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Ep.63: Floral Standards Every Flower Farmer Should Know with Diane Szukovathy of Jello Mold Farm
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In Episode 63 of The Backyard Bouquet Podcast, Jennifer sits down with Diane Szukovathy of Jello Mold Farm to explore the critical role of floral standards in flower farming. Diane shares how she went from planting zinnia seeds as a child to co-founding the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market and co-authoring Floral Standards — a groundbreaking guide for harvesting and handling over 230 floral crops.
We dig into:
- Growing pristine, sustainable flowers and achieving Salmon-Safe certification
- The inspiring creation of the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market, a farmer-owned co-op
- Why harvest timing and quality control are key to professional flower sales
- How Floral Standards is becoming the go-to guide for farmers, florists, and collectives
Whether you’re growing in your backyard or managing a flower farm, this episode will help you cut better stems, build stronger systems, and elevate your craft.
Show Notes: https://thefloweringfarmhouse.com/2025/07/01/ep-63-floral-standards-for-farmers/
🌿 Order the Floral Standards book: Seattle Wholesale Growers Market
📬 Connect with Diane: Visit jellomoldfarm.com and click “Contact Us”
Follow Seattle Wholesale Growers Market on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seattlewholesalegrowersmarket/
Seattle Wholesale Grower's Case Study: https://jellomoldfarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2021_Seattle-Wholesale-Growers-Coop-Case-Study_final-low-res.pdf
📌 Please Subscribe to The Backyard Bouquet Podcast for more flower farming insights!
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Transcript
Introduction to The Backyard Bouquet Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Backyard Bouquet Podcast, where stories bloom from local flower fields and home gardens. I'm your host, Jennifer Galizia of The Flowering Farmhouse. I'm a backyard gardener turned flower farmer located in Hood River, Oregon.
00:00:17
Speaker
Join us for heartfelt journeys shared by flower farmers and backyard gardeners. Each episode is like a vibrant garden, cultivating wisdom and joy through flowers. From growing your own backyard garden to supporting your local flower farmer,
00:00:32
Speaker
The Backyard Bouquet is your fertile ground for heartwarming tales and expert cut flower growing advice. All right, flower friends, grab your gardening gloves, garden snips, or your favorite vase because it's time to let your backyard bloom.
Guest Diane Sukuvati's Flower Farming Journey
00:00:56
Speaker
Today, I'm honored to welcome Diane Sukuvati to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. Diane's journey into flower farming began with a simple packet of zinnia seeds gifted to her as a child.
00:01:09
Speaker
And over the years, that small spark grew into a flourishing career in the floral industry. Alongside her husband, Dennis Westfall, Diane co-founded Jello Mold Farm, a stunning seven-acre flower farm in Washington's Skagit Valley.
00:01:26
Speaker
Since starting from scratch two decades ago, they have built a reputation for growing pristine quality flowers and and foliage while working in harmony with nature. Their farm is certified salmon safe and supplies over 80 different floral crops to some of the Puget Sound area's top floral designers.
00:01:46
Speaker
But Diane's influence extends far beyond her own farm. As a founding member of the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market, she played a key role in creating this farmer-owned cooperative, which connects local growers with florists and designers looking for seasonal, high-quality blooms.
00:02:04
Speaker
The co-op has reshaped the way floral professionals source their flowers, emphasizing sustainability and supporting small-scale American growers.
Founding the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market
00:02:14
Speaker
Now, Diane and her fellow growers have taken their collective expertise a step further with their new book, Floral Standards, a practical guide for harvesting and delivering professional quality products.
00:02:28
Speaker
This essential resource offers best practices for harvesting and handling 230 floral crops, ensuring that both flower farmers and home gardeners can achieve optimal vase life and quality.
00:02:42
Speaker
In today's conversation, we're going to dive into floral standards, the evolution of Jell-O-Mold Farm, and the story behind the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market, along with Diane's insights on growing and selling top-quality flowers.
00:02:56
Speaker
Whether you're backyard gardener, flower farmer, or simply passionate about sustainable floriculture, this episode is packed with valuable knowledge. So, without further ado, Diane, welcome.
00:03:08
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining us today. Oh, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Oh, it's such an honor. I'm so excited to talk to you. You have so many facets of your journey in the floral industry from starting your own flower farm to co-founding the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market to writing a book.
00:03:29
Speaker
So we're going to take it back for a moment. You mentioned to me offline that your love for flowers started with a packet of zinnia seeds from your great aunt.
Diane's Early Love for Flowers
00:03:40
Speaker
Is that correct? Yes. Yes. In fact, that's such a cool story. I've never told this story before. Oh. But um I grew up on a wild ranging piece of land in eastern Washington in the Metau Valley.
00:03:52
Speaker
And my parents were not farmers, they were but they liked to be on in the mountains and in open space. And um we had ah we had a fairly wild vegetable garden. My mom was very practical. She was sort of in charge of the vegetable gardens.
00:04:06
Speaker
But there were never any flowers anywhere. And I, but I, there were a lot of wildflowers on the property and I knew all of them as personal friends, somehow had a connection to flowers but was born with.
00:04:16
Speaker
um But my great aunt, it turns out my mom's family was actually farmers, just skipped her generation, but um they were homesteaders in the Happy Valley, Oregon. not far from me.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. So I've got this farming gene in my blood and I, And my great aunt Annette grew up on that, was born on that homestead. And um she actually has, I have her personal recollections of taking horse and buggy rides on corduroy roads on that property, which is so interesting. like The bugs are laid sideways.
00:04:47
Speaker
She became a school teacher and um never married. And um she was probably in her eighties when I was about eight years old. And she lived a long way away, but she would correspond with us. So she sent seed packets in the mail and I got the packet that said zinnia seeds. And so I got to learn what how to grow flowers by just planting these seeds. on That's how I knew it what a zinnia was, was when it grew up and bloomed amongst the weeds of my mother's garden. Oh, my goodness. I mean, it was, I cannot explain.
00:05:15
Speaker
i cannot ah cannot put words around the sheer ah magic of having that happen. I don't think Christmas really warrants that much attention compared to Christmas. getting this little seed, planting it, and having that happen as a kid. So yeah, that's that's um ah that's my story of ah domestic flower farming origins.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us. I feel so special that we got to hear about that story. First, a hand. It's just so important that um we share. We share about flowers. We flower people and botanically oriented people have to remember that it's so it's magic for others too and to share that.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yes. Well, that is exactly why I created this podcast is to share these stories. So I'm so excited to dive into your story, but I want to take a moment to acknowledge that packet of zinnia seeds.
00:06:07
Speaker
When you were eight years old, I think it just goes to show that such a small act or gesture can have such a lasting impact on someone's life. We never know what that one flower or that one seed is going to do or how when we, that seed that you sowed literally grew into something so much bigger.
00:06:26
Speaker
But I imagine that when you were eight years old, you didn't know you were going to become a flower farmer. No. So what was the moment that you realized that you wanted to turn your passion for flowers into a business?
Transitioning to Jello Mold Farm
00:06:38
Speaker
um so I had a landscaping business before Dennis and I um purchased land and started the farm and that's how I started that in the early 90s and this is another funny story but I don't want to take too much time so i'll I'll I'll go quickly with it because okay it's a questions but I just I had a I was an artist I was a painter and that's when I studied in college I the creative being to the, device to my core.
00:06:59
Speaker
And I was, had a studio. It was my, was in my late twenties living in Seattle when you could still live in Seattle for $10,000 a year. Oh my gosh. I know. Can you imagine? Anyway, it was great for being creative because you could find yourself that way. And I had a series of kind of, you know, like packing jobs and whatnot. And I was, I was in a packing warehouse and there was a window and then there was another building right next door over the little bingy alley. And then there was a row of moss on this window ledge of the building next door.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I just kept staring compulsively at that, little row of green across there through the Seattle rain going, i got to get outside. I got to get outside. Then one day I just started the landscaping business. I just did it. I just took a leap.
