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Ep. 65: From CSA to Advocacy: How Jenny Jonak of Dragon Song Farm Is Growing More Than Just Cut Flowers
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In this episode of The Backyard Bouquet Podcast, host Jennifer Gulizia sits down with Jenny Jonak of Dragon Song Farm in Oregon’s Willamette Valley to explore how one flower farmer is blending sustainable flower farming, community-supported agriculture (CSA), and policy advocacy to create real impact.
Jenny shares how she grew her CSA flower farm from a few bouquets for friends into a thriving market business—and why she now champions water rights reform and land access for small farmers. We also dive into her innovative pressed flower jewelry, neurodivergent-friendly farm systems, and real-world tips for succeeding at farmers markets.
Whether you're a flower farmer, backyard grower, or passionate advocate for local agriculture, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and heartfelt perspective.
What You’ll Learn:
- How Jenny scaled Dragon Song Farm from a backyard garden to a full-time CSA and market farm
- Her journey as a neurodivergent farmer and systems that support her success
- Tips for creating high-impact farmers market bouquets (and maximizing cooler space!)
- The surprising legal hurdles small farms face around water rights in Oregon
- How pressed flower jewelry became a profitable and creative side of her farm business
Resources & Links Mentioned:
- Visit Jenny’s website: dragonsongfarm.com
- Follow Jenny on Instagram
- Learn more about the August Press for pressed flowers: https://www.theaugustpress.com/
- Explore Friends of Family Farmers – Oregon-based advocacy and resources: https://friendsoffamilyfarmers.org/
- Connect with NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Service): https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/
- Learn about ASCFG – Association of Specialty Cut Flower Growers: https://www.ascfg.org/
🎙️ Tune in and discover how one woman is growing more than just flowers—she’s cultivating change.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:57
Jennifer Gulizia
Welcome back to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Gulizia and I just want to thank you for tuning in today. i know that summer is full swing between harvesting, family life, and maybe a few too many weeds, but it means so much that you're here with us today.
00:01:15
Jennifer Gulizia
And if you've been enjoying this show, it would mean the world if you could take a quick second to leave a review or share this episode with a fellow flower farmer or gardener.
00:01:25
Jennifer Gulizia
It's a small way to help more people find the podcast and feel connected to this growing community. Today, I'm joined by Jenny Jonak of Dragon Song Farm in Oregon's Willamette Valley.
00:01:40
Jennifer Gulizia
Jenny is many things. She's a flower farmer, an attorney, a real estate broker, a mom of four, and an elected school board official. At her farm, she grows seasonal flowers using sustainable,
00:01:54
Jennifer Gulizia
no spray practices, she creates beautiful pressed flower jewelry and brings her flowers to markets and nonprofit events. On our conversation today, we'll be touching on so many topics from balancing farming with family life to navigating neurodivergence as a business owner to Jenny's recent work advocating for farmers at the state level.
00:02:16
Jennifer Gulizia
She's someone who's deeply invested in her land, her community and the future of small
Journey to Dragonsong Farm
00:02:21
Jennifer Gulizia
farms. And I can't wait for you to hear her story. Jenny, thanks for joining me today.
00:02:27
Jenny
Thank you so much for having me.
00:02:29
Jennifer Gulizia
Absolutely. It's such an honor. I first heard you speak on the ASCFG on their monthly, I don't know what you call the chats, but it was a forum on solar panels.
00:02:40
Jennifer Gulizia
And it was so educational. was like, I've got to get her on the podcast sometime. And so here we are.
00:02:44
Jenny
thank you. Thank you. I had a lot to learn when I first put those in. So I thought if it could help anybody else, you know, not start from scratch, that would be great.
00:02:54
Jennifer Gulizia
It was super helpful for us because we're just about to get started on a barn and we're like, how do we incorporate solar? But for today, i wanted to chat with you about your
Community Supported Agriculture and Market Expansion
00:03:04
Jennifer Gulizia
farm. And I know you wear so many different hats between being an attorney, farmer a farmer, school board chair, and even more.
00:03:13
Jennifer Gulizia
But if we go back to just your farm, can you tell us how did Dragon Song Farm come to be?
00:03:19
Jenny
Sure. So I have always loved growing things. I've grown vegetables and fruit for many years. And the flowers originally were just a combination of wanting to have just enough to make some bouquets for myself and family and friends.
00:03:36
Jenny
And also I wanted to use them to help attract more beneficials and help guard against certain pests.
00:03:40
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh.
00:03:43
Jenny
And so I was incorporating flower growing plants For example, you know, I love having marigolds with the squash and things like that to ward off squash beetles. And i was growing enough that a friend of mine had suggested I start a CSA.
00:03:58
Jenny
And so I joked that the flowers were going to start pulling their weight and pay for the seeds and the bulbs. And so about, i guess, three years ago, i i caved and agreed to do a CSA for Friends.
00:04:14
Jenny
And i enjoyed it so much that I started getting more and more fascinated with flowers because I i i love growing anything. But I think with a lot of vegetables, there are only so many different vegetables that you're going to grow. Whereas with flowers, it was this whole new world of so many different species that you could grow.
00:04:35
Jenny
And I love how everything is so different from when you harvest to how you keep them to how you incorporate them. And there was so much specialized knowledge about each one that it it, I don't know, it was like a rabbit hole that I could go down with all these different types.
00:04:51
Jenny
And I became more and more obsessed with them. And I think one thing led to another. have a little, we have a grange that's right around the corner from us and there's a little farmer's market there.
00:05:02
Jenny
And so a couple of years ago, i started selling at that grange. And then i just wound up with more flowers, then that market could really handle.
00:05:13
Jenny
And so i wound up, you know, eventually going to the Lane County Farmers Market, which is the largest market for us around here, and selling there doing some weddings and other events, continuing the CSA.
Sustainable Practices and Challenges
00:05:28
Jenny
And i've just I've just loved it. It is a lot of hard work, especially right now in July. kind feels like like we're drowning in flowers, but but I just, I love it. And I'm still fascinated with learning as much as I can about them.
00:05:42
Jennifer Gulizia
So you started out as a vegetable farmer.
00:05:45
Jenny
Yes. and And I would say maybe farmer is probably the wrong word for that. was really more of a gardener.
00:05:53
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay.
00:05:54
Jenny
wasn't doing, i wasn't doing it commercially.
00:05:58
Jennifer Gulizia
Gotcha. So it was the flowers that launched your farm.
00:06:03
Jenny
Yes.
00:06:04
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay.
00:06:04
Jenny
And I think also because with flowers, i mean, you can have a much smaller amount of land and be able to grow commercially. Whereas with vegetables and fruit, quite often, you know, you're looking at larger parcels and larger scale operations.
00:06:18
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. So how much land are you growing on?
00:06:22
Jenny
So right now it's about an acre, maybe a little bit more than that. We have 80 acres. So most of it we keep, most of it is is wooded and we're committed to never, ever clear cutting.
00:06:29
Jennifer Gulizia
Wow.
00:06:37
Jenny
property across the street from us has done that and it's their right to do that. But but we believe pretty strongly in trying to preserve as much as possible. So we have kept the rest in like natural pasture and meadow. We don't spray anything.
00:06:51
Jenny
And the goal is really, you know, we've got some some natural water features on the property, there's a small tributary to a stream that runs through the property. And there is a pond on the property. And so our goal is really to make sure that nothing is getting into the water table.
00:07:05
Jenny
And we're trying to preserve as much of the natural ecosystem as possible.
00:07:10
Jennifer Gulizia
Amazing. 80 acres is a lot to steward.
00:07:16
Jenny
It is a lot, especially when you have Himalayan blackberry on it. That's a whole fight in and of itself.
00:07:19
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, well, I know this wasn't one of my questions that I sent to you, but do you have any tips on the Blackberries? Because we have them covering our property.
00:07:29
Jenny
Yeah, you know, it's really tough. For ours, especially in the tree growth areas, we also have native poison oak.
