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Breaking into Bollywood with Shashank Khaitan (Director, Badrinath ki Dulhania)
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How does a Bollywood director think about making blockbusters?
From script to screen to box office success, discover the hidden economics of India's most glamorous industry.
Ever wondered how a Bollywood film actually gets made and who makes money from it? In this revealing episode, acclaimed director Shashank Khaitan pulls back the curtain on the complex business machinery of Hindi cinema. From his journey as a small-town dreamer in Nashik who played tennis at the junior international level to becoming the creative force behind romantic comedies like Humpty Sharma Ki Dulhania and Badrinath Ki Dulhania, Shashank breaks down the entire filmmaking value chain. He shares candid insights on how producers, directors, actors, and studios split revenues, the evolving role of OTT platforms in film financing, and why building a rom-com requires balancing romance with comedy down to precise percentages.
Beyond Bollywood, Shashank reveals his ambitious second act as co-founder of Global Sports Pickleball, where he's applying his storytelling expertise to build India's next major sporting ecosystem. He shared this fascinating journey in a candid conversation with host Akshay Datt, exploring how capital flows through India's entertainment industry, the rise of franchise leagues, and why karma matters more than luck in building sustainable success.
Key Highlights:
👉How Shashank transitioned from junior international tennis to becoming a successful Bollywood director with multiple hit films
👉The complete economics of Bollywood filmmaking, from script acquisition and actor fees to OTT deals worth 25-130 crores and theatrical revenue splits
👉Why producers are the dealmakers and chief marketing officers who manage everything from casting to distribution strategy
👉The secret to rom-com success: balancing romance and comedy while creating characters audiences genuinely care about
👉How Shashank is building Global Sports Pickleball into a 1000-crore business by 2027, leveraging his storytelling skills to create India's next sporting phenomenon
👉Why self-awareness and process-driven thinking trump outcome obsession for long-term entrepreneurial success
Chapters:
00:00 - Shashank Khaitan's Journey from Tennis to Bollywood
08:07 - How Bollywood Films Actually Get Made
21:56 - Breaking Down Bollywood's Revenue Models
42:20 - Producer's Role in Film Business
01:01:03 - Marketing Strategy for Bollywood Releases
01:23:36 - Building Global Sports Pickleball Empire
01:40:56 - Future of Sports Infrastructure in India
#BollywoodBusiness #FilmIndustryIndia #BollywoodDirector #MovieProduction #OTTPlatforms #NetflixIndia #DharmaProductions #YashRajFilms #FilmFinancing #BollywoodEconomics #IndianCinema #RomComMovies #HumptySharmaKiDulhania #BadrinathKiDulhania #PickleballIndia #GlobalSportsPickleball #SportsStartups #SportsInfrastructure #IndianSportsIndustry #StartupPodcast #EntrepreneurJourney #BollywoodInsights #FilmDistribution #MovieMarketing #CelebrityEntrepreneurs #SportsLeagues #IPLModel
Disclaimer: The views expressed are those of the speaker, not necessarily the channel
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Transcript
From Filmmaker to Sports Entrepreneur
00:00:00
Speaker
Shashank Khaitaan is Bollywood filmmaker turned sports entrepreneur. He has delivered like Humti Sharma ki Dulhaniya Badrinath ki Dulhaniya. He building Sports, India's fastest growing pickleball platform.
00:00:15
Speaker
so ketan is a bollywood filmmaker turned sports entrepreneur he hased hits like hamtihar makiduhana and barinakidulana he's building global sports india's fastest growing pickleball platform I'm that boy with dreams from a small city called Nasik and with a lot of dreams in my eyes throughout all my life.
00:00:36
Speaker
It started with me always wanting to be an athlete.
Roots and Early Aspirations
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome to the Founder Thesis podcast. um Thanks so much. Who is Shashank? I want to get into that question first. You are somebody, so you are legit.
00:01:06
Speaker
I think a very tough question to answer when just asked so straight up. But I think I'm that boy with dreams from a small city called Nasik.
00:01:18
Speaker
And with a lot of dreams in my eyes throughout all my life. ah It started with me always wanting to be an athlete. I was a... Tennis players since the time I had consciousness in my life.
00:01:30
Speaker
ah Always played sports all my life. ah Whether it was cricket, whether it was tennis, squash, badminton. Played multiple sports at the university level. Always focused on tennis and cricket as the two games which I really wanted to make a career with.
00:01:45
Speaker
ah Didn't work out. Things didn't work out the way I thought they would. In some cases, the competition was very high. In some cases, I wasn't driven enough. And then I did what every Marwadi boy does, joins his family business.
00:01:59
Speaker
oh Worked with my dad for some time, worked with my uncles for some time. But all my life, I'd always been at... We used to make wire mesh. We used to make wire mesh, which was used in the paper pulp industry.
00:02:11
Speaker
So the color of the wire and the texture of the paper is basically dependent on the wire it is filtered in. So it's called fine wire mesh. And that's what we did. And it was a family business. And...
00:02:23
Speaker
So we used to export all across the world, definitely lot of business in India. And the other thing other than sports, which always attracted me growing up was the movies, a lot of theater.
00:02:36
Speaker
I did a lot of school plays growing up. ah So that was always my so-called the other love, the other passion.
Transition to Filmmaking
00:02:44
Speaker
And then one fine day, I just got up and I said, you know what?
00:02:47
Speaker
I can't be sitting on an office desk doing business. It's not working out for me. I need to find something which um can make me move around, travel around. I need to keep moving. I don't like being static.
00:03:01
Speaker
And that's how I kind of rediscovered the movies from a business perspective, from a passion perspective, decided to do my film course. And yeah, that began the journey of me pursuing the movies.
00:03:14
Speaker
How old were you when you took this life pivot? I was actually 24. i i had I had worked a lot. I used to also dance. I used to teach dance. i had a dance academy of my own.
00:03:27
Speaker
So there was a time when I was doing a lot of events and this dance academy business of mine. And it came to a point now I needed to take the big step of either joining MBA school or joining a film school.
00:03:40
Speaker
And I chose the film school. Mr. Subhash guy was coming up with his film school in Mumbai, which was called Whistling Woods International. It was the first batch. um So I decided instead of MBA, I'd in fact started studying for my CAD exams.
00:03:54
Speaker
I'd started the regular drills of classes. ah But I just choose to i chose to go to film school instead, ah pursue my two-year diploma in film education, and then start working in the industry.
00:04:06
Speaker
And... did you Did you go through that struggle? like I mean, youre and the most famous thing about Bollywood is the struggle which people go through unless they are from a family which has been there.
00:04:19
Speaker
You know, Akshay, over the years, I've realized that this word is a very misused word. ah I mean, whichever industry you choose to pursue, there are going to be challenges and there are going to be a certain expectations of you wanting to work hard.
00:04:33
Speaker
Even when we move cities, like when you move from Narsingh to Mumbai, There are challenges the city throws at you when it comes to adapting, getting used to it. It's the same for a big city guy coming to a small city.
00:04:44
Speaker
So even if you come from Mumbai to Nasik, there are going to be adapting issues. There are going to be things you need to get used to. So luckily for me, I've always looked at all of these challenges as experiences of life.
00:04:56
Speaker
I've never ever... called it a struggle ah because I'm like, it's my own choice. I am here because I want to be here. If I'm really finding it a struggle, I should just go back home and do other things.
00:05:07
Speaker
But the very fact that I want to continue being in Mumbai, pursuing the film industry, I always looked at it as experiences. And the thing I realized is when you look at it as experiences, then you can learn something from it. You can modify things around.
00:05:20
Speaker
And fight back. If you always keep looking at it as a struggle, you'll keep trying to empathize with yourself or sympathize with yourself. And that's never a good place to be in. So, and no, I never... I definitely had years of experience so from from film school to the time I made my first film. It was a five-year journey.
00:05:39
Speaker
Lots and of of ups and downs. But I always looked at it as experiences. but What were... Give me like a... broad, big picture understanding of
Challenges in Bollywood
00:05:49
Speaker
those five years. Like, how did you get to making your first movie?
00:05:52
Speaker
What led to it in those five years? Multiple things going your way, multiple things not going your way began begins with you wanting to assist. Then you're starting an assistant's job.
00:06:04
Speaker
ah When you're fresh out of film school, you really feel that you're going to turn you know change the world. And then you the industry hits you and you're like, okay, you need to learn a few other things which film school didn't teach you because the language is different. The people are different.
00:06:18
Speaker
There's a certain protocol that happens. So you start kind of picking those jobs up. So my journey began with... trying to I was in a post-production assistant in a company called Mirchi Movies.
00:06:29
Speaker
From there, I went into advertising for two years. I was doing a lot of advertising work as an assistant. So a lot of campaigns which come out and which people see on TV. you ah I'm like the assistant director behind that.
00:06:41
Speaker
Along the time... I wanted to make my own movie because I was like, this industry is never going to understand me. I need to take a step ahead. So I managed to take a loan from an uncle of mine, put some money of my own, gathered my film school friends and we ended up making a feature film.
00:06:58
Speaker
The film never released. It was called Shervani Ka But it gave me all the learnings of business that I wanted. All the challenges as a ah young filmmaker can face, understanding the different aspects of the film business.
00:07:11
Speaker
One is, of course, writing, direction, production, which is making movies. But then is the business side of it, which is the exhibition, the distribution, the marketing. And that's when I realized that to ultimately make movies, you it's not just about passion.
00:07:24
Speaker
You need to know the business side of things as well. And from there, I got a job as an assistant director in a Yasharaj movie. um It was called Ishagzadeh.
00:07:35
Speaker
From then on, went to do some work for Should They See Romance. And all this while was writing multiple scripts, writing stories, which I'd learned in Whistingwoods International. And finally, in the year 2013, I graduated in 2008.
00:07:47
Speaker
managed
00:07:51
Speaker
i've managed to I pitched my script to Dharma Productions. They liked the script and began the journey of my first film, which was Humpty Sharma Ki Dunanya. Okay, amazing.
00:08:01
Speaker
And how many films have you done since then? What's your body of work? i am I'm just finishing my my fifth film called Sunny Sanskari Ki Tulsi Kumari is up for release.
00:08:12
Speaker
It in fact releases on the 2nd of October worldwide. ah I've made another film for Netflix in the meantime. Then I've gone on to produce three more movies and run a show for Netflix.
00:08:24
Speaker
So about 10-12 projects in the last 10 years. Okay. um You know, you spoke of Dharma Yashraj. I want to kind of understand who are the stakeholders or the players in Bollywood? Who funds the movie? Who makes it?
00:08:47
Speaker
Where does the idea come from? What's the role of a producer? What's the role of a director? just Just help me understand all the different parties who come together to make a film. So principally, a film begins with an idea.
00:09:01
Speaker
So a writer comes up with an idea. He then writes a story, screenplay around it. The next step is either to find an actor or to find a production house. So either actor likes the script. One question on the writer part first.
