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From Kolkata Streets to US Millionaire: Raution Jaiswal's Inspiring Journey
51 Plays10 hours ago
In this episode, Raution Jaiswal reveals how he built InsuredMine from $40,000 in funding to $5 million ARR, competing against giants like Salesforce in the US insurance agency software market.
Starting as an immigrant founder with no insurance background, Raution bootstrapped his way through the brutal early days, moonlighting while building his first product, pivoting from a consumer app to B2B CRM, and eventually capturing 17 of the top 50 insurance agencies in America.
He shared the journey in this candid conversation with host Akshay Datt. Raution breaks down his "Trojan Horse" go-to-market strategy, positioning InsuredMine as a friendly add-on to legacy systems before becoming the central hub of agency operations. He discusses why modern product architecture is his secret weapon, how he's embracing AI to move from automation to prescriptive intelligence, and why he chose to return to India after 18 years in the US to run his American business and give back through his foundation. This is a masterclass in vertical SaaS, capital efficiency, and contrarian company building in a massive but overlooked market.
Key Highlights:
👉How Raution built InsuredMine to $5M ARR with only $40K in funding, competing against Salesforce and legacy insurance software giants
👉The "add-on" Trojan Horse strategy that helps InsuredMine infiltrate agencies and become their central operating system
👉Why modern product architecture is InsuredMine's biggest competitive moat against billion-dollar competitors with legacy tech debt
👉Raution's pivot from B2C insurance wallet app to B2B agency CRM, and how he validated the business with 50 paying customers before quitting his job
👉How InsuredMine is leveraging AI to move from generative features to predictive analytics to prescriptive recommendations for insurance agents
👉Why Raution moved back to India after 18 years in the US to run his American business and launch his foundation for underprivileged students
Chapters:
00:00 - Raution Jaiswal's InsuredMine Origin Story
01:20 - US vs India Insurance Industry Landscape
05:25 - How Insurance Distribution Works in America
10:26 - The Problem InsuredMine Solves for Agencies
14:24 - Building CRM for Insurance Agency Market
17:25 - InsuredMine vs Legacy Agency Management Systems
20:54 - Why VCs Chase InsuredMine Despite Bootstrapping
24:33 - The $40K to $5M ARR Journey
27:24 - Scaling InsuredMine Without Venture Capital
29:03 - Bootstrapping Secrets and Capital Efficiency Playbook
32:09 - Managing US Business from India Strategy
35:41 - Product Evolution from Automation to AI
37:06 - Building World-Class Support at Scale
40:38 - Running Global SaaS Company from Bangalore
42:10 - From Kolkata Streets to US Entrepreneur
47:59 - Paying It Forward Through Education Foundation
50:59 - Building Trust-Based Sales Without VC Money
52:38 - Product Roadmap and AI CRM Vision
56:03 - AI Agents vs Human Insurance Agents
#InsurtechStartup #BootstrappedStartup #VerticalSaaS #InsuranceAgencySoftware #InsuranceCRM #SaaS #StartupIndia #FounderStory #USInsuranceMarket #InsuranceTechnology #AIinInsurance #StartupBootstrapping #IndependentInsuranceAgents #PropertyCasualtyInsurance #SalesforceAlternative #AgencyManagementSystem #InsuranceDistribution #CapitalEfficiency #StartupJourney #B2BSaaS #InsuranceInnovation #StartupPodcast
Disclaimer: The views expressed are those of the speaker, not necessarily the channel
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Transcript
Growing Up and Entrepreneurial Beginnings
00:00:00
Speaker
One objective was we have to survive one more day. Is there something in your childhood that instilled this love for India in you? Whether it was state government, central government, local people, somebody gave me his house to live, to study, the street lamp under which I studied, other things. So there's a lot that has contributed to who I became. Roshan Jaiswal is the founder of InsuredMine, a CRM and workflow platform for US insurance agencies.
00:00:30
Speaker
InsuredMine is a bootstrap success story managing over $8 billion in insurance premiums. Roshan is also a philanthropist impacting lives of underprivileged children in West Bengal. What makes you so patriotic?
00:00:54
Speaker
Roshan, welcome to the Founder Thesis podcast. You are the founder of InsuredMind. it Which industry, I mean, okay, the name gives it away, but which industry are you serving? What exactly is the product?
00:01:08
Speaker
Hi, thanks for inviting me, Akshay. It's a privilege to be on your podcast.
Understanding InsuredMine and the Insurance Market
00:01:12
Speaker
um So InsuredMind is a vertical SaaS insured tech platform.
00:01:21
Speaker
we cater to independent insurance agency market, which is basically a distribution channel um as a CRM for these independent agencies to sell better, sell faster, and be able to engage and connect with their customers um but primarily in the U.S. market.
00:01:42
Speaker
If you want to buy a policy in India, you will either go to an agent or you'll go to Policy Bazaar one of these ah web platforms ah and buy your policy. How does it work in the US? s Absolutely. so So again, I think the concept of insurance is 300 to 400 years old. um Started in Lloyd's of London, you know, out there in London.
00:02:03
Speaker
So, but let's look at the core concept of insurance in US market and then we'll compare how it is different to India. In US, when you're looking at insurance, there is three primary segments. Health insurance, insurance,
00:02:17
Speaker
life insurance, and then third is the PNC, property and casualty insurance. You double-click PNC, it has personal insurance and commercial insurance.
00:02:30
Speaker
So our focus is primarily on the PNC, personal and commercial on the property and casualty side. Compare that to India, the most evolved aspect of insurance in India has primarily been the life insurance side.
00:02:47
Speaker
That's what we all typically know. um There is a potential and it's growing the PLC side, especially on the personal lines. You still do not have a deep penetration home insurance.