00:07:37
Jennifer Gulizia
oh
00:07:37
Jenny
So you have to be really careful because we've, we had one person that we hired to try to clear out some of the blackberry and he wound up, I guess, it was so big, he used a chainsaw and some of it aerosolized and got into his lungs.
00:07:50
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh no.
00:07:51
Jenny
And so he wound up in the hospital for two weeks. So he would never work in the wooded areas again.
00:07:53
Jennifer Gulizia
oh no
00:07:56
Jenny
So I don't know that we have a great system for that. I think in a perfect world, you'd probably have goats and you would probably, i don't know, use them. um theyre There really aren't services around us that have goats available that could could handle our land.
00:08:13
Jenny
There's really only one person who does and it's very small scale. So I suppose if we had more time and energy, we would have our own goats, but but we're trying to not add on additional farming responsibilities.
00:08:27
Jennifer Gulizia
Of course. Tell us, what does the name dragon mean? Or dragon song? What's the inspiration behind that?
00:08:34
Jenny
Oh, so, you know, when I first started looking into this, yeah we we have little kids, and it was during the pandemic, there was a period of time where there was a period of time where the Oregon, at least in our area, the schools essentially, you know, shut down physically.
00:08:52
Jenny
So kids were learning from home. And in our case, there really wasn't a great setup. And so we found ourselves homeschooling our kids for about six months.
00:09:03
Jenny
And i was trying to, you know, come up with a curriculum for them. So we had like literature and science. And part of it was really fun. You know, we would go out, we would take a microscope, we would get pond samples, we came up with all kinds of experiments.
00:09:16
Jenny
And one of the things that I read with the kids was um Tolkien. And so When they were first talking to me about having a little farm stand, and this was before the flower farm, actually, they wanted to put out some extra strawberries and fava beans and things like that.
00:09:33
Jenny
We decided to call it Dragon Song Farm. And we wound up building this farm stand that has these little carved dragon heads on the end. Now, when we switched to flowers, we actually didn't use that stand anymore because it doesn't have enough shade.
00:09:47
Jenny
But we kept the name and the kids the kids liked that name a lot.
00:09:52
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that. How old are your kids?
Homeschooling and Farm Life Integration
00:09:55
Jenny
So I have a wide range. I've got a 33-year-old is my oldest, and she is on her own at this point in Washington and also loves gardening. And I've got 14-year-old, 12-year-old, and
00:10:09
Jennifer Gulizia
You're a busy mom. So they were really little during COVID.
00:10:11
Jenny
yes Yes, they were. it was, you know, I purposely had never homeschooled because I didn't think I would be very good at it. But it was it was actually kind of fun, you know, seeing some of the different resources and, and learning about it. And, and, you know, I have friends that homeschool, so they would give me some resources to use. And, and I didn't realize you weren't supposed to do tests or quizzes during homeschool. So we wound up doing those as well on history and science and things like that.
00:10:40
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, how funny. I homeschooled my daughter as she was entering kindergarten and COVID and I was a terrible homeschooler. I was so excited to put her back in public schools. I have a lot of respect for parents that can homeschool.
00:10:52
Jennifer Gulizia
It's not easy.
00:10:53
Jenny
Yeah, I totally agree. i i think when it's more treated like a college course where you give them the text and they write an essay, that part's really fun. But when it comes to like teaching literacy or something like that, that really wasn't something I had a good skill set for.
00:11:08
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. We did a lot of hands-on, like you were saying, but ours was like in the wintertime, we were baking and picking flowers. And I mean, it was kindergarten. What are you supposed to do in your home?
00:11:17
Jenny
yeah that's really fun.
00:11:20
Jennifer Gulizia
So when you started out, Jenny, the flowers, what was the first piece of your business? Like what did your flower farm look like in the early days? You had the
Infrastructure and Farming Innovations
00:11:28
Jennifer Gulizia
CSA.
00:11:29
Jenny
Well, I didn't have a cooler. And so that was that made it that was really difficult. And i I've read that having a flower farm without a cooler is like running a restaurant without a kitchen.
00:11:41
Jenny
And I think that's actually true because it makes you so dependent on having to move your flowers exactly when you're harvesting them, which is really tough.
00:11:43
Jennifer Gulizia
So true.
00:11:51
Jenny
So I would say that was probably my biggest challenge. In terms of infrastructure, the land that we purchased The folks there had had horses, but there was really no other infrastructure.
00:12:03
Jenny
And so, i mean, even part of the reason I got into solar is because there wasn't even electrical where we wound up, know, putting most of the the flower plantings in the garden areas.
00:12:15
Jenny
There wasn't deer fencing. had to drill a new well for irrigation. We had to put in all the irrigation drip infrastructure. to learn about the soil types. So it was quite a bit.
00:12:27
Jenny
and And we now have a couple of hoop houses, extensive deer fencing, lots of raised beds. But starting from scratch was kind of fun and also kind of daunting. Yeah.
00:12:37
Jennifer Gulizia
I can relate to all of that. As soon as our call ends today, I'm actually, i have a repair person coming to fix my cooler. We moved farm locations this last year, so I'm just starting to harvest and I harvested my first order.
00:12:50
Jennifer Gulizia
I had turned on the cooler and I come back and it's frozen over and I learned the hard way.
00:12:56
Jenny
Oh, no. now
00:12:57
Jennifer Gulizia
And so now this whole last week, I've only been able to harvest on demand because I can't store them. I have nowhere to put my flowers. And I'm like, okay, lesson learned, always have a backup AC unit because my AC And I've got an electrical piece on the CoolBot that went out that's supposed to be arriving, think, by 2 o'clock today. I'm like, this delivery can't come soon enough.
00:13:19
Jennifer Gulizia
um
00:13:19
Jenny
Yes, I think that's definitely I had a cooler malfunction earlier this year and was really surprised to learn that anywhere in the state of Oregon, it takes you about a week to get a large size AC that can power a cooler with a cool bot.
00:13:33
Jenny
And so since then, I keep one on hand and I keep an extra cool bot on hand with the idea that, you know, at least if it breaks, hopefully it's only 24
00:13:44
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally, that's so smart. I've always heard people say, keep an extra AC unit on hand. And like, oh, I'll know when it's starting to go out.
00:13:51
Jenny
yeah
00:13:51
Jennifer Gulizia
And there was no warning sign. It just went out.
00:13:55
Jenny
Yeah, we had another local flower farmer who had the same situation and and she had posted, you know, does anybody have an extra AC unit for a cool bot? And amazingly, I did. It was still new in the box, the backup that I bought.
00:14:09
Jenny
she wound up ultimately not needing it. But it was also nice because I think if you have that and someone else's goes out to be able to pitch in is great because I think I think farming is really hard work and it's so important for flower farmers to support one another as much as possible.
00:14:26
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. I couldn't agree more. I love that you were able to help someone else when they were needing it too. That's awesome. I mean, I know you said she didn't end up needing it, but just just to be able to offer.
00:14:35
Jenny
i Well, I know that you have an entire cooler. So when our cooler went down for about 24 hours, of course, I had probably 2000 peonies stored in it.
00:14:46
Jennifer Gulizia
oh
00:14:48
Jenny
And so at a certain point, you just like learn to let your breath out and think, okay, you know, flowers are by definition, they are a fleeting thing. Part of what, you know, it's the transience that that adds to the beauty.
00:15:01
Jenny
And so I just was trying to put myself in that mindset that this may happen. I'll have more flowers. There's always next year. But part of the reason I was excited to store that many peonies is I was trying different storage methods and trying I plan to you know pull them out at different stages and see how long the the vase life is with each different storage method. So next year, I'll be a little more prepared on the best way to store them.
00:15:29
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, gosh. I'm curious, what are the methods you you're trying?
00:15:33
Jenny
Yeah, so i i so one of them is basically wrapping them in saran wrap, which isn't my favorite because it uses up a lot of plastic wrap and it's actually kind of a pain.
