Transcript
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Speaker: Welcome to the Full Measure Podcast. Great to have you with us for another week of spiritus news of Australia. And I'm very lucky to again be joined by a guest. we keep The guests keep coming. How about the value that we're providing every week? It's fantastic. This week, ah Craig Michael, head distiller at Bellarine, has been very lucky and fantastic to join us in the studio. So welcome, Craig. Thank you, Luke. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and it's exciting to see the full measure up and running, being listening to the podcast. It's fantastic. Oh, wow. So, you know, hopefully other listeners out there take note. So we've ah we've converted one and brought you in, which is great. so Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker: Plenty of listeners now. Yeah, good, mate. Especially with you on. The the metrics, the data's going to go through the roof. but Fantastic to have you in. We've got you in to talk all sorts of things. There's plenty happening at Bellarine Distillery where you're based and we can talk to that as we move along. But... We might start maybe just with a while. One of the key reasons we have you in is there's a very special festival happening down at Bellarine Distillery very soon, end of October 24th to be exact, Whiskey by the Bay. We'll probably do Whiskey by the Bay in depth before that, but maybe give us, ah I guess, a bit of background on Bellarine Distillery, why it's such a great place to host an event like Whiskey by the Bay, and then maybe we can sort of, yeah, ease into the whole Bellarine story and your involvement with the distillery as well.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so who who is Bellarine Distillery? We're a pretty small team. There's Russ Watson, who's the founder, along with his his late wife, Laurel. It's myself and my wife, Nikki. So we're the owners. We all wear multiple hats, probably too many hats, as a most small business owners do. Pretty standard in the industry, yeah.
Speaker: um We've got a really good team too. in The distillery, I've got a couple of guys. We've got Ben and Will running production processes. We've got Courtney and Drew at the Whiskery, our our venue. yes They're running the bar in front of house. We've just got a new chef, Liam, who's doing some wonderful things in the kitchen there as well. So we're doing pizzas and... And things like calamari and zucchini wedges to go with our gin paddles and our whiskey paddles that we do down there seven seven days a week.
Speaker: um what What we try and focus on down there is the the people, the relationships and and the community. We're we're kind of 100% focused on cultivating a community of people who want to deepen their experience and celebrate what really matters in in life. yeah So we make gin and whiskey really as tools to help achieve that purpose. yeah Now we take the tools very seriously. I think um we we like to focus on premium tools for celebration. yes um and And to be honest, they are they are good tools for this type of thing. I mean, alcohol often gets a bad rap. However, Let's be honest, everyone loves drinking it because it connects us together and and it and it creates that sense of community. So that's what we're really trying to do down there at Bellarine. We're focusing on making these premium products which are really aimed at helping us all connect and and and grow a community, which is why we do events like Whiskey by the Bay. yep
Speaker: that is that That is the whole point of of doing Whiskey by the Bay. there's' ah There's two main reasons that we came up with doing this particular event. festival one is that we saw a bit of a gap in the market especially for regional areas and for distillers in particular and producers to be able to come to something with ah a low ah barrier of entry so like low cost um not taking anyone's margin as well just people coming along and primarily to have some fun as well so we we want to have some fun we we hang out after the festival and we all sit around and And share our products and eat some pizzas. It's it's good. Yeah. Yeah. um But the other thing was was for the local community as well, because there's not many people out there in our local area that A, even know that we exist. And B, that there's other distilleries around there and in Victoria that are making cracking spirits, making rum and brandy and... um
Speaker: and whiskey and liqueurs and and and gin as well. So we thought we'll we'll make a festival where we'll keep it small yeah in terms of the number of distillers coming. So under 20, we'll we keep it under 20. It's a pretty broad spread of distilleries It yeah. You've got it is yeah right across categories, different spirits categories, different whiskey producers across countries too, which is exciting.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. We've got some people across the straight there coming as well. We've got some new players coming this year. We've got Kalara, we've got Christy Lark coming out. Beautiful. Exceptional whiskey. Exceptional whiskey. We've got the famous Tim Duckett coming well. Duckett, the Duckett Bucket. Yes. He'll be in train. Louis coming as well, I imagine? I hope so, yes. I haven't heard if Louis coming. That's Tim's son. hope he is. He's always right. Anytime he gets around the festival circuit, so...