00:03:02
Speaker
Home insurance typically is bought by people in India today who is getting loaned for their house. Typically, you don't go and insure your house.
00:03:15
Speaker
And I tell everybody out here in India, guys, if you don't have a home insurance, please do go and get one. I am one of those beneficiaries in US. It's a wonderful story how my house, everything was kind of literally burned down in US, but I had an insurance which literally paid off for everything. And it was such a financial relief, even though, you know, you go through a the whole torturous process mentally, but you know at least you are financially safe. so
00:03:47
Speaker
So that thing is not there yet in India where houses are getting insured, businesses are getting insured to that level. So I think that penetration is there to be captured.
00:03:59
Speaker
And there is a huge
Navigating Challenges and Learning in the U.S.
00:04:00
Speaker
opportunity out there in that property and casualty space. Life insurance is... good I think also health insurance is catching up because of a lot of government intermediation in this of all the services that they are providing.
00:04:17
Speaker
ah Car insurance is in PNC only, right? which is Yes. it's yeah And car would also fall into both sides. so if you have a truck or lorry, it will be a commercial insurance.
00:04:28
Speaker
Whereas if you have your personal car, it will be a it will still be an auto insurance, but it's a personal insurance. and Okay. How is insurance sold in the US as compared to India?
00:04:41
Speaker
great Great question. um Insurance. So let's again focus on PNC first and then I'll talk about the other two. ah So in PNC, there's 40,000 independent insurance agencies, not agent agencies.
00:04:58
Speaker
And these agencies, each agency, seems because you can only sell insurance if you are licensed. um So these 40,000, I think probably there are 500,000 people selling insurance in that space.
00:05:12
Speaker
And then there is health insurance and um employee benefit also goes into that health insurance and other benefits. And then the third segment is on the... on the life insurance as well. So all of these primarily are sold through a distribution channel.
00:05:29
Speaker
So there are few insurance companies, for example, ah State Farm, Allstate, Farmers, now Farmers have kind of democratized.
00:05:40
Speaker
Allstate has also democratized where they are selling through distribution channel of these agents. But like on state farm, they have their own employee as agent who are selling the insurance.
00:05:55
Speaker
These are captive agents. Like LIC used to have at one point in time. Yeah. so But I don't know again in LIC, if you are selling LIC, you are not prohibited from selling other policy.
00:06:08
Speaker
Right. carriers or the insurance company selling it, this independent agent selling it. And the third is direct to consumer, which is selling through technology or any platform like Vibra is selling it or, you know, Lemonade juice is doing it. So there are a lot of platforms where you can just directly go and purchase.
00:06:31
Speaker
but Like Policy Bazaar. Policy Bazaar is doing. But then what is interesting in that is if you are selling through a platform, You know, you can only sell plain vanilla products.
00:06:46
Speaker
When the risk is complicated, selling that or underwriting that is not, it cannot be algorithm driven for them to assess the risk and quote you a premium.
00:06:58
Speaker
Hmm. So what's the problem ah that agencies face because of which you felt the need to build a software? How did you discover this problem space? And I know you're not from the industry. So which is like, I'm pretty curious on how someone who's not from the industry ended up building a vertical SaaS for this industry.
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting question. And I say this all the time that, you know, every odd you can think of was against me when you think of me as an entrepreneur and started a startup and bootstrapped and hustled my way to this point.
00:07:38
Speaker
First of all, being in the U.S. as an immigrant, starting a company is not easy. um obviously native language, you know, there is a language cultural barrier. So when you are pushing through, especially an industry, which is, you know, I should not say this. not and I'm in India. I can say this probably, you know, it's, it's all pale male, uh,
00:08:04
Speaker
A pale gay gray industry because, you know, it's the old school industry. It is run by the people in 50s and 60s who are a little bit more ah conservative in their thinking. So they are not looking for somebody to come and just
Product Development and CRM Integration
00:08:20
Speaker
disrupt the the space.
00:08:23
Speaker
So it's not easy to penetrate in that space. You are an immigrant and you do not understand insurance. So nothing is working in my favor. And then I push you to get this. But then there was this theory, if Elon Musk can learn about ah rocket science, I can learn insurance.
00:08:42
Speaker
Right. So again, and then he gets to that thinking of, okay, and I'll tell you, you know, it wasn't, I would be lying if I say that, you know, I had that aha moment where I saw that, you know hey, there is this big billion dollar problem. Let me go attack. Nobody has found it.
00:09:00
Speaker
I found it. And here is the gold rush. Nothing like that. There is no heroics in the story. You know, it was as simple as, as a customer, I felt there is a problem in insurance consolidation.
00:09:14
Speaker
That was the problem I was chasing. But what was more important was not that I found a problem. Most important aspect was that I had that bend of willing to listen to the problems that are going to be coming to me in the next phases and had that flexibility and that bend of iterating things.
00:09:38
Speaker
I did not carry that ego of, oh, what I'm thinking is the right solution. I'm willing to learn. And with that mindset, when I started with the problem, I went to these agencies and asked them that, hey, do you think this is a problem?
00:09:55
Speaker
And within the first five minutes, they busted my mouth and said, no, this is not the biggest problem that we face today. I have a much bigger problem that I'm willing to pay for.
00:10:06
Speaker
But why did you and why did you speak to agencies? Your your problem was that Me, the consumer, has multiple insurance policies and I don't have one single place to see all of them.
00:10:19
Speaker
ah so so ah Let me tell you, what there was a and very interesting disconnect. Customers want this where they can consolidate all their policy. Agents are the one who would pay for it.
00:10:37
Speaker
So who is paying and who is getting the value, there is a disconnect. And that's where that thing has to be crashed that moment. Hey, it is not working because who's getting the value, which is the customer. They are not going to pay for this.
