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The Exhibitionistas Origin Story!
218 Plays2 months ago
If this was a Friends episode, we would have titled it "The One Where Emily and Joana ask Each Other Questions". But it's not, so we decided to describe it as an origin story: we go back to the reasons why we decided to do this podcast and why it has such a distinctive format: an arts specialist and an exhibition goer candidly discussing solo exhibitions.
This intro is a way to ease into this new and promising second season, and to (re)introduce the podcast to our listeners. It's always good to go over the rules of the game. Believe me, you will be reminded that this is a feelings, research and thoughts podcast. (And if you think these don't go together, think again!)
Asking each other questions has allowed us to reveal to each other a few things we hadn't discussed, busy, as we were, with actually producing the episodes. There are a few revelations in there, self-explorations and we realise what the podcast brought us, and, by extension, our listeners. Or so we hope!
Music: Saturn.
Instagram: exhibitionistas_podcast.
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Transcript
Welcome to Season Two
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello, exhibitionistas! We are back. I am Johanna, the co-host of this podcast, where we visit exhibitions so that you have to. And we're so glad to be in your presence. This is the first episode of season two, where we'll just go back and share our thoughts and our feelings about the first season,
00:00:33
Speaker
And where we'll dig a bit deeper into the reasons why we
Reflecting on the Past and Future
00:00:38
Speaker
do this. So this is going to be a conversation between Emily and myself. And it's also a way to introduce this new season that has some really really Fascinating people coming up really good episodes. Yeah, exactly We're doing a little bit of the recap that you get on Netflix when you're watching a show, right? It's like a little bit of a look back of what happened in the first season, you know some light touch ah Remembrances, but you're not going to skip over this
00:01:07
Speaker
this is ah This is one not
Podcast Origins and Impact
00:01:09
Speaker
to miss. So we'll kind of ease in, as Joanna mentioned, and share some thoughts on on the previous season, some of the you know some of the things that have been lingering in our minds, and a bit of an origin story for how and why this all began. I'm really looking forward to asking you a few questions, Emily, because Sometimes we're so busy and we're so like, you know, what should we do? Have you done the research on this? And we go over our scripts and actually we didn't really ask ourselves the tough questions or the pleasurable questions. So maybe I will throw in the first question now. What do you think? Let's do it. I'm really curious, Emily. What did you think?
00:01:53
Speaker
when I asked you to do this podcast with me, what was like your immediate gut reaction? Yeah, my immediate reaction was a very easy yes. I mean, I actually remember where I was when I got the text message from you, which, you know, it's great that it was a text message. Hey, let's do an arts podcast.
00:02:14
Speaker
You know, I, um you know, I was in my living room, my sister was visiting, I announced to the room, Joanna wants to do an arts podcast together. And both Peter and Molly were like, cool, do it. And I mean, I think, you know, I think there was a vast underappreciation
Art Appreciation and Personal Growth
00:02:31
Speaker
of the amount of time that it would take. definitely Which was part of what made it easy.
00:02:39
Speaker
So delusion played a part. But also I think, look, we've known each other a long time. It has always been one of the great joys of my life to you know go and see exhibitions with you and chat with you about them and see some of it through your eyes and still have my own distinct experience. you know That has been wonderful. So it felt like a very natural extension of that. The art world, as we know, is not my expertise, and it is your expertise. And you have a great way of inviting people in. you've been I mean, you've had a great way of inviting me in, I should say. And I liked the idea of sharing that experience with other people. I mean, I know that there's a lot of folks who listen to this podcast who are steeped in the art world as you are, but I like the notion of
00:03:32
Speaker
you know making those barriers between regular person, regular Jane, and the art world, making those more porous, and you know making yeah you know people feel welcome. As I feel more welcome, the more I know about the place and you know kind of the ins and outs. of So what I want to say here is, yes, you were outside of the art world, but you already had something that made you go to exhibitions and you have that ability to not only experience them,
00:04:09
Speaker
but also be able to connect them to real feelings, real experiences. um So you're not just coming as a complete yeah um sort of null entity that knows nothing, feels nothing, knew nothing. and you know So you already had, I mean, that's why.
Creating Accessible Art Dialogue
00:04:33
Speaker
I invited you to do this there's already some you had a foot in there like family yeah yeah totally there was there was already uh you know a relationship and a fascination built for sure you know of going to exhibitions but But I mean, I guess a follow up question to you, Joanna, is why did you want to start this podcast and why do you think it would be a good fit for us? Yes. So I didn't remember about the text message. Now that I'm thinking about it, I was like, wow, I texted her rather than calling her and saying, listen, I have an idea and please give me five minutes to convince you. Yeah. So about the podcast, I did think about audiences. And first of all, I thought about myself as audience.