00:09:14
Speaker
Do writers get commissioned to write a story or do they write a story and then they find buyers for it? So multiple either ah multiple aspects work on that.
00:09:25
Speaker
oh A production house can reach out to a writer and say that, hey, we have an idea. We want to commission this project. Or say, hey, we really liked what you wrote last. Can you write something for us?
00:09:36
Speaker
Or a writer can write his own script and approach an actor or a producer to get it made. So both the models exist. oh From a... If you're a writer trying to sell your script, and an actor buy-in is like a sure shot way to sell it.
00:09:51
Speaker
Like if you have an actor who says, yes, I'm interested. interested So it's not, neither neither ways are sure shot because an actor also will want to have a good production house attached with it. And then he'll say, okay, let me see if a good producer comes on board.
00:10:03
Speaker
And similarly, even if a producer likes the script, He will want the correct actor on board. So if it's a big budget film, he will want a star in place. If it's a newcomer project, then he'll want to hunt for the best newcomer.
00:10:15
Speaker
There have been instances in movies where everything has worked out, but casting has not worked out and the film has not happened. There has also been cases where everything else has worked out and the cost of production has not fit in.
00:10:27
Speaker
And that's why the film was not made. So in ah in a very principled sense, the two decision makers for a movie is an actor and a producer from the perspective of if an actor is interested, chances are the movie will be made.
00:10:41
Speaker
And if the producer is interested, chances are the movie will be made. And then, of course, depending on the level... caliber and star value or content value of a director, even a director can float in
The Film Industry Structure
00:10:54
Speaker
a project.
00:10:54
Speaker
So if a director believes in a project, chances are if he's a big enough name who can draw, who has a draw at the box office, then even he has the ability to put the film together and ensure that the film gets made.
00:11:07
Speaker
So these are the basic decision makers. ah You wrote Humphrey Sharma Ki Dulanya first and then you tried to find a buyer. So whom did you convince first? An actor or a student? No, i went straight to the purdue a production house. So in my journey as an assistant, what had happened is I had managed to meet a few creative supervisors or producers of Dharma.
00:11:26
Speaker
And I was regularly in touch with them over the last, ah for a span of about two years, pitching them different ideas, sending them different scripts and stuff like that. ah From my perspective, but but also because I come from film school and we had a very simple pitching project,
00:11:43
Speaker
you know, ah process taught to us, I kind of always went to the producer's route because I was like, hey, if the producer likes the script, I'm sure we can find the correct actor. Also, because of the stature of the producer, I mean, when it comes to Karanjowar, Dharma Productions or Aditya Chopra, Yash Chopra, you know, Yashraj films, chances are they have enough...
00:12:04
Speaker
oh opportunities, influence or rather they have enough ah reach to be able to go to multiple different actors for a project to get completed. you know So they're not dependent upon just approaching one or two people.
00:12:17
Speaker
ah Sometimes for a newer producer, those challenges always exist. So for me, that challenge happened when I was trying to make my other projects. When I realized that, you know what, I need the backing of a strong director-producer.
00:12:31
Speaker
Also the things I'm talking about are which existed in the year 2013-14. ah thirteen fourteen Because at that time, the advent of the OTT platform like Netflix, Amazon, Jio Hotstar, they weren't as prominent.
00:12:46
Speaker
The producer was the main so-called decision maker when it kind of came to making the movies. ah A lot has changed since then till now, in the last 11 years. So the industry has seen a dynamic shift in terms of decision making, who funds the project, all of that.
00:13:02
Speaker
So of course, when I was making Humpty, that was the so-called hierarchy. i didn't And in today's day and age… Sorry. And pitched yourself as the director only, like when you were pitching the script? Yes. Yes.
00:13:14
Speaker
I pitched myself as the writer and director of the film. Also, because of the because of the fact… It's very normal in Bollywood. In Bollywood, in fact, most directors are writers. There are definitely exceptions as well.
00:13:27
Speaker
But more or less, I would say about 60% of the directors are writer-directors. And 40% depend on writers who write their scripts. But having said that, it doesn't mean I don't use the services of other writers to kind of ah help me write a better script.
00:13:43
Speaker
It would probably mean that the base idea and the base screenplay is mine. But then I will reach out to other professionals to ensure that they can add another layer to the script as well. how like What's the difference between a bad script and a good script?
00:14:01
Speaker
but Perspective. That's the only difference between ah bad film and a good film. Because many a times good films don't get made and bad films get made. I think it's perspective. It is ah which producer, which actor, which writer, which director are thinking what at some point of time.
00:14:19
Speaker
Sometimes four energies come together who are very driven to make a certain kind of a film, which when it turns out and releases, the world terms it as a bad film. But the origins of it were the same as it would have been for a good film.
00:14:34
Speaker
It would have been that Four people are thinking of the same thing while trying to start a project or a film. So the only difference is that, genuinely speaking. And sometimes a lot of good scripts along the way, till it's completed, they lose its charm, they lose its relevance. Sometimes they're not made very well.
00:14:53
Speaker
And even the opposite happens. Sometimes very average scripts with just the good professionals coming together, by the time it releases, it becomes a good film. ah So the... You're saying that the difference is perspective. Perspective means and the like the the viewers, the audience ah reception to the movie. like That is the difference. or what you That's not the difference. The perspective is at the time that film was green, ah you know, ah approved or commissioned, what was the headspace, mindspace of the producers, actors, writers, directors?
00:15:27
Speaker
So many a times… Whether their vision is same or different. like Absolutely. They have to be aligned. See, a lot of filmmaking is just about bringing a lot of professionals together. Like I always say, for especially for a writer, director, it's a lot of man management.
00:15:41
Speaker
Because you're dealing with professionals who are very skillful, but with skill and such ah technology also comes a little bit of ego. So a lot of our director, writer's job is ego management.
00:15:55
Speaker
Even to get a film made, you sometimes have to just ensure that everyone's being able to see the film the way you are kind of explaining it. Many a times it's happened that what you were trying to explain, they kind of understood it on the word level or on the paper level.
00:16:10
Speaker
But when they saw the film, the producer was like, dude, this is not at all the film I'd expect. So, I mean, that is always the kind of risk you take as a writer, director, producer when you're making a movie because there are so many different processes which go into it.
00:16:26
Speaker
And not all of it can be captured right in the beginning. There's a lot of a certain things which are going to stay ambiguous when it comes to, hey, how do I visualize it? What's the scale of the film?
00:16:39
Speaker
How are the actors going to perform? Will everything come true? We do a lot of storyboarding and stuff, but none of it is necessarily foolproof in terms of its final vision.
00:16:50
Speaker
What is the storyboarding process like? What does that mean? So when we when we kind of start, especially at the direction stage, when we start breaking down the script into its different parts, the production aspect of it, what is the going to be the requirement of the script. So for example, principally, let's say there is one scene written.
00:17:09
Speaker
That scene is going to have multiple different elements elements for different production ah disciplines of the film. So the production department is going to read all its requirements.
00:17:20
Speaker
What's the location? What's the actor strength of this film? What is going to be the logistical requirement of it? What is going to be the... ah manpower required to pull it off.
00:17:33
Speaker
From a costume department, they're looking at what are the different costumes that would be important that I need to bring here. The prop department is thinking what are the different props that I require. ah Then you have something called the action props and the non-action props. Action props are props which the actors are holding.
00:17:50
Speaker
Other props are just around the space Then from an assistant director's team perspective, they will look at what's the dialogue. Sound is thinking about its a recording process.
00:18:02
Speaker
Is it a noisy location? Is it in the studio? What kind of equipment will I require to capture the sound? If it's a song sequence, then the choreographer has his requirements. Now, all these people with their requirements sit with the director to first understand his vision of it and then start referencing things accordingly.
00:18:22
Speaker
ah then So I will tell them, hey, I'm imagining a big mansion. So then they will provide me first a visual representation of what the big mansion is. Then the production team will try and find the actual location or if we have to build a set.
00:18:36
Speaker
So all these processes, this is what I discussed is for one scene.
Directing and Creative Inspiration
00:18:41
Speaker
This happens scene after scene for the whole film. And the actors are also involved in this or this is largely production? and This is a production call.
00:18:49
Speaker
The actors would be involved in it from a creative perspective when they're sitting with the writer-director in terms of, hey, I think we can do a little bit more in this scene. What if I add these two lines? Do you think ah it's written over here that I'm standing?
00:19:02
Speaker
Do you think if I lie down and do this scene, it can add something? So those are all the kind of discussions you will traditionally have with an actor and kind of understand, ah start building on the scene.
00:19:14
Speaker
Okay. um Your ah very first movie that you made, um what skills did you need? ah Because, you know, as a first timer, you would have discovered that, okay, I need to be skilled at this and this and this and this. Like, like what all skills did you need in order to make it? Did you need, like, a sense of, ah ah like, say, visually what things should look like or color or sound or, like, like you know, from the technical skills perspective?
00:19:43
Speaker
I think a director needs to know everything a little bit. He does not need to be a specialist in any of it. Right. ah So, and luckily for me, because I had made another film, which never released, which I mentioned about my first film, which was Sherewani Ka Hai, before my official first film, which was Hamti Sharma Ki Dulhaniya released, a lot of the mistakes that I made on those kind of prep me up to become a more... ah a solid director or I would say focused director in terms of my requirement and my needs for the scene.
00:20:16
Speaker
ah When you are starting out as your first film, there are multiple things which depend on whom you have cast and whom you have produced. You might be working with a production house and with a cast where money is not an issue and you can ask for anything under the sun.
00:20:31
Speaker
And then you might be making your first film in the toughest of circumstances where money is at a premium. So then you constantly need to keep innovating in different ways to ensure that you still get the end result, but you don't have money to spend.
00:20:44
Speaker
So they are both ends of the spectrum. And from a technical perspective, you need to... More than the technicality, you need to know the language and you need to set a language with all your HODs so that they can understand you and you can communicate freely with them.
00:21:01
Speaker
ah What is very important, which I feel for newcomers, that they need to understand that ah they need to be as clear in their communication and also to every department because when you get on a set, even if one department is not in sync with you,
00:21:17
Speaker
They can be haywire on the set or the location. But if everyone's kind of in collaboration with you, they've understood your vision, they've understood the shot breakdown, they've understood what you want to do with that scene, most of the times you will have a great flow with the scene.
00:21:33
Speaker
So I think the most important element is communication. ah Definitely trying to inspire these different technicians and HODs to give it their best. And also, if you can, transfer ownership of that department to them.
00:21:48
Speaker
So if you make it seem like, hey, listen, this department is yours and you are the HOD of this film and you are responsible for it, chances are you have 10 solid minds working for you, ensuring that your vision comes to life.
00:22:03
Speaker
Okay, amazing. um what ah like How did you select which genre you want to make a film in? Like Humtee Seruma Ki Dholaina is like rom-com? Yes, it's a rom-com.
00:22:16
Speaker
You know it happens by chance, to be really honest. ah When you get out of film school and when you're writing, you tend to write many different genres because you yourself are not aware where your first break is going to come from and who is the first producer who's going to trust you.