00:07:36
Speaker
Wow. um Started it with a thousand dollar micro loan and bought a few tools and just started raking yards and built it from there. And then that was what but like I've got quite a lot of botanical knowledge by just studying and taking classes and ah here and there. And that that's what was the co founder foundation for starting the farm.
00:07:56
Speaker
um So we just wanted to not live in the city anymore. And so just bought piece of land it what are we going to do with this? So anyway, I don't want to go too deep because I could spend four hours on this podcast and I want to make sure I answer your questions. Okay.
00:08:09
Speaker
Well, we can let it unfold organically too. I know we're definitely wanting to touch on the Seattle Wholesale Growers and your new book, but I think that your story really helps to shape who someone is and why it leads to other things. So I find this so fascinating.
00:08:26
Speaker
So you bought this piece of land and you just said, I'm going to start a flower farm and i'm going to call it Jell-O-Mold. Well, originally we were just going we just wanted to make a living off the land and we were going to grow like, um ah like do a little truck farm at the flowers, a bit more food oriented.
00:08:42
Speaker
We've had a big old orchard and about, you know, slowly over a few years, but 80 trees or something. we we we we went We went and volunteered at the farmer's market with some friends who had, were doing that. And we realized we were no way going to pay a mortgage that way.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I had all this botanical knowledge and it kind of just merged into a, um, a, oh my god, I can't stop figuring out what you can cut. i'm not well And so it happened organically. Yeah.
00:09:11
Speaker
Okay. It's kind of a slippery slope. So in those early years, I imagine there were a lot of lessons you learned about, you just mentioned what flowers can you cut. I'm sure there were a lot of lessons to learn.
00:09:23
Speaker
Oh my God, yes. I mean, there were so many because, um ah well, I joined the ASCFG. That was a really good move because then I could meet other for farmers and get a vision of what's possible. And so it evolved over some years. We just kept on landscaping to pay as we started to plant the farm.
00:09:39
Speaker
And of course, we started like everyone does with the annual crops because that's what you can bring to market that year. you know like So we also started putting in more of the I don't know, that ah more woody crops, and because I always had such an interest in it. I just love trees and shrubs and and always have. so And from my gardening days, I just was translating that information over to, oh, well, let's put 40 or 80 of those in a row instead of one in in a garden. you know so And learned a lot that way. i used Early on, I called it like shooting the shotgun, where you like you do a little research, then you try like 20 things and two of them stick.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. and And you call it tuition for the rest and expand on the ones that did. And just kind doing that over a number of years helped us kind of establish our niche. I always look at those, I'm doing quotation marks with my fingers, those ah almost failures as those are our best learning lessons that make us better at our craft of growing flowers. It's also what makes it really fun for farmers to go into conferences and meet up with other farmers because those stories are, they'll take you all night.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. They're like fishing stories. Yes. um My daughter, just last night, I went to visit another farmer. We have a barren piece of land, which I won't spend too much time on it, but we've got about 20 acres that we are now cultivating that we just purchased this last year.
00:10:58
Speaker
And a fellow flower farmer in our area gave me a ton of willow cuttings. And I'm talking about huge ones. And of course, I told my daughter, it's only going to be a few minutes. And she goes, yeah, right, mom.
00:11:10
Speaker
And 45 minutes later, my daughter's like, we've got to get out of here. And we're swapping our winter stories. And it's just so flower people are the best. You can just talk forever. yeah. I'll try not to get off on too many tangents today. breast right Yes. um It's like, it's always like meeting an old friend. Every time you see that flower, every time you see that flower grower, it just feels like you're connecting. it It's such a connection.
00:11:34
Speaker
um I do want to ask you a few more questions about your farm before we jump into the Seattle flower, Seattle wholesale growers market. Your
Sustainable Practices at Jello Mold Farm
00:11:44
Speaker
farm is known for its pristine quality and sustainable practices.
00:11:49
Speaker
Can you share some of your key growing philosophies and methods that you believe set your farm apart? Well, um yes. i I think it sets my farm together with other people who think the same way.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yes. and So put it that way, because I mean, I really always see myself as part of a um and ah a quilt or a community. Oh, I love that. So love... ah get I get resonant energy from that passion for treating the plant world well, um working as hard as possible to make sure that our footprint on the land is ah isn't too heavy. I mean, we can't really be perfect in this world. We live in a world of plastic and it's hard to get around it, but you can at least stay conscious and do your best at every turn and learn from others.
00:12:34
Speaker
um so But at the heart of it, the philosophy is um one of land stewardship. of caring about this planet and really wanting to use our daily lives as a, ah like a, what would be the right word? like Like just an example, like trying by example to see whether we can live some way besides the dollar destroying the planet.
00:13:00
Speaker
We are in business, but there must be other ways where it can be more in harmony with nature. And everything goes down to that. And we're I know you were going to ask me about the Salmon Safe certification, which we've had for a long time.
00:13:11
Speaker
um You know, we've looked at certifying organic and we do all the practices of organics. We just, the certification, it takes a lot of paperwork and it is, in my opinion, more designed for food.
00:13:22
Speaker
in that the customers don't really, there aren't enough customers looking specifically for certified organic. It's a great program, but it's much more tailored to food from my experience. And so the Salmon's Egg program was interesting for to us because, you know, once we, if we were selling directly to our customer, like a florist or whatever, we can, they can come to our farm and see what we're doing and we don't really need a certification.
00:13:43
Speaker
But once we started the co-op and our customers don't really know us personally, all of them, then, or haven't been to our farm, then it's really important to have a third party certifier say, We've been to your farm and you got you are ah ah adhering to these standards. And Salmon Safe, I really like the program. um it's more They do food, wine, beer, and flowers. That's kind of been their focus. um And what I like about the program is it's so smart because it's like, okay, because of gravity on this planet, water ends up back in the sea and everything you know they it ends up everything you do does really, even if you're not next to a body of water, does affect fish.
00:14:19
Speaker
And it's a cool measure. And what I like about the program is that it measures a lot of things that the organics program doesn't, like um wildlife habitat, um ah diverse diversity for pollinators, um erosion control, um you know, just what's your runoff doing. It does looking at a lot of like your whole farm practices in a way that Frankly, I love the program because I've learned so much from them.
00:14:40
Speaker
Like I just had a recertification with a new person came out. There are people staying with them for a long time. So I just met a new certifier. These folks have been to school for um you know e college oftanic ah college ecological farming. and And it's just like, look, at you've got a lot of canary weed grass over here in this area. I'd really appreciate if you might want to plant some plants.
00:15:00
Speaker
ah some, some tree stakes in here and get some shade on that stuff and help eliminate that. And I was like, well, that's a great suggestion. Thank you. And, and, and thanks for sending me the information on how to do that.
00:15:11
Speaker
So it's a, it's a reciprocal sort of situation, very educational. yeah Oh, I love that. Yeah. I kind of went down a rabbit hole reading about it this morning before our call because our new farm, we are on a gentle slope and it feeds into the Hood River, which is a major salmon run.
00:15:29
Speaker
And so everything that runs down the mountain from our property runs straight into the Hood River, which directly impacts the salmon. Yeah. so and And there's things you can do. I mean, it's like they're so good about but things you can do. Like you can just plant a barrier, ah you know, get some shade on, you know, if you if you're right over a creek or whatever, but just also like watch what you're doing with your animals. You know, like, you know, just it's just a matter of knowledge. It's pretty easy on our scale to to adhere to decent practices. Just need to know what they are.
00:15:58
Speaker
i love that you said they came out and gave you thoughtful suggestions of things you could do to improve because I think that's such a great partnership.
00:16:08
Speaker
ah We spent this last weekend on our farm pulling styrofoam out of our creek because it runs directly into the river. And for many, many years, our farm, it appears, was a huge dumping site where all garbage was buried literally on the creek.