00:15:44
Jenny
Another one, I wrap them in newspaper. Another method I did was to basically combine the two. also tried like doing the saran wrap and then a or newspaper and then putting putting them in kind of a plastic garbage sack.
00:15:58
Jenny
And so I'm going to I'm taking notes on everything and seeing how long they last. I pulled out one shipment for an event this weekend. And I kept those vases afterwards. So I can see how long does you know, how much longer are you going to last? Are you going to last six days? you going to last three days?
00:16:15
Jenny
So you know, you know, whether it's usable for an event versus actual vase life for a bouquet.
00:16:21
Jennifer Gulizia
That's awesome that you're doing that. Have you found any evidence of one working better than the other yet, or you need to wait because it's cooler?
00:16:28
Jenny
Well, I'm already a big fan of the newspaper versus the saran wrap, you know, partly because I hate using that single use plastic as much as possible. And also it's really kind of a pain to wrap them in saran wrap.
00:16:41
Jennifer Gulizia
That would take so long. Were you wrapping each individual one in saran wrap or as a bunch?
00:16:45
Jenny
No, I would bunch them and then do it. And um had my girls pitch in and they say they're kind of scarred no longer like peonies because we had so many all at once with the really hot spring we had.
00:16:57
Jenny
And so we have this ping pong table behind our barn and literally the entire ping pong table was just stacked about three feet high with peony stems.
00:17:07
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh my gosh. How many peony plants do you have?
00:17:09
Jenny
It was so ready. ah about 600 peonies.
00:17:14
Jennifer Gulizia
Wow. Did you plant all of those when you went all in on flower farming?
00:17:18
Jenny
Yes. Yes. I, you know, i I usually like when I get really interested in something, I kind of just dive in wholeheartedly. And, and peonies are something they I've always loved anyway.
00:17:29
Jennifer Gulizia
So was this your first year that you were able to harvest from them?
00:17:33
Jenny
it it it it is, it was my first year.
00:17:36
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay. But were you able to save most of them or did you lose a lot of them with the cooler malfunction?
00:17:41
Jenny
I was able, I would say some of them were probably only event quality, which again is another thing where I think events are really, really useful because a lot of times as flower farmers, we have flowers that still have some base life left to them.
00:17:55
Jenny
They don't have a week left. So you're hesitant to sell them to a customer for that purpose, but they are perfect for events.
00:18:02
Jennifer Gulizia
That's such a great point. So now in your business, you're doing events, it sounds like.
Events and Community Involvement
00:18:08
Jennifer Gulizia
Are you still doing your CSA?
00:18:11
Jenny
I'm still doing my CSA. I don't do a ton of events, but I like to pick and choose the ones I do less weddings now, mostly because there are some things I really love about events. I love how you can be creative on a larger scale than usual.
00:18:25
Jenny
I mean, I love doing arches, for example. I was super stressed when I had to do my first arch because you you often do it on site. So it's a little nerve wracking because if it doesn't turn out, you worry that you ruin someone's event.
00:18:39
Jenny
But it is a lot of fun because you can just really be large scale. So I actually love doing arches and huge floral arrangements and things like that. But I I've really kind of gravitated towards nonprofit events, partly because i think they're more flexible if you're growing everything.
00:18:57
Jenny
lot of times with weddings, like I had a wedding last June and it was a wonderful couple and I really liked them. Their palette was only blue and purple. So it was challenging because it was a time period in June, which is your low season.
00:19:11
Jenny
And I was so paranoid about whether I would have a lot of blue and purple. And so I wound up planting all these things to have a variety of blue and purple. And now, of course, I found that I like a lot of them. So I have more blue and purple than a lot of the most the flower farmers around here.
00:19:25
Jenny
But it was stressful, you know, having to have only things within that particular color palette at that particular time. So with with nonprofit events, I really like that they are usually willing to take whatever you have seasonally.
00:19:38
Jenny
And it's a great way to use those blooms that you maybe haven't sold some other way, but can still create some beauty for something. And it's for a great cause.
00:19:47
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. So when you talk about nonprofit events, are you giving away these flowers or they're still hiring you to do the work?
00:19:55
Jenny
They're usually hiring me. I've done both. But usually i try really hard not to undercut other flower farmers or florists. So I do charge what I think is a fair market rate for whatever I do.
00:20:09
Jenny
Occasionally, if it's if it's some cause that just truly can't afford it, and it would be they would have nothing otherwise, I may consider it. But most of the time I'm i'm charging a market rate.
00:20:19
Jenny
And and Usually it's something that is giving back to the community. It's a food bank or it might be um something that, you know, there was one event that supports breastfeeding mothers and connects them with resources.
00:20:34
Jenny
There was one that provides like postpartum depression resources for moms. And there are probably, you know, some arts organizations, things like that.
00:20:45
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that. That's awesome. So you're doing your CSA, the nonprofits, and then you have pressed flower jewelry. Is that right?
Pressed Flower Jewelry
00:20:55
Jenny
Yes, yes. Well, my biggest outlet is probably the farmer's market. But then I started thinking about a lot of the flower farms around us do dried flower wreaths and bouquets, and they're beautiful.
00:20:59
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay.
00:21:08
Jenny
So I tried that last year and I started drying some flowers and I found that they're hard to transport because they're very fragile. So it's it's very easy to break something.
00:21:16
Jennifer Gulizia
Mm-hmm.
00:21:18
Jenny
So I started trying to think of ways that I could preserve that moment in time with a flower. And I was also trying to brainstorm a lot of times when you sell at a market, you were very dependent on the people who live locally, because if someone is a visitor or a tourist, they're unlikely to buy fresh flowers.
00:21:38
Jenny
And so I was trying to think of something that somebody could buy that was small that they could take with them. So if we have an event in Eugene, for example, like we might we have like the world track and field championships coming up.
00:21:50
Jenny
Or maybe maybe it's the qualifying. I don't know. i um But we have these these athletic events. We have like the University of Oregon graduation. We have a lot of things that bring in tourists that often can't buy fresh flowers, but they want to get something at the market.
00:22:05
Jenny
And so I was thinking, you know, pressed flower jewelry would be something small and it would be something that can expand your your customer base because you are able to also sell to people who aren't necessarily local.
00:22:20
Jennifer Gulizia
That's such a...
00:22:20
Jenny
And that's been, it's been successful.
00:22:22
Jenny
I've really liked it. I enjoy it. I think one of the things I like the most about it is that for most of my bouquets, I'm really focused on the big, you know, focal flowers. So dahlias and peonies and ranunculus and things like that.
00:22:39
Jenny
And with the pressed flower jewelry, a lot of times you want something that's really small. So you can grow an incredible amount for jewelry in a tiny space because you're using things like pansies or GM or little daisies or maybe even some herbs and things like that.
00:23:00
Jennifer Gulizia
That's awesome. So you harvest the flowers, you dry them, and then you put them into jewelry. Is that correct?
00:23:06
Jenny
Yeah, so I harvest them and I press them and not all presses are created equal. I really like, I think it's called the August Press. She um Press. She um recently, I think for ASCFG, did a workshop on pressed flowers and she she's known for pressed flowers.
00:23:24
Jenny
And she has her own press made of birch and it's got layers of felt in between.
00:23:27
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh.
00:23:30
Jenny
And I can just use regular paper, which is really nice that I can reuse. And that press has worked really well. you can tell the difference because you usually will press for two or three weeks.
00:23:42
Jenny
And if you don't have enough pressure on your press, what you're going to find is that the flower, you might not get as much color. It won't be perfectly flat. You also, it will look almost a little shriveled as opposed to more, more of like what it looked like going in, except that dried color.
00:24:01
Jennifer Gulizia
Fascinating. Well, I'll have to get the link from you for that power press.
00:24:04
Jenny
Yes, it's a lot of fun.
00:24:06
Jennifer Gulizia
And then we can share that in the show notes today.
00:24:09
Jenny
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I mean, I've done it in other ways, too. I also have done it in frames, you know, to kind of create like a ah ah picture. But those are a lot more difficult to bring to market. So the jewelry has really been nice because I can fit, you know, a huge amount of jewelry in a shoebox and just take it with me in in my cargo van and it takes up almost no room.
