living a normal life. Like Killian, the rest of the world is fine. They take the helicopter out and you see the helicopter crashed in Paris at the end of that film. But you then learn Paris has been reclaimed and saved. And so maybe they're just living in France now. Yeah, hanging out at Louvre.
01:51:02
Speaker
Enjoying the nice cuisine. Yeah, probably wrote a few books or made a few podcasts about their experience around the infected, just just monetizing it. I've actually had kids in the manosphere now. Rogan and Andrew Tate. and Yeah, so he'd be like 38 or so. He was about 10. He's in the manosphere prime age. 38. Yeah, that's the sweet spot. Poor demographic. All right.
01:51:26
Speaker
So should count down and say it at the same time? like Oh, yeah. Okay. Sure. Yeah. We're we supposed to do that for the scarometer. Yeah. And now we've flipped it, but now we're, we're in this, we we're right in the hot street. I feel like we go I feel like we will have the same one on this.
01:51:43
Speaker
Okay. You want to count us down? I'll do it. Three, two, Nia DaCosta. Hell a yeah i win i was and I was familiar with her work and I was not impressed. And so talk about changing my opinion on someone. like i I love this this. This was an exceptional film, a surprisingly good film. And she carried the torch so well. I made it her her own.
01:52:12
Speaker
I agree fully. It's hard with these movies not to give it to Boyle or Garland and because they they loom so large. But dude, she went toe to toe, like wasn't antagonistically different, but wasn't um wasn't like unexcitedly similar, did her own thing within an existing framework that still worked. And, you know, if for some reason Boyle or Garland can't direct the third one would not hate it all. Yeah, coming back, I with you would not hate it. I thought it makes me want to finally go watch the O.G. Candyman and her reboot. I know you said you just thought it was good, but I'm just interested in in in excavating her work because this movie made me really interested in what else she can do.
01:52:57
Speaker
um Honorable mention, and I said it already, but if they had not cast Ralph Fiennes and Jack O'Connell in their two roles, I think this movie would have suffered a lot for it. i i can't yeah imagine anyone else in those two roles doing better performance than the ones they gave us. They when I feel like as a five star tribe, I know that you will see this movie again at some point. And when you do the excitement that builds that leads up to their first interaction is so great. It holds up. You notice more things.
01:53:31
Speaker
It's like, honestly, I hate to. I hate to do this, but it did remind me kind of the Pacino De Niro heat. Yes. Out of the diner. Yeah. Like these two sharks circling each other in their own ways for a whole movie and a movie and a half. And then they meet and it's glorious.
Closing Remarks and Reflections
01:53:49
Speaker
All right. Well, thank you guys for listening. We'll see you hopefully next week. Bye. How's that?
01:53:59
Speaker
How's that? How's that? How's that?
01:54:12
Speaker
Trav, now that we have perspective behind us, it does seem that we were on the higher end. oh my god. oh like That me. That's the Ben Gardner jump scare of the night. That is the jump scare. Yikes.