00:16:25
Speaker
And so, I mean, my husband spent all day Saturday filling trash bags of it and all of a sudden the water's running clear, but. Oh, you know, that's going to be more and more. I think what happens to the new farmers who come in to land is that going to have to clean up somebody else's mess. And, you know, it's, it's, it's beautiful work um and, and thank you for doing it. And it's work that we all need to do in service to this planet that sustains us. And I don't want to get preachy, but I just really think it's important.
00:16:53
Speaker
I agree. Yes, we we definitely feel like stewards of this land and it just breaks our heart to see what's been done in the past, but we know that there's a better way. So so i I really love that you are certified salmon safe. It's something I'd never even heard of until I went to your website.
00:17:10
Speaker
And so um I just, I wanted to highlight that because I'm sure there's many other farmers that could also get involved with that as well. I just think that's such a great opportunity. let's kind of transition over to the Seattle wholesale growers market and the flower farming community if we can.
00:17:28
Speaker
So you started your farm over 20 years ago and you're still farming on your farm. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Making can a living at it. Yeah. Awesome. And you co-founded the Seattle wholesale growers market.
00:17:42
Speaker
Is that right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was, ah um, chair of the board for the first 11 years or so. And um yeah, but it was definitely a joint effort by bunch of different farmers from Washington and Oregon.
00:17:55
Speaker
What inspired the idea to create the Wholesale Growers Market? Oh, that's a great question. um yeah I think it was a need. I think um there were new farmers in who, um you know, into the trade, like you are now, who were like, oh, there's, I don't know how to make money. um I know how to grow it, but I don't know how to get sold. It doesn't seem very easy. And, um,
00:18:16
Speaker
you know, what we didn't know at the time was that the, there you know, all that the Andean Free Trade Act had gone into effect in the early nineties and had really moved a lot of the floral um product um production overseas to um the equatorial ah Americas. And, and just, so there wasn't nearly the opportunity and a lot of people who had been there for a while had gone out of business. And, and so there were, and there were, we had gotten together at the ASCFG meeting with, with Oregon and Washington growers. And so it was this thing where, well,
00:18:44
Speaker
there's this great market in Portland, but there's nothing like that in Seattle. And it was, and so unfortunately, um, I'm a real doer, you know, that's a kind of a good farmer trait, but it can get you in trouble. And it was just like, I was, I was a regional director at ASC, Ray CFG Northwest, um, at that time. And so I just said, well, let's have a round table discussion. And that it just was born in round table discussion at Charles Little and company in Eugene or spring Eugene. And, and, and then it, um,
00:19:11
Speaker
It was an idea and in the summer of 2010. By the fall, we were talking seriously about it. by the By February of the following year, we had incorporated the Secretary of State of Washington and we're a cooperative.
Formation of the Seattle Growers Cooperative
00:19:22
Speaker
And we opened our doors in um April of that year. So we just kind of the farmer style made it happen and learned as we went.
00:19:30
Speaker
And um yeah, probably made many, many mistakes that we could have studied a while and not made. But um maybe it was the only way it would have happened. Because if we really looked at what we were doing, I don't think we would have seen it as viable.
00:19:42
Speaker
um There's a wonderful um publication that I'll go ahead and link you to if you don't already have it. It's a case study that Margaret Lund did on our cooperative. Oh, I'd love to see it. That would that would help also help for anybody who's super interested in that particular topic and can reference that. So I'll make a note to um so get that reference to you.
00:20:00
Speaker
Awesome. And then I can include that in the show notes so that our listeners can also read about it. I would love to know, How did you make the grower's market a reality? I mean, i know you guys all decided to do it, but what were the steps you took to make it a reality?
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, we had to come out find some money somehow. So we just sort of happened upon some entomologists over here at the research station in Mount Vernon who had a grant that they'd written that wasn't working out quite how they wanted to. supposed to be for the cut flower trade, but the sector of people they were trying to serve weren't really interested in getting the services they had written the grant for. And so they were trying to figure out a way to kind of cram walk over to where they could help the industry and do what they needed to do to get their work paid. and And so we kind of set up a deal with them where we held the Cut Flower Growers School. I was really interested in doing it already and brought in some expertise and did a two-day school. i think the tuition was $150, which is awesome. Wow. well Yeah.
00:20:53
Speaker
We were grant funded, but we were also like really just interested in learning ourselves and getting information out there. So that would have been probably what I would say would be the that since we seem to have a theme here of talking about the source, but like the source point of these bigger things that came out, I would say that that was the source point of our book, was holding those grower schools.
00:21:13
Speaker
And then some of us farmers who were founders got together and were teachers there as well as, you know, bringing in other expertise from other areas and then We were able to keep the tuition. We we didn't um get to use the grant funding directly, but we keep the tuition. and That's how we raised our money to get our bylaws written with a um cooperative attorney.
00:21:30
Speaker
And then we had to search for a place because originally we thought, well, we'll just circle wagons in a parking lot and sell that way on certain days of the week or whatever. And, you know, there's a lot of collective energy going on right now. I see that it's a big um resonant.
00:21:44
Speaker
topic amongst um the next generation of flower farmers, I think is wonderful. And we were right there. and we were having those same thoughts and we were like, okay, how can we do this and make it work? And ultimately the Oregon growers who had to drive five hours and more said, Hey, we can't just drive up there for a parking lot. We have to have somewhere with a cooler where we can put our products. And so found a space in Georgetown and Seattle, South, South Seattle. And, um,
00:22:05
Speaker
and fit into a lease and it took off from there. It's quite a long story. So I, I, I, but it, it could have many people came and went out of those original was kind of like quicksand a little bit people figuring out what, what is this business and what my role there as kind of the core leader for those first decade or so was just to keep the baby alive and see how can we you know because people people were figuring out whether it was you know were they you know what would would their philosophy align with what we were doing but you know there's a lot just a lot going on there in the formative time and it was just like okay let's just see if we can hold this space where the majority can exist and and then figure ourselves out that's sort of the that the beginnings
00:22:47
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing. Because like you said, there's so many newer flower farmers. I mean, i started my flower farming journey seven years ago, and i think there was a handful of flower growers in my region where I'm in the Columbia River Gorge.
00:23:02
Speaker
And I think we last counted, there's over 25 growers now. So, I mean, we've grown substantially. And I think there's a lot of curiosity in different regions about how did the Seattle wholesale growers market become so successful And I know that to get to become successful, it often takes a few trial and errors.
00:23:24
Speaker
um But one thing I love that you said is that you didn't really have everything figured out, but you guys just kind of kept taking a step. And then the next step until you figured it out, it sounds like. Well, that and I mean, i I do believe like I just really want to.
00:23:38
Speaker
I think it's like it's such such a challenge to try and harness all that great creative and And plain old work ethic energy, um ah you know, like not all those flower farmers will stick at the long haul, but a number of them will. And how is it that we can organize enough that this product can flow in and not just be battling itself? You know, like how can we collaborate to sell? And I just think that's a big question that is... um Well, youth has the energy to answer it, but I certainly also think it's important not to just reinvent the wheel over and over again. So it seems to have happened in our industry where people guard their knowledge. And that's part of why we created this book. It's like, we don't want that.
00:24:16
Speaker
We're all going to die anyway. You know, like, let's just, let's make sure that the next generation doesn't have to start from the same place we did. And, you know, so that, but that, that ability to sell together, because of course we have this market, this, um, the market, the consumers are trained.
00:24:30
Speaker
that they go in the grocery store and they grab their flowers or they go to you know, like everything's like automatic and perfect and standardized. And, you know, that's how the world runs. And so how do you as a little farmer, like get enough market to be able to make a living or, you know, people love the idea of the farm, but, you know, how do you make enough money to be able to stay
Collaborating to Compete with Imports
00:24:48
Speaker
on it? You know, is it's like sad because I think most of us are motivated by, can I just live here and do this? You know, and and I don't mind the work.