00:24:30
Jennifer Gulizia
That's awesome. I love that idea. That's such a creative use. I mean, it just shows how many different avenues local flowers can be moved. Because like you hear about local flowers and you first think, oh, a CSA or wedding flowers, but there's pressed art jewelry, like you just said. And then even with pressed flowers, there's the frame prints or there's jewelry.
00:24:50
Jennifer Gulizia
mean, there's...
00:24:51
Jenny
People posters. They do all sorts of things with them. For me, I just wound up picking something that was small and easy to transport the final product. But it's it's a lot of fun. I don't think it's that difficult to learn or to work with.
00:25:06
Jenny
And it was something that I didn't feel like I was undercutting any of the other flower farmers because nobody else was doing it
00:25:15
Jennifer Gulizia
That's such a great thing. Like when you talk about a niche market that's so specialized and different than everyone else that I'm sure the market loves it too. Are you getting positive feedback and
00:25:25
Jenny
We get really positive
Market Strategies and Consumer Engagement
00:25:26
Jenny
feedback. So that's been great. And, and, you know, i i think I was the first person at our farmer's market to do it. So I had to go through the approval process and you have to, you know, tell them your suppliers and what percentage is the grown product and things like that.
00:25:42
Jennifer Gulizia
Interesting. So the market actually is tracking what percentage of the product is coming.
00:25:46
Jenny
Yeah. So with something fresh, like our flower bouquets, a hundred percent have to be grown by us. And I, I really like that challenge because I think if it's something like 25 or 50%, I don't know, that's really not the same. And so it really forces you to think as a flower farmer about all the different aspects of things that go into a bouquet.
00:26:05
Jenny
With things that, you know, are more of a finished product, it's not possible. So for example, if someone's selling jam, they're obviously probably not glassblowing their own jars and things like that.
00:26:18
Jenny
And so the jewelry was the same.
00:26:18
Jennifer Gulizia
Sure.
00:26:20
Jenny
They were OK. You know, the chain, for example, I don't I don't make the chains. I'm not a blacksmith. So they want to make sure that it's a minimum of 25 percent that comes from product that you have grown on your farm.
00:26:34
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay, that makes sense.
00:26:35
Jenny
And you have to show pictures and like, you know, your volume calculator, you know, however you came up to prove that it was at least 25 percent.
00:26:43
Jennifer Gulizia
Gotcha, that makes sense. So let's talk about a little, your farmer's market a little bit, because it sounds like it's, you said it's the biggest part of your business. So it's obviously very successful for you.
00:26:53
Jenny
I love our farmer's market. It has really good management. And you really appreciate that if you've done different markets. think their advertising is great. They're really consistent.
00:27:05
Jenny
They have like a, you know, intricate set of rules that they go over with every single farmer. So, you know, you've really got consistency.
00:27:14
Jenny
And they're usually always trying to rethink, you know, how can we get better exposure for the farmers? So this past year, for example, they redid the layout at the market and it was really nice because the way they redid it, a lot more of us now had more of a corner setup, which is terrific because it enables you to show off a lot more product in the same amount of space.
00:27:39
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, that's really neat. So I wasn't even thinking about that, but our market only has a few corner spots, but that does make a big difference if you have two sides of your booth to be able to show.
00:27:48
Jenny
Yeah, they started basically doing them all in like little islands. So that basically, you know, it probably tripled or quadrupled the amount of corner spaces. And, you know, if you've ever been like right next to somebody else, I mean, now it feels much more spacious because you're also not butting up right against another vendor who no matter how much you like, you know, it means that you have to keep your product back a little more.
00:28:13
Jennifer Gulizia
Sure. Oh, that's really neat. Tell us a little bit about your setup and how you successfully run your farmers market, if you don't mind.
00:28:21
Jenny
Oh, sure. So I think for for me, I always really like to make sure the product holds well at the market. And so shade, I think, is really important if you're a flower farmer.
00:28:32
Jenny
And so two things I would recommend for anyone doing a market is, you know, we have easy up canopies or the equivalent that almost everybody uses. a lot of the flower farmers, I think virtually all of them have easy up canopies, which was a product i hadn't seen before.
00:28:49
Jenny
But it basically cantilevers off of the easy up legs and just creates, you know, ah a couple more feet of shade, which is important because you can then keep your tables right at the edges of your booth, but your products are still in shade.
00:29:03
Jenny
I also bring an umbrella with a base. So as the sun moves, I have something that's really easy to move to make sure that everything's always in shade.
00:29:12
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, that's a good idea.
00:29:14
Jenny
You know, if it's really hot, I will bring a cooler of ice and add ice to the buckets as the day goes on just to try to keep things cool.
00:29:23
Jenny
Other than that, I would say with farmer's market, it's a very different aesthetic than growing for weddings. And so I think if you're flower farmer, unless you're really large, you kind of have to, for me, I had to try a bunch of different things to see what I liked best.
00:29:42
Jenny
But farmer's market, if you're just bringing pastels to farmer's market, you're going to have a pretty limited number of buyers. Bright colors are really what draw draw people in.
00:29:53
Jenny
And so if you're growing for market, I think that's probably important. Think about your bright colors. So when I'm crop planning for the next year, I'm thinking about, OK, not just what particular species of flowers I'm going to grow, but what are my intended outlets?
00:30:08
Jenny
And so what are my color combinations going to be? And what the particular flower is, I'm not that particular about recipes that way, but I do pay attention to what what colors am I going to use?
00:30:19
Jenny
What are other farmers at the market doing and combining that are different than I am? And what am I doing differently? And how do I keep that up? And so I think it's a combination of what you enjoy growing as well as what makes you stand out at the market.
00:30:37
Jennifer Gulizia
I like that idea, the mentality of what's going to make me stand out. And the bright colors is such a spot on thing because I remember I used to only grow pastels because I was selling for weddings and I did a community table at the market and I barely sold anything, but it was all though like whites and blushes and people were like, well, do you have anything brighter?
00:30:56
Jennifer Gulizia
And I'm like, what do you mean? These are gorgeous, but it's not not the same customer.
00:30:59
Jenny
Yeah. Yeah. So for example, I love Lizzie and this, it's one of my absolute favorite flowers and it sells at market, but I mean, I remember the first time last year when I had all this Lizzie and this and I thought, oh my gosh, this is just gonna, you know, run out the door.
00:31:17
Jenny
Wallets are going to jump out of people's pockets for these. And it's not because it's more of a wedding flower. And i think some people at market like it, but, you know, less less I would say.
00:31:29
Jenny
would say also for market, I think making sure that you're not undercutting other flower farmers, because if you are pricing really low, of course you're going to sell.
00:31:36
Jennifer Gulizia
Mm-hmm.
00:31:40
Jenny
But at what cost? You're really undervaluing your entire market. And so I think really trying to figure out, you know, what, how much do these things cost? How much is, labor how much labor is going into this?
00:31:52
Jenny
And what's a ah ah fair price that's fair to me as well as to the customer? And trying to take that into account and and really look at at that. And so one thing I've looked at is, you know, how can I create farmer's market bouquets with less labor? And I can't remember if it's Lenny Larkin or somebody else that's talked about reducing the number of different flower species you grow.
00:32:17
Jenny
And that's helped a lot between this year and last year. So instead of growing, you know, 60 or 70 different types of flowers, I now keep a sheet, which is called my folk focus flowers.
00:32:29
Jenny
And for each month, I have, you know, literally just two to three, these are the focus flowers. And I'm really focused on that. And my goal is to create mixed bouquets that have a limited number of of different types of flowers in them. Because if you're doing mixed bouquets that have 10 or 12 different flowers, it's going to take you a lot of labor to put that together.
00:32:52
Jenny
I particularly love things that will sell at market in straight bunches. I know in a lot of parts of the country, you can sell almost everything in straight bunches. But at our market, it's really competitive for flower farmers. We have a lot of fantastic flower farms.