00:05:16
Speaker
Emily, by the way, so I was going to say, I listened to podcasts a lot and I realized the other day that you were the person who introduced me to podcasts. What? No way. So what comes around goes around. Yes, yes, yes. A badge of honor right here. What goes around comes around, badge of honor. I remember you introducing me to this American life and in my brain going like,
00:05:42
Speaker
podcasts? What the heck is that? Yeah, we met in 2012, right? So podcasts were kind of, yeah you know, it was, I mean, This American Life obviously was a radio show that just turned into a podcast, but but yeah, they were pretty yeah kind of new then. They were for sure.
00:06:00
Speaker
They weren't the thing they are now. Well, they were for me, I can tell you that. And ever since then, I listened to podcasts religiously. I love them. And I listened to podcasts about absolutely everything. It really is a lesson to listen to people talk about what they're passionate about. And then I realized that I didn't listen to a lot of podcasts about art and I felt deeply ashamed. So I looked for podcasts about art, started listening to them, and most of them our interviews with artists. And some artists are incredible at talking about their craft. They're just inspiring. Others, not so much. And also the frame of the interviews is always so serious that sometimes you kind of think, oh okay,
00:06:44
Speaker
I'm going for a run. I never go for runs, but you know, like a hypothetical run that I will never go to. But like I'm going for a run. I need to listen to something. You are not going to listen to someone talking about poststructuralism. To an artist pretending to understand what they mean about that. So I just thought there is nothing out there apart from very few ones. There's um the great women podcasts, great women artists podcast by Katie Hassell, there's Ben Luke who's an amazing interviewer, um but still always with the same thing if an interview with said person who makes the work and I thought
00:07:24
Speaker
That's a problem with contemporary art. And because I work in contemporary art, that's the problem. We make it so inaccessible. We make it so that you have to feel that you understand. It's like you're doing an exam and a lot of people who don't work in the art world tell me, oh, you know, oh, you work in contemporary art. You know, I don't know anything about contemporary art, but I do appreciate you working, you know. And I'm like, God damn, what are we doing?
00:07:50
Speaker
that we are not we are rendering the most amazing of things, which is art, so inaccessible to people. And so I wanted to work on a podcast with someone who would bring me down from my theoretical natural state. The idea was really to have the same thing you have in other areas of art and creativity, which is just two people talking about the art itself rather than kind of getting the same concepts you have in
00:08:22
Speaker
at university, in you know magazines of the specialty. you know Because when you go to your doctor, your doctor doesn't explain what's wrong with you in medical terms that they would use with their colleagues. They dumb it down for you, but not in a stupid way, in ah in ah in a human way that you can understand and that you can connect to.
00:08:45
Speaker
And we don't do that in contemporary art often enough. So that's why I wanted to do this. And I have to say, putting humility aside, i think we're I think we're the only format or one of the
Demystifying Art for Everyone
00:08:56
Speaker
only formats that does that, that just talks about with passion, with openness, the experience of being in the presence of an artwork and just having the most amazing conversations about it and having the pleasure to give time to it.
00:09:11
Speaker
and also to be mindful of the fact that you're sharing it with other people and you have to be understandable and you have to connect to people. So yeah, that's what I wanted. Sorry, I feel like I'm lecturing you. No, not at all. I'm looking at you like really passionately, but i'm I'm lecturing myself and my own field basically. Preach girl. So that's, yeah.
00:09:34
Speaker
I couldn't agree more. i mean i think you know that is you know As someone who's spent a lot of time with doctors lately, they i wish they did I wish they did speak in more ah colloquial terms. but But yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And it's like there is just that experience of being in an exhibition that is so unique and so unlike anything else. And often people go there alone, you know, and it's like to have a place to talk about what that experience is like as much as you can. I mean, you know, talking about the experience of art is a bit like maybe dancing about architecture or something. Like I think your, you know, instincts about
00:10:21
Speaker
going into art through this niche of exhibitions and looking at it through that that being the portal to this wider thing is yeah is really exciting. And I i hope it i hope it yeah brings people in and makes them feel like they can connect with art in a way that they might not have otherwise. Nothing gives him more joy than to see people listening to the podcast all over the world because the exhibition really is an excuse. And we make huge efforts in describing the exhibitions because we realize that most people who listen won't experience those exhibitions. So it really is an excuse to kind of dig into the work of an artist. I have a question for you. I have another one. So because maybe because you'd not steeped into the the art world, I'm really
Art's Emotional and Healing Power
00:11:12
Speaker
curious. But you went to see exhibitions before.