00:24:55
Speaker
and um And most people I know are fantastic growers. It's the marketing that's the hard part. And i think it's just so important to not borrow too much from the competitive model and see what will, you know, you have to differentiate yourself. And it's not that a little healthy competition isn't a bad idea. It helps you have quality, but it's also such an important thing To think, well, how can we work together?
00:25:17
Speaker
Because then everybody wins. And more than anything, I think it's actually good good science. I think that um the consumer then perceives that the industry is like vibrant and they want to buy from it.
00:25:29
Speaker
um So i think like I think the nation of Holland is a good example of that. Yes. Well, one thing that I see that's so great about a growers collective is that it allows us to better compete with the imports. Because myself, um I have a 20-acre farm. I'm only going to cultivate about an acre this year.
00:25:54
Speaker
um i still can't grow enough to compete with the larger imports. I mean, i can never supply the same quantity, but if i combine forces with the my fellow growers in the area, we could supply a florist with their needs for the week.
00:26:10
Speaker
um So I think that together we become a stronger collective if we can all deliver the same quality of product. Yeah. And I would say with the Seattle Hustle Growers Market, it was that Oregon-Washington convening which made us have to get bigger than we ever imagined we'd have to be just to exist. So once we had a lease, we had to keep paying that lease.
00:26:28
Speaker
And then we got see got a grant to have a manager. And that would so it sort of changed our business model. We needed to be bigger. you know And so now we've got a walk-in shoppable cooler and we have a staff of 10 people and we have or approximately 10 a seasonal little bit. but And then we have... um like that staff works and we are open year round with regular business hours. And that changes everything because we're also seasonal here in the Northwest. And it's like um just the next, you know, if you think of concentric circles of local, you know, it's like, okay, well then,
00:27:00
Speaker
That's a very different model than the imports. And so you can almost think of it as a different product and a different, um you know, and, and, but you can't mark each little individual can't market it. I mean, it doesn't hurt to have the presence and farm stand and a beautiful website and all of that, but really to get some power behind the moving product.
00:27:21
Speaker
There's that, that's where, so like keeping the good part of our diversified and seasonal crops, but standardizing the way we grow them so that the customer learns that they can get the same thing from different farms at different times. And and it's in end and so then they start to work it into their design work and understanding.
00:27:39
Speaker
There's so much teaching that needs to be done. i mean, it's also the great part. It's why we're all in it, right? it's like this It's like so many different things we can grow, right? and cut Yeah. Absolutely. Well, a quote comes to my mind, and I don't know who said it, but it's, a rising tide rise e am i saying that right a rising tide rises all shit all boats.
00:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's yeah. That's very apt. Yes, I think. And so I think of it the same way in the flower industry. If we can help everyone become better growers, it just strengthens the sustainability of the local flower market for all of us.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. um I imagine that there were some challenges getting started. Looking back, what were one or two of the biggest challenges you guys faced but launching? Oh, that's a loaded question. I know. yeah Well, it'll just be random for me because my brain is like a flywheel and it'll just turn up whatever it turns up at that moment. So,
00:28:37
Speaker
ah How about rats eating the amaranth and grass products in our coolers down at the... Oh my gosh....first rented and the landlord deciding that they're going to put a paid parking lot where our customers park and then ticketing them.
00:28:50
Speaker
That was a bit of a... And then having to relocate ourselves into a space that was way too big for ourselves in 2017 and thinking, oh, we'll sublet the extra space and not realizing that Seattle had become so expensive...
00:29:02
Speaker
to live and start a business in that nobody wanted a 5000 square foot sublease, because if they're going to be a startup, they're going to be somewhere besides Seattle. And so having to eat that lease long enough that we, but well, that's why we negotiated that deal with Mayesh to be next door is like, Oh, my goodness, how are we going survive this?
00:29:19
Speaker
um So, you know, it's like always like that thing of that lean mean survival instinct, right? Is like, okay, well, we're in a pickle. How do we get out of this pickle? What are our options? And how creatively can we think to do it? So that, that there, there is a nice little, I think that's a couple examples.
00:29:34
Speaker
um Yeah. But it was constant like that. Yeah. Yeah. The other one, actually, i would give you one more. what That is just simply that consistently through time, fear has been the thing that we our own fears have been the thing that would stop us.
00:29:46
Speaker
oh I saw it many, many times and I personally would have engaged in I call it, fear dance, you know, a little fight, a little, little but that's all, all that, all those kefluffles, those personal issues, whatever.
00:29:58
Speaker
um I learned, I had tremendous personal growth by learning that you just can't afford that fight, so don't have it. um And in know learning that that's a choice and that the job is to keep the baby alive was really good for me and also really good, I think, probably for your listeners, because anybody who's trying to form a collective will know that that's it's just like grounding.
00:30:18
Speaker
The core is such an important piece of keeping like you could figure out probably anything mechanical and even the hugest of obstacles if you can keep a calm in the core. That's such great advice.
00:30:30
Speaker
um I think that our ah self-doubt can stop us from so many things. I read a book last year called Don't Believe Everything You Think. And it was a game changer of settling my mind because I would always go to worst case scenario. It's like, what if this happens or what if this happens? It's like, that's just a thought. I don't.
00:30:46
Speaker
And there's one other piece of this, which is about confidence, right? This industry, you know, has all different kinds of people in it, but it is for agriculture. It's the one sector that's more women than men. Yes. Anyway, and it's like it's a lot. There's a lot of female energy in our, you know, even feminine energy, I should say, which anyone everyone has that.
00:31:05
Speaker
But that's a lot of but it's it's it's badass, too, because we're producing and we're farming and we're, you know, gritty. um But it's still with a lot of women business owners. And we have our own issues with confidence because of how we've been enculturated. You know, it's like it's so I just think it's a wonderful opportunity to to um realize how dang smart and capable we are and to, you know, a growth opportunity.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. That's great advice. Thank you. As the local flower movement grows and we see more and more flower farmers coming into um the industry, do you think that we'll see more farmer-led cooperatives like this in other regions of the country?
00:31:48
Speaker
I sincerely hope so. And what I'd like to see is more um ah cooperation between cooper cooperatives, if that can happen. um It's a bit of a vision down the road. It's not there now.
00:32:00
Speaker
um But I can already see, even within our within our membership in the co-op, we go from the Canadian board. we're We're in western Washington, Oregon, is where our members happen to be. um From the Canadian border down to...
00:32:12
Speaker
about central um West Oregon. um And yeah just the differences in microclimates and times, of like for instance, lilac will come out at very distinctly different times all the way down there. So instead of having three weeks of lilac, you'll have six or so eight weeks of lilac, that kind of thing.
00:32:27
Speaker
I believe we could do regional alliances and move product back and forth um And it could be a really a wonderful way of movie getting more people engaged. I know for our co-op, I certainly envision because you know we have this we have ah now a big, like 28-foot refrigerated box truck and a large shop shoppable walk-in cooler at the market and a lot of other ah you know things that help our business run. Those are expensive. Our lease is expensive.
00:32:53
Speaker
And so we have an overhead that we need to move a certain amount of product through. And it just seems to me like we're not maximizing that overhead yet. And how it would work really well to if there were others who could interface with us. I could see that being really bright because like right now our, our co-op brings in like product from California, our product from Hawaii, product from British Columbia to supplement, especially for the months when our growers don't have it.
00:33:18
Speaker
And I also see the problem of there's a lot of flower farmers around us who are not part of the market. I mean, we probably sell the products of 60 farms in there. it's ah That's an out-of-the-air guess. We have 19 members um who own the co-op.
00:33:31
Speaker
um We would certainly love to engage with and have a bigger membership, but it's like the opportunities. You know you don't want to displace a grower just to bring another grower in. And so it's a science there's a science to it.
Challenges and Growth of the Cooperative
00:33:41
Speaker
And ah right now, I'm personally, this is just my personal thought, it's not necessarily what the co-op is going to do or the board will decide to do, but I just see us having an ability to are do more like regional, um like get more of a product out of our region also um in a way that's thoughtful and thinking about concentric circles. So sell it as close to home as possible as the model.