00:22:31
Speaker
So you end up writing multiple different things. In fact, Humti Sharma Ki Dulhanya, which was my love story, it actually started out as a... Con drama.
00:22:42
Speaker
It started out as a two character con drama set in small town India where I had written Humpty and Kavya as two characters who were supposed to be these street smart kids who are out there to con people and make a life.
00:22:57
Speaker
By the time I ended up writing the first half of the film, I realized that it's a very badly written movie but I found two love very loving characters of Humpty and Kavya. So then I was like, you know, these characters, I've written some flavor to them. Their backgrounds are interesting.
00:23:12
Speaker
I've written some fun scenes between them. What more can I do with these characters? And then I just started doing an exercise. One of my favorite films growing up was a film called Dilwale Dulanya Le Jayenge, popularly known as DDLJ.
00:23:26
Speaker
I said, know what? What if Humti is Raj and Kavya is Simran and in instead of London, they meet in Delhi? right I just started that exercise in my head.
00:23:38
Speaker
And soon as I started writing it with a flavor of India, flavor of North India, by the time I finished writing the first half, I really felt I had a special film in hand.
00:23:49
Speaker
And I had a gut feel that this film is going to get made. So you sometimes just discover your genre accidentally. Interesting. Fascinating. ah What are the challenging things about making a rom-com?
00:24:02
Speaker
Like what do you need to pay special attention to?
00:24:07
Speaker
are two very important things. One is the romance should work and the second, the comedy should work. Because if either of them don't land, you can either get into a very boring film or a very cheesy film.
00:24:20
Speaker
So you need to be able to get the balance correct. and a And a lot of rom-com is honestly, from now my experience of making multiple rom-coms and films, it's got to do with your personality as well.
00:24:32
Speaker
up The rom-coms in general need to have a little bit of your touch. ah I, growing up, I'm a big fan of stand-up comedy. I love self-deprecating humor.
00:24:43
Speaker
So when I was writing this movie, and I've traveled a lot thanks to sports all across India. So i had the pleasure of meeting very interesting people in every sphere of my life. So when I started writing the film, I was trying to put all of these experiences together.
00:24:57
Speaker
Like saying, how can I use a little bit of this stand-up humor, put it into my male protagonist, and then have the female protagonist respond with another set, and i create this beautiful banter between them.
00:25:10
Speaker
And then... rely a little bit on all the films I have seen when it comes to Yash Chopra classics or Karan Johar classics and say, take a leaf of that book and create the romance as well.
00:25:23
Speaker
So, if I can balance these two worlds together, I might have a very new, interesting, small-town, India-based rom-com. And that was my endeavor when I was making Ahamti Sharma Ki Dulanya.
00:25:35
Speaker
So, as a director, do you go through life... ah looking at every person you meet as a character. um Oh, absolutely. You have to be switched on all the time. When I was in film school, one of my HODs was Mr. Nasiruddin Shah.
00:25:51
Speaker
And when he was teaching us a lecture in acting, he once told us that as a creative artist, as a film personality, as someone who is in the movies, and especially as actors and directors, you never stop observing people, even in the face of the biggest personal tragedies.
00:26:09
Speaker
so he And I'd asked him that question in class, I said, sir, what does that mean? And he said, even if you have lost a loved one, You need to, at the time of the rituals or the, you know, the pious ceremony and all the different functions that happen when the body is being laid to rest, you need to observe human behavior even then.
00:26:32
Speaker
And it was so ironic that when he told me that, about three weeks later, I lost my grandmother. I was in Mumbai. She lived lived in a small town called Nasik, about 100 miles away.
00:26:43
Speaker
And the minute I heard the news, of course, my first instinct was i need to get to Nasik. But Nasir Saab's voice kicked in. And subconsciously, I started observing my behavior and the behavior of people around me and to realize how different people react to death differently.
00:27:02
Speaker
and how the atmosphere at a, you know, ah so-called... oh cremation ceremony or when the body is brought home, so many people react differently to that.
00:27:16
Speaker
And when I started observing it, it gave me such a big way a window into what human life is all about, what human relationships are all about. And you tend to kind of remember all of that and use it when the time of a script arrives and say that, hey, I remember observing this.
00:27:32
Speaker
How do I use it in this scene? So as a creative person, you need to be active all the time. That's fascinating. Okay, so coming back to who are the players? So you said script writer, director, often these two are the same, ah is where the idea starts from.
00:27:49
Speaker
ah So you have an idea of a movie. Yeah, correct. I have an idea of a movie. Now, depending upon, again, who I am as the writer, director, if I'm an absolute...
00:28:01
Speaker
rookie new writer, not much experience or any unreleased work, then I will have to get down to the stage of writing the entire screenplay of the film before I can start pitching it around.
00:28:13
Speaker
right Very seldom will some serious producer take me seriously on the basis of just a, say, four-page synopsis or an eight-page synopsis. But as i as I kind of climb the ladder of saying one film old, two film old, then people start trusting me even on the level of a synopsis or a treatment note.
00:28:32
Speaker
But ideally for a new writer... Because you have a track record, they've kind of experienced your material, they've seen the success of that material with the audiences as well. But if you're a newbie, the chances are you need to write a 100 to 120 page screenplay for a movie.
00:28:48
Speaker
Or if you're making a show, because shows are a big thing now, then you need to have the pilot episode ready and the arc of the entire... Season of series ready before you can start pitching it to producers of the platform So the producers slash platforms now become the big step of these are the guys who decide which film or which show are going to get made And it's only once you have their approval now their approval could be twofold It could be a project which is not very expensive not dependent on casting so that approval can come in immediately
Casting and Production Dynamics
00:29:22
Speaker
But you might pitch a project which they really like, but the money depends on the actor you can cast. So then becomes the second process where you start pitching it to actors. And only when the concerned actors are on board, does the pro project get greenlit and the production process begins.
00:29:42
Speaker
How do you judge that who's a good actor for a certain movie? um It's a little bit of instinct. ah Most writers, when they are writing something, they have an actor in mind.
00:29:53
Speaker
They have someone in mind. Also, sometimes you can have anyone in mind, but when it comes to the pitching stage, you need to be pragmatic. ah Chances are, and again, there are no rules, but chances are if you're a brand new director-writer, you might not get the biggest star to act in your film.
00:30:12
Speaker
right So you need to be aware of whom do you think is this the person. So like for example, when I was putting pitching Amti Sharma Ki Dulanya and the only company I ever pitched that movie was to Dharma.
00:30:24
Speaker
When they asked me whom do you have in mind, i remember student of the year I just released a year back. So I took the names of Varun Dhawan and Aliyabhad. Because they at that time weren't big, massive movie stars.
00:30:37
Speaker
So I kind of took that punt and saying that, you know what? This is a realistic casting option. If I take any random name, ah I might not get it. And even the producer might think that this guy is a bit loony, right?
00:30:51
Speaker
Or he's delusional. So you got to kind of balance reality and expectation. But once you've been an assistant for where for some time in the industry, and and and that's why assisting is very important,
00:31:03
Speaker
When you're assisting, you're privy to many conversations on the set, in the offices, which kind of prepares you in terms of what different people's mindsets are. So even you as a writer-director are able to tap into that knowledge and then make...
00:31:19
Speaker
Make pitches based on that. If you have someone with absolutely no experience, haven't assisted, then sometimes you tend to live in a slightly bigger dream world.
00:31:30
Speaker
It's worked out for some people because they've managed to cast big as well. But chances are 99%, the root of assisting and then just understanding the industry you're working in is a better approach.
00:31:43
Speaker
Hmm. Okay, got it. So then you pitch to actors. And this is primarily the lead actors that you need to buy in from. and Primarily the lead actors. ah They are the ones whom we say drive the film in terms of its collections, in terms of its recoveries.
00:31:58
Speaker
So once they are on board, and once the budgets have been locked in, then begins the entire pre-production process of, you know, a script reading, casting the all the other characters in the movie, locking all the locations...
00:32:12
Speaker
getting into um your meetings with all the costume designers. In my case, especially because I make music-heavy films as well, start meetings with music composers, ah lyric writers.
00:32:24
Speaker
ah All these processes are happening ah together. As a director, you're kind of meeting everyone, giving it the input. Your assisting team is kind of following up on everyone.
00:32:36
Speaker
And everyone's kind of presenting you ah things at different stages. So for example, like a costume ah team, are the costume HODs will first send you some references just to test your vision out of saying, are you imagining the character wearing these things?
00:32:52
Speaker
We'll shortlist it down to my vision and HOD like, ah ah senior HODs in costume like Manish Malhotra or other big stylists.
00:33:03
Speaker
You will sit with them and ask them for that extra X factor from their end. And then that begins the process of locking down costumes, locations. And then you sit down and lock everything for every scene because you want to kind of see the entire scene in its totality.
00:33:20
Speaker
So you kind of sit down after you've locked the entire film, pick one one element for each scene, put it together, visualize that scene together. And once everyone's happy, park it, move on to the next scene.
00:33:32
Speaker
And then that process continues till you finish the entire movie. Oh, wow. yeah And the when do you go through the script with the actors in the pre-production? You start everywhere. Yeah, like from day one.
00:33:44
Speaker
The minute the actors on ah are on board, you start reading with them. ah You start kind of ideating, discussing. Also, a lot of discussion with the actors is also about knowing them.
00:33:55
Speaker
Specifically when you're new, right? So, like when I was reading with, let's say, Varun Dhawan Alia Bhatt for my first movie… It was getting to know them as people. They're getting to know me as a person.
00:34:06
Speaker
How we are going to gel. What's my process of trying to make this movie. Of course, when we made the second film, we could skip that process because we were already comfortable with each other. So, a lot of that. But you're constantly discussing the script with everyone.
00:34:20
Speaker
ah In my case, specifically, I keep narrating it to my different teams so that they are also, they can hear my vision and know exactly what the so-called twang is going to be of the body.
00:34:35
Speaker
The script would also get polished further, I guess, during these reading sessions. Absolutely. So many suggestions come in. Everyone comes in with their own suggestions. Some are good, some are bad. You kind of experiment with most of it.
00:34:46
Speaker
So I would say, but and I'm taking the case of a well-written script. So a well-written script, from the time it gets approved till the time it gets to shooting, almost has a 20% change in it right If it's not a well-written script in the first place, then it could have been changed 50% well.
00:35:08
Speaker
Okay. And does it keep changing once you're shooting? or like Always, always. Because you know you reach a location sometimes and your actors have come with you. And sometimes the location gives you something, right? Like you're by the lake.
00:35:23
Speaker
Suddenly you see a crocodile in the water and the actor feels like improvising something. and you kind of And you like it as a writer-director. You're like, hey, I don't mind using this.
00:35:34
Speaker
And sometimes the location... ah and the feel of the place tells you like, you know what? Though I'd written the scene as a comedy, I feel I don't want to make people laugh here.