00:11:15
Speaker
Has any of the experiences we talked about um have an impact on your life? you know Being quite a casual exhibition goer previously and now it being a much more regular diet of exhibitions and exhibitions that I would have never gone to, that artists I would have never sought out and galleries I would have never sought out before. I think one thing that that I've really noticed in the hiatus since we last met for the podcast is how much I've missed it. There is you know the sense of discovery that they bring and the sense of
00:11:56
Speaker
There's something about being in a place with other people regarding the same thing. you know You're not having the same experience, but there is something about being in a place where people are regarding things and maybe reflecting on things or experiencing things you know in a way that you might not be, and that's so palpable. I don't know that I considered that quite as deeply or as much previous to the podcast and you know kind of acknowledging how enriching that is. There's you know this and internal processing thing that's happening in a public place with other people. you know I mean, at Yoko Ono, it's like, oh my gosh, is somebody on the floor there in a bag creating their own art? It's like, how cool is that? you know that's
00:12:49
Speaker
It's just something you can't get anywhere else. I mean, that that I remember the feeling I got when I walked into Zainab Salah's show at Tate Britain, and it was like, you know, overcome with calm I became. I think the second observation about art that I don't think I really fully appreciated before doing the podcast is its healing nature.
00:13:17
Speaker
So earlier on the year, a friend of mine was splitting from their spouse. And when they told me the news, they were like, okay, well, let's meet at the Wallace kind Collection. There's a painting there that they were like, this just really speaks to me and I just want to go see it right now because I'm in a vulnerable place. I think for me, especially contemporary art gets couched in a very cerebral place.
00:13:52
Speaker
And you know I think that the experience of going to so many exhibitions in a row has really opened up the much more emotional landscape of them for me. And I think I appreciate that a lot more than I used to. I mean, when I was a more casual goer, I think that I usually left, and I mean, I still do to a certain degree, left with a head full of ideas. But I think now I'm leaving exhibitions with a lot more to feel about, if that makes sense. Do you remember this Ethan Hawke TED Talk that he did during COVID? I liked it. So not a particularly new idea, but Ethan Hawke had this TED Talk a few years ago about creativity and, you know, it says that like the society pushback against art is like, oh, what's the point? Like, what are you going to do with that? Oh, well, it's just Agnes Martin put some lines on a thing. And like, what's the point?
00:14:52
Speaker
And you know people people who can be dismissive of art can say things like that and until a loved one dies or they have a health scare or a big professional setback or something like that. And then they reach for that song or that poem or you know that piece in the Wallace Collection. The painting. Exactly. Yeah. and And then it's those times when we are most vulnerable and all of that that we that we seek it out and but this idea of healing in art has kind of been out on my mind because of the famous my Maggie Nelson book called On Freedom that I keep yapping about and that I've read a few times now I mean I there's four texts in it and the first one it's about the notion of freedom and the first one is freedom in art
00:15:44
Speaker
and some really, really interesting texts and quite thought provoking. And she does say that, you know, the punk, upset, the bourgeoisie kind of thing in art has been replaced by this notion of healing. And she quotes Helen Molesworth, who's done the Death of an Artist podcast and who's a curator.
00:16:04
Speaker
as having written that in Art Forum in 2016, I think. A lot of artists listen to the podcast and what a pressure to put on an artist's creativity, you know, to have that healing power. um And I find myself a bit with Maggie Nelson, although I'm completely with this, I'm working with a lot of artists who are working with the notions of care and notions of healing and notions of balancing out the body and finding out how to be a body rather rather than being in a body which I there's a big difference and I think a lot of artists are working on it but this idea of healing and just going to art when you're feeling bad the child in me goes like uh you know because I always drew so much pleasure from art and so much joy and so much hope of things not just being what I was seeing them to be like I remember when I was a child
00:17:01
Speaker
in in Lisbon and going to the museum and reading, just thinking, okay, I'm so relieved. The world is not just what's in front of me, which is really boring. It's so boring. I'm bored. And I know there's other possibilities out there. and So I think there's that as well. There's that of going to the museums and just thinking, huh, you can live in yellow.