00:34:03
Speaker
um just some Just some thoughts. So yeah, I do see possibilities, but it takes so much organization. And I think sometimes the smaller collectives need to think about who's going to do all those things that gets the product distributed and how are they going to get paid.
00:34:17
Speaker
That's a huge obstacle. And sometimes and we did it we did get USDA funding for our co-op, um several different grants early on. We don't have any now, but um they certainly did help us to become big enough to tackle some of those problems. But we're still unfolding ourselves and it's still a challenge.
00:34:35
Speaker
I love that idea of having more cooperatives that can share product and collaborate like you just said. I think that would be amazing for the local flower movement. What advice would you give to growers who want to start something similar in their own communities?
00:34:51
Speaker
Oh, my. um Well, I would say that that case study of the co-op would be a great um just to get our story read. And, um yeah, I would say that this co-op had this extremely committed core to it.
00:35:08
Speaker
from the beginning about just a handful of people. um Actually, some of them never even served on the board. They are just amazing suppliers who are just there and solid. But there's like there was a handful that are just anchoring that business for us.
00:35:22
Speaker
And i think you need that. You need to you need a level of commitment. in the core. Not everybody has to be there. People have lots of different reasons why they might weave in and out in a different way.
00:35:33
Speaker
But joke if you're your core has got to be committed, almost like parenthood, um that kind of level of, hey, you know, like I remember early on, I would say, folks, mean, we were were many times when we're probably going to go out of business, and people were really scared about it.
00:35:46
Speaker
I just say, hey, it's not going to explode. If it needs to go out of business, we will take the steps. I will be there the whole time. And we will just calmly do the things we need to do if we have to shut this business. And I will be the last one to leave the room and I will turn off the lights.
00:36:01
Speaker
And that just calms people. It's like, okay, hang on. It doesn't, it's not this wild beast. It's a, well, maybe it is. We could talk about that, but it is a, it's a, it's a, it's a, an ongoing project, shared project. And I think you also have to be committed to embracing the lessons that you personally will learn. Like I, I, I,
00:36:21
Speaker
I've learned, had gotten so much personal growth out of some of the harder times, especially working with people and learning how to be a better cooperator. And it's humbling and also huge opportunity.
00:36:34
Speaker
That is great advice for others wanting to start a similar co-op. I think there's so much opportunity and so much interest in this right now. So I look forward to reading your case study.
00:36:46
Speaker
I know that through this co-op, through the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market, a group of you got together and decided that we needed some floral
Developing 'Floral Standards' Book
00:36:55
Speaker
standards. Is that correct? Yeah. And it actually started um before COVID. It actually started...
00:37:02
Speaker
i i had that I brought the seeds of that idea. i mean, we saw the need we all saw the need, but I had already seen it on my farm. just trying to you know You have a lot of turnover on a seasonal farm and trying to train our our employees on, you know well, there's 10 stems in this bunch and here's the harvest age on that. I'd started with a recipe card box.
00:37:20
Speaker
that just was divided into annuals, perennials, woodies, you know, and i just so that people could find but what what it was. and Because we would forget from year to year, what's the stem length on the choralopsis? You know, like that kind of thing. because So, because our crops are seasonal.
00:37:35
Speaker
And so um started that started. And then um during COVID, um right around then, we had gotten a grant from the USDA, the same grant that funded the case study that we'll include with this um with your support materials.
00:37:48
Speaker
um And it funded us to, we decided we would take and build a series. We had money to do this. We had to to build a series of, we called them spec sheets. They were a series of PDFs on all the main products in the market so that because it was just a challenge to get the growers to send Like even if it's the same number of stems, like it would be like girth and high. There's just so much to quality stage of harvest and then so many different crops. And so we built these series of spec sheets and and a kind of a master best practices sheet.
00:38:19
Speaker
And John Dole, um Professor John Dole from ah North Carolina State University in Raleigh, I want to make sure I quote the Rikes College there. But um he he's kind of one of the top experts in the nation on specialty cut flower post-harvest care.
00:38:36
Speaker
and And he harvests in post-harvest. And he vetted all of our sheets for us as part of, we funded, was funded through the grant, which was fantastic because then we had not only our own learned experience, which was some very experienced farmers, but still it's, we're farmers, not scientists.
00:38:51
Speaker
And then we had him ah reading through proofing and giving us information so that that gave us a kind of a credibility within and we just use those sheets within the co-op and then a couple of years ago um we were in a board retreat in the fall fall is when you get in trouble farmers that's when you have time to bite off something nice and large and chew on it until spring comes and you go what the hell was i thinking but But one of our one of our ah board members suggested that we ought to publish those sheets into a book because they were highly useful to people outside of the co-op as well. And um so come that was fall of 2023.
00:39:28
Speaker
And come fall of 2024, we had a book, sort of like the co-op. And i did i the co-op paid me some money to spearhead the project and to you know take it from those sheets into something more developed. Our manager, Brad Seabee, is very botanically knowledgeable and like helped us add some chapters and also helped us to discern, you know kind of working in a team, we discerned which are the products that should be in here and which ones are so esoteric we probably don't need to put them in and you know kind of finding that line and i know like conifers was one of the ones you know just there's just a big blurry wasteland there's just no information out there and and people bring you know we had really cool conifers coming into the market it would just happen to be some grower had access to a nursery and they could harvest all this really cool golden foliage whatever's and you know like and all you're like wow that's cool cool what is that thing
00:40:18
Speaker
Never knew they made white pines that were that shape or whatever like that. And so getting, kind taking that, drilling it into an actual like data that's captured um and accessible um in an organized way was the challenge, like wrestling a big beast.
00:40:33
Speaker
um Because, you know, together in that co-op, we probably, like I know we were trying at some point right in that, COVID time period to create unique line items for all the crops that sell through the co-op.
00:40:44
Speaker
you know, we don't have barcodes because, you know, that's another whole other step. But it was over 7,000 when we cataloged it. Wow. Items between farm and item. It's just crazy how much, you know, you take that diversity, everyone's botanical curiosity and cube it and it you know You've got quite an inventory list. um so So that was the confusion of all that chaos and the fact that, I mean, AI will make that a simple thing eventually, I'm sure. But for us, for our feeble human brains, um we needed some way of organizing ourselves and then communicating to new growers coming in as well as our existing growers, what was it acceptable for a quality standard? Because and this is the key to it all, is that when you have a shared brand in a collective or a cooperative,
00:41:29
Speaker
Your customers shop from the from the cooper co-op. They don't shop from... They know, and we, are you know, in our market, we have signage and our customers do know what farms their products come from or can find out if they want to.
00:41:40
Speaker
um that's very and said That's something that a part of our brand is that ah origin is important. you know That's what local is. is you know It's not greenwashed if you know exactly what farm it comes from and where.
00:41:51
Speaker
um and so But at the same time, the customer is buying from the co-op. And if they buy ah something crappy um or they you know they see that, oh, this bunch, there's a picture in the book of two bunches of Snap Reagans. And one of them is like, you know it'll give you ah an improved bicep. And the other one is like, what is that wimpy little thing?
00:42:10
Speaker
And they're like both 10 stems and they're both being sold at the same price point. And it's not that one is even better value than the other. It's just that they're not the same. They're not the same. And so trying to find a language where we can have our customers still have that wonderful um experience of lots of selection, which is what the other kind of wholesalers don't give because it's so commodified.
00:42:32
Speaker
um At the same time, enough enough standardization that our creative people, we call it we call it like an art supply store. Our creative people, a perishable art supply store, our creative people can make sense of it and you and and feel like they're having a quality professional um experience when they buy from us.
00:42:52
Speaker
I can't believe that there were 7,000 different line items. Ultimately, the book now covers 230 floral crops. Is that correct? Yeah. And to be clear, you know, it's like 20 farms times Snapdragon. You know what I mean? So, okay.