00:35:46
Speaker
Let them have a somber moment. So you're constantly adapting. You're constantly kind of ah visualizing your film as you keep shooting and then seeing it in a flow. But you need to be open to this 20% of improvisations, letting instinct kick in because ultimately movies is an instinct business, right?
00:36:06
Speaker
Which story is going to connect with whom nobody has any guarantee. So you kind of go with an instinct. So you're going to constantly nurture that instinct and trust that instinct even in these moments. They do go off as well. There have been times I've shot something, instinctively come back and say, dude, wrong call.
00:36:23
Speaker
Need to reshoot this. So it happens. Okay. So ah how long is this process of recording, shooting? Again, depends.
00:36:34
Speaker
ah Average film would be any... any a good A decent budget film will be roughly between 45 to 65 days. Action films can go on for 120 more.
00:36:46
Speaker
There are films which have gone on for 200 days plus. And then there are certain films which are at a tight budget, high concept. They've been shot in like 20 to 30 days as well. But I would say a good average time would be in the region of 50 to 65 days.
00:37:02
Speaker
and So, these are like 60 packed days, no breaks? These are shooting days. No, there are many breaks. It depends. Again, I might be at an outdoor location, let's say shooting in Chandigarh.
00:37:13
Speaker
Then I'll just shoot like 40 days in a row which will have… Not 40, about say 35 days in a row which will have 30 shooting days and 5 break days. But then sometimes I'm shooting in lot of breaks.
00:37:26
Speaker
So like for example, when I was shooting Sunny Sanskari, which is my next film, I was also going through a health challenge. So I was literally shooting like 15 days of break for a month and a half. Then shooting 15 days, another break for a month and a half.
00:37:39
Speaker
So literally my first day of shoot and my last day of shoot, I've shot the film for only 64 days. But it's taken me over a year to shoot that.
00:37:49
Speaker
Okay. so So it just works differently.
Project-Based Work in Bollywood
00:37:52
Speaker
what What do the… Like, if you're on a break for a month, what does the rest of the team do in that break? Like, they work on multiple projects, typically? people So, some HODs are working on multiple projects. My assisting team probably is not.
00:38:06
Speaker
But then most other teams… Because most other teams are freelancers, right? So, some are… Some might be working on other projects part-time. Some might be involved in two projects right from the beginning.
00:38:18
Speaker
I mean, there are multiple different ways to do it. Okay. ah ah Typically, like when you go to a production house, ah they don't give you a team. They help you find freelancers who will work. That's how it works normally? like Yes. most of the Normally, it's the director who takes who takes the call.
00:38:38
Speaker
ah Because different directors can have different choices. So typically a production house will not be hiring anyone and keeping full time on their payroll. It's project to project, film to film. Because every film has its own requirement.
00:38:51
Speaker
So they will pretty well ask the director like, hey, why don't you build your team? Who are the people you want to work with? And then just take it on from there. It's a very nomadic lifestyle in Bollywood, basically. You live from project to project.
00:39:06
Speaker
in In pretty much most cases, yes. And unless you are involved in like the company level workings, like you're part of the production house and you're in-house, you're on a salary density differently.
00:39:18
Speaker
But otherwise, most other HODs and technicians are contract workers for that project. They finish it, they move on to the next one. ah Is there a difference between a production house and a studio?
00:39:31
Speaker
like ah Typically, yes. A studio would probably be the final step of the person also putting in the money. A production house is someone who is primarily executing the whole film.
00:39:43
Speaker
They can be doing it without putting in their own money as well. So, for example, a Jashraj is a studio along with a production house as well. So, they fund their own movies and they...
00:39:55
Speaker
Typically, at Dharma Productions, they have external studios and finances as well. So when Dharma partners with, let's say, a Fox Entertainment or Star or Jio, it's basically Jio is serving the studio and they are putting in their money and Dharma is the production house who is executing the film.
00:40:13
Speaker
Now, there are multiple combinations to that. It can be 50-50 as well. It can be 100 and 0 as well. It can be... ah It's a completely commissioned script. So, multiple combinations work.
00:40:26
Speaker
But typically, that's the difference between a studio and the production house. Who's taking the risk? ah Like if the film is a flop, who is taking the risk? It's a multiple risk. ah Some of the risk is taken by the studio.
00:40:41
Speaker
Obviously, they're putting in the money. yeah Some of it is taken by the production house as well. Because okay typically, the let's say a project is approved for say, 10 million dollars.
00:40:53
Speaker
Typically, you're not getting all the $10 million dollars in your account in one go. You're getting it at different slabs. So then there are certain slabs which are withheld, keeping in mind that you have also agreed to take some kind of the risk, some form of the risk.
00:41:06
Speaker
So there are multiple aspects like that. But then there is perpetuity, IP rights which come into existence. So there are multiple ways to balance out risk as well. What are the rights associated with the film?
00:41:23
Speaker
You have the story rights. Then you have the film rights. Story rights typically. Just go a little deeper in each also. So if you own the story rights, what does that give you? Like ah you can sell it for a remake?
00:41:35
Speaker
I can sell it for a remake. So typically what happens is when I take a story right, ah any producer or studio, whichever is the final thing, will acquire the right from the writer. right So they will buy out the right from the writer 100% to own the right.
00:41:50
Speaker
If it's a very, very prominent, big writer, that writer will hold but some percent of the equity with them and not sell 100% so that when there are extra sales and stuff, they also get some benefit out of it.
00:42:04
Speaker
Then typically the production house, when it does a studio deal, it transfers 50% of that ownership to the studio and retains 50%. So then you have the music company which comes in.
00:42:16
Speaker
When a music company buys music, they retain 50% of the music rights and give the rest 50% to the production house slash studio. So different people find different combinations ah in terms of rights.
00:42:28
Speaker
And then there are different layers to the rights of the story as well. One can be a 100% ownership right. One can be saying that, hey, we have split the rights, but the right to remake is mine. You don't get the right to remake.
00:42:42
Speaker
then it can be that, okay, you have the remake, right? But rights of other languages. So every IP is divided into multiple segments, different languages, different territories, different remakes, prequels, sequels.
00:42:58
Speaker
So all those things are typically put into your agreement document, depend on what the agreement is. And everything has the opportunity to be monetized.
00:43:11
Speaker
how How is the story right monetized? Like based on the box office collection, some percentage. No. So for example, a writer writer could be on a deal of saying a straight buying in. So he's saying, okay, I have no ah profit or loss to share over here.
00:43:27
Speaker
I've already sold my story. They have taken the risk upfront. If I have a writer who has struck a deal saying that, you know, this is good, but I want 5% in profits as well. So they could probably get, even and when it comes to profit and monetization, there are different cycles, which we call.
00:43:43
Speaker
So for example, when you do a theatrical release and the first sale to an OTT, that's called the first cycle of monetization.
OTT Platforms and Film Revenue
00:43:50
Speaker
Then after that comes the second cycle of monetization, say about five, seven years later, when you're reselling these rights.
00:43:57
Speaker
so So then when you're doing ah your negotiations, you need to be aware of this because either you will do a cycle deal or you will do like a deal till perpetuity.
00:44:08
Speaker
how Then there are clauses in terms of what happens to these rights in case I am no more in the world. How does it get transferred to my k next of kin or my production house?
00:44:19
Speaker
So there are multiple different things that come into the rights of movie making business. ah Typically, when an OTT is buying a movie, they're buying it for a fixed period, like a five-year period or something. So, it depends. If they're commission commissioning the project from scratch, like OTTs have multiple aspects.
00:44:38
Speaker
OTTs do something called originals, which is movies or shows commissioned by them. So there they own everything, 100%. hundred percent And then they have something called acquisition, which is whereby I'm making a film and they're acquiring the rights.
00:44:52
Speaker
So typically in that, they have only licensing and sub-licensing rights. They don't own the project. So they would be typically owning it for a period of either seven years or 10 years.
00:45:03
Speaker
And nowadays, sometimes the cycles are smaller as well. Depending on the deal they have struck with the production house, it could be a three-year deal as well. Okay. Okay. So how is the revenue calculated? Like they say that this ah movie crossed 100 crores in collections.
00:45:21
Speaker
What does that mean? Does that mean the price of tickets sold ah across the globe was more than 100 crores? Is that what is being tracked? Yeah. So in in principle, you have multiple revenue structure, words, gross revenue, net revenue.
00:45:36
Speaker
What gross revenue basically means is just the value of tickets sold. right So, if tickets are sold for 300 crores, that's gross revenue. Net revenue would… every cinema hall is reporting how much sale they did. So, typically what we are reporting in Indian box office is net revenue.
00:45:53
Speaker
We don't ah do gross revenue. We do net revenue because we calculate from the perspective of what the… oh Cinema is paying for the… Yeah, cinema is what the producer is going to get.
00:46:07
Speaker
So, in terms of that. So, that is how we calculate net revenue. In typically what happens in the first week of business, whatever is the ticket sale, 45% goes to the theater owner, 55% comes to the producer.
00:46:23
Speaker
From the second week onwards, 50% goes to the… ah cinema hold-up, 50% comes to the producer. So, typically when we say 100 crore gross, and I'm not even talking about other taxes, 50% has typically gone to the cinema hall, 50% for the producer.
00:46:40
Speaker
Okay. okay Okay. So, that's how it works. So, typically when they say this film made 100 crores, that means it made 100 crores for the cinema hall and the producer. It depends if it's a net, it's reported as net collection or gross collection.
00:46:53
Speaker
If it's net collection, then they're talking about the money the producer bought. The producer. Okay. Okay. Okay. So this is one revenue, the revenue you're getting from cinema halls. And this is like completely transparent or is there like under-reporting and like, like is this a smooth system or? now Now it's very smooth because now pretty much everything is online.
00:47:12
Speaker
So even if any kind of undercutting or spillage is happening, it would be in 1% or 2%, not more than that. Otherwise, it's largely very accurate.
00:47:22
Speaker
Okay. oh this is one. One is, of course, theatrical revenue sources. Then from a producer's perspective, the revenue sources, if an OTT platform buys the film. So, those are big monies to be made.
00:47:34
Speaker
Then you have satellite revenue, which is the TV channels buying it. What do OTTs pay? like say Again, depends. so Project to project. Like if a film does 100 crore theatrical release revenue, net revenue...
00:47:48
Speaker
what You can't equate it. Like, for example, there's a film called Chava, which is released. It did a box office for 400 crores. But the subsequent sale to OTT is not going to be in that proportion.
00:48:01
Speaker
And then similarly, you could have a film which is done only 90 crores. But the OTT sales are of a certain level. So also how OTT... They were pre-deals. Pre-deals. Okay. Yeah. So they didn't know how well this film Yeah. But they also, what everyone does is they put a certain kicker onto your thing when you're negotiating.
00:48:19
Speaker
So we bought it at this price, but this is a minimum box so o box office we expect. If you do more, they might give you more. If you do less, they might cut a little bit.
00:48:32
Speaker
But more or less, we know the averages. But give me some numbers here. like Is it like 10 crores or 50 crores or 100 crores? And depends on the movie, of course. A Ranbir Kapoor film with, say, a Sandeep Vanga directing it can go for 130 crores as well.