00:10:51
Speaker
It is the agency who's going to pay. So that's why i went to them. Okay. Okay. Got it. Obviously, a customer will not pay. Right. Yeah. for For an agency, it's a value add to ensure customer loyalty. You tell your customer. Yes.
00:11:04
Speaker
You get this free app when you buy a policy from me, etc. Yes. Okay. no Got it. And it was an opportunity for them to cross-sell and upsell other products. So, they wanted them on their platform.
00:11:17
Speaker
But then they said, hey, have a much bigger fish to fry than this one. Yeah. And what was that bigger fish? so So they were, now we are talking six to eight years ago, right? um And at that time still, there was this transition happening, you know, now companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, and all are coming in, has become a thing where the
Bootstrapping Strategies and Financial Management
00:11:40
Speaker
transition has happened in the mindset of the customers who are, which is shifting from product-based thinking to customer-based thinking.
00:11:51
Speaker
So now everybody's focused on how do I serve the customer better rather than let me have a a bright, shiny object as a product. so But that shift has happened in other industries as well as in the fintech.
00:12:06
Speaker
Insurance was still slow to transition and adapt. It's like a big steam engine. you know It's not going to turn that swiftly. So there was this opportunity that the industry has not yet evolved technologically and that focus has not yet shifted from product to customers.
00:12:24
Speaker
That's where we come in and we say, okay, I think agencies can, what they have as a system is not good enough for them to engage, understand, and build that relationship with the customer.
00:12:39
Speaker
They are not able to send them email on their birthdays because there's not a good system. ah They do not have a way to know which policy will expire when and how do I inform them 60 days before.
00:12:51
Speaker
ah it It was just a lot of work that they would have to do manually to be able to manage all of this. And this CRM system was designed just to cater to those communications, yeah to cater to their pipeline, to understand what is coming through the funnel, for the leadership to understand which are my agents who are performing well.
00:13:15
Speaker
it is good for their service people to understand what kind of messages am I getting from my client, what kind of sentiments are being evolving. So all of that understanding,
00:13:27
Speaker
was not existing. All that was focused through the previous agency management system was, hey, I have a product which is policy, was, hey, you buy, I sell.
00:13:41
Speaker
That's it. But now we are transitioning that buy and sell to a relationship. So you're saying the existing software was a software to manage policies, not to manage customers, not to manage relationships.
00:13:58
Speaker
ah so So they would have some agency management software, which would have policy details, like when is this policy due, et cetera, et cetera, stuff like that. okay ah So what is, ah like,
00:14:15
Speaker
Do these talk to each other, your CRM and the policy management software? I think that was the aha moment for us. So when we build this system, see, CRM is not a new concept.
00:14:29
Speaker
There are world-class CRM products out there, you know, starting with Salesforce to Zoho in India, and there are many more in between. So I do not pride myself in saying that, you know, we have built the best in the class CRM.
00:14:44
Speaker
But what I pride ourselves in committing to is we have built a system that is world-class in terms of integration with these other systems. So the back-and-forth communication with the policy management systems
Philanthropy and Personal Growth
00:15:00
Speaker
and other systems is... So the plumbing is way more powerful than just the application.
00:15:08
Speaker
So then one plus one becomes 11 rather than, you know, it becomes way more of a hustle. And now I have to manage two systems. So before, in short, mine, like an agency might have taken a Salesforce.
00:15:22
Speaker
So they would manually be copying data. Exactly. The agency management software onto Salesforce so that. yeah ah It's a double entry system.
00:15:33
Speaker
Okay, so that the customer, ah if he's asking a question about a policy, then at least that data is within Salesforce or for reminders, date, etc. Okay, okay. how How does the claim management work? ah Is it the agency's responsibility to help the customer with the claim or the customer directly goes to the insurer and the agency has no role in that?
00:15:57
Speaker
No, agency do have a role ah to play. Like also in India, I think also the agents do that because I think it's an extended service. If you, this is the moment of truth, you know, you are paying insurance throughout the life for this moment.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Right. And if at that moment of crisis, you are not standing next to your customer, you know, what are you in business for? Hmm.
00:16:25
Speaker
And I think building that em empathy, building that relationship, that trust, and that support at that moment is is all they can do. And, you know, there and think you need to maneuver so many things at that moment.
00:16:39
Speaker
And agents do really help because they understand that space really well and what you can do, what you cannot. And just getting that guidance and support plays a huge role.
00:16:50
Speaker
Yeah. So who which product handles claims, like your CRM or the ah the agency management system? um Both, in a way, because the communications... So I'll i'll give you a very classic example. You know, one of our agencies, they have grown their business dramatically in the last 24 months.
00:17:08
Speaker
On what basis? they So they are fan-uous. They would identify the pockets, right? where there is thunderstorm, where there's flood. And they would send, based on the geographical location, they would send text messages, guys, if you have flood in your house or if you got thunderstorm or a tree fall on your house, text us back.
00:17:30
Speaker
We are going to file your claim. We'll get you started. And just the relationship has taken them over the roof in terms of new business. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
00:17:42
Speaker
Okay, fascinating. Got it. Okay. So to me, yeah this seems like a business which... um should scale fast by raising VC money.
00:17:56
Speaker
And I'll tell you why I feel that way. A CRM is a pretty sticky product. It's very hard for companies to replace a CRM and because all your data resides in that and it is never easy to migrate your data from one CRM to another CRM and for your people to relearn unlearn and relearn.
00:18:16
Speaker
ah So, yeah you know, what you have built, you have limited period of time in which you are exclusive to it. I feel like this is ah product with someone else with a little bit of money, maybe a million dollars could also build.