00:17:28
Speaker
yeah And yellows are really, I remember us talking about blue with Zeynep Salah and just thinking, huh, I never thought about blue so much and colors. and And that made me so happy. And that made me so joyful. And I stayed in that thing for a while of because you kind of bring me into that because you you also may bring me into the feelings more than to the, and or connecting feelings with thoughts and making them more enjoyable and full and and and complex.
00:18:02
Speaker
you know So yeah, I mean, there's also that. But I do understand, I saw that ah Ethan Hawke thing on Instagram, and I was just like, thank you, Ethan Hawke, thank you. Because I saw these collectors um in DC, and they only collect conceptual art. So they have like the most cold, rigid, I mean, I'm not saying that this is these are not my opinion. This is what their friends tell them. They're like, you have, you know, stuff with words on them on the walls and, you know, and then photos and text and lines and, you know, like the coldest of color, that the this mathematical coldness of conceptual art. And they have the love on koara.
00:18:46
Speaker
And On Kawara has these postcards where they they they just send um postcards to people or write or do um drawings and paintings with dates on them. And the postcards usually say i yeah there's a date and it says I'm still alive or I'm alive.
00:19:07
Speaker
um And so the the friends of this couple, there's it's a couple, who started by collecting like the most political expressionist or post expressionist German art and went completely of the other way. They were telling me that they had a, hor they were in a horrible train accident a few years back. And yeah, and they were already elderly at the time. They're quite, ah quiet I think they're in their 80s now.
00:19:35
Speaker
And so she was okay. She was hurt, but she was okay. He was in a very bad state in hospital. And one day, one of their friends was talking to her, asking how he was doing. And she was saying, you know, we don't know, he's not out of the woods yet. And they looked at her and were like, do you know what? You know, there aren't kawara pieces you have. I get them now. I get them.
00:20:03
Speaker
the the time, the dates, the marking of being here, this feeling of being here, and the possibility of losing our friend. I yeah i get it. Even if there is you know just that fleeting moment of your deepest, darkest time, and you see a piece of art that moves you and consoles you,
00:20:29
Speaker
If that's the only time you've ever seen art, to me, it's like, wow, brilliant, amazing. You've been going to exhibitions professionally for for many, many moons, you know, as a curator, as things that you've done yourself that you are reviewing or interviewing artists or what have you.
00:20:50
Speaker
I mean, is there anything different about the way that you experience exhibitions for the podcast than how you have experienced them in other professional guises? I was trying to see if you'd skip that question. That's a difficult one. yeah No, it's just shameful what I'm going to say. I have to admit it, ever since we started the podcasts, I have to say that I have a feeling of reuniting with the the excitement and the joy and the depth of experience that I did before I started working in contemporary art.
Podcast's Personal Influence on Hosts
00:21:32
Speaker
And it's that old thing, isn't it? When you work in the field that you love, that job may kill the love you have for that field. One of the reasons why I wanted to do the podcast is that I like travel a lot for work.
00:21:46
Speaker
And I spent a lot of time away from London and I realized that I was missing a lot of shows because when I would come back to London, I'd be like, no, this is home. i'm I'm very, I'm an introvert. I love being at home. I have to write quite a lot. So, you know, it was a good excuse not to leave the house, um to be with kids and to be, you know, with family and just be in a cozy, nice place and not be challenged again by those artists And so I realized that I wasn't going, I was missing a lot of shows in London. And also when I went there, I was running and I'll be like, okay, done this, did that, you know, and didn't even look up the artists. And I was falling prey to what I was saying about in the beginning, which is that when you read a book, you're like, oh, who is this Miranda July? Oh, I'm gonna look her up. And oh, she lives in California. ohnya Oh, she's so whatever years old. and
00:22:44
Speaker
She's in her fifties or whatever. And you kind of like, Oh, I'm going to listen to and an interview of hers. And I wouldn't do that in my own field. I'd be like, well, you know, I know more or less, okay. Nigerian artists in their thirties. Okay. I see more or less, but no, you don't, you know, nothing. You absolutely, you always have to, I know what I do, even when I'm talking about Agnes Martin, I will always start from the beginning again.
00:23:11
Speaker
And I did that in the beginning. And now with the podcast, I i have that mindfulness of no, you don't know Agnes Martin. I do. I read a lot of books about her and read the biography, but no, I don't. Go back to the beginning. Dig deep into what interested you in that sense and we go back and reread or rewatch or read look again, because you think you know, but you don't, because art's not about knowing.