00:48:50
Speaker
I mean, there is there is no there are multiple things involved. Who is the actor? Who is the director? Which language? What is the scope of delivery? What's the genre of the movie? Is it one of those big love stories slash romances? Is it an action film? Is it a concept film?
00:49:06
Speaker
So too many matrix to uniform it, unify it. But everyone who operates in that genre kind of knows his range. What's the rom-com range?
00:49:19
Speaker
Rom-com, depending on an actor, ah varies from, say, 25 crores from an OTT purchase, upwards of 90 crores as well.
00:49:30
Speaker
Okay. Depending on what the star cast, what's the music, who's the producer, multiple things. Okay. So, box office revenue, OTT revenue, what else? Box office revenue, OTT revenue, music revenue, music ah music companies come and buy your music. They give you an upfront amount.
00:49:50
Speaker
And later on, as they continue to sell the music and monetize on it, you also get some percentage back year on year as well for the music you own. So, the music is a revenue.
00:50:01
Speaker
Now, YouTube has... Music monetization is YouTube and Spotify or... like ah not now Now there is no physical. So there are different aspects. Ringtones still happen to be ah music, the kind of songs you hear.
00:50:16
Speaker
Then advertising, ah ah YouTube, the different streaming platforms. ah Music companies also monetize on everyone doing shows across the world.
00:50:27
Speaker
what music is being used and what ad. So there are multiple ways for them to monetize as well. ah When it comes to film also, we have brand monetization. Certain brands want to put their products in our movies.
00:50:40
Speaker
That becomes a monetizing exercise as well. so But your major monetizing sources are all still OTT platforms, music platforms, theatrical revenue, and the last of it would be satellites.
00:50:54
Speaker
sadly Satellite like the regular channels. Satellite like your channels. But the satellite revenues have dropped drastically because it's typically the satellite guys who own the OTTs.
00:51:06
Speaker
Right.
Marketing and Piracy Challenges
00:51:07
Speaker
so So it's compensated one way or the other. the ah in the The product placement in the movie, how much revenue does that give? It completely depends. Sometimes it's in lakhs. Sometimes it's a barter deal. So sometimes what they say is you put the deal.
00:51:24
Speaker
We won't give you cash up front. We will advertise the film for you. So it could be barter. Depending on how cool the product placement is, it could be a massive amount as well. So let's say, for example, when you do a film like, let's say, The Transporter.
00:51:38
Speaker
The transporter highlights the car segment. It could be a Mercedes. So, it's an absolute match for them. So, then the prices could be anything. Okay.
00:51:49
Speaker
ah So, it completely depends on how well you match it. What kind of commitment do you give them? Okay. So, coming back to the process. So, you... finished recording over a 60-day period, then what happens next?
00:52:00
Speaker
Then you begin with the post-production process of the movie, which is basically typically editing. The music also happens while recording? Or when does the music happen? It's happening through ah all the time. so So, the songs are being made before you start shooting.
00:52:12
Speaker
Then you're shooting on the songs. And then the process of finalizing is happening, right? Okay, yeah. You need to shoot on the songs. So, they have to be ready advance. They have to be pre-recorded. Until and unless you're doing like a live singing performance. But that's very rare in Bollywood.
00:52:26
Speaker
ah then you get down to the post-production process, which is editing, sound designing. so the most of the time initially spent editing the film, getting the film edit correct.
00:52:37
Speaker
Then the different processes kick in of sound designing, background score being made. or There's a process called DI, which is color correction. Then there is VFX, which is ah cleaning the frames, adding whatever you want on a VFX level.
00:52:53
Speaker
From a sound perspective, you have something called Folly which basically means If a foot is walking The sound of the foot being put So that the whole film goes through that Every aspect of it is put in And then all these different files Are come together on a mixer And then you mix it to kind of Hear the film together watch the So visually you have one aspect taking place.
00:53:19
Speaker
Sound-wise, audio-wise, you have one by aspect taking place. And then you bring the two of them together and you match both the prints and see it together. And that is typically when your film print is ready for delivery.
00:53:32
Speaker
all visit Who's the department who's doing this? This is the production department. This is different, all different departments. So there is the post-production team oh looks the ah looks at it overall, but the sound is doing sound.
00:53:46
Speaker
Background score is a different artist. Editing is a different artist. He's doing his bit. DI color correction are different artists working on their self. VFX is a completely different department.
00:53:58
Speaker
But so all these files are come under one single time code. So whenever you shoot something, Every clip has a time code. So whenever you're working, all these time codes are shared with everybody.
00:54:11
Speaker
So all the details are available for them to fetch. So everyone knows which time code file they are working on just so to ensure that the sync is the same for everyone. Okay.
00:54:22
Speaker
Got it. ah So what's the role of a producer in all of this? Like typically in the casting of the movie, there's a director, writer. Producer begins right from the beginning.
00:54:34
Speaker
First is getting in sync with the vision. Because first of all, this film should be something he's aspiring to produce as well. So, right? Just understanding understanding the scale of it.
00:54:45
Speaker
Then based on that, you will kind of finalize the budget of the movie. And then you're like, oh, you know what? I think typically I need... a 10 million dollars to make this movie. So then he's like, you know what, if you need 10 million dollars to make this movie, we need to get an actor of this stature to be able to say yes to the movie so that we can start monetizing it and safeguard ourselves as much as we can.
00:55:08
Speaker
So then he will probably set up the meeting with that actor for either narrating it or him to learn read it. So that process begins. So a casting process would be very, very democratic and kind of mutual consent.
00:55:21
Speaker
Most of the times they'll kind of go with the director's vision, but in a couple of places where they feel that, you know what, I think you're looking at it from a wrong perspective. If you think like this, we can have a bigger cast.
00:55:33
Speaker
So those kinds of conversations always keep going. So, so it begins with that. It, it can go as far as the producer saying that what are the locations you are thinking? Hey,
00:55:43
Speaker
I know in the film you have written Maldives, but would you think you can shoot this film in London? I'm like, but why? What are the pros and cons? He's like, hey, instead of London, we can go to Scotland, but I might get a rebate over there.
00:55:58
Speaker
The rebate helps me subsidize the movie. So the producer will come and Try and offer you everything, but still try and make the film at the best available cost. Then we'll be striking all the deals with the OTTs, music companies, different departments, brands, doing that.
00:56:15
Speaker
Then the producers' role extends to getting the correct exhibition and distribution. So even which theater the film releases and in which city is a proper strategic decision.
00:56:27
Speaker
So like a film like Sunny Sanskari ki Tulsi Kumari, should it release in this city in the south of India? Should it release in this city in the north of India? should it All those are planned decisions. All the theaters are a planned decision. Number of shows are planned.
00:56:43
Speaker
So that is also typically what a producer does with the distribution team. Just kind of engages in conversation. Sometimes two films are releasing on the same week. So then all different teams are trying to get the best shows for their respective movies, right?
00:56:58
Speaker
So that that becomes the role of the producer. Then to ensure that the marketing is correct, the marketing kind of gives you a window into the movie of the film. So all of this is headed by him.
00:57:10
Speaker
Okay. So he's like the dealmaker and like the chief people officer in a way. like He's everything. He's the dealmaker, cheap chief marketing officer, ensuring everything is good on on track, in order.
00:57:25
Speaker
He's also like a crisis manager. If some things are not working out, how do we turn these things around? All of that. So often I see actors credited as producers. So actors actually like roll up their sleeves and do all of this?
00:57:38
Speaker
So it depends who the actors are and what the role is. Sometimes there are companies involved in all the levels. Sometimes ah actors are involved as producers because they don't take their fame. So for example, let's say their market value is about $10 million. dollars They're like, hey, I won't take $10 million. It'll load the film too much.
00:58:00
Speaker
I'll take only $2 million dollars to start with, but I'll take dismissed percentage in profit. So that typically happens in two cases. One is the actor wants to get this film made.
00:58:12
Speaker
Or the actor loves the script but knows that if he comes in with his full amount, it'll be very, very tough for the producer to make it. So in those case, they become producers. Okay.
00:58:24
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Got it. ah This profit share, who all are linked with profit share? The director, script writer, does he also get a profit share?
00:58:36
Speaker
Again, depending on what stature and level they are at. Probably as a director, I wouldn't have got it in my first two, three films. After that, I continue to get profits as well, equity as well, oh profitable perpetuity as well, my own production deals and opportunities, all of it.
00:58:56
Speaker
What do you mean by equity? Equity means you have some some share in the rights. Some share in the rights. Like I would either be depending on which project, 10%, 20%, 30% partner and that's still perpetuating Okay.
00:59:09
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So then till the time this money, film is making money, either me or my family will continue to make money on it. So actors sometimes take profit share. Directors also with stagehers get profit share.
00:59:24
Speaker
The rest of the team, they they would typically be a paid per project kind of a thing. They would be paid per project. Some of them are paid per day. Some of them are paid per month. And typically if a film does very well, you also kind of announce a bonus for them.
00:59:37
Speaker
So they would get some kind of bonus as well. What's the total cost of making a film? ah like i know It can go from anything to any way. I mean, the cheapest films… What's the people cost?
00:59:52
Speaker
ah The cheapest movie has been made at 3-4 crores as well, which is less than a million dollars. And then the most expensive film must have been about 500 crores. So, that is, I mean, what, about 90 million dollars, 100 million dollars. It could be anything.
01:00:08
Speaker
So, dip again. Genre. What's the genre of the film? What's the star cast of the film? Let's stick to rom-com only. Like, in rom-com, what's… Even rom-coms. Rom-coms are… Dom-coms have been made in 20 crores as well And they've gone upwards of 150 crores as well So there's no range There's always ah Typically what a producer will try and do is He'll anticipate the recovery of the movie And then say that, you know what If that's my recovery, i also need to put in so much So that it looks like a value for money product Right? So if I want to make a big film with this actor I need to kind of put this much into it
01:00:46
Speaker
So you're you're done with post-production. You have mixed it together. You have the final film. What next after that?
01:00:55
Speaker
The different departments of distribution, exhibition, marketing will see the movie. They'll start formulating strategies in terms of how to market the movie. What are the points which we got attracted by? What the points we thought, hey at the script level, this was different, but this is different.
01:01:11
Speaker
But they'll typically start building their strategies of how to promote the movie. The exhibit distributor, ah distribution department will start looking at, you know what, this film is really going to do well in, say, north of India or ah west of India in Gujarat and Maharashtra.
01:01:28
Speaker
So they'll say, let's focus on these areas with our maximum screens. and rest. So all the strategy building begins and then you start looking at your best release date. When do I want to come out with this movie?
01:01:39
Speaker
What's the best release date which can give me the most opportunity to kind of show the film to maximum people and monetize. So those strategies start coming into being. Then Trailers start getting cut Teasers start getting cut Different units start getting cut So that we can create enough material You have a photo shoot with the actors So posters start getting made So all of this start begins to How do you start teasing the market How do you start exciting the market So that people come and watch your film on day one ah This marketing is ah like a team within the production house or a team within the studio?