Speaker: Maybe talk to us about the place because that's obviously central to everything that you do as a distillery, your approach as a distiller and then maybe we can finish off on, ah well, tasting some whiskey and then tick off Whiskey by the Bay and of course mention why everyone should be down there. But um the place itself, Bellarine Distillery, it's an amazing transformation that it's undertaken to to bring it to the the place that it is now. So yeah, where did that start and what have you achieved since? Absolutely. So oh this was the brainchild and the dream of of Russ and L'Oreal. Back in 2014, I think they traveled to the Scottish Highlands and got inspired over there. i think they saw Bill Lark on a documentary on on Landline and they and they thought, wow, we we could probably do something like this in our neck of the woods because the Bellarine is beautiful. yeah
Speaker: There's nothing down there in terms of a distillery, not since Corio days, since the 1980s, had there been a distillery in that region, they thought... We should do that yeah and we should we should look for a property. So they found this old chicken farm and it was in disrepair. There was old sheds everywhere, chicken poo everywhere, these old grain silos. that Everything needed some cleanup and some restoration work, which Russ was amazing at. He spent a good couple of years trying to get that property into shape. And renovating some of these chicken sheds to become the the venue, the cellar door, and also the distillery itself. um
Speaker: They got it permitted around 2015, 2016. And then that's when I came in. I kind of wanted to muscle in on their dream as well. Because because my wife and I had had similar dreams. we'd we'd We'd actually looked at a place up next to Bright Brewery actually back in 2014. We thought we could we could buy this blaant a vacant block of land and build a distillery here. We've got the brewery next door. It'd be a great partnership. But yeah, you need you need some money to do all that. You need a fair bit of money.
Speaker: um So we didn't do that. And we'd also just had our second child as well. And we thought we we're moving to Geelong. That got got put on the back burner. But I was doing a bit of home brewing. i was interested in distilling. yeah i was talking to David Baker at the time too. I was like, geez, I'd love to go get some work experience over there. But yeah yeah unfortunately, that didn't didn't eventuate. Their loss anyway. David and Andrew, if you're listening. Yeah, they're pretty full. They've had big roster of people over the years. And Dave is very particular. where He likes to do things. He's his own steam. So yeah.
Speaker: One of the first kind of masterclasses I went to was run by Dave. Oh, wow. It was great. It was in Melbourne here. Yeah. My wife had bought it for me as a present. And that's when I really got fascinated with whiskey and in particular Australian whiskey, which there wasn't much of at the time. They've educated half of Melbourne, I reckon. And I would not, I said that conservatively, they have really got out and done an amazing job on that front over the years. Absolutely. And they're lovely people. And I hope they're coming to Whiskey by the Bay. Andrew, if you are listening, trying to get hold of you. Come join us. Come on. This is your cue. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker: ah So, yeah, so I basically rocked up on Russ and Laurel's doorstep, literally unannounced and uninvited and said, I really like what what what I hear you're doing here. I'd love to get involved.
Speaker: And Russ was like, well, we don't have any jobs here. We're just trying to renovate. He was knee deep in mud at the time, like with a wheelbarrow. Chicken shit. Yeah, knee deep in chicken shit. Trying to put in stumps of the venue. And I said, oh, well, I'll give you a call. I reckon I could be useful. I'm really interested in the technical side. I'm going to do this course. I'm going to do a diploma in distilling out of the UK. And he said, oh, do you know that the general certificate's actually been run in Tassie? And I'm thinking of going and do the three-day practical part of that run by Anne Gigny. And I said, yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. So we didn't know each other at time. We thought, let's travel to Tassie together and go do this course. God, wow. Yeah, and we hit it off down there, and I kept pestering him going, I'd love to come and get involved. Look, you don't even have to pay me. And he didn't want to take advantage of me, but I kept pestering him. And eventually he said, okay, come on down. If you want to help, but it's going to be lawn mowing. It's going to be all this because we don't have a still yet. I said, that's fine. I'll come down a day a week. and I'll volunteer with the proviso that once the copper comes, that maybe I can be over that side. on the tools. Get on the tools.