00:33:07
Jenny
And so mixed bouquets are are kind of a must for probably 80% what we sell. So I'm always interested in, you know, dahlias, for example, look different enough that you can just have straight bunches of dahlias and people are pretty happy with that.
00:33:22
Jenny
But there are only probably a half dozen things that I think will sell in straight bunches as well at our market. So just try to think about what are things that I can grow that will sell in straight bunches because that will reduce my labor and time.
00:33:35
Jenny
And if not, what are combinations that I can put together that I can put together quickly in bouquets?
00:33:43
Jennifer Gulizia
That's such great advice. When you talk about the standalone flowers, what flowers besides dahlias do well for you at the market that you don't want
00:33:49
Jenny
So ranunculus, for example, I think that's probably hands down the most popular flower I grow. People, if you're going to grow pastels, spring actually can accommodate a fair number of pastels.
00:34:03
Jenny
The more you go on through the year, the more you need the brighter colors. And in fall, people really gravitate towards those pumpkin and fall colors. And so learning that also helped a lot with crop planning. So for example, for mom's,
00:34:17
Jenny
I love some of the beautiful like lavender heirloom mums and things like that. But you really want your bread and butter mums for November to be Thanksgiving type colors if you want to sell bouquets.
00:34:29
Jenny
So I would say in terms of straight bunches, things that sell well would be dahlias, peonies, lisianthus to some extent, ranunculus, tulips.
00:34:44
Jenny
Those are the ones right off the top of my head.
00:34:46
Jennifer Gulizia
So the focal flowers primarily.
00:34:48
Jenny
Yeah.
00:34:51
Jenny
Yeah.
00:34:51
Jennifer Gulizia
That's good advice.
00:34:51
Jenny
So I love scoop scabiosa, for example, but I haven't had a single customer that seems really excited about it yet. So that's one that I trialed this year, but I'm not sure if I'll grow it again because I love it. But the stems are thin enough that to get the volume, I have to put a fair number in and the plugs are fairly expensive. So if customers aren't really excited about it, then have to think, is that space better dedicated to something else?
00:35:17
Jenny
And one thing I do is towards the end of the summer, I send out a survey link to all my customers and I ask them and I tell them, hey, you know, I'm i'm starting to crop plan for next year. i would really love for you to share with me what was the most exciting to you. What did you like? What did you not like?
00:35:35
Jenny
And I create a survey where they rank different things and I can really get a sense on a scale of like one to 10. How much did you like this flower, that flower? And I'll put pictures because people might not remember what the flower is.
00:35:48
Jennifer Gulizia
That's brilliant. I love that. Are you collecting names and emails at the farmers market or is that just your CSA?
00:35:48
Jenny
And that's been hugely helpful too.
00:35:56
Jenny
don't, it's, it's been kind of organic. but So, and you know, for when they sign up for a CSA, they go on our mailing list. And then on the website, we have a mailing list sign up.
00:36:07
Jenny
And then other than that, people, people will hear about it through Facebook or Instagram, but I don't keep like a list at market itself.
00:36:17
Jennifer Gulizia
Perfect. Well, thank you for sharing that.
00:36:19
Jenny
Yeah,
00:36:19
Jennifer Gulizia
That was a lot of really great advice on the farmer's markets. I loved your tip about bringing a cooler of ice also, because sometimes it gets so hot and the last thing you want is your flowers to start looking like they're wilting at the end of the day.
00:36:32
Jenny
it's awful. i would Yeah, and I would say bring snips. And if something looks wilty, it is actually better for your bouquet to have one less flower than to have a bouquet that seems tainted because it's got one wilted flower in it.
00:36:46
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. That's a great idea. Are you finding that you do best with a wrapped bouquet or are you selling them in vases? What works best for your presentation of them?
00:36:56
Jenny
You know, my first year i did vases and it was such a pain to transport. And so I vowed never again. I've pretty much stuck to that. I do wrapped bouquets. And, you know, i I wrap them in paper, transport them in a bucket.
00:37:14
Jenny
I have the smallest size of cargo van that you can have because I don't like driving big vehicles that much. And so for me, the key is each bucket has to have a certain, has to be at least $150 of value at the market, sales value.
00:37:31
Jenny
And so I really think focusing on like, How much value can I put in this bucket? Whether you're selling $15 bouquets or 25 or 30 or 40, making sure that you're not bringing a bucket that, for example, is worth $75, because that's kind of a waste of space if you can only fit a certain number of buckets in your van.
00:37:50
Jennifer Gulizia
That's a great mentality. Thank you for sharing that.
00:37:53
Jenny
Oh, sure.
00:37:54
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay, let's talk about some of your legislative advocacy that you've done.
Water Rights and Legislative Advocacy
00:38:00
Jennifer Gulizia
i know that you've been active, especially around water rights and land access for farmers.
00:38:06
Jennifer Gulizia
Can you share more about that and why this matters?
00:38:10
Jenny
Sure. So we, starting about two years ago in Lane County, our water master here decided to send out some enforcement letters to various small farms. I can't remember how many were targeted, maybe 30, 33 farms.
00:38:30
Jenny
And I know a couple of them, including one that that had to shut down her farm.
00:38:37
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh,
00:38:37
Jenny
And it was, she was using about a thousand gallons a day, half an acre. She was growing mostly food and she had a farm stand and a CSA and she was feeding, I don't know, dozens of families off that half acre.
00:38:53
Jenny
It was not a lot of water and learning about that and starting to read about the actual, you know, water rights laws made me super surprised. And I think a lot of people probably don't realize,
00:39:07
Jenny
There are few things that are unique about Oregon. We we have um a system where if I have a swimming pool, I can use, I can fill up the swimming pool.
00:39:19
Jenny
I can drain it two days later. I can fill it up again. i can use 15,000 gallons a day for a commercial use, like a car wash or anything like that, I can use 5,000 gallons a day.
00:39:30
Jenny
If I have livestock, I can use an unlimited amount. But if I grow fruits or vegetables or flowers, I am not allowed to irrigate that for commercial purposes at all. This was the law as it existed before this most recent legislative session.
00:39:46
Jennifer Gulizia
This is if you have a well, correct?
00:39:46
Jenny
So
00:39:49
Jennifer Gulizia
Or is this any water?
00:39:49
Jenny
That's correct. So if you were if you were on the city water system, you would be fine. But most people farming are are going to be on wells.
00:39:56
Jennifer Gulizia
Right.
00:39:57
Jenny
And so this this would be for exempt wells. You could use it for all these other purposes. So for example, if I wanted to start a dairy farm, I could i could use you know a million gallons a day. There's no limit on it.
00:40:11
Jenny
But they as the law existed before this most recent legislative session, I could grow fruits and vegetables and irrigate up to half an acre, but I couldn't sell any of them. The minute I sold any of them, I was in violation of the law.
00:40:25
Jenny
And so it was Friends for Family Farmers, which I think is such a terrific organization. They had a legislative committee that they were seeking farmer members for. So i I volunteered to do that, and i have worked on that for the past year, and I've really loved it. It's probably one of the most rewarding you know nonprofit things that I do.
00:40:47
Jenny
And what they do is they really try to amplify the voice of small farms. And we know that large farms already have a voice through the Farm Bureau, but there was really not a lot of voice from small farmers. And so they they work on trying to make sure that that voice gets integrated into the legislative process.
00:41:09
Jenny
And I know, for example, farm stands has been a recent, you know, controversy. Land access in general, I think is really tough for farmers. And I have a real estate broker's license. I've had one for over 15 years.
00:41:23
Jenny
And I've worked with clients who look for farm property. And it's very difficult because very few properties come with groundwater rights.
00:41:34
Jenny
And there even the ones that have water rights, many of them are never sold on the open market. So we know that you know farming is an extremely capital intensive profession.
00:41:45
Jennifer Gulizia
Yes.