01:02:14
Speaker
Multiple things. ah Some production house have their in-house team. Some people rely on agencies ah to do it as a one-off project. So that they show the film, the agency is given a cost and the agency has to deliver.
01:02:29
Speaker
Some companies have in-house departments. Okay. And... What is the spend like? Is it correlated like a film which costs 40 crores to produce will spend person's payback? I would say the rough rough rough idea of marketing would be anything between 2 crores to 20 crores is spent based on the budget and the actors of the film.
01:02:52
Speaker
And sometimes it's ironic because sometimes a really big budget film does not require too much money because there is enough anticipation of that movie anyways. right because So they don't really need to really yeah theyt need to push it.
01:03:07
Speaker
Okay. Are there like more new age marketing strategies which you have seen now? Like more ah you know social media first, like actors doing it on their own and stuff like that?
01:03:21
Speaker
It's ever evolving. People keep trying new things. There was a time when people never did anything. Then they started going for something called city tours. So actors are going from city to city, meeting people, talking about their movie, doing events.
01:03:34
Speaker
Then recently you had a film like Sayara, which released in India, where the actors, no one went out anywhere. They were just trailers. And the director did some interviews and that's it. So I think people are still trying new things, evolving.
01:03:47
Speaker
Of course, everyone's trying to use social media more because that's where the maximum penetration and reach is. And we are all kind of hooked on to it. So I think there's been a dramatic shift from print and ah satellite media to digital media.
01:04:02
Speaker
And again, based on the media, there are certain ideas which keep changing. So ah what all have you done for ah marketing, Sunny Sansarit? I mean, some of it is very straightforward, of course, trailers, teasers, song units, ah collabs. ah One of the interesting collabs we did for our film was we did a collab with a musician called Guru Randhava for a song.
01:04:25
Speaker
ah Just trying to attract the market. ah We did a lot of collabs with very interesting singers who are very popular on social media. ah We kind of saw our film and said, you know, this is one of those mass entertainers and it can have penetration in north of India.
01:04:41
Speaker
So we approached someone called Mr. Khesarilal, who is a very big Bhujpuri singer-actor. He sung a song with us. We went to someone called Masoom Sharma in...
01:04:51
Speaker
in Haryana who is very popular so we use the musical route we recreated an old Sonu Nigam song called Bijuria and we kind of got some nostalgia going with Guru Randhava we went really Gen Z cool so we are trying our bits to kind of be relevant ah the actors are doing their bit in terms of some interviews, some appearances.
01:05:13
Speaker
But we have not gone too over the top. We've kind of relied on our material, the film itself to kind of speak for itself and let the people gauge the merits of ah the movie through these trailers itself.
01:05:27
Speaker
And do you have an OTT deal for this? Yeah, we had a pre-deal. It's going to come out on Netflix. Okay, okay. so okay So, I think we've covered the full cycle of a typical Bollywood movie, right?
01:05:41
Speaker
From ah the ah distribution in cinema, the exhibition, what does exhibition mean here? Exhibition means the movie theaters will show the movie.
01:05:52
Speaker
So, a PVR, Inox and the different other brands that exist. So, that's the exhibit exhibition. So, typically, a distributor will work in tandem with the exhibitor. but Because an exhibitor also wants more and more people to come into his theater.
01:06:05
Speaker
One is for the sales of tickets. And that is for the sales of... in Typically in India, the canteen, the cafeteria, also big sales. so So they work in tandem trying to give the best shows to these people so that they can have the maximum people attending.
01:06:22
Speaker
So who's a distributor here? but What's his role? So the distributor distributor is the link between the exhibitor and the producer. So he's the guy who sees, he's the one who knows theatres inside out.
01:06:34
Speaker
Typically a good distributor knows the pulse of the country very well. So he knows, for example, after seeing the film, hey, this is a film which is going to do very well in north of India.
01:06:46
Speaker
Or this film I think can do very well in Gujarat. Or you know that. So he has a pulse. Plus he has relationship with exhibitors, whereby using his relationship, he can push for that one extra show.
01:06:58
Speaker
He can push for the best prime time for you guys. So, it' he is basically that puzzle who ensures maximum visibility of your film in theaters.
01:07:10
Speaker
Are exhibitors largely organized or largely unorganized? Like organized would be like say PVR is obviously organized, but what percentage of the market is? Most exhibitors are organized now. Even the small center ones are organized because everything has primarily become digital.
01:07:30
Speaker
So even in terms of your movie showcasing, there are no more prints being made. Everything is a file called a DCP file. It's basically a digital file. So because that process has become digitized, most other things world across India have become digitized.
01:07:47
Speaker
So in principle, everyone's coming come in the so-called data gambit or ah professional gambit of operations because also from a technology standpoint of view because the top players in technology also want standardized products.
01:08:04
Speaker
They don't want to kind of keep you know losing out on ah different centers because of lack of quality. So pretty much everyone's in the zone. Okay.
01:08:15
Speaker
oh Is piracy still a problem? Like i remember growing up, ah piracy was such a massive problem. it It still is. It still is. In fact, so piracy has changed a lot, right? So today what happens is ah your audience sitting in a theater has a mobile camera on their phone.
01:08:37
Speaker
People are sometimes just shooting random things just to show I'm watching the film. So, they'll be watching, revealing one very important sequence in your movie saying, hey, watching Sunny Sanskari ki Tulsi Kumari.
01:08:51
Speaker
Now, it's a fan and watching a movie, but principally causing piracy. But is there a problem if people are recording snippets while sitting in the cinema? Well, youre yeah I mean, they can be giving out a very important moment and kind of putting it out like,
01:09:10
Speaker
Like I was watching Sayara, for example. I didn't watch Sayara on a Friday. i was traveling. I watched it on a Monday. But before Monday, i pretty much knew... Everything that happened in that place. Just thanks to everyone showing it around.
01:09:25
Speaker
And of course, then the traditional piracy is also an issue. People still are coming. But of course, with it becoming digital, now there is easier ways to flag them off and control them. But they are still a problem.
01:09:38
Speaker
Maybe not as big. ah Also, with everything becoming digital, movies coming into your homes very fast, I don't think so. It's much of an issue anymore.
01:09:49
Speaker
But it is still there. It's definitely a nuisance value. OK. So ah when you are making something for OTT, which doesn't get a theatrical release, does the process change?
01:10:00
Speaker
I mean, ah obviously, the exhibited distributor part of it will not be there. But other than that, what is the other So principally, even within an OTT platform, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. The OTT, each show has its own objective or ah each film that you make.
01:10:17
Speaker
One is the OTT can come to you and say, we need something for our platform, which brings the family together. And now that content is very different. I could be pitching them an adult content, which is also going to give them numbers, but they are typically looking at those from the perspective that people are going to watch it separately in the laptop on their own.
01:10:40
Speaker
They're not going to be switching on sitting with family. So again, depending on what they want, what you are kind of offering, ah OTT has its own rules for that. It has its own kind of mindset of how do we approve this? What kind of a budget do we make it on?
01:10:57
Speaker
All of that. So if they kind of see a show thinking, hey, this show has the power to bring families into the living room, then they'll kind of typically overspend on that.
01:11:09
Speaker
ah And then if they feel like this seems like a very interesting idea, but I think a son might be a bit embarrassed to watch this in front of his father, maybe not nudity, maybe just abusive language or content, which is disturbing.
01:11:24
Speaker
So then they'll kind of produce it in that particular order. So again, it's depending on what the end goal is.
Financing and Filmmaking Philosophy
01:11:31
Speaker
Is there, you know, but when it comes to financing a film, um,
01:11:37
Speaker
Does it have to come from the studio or are there like, say, but when I compare with a startup, you have these VCs who will ah invest in a startup and take that bet. So are there like people who...
01:11:50
Speaker
finance movies purely as a financial investor. Yeah, yeah. There are many, there are many sources of financing. There are banks, there are VCs, there are individual financers.
01:12:01
Speaker
Some coming in, come in on a percentage basis saying, hey, we're just loaning you the money. Some coming on a finance basis by saying, we're not loaning you this money. But whatever recovery starts, first starts with us.
01:12:14
Speaker
with the percentage of profit added and then whatever the leftover is you can start taking it. So those are models. Then there are individual finances where like I just want to enter the industry. I don't mind taking a risk on a project.
01:12:27
Speaker
I will typically act as a producer but not get the brand of a producer but just get the brand of a financier. Right. So different things are available.
01:12:39
Speaker
ah And there is no correct route to it. I mean, whatever works well for your company, whatever works correctly for you. Now, with everyone looking to kind of diversify their portfolios, there lot of interest from different VCs across the globe, actually, to kind of try and see, hey, how can we enter the Bollywood market, get our foot in the door and see how we can explore it.
01:13:04
Speaker
ah I do believe that people have been trying this for like... decade-plus experiments in terms of looking at film investing as a financial asset, like purely for returns. But I don't think people have seen those kind of returns. Either they don't get the best films, or they don't have the knowledge. So what happens is, yeah, that is definitely the point that, first of all, you need to know what you're investing in.
01:13:29
Speaker
Secondly, oh this operates not necessarily from a share market viewpoint, right, of saying that, hey, even if I just invest in one film, I'm safe.
01:13:40
Speaker
Here, I always kind of talk about it and saying like, it's like me trying to enter the construction business. When I enter the construction business, I might put in and get in all the knowledge, but there are certain things I will learn only on the job.
01:13:54
Speaker
You know, I won't get my raw material at the same cost as an established builder. I won't get anything at the same cost. So if I make the same building as an established builder,
01:14:06
Speaker
I will still have a 15% premium or 20% premium or sometimes even a 50% premium I've paid on it because some people have decided to cheat me. Some people have decided saying, oh, this is a new guy. We can bully him.
01:14:19
Speaker
All those things are going to happen. Even when you get into the film financing business and lot of people approach me and say, Shashang, I'll give you this film, stuff like that. I always tell them, buddy, if you want to really invest in movies, you need to build a corpus for yourself so that that corpus can help you fund at least a minimum of five to seven films.
01:14:40
Speaker
And in five to seven films, your risk will get averaged out. right And then you can look at making money. If you would just make one bad investment, and typically as someone who is not from Bollywood, of the film industry, and he makes one bad investment, he will kind of tell 10 people, bro, Bollywood is not safe.
01:14:58
Speaker
I lost my money stuff. But you got to look at it as an industry and say, do I have the bandwidth to finance business? 5 films, 7 films.
01:15:08
Speaker
If I have the bandwidth, then let's enter. Because the chances are in that 7 films, 2 or 3 are going to hit home. And it will average out. And I will come out with some money, some experiences.
01:15:20
Speaker
Also, some, hopefully, some deals for perpetuity. So even if I don't make immediate money, I will keep making money for the rest of my life. Okay. So, in the West, most studios are like publicly listed entities and so on.