00:18:35
Speaker
um So you have a limited period of time in which you can capture this market. Every customer who installs your product will likely stick to it unless you screw up badly, which most probably you will not.
00:18:47
Speaker
So why not... be more aggressive, raise VC money? ah you know Is this business opportunity large enough for a VC to be attracted? Did you try raising VC funds? Absolutely. Yeah, no.
00:19:00
Speaker
So that's a very good question, but let's start with just again focusing on the US market. um There are a couple interesting nuances on that. First of all, There is, you know, if we are kind of a threat to this agency management system, they always believe we're going eat them up.
00:19:20
Speaker
We believe they're going to eat us You know, that thing is always happening, right? You know, it's life of five, you remember that tiger and that guy, right? So both have to be alert.
00:19:32
Speaker
Hmm. Hmm. But why we have survived so far, why we have thrived, we are continuing to do, why a new end trend, as you said, you know, with a million dollars, there's a lot of million dollars out there.
00:19:47
Speaker
There are a lot of smart engineers out there. yeah Why do we have not been able to be replaced. Right. Yeah. i think but But there is this layer of thinking that is important.
00:19:58
Speaker
It is, as I said, it is
AI in Insurance and Entrepreneurial Advice
00:20:00
Speaker
not CRM. Hmm. It is the depth of the plumbing, which is not easy to replicate.
00:20:09
Speaker
Because we understand this workflow so deep that just anybody bringing in a Salesforce or, you know, Pipedrive or Zoho would not be able to replace because of all these workflows that we have built.
00:20:26
Speaker
But there's a limited period. That's my point. I mean, someone could spend a year or two and learn what you have learned. Possibly they can, but the point is if they are trying to capture us in two years, we are also moving two years forward.
00:20:41
Speaker
And why not move forward faster with VC money? That's my question to you. Possibly. You know, there are a couple of attempts in the past that we have made, um but it always felt like, you know, the we may be able to capture the market faster, but we will lose the identity of how we... Because, see, it's not just about profitability and scale.
00:21:05
Speaker
It is also about empathy with the customers, the relationships that we have built, the way we are catering to the market, you know, it's ah that whole thesis is all on that.
00:21:16
Speaker
And I don't think there is any intent to lose that thesis. Hmm. and Okay. What is the opportunity for this CRM? How many?
00:21:27
Speaker
You said there are 4,000 agencies. 40,000. 40,000 agencies. Okay. and so So that's another element of that. um So if you look at this 40,000, probably there is 5,000 to 10,000 of these agencies who are 10 to 15 plus users.
00:21:45
Speaker
And then there's a long tail of 30,000 agencies which are less than 10 users. Mob and pop agencies. Mob and pop agencies. And that market is very notorious.
00:21:58
Speaker
Right. Okay. Okay. How much do you earn from an agency on average? it What's that? but What's your average contract value from an agency? um so So our contract value is around 13 to 14K. Okay.
00:22:13
Speaker
which means you were 12 to 14. So our ICP is in fact 10 user. So we cater to that first 1,000, first 1,500 agencies in the country. So today we have almost out of 50 agencies, we cater to 17 agencies ah out of that top 50.
00:22:31
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay. So one, three, seven, nine, there's a lot of these numbers that you know we are catering to that larger. And who are we replacing is Salesforce primarily.
00:22:44
Speaker
Okay. Okay, okay, okay. gar gar So I guess part of it is also possibly this market size is maybe 10 to $20 billion, dollars something like that. ah which ah Just from the CRM side, you know as the butt as the ecosystem, there the platform is evolving, it has a potential to disrupt few other carts on the table.
00:23:13
Speaker
So what are those? So again, if you look at that ecosystem or that um as agencies, you know, the AMS itself, you know, it's ah probably, I would say, ah two to $3 billion dollar market ah just from a revenue side.
00:23:30
Speaker
um And then you you look at um this whole... CRM side of the market. Then there is other periphery, you know, the voice softwares. There is that at least 10 other softwares in the space, which which adds up another probably a billion dollar.
00:23:46
Speaker
So if you add all this up, so probably there is a three to five billion dollar space just in the PNC. oh Okay. And then you can go beyond PNC into other...
00:23:59
Speaker
That's one thing. You can go ah horizontally to other, or you can go to others. So Canada, UK, Australia. So these are the markets also kind of almost there.
00:24:13
Speaker
Canada itself is very, very open markets that you can cater to. So the market is decent size. You know, I'm always curious to learn secrets of bootstrapping. A lot of people I interview are funded.
00:24:29
Speaker
When you're funded, then money is part of how you grew. But when you're bootstrapped, then money is not how you grew. So, you know, how did you reach to 5 million ARR? What were some of those lessons along the way, you know, like be it about acquiring customers or increasing the ACVs and so ah things like that?
00:24:49
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think there is not a single answer and there is not a single phase, you know. um Zero to half million was a whole different story than half to two million. And then two to five was a whole different story.
00:25:04
Speaker
And each of them had such an interesting lesson for us. You know, what we were doing, and I'll tell you, in the first half million, you know, it was just door knocking, literally. I was i was the sales guy, you know, so I sold until the first million. And I was just picking the phone and then in every call...
00:25:25
Speaker
hang up, hang up, hang up, not interested, call me later. And this was just, and my wife would tell me, like, I have not seen a guy who just got rejected and then picks up another call with a smile on his face. okay Amazing.
00:25:43
Speaker
I said, well, do I have a choice? Hmm. Right? You know, that's what I have to do. And that's what continued. And then the funny thing is, I should not say that.