00:23:41
Speaker
It's about where you're at in your life. I mean, there's books I read to the lighthouse regularly. I love Virginia Woolf is one of my, you know, big discoveries when I was a kid. And I reread that all the time. And in the beginning, I would identify with ah the young painter. And now I'm with the mother, the angel of the house that you supposedly have to kill, according to Virginia Woolf. The main character, the wife, the mother,
00:24:07
Speaker
um And, you know, you always have to go back. it's That's the beauty of art. It keeps changing because you keep changing. And you have to bring that into the work as a curator. And I do it with my artists and I do it with my people and my my shows and my texts, but... i have to say I have to say, I love, I didn't know what you were going to say, dev you know just kind of coming at it from a different angle, revives that passion and love and interest. And and I love that the podcast is doing that for you. And I think that's such a great yeah you know kind of thing to remind yourself of you know about things that you are passionate about. It's like there are hidden depths
00:24:52
Speaker
Or there are you know there there's ways of seeing it that will help revive that um you know that thing that got you into it in the first place. Is there an episode that surprised you? or that you weren't expecting to do what it did to you or an exhibition that you were expecting to feel a certain way about and ended up being completely different to what your expectations were. So many. I mean, where to start, really? Where to start?
00:25:25
Speaker
I mean, you know, certainly em Marina Abramovich, as I was going in to buy the ticket, suddenly wondering, God, is she gonna be, she's not gonna be here, is she? Like, she's a performance artist. Like, this is a retrospective of her stuff. Like, how's this gonna work? And not considering that at all until the moment I got there. I was just looking, thinking about that show. That was such a great show, wasn't it? I mean, just the amount of work she's done and just the,
00:25:55
Speaker
trails she blazed with it and how the recreation of it I mean, I just think they did such a fantastic job of making something ephemeral, very present and alive in that space. I mean, hats off, RA. My normal go-to is like, okay, I've got to see this exhibition. Life is very full and busy. I'm going to give myself 45 minutes or whatever. Maybe I'm here over lunch or something.
00:26:29
Speaker
And what i what I'm always surprised by is how, once you're in it, for me anyway, it's usually quite transcendent. It's like that feeling, that hurriedness will melt away. How about you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what surprised me the most was the feeling that I always had but I got really, but that was more kind of like a theoretical or an ethical stance of unreliability of liking or disliking something. o And the, because we have to put ourselves in the research mode and trying to do a sort of an expose about the artists that we talk about, it always,
00:27:25
Speaker
brings me to a point where I'm like, I'm making myself available for this work. And if I don't connect to it, I may connect later. But I do have um i do have a sense of where these people are coming from.
00:27:44
Speaker
and the work that is being made is there in a genuine effort to connect to themselves and to the audience. It has surprised me how much I enjoy being open and even sometimes going against what I very naturally and viscerally feel when I visit an exhibition. I studied art criticism. I read all the Clemen Greenbergs and the Lucille Epards and all of those art critics and how art criticism was about how this artist has it or doesn't, how they understood the zeitgeist or they didn't, how they failed miserably like, you know, when Guston started doing
00:28:31
Speaker
and he's kind of like comics oriented imagery and how everyone's like he's lost the plot you know yeah and now that's why healing is coming into place because we know that art is not It's not marketing, it's not it's not a sort of competition to see the artist that gets it better because whatever that it is, is up for grabs. Who knows what art is doing? you know Who knows what it's there for and who knows why we do it? And the reality is there's more and more artists and more and more space for art in our society now.
00:29:11
Speaker
um like we reconnect into prehistoric times where people went into caves and were like, yeah, let's just do a mammoth. you know yeah We don't eat them, but you know let's just draw them and let's just do some codes, some um some stuff that means something that kind of resembles the words we use in our mouths.
00:29:30
Speaker
And let's just let go and do stuff in in these on these walls and these you know tablets that we're making of clay. And then you know and and these these vases are look so empty. Let's just put some indents into them. and you know And we're making space for that. And that's really amazing. And who am I to just go and say,
00:29:54
Speaker
That's crap. That's bullshit. Unless I see, I think that there's always, you know, you can never be, you know, there's always something. Unless I see that there's a trend, that I feel it's completely empty, but I don't think we would do an episode.