Speaker: And yeah, he agreed to that. So yeah, I worked there for a year or volunteered for a year. And then then they offered me a job to run the distillery once we went into commercial production. And then about a year after that, um they they offered if we wanted to buy into the business as well. So then yeah then we then we purchased 50% of the business, my wife and I, and haven't looked back. Yeah, partnerships formed. um Now, obviously, jump on to the full measure. You can read the the full profile, the full story of Bellarine and everything they've achieved recently. And we will definitely have...
Speaker: Craig, of course, and Russ back in the studio at some point to do the proper bellerine deep dive. I mean, Russ and Craig, especially Russ, one of the celebrities of the industry, I reckon. He's much loved. We'll definitely do that um in depth. If we fast forward, I guess, to when you start releasing gin, you start releasing whiskey, and then I guess that's going to bring us to to what's in our glasses then probably to whiskey by the bay as well. Yeah.
Speaker: Very early on, I remember tasting the whiskeys and immediately thinking, wow, there's something pretty special going on here. That was obviously down to to your approach to to Craig's study and research and to obviously L'Rell, all the work that you were doing, the gin side of things is something we could you know do a whole podcast on itself as well. um The awards start trickling in and you start to get this massive recognition, which takes us to what is in our glass here. That must have been pretty gratifying when you start releasing whiskeys and you start winning big.
Speaker: Absolutely. And especially because we, I mean, in the early days, we kind of didn't think much of awards, to be honest. were like, oh, we're not going to enter them. We're just going to, if people love our product, that's all that matters to us. If we're going to sell it, that's fine. But and some some of these awards, especially the Melbourne Royal ones that we've been recently entering, we really respect the the quality of the judges that ah that are that are there. Yeah, they're pretty good. Are you one of those judges? They're pretty good, that team, i reckon. Yeah, I've heard they're good.
Speaker: um So we did want to get some feedback on some of our whiskeys and we started entering probably maybe three three years into our whiskey-making yeah career just to see what what judges thought. and we we yeah I think the first time we did get a ah gold for one of our releases, but it was the year after that where we we took out the trophy for with Kestrel for Australia's Best Single Malt.
Speaker: And that was so gratifying. It was... It's nice to get that that bit of recognition. And also for other people to hear about us, we started getting calls from Sydney sydney bars and restaurants going, oh, we've never heard of you guys. Can can can we try some?
Speaker: and But we'd been you know we've been learning a lot from the start. We didn't have a lot of technical knowledge to begin with, been learning on the job. A lot of it was very flavor forward. So based on sensory analysis, where our cut should be, we were just tasting and and and hoping for the best that it will go well in a cask.
Speaker: Now we've seen some of those things come out of the cask. We've been tweaking our new make for eight years now. We've really just stopped stopped tweaking it because we really focus on on the spirit itself. We didn't just have a recipe ah that we stuck with from day one. we We wanted to look at what levers can we pull to get to a particular flavor profile. and Both Russ and i love mouthfeel, whiskies that have a weight of viscosity. you know We'd describe whiskies that we like and it was always, oh, this was really silky or was really honeyed or it ah it had it had it was really nice on the palate. It was texturally delicious. It was velvety.
Speaker: And all of those were mouthfeel descriptors. so we thought, okay, we need to figure out how you get good mouthfeel in a whiskey. yeah So then it was pushing and pulling every lever. And there's hundreds of levers in distilling. And most of them, to be honest, a lot of people focus on the barrel with whiskey.
Speaker: However, we like to focus on the processes before it gets into the barrel because there's a lot of them. There's probably more processes before you go to the barrel than there is afterwards. you know There's the mashing, there's the brewing, there's the fermentation, there's what temperature you firm at, there's...