00:25:54
Speaker
You had quit your job before starting? or like and No, I have not. I moonlighted this um for almost 18 months. well and And then we got, because we were operating in India and then there was team. So we hired four guys in India who were building all of this. We were just working with them at that point.
00:26:17
Speaker
And then growing that team when we had almost 15 or 16 employees, um almost, you know, 600, 700K revenue. And that's when i quit.
00:26:28
Speaker
And it's funny. So I was in US and I quit the job and my mom starts crying. He was the only bread earner. And now what happens?
00:26:41
Speaker
Right. um And and for unfortunately, my parents were there in the US at that time. And it was a freaking bold decision. It's like jumping without a parachute.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told my mom, mom, let me take this shot. I promise you will not regret that, you know, I did not get my best.
00:27:05
Speaker
Because I don't control the outcome, I control my efforts. um And we were at that point, and then we hit COVID, and then everything was just still, it worked for us.
00:27:19
Speaker
Because we were at that time working literally 20 a day, seven days a week. It was just a continuous insane amount of work that got done in that period. And we grew well in that COVID because everything was becoming digital and people needed software like this to be able to engage with the clients.
00:27:39
Speaker
you hate So it just worked well. It was just so it takes, as we say, takes iron balls to be an entrepreneur. It's not easy. Yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
so So that was phase one. And then as we started to cater to the second phase where the customers were growing, product was scaling, we had a few big accounts, but we were churning pretty big as well.
00:28:08
Speaker
Because it was the early days of the product, the product was not stable and a lot of things were happening. So we focused a little bit on product and then ah built a sales team that allowed us to kind of stabilize that.
00:28:22
Speaker
Then comes this hyper growth mode when we hit probably 1.5 to 2 billion. and And then we were growing to five. That's where we kind of have specialized departments.
00:28:35
Speaker
We had focus on ah very specific numbers. um Initially, it was, as I said, even in the first phase, one other thing was, one objective was we have to survive one more day.
00:28:48
Speaker
We have to survive one more day. And that was the motto that can we do one more day? Because we are going low on cash. We were not having good success with customers. So those things are just the natural part of it. Just if you have that tenacity, perseverance to push through, you will see the light of the day.
00:29:13
Speaker
And that's what That's what happened. But in the phase three, it was a whole different problem. Now we have scaling problem. You know, 2000 simultaneous users is using the system, and the system is getting jammed.
00:29:28
Speaker
um You don't think about those things in the phase one and phase two, but phase three, if you're thinking it's already too late. Yeah, yeah. And so we just, so there were a lot of moments where, hey, stop freaking building us any new piece of feature.
00:29:47
Speaker
Just get the product, write security, because now you have the billion-dollar accounts. you know These guys are selling billion-dollar policy premiums. You want everything as secure as possible.
00:30:01
Speaker
So security, scalability, ah so or speed were some of the things that we started focusing on. even Those were not up. So then that SOC 2 compliance and other things kind of came into picture, so which were like like luxury to us in the beginning, but were becoming a necessity as we moved on to this third phase. And things have been structured. And I'm fortunate that I have well good team members, good leaders who have who are very stable in the organization, um who have taken this product and the company to this point.
00:30:39
Speaker
ah I think, you know, one thing with... most people don't necessarily hear about is how bootstrap founders have a extremely high discipline on cost control.
00:30:53
Speaker
but You cannot bootstrap if you don't have that discipline. So, you know, what are your, what's your decision making framework on what you should spend money on? i mean, as an example, you could hire a sales guy, like a top-notch sales guy might cost $100,000 to $250,000 in the u similarly a product manager would cost again similar 100 150 000 ai engineers today are getting million dollar salaries also so that obviously is out of the question but so you know how do you think about what you should spend money on what you should not spend money on you know so that you're able to continue to bootstrap your way up
00:31:31
Speaker
but That's a very interesting question. and it's very important for, irrespective of bootstrap or not, I think, ah see, your first circle of employees, you know, who are committed, who are spending not just eight to 10 hours, but they're spending their time when they are sleeping, thinking about, you know, hey, what I have to do tomorrow? Why is this thing stuck?
00:31:56
Speaker
You find, you identify those people and you build ah kitchen counter conversation guys. you know These are the people you interact and solve problems with.
00:32:07
Speaker
And I'm fortunate that we had a lot of those guys. And the interesting thing was, so for example, I'll tell you, until today, I don't have a chief product officer. So there is no CPU.
00:32:19
Speaker
It's the CTO guy who's running the head and me who have been, you know and my wife complains about this, that you talk to this guy more than you talk to me.
00:32:29
Speaker
yeah right um But that's that's what happens. you know We spend so much time together ah problem solving. Hey, why is this customer saying this? Why is this happening? What what can we do to tweak this? How can we increase this adoption?
00:32:47
Speaker
Why is this churn happening? why Why is this becoming so consistent? So all of these conversations are happening because we have been continuously thinking and then it's not one guy.
00:32:58
Speaker
There's group. Other important thing in doing all of this was we are not just thinking in isolation. We are thinking with customers. um As I say always that you have to be listening to a customer at a decibel that no other person is listening because they are talking.
00:33:21
Speaker
And so ah we build at an average of 600 to 700 features or enhancement in a year. not that smart to think of those 600 features.
00:33:33
Speaker
Who is selling me? My customers are telling me. But most important thing is I'm listening to them. I'm understanding those 600 and 700. I'm understanding the difference between what they're telling.
00:33:46
Speaker
Is this their custom need or is this can be productized?
00:33:53
Speaker
So you have to have that wisdom to understand the difference between those two. You have to filter out the requests from customers. And then comes a part on, you know, hey, how you become frugal in thinking about... So you would you would hear that, you know, as insured mine employees,
00:34:16
Speaker
you know, I'll pay you dollars, but I'm also expecting you to be, you know, granding. This is a startup. We all hustle.