00:41:46
Jenny
And so it's not surprising that a lot of times it winds up being generational. You know, a lot of people, their father, their parents, their grandparents were farmers, because otherwise who could afford the land, the tractors, you know, all that infrastructure is incredibly expensive.
00:42:03
Jenny
And there's no real way to make it pencil out. And so if you're a younger farmer trying to get into the, you know, into farming, you're really, it's very, very difficult if you don't essentially inherit those things or have some ways, way to access them affordably.
00:42:22
Jenny
And as, you know, as real estate prices have gone up, land has gone up and it's gone up. i think Friends of Family Farmers has said like triple. I think farmland here is, is, has tripled in price compared to the national average.
00:42:39
Jenny
And so it makes it, I think it makes it difficult. And one thing that surprised me is that We talk a lot about planning, you know, with how subdivisions are going to work and zoning and things like that.
00:42:52
Jenny
But there aren't usually many discussions that local elected or governmental groups have about where's our local food going to come from and how do we plan for that?
00:43:04
Jenny
That's usually not a question that I'm hearing.
00:43:08
Jenny
So i think I think trying to keep it accessible and and make sure that the next generation of farmers can actually get into it is really important.
00:43:08
Jennifer Gulizia
i
00:43:19
Jenny
I guess, you know, some of the other things that I was fascinated to learn is 88% of all wells in Oregon account for only 4% of water usage. of water are usage
00:43:28
Jennifer Gulizia
wow
00:43:30
Jenny
So we're talking about you know a lot of these exempt domestic wells in the country that are really using a very modest amount of water. 82% of our groundwater is used by irrigated agriculture, which is the large farms with water rights, although they only make up 7% of wells.
00:43:50
Jenny
So I think one thing that we need to look at is we've got, in some ways, I think a very antiquated water system where we have use it or lose it. And so we have these big farms that a lot of times were granted water rights in a time period where they just issued huge water rights. So, you know, you know, the average irrigation is maybe an inch.
00:44:13
Jenny
They might be have given they might have been given water rights that would be, you know, a foot or a foot and a half as opposed to an inch.
00:44:24
Jenny
And so they wind up having, you know, that's why sometimes you just see these, these overhead, like flood irrigation systems.
00:44:24
Jennifer Gulizia
It's,
00:44:32
Jenny
And it's, it's a system where I think it's, it's very problematic in a lot of ways, because we haven't really prioritized as a state, what water uses are the most important for Oregonians? Is it,
00:44:45
Jenny
Important for me to be able to fill my swimming pool or is it more important for me to be able to grow food to feed the community? Because right now there's more leeway given to the swimming pool with exempt domestic wells.
00:44:59
Jennifer Gulizia
That's crazy. i had no idea about that part. We are in a unique situation here in Hood River because we have an irrigation district and all sizes of properties that fall on farming land have access.
00:45:12
Jennifer Gulizia
So like my last property where I leased land,
00:45:15
Jenny
That's terrific.
00:45:16
Jennifer Gulizia
We had it, it is like lose it or or use it or lose it. Because when we were in our search for properties, we found one parcel that was actually really affordable. But the reason it was affordable was because 20 years ago, the owners had given up their water rights.
00:45:29
Jennifer Gulizia
So the property had no water access. And we were like, oh, well, we're not going for that.
00:45:32
Jenny
Yep.
00:45:34
Jennifer Gulizia
But we have 17 and a half acres of water rights. They do it by acreage. And then I think there's a water amount also. And I don't know what ours is. You mentioned a water master.
00:45:47
Jennifer Gulizia
For those listening, can you explain what a water master is?
00:45:47
Jenny
Yes.
00:45:49
Jennifer Gulizia
I think a lot of people probably aren't familiar with that.
00:45:50
Jenny
Sure. Sure. So each different county um and several counties may be combined. There are water masters throughout the state. And the water master is the person who basically oversees water use within a particular. So ours, for example, I think does Lane County, Lynn County and Benton County.
00:46:09
Jenny
And that person would be responsible for overseeing enforcement of the water laws, as well as you know, let's say, for example, a lot of water rights are surface water rights at the individual level.
00:46:22
Jenny
And so let's say that it's an unusually dry year, and there's not as much water in that surface reservoir as there usually is, the water master would be responsible for, you know, working with others to to make sure that those amount of that amount of water doesn't exceed what is healthy for, you know, for the the surface waters. And so sometimes that may involve having to say, hey, you know,
00:46:54
Jenny
you even though you have water rights, you're gonna be restricted in this particular month. And so what comes into play there is whether you've got what's called senior water rights or junior water rights.
00:47:04
Jenny
And senior water rights, which are also referred to as like the good water rights, were granted in Oregon prior to 1955. And so if you have water rights from before 1955, you usually, those are the best water rights, not just because they tended to also have have be much more generous but because you will take seniority. So if there's a really dry year, then water will be restricted in reverse order of when you got the water rights. So the person who got it in, say, 1950 will take seniority over someone who got it in 1980.
00:47:38
Jennifer Gulizia
Interesting.
00:47:40
Jenny
And the water rights travel with the property, not with the person.
00:47:44
Jennifer Gulizia
Gotcha. Okay. We've been learning a little bit about Oregon water masters and water rights on our new property because across the river is Washington. We're on the border of Oregon and Washington here.
00:47:56
Jenny
Yeah.
00:47:56
Jennifer Gulizia
And a lot of contractors in our area come from Washington. And we have we know people that do these amazing ponds. And in Washington, you can just build a pond. But in Oregon, you have to get approval from the water master of your area.
00:48:12
Jennifer Gulizia
And we want to build a pond because we have such terrible, terrible drainage that we have like pooling water for about nine months of the year on certain parts of our property where we can't do anything.
00:48:18
Jenny
more
00:48:22
Jennifer Gulizia
We can't even build on our property until we figure out some of the drainage issues. And I can't get our local water master to call me back yet, but I had no idea that you have to actually have approval from the water master to be able to even put a pond in Oregon.
00:48:30
Jenny
Oh,
00:48:39
Jenny
Yeah, and i suspect with some counties, you may need multiple approvals as well. So gets really tricky. There are definitely people here who have started to put in irrigation ponds, and there are different rules. i think our water master has what I'm told is a slightly different interpretation of some of that.
00:49:00
Jenny
so that, that's interesting. I mean, we have, I think a pond that is seasonal.
00:49:06
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay. Wow.
00:49:08
Jenny
Uh, it's, it's full most of the year. It's a little less than two acres. So it's a very large
Land Access and Support for Farmers
00:49:13
Jenny
pond that was built as an irrigation pond in the 1950s or sixties.
00:49:14
Jennifer Gulizia
wow
00:49:19
Jenny
So one thing we are, will be applying for is, is permission to be able to use that. But, but we wound up, just trying to look at water resilience in several different ways. So we have a rainwater catchment system that feeds into an underground cistern and we'll be acquiring additional tanks, but you can put those rainwater catchment systems off any metal roof.
00:49:43
Jenny
And also you can actually build them off high tunnel roofs too, but it's the storage that is so incredibly expensive.
00:49:47
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, interesting.
00:49:51
Jennifer Gulizia
Yes.
00:49:53
Jenny
But I think, you know, going back to the water rights, I mean, one thing that is really interesting to me, I'm Korean American, so I always find it really kind of fascinating that, you know, when Oregon became a state, which was 1859, if you were of Asian descent or black descent, you could not own real estate.
00:50:13
Jenny
That was that was the law.
00:50:15
Jennifer Gulizia
Seriously?
00:50:15
Jenny
And seriously, you had alien land laws that prevented Asians on the West Coast from purchasing or leasing land from 1913 until the end of World War II.
00:50:28
Jenny
After that, you had redlining. So you had a lot of obstacles in place where anyone of color had a really hard time even even accessing land. And so to me, there's something really questionable about having a first-in-time water rights system that's established during a time period when a non-white could not easily own land or access land.