Speaker: yeah what type of steel you're using, how you run that steel, where your cuts are, and that's just a a few of them. And your obsession with this, I think, has shown loud and clear in the whiskeys that you have released. um Jump on have a look at the progression of, if you jump on the website, you can see the progression of the releases too, which is absolutely fantastic. And you know you get to a point ah where we've got something like this in our glass, where...
Speaker: Everything that you're talking about in terms of the character of the spirit is there and then you've married that up beautifully with the cast. So maybe talk to us up through this particular whiskey. um Obviously, it's a very significant one for you. Yeah, I appreciate that. So this is the Peregrine Falcon. All of our rare series are named after wildlife, in particular birds, that we see on on the property.
Speaker: This one also had an interesting link because the barrel that we sourced for this whiskey was from a winery called Peregrine Ridge Winery, which is a small boutique winery up near Heathcote. We actually reached out to them because we were looking for American oak wine barrels in Victoria, ye which is hard to come across, yeah actually. Like 99% of the wineries in Victoria are French oak. That's mainly because the wines suit that style, but also because a lot of Victorian winemakers have ah have a French school school of winemaking background, yeah or at least generationally they they do
Speaker: um And some might say they're also a little bit snobby. that's why We only use French oak. It's got to be French. But we found a couple. And and obviously up in the Heathcote region, there's a couple there because the wines there are a bit bigger and bolder. They've got some of those big, big earthy characters and big, bold, dark fruit characters. So we reached out to Peregrine said, do you have any ah wine barrels, red wine barrels in particular we're after? And they said, oh, yeah we might be emptying some soon. So we got some port barrels off them and these these Shiraz barrels. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Because we'd been mainly using Scotchman's Hill. They're right next door to We use their French oak. They get some great French oak as well. So all of our early releases are French oak, Pinot Noir.
Speaker: Yes, high-quality casks. High-quality casks. And we just thought it would be nice to see what this new mate tastes like in in American oak. Because I've always been wondering, like, how much impact does the oak type have on a whiskey? And how much impact does the prior fill have? yeah you know does is it Does it matter if it's a Shiraz or a Pinot? Or does it matter more that it's French or American? So we went and got some American oak and yeah, the difference was huge. yeah right Massive.
Speaker: So we've seen this know over and over again too. The type of oak really has a ah dominating a dominating flavour on it. And then second to that, I think the fill, prior fill after that has has an influence as well. But I think the oak type dominates. Anyway, we put our spirit in. The American oak is it's a bit bigger, it's bolder, it's got more vanilla and coconut, and I really liked where this whiskey was going. So it spent four years in in that ah in that American oak cask.
Speaker: But then, and and first fill wine barrels are often like this. They're big, they're juicy. Sometimes they can get a bit too big. they They've got a lot of tannin to give. So we took it out after four years, and and we do this a lot. we put We put it into a neutral barrel after that, and it was actually a third or even fourth fill, Bourbon barrel. all right And the purpose of that was to stop extraction. We didn't want any more extraction, but we wanted those oxygen-related reactions to continue um and hopefully tame some of those big flavors and soften them out a bit and turn them into something more complex and rich and velvety. And that shows for me. I think the extra finishing touch that you've done with this whiskey and others as well has been absolutely critical. And then obviously you release it, send it off to the awards, and it goes particularly well.
Speaker: It did, yep. This one came back with a gold medal, which we were very, very excited for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. um Yeah, and I think for anyone, any whiskey nuts out there or anyone who's just curious about whiskey, if you want to understand how much attention to detail goes into producing what are some of the finest whiskeys in this part of the world, your explanation there goes into it. And literally, as as we do, as we often do when we catch up, um we talk through all of those things and it shows in the whiskey. So,
Speaker: Make sure if you haven't checked out Ballerines Whiskies yet, please do so. and of course, one of the best places to do that would be to come down to Whiskey by the Bay on the 24th of October. So who are some of the other people going to be there and what else can people expect if they jump down?
Speaker: so So we've got 19 distilleries coming down. Also some independent bottlers too because even though the primary reason of this festival is to showcase mainly local producers but also like say across across the strait there in Tassie, But we also want to invite people that a are our friends and people that we really respect in the industry that have really been championing whiskey. So people like Scotchmort Whiskey Society, for instance. It's not it's not Australian whiskey, although they do have some Australian bottlings as well. yeah But people like Matt Bailey have been fantastic. we We're a partner bar with them. yeah They come down and do some tastings with us. So they're going to be there.