00:34:26
Speaker
As a CEO, I hustle. I expect everybody in the company to hustle in the same way. So there is no comfort zone. you know Nobody is able to just head boat.
00:34:38
Speaker
So things like if we are going to a conference, two guys are sharing a room, which is a big situation in US. yeah I don't give a shit. isnt yeah If you want to go, you better be sharing the room.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah. You know, um we, other example is, you know, a lot of large companies, they will send a shipment through FedEx. No, we would put it in the suitcases and we would take a carry along with us.
00:35:09
Speaker
So every dollar that we can save, we have saved. Um, office sites you know We would not have those fancy, lavish offices. You don't want ah ah probably an infested office, but you do not want an ivory tower.
00:35:31
Speaker
So things like that, you don't do what is needed to take us from a to B.
00:35:38
Speaker
Okay, fascinating. um How do you manage the business from India? ah Because all your customers are in the US and you decided to come back to India.
00:35:49
Speaker
What made you decide to come back to India and and how are you able to run it from India? Yeah, so that's that's a very interesting phase of my life and career and a very bold a decision, to say the least.
00:36:04
Speaker
um There are very few decisions. so Well, definitely starting in short mind or quitting was one of a bigger and a bolder decision, as good as you know coming to US 18 years ago was a big and bold decision.
00:36:17
Speaker
But I think all that is... It was by this decision when you have lived in the U.S. life of comfort for 18 long years.
00:36:28
Speaker
And suddenly, one fine day, you decide to pack your bags, sell your house, your cars, uproot yourself and say, you know what, I'm going to go back. um I'll tell you another element of that is, you know, this taking this decision might be very quick and bold and big, but it was never an impossible decision because I never gave up my passport. You know, so being in the U.S. for 18 years, you always get to a place where you can file for green card and your citizenship.
00:37:01
Speaker
And most of my colleagues or people who came with me in 2007 have done that and got to a place of comfort. You don't want to be in that um middle of ah this immigration situation.
00:37:15
Speaker
I chose to be in that middle of that immigration situation because it was not a question of if, it was a question of when I go back. Why? what like What makes you so patriotic?
00:37:31
Speaker
Is there something in your childhood that instilled this love for India in you?
00:37:38
Speaker
You know, I don't think I want to brand myself that I'm patriotic or something like that. You know, i think i my goal is always about, you know, hey, how far you have come. You always have to look back.
00:37:50
Speaker
You know, if you don't remember your history, history will not remember you. ah what What is your history? What what got you to the US in the first place? So everything, you know, from growing up in a 90 square feet home, house, apartment, whatever you want to call it, um a room is how so a family of five of us, we grew up in ah ah in a room of 90 square feet.
00:38:18
Speaker
And growing from that um upbringing and then going to a good resid college. like what was He was a businessman. okay He is retired now, but did enough.
00:38:32
Speaker
So it's a trading business. of ah He would bring grinding stones from all over the country, you know basically Bombay and Chennai and Bangalore.
00:38:43
Speaker
And then he would retail those in the local markets. um make A mix of good business, this but, you know, he chose to invest his time on his kids. So if we have exams and if we have a other education activities, he would not travel so he can help us. So it was a choice he made.
00:39:06
Speaker
And and i very happy that he made that choice. invested well and we did okay. that Those values would have come ah from your father only, I guess, that family first. Absolutely.
00:39:20
Speaker
um Family first, that's number one. And then second is, you know, it it was not a magic that I got to a place that I was able to apply to U.S. universities.
00:39:32
Speaker
There is a lot that got in between being a year old to that 24-year-old kid who is asked for him to go to U.S. And all that was not my money.
00:39:43
Speaker
whether it was state government, central government, local people, somebody gave me his house to live, to study, the street lamp under to which I studied, other things. So there's lot that has contributed to who I became.
00:40:00
Speaker
Then how suddenly can I become so selfish, forget everything that has happened in the past, and just look forward and just be in that cocooned space of comfort?
00:40:11
Speaker
ah What did you do for graduation? and Like like what what made the US thing come up in your mind? It's funny, you know, nothing per se, you know. So I went to St. Xavier's, I did my big comm there and then I'm comm from Calcutta University.
00:40:26
Speaker
um But, you know, so I come from a very, very mediocre background. And for me, I'll tell you, you know, it's funny, you know, control your laughter on that. So I bought this movie, you right? You know, Dilwala Dulhania Leja. And it fascinated me. This guy, Shah Rukh Khan. I'm like, you know, this guy.
00:40:46
Speaker
And that's what made me think, you know, I think there is something out there that is calling me. and But it took me seven years since that decision in my head that, you know, I need to go abroad for higher academics and things saved up eventually.
00:41:05
Speaker
But you got to be just persistent with that cause that, you know, need to do this. You know, whether it's about going to U.S. s took me seven years, whether it's about coming back took me 18 years.
00:41:17
Speaker
You know, all these are just indicators of if you have put your mind to something, you know, you will do it, but you just got to be there for for its that outcome.
00:41:29
Speaker
You got a scholarship, I'm assuming, right? Because your father wouldn't have been able to afford... Absolutely. So so there is two elements and I would... ah You know, I do not shy away from saying that. So the school gave me scholarship and they were actually giving me less of scholarship. And I was very blunt about that to say that, hey, if you do not increase my scholarship, I am not coming because nobody's paying for that.
00:42:00
Speaker
And so then they increased it to almost 80%. And then this 20% itself was huge. this twenty percent itself was huge Yeah, I'm sure. And my dad and mom says, you know, I don't know what you're thinking, dude. You know, you going to do this?