00:50:52
Jenny
Like if you had that in any other part of our land system, like say, for example, in land ownership of residential property or, or you know tenancy property,
00:51:03
Jenny
That would have a huge impact. And we do see some impact where to this day, I think 95% of farmers identify as white. You've got less than 2% are Black, less than 1% are Asian American.
00:51:15
Jenny
And I think unless we create ways to to access water, you're going to see some of those discrepancies continue because farming is so generational.
00:51:26
Jennifer Gulizia
It really is. It's especially around where I live. There's so many third and fourth and fifth and even six year generational farms. But I think even some of those are struggling now with some of Oregon laws.
00:51:37
Jenny
Yeah, I mean, there's a struggle. for Definitely. There's a struggle across the board where I think we need to think about how our political systems can take into account the needs of farmers.
00:51:48
Jenny
But then I think we also have to think about how to how to young farmers, how to first generation farmers access what they need to have a successful farm. And so that's that's why I'm so fascinated by, you know, land access, water rights and just the legislative process with advocacy.
00:52:08
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that. Thank you for all of your wisdom and what you've shared here. For those that are listening that are newer to farming or land ownership, what is one thing that they really need to understand about the water access or land use?
00:52:22
Jenny
I think before you purchase a piece of property, making sure that you understand what the rights are, what are its zoning? you know If you plan to have a farm stand, are you allowed to put one on there?
00:52:35
Jenny
If you want to have a barn, ah ah you know are you able to build it? And I will say that most of the people working you know in water master departments or just the building departments, they want to help you.
00:52:47
Jenny
And so before you rent or purchase a piece of farmland, go down to the department and and ask them, you know, what are the things you can do and not do? What are your plans?
00:52:59
Jenny
And they can help guide you through that. Friends of Family Farmers also has some amazing resources for people looking to buy or rent land. I think they have a whole division of people that help connect farmers with land resources.
00:53:14
Jennifer Gulizia
That's just if you're in Oregon, though, is that correct?
00:53:17
Jenny
I'm not sure. I know it is in Oregon. I don't know if it, if it goes beyond that. I think you're probably right.
00:53:24
Jennifer Gulizia
Okay. know the USDA has lots of resources available for people that are looking.
00:53:32
Jenny
They do. and They do. NCRS is really great. We have, we have like the Rogue Farm Corps. We have so many different nonprofits that really help connect farmers, especially,
00:53:44
Jenny
disadvantaged farmers or beginning farmers with different resources. NCRS, what that? The National Conservation, re they they they are terrific. Every single county, I think, has one of those offices or has some personnel.
00:53:59
Jenny
And they can also like show up on site, walk your land, and tell you you know about different resources that they might be able to connect you with.
00:54:09
Jennifer Gulizia
Thank you for sharing that. In our conversations, as we were emailing back and forth before, as we were preparing for this episode, you mentioned being neurodivergent and that many other farmers likely are as well.
Neurodivergence and Farming Practices
00:54:22
Jennifer Gulizia
Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it has helped you with the way you structure your farm and your business?
00:54:30
Jenny
Sure. I think this came up at some point during a farm get together that I went to and someone else was talking about being neurodivergent and was referencing surveys showing the high level of neurodivergence among farmers, which makes sense in a way because a lot of times professions that are self-employed often will attract neurodivergent personalities.
00:54:55
Jenny
And for myself, i I have autism and ADHD, which is kind of a weird combination because some of the things seem at odds with each other. and it definitely, the ADHD is probably why i like doing a million different things at once. And it probably also is why I just like to jump full into something.
00:55:16
Jenny
I find that organizational systems, if you have any of that type of personality are really, really important. So I have made the mistake before, for example, of purchasing the same set of plugs multiple times because I didn't keep track enough to realize that I'd already ordered all these Delphinium plugs.
00:55:34
Jenny
So I think coming up with an organizational system for what you're going to do in advance and and really trying to stick with it, for me,
00:55:45
Jenny
That's been really important. So i I have a spreadsheet that I track all of our different sales from all the different outlets. And that's been really helpful from market for markets from one year to another. So I can track here's how much was sold last year. So here's how much I'm likely to have to do.
00:56:02
Jenny
I think having some sort of routines where, you know, for example, if your market's on Saturday, that Friday you're probably going to be making bouquets, knowing what your harvest days are. you set up a CSA, setting it up at the opposite time of the week so you don't have everything coming in at once is really good.
00:56:20
Jenny
If you are autistic or introverted or, you know, have any of a number of other different neurodivergences, you probably want to be conscious of the fact that working with people, especially in an outward facing role such as farmer's market, is going to be potentially more tiring for you.
00:56:40
Jenny
than neurotypical person. And so you probably want to build that in. think it's probably one reason as well that I wound up preferring nonprofit events to weddings, because I think with weddings, you really have to be a lot more outward facing and have a lot of different meetings with brides. And that for me was probably a little bit overwhelming.
00:57:03
Jenny
So I think trying to think of, you know, what what are the parts that you struggle with? and trying to find systems, or maybe it's even people, maybe you're hiring somebody who's a really terrific salesperson, who can then do that part of the business for you.
00:57:20
Jenny
But I think being conscious of it is is good.
00:57:20
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that.
00:57:22
Jenny
And I think being conscious of it in a way that doesn't attach to any particular kind of stigma, because we know that we know that among women in particular, for example, a lot of women went undiagnosed for for a long time, because a lot of What we think of as ADHD or autism was based on on male models.
00:57:44
Jenny
And so I think understanding yourself so that you can be more sympathetic to yourself and give yourself a break and really try to work with what you do best.
00:57:56
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that advice. That's so important for us to all give ourselves grace, I think.
00:58:02
Jenny
Yes.
00:58:03
Jennifer Gulizia
Especially so many people who are probably listening to this podcast are either one-person show or they have maybe a small skeleton crew helping them.
00:58:13
Jennifer Gulizia
There's very few flower farmers, I think, that have a full team unless they're growing on a large scale, because so many people, especially listening to this podcast, are growing on quarter acre, a half acre, or maybe just their backyard and trying to do it all themselves. And like you said, I was laughing when you mentioned the delphiniums, because the other day i was going through this time year, I always look at my seeds that I need to order for the next year.
00:58:36
Jennifer Gulizia
And I found like 10 packets of the same seeds. And I'm like, from 10 different sources, I'm like, why did I order the same thing?
00:58:40
Jenny
yeah
00:58:43
Jennifer Gulizia
And now I've got a system in place where I track what I'm ordering. But back then I didn't. And it leads to this overwhelm or unnecessary spending or burnout. So that was great advice about creating those structures and systems because I'm definitely like you. I'm going 5 million miles a minute and doing too many things at once.
00:59:03
Jennifer Gulizia
And I think we used to think that was like a good thing, but now it's like, okay, how do I kind of scale back? And Lenny actually told me, she was like, pick three things this year, Jen, and get really good at those and get systems in place for those three things instead of trying to do so much at once that I'm going to not do anything well.
00:59:20
Jenny
I think that's good. I mean, I think that like breaking things into smaller chunks, like yeah I think i've i've I've heard the say you can do it all. You just can't do it all at the same time.
00:59:33
Jennifer Gulizia
Yes.
00:59:34
Jenny
is really good advice.
00:59:34
Jennifer Gulizia
yes
00:59:35
Jenny
And so figuring out, okay, this year, you know, I really want to, so for example, for this year, I had like three focus crops that I wanted to get better at. Like Dalios was one of them.
00:59:46
Jenny
I was like, I have darn it. I'm going to, I'm going to master Dalios. And, you know, last year ranunculus was, was the big thing I wanted to focus on, but also it can be putting those types of systems in place.
00:59:59
Jenny
and And yeah, I mean, I will say Farmer Bailey's been so nice at me having to email and saying, I'm sorry, I ordered the delphinium three times.
01:00:07
Jenny
Can I please cancel or change it out with with this thing? So you're you're absolutely right. Like having those kinds of systems in place will save you time and money. And a lot of flower farms and that I know are really great at seeding crops. And I think that's fabulous. It'll save you so much money.