Speaker: People like Jules, Brook and Jules. Brook and Jules, who we had on the podcast very recently. yeahp that yeah very good so Jules is running the the rare bar, so he'll be showcasing some whiskeys that you just don't often get to see. yeah And for for the people that are coming to this, and we've we've marketed it as this is for the whiskey curious. you know We get everyone from who hasn't tried whiskey before but would love to try it. Haven't even heard that there's Victorian distilleries but want to try it.
Speaker: Right up to the whiskey geeks that just love whiskey and and people that buy every one of our releases and and want to come or... you know they They love Victorian whiskey and Australian whiskey already. So we've got you know we've got the likes of Backwoods from Yak and Dander. We've got Tim Boone. We've got Josh coming down from Tim Boone. From Tassie, we've got Ferno and Calara. Oh, yes. It's a great spread, isn't it? Yeah, so it's a good spread. We've got we've got some more local ones, Loaded Barrel, Imbue from around the Melbourne area. al but Yeah, fantastic. So, look, it's such an exciting festival. Having been last year, and I know many people have ah attended last year who would be listening, it's honestly one of the things that I penciled in first on my calendar this year. So, I'll be heading down, cannot wait, but... Mate, thank you so much for taking us through it, of course. Jump onto the Bellarine website where you can see the tickets and please join us down there because yeah it's an absolute treat. So Craig, one more thing to add? I just had a couple of other things. We're doing some different things this to have the silo sessions, which are basically these- yeah, little breakouts. Yeah, little breakouts. It's bit like one hour long masterclasses in our small ah silo. So it's going to be intimate with four producers that you you get to sit down and talk through and And Justin Farmer, our yeah ah brand ambassador, farmer yeah yeah yeah got lots of brilliant ideas. And this is this come out of his this is his brainchild, these silo sessions and some really good topics. Like one is called, what's the molternative? So we'll keep looking at things that are different to malt. So so because we've got we've got Holly from Bass and Flinders coming, showcasing her brandy. Another person we featured on the pod recently. Yeah, that was a good one. we've got We've got James from Jimmy Rum showcasing his rum as well. We've got um Tim Boone and Chief Son with some whiskey liqueurs and that type of thing. We've got another one called What Is Australian Whiskey? Which will be an interesting one too. Yeah, cool. It's a good question. like What makes Australian whiskey? Yeah. yeah And that might lead into these ah standards that we might talk Yeah, yeah, next. yeah Well, that's a great segue because we might finish up there and have a little break and come back. There's still plenty for us to talk about. Thank you so much to Craig for showing us everything to do about Ballerina, Cillerate and Whiskey by the Bay. But we'll see you in a sec.
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Speaker: that's s t a g t f m eleven We at the fullmeasure dot com dot you forward slash we are back here with Craig Michael from Bellarine Distillery. We're talking everything Australian whiskey. We're touching on, well, we might just touch on gin on this side of the chat as well, but we also would like to discuss an article that we dropped recently, and it was due to a a reader question which was fantastic so if you have questions out there about australian spirits land we're very lucky to have access to a lot of the experts and this particular question went to the additives that are allowed in australian spirits um so things like colorings flavorings what actually happens post um bottling well sorry post post the still after the barrel um what's allowed in terms of
Speaker: things you can add. It's quite a gray area and what I'd love to do right now is throw to Sebastian Rabin who are from Anthos Spirits in Geelong. He has given us a great breakdown of where Australia sits at the moment and what you can expect when you pick up a bottle. So going to throw to that now.
Speaker: Hey everyone, we had a great question come in from a reader recently on the use of additives in Australian spirits for things like whiskey, brandy, rum. Luckily, we're able to grab a hold of Sebastian Rayburn, the master distiller at Anthospirits in Geelong, who's with me now. Thanks so much, Seb. Seb, to your knowledge, what's permissible sort of under these laws and how has it all developed?