00:43:07
Speaker
Not that many... I mean, where there are quite a few products that are not in the book that sometimes show up in the market, but the book really does capture the heart of it. Probably 95% or more of what sells through the market um is standardized into that book.
00:43:21
Speaker
um Yeah. So it's 230 crops. is But, you know, like, for instance, the grasses section has, like, you know, there's a chart in there, and it's, like, you know, 20 kinds of grasses, and that's just for annual grasses, or 15, or what like that. So it's, like, there's a lot more than 230 actual crops in there.
00:43:35
Speaker
It's pretty detailed. Because... fact is is that there is the detail is where the knowledge is. That's where the um the actual information that's useful is, is in that granular detail.
00:43:48
Speaker
I think that's so great. One of the key focuses in this book is on harvest timing. Can you explain for those that are listening today who are newer to harvesting cut flowers, why is proper harvest timing so critical for vase life and
Impact of Harvest Timing on Quality
00:44:03
Speaker
quality? That's such a great question.
00:44:05
Speaker
Because um and it's different for every single crop. Some crops, you know, like foliage crops and things are not so critical, but certain flowers, I mean, they're just like It's the reason we're in love with the plant world is it's so incredibly diverse and full of surprises.
00:44:22
Speaker
you know Basically, if you go back to evolution, it's just like like a multitude of ways of solving a problem. in each Each plant figures that out differently, and then we as humans come along and want to use the plants for a particular use for cut flowers and then the plants will respond differently based on their characteristics and knowing those plants is essential so um if would we take the topic of dahlias because a lot of people starting out are growing dahlias um and this is stuff we learned on the way that is just so interesting so um but you know you'd hear rumors like oh you know you don't cut your dahlias won't
00:44:57
Speaker
oh open more. If you cut them, they'll stay right at that stage. And then people go, well, no, no, no. um The BC growers sell these certain white dahlias and they just, they're super tight and they do open. And, you all like you just kind of get this information. You go, what?
00:45:09
Speaker
You know, look in both directions going, what? So what we did, and we did a lot of vase trialing for the information that's in the book. And John Dole did help us set up our trialing. We did it here on our farm because we have in our barn, we have an insulated prep room.
00:45:23
Speaker
ah we can keep We can keep it within, we just experimented and we can keep our temperatures there, whether it's cold or warm, we can between a space heater and a little swamp cooler. We can keep it within two degrees one way or another of room, 68 degrees Fahrenheit, so room temperature.
00:45:37
Speaker
So we have a standard, we can say, you know, applied science, we have a standard to set with that. And we base trialed like, I can't remember, well over 200 different varieties of dahlias, the ones that grow, the cut flower growers were growing.
00:45:48
Speaker
Wow. There's of course, you know, like hundreds of thousands of varieties of dahlias, I think. um But there's certain ones that you are available in the trade for cut flower growing or super popular on social media or whatever. And the ones that our customers want, the certain colors and shapes. And so we just base trialed the heck out of whatever we could get our hands on of the stuff that was selling through the market.
00:46:08
Speaker
keeping a standard we we've invented uh and it's in the book we've invented four stages of harvest so that we could communicate with our growers see all these things these these systems are so that you can communicate from one grower to another and have a similar result so we just are and that's why that also why the book doesn't have an author it's it's authored and published by the market the co-op market because it's the farmers the farmer this is the collective knowledge of the farmers that that the farmers are sharing um me being one of the farmers um and a leader in the in the project.
00:46:37
Speaker
um But it's um what we found was, this is so interesting, values are not all the same. They're like people, you know, like some people can work well in hot weather. Some people wilt when it gets over 70 degrees.
00:46:49
Speaker
You know, like we all have characteristics that are genetic. And um so being able to understand, oh um let's see, like, you know, like brown sugar is a fantastic cutting dahlias. Well, what we did is we created a chart. There's like, in the book, there's a chart of like five pages just of dahlias. I think you've got that.
00:47:05
Speaker
um You could probably include that in your um supplemental materials, ah some of those samples. But what it is, it's like, We, we, we take base tests to them. We included in the chart, the ones that had the base life. Some valleys have a base life of two or three days. Some of them have a base life of 14 days. So interesting how all over the world.
00:47:22
Speaker
Yeah. And it, and some of them won't open a won't budge an inch from when you cut them. And some of them um will shatter if you cut them past a fairly tight stage, you know, it's like, like, and we got that. I'm not going to go, Cornell is a great dahlia, but um it doesn't um want to be cut past stage two. I mean, know it'll shatter on you in three days. You know, well, good to know if you're putting them in a grocery bouquets, you know.
00:47:42
Speaker
And so that information becomes like just the ability to, you know, the information that you need to be able to have your bouquet last a week. Or, you know, however long you tell your customer it's going to last, you know.
00:47:54
Speaker
um And so um what we did is we bolded. We actually have the list and what's what what you you know, whether it can be included in weeklies or or just for event purposes, that sort of thing. But then we also bolded the ones. And this is really important for growers, um not so much for bachelorette gardeners, although it does matter, is that does it actually pay for its real estate?
00:48:14
Speaker
Does this, you know, I always, I pick on Crichton honey, um which hopefully there is a new, I don't grow dahlias anymore, but I did for years. And hopefully there's a new dahlias that's better than Crichton honey. people are growing because it looks really good in photographs and it behaves well in a vase, but it'll shoot, you through you know,
00:48:29
Speaker
three stems a week if you're lucky and a plant, if you're very lucky. I mean, this is awful and it's always short and falling over and, you know, like, ugh. So that we don't mold that one because, you know, there's a, find a better one, you know, and then that information goes back to the root producers. It's like, hey, these are the ones, like there's your, always thought of it like your 24-crown box.
00:48:47
Speaker
Doesn't mean you can't experiment all over the map. but you really need that solidity to be able to have reliability to your customers, that knowledge. So that's what that would be an example. A very deep answer, but I think it's important.
00:48:59
Speaker
the depth The depth that went into the book, and we're getting a lot of feedback because it's been published for about ah six months now. And what we're getting back from people, it's gotten out there. And, you know, the chrysanthemum experts say, you really nailed chrysanthemum.
00:49:12
Speaker
The woman um who visits our farm from, who's a representative for Heuger, who does the Ice and Roses breeding out of Germany, comes to me and says, you you you know, i well, I went to her and got the information. You know, like we we were like, let's get this. Let's be as accurate as possible in here because there's so much kind of blurry info out there.
00:49:31
Speaker
washy It's a romantic industry to get into. We all do it for the passion. Then we try to figure out how to make a living after we got ourselves in over our feet.
Advice for New Flower Farmers
00:49:38
Speaker
And, you know, so it's like, well, so important to like, okay, well, here's this information that you need.
00:49:45
Speaker
to actually um be successful selling these crops, you know? And like hellebores would be another example where our farm has grown orientalis hellebores for a long time outside. And they're usually a late March, early April crop. and then they get sometimes they get more weather damage than others, but it's people love them, but you have to wait fairly open harvest stage or they just are not reliable. and there's all these all this information, oh, you know, put poke little pinholes in the stems and do that, put hot water, don't do hot water. you know, there's all this information out there.
00:50:14
Speaker
But the truth is that, um, uh, they, you have to just wait until a certain harvest stage. This was to your question. Tell, you know, actually two flowers have already gone past their floral stage and then another one's opening. And then, and then you could, you know, and it's, that's in the book, but the hybrid hellebores, the new ones from frost kiss and ice and, and the ice and roses series from Hoeger are, um,
00:50:35
Speaker
They're different. And you can hear they bloom much earlier. We've got those in our hoop house and we bring up a Valentine's Day crop with those, which is amazing. And um the thing is that they can they can harvest at a much tighter stage and have reliable base life um when you follow the post-harvest care.
00:50:52
Speaker
That could be, I mean, the stuff, you know, I always tell growers, do your own experimenting, you know, because that's the way you really know. Maybe your water's different. Maybe, you know, who knows what's, you know, growing conditions are different everywhere.