00:42:15
Speaker
I was fortunate. One of my neighbor, um he asked his relative, hey, can you be his guarantor to the bank?
00:42:27
Speaker
And that guy knew nothing about me and he became my guarantor. And so, you know, there's so many people who have contributed to my life.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yeah. So how come I just disappear um from the face of this earth and say, you know, hey, goodbye, thank you. So so that's this is my way of coming back and doing things and and just ah giving it back.
00:42:56
Speaker
And I said this to that neighbor once that I don't think I can ah repay what you have done for me. But what I can ensure is I pay it forward.
00:43:11
Speaker
How are you paying it forward? yeah as as The reason of coming back is, I've done reasonably well with my life financially or professionally or personally. um I'm gifted with two very, very smart young kids who are doing fantastic in chess and other sports.
00:43:35
Speaker
My goal is, you know, I've done what I could. You know, a lot of people have supported me to get me where I am. goal is create another hundred Roshan.
00:43:46
Speaker
um for that reason, I started a foundation last year in the name of my grandparents, Sudama Devi Bhagwanda Jaswal Foundation. And the intent of that foundation is, you know, ah so one of the projects we started is Project Disha.
00:44:02
Speaker
And Disha is all about ah giving consultation and counseling to kids of grade 9, 10, 11, 12, who just know art, science, and commerce, there is a life and career way beyond that. For example, you know you are a podcaster. That's a career.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah. yeah You don't do that. Guy knows that. If he's thinking science, and commerce, where does he freaking fit podcasting? He wants to be an IPS or an IES. Where does he fit that?
00:44:33
Speaker
So showing them that there are opportunities that exist today is the mission of this foundation is to enlighten the path of these kids, especially, so we are catering to the kids. So 850 kids were chosen in the first phase.
00:44:52
Speaker
And these kids who go to school, government schools, um and it's interesting, actually, you ask this question because these kids don't go to school for academics.
00:45:06
Speaker
they go to school for midday meals. Many of them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it, it breaks my heart to see that condition of how they are there. You know, the school condition, the, the education system, the students, dance yeah their, their clothes, their shoes, a lot of things, lot needs to change.
00:45:32
Speaker
And, There is not an angel who's going to come from the sky and just, you know, with a magic wand. It's you and I who need to step up to do few little things here and there and make an impact.
00:45:51
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. um yeah How do you run the US s sales sitting in India? how like you how you but I believe for like selling to this traditional kind of agency owner, you would need FaceTime.
00:46:07
Speaker
Absolutely. ah See, I consider, i don't, you know, my team laughs about it when I say I don't know how to sell. if you can't sell, this and nobody knows how to sell. um i enjoy I enjoy talking. I enjoy selling.
00:46:22
Speaker
um Though I'm a technologist by heart, but selling is something I really enjoy. I have a passion about that. So, and first principle of selling is not about you know, dazzling them with a shiny product.
00:46:39
Speaker
It's about building trust. It's about empathy. It's about understanding and listening to them. and And that's how I build a relation. Once a relation is built, product is sold.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, true. Yeah. um So that's what I focus with these larger accounts is, do you understand me? Do I understand you Do we connect?
00:47:02
Speaker
Do we have the same philosophies, the same principles are on which we are running our business? Mm-hmm. I was just going to add that, you know, hey, I'm a long-term player.
00:47:17
Speaker
Anything you would hear about me is not erratic. It's not short-term. So when you have that perspective of long-term on anything, it starts with the relationship because you are not looking to cut corners.
00:47:32
Speaker
You've played the head of product role in a way. ah Tell me about the product evolution over the last couple of years and what is the roadmap going forward?
00:47:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. you know When we started this, as I said, you know we didn't start by building a, hey, let's build a world-class CRM because there is a need. In fact, as I said, you know the idea was to build a mobile app to consolidate policy.
00:48:01
Speaker
Then we spoke to these agencies and they said, no, this is not what I need. And then when we started listening to their need, It was more like, you know, the anecdote I talk about this um this is they said, hey, add two eyes. We added two eyes. They said, add two ears. We added two ears. They said, add two legs. We added two legs. They said, add two more legs.
00:48:22
Speaker
We added two more legs. They said, add a tail. We added a tail. And then when they're looking at by adding all these requirements of what they said, this looks like a dog.
00:48:32
Speaker
So that's when we say, okay, let's call it a CRM dog. You know, because we were not building a CRM. We were just solving their business problem. And then when you solve a set of problems, that fits into a category now, which is a CRM.
00:48:49
Speaker
So that's how we solved for it. And that's how the product was built. But now let's look at what was the first thing we solved for. The first thing we solved for was customer communication.
00:49:03
Speaker
That's what was missing. Customer communication in sales. They wanted to connect on sales, and then the communication was missing. We brought that communication, whether it's email, text, phone call, notes, all of that communication was consolidated.
00:49:20
Speaker
Now customers' perspective was way better. It's much evolved for these agencies. So that was phase one. Phase two was about moving that into automation.
00:49:32
Speaker
Hey, how do we take high volume, low value work into automation and high value, low volume work into agents consultation?
00:49:44
Speaker
So that automation and consultation was balanced. That was phase And then comes this whole new era of AI. That's where we started moving into ai side of things.
00:49:55
Speaker
And even in AI, if I double click, it was into three phases. Phase one was generative AI, where we were rephrasing things, writing email, drafts, text messages, all of that.
00:50:08
Speaker
Phase two was predictive AI. where we were predicting whether this deal will be closed. What is the probability of closing this door deal? What is the probability of this renewal is going to happen? What is the probability this cross-sell will happen?
00:50:21
Speaker
All the probabilities for all of these things. Then comes the third phase that what we are working on right now in AI, which is not only predictive, but prescriptive.
