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Festivities Episode (with Surprise Guest) ✨
140 Plays1 month ago
We’re wrapping up 2024 with a friends & family celebration.
And what a year it has been: Exhibitionistas was born.
So, to celebrate kinship of all kinds through art, we decided to invite a special guest who has been steeped in art since birth, Joana’s daughter, artist and dancer Constança Saturnino.
How does growing up with an artist and a curator influence your idea of art?
Follow us on Instagram: @exhibitionistas_podcast
You can also check out Constança's work on Instagram: @saturn.conch
Check out her handpoke tattoo Instagram: @field.trail
Or her website: https://www.constancasaturnino.com
Please remember to support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/exhibitionistaspodcast/membership
Music by Sarturn.
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Transcript
Introducing Constanza Saturnino
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome back to Exhibitionistas. Emily here. I'm so glad that you could join us. We have a great show for you today. ah In the spirit of the holidays, we've invited along Joanna's daughter, Constanza Saturnino. She's a young artist living in London. And this conversation really looks at the perspective of art from someone who grew up really, really steeped in in art with her entire family being artistically minded and someone who's found her own way within it. It's a great insight. I found it a great insight into how a young artist is holding her art and is defining her art in her own way.
Artistic Upbringing in the Family Edition
00:01:00
Speaker
And not to mention she is just a wonderful person.
00:01:05
Speaker
So thanks so much for joining. Thanks so much for listening in. And I hope that you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
00:01:28
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this Family Edition episode where I, Joanna, invited my daughter to talk about growing up, going to exhibitions, and eventually studying contemporary dance to take all this experience into an artistic practice. This is an opportunity for me as a mom to ask her questions that normally I wouldn't think to ask. And my lovely co-host Emily is here to
Cultural Experiences and Artistic Names
00:01:56
Speaker
poke this dynamic. So first of all, um hello, Konsha. Thank you for being here and welcome to this side of the podcast, the recorded site.
00:02:08
Speaker
Hello, very excited to be here. Yeah, it's so nice to see you, Consch. I'm really, really excited to have this conversation with you. As I was saying earlier, I follow you on Instagram, so this is like a big, big treat to kind of delve into the art you've been making and, you know, kind of where it all came from, especially as, you know, Joanna mentions that you grew up in this milieu of you know contemporary art your entire life. um So yeah, so thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Well, first of all, I have to say that um you do not have my name or your dad's name, and you decided to go with another name. So I'm going to introduce you as Constanza Saturnino.
00:02:55
Speaker
which is very weird to pronounce with an English accent. It is. I don't think I've ever done that. Pronounce it as it's meant to be pronounced. Go ahead. coursetanza That's it.
Exploring the Movie 'Tar'
00:03:08
Speaker
So much more beautiful ring, I must say.
00:03:13
Speaker
So, well, first of all, I'm going to ask you ladies our usual question, which is how was your week in culture? What have you been watching, reading?
00:03:24
Speaker
eating um Any of that you want to put out there? The thing that we watched this week was much belated. It came out a year ago. It's the movie Tar, which Joanna, you and I have discussed before and have rival views on. is i I loved it. i thought it was I thought it was really great. So this is Kate Blanchett, and um she plays this maestro that heads up this the Berlin Orchestra.
00:03:55
Speaker
And the it's it's like more than two and a half hours long. And I love the way, I love the ponderousness of it. I love sort of the length of time it takes to build this story. And essentially, to me, it was it was you know right in the right in the opening scene, she talks about the conductor's role in time.
00:04:22
Speaker
and that it's the conductor's role is manipulating time and you know she talks about how you know the music doesn't start until I make it start. So just these absolutely kind of grandiose feelings she has about the role that she has as a maestro But but kind of that that is the through line as well. i mean She is a woman on the precipice of a major breakdown and you know she's she's looking at midlife