01:15:34
Speaker
Do you see India also like... while you There are many... Balaji is a listed company. You had UTV, which is a was a listed ah company.
01:15:50
Speaker
Then there is Panorama Films, which made films like... Drishyam, Shaitan, that's a listed company. So, you've had multiple private companies and listed companies in the business.
01:16:02
Speaker
So, that that's always going to remain. Do you see more Hollywoodization happening of Bollywood? In what sense? is Bollywood unique beast?
01:16:13
Speaker
like I think Bollywood is very unique. Professional management and you know things like that. You know, actually, ah the word professional management really is overrated in multiple industries, but definitely in Bollywood.
01:16:26
Speaker
We are such an instinct-driven industry and emotion industry. are The minute, sometimes when we talk about professionalism, the first thing what professionals, trained and professionals start doing is start building data points.
01:16:38
Speaker
And the day it gets into data points, you have removed all creativity from the movie business. So, at the risk of sounding... offensive to a business community.
01:16:49
Speaker
Sometimes you don't need that much professionalism in the industry. You need basic discipline and integrity. And that I think is a, uh, You know, cornerstone for everybody.
01:17:00
Speaker
Like basic discipline and integrity needs to exist. Sometimes professionalism is equated into almost making it like, a ah you know, the factory system of yeah just put it in a machine and it can re ah give me the same results again and again.
01:17:17
Speaker
And that's really bad for creative people. It's really bad for the industry. And I think a lot of the industry's challenges began with that. With the fact that people came in and said, hey, I saw this guy's film. I saw this guy's film.
01:17:30
Speaker
I learned what those methods were. I can write a script applying those things. And it's never going to work out that way, right? So a lot of the so-called bad times or tough times for the industry came around over there.
01:17:43
Speaker
So I don't see the need to it becoming more professional. I think what we need to definitely learn from is if we can...
Storytelling and Audience Engagement
01:17:52
Speaker
ah Reduce the cost of technology And introduce more technology Which can help the films Definitely But even in that sense You know We have had so many Jurassic Park movies being made There is no better film in the Jurassic Park universe than the first one which was made.
01:18:10
Speaker
The first one has touched lives of people more than anyone else. It had no animation. It had robotics and whatever jazz. It didn't have budgets, but it was still the most ah one which you can relate to. In fact, with the over...
01:18:27
Speaker
use of VFX and CG, I think they've just lost the plot. So I think everything needs to come in in a sense of balance and something which serves storytelling.
01:18:38
Speaker
It cannot become the replacement for storytelling. Your stories need to be at the forefront. Emotions need to be at the forefront. And then let's see what can help build it ah better. So this franchisee, like the Jurassic Park franchisee, similarly, you in a way have the Dullanya franchisee.
01:18:56
Speaker
ah How does that work? Is there a benefit of doing… ah Definitely it has a benefit. I mean, you already have an audience which is loyal. You've already had an audience which has sampled the films. They've seen it.
01:19:09
Speaker
If it's a similar universe, they're already coming in with some expectations, some background sorted. So, they're entering the film with already some love for the movie. So, you're not kind of rebuilding loyalty for that… movie slash franchise.
01:19:22
Speaker
So it definitely helps even from the perspective of monetization because OTT platforms will give you more money. Sound will give you, ah music will give you more money. Your revenues are guaranteed.
01:19:34
Speaker
it If executed well, it's a win-win for everyone. If not executed well, then it kind of shuts down the franchise. But it's definitely a value if you go in with the correct intent.
01:19:45
Speaker
Are you planning on another Duranya movie in the franchisee? ah We would love to... um The thing with, say, Varun, Alia, me and Karan is that we definitely want to do one.
01:19:57
Speaker
well But we don't... You know, the risk is we don't want to do it just for the monetization part. We want to only do it when we feel that we have a good story to tell and we can have fun with it.
01:20:09
Speaker
ah The Dulaniyas have been... very well loved for its simplicity of storytelling. They're rom-coms principally with a very small message if you want to take it home or not. But in principle, they're entertainers. They're good love stories.
01:20:21
Speaker
You can come, you can have fun, enjoy the characters. So if we feel that we find a story which helps us ah celebrate this uniqueness a little bit more, we would love to come together. But I can't answer on everyone's behalf.
01:20:34
Speaker
uh but that's where i'm at it that it needs to be a good story and i think uh everyone's lives need to a align we are not the same people we were 11 years back 11 years back none of us had kids and now all of us have kids so that's been the drastic change in our lives so we want to we want to come together if things align and definitely if we all have a good story to tell where do story ideas come from for you personally Oh, it can come from anywhere. I'm a very character-driven person. So I'm always kind of searching for interesting names, something unique about a character.
01:21:11
Speaker
Sometimes conflicts that you hear about trigger something and then you start fantasizing that and say, hey, if this happened in my life, what would I do? How would I react?
01:21:22
Speaker
And that's the advantage of being a storyteller that you can start penning it down and see, okay, does this idea warrant a screenplay? Do you think this can be developed into something more?
01:21:33
Speaker
and There are many times I've had exciting ideas, started writing it and realized after 30 pages that this is it. The story was meant to be written in only 40 pages. It can't be written into 120 pages.
01:21:45
Speaker
So you got to kind of keep being aware of that as well. And story can come from anyone, a person, a news article, a person walking on the street, a anything And the more I travel the world and specifically the more I travel within India, I realized that there are so many things you experience and see which you cannot put on the my on screen because people will never believe it's real.
01:22:12
Speaker
They'll be like, no, this is just far-fetched. This is too made up. And I mean, life is definitely more layered than fiction can ever be.
01:22:25
Speaker
Are you still able to experience Real India? Because now you're celebrity, right? People might be recognizing you. and so so do you still get to experience Real India?
Insights into Real India
01:22:37
Speaker
oh Well, my answer to that is that I believe I am also real India. So, but you know, i I often listen to this debate about saying what is real India.
01:22:50
Speaker
And I really think every component of India, people that exist are real India. They might be in minority in different numbers. A financial minority because of their exposure cannot be deemed as this is not real India because they are paying the maximum taxes as well.
01:23:06
Speaker
So if you are like going to disown them and saying you are not real India, then don't tax them. Right. so So for me, yes, you need to find your own way of experiencing life and continuing to experience life.
01:23:21
Speaker
Because ultimately, depending on what kind of a filmmaker you are, I'm the kind of filmmaker who likes to get mass participation. I'm trying to tell ah film for the lowest common denominator, if I can say it without using any other term or saying that, hey, I want my film to do equally well and North of India as much as I wanted to do it in West of India and South of India and East of India.
01:23:45
Speaker
And with that, you have to make certain compromises when it comes to the layers you put in a screenplay or a thing. But you are aware that this lack of layer gives it more reach.
01:23:56
Speaker
right But what is that layer that you are stripping off to know that you need to be in sync with India from everywhere? Like you need to travel, you need to continue traveling.
01:24:07
Speaker
You need to continue watching movies. You need to continue engaging with people and saying that, you know, what is it exciting them? So like recently what happened about two and a half years back, I started investing in a sports company.
01:24:23
Speaker
And I started playing pickleball as a sport and started building the sport of pickleball in India. Now, suddenly my life changed drastically. I started interacting with a completely different set of people, unique people, interesting people. Now, these guys knew me as a filmmaker.
01:24:40
Speaker
But now I'm interacting to them on a very human level discussing pickleball and I'm trying to understand what is it that excites them about life. Now that's given me a great window ah about saying sometimes when your life changes drastically, you start believing that the country has changed or the world around you has changed.
01:25:01
Speaker
But it gave me a great window into saying, you know what, things haven't changed as much as I think they have changed. You know, there are still certain challenges that continue to remain. There are certain things which still excite these people, which kind of also comforts you as a filmmaker because you're like you know what?
01:25:17
Speaker
I'm not thinking too off. Or sometimes it can shock you when you're like you know what? I was thinking we have moved on here, but we are still there. So you're constantly kind of facing that tug of war of emotions.
01:25:29
Speaker
And the more you can spend time with people, and all kinds of people hear them out, understand their stories, understand their challenges. I think you are again ah back to being that student who's trying to observe life, figure out what's happening in their lives and tell stories accordingly.
01:25:46
Speaker
and And in my case, I continue to tell stories as a filmmaker but now I'm building stories for pickleball like we have signed a few athletes I need to script their stories for glory I need to present them in a way now to present them I need to know their lives deeper what are their challenges how did they come till here What is this boy who lives in Jalga or this girl in Jalga doing with a pickleball paddle in her hand?
01:26:13
Speaker
Now that gives me an insight into India or her life. And similarly, what is this boy with a slight physical disadvantage? How is he managing to playing top level pickleball in India?
01:26:24
Speaker
So the more you are in sync with these people, or you keep talking to them and their lives come to you, you need to continue asking the questions as you did when you were a student of cinema or just a fan of cinema sitting and saying that, ahacki waa and ki like me what happened here?
01:26:41
Speaker
So as far as you're doing that, I think you will never lose perspective of real India. So... Let's say i go to a palace property in Rajasthan. Now, that's not necessarily a place which you de define.
01:26:55
Speaker
But if you can have a great conversation with the security guard there or the guys are serving you food there, talk to them, understand their life. Where are they from? What do they do? Why are they here?
01:27:07
Speaker
What are the stories of the palace? Is something fishy happened here? Are there ghosts here? You can still kind of derive a lot of understanding of where these people come from and what their lives are about.
01:27:18
Speaker
Okay, awesome. ah What exactly is the Pickleball venture?
The Rise of Pickleball in India
01:27:22
Speaker
Help me understand that. What are you building? ah So, pickleball as a sport, of course, has become a bit of a buzzword while world over.
01:27:29
Speaker
So, about three years back is the first time I played pickleball. And I had a bit of a history of junior international tennis. So, I naturally kind of picked up pickleball, really had fun playing it.
01:27:41
Speaker
And then I was like, this is going to be a big business in India. Why do you feel that? oh It's a game. ah we we are We are good TT players. We are good baddie players. We are good cricket players. We are good tennis players. So, the racket sport universe has already been set for us.
01:27:56
Speaker
Pickleball is very simple. Pickleball is played on a badminton-sized court, low neck, played with a plastic ball and a paddle. Easy to get into. Of course, it gets very complicated when you're playing at the highest pro level.
01:28:09
Speaker
Great community game. you can A husband, wife can play together. but Siblings can play together. 40-year-olds can play together. 50-year-olds can play. A 30-year-old and a 50-year-old can play together.
01:28:21
Speaker
So it's a great community build-up. And for a country like ours, which has a history of chatting on the below the buildings, going to nana nani parks across the world, sitting, talking, the community culture already exists.
01:28:36
Speaker
So it's about just giving it a new avenue. And that's what we are seeing. Like the growth of pickleball in India over the last... two years has just been exponential. So that's how I kind of connected to with a company called Global Sports, invested with them, became a partner in the company.