Speaker: Australia takes its law around definitions of Australian spirits actually from the Excise Act. So technically, The ATO are the ones that administer technical standards for Australian spirits, which is great in terms of tracking our money. We're all taxpayers. It's all our money, but also terrible when it comes to defining what a spirit is and isn't.
Speaker: And as far as the ATO are concerned, As long as you pay your tax, it looks, tastes and seems like in the spirit that's on the bottle and it fills a few technical things like if it's whiskey, it's two years old, made from cereal, if it's rum, two years old, from a sugar paint derivative, or if it's brandy, minimum of two years old, all aged in wood and from wine.
Speaker: Most other spirits are pretty broad. So within that, they're happy if you add some additives. Right. So how do these regulations sort of play out in practice and what ingredients are actually permissible?
Speaker: Once you've ticked the box with the ATO for the definition of the spirit and what it actually should be, you also run into Australian food labelling laws. So we operate with New Zealand, so it's called Fisants, which is the Food Standards Australia New Zealand.
Speaker: And that tells you that some ingredients and additives must be listed. However, it also states that standard spirits are exempt from ingredients labelling.
Speaker: So if you're a whisky, a brandy, a gin, a vodka, you are exempt from labelling what's in your product. That applies to any additives, any preservatives, colours, except if they're a preservative or a colour that requires declaration. So things like sulfites, they require declaration if they're above a certain colour.
Speaker: amount. So that would have to say contain sulphide. But other than that, if it's not a declared ingredient, again, standard spirits don't have to declare anything. Okay, so with that in mind, then so what are the what's the background to these regulations and what sort of work's been done to sort of update some of the technical standards and definitions that we have ah here in Australia?
Speaker: As you can see, because Australia, know, for the last sort of, you know, other than the last 20, 30 really had sort of 60, 70 year gap in being a major spirit producer, we really relied on global definitions and didn't create technical standards internally o ourselves of what is gin in regards to Australian law? What is whiskey in regards to Australian law outside of those broad sort of structures?
Speaker: So those fine definitions for Australia that tell you what additives are allowed, what are not, don't exist yet. but There a lot of people working on it. The Australian Basilis Association are working on it.
Speaker: There's been some draft pieces to put together. Melbourne Royal with the Australian International Spirit Competition actually have really clearly defined categories. So they're they're probably the most detailed definitions and you can look them up, no problem.
Speaker: But all of that work is still to be done. It's coming. There's a lot of people very passionate about it. Hopefully, we'll get some amazing Australian and technical standards soon.
Speaker: Hopefully, that'd be great. So to simplify it for consumers, when they pick up a bottle of, say, Australian whiskey, brandy or rum, will label tell them if there are additives in that spirit?
Speaker: If it's a premium Australian spirit, It won't, sp right? That's the simplest answer. I've worked with a lot of different producers at sort of moderate scale, small scale, you know really passionate people who want to make amazing products. So generally speaking, if it's a premium Australian spirit, there won't be any additives that they don't tell you about.
Speaker: If it's a more in the value category, you know, if it's a very cheap product in a retail environment, look, probably probably. But if you're if you're buying something premium from ah a known distillery with a known, you know, who's making it, chances are no additives, no colours, no preservatives, good to go.
Speaker: Sweet. Thank you so much, mate. Really appreciate you jumping on on such short notice. If anyone else out there has queries or questions about anything to do with Australian spirits sort or the vagaries around regulations or production, please get in touch with us either at cheers at fullmeasure.com.au or jump on the socials, flick us a comment, and we'll do our best to answer them.