00:51:03
Speaker
um But at least this book is, you know, vetted information by growers, right? So it's got some solidity to it. Any grower will still have to experiment. It is super good for backyard growers too and and gardeners. And not we I started out as as a passionate gardener. That's where I got my beginnings from. And I always tell the garden clubs that come tour our farm, like, be careful if you get acreage.
00:51:24
Speaker
Might not be a good thing. Yeah. I lose a whole bunch of other aspects of your life in this passion. um But it's it's just this idea that you've got it growing out there, but the difference between whether it lasts two days and falls apart on the table or last seven has to do with what stage you harvested at.
00:51:39
Speaker
that's why that information is so important. And so people who know a lot about plants um may not know that piece of information. Yeah. I think that's great advice. And I think you nailed it perfectly at the end there that a lot of people can grow the flowers and have beautiful flowers. But if you don't harvest them at the right time, they're not going to last afterwards. So and that's what your book does. Right. And I also want it about quality. It's just that I saw it many times through the years.
00:52:06
Speaker
Some growers know how to use their compost pile and some don't. And it's just really important to know that the florists have a very long memory. So do consumers. You know, it's like if they buy a bouquet from you and it doesn't last or if they buy some bunches from you and it doesn't hold up, well, it's a perishable industry. It happens to everyone.
00:52:23
Speaker
But if you're as careful as possible for it not to happen and if you follow up and make sure you do good with those people when it does happen, you will develop a reputation that will take you as long as you want to farm.
00:52:35
Speaker
But if you don't pay attention to that and you sell your garbage because you can't bear to put it on your compost pile, because we all have it, we all have that garbage. it's just ah I mean, the farms will look the same. It's just the brand of the particular farm will be what's the quality control of what rolls into that truck.
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah. I love that advice. That's so great. What else can we find in this book, Floral Standards? Oh, I think um ah personally, um there's just so much to learn. So, well, for one thing, I need to credit Robin Avni, who's our graphic designer. She worked with us and helped us. She's very um talented and very experienced, but she's also very practical. And she understood that we needed something like the concept of a cookbook.
00:53:19
Speaker
We needed this book to function um for our growers currently in the market to be able to like those. So, you know, like it's organized. It's a lot of information. So you'd be organized in a way where it's simple and calm.
00:53:30
Speaker
So, you know, if you're just looking at how many stems of something like Coralopsis is the example I used before because I just started harvesting that crop here on our farm and I'm not. I can't remember what the height is on that. I go, look, it's always in this, generally the same place on the page. So I can go boom, open the book and I see it. Boom, done.
00:53:45
Speaker
Out the door. um Or what was that? Was that a crop that needs to be in plain water or hydrodation solution or, or, or a tea bag, you know, ah like a, and that that's explained in the book too, the post-harvest um solutions and yeah different crops need different things.
00:53:59
Speaker
So that for, just for the growth, the continuing grower, it's really helpful, but it also has a, um and a place called recommended varieties for cutting. And so there's a lot of, um the book is an incredible resource for what can I grow to cut.
00:54:10
Speaker
Like if you're in the in the process of ah starting or evolving your farm, I do think, and I'm just very passionate about woody crops. i I joked with you at the start of this thing that I could talk to you for now or easy on woody crops.
00:54:23
Speaker
um and But I do think there's a lot of opportunities of things people have not heard of. And um and to to to expand, particularly for people who have land and want to put in more permanent crops, um because there's certainly a glut of some of the more common things. And in the summer, it can become almost like a slaughterhouse, you know, like how many marigolds and zinnias can this market bear, you know, and dahlias, you know, you got to find your places, but it's like, oh my goodness, and the price will plummet.
00:54:49
Speaker
And that's so sad because you don't want to be paying money to work that hard. and So, yeah, yeah, I think it's a great resource for what can I grow. And it's also a great worst resource for black backyard gardeners in terms of what can I cut that I didn't know I could cut?
00:55:04
Speaker
You know, some things just won't put up with going into a vase. um But a lot of things will. And it's interesting to know what those are. Were there any surprises in the book of things that you personally didn't know you could cut?
00:55:18
Speaker
Oh, they're always all the time. I mean, that's all the time. um I think the Dahlia experiment was a great one. We've got a really good chart on roses, too, because, um of course, there's you know rose trade is massive worldwide, and there are particular varieties of them bred for greenhouse production in particular locations, but...
00:55:35
Speaker
People are growing the backyard roses because, you know, I love this movement. And it's just like, it's, it's got a second generation on it now from when I started. It's just like it keeps reinventing itself and getting bigger and more enthusiasm. i think it's just a need we have.
00:55:49
Speaker
But like, for instance, what the lead is, is like, you know, when I use that example of the snap dragons or the roses, the same thing. It's like, I want that one that looks like it was cut in the backyard. I don't really actually want that thing that looks like it was grown on steroids. Yeah.
00:56:01
Speaker
um And so then as all it's a lot of different varieties or or it's different growing habits. And you just have to figure out how to standardize that enough to get it sold. But like a lot of those David Austin broses, they don't have a great base life because they're bred for fragrance. But that's what people want. And they have this beautiful arching stem and they'll just they look so gorgeous in arrangements. And of course, um there's no lack of creativity amongst the floral community, including the flower flower community.
00:56:26
Speaker
farmer florists. And so um it's just lovely to be able to express that um creativity. And so that's the variety of different products. I'm curious on the roses. I've got a personal question on them.
00:56:40
Speaker
Does it talk about, because you mentioned that the book talks about how to proper harvesting, does it say anything about removing the thorns on the roses and when to do that?
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my goodness. It does not say that because of course that's a question of what the use is. um And so it doesn't affect base life. um But there are thorn removers and it depends on, I think in our market, little bit floor of snow to shop gingerly.
00:57:08
Speaker
And there's some there's some care taken. I know we grow one variety of roses out here on our farm called Darlow's Enigma. We only grow one variety. It's because it's a shrub rose and it won't stop growing for us. And it's a great, it's a fragrant, lovely addition to Bride Oble case in June and July.
00:57:23
Speaker
um And that one is just, it's got thorns even on the leaves. So, and and I have a little stripper and I'll strip the bottom. I'll try to be considerate, but we we farmers have to, you know, get our work done for the day too.
00:57:35
Speaker
And so that doesn't really answer your question. yeah So there's not there's not a specific standard on whether or not to strip the roses? so No. And if you look in the trade, if you go into any wholesale market, most of them are thorny.
00:57:47
Speaker
Okay. Good to know. In terms of the ah traditional wholesale trade, it's the forest job generally. Doesn't mean it has to be that way amongst people. new growers.
00:57:58
Speaker
um Yeah. But we do have a chart in the book also. We did base trial, a bunch of the newer, the but David Austen's and Floribundus and some of the ones that are more commonly grown, those Coco Locos and whatnot. We've assessed them just to see what do they do? So how can you, how can you sell them? So, you know, which ones you could put in a grocery bouquet, which ones you might be able to ship overnight out of water. You have a shipping section in there and we've tested a lot of things for that.
00:58:19
Speaker
And then, you know, just like which ones are like, oh, for events only. This sounds like such a great resource for the floral community. I'm so excited to order my own copy.
00:58:32
Speaker
And it almost sounds like it's kind of like a standard operating procedure that we can also use to give to our employees and those helping us in the field and say, here's exactly it It takes the guesswork out of it for when other people are helping us also.
00:58:47
Speaker
my God, that is so true. We have a copy that's just out on the table in our barn and everybody knows to go look it up if they don't remember. Because, you know, people don't always remember that how many stems were in a bunch over across the weekend, you know?
00:58:59
Speaker
and So yes, absolutely. It's super helpful for labor on the farm as well. And it's hard because it's every flower, like you said, is different. So one flower might be a three stem bunch, one might be a five, one might be a 15.
00:59:14
Speaker
And so i I think it's so helpful that this is all getting standardized because it just will make it easier for florists or wholesalers to also buy from local growers. So I just love this.