01:28:53
Speaker
And now we continue to build different IPs in pickleball, infrastructure projects in pickleball. And with a very, very concrete dream of one day seeing pickleball at the Olympics and hoping to see India win a lot of medals in that because this is a sport I i believe India can be very well-designed can be victorious in.
01:29:16
Speaker
What exactly is Global Sports doing? Like, how is it making money? What's the business model? ah We're not making money. We're only losing money as of now. Which in the startup language is like, we are creating value.
01:29:28
Speaker
But yeah, our idea is threefold. We want to create IPs. We want to create intellectual property, like leagues, tournaments, across. We want to then work with the...
01:29:40
Speaker
Like an IPL. We've already started our leagues. The Global Sports Pro and Challenger Leagues and tournaments are already very popular world over. Then we want to continue working with the government with the official pickleball bodies in India to kind of structure World Cups, Asia Cups, different events and really give it proper structure, try and get corporates in the game, try and really get funding in the game so athletes can make careers and then really focus on athletes to create world-class athletes in pickleball.
01:30:11
Speaker
This is a sport where men, women have great importance equally. It's one of those gender-neutral sports which are very exciting. So we really want to kind of push that aspect and see I still don't understand the business model. how what's the What's the source of revenue here? Is it sponsorship? but Registrations, sponsorships, broadcasting deals, a league franchise deals.
01:30:34
Speaker
So, your your revenues are the traditional revenue formats for sports. ah Certain innovations are ah when it comes to… social media, how you can use Instagram and other things to raise more revenue.
01:30:49
Speaker
The other on-ground revenue ideas is how big an event can you create because that allows for different stalls to come in and different people to come in and make it expert experiences. But principally for sport, always your bigger revenue models will be registration, sponsorships, league franchise owners, all of them.
01:31:09
Speaker
And of course, revenue from facilities as of now is a very big model. Till the time more and more revenues come in. Facilities? or like we we we We lease it out and we operate it.
01:31:21
Speaker
We don't own it. We lease it from the owners and we operate it. So across India... It's like Oyo Rooms kind of a model. So you'll take an asset, you'll brand it, you will run it. We'll brand it, we'll run it.
01:31:35
Speaker
And we have a minimum lease period till then. Yeah. So... How, ah like, how big could this be? what What do you see as, like... The spot? A revenue number would be a good way to help me understand because I'm from the world of business. but Correct. But how big do you see this could be?
01:31:54
Speaker
Oh, I mean, I'm trying to struggle to kind of give you a number which doesn't sound too optimistic. but But just to kind of give you numbers, already in the US, they are predicting it to be...
01:32:08
Speaker
oh a $20 billion dollars industry. industry i think I think in India, this is going to definitely be a $20 to $30 billion dollars industry.
01:32:19
Speaker
I think from our goals perspective, we are we are hoping and looking at hitting the thousand crore mark, hopefully by the end of next year or 2027 as a company.
01:32:33
Speaker
And so I think there is a there's a lot of potential. We are in fact, I would say just touched about 2% of pickleball right now in India. Once the government sanctioning is coming in its full flow, schools get active, more kids start playing.
01:32:49
Speaker
I mean, there is absolutely no stopping the spot. And ah Like what ah skills did you learn as a Bollywood director which are helping you build this business?
01:33:02
Speaker
ah One is the understanding of content, understanding of experience. ah When I'm creating a movie, I'm trying to create an experience for my audiences. Similarly, when we are curating our tournaments and leagues, we are looking to create experiences for the players and audiences who are coming in.
01:33:17
Speaker
And that's why global sports events are very unique. Because not only are the players enjoying themselves, but the people who are coming to watch are also having a great time. So principally, we'll select a venue which is fun.
01:33:29
Speaker
We'll build the best court. from ah From our company perspective, all our partners believe in the top infrastructure. we are very, very clear that nothing should be average. So we're creating venues like that. We're putting in stalls from food to gaming to beverages so that it really feeds the community.
01:33:48
Speaker
They can really kind of say that, hey, even if I'm not playing, I want to just hang at the venue from day to night and watch all the pickleball action, but meet my friends as well. So from a content perspective, that has really helped me Simple things like how do we present it aesthetically better when we are broadcasting?
01:34:07
Speaker
Where should the camera placements be? What are the color of the coats which are most attractive for viewership? All of those small, small bits add on to the whole and ensure that we are creating something of great value.
01:34:21
Speaker
Okay. Fascinating. ah Essentially, you see this like, say, you have these federations or like, say, the F1 is a body which is a revenue-making body. So, something like that, you see Global Sports becoming for Pickle. No, Global Sports doesn't want to be an association. We want to remain a private company.
01:34:42
Speaker
The association in India has already come up. come up We want to work in tandem with them. And we want to continue building ourselves as a private company. We don't necessarily want to be an association.
01:34:55
Speaker
Typically, you know, when sports get popular, um then the associations take over, right? like ah ah So, do you see that risk here?
01:35:07
Speaker
ah There's always risk attached in anything you do. I think the way we have been trying to build it is we want to have great relationships with the thing, ah with the association. But no association is ever going to be able to grow without the help of corporates, without the help of certain professional management.
01:35:27
Speaker
World over, there are very few associations or associations early so-called bodies which have built great sports events. right Most other sports get kind of its recognition only during the Olympics and then they kind of go away into hibernation for four years. We never hear of them.
01:35:48
Speaker
Only a few sports exist world over. And most of those sports which exist have had great support from franchise owners or corporates. right So if you talk about football across the world, it's the Franchise football which is very very popular The World Cup gets popular And the Euros get popular Similarly in cricket now It's the franchise Owners which are Keeping the top bracket Of cricket alive right Of course cricket is a far more mature sport in India So similarly We we come from a
01:36:22
Speaker
ah thought process of collaboration. I think with them having government affiliations and government backing and with us being able to provide a lot of professional knowledge, corporate knowledge, me coming from a field of movies, giving them so much understanding about, say, social media oh entertainment.
01:36:45
Speaker
I think this combination, if it comes to together, can be an absolute killer combination. It can really... oh ignite a lot of confidence in different stakeholders, people looking to invest and knowing that, hey, this conglomerate kind of fulfills all the ah needs that we had or all the verticals that we were thinking about.
01:37:09
Speaker
So that is where we are coming from and hopefully we'll be successful in that. Okay. um Let me end with this question.
Philosophy and the Future of Filmmaking
01:37:18
Speaker
ah Why are you successful? Is it luck or are there special skills which you developed?
01:37:24
Speaker
so ah So I'm a believer of karma. So as part of the belief of karma, one of the things is that I need to keep working on myself. So if I have reached here because of the certain opportunities provided to me, the certain ah things which went in my favor. I was born in good circumstances. i had the opportunity to educate myself a certain way.
01:37:46
Speaker
It's now my responsibility to keep working on that and ensure that I keep improving on it. So one of the aspects of believing in karma is to know that it is not guaranteed 100% and you need to work on it.
01:37:58
Speaker
So having said that, yes, so I need to keep, I keep working on myself. I'm someone who cannot sit idle. I keep trying to learn new things, whether it is in the movie business or now in the pickleball business, trying to understand, trying to reach out to people to understand what the market is about from a business standpoint of view, understand why OTT platforms are doing what they're doing, why production houses are doing.
01:38:24
Speaker
So I think the more knowledge you want to gather, it makes you ah far more adaptable. Also, it makes you a bit clever when it comes to decision making. So, I can be in a room and when it comes to a crunch decision, kind of try and take a decision which helps all of us.
01:38:41
Speaker
Or it kind of says that it gives us an advantage to both of us. right So, you're saying your secret power is this decision making, like taking good decisions.
01:38:52
Speaker
I think my secret power is… ah ah i I know myself very well and I have no false illusions about myself. And i'm not delusional about my I'm not delusional about myself. I'm self-aware.
01:39:06
Speaker
ah I do not go into a room thinking that I'm a very big Bollywood celebrity who or I should be treated a certain way. I go in looking to create value in my life and in the lives of people.
01:39:19
Speaker
So that's how I think. And I think that has been one of the reasons. ah um And also, I am not very success-driven. I'm very process-driven. I don't get too carried away by success or too bogged down by failure.
01:39:34
Speaker
I'm very process-driven, probably because of my training of sports all my life, because I've played sports since the age of three. uh, for me, my everyday process is very, very important.
01:39:47
Speaker
And sometimes if I complete that process, well, that in itself gives me a lot of joy. Like if I'm like, so for example, just to put it, like if I had a few things I wanted to say in this interview, and if I've said them out correctly and I feel I've expressed them well, I feel very happy about the day.
01:40:06
Speaker
And if I feel, Hey, I wish I could have spoken a few yeah So as I was saying, so as far as I, and and if there was something I had to say and I couldn't say it, then I just feel like, hey, wish I wish I could say that better.
01:40:19
Speaker
So i'm I'm kind of only looking at myself. I'm not kind of looking at others to for validation. And I think that really helps my decision making as well. I want to sneak in one last question. ah Sure.
01:40:32
Speaker
Do you love AI or hate ai Like as a filmmaker? Yeah. but No, I think it needs to be used effectively. I think as people, just generally, it doesn't matter which profession you are in.
01:40:42
Speaker
You cannot be against technology. You need to use it correctively. I am against AI which might oh threaten to lose jobs.
01:40:54
Speaker
oh but I think if they can be helped use, there's always going to be a shift in AI, right? There is going to be a time where I used to do X job, but I need to have a certain different skill set to learn Y job.
01:41:05
Speaker
But I think that transition needs to be given time so that the people who didn't have the skill sets, they can learn it. If the transition is done immediately, we will not have we have a vacuum of training people on this end and we'll have a lot of...
01:41:21
Speaker
unsatisfied people losing jobs at one end. So I think we need to just adapt it and in due course so that a set of people can be said that, listen, guys, you need to change, you need to adapt, you need to learn.
01:41:35
Speaker
Otherwise, you will be unemployed. So as far as they can kind of adapt and do that, I think we will have time to make the transition. like ad films are already being made using yeah AI.
01:41:48
Speaker
Complete ad film is being used, ah is being made using AI. Do you see in Bollywood movies, some AI scenes slipping in, which audience doesn't even realize that this was an AI scene?
01:42:02
Speaker
I mean, people will use AI from time to time as the technology offers for cheaper solutions. So I'm sure it's going to happen. Like Hollywood did it. Hollywood had a major issue, I think about two years back or a year and a half back. and They had multiple so-called strikes and they finally came to a solution about how much of it can be used and cannot.
01:42:23
Speaker
I think we'll also arrive at something like that from our perspective. Of course, ah you cannot live in an age where you resist technology. I mean... You and me are chatting right now because someone made this technology.
01:42:37
Speaker
ah Right. So I think it's foolish to kind of constantly say that we have too much of technology. In fact, if at all, the solution to world problems are going to be the correct use of technology.
01:42:49
Speaker
It cannot be the lack of it. Thank you so much for your time, Shashank. It was a real pleasure. Not at all. Thank you, Akshay. Thank you so much.