Speaker: Cheers. So a huge thank you to Sebra Iburn for for helping us out with that. I think it's massively informative, but it also speaks to what is a very complex side of the industry. We'll try and keep it light because if you're sitting out there listening to this in consumer land, you're probably thinking, well, what is this? You know, when I'm going to a bottle shop or I'm in a bar I'm having look in a bottle, why does this matter to me? But... Thankfully, I've got someone like Craig in here who can speak to this. And um before we sort of touch on Craig's process, this has been in the news recently because, you know, Australia is connected to what's happening in the international spirits market, absolutely. um And England only recently have just had the approval for their geographical identifier, um ratified so now English whiskey is its own sort of appellation and then the standards of identity which were developed by a group of distillers there have now come into effect so if you're making whiskey in England now um you want to be following the standards that have been set out and agreed upon by distillers there we but probably don't have time to really run through the complexity of that but if we think about Japan if we think about New Zealand American single malt whiskey. All of these standards of identity have been developed in recent years to give producers there a clear outline of what's permitted and how they would you know ideally prefer their producers to be making whiskey. And so it also gives consumers a great level of, I guess, comfort around how a certain whiskey is produced. They see that on a label, they go, great. um Craig, obviously you probably have thoughts of this. It's a very complex issue. Maybe if we could start by talking about your views, what you do at Bellarine, and how that sort of influences your thinking in terms of Australian whiskey.
Speaker: Absolutely. So, mean, what I love about whiskey is that it's it's pretty simple from the front end. There's not many ingredients. you've got You've got grain, you've got yeast, you've got water, you've got that interaction with copper yeah or whatever still you use and and the wood and time and the people. But what comes out the other side is quite complex. You've got over 500 organic flavor compounds that end up in a whiskey.
Speaker: So from our view, we don't feel like we need to add anything to to whiskey because there's a lot there to work with already, like the levers that we're talking about pushing and pulling. And I like that simplicity that what we're really celebrating here is the grain itself. We're celebrating grain and what happens when you ferment a liquid derived from from that grain. And then and you're celebrating also what the distiller does, the craft involved.
Speaker: with the stills and with the maturation. So what we do is we don't we don't add any additives because we just don't really see the point. yeah We like to be a bit more traditional in that respect. And look at the color. So for anyone who's watching and for anyone listening, um you know obviously jump on, jump on to... our YouTube channel and have a squeeze but if you look at the color that is naturally you you know been extracted from the cask and you've got your new make that you can hold it up against so for anyone who's not aware you know spirit comes off the steel completely clear once it's spent time in the barrel it comes out looking like this and you've got so many Australian whiskeys that are you know come out looking like that from the really high quality barrels that we use here so there's really not much need which is a point we make in the piece to add any color in after the fact because look at how it comes out looking But, and however, I also get excited when I see whiskeys that don't have that color. Yeah, exactly. So this is our Willy Wagtail, which is a third fill, Pinot Noir cast. So very little oak extraction and very light in color. But you can pack a lot of flavor into that as well. And I don't see the need of trying to make that look darker or browner. Absolutely. Because it's just a different style of whiskey. And it's just a way to see that it's a different style. And you can appreciate these different styles. So... I don't want to make it all consistent by adding caramel and making it look look pretty. I don't i don't see the point or or the need because I get excited when I see like a lemon a lemony yellow straw-colored whiskey. Oh, that's going to be interesting. Maybe it's a bourbon barrel. Maybe it's a refill cask. Maybe it's going to showcase the spirit yeah really, really well, which I like to showcase. Yeah, definitely. And that's one of the beauties, I think, of the Australian spirits landscape as well. So many other producing countries around the world as well. that are when we get firm standards of identity around labeling laws and around, you know, and it'ss it's a murky area. It's not necessarily consistent across countries, but for the most part, a lot of premium Australian whiskey producers, rum producers, brandy producers, they don't tend to to muck around with things too much post post the barrel. So you can make those assumptions. You can get an idea of what's happening in in the bottle just from looking at it. And of course, from thinking about the the producers and how they go about it. So that's one of the really beautiful... areas of the industry that I'm keen to talk more about in future. It's something we will cover. Thanks again to Seb. Jump on, have a read of of the article you put out if you want any you sort of deeper dive into how Australian standards of identity are progressing. And I know Craig will have more to say on that. I reckon when we jump back maybe in future and have you both in, we might be able to get into it because it's something that Craig wants to get involved with on a personal level and a ballerine level, which is um which is fantastic. So yeah, plenty to discuss there. We will be returning to it, I think, ah again, more in future. um Before we close up today, though I'd love to give a big shout out to a couple of other Dicillery listeners that have jumped on. Flurio Dicillery, Craig knows well. We all know them well. Gareth and Ange, producers of some of the finest single malt whiskey anywhere in this part of the world. um If you haven't, if you're not familiar with their story, jump on, have a look at our profile.