00:59:26
Speaker
Oh, thank you. And it's a takeoff point. I mean, it's a reference for, I mean, it's set for growing, you like a lot of the information is about crops that grow in our particular Northwest region, which translates differently, even across the mountains in the same state.
00:59:39
Speaker
um but there's a But that information, um we don't talk about the growing of it so much as the harvesting of it. And so I think it's relevant all over the place, but I would also say it's how our market does it. And we have a disclaimer, not a disclaimer, but a note in the front that just says, Hey, it doesn't mean you have to do it this way, but at least you can, you have something you can vary from, you know, like there's something to start with. And I've talked to people, particularly people forming collectives are all over it because it's, it's the biggest issue they immediately run into when they're trying to get to selling product together.
01:00:09
Speaker
um And of course we know because we ran into it ourselves. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, it's just such a great starting point. I mean, I get so many Instagram DMs from gardeners or newer farmers that are like, am I doing this right? How many stems should I have here? Is this long enough?
01:00:24
Speaker
And so this just takes that guesswork. Instead of having to ask 10 farmers, you're like, okay, well, some of the biggest growers in the Northwest have already said this is the standard of what they're providing the florist with. So I just love that.
01:00:36
Speaker
Oh, thank you. And i like I really want to encourage people to stay creative. Like if you've got a crop and it just doesn't have the stem length, it doesn't mean you can't sell it. Just as it may and might not be the standard height, you might call it a shorty or tips or, you know, and there's some of that in the book, but you know, i'm just it's, if it's got quality and it's just a stem length issue that has to do with whether it matches your customer or not. So remember that this is not a, um, you know, the Oxford English dictionary.
01:01:00
Speaker
This is our attempt at, at, um, create taming enough chaos to be able to make a living doing what we do. And it's certainly a work in progress too. um There's a quote in the back of the book that, I mean, that's where I like, there's no shortcuts over the Sierra and that was my quote. um oh i love that yeah yeah good It goes back to my Ann and Nat, right. And they're the pioneer roots. I mean, it's which are of course a mixed bag, you know, um but um that was certainly people with a lot of tenacity who did that.
01:01:28
Speaker
And it's like, Yeah, you just got to sometimes do the actual work. And the actual work might be daunting, but it is it can be done in steps one after another.
01:01:39
Speaker
And that's kind of my philosophy is like, okay, we need to to deliver a useful and quality product that they that takes time. hours and hours and hours of grinding technical uh interviewing and so and spreadsheeting so be it which is what is behind this book and tons and tons of different farmers contributed so there's a we figure there's the knowledge of over 200 years of knowledge in the book just from our farmers contributing oh this one works great that one don't grow that one you know but instead of that just being a conversation at the conference it's now in the book so everyone can use it you know
01:02:15
Speaker
That's amazing. ah Such great advice inside that book and so much wisdom you have imparted on us today. i know I'm eager to get a copy and I'm sure many of our listeners are also. Where can we find floral standards?
01:02:32
Speaker
um It's available on the Seattle Wholesale Growers Market website. um And i think it's just a drop-down menu, and it's just like um purchases or something like that. You drop down, it's just by the book.
01:02:43
Speaker
And we self-published, and its we didn't put it on Amazon because Amazon – but We'd be paying money to sell it on Amazon, practically the way they charge us. So we self-published and we and it's the book is seventy nine ninety five, which is a healthy price for a book.
01:02:56
Speaker
um But it's because we invested just so many hours and dollars into the production of it that it's actually you're we're actually offering it it at the ah ah but lowest price we really could afford to. um And I think it should, I think what from what I've heard from people who are using it, it's very gratifying.
01:03:11
Speaker
I mean, the whole intent was that it be actually helpful to people in farming and cutting flowers. And so um I've heard a lot of good feedback already. So yeah, just go get it if it sounds like a good thing for you. I don't think you'll regret it.
01:03:25
Speaker
Well, it's one of those things. It's a resource. You're paying for a resource that you can refer back to time and time again. It's not you're going to read it once and put it on the bookshelf and let it get dusty. It's going to be getting dirty instead out in the field with you. Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah.
01:03:41
Speaker
So, um well, I've got a couple more questions and then we'll wrap this up if that's okay. I'd love to know what excites you the most about the future of flower farming and the local flower movement.
01:03:56
Speaker
I love that we can keep people tied to the land in all ways. So I like to see it as part of the cornucopia of farming in general.
01:04:06
Speaker
And I think it's utterly critical um that as we advance into a more technological world, we also maintain our farming roots and our connection to the planet because we are, those of us who are um at least listening to this podcast, we know of are not artificial beings. We are humans and we're biological and it connects us.
01:04:27
Speaker
So that's what, that's that tying us back to the land and to the, and to ah what we're all made of. It's a very spiritual thing. It really is.
01:04:39
Speaker
What advice would you give to someone who's just starting their own flower farming journey?
01:04:46
Speaker
um I guess that sense of wonder is what starts you on your first step, right? That, that, oh my God, that thing is called the zinnia and it just opened. um You know, that sense of wonder, i would say my best advice is probably um to go ahead and, and like listen and learn and and make mistakes and, and also go ahead and keep going with your own ideas because,
01:05:10
Speaker
um you might think that your ideas are normal, but um maybe they're not. Maybe they're just how you see the world and you're unique, just like all those different value varieties are unique. And you probably have something to contribute.
01:05:22
Speaker
And there's probably something that has brought you here. And so so just keep, persist. I think persist. Persist, but do it intelligently and work with other people.
01:05:33
Speaker
work to Work to understand that you're part of a bigger industry and you have a part to play and own that. That's a really beautiful advice, Diane. Thank you so much. It has been such a delight to chat with you. And like you said earlier, I probably could chat with, still chat with you for another three hours.
01:05:51
Speaker
um But I know that we both are in our spring season and it's a busy time of year. So I want to be respectful of your time. Before we say goodbye today, where can our listeners connect with you?
01:06:04
Speaker
um So I have to confess that I got off of social media during COVID and never got back on. And I'm thinking about it and I may restart your Instagram. But meanwhile, just email me off the website. Just hit contact us on the website and and that'll be me who received that message.
01:06:21
Speaker
And I'm real happy to answer questions that way. And also the the Seattle Hustle Growers Market has an Instagram um feed that's regularly kept up and really interesting. And um if you're interested, if you're in the Seattle area and you're interested in engaging with the market in that region, then you can reach out through those channels through the co-op website.
01:06:42
Speaker
Thank you. I will include show are links and today's show notes to all of those so people can stay connected to you. Is there anything I haven't asked you today that you want to share with our listeners?
01:06:54
Speaker
No, I just appreciate your curiosity. i think that's what binds us together. And and it just really has been a lovely a privilege to talk with you. So thank you. Well, thank you, Diane. I'd love to keep the door open if you ever want to come back and chat some more flowers with me.
01:07:09
Speaker
at you know, pretty much any time. Awesome. Well, I will be sure to invite you back on the podcast again. And if anyone listening has anything specific you would like us to ask Diane, please be sure to reach out through the podcast and let me know what you'd like to hear.
01:07:24
Speaker
So I wish everyone a wonderful day and let's go sow some seeds. Thanks for joining us today.
01:07:32
Speaker
Thank you, flower friends, for joining us on another episode of the Backyard Bouquet. i hope you've enjoyed the inspiring stories and valuable gardening insights we've shared today.
01:07:43
Speaker
Whether you're cultivating your own backyard blooms or supporting your local flower farmer, you're contributing to the local flower movement. And we're so happy to have you growing with us. If you'd like to stay connected and continue this blossoming journey with local flowers, don't forget to subscribe to the Backyard Bouquet podcast.
01:08:02
Speaker
I'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to leave us a review of this episode. And finally, please share this episode with your garden friends. Until next time, keep growing, keep blooming, and remember that every bouquet starts right here in the backyard.