01:00:25
Jenny
But sometimes... The organization required to add that on to be able to seed something and have it have your plugs ready by a particular time. If that's not something that you're at that stage, I think get the plugs.
01:00:39
Jenny
Don't stress about it. It doesn't mean you're not a real farmer. and And figure out what works for you. I'm not that great at succession seeding. It's one of the things I struggle with the most.
01:00:50
Jenny
And so just knowing that, recognizing it, and and building that into your crop system. Yeah.
01:00:59
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that advice. This year, I actually ordered a lot more plugs than I ever have because I had a smaller greenhouse with our move. And I was like, I'm either going to be limited to how much I can grow because I can only have space for so many seed trays or i can order in the plugs and not having to baby some of these seeds for ten eight or 10 weeks.
01:01:15
Jenny
yeah
01:01:17
Jennifer Gulizia
I have so much more planted by myself. My husband even said, how'd you get so much planted this year? was like, well, ordering in plugs saved me so much time and energy that Versus that $7 or $5 seed packet, spending $70 on a tray was well worth the investment.
01:01:32
Jenny
Right.
01:01:34
Jennifer Gulizia
And I mean, not all trays are even $70, but it definitely was a mindset shift for me that, okay, I don't have to do it all sometimes.
01:01:43
Jenny
Yeah. And I think there are certain crops like I am never going to grow lisanthas from seed ever.
01:01:48
Jennifer Gulizia
No.
01:01:49
Jenny
and And I'm OK with that. I'm at peace with that. More power to the person that can do it.
01:01:52
Jennifer Gulizia
It totally... Absolutely. Well, in terms of trying to do too many things, I had a very long list of questions for you. And I know we're at an hour already.
Planning and Prioritizing Farm Tasks
01:02:04
Jennifer Gulizia
So I'm going to skip over a few of them. And i think I'll have to save them and invite you back on the podcast for a future episode.
01:02:10
Jenny
yes
01:02:12
Jennifer Gulizia
But I would like to know, is there anything that you're especially looking forward to or experimenting with for the rest of this season?
01:02:21
Jenny
So I'm like you, I'm actually in the process of planning to build a barn that's flower oriented.
01:02:28
Jennifer Gulizia
Awesome.
01:02:29
Jenny
And so trying to figure that out, like what what what's it going to, and I had a long process because the spot where I wanted to locate it was listed as as potential wetlands and so that's another thing that's like a whole other thing that most people don't know about it won't actually be wetlands but it could be listed as potential wetlands and then you have to go through a process of if it's if it's small enough you like like if it's a high tunnel which is a very small volume building you can probably go ahead and get it permitted anyway but for a barn
01:02:42
Jennifer Gulizia
and
01:03:06
Jenny
I had to basically hire you know an environmentalist who on a particular list of people who could come out and do a survey and do soil testing and get permission. So I finally have that lined up and I have the barn actually on order. And now I'm doing all the fun things that you're probably going through, which is how do I get my foundation in? What kind of foundation am I going to use? um do I get electrical there?
01:03:31
Jenny
So I have backup because solar... unless you put in a big battery system, isn't going to run a cooler overnight and things like that.
01:03:39
Jennifer Gulizia
Oh, that's so good to know about the cooler. So a solar cannot power a cooler overnight.
01:03:44
Jenny
Well, it you'd have to have a battery system. And so the battery system is actually more expensive and more failure prone, from my understanding, than the panel's.
01:03:46
Jennifer Gulizia
OK.
01:03:55
Jenny
And so currently I have things set up to the solar panels that just need to run during the day.
01:03:55
Jennifer Gulizia
Interesting.
01:04:00
Jenny
Things like all the fans for our high tunnels are all connected to the solar. And if it's too cloudy that I'm not getting good power, it doesn't really matter because then it's not too hot in the high tunnels. But for the barn, that's the kind of thing where I really want to make sure I've got 100% power all the time available, even if I can use solar to offset a lot of that.
01:04:21
Jennifer Gulizia
Gotcha. Okay. That's so helpful. Well, that's really exciting to be planning out your bar and you're a few steps ahead of me. we We're still finalizing.
01:04:29
Jenny
so but I don't know about that. But I keep trying to think like, do I want to drain? Do I not want to drain? and You know, so you you wind up out you wind up kind of worrying that you're going to build it and forget something. But, but that's been fun. That's been a lot of fun.
01:04:43
Jennifer Gulizia
Totally. I'm at the decision fatigue, I think, right now where I've kind of let everything sit for the last month because I'm like, I've just made too many decisions that I can't make another decision right now.
01:04:54
Jennifer Gulizia
But sometimes you just have to pick one and trust that it's the best decision at the time.
01:05:00
Jenny
Yes, yes. I think I think trying to look ahead and not have a lot of regrets is a really important way to go through life. Because otherwise, you could just agonize about your decisions. And, you know, I always think like, did I make a good decision based on the information I had available to me at the time?
01:05:16
Jenny
And if I did, then I don't stress about something I didn't know, because that's inevitable.
01:05:21
Jennifer Gulizia
I love that perspective. That's such a great mindset. Is there anything that I haven't asked you today that you want our listeners to know?
Closing: Connecting with Jenny and Final Thoughts
01:05:34
Jenny
I think just that I love growing flowers and I do juggle a lot of different things because I love so many, have so many different interests. And I think it is possible on whatever scale works for you to be able to grow flowers at a serious level and really enjoy them.
01:05:51
Jenny
And I often, you know, see discussions about people quitting their day jobs or things like that. And I don't know that you even have to do that. I think you can plunge into the joy of something like flower growing without having to necessarily give up other things in your life. I think you can do it and see where it goes and see where you wind up.
01:06:12
Jenny
And I would just encourage, i I love it. I love seeing people growing local flowers and I would love to see you know, as a society that we grow more and more towards local flowers, like the food movement has, you know, grown more towards slow foods and, you know, local foods.
01:06:29
Jenny
I think that's really important.
01:06:31
Jennifer Gulizia
Absolutely. Yes, we need more local flowers. There's still so much room for growth in this industry. Before we say goodbye, where can our listeners connect with you online?
01:06:45
Jenny
Probably the easiest, a they can either go to my website, which is dragonsongfarm.com. And i send out probably once or twice a month, I do an email newsletter so people can subscribe to that.
01:06:58
Jenny
I also am pretty active on Instagram. So you can follow Dragon Song Farm on Instagram or Facebook. And I kind of will post just pictures of what we're harvesting or what we're working on.
01:07:11
Jennifer Gulizia
Perfect, and we'll include show links to all of those in today's episode. Jenny, you have so much wisdom and advice. it's I thought you'd been farming for so much longer, so it's amazing that you've only been farming for a short time and you've accomplished so much and you're so knowledgeable.
01:07:25
Jenny
thank you
01:07:31
Jennifer Gulizia
I guess that goes back to just diving head first into it and really absorbing all of it. But it's ah ah you're a huge contributor to the ACSF. Now I'm going to mess it up again. I always do this.
01:07:43
Jennifer Gulizia
The Association of Specialty Cut Flower Growers. You contribute a lot there. you are always sharing. I see you're very active on Instagram and it's awesome to see.
01:07:53
Jennifer Gulizia
what a local following you have created with your flowers. So thank you so much for joining us today to share about your farm stand, your CSA, your jewelry, and also the legal aspects of flower farming with land and water. I think it's so important for flower farmers to be aware of all of that.
01:08:12
Jenny
Well, thank you so much. Thanks for doing this podcast. I love seeing things that amplify local flower farmers. So thank you so much for having me.
01:08:21
Jennifer Gulizia
Well, it was such an honor to chat with you and I'm sure we'll be chatting again soon.
01:08:26
Jenny
Great.
01:08:26
Jennifer Gulizia
Thanks, Jenny.
01:08:27
Jenny
Thanks very much.
01:08:27
Jennifer Gulizia
Have a great day.
01:08:28
Jenny
You too. Bye.
01:08:29
Jennifer Gulizia
Bye-bye.