Speaker: Please, God, get out and try some of their whiskeys. They pretty much win every award they enter, although it's ah it's a fun little tussle between you guys at the top end at the moment, isn't Yeah, and and backwards. i think I think they took the trophy off them. They did, yeah. yeah i think but We've been handing it around the last last three or four years. You guys love it. And there's it sometimes there's a little bit of bling that ends up on the bellerine car or the backwards car that ah that gets trotted out, which I like. Indeed, yeah. Well, I was kind of hoping this year just to change the 2024 to 2060 for the trophy winner. But yeah yeah, that went to Fleurieu this year. Yes, it did. Congrats to them. So yeah, look, some of the some of the finest whiskey. The the story behind what they're doing there in Goua is incredible. So jump on, have a read, and get out there and taste some of their whiskey.
Speaker: ah The other distilling listing that we just put up, Puppasalt Gin, which is, for me, one of the more incredible stories of the Australian spirits industry recently. um Founded by five mates, one of them, obviously, Margot Robbie. The gin itself, I think, is very successful, very interesting. um It's a lighter style. It's got some maritime influences to it. We covered maritime gin recently.
Speaker: Hopefully, you you've had a read of that. If you haven't, jump on the website and have a look. The Salty Sea Dog from Bellarine Distillery was also included in that. So you're familiar with um certainly this maritime style gin that has really, I think, taken Australia by storm. It's what Papa Salt sort of specializes in.
Speaker: Talk us through the Salty Sea Dog. Fantastic gin. The Salty Sea Dog, yeah. And it's again, it's about the botanicals in in this one. it's not It's not the fact that we're... on the coast or by the bay, but this this is why we have these botanicals, in particular coastal saltbush. So the hero, we always choose a hero in in our gins. It's usually one or two botanicals and we try and shine a spotlight on yeah on them. So the Salty Sea Dog is about that coastal saltbush, the rosemary that we grow on on site.
Speaker: and some other other local herbs. we're also playing around with the local Angazi oysters as well amazing with the Port Arlington Muscle Tours. They come back with the shells, and we've been distilling some of them, so we may we may modify the recipe slightly going forward because really the Salty Sea Dog is a more approachable ABV of our old Dodger, our Navy Strength Gin, which is again focused on the Coastal Saltbush. Got some walnuts in there too for mouthfeel because again, i like gins with mouthfeel and spirits with mouthfeel. So yeah, the saltiness and the maratimes is coming from from the botanicals in our gin. And it's it's actually my favorite gin, that one. Wow, fantastic. There you go. So from ah the distiller's mouth ah themselves, of course, if you haven't tried you're not familiar with this style, jump out, have a try of pop of salt gins. They're the really lovely, approachable style. Salty Sea Dog and some of the other sort of, I would say, more textural, heavier styles. Very well suited to martinis and other cocktails like that.
Speaker: Have a taste if you haven't. um It's a really, really fascinating side to the industry. So... We might wrap it up there with a big thank you, of course, to Craig Michael from Ballerine coming in and joining us today. What a chat. a Mate, there's always so much we can talk about, but I really appreciate you coming in today.
Speaker: Yes, I think we do have more we need to cover. Okay, we'll get you back. We'll get you back. um In terms of events, shout out to us, luke at thefullmeasure.com.au. If you have events, send them in. We'd love to talk about them and get more people interested in them. And of course, if you enjoyed the show, feel free to like, subscribe, rate, review, wherever you get your podcasts. It's been fantastic to have you with us and we'll see you again next week. Cheers.
Speaker: The Full Measure podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. For all partnership inquiries, reach out to Craig Williams, craig at thefullmeasure.com.au. To keep up to date with everything happening in Australian spirits, visit thefullmeasure.com.au and subscribe.