00:30:13
Speaker
on one of those exhibitions. I don't think that would be very helpful because there's a lot of trendiness you know ah supported by market and you know that's the and i' I'm not very interested in going in there. And also who am I again to say maybe one of those artists that I find is in responding to a certain trend may just grow and become like this amazing creative force. I mean, who knows? you know yeah So yeah, I think that's that was the biggest surprise. you know I remember noticing that about you very early on when we would see art was just your just just your openness to being like, look, this is their art. Let's not think about it in terms of good or bad or what they should have done or the silly or not silly or whatever.
00:31:00
Speaker
but you know just the fact that you just were looking at it objectively and and subjectively, but not in a way that was there to tear it down. I remember some of the early you know times of going to galleries and just like, hey, I'm going here to this thing. You want to come? And I'd come and not know anything about it and just be you know in my sort of kind of Luddite, you know sort of new to art way, be like, I don't know if I get this. And you would, you know, you'd be like, well, like this is what they were doing, and this is why it was new at the time. And da dahta and that way that you have of being with art, I think it's really special because it's not the binary good, bad, this, that, but is is part of what I think, you know, certainly brought me in deeper. I don't really care about technique.
00:31:59
Speaker
i I don't find that's very important. you know I think we were that was one of the big problems with classicism and you know the and and also why some artists were completely discarded. you know At some point Botticelli was horrible. You could not look at Botticelli or you could not look at Chagall. And then suddenly it's like, oh, there's amazing art.
00:32:25
Speaker
Because whatever the parameters were for a good technique or a bad technique changed and shifted. And that's not what moves you because the thing is when you look at children's drawings, they're perfect always. Like you could have a museum of every family's children's drawings and it would just fill your heart with joy. I mean, it's just amazing and perfect.
00:32:47
Speaker
and they don't have any particular, I mean they have their own techniques, they develop their own idiosyncrasies and they are taught at school like to hold a pencil like this or to hold, but then you know they develop their own way of of doing things and um and I think that's the thing. If you get to that place, I don't care if your technique is not good, it you can sense that there's a genuine intentionality, there's a presence there. And that's what counts for me. I really, you know, some people are like, because it was such good. I really, that does not speak to me at all. I don't care about it. It's not, it's not what draws me to an artwork for sure. There is knowledge though, there is skill, but I think
00:33:33
Speaker
that that the artist develops their own skill. One of the other things that I have loved and has surprised me about this podcast is just the
Global Reach and Listener Engagement
00:33:43
Speaker
listeners. I mean, they are coming in from all over. You can see that the moment a new episode drops, it'll be like,
00:33:54
Speaker
people in South Korea have picked it up. and it's you know that That has just been such a joy to see or you know all over Southeast Asia and Europe. and kind of I don't know, I guess areas I might not have expected to be you know kind of natural listenerships.
00:34:13
Speaker
And the the questions that you put on Instagram and the answers that we get have been such a joy and have led to so many discoveries of my own of you know exhibitions or artists that you know I haven't heard of that are you know, have just been great to be exposed to. So I love the fact that there's so many ideas and so much energy coming in from the listeners
Preview of Upcoming Episodes
00:34:40
Speaker
that's been great. So this this first episode is to just for you to get reacquainted with us or maybe to get to know us for the first time. Maybe you're a first listener and you just have
00:34:53
Speaker
ah ah a conversation between two people about art from here on during the second season, we will be doing episodes about exhibitions in London. And boy, are there exhibitions in London for you to look forward to. So if you can't make it to London, we will we're here for you. If you can, we're we'll be doing some episodes about these amazing shows. So the first one is going to be Tracey Yemen at Y Cube, So that's the first episode we have after this one prepared. ah The second or the third one, I think it's going to be the second, is another feature of the curve space at the Barbican with Pamela Fazimo Sundstrom.
00:35:39
Speaker
And finally, so we have lined up three episodes. So if you have suggestions for the following ones, by all means, please reach out to us. The third one, that would be nice. I mean, we'd love to hear from you. And the third one is going to be a biggie, Mike Kelly at the Tate, Tate Modern. So three episodes lined up that you can look forward to. And we look forward to sharing them with you.
00:36:08
Speaker
Absolutely. This is a wrap. Thank you so much. Thank you, Emily. Yeah, this has been great. Yeah. And thank you. I mean, it's just been, you know, it's been really nice to look back at the first season and think about the terrain that we have traversed in the art world in London. And just for me personally, and just my own relationship with art and you know, the relationship with the listeners and and hearing, you know, what what they see and what they feel and what they hear and what they're interested in. And it's just been such a joy. So yeah, thank you. Thank you, Emily. And we'll see you very, very, very soon. Take care. Bye bye. Thanks so much. Bye bye.