00:50:36
Speaker
So, for example, if you are predicting the possibility of closing this deal is 20%, that's not good. So, the prescriptive way I will say, if you do B, C, the probability will move from 20 to 70. Bingo.
00:50:54
Speaker
That's what you want to do. Okay. So that's what we are focusing on in the phase three of AI. And so we have a pretty robust team on AI. That's what is working on. And there's lot more beyond everything else. This is what the focus is.
00:51:08
Speaker
ah do you find ah Do you find India has enough talent depth in AI compared to the US? Well, for us, the entire talent pool is actually in India. So as I mentioned, you know, ah we have a team in Bangalore, um almost closer to 100 people. um Engineering team is based out of Bangalore.
00:51:29
Speaker
um It's unfortunate that, you know, Bangalore has become half the guys from Kolkata are flying in UP, Bihar, RISA, you know, you name it, Maharashtra, all of these guys are just...
00:51:43
Speaker
so Talent-wise, you it's it's pretty good. But what has also happened has, as you were mentioning earlier, that because there is talent and there is some such a high demand,
00:51:58
Speaker
These guys who should be at 30 lakh are now sitting at 70 or 1.2. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and so access to that level of talent of their true salary is kind of at a whole different scale.
00:52:18
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay. no You know, a plumber will probably never lose his job to ai but I feel like an insurance agent could very easily lose his job to ai ah What is there an agent doing? He's understanding the need of the customer. It's like consultative product building, you know, understanding need and accordingly building a product and underwriting All of this is perfect for AI to do.
00:52:47
Speaker
Do you see an AI insurance agency, like, you know, where all the insurance agents are AI agents? Do you see that happening in your industry?
00:52:58
Speaker
It's already happening. So it's not a newer concept. You know, I think in the last few years, that has evolved further and it will continue to evolve. But I am bullish on agent management.
00:53:12
Speaker
community I don't think agents are going anywhere. Why? so Because, see, insurance is a very niche product.
00:53:24
Speaker
There is a lot of terminology. There is a lot of nuance to that. that But just that's perfect for AI agents, right? like like this is I mean, it anything which is knowledge work, where knowledge is the key thing, an AI agent is perfect for that.
00:53:43
Speaker
See, that is what people thought when direct-to-consumer product came in. That, oh, I can sell it directly and they will buy it and this will be entirely, this agent community will be disrupted.
00:53:58
Speaker
Unfortunately or fortunately, that didn't happen. And the same thing, you know, I think what is going to happen is this yeah agent community will embrace AI and they will leverage it to their strength to able to deliver superior underwriting capabilities and services to the customers rather than, you know, AI just being on the side of the customer.
00:54:27
Speaker
and okay okay understood okay but so let me end with this um what's your advice to founders who are starting to build something today you know given the state of ai today what should they be thinking about in terms of how to build a business what markets to build for ah should it be an ai first business things like that like like any advice you'd like to share with aspiring founders Absolutely. You know, so see, first of all, congratulations to all those aspiring entrepreneurs.
00:54:59
Speaker
There is no better time to build. What would have taken you two years, three years to build? Today, you can build it in two to three months.
00:55:11
Speaker
You know, so that rapid growth in how you can develop is fascinating. You know, the platforms are so easily developed to do things. But don't be in the right place, you know. so So I think it's very important to have that, you know, again, you don't need to have the background, you know, like I'm a classic example of that.
00:55:33
Speaker
But what you need is discipline. If you have the discipline to, okay, this is a problem, let me go at it. Go talk to everybody that would matter in this case.
00:55:46
Speaker
Understand, build your thesis around it, engage and talk. And, you know, see, I'll tell you, there is not a single idea that is guaranteed.
00:55:58
Speaker
Not a single idea. Otherwise, you know, there lot of good VCs who would have mastered that thought that, you know, I know this is going to make it. Nobody knows. Nobody knows on any freaking idea.
00:56:11
Speaker
So what you have to do is let an idea live its life. Some ideas will live a day, some a month, some five years, and some forever.
00:56:22
Speaker
So never be so bullish on an idea. Oh, this is that billion-dollar idea. You don't know. Nobody knows. So be flexible in that way that, okay, if you can run with it, run as far as you can.
00:56:38
Speaker
Let that idea run as far as it can. But know that the idea has a self-life, which nobody knows. Only that idea its own mind knows.
00:56:49
Speaker
And then it's you, how far you can go with your discipline of understanding. And you know it's very important you know We also had to learn that, that find early days customer.
00:57:03
Speaker
Find customer who is willing to pay. Don't just sit on pilots and, oh one of them will convert. That's a death wish. Find early customers, make them your allies, you know and then they will... So I used to... Here is a very interesting story. My first customer...
00:57:25
Speaker
He said, I only have time for you before I go to church on Sunday. And what would be that time? It would be 6 a.m. to 8.30. And I freaking go to bed at 4.30 or 5 a.m. And then I have somehow figure out how do I wake up and be in his office by 6 a.m.
00:57:44
Speaker
um What? Hey, if that guy is giving me that time, I'm going to take it. the Yeah. So... Once you find a customer, you know be with him as much as you can. Spend time because they are the one who will tell you the tricks of the trade.
00:58:03
Speaker
And then, of course, so there's two sides of it. you know Build a very strong product because without product, working exists. Does not matter. You know, and then start finding your early days customer. Once these two things start humming, you know, it may take time. It will. Other things you can manage. You know, the selling and the product are the two things which keeps you going.
00:58:30
Speaker
And I think if you do that right, you know, things will happen. Thank you so much for your time, Roshan. It was a real honor to speak to you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for giving me this opportunity to share whatever little I have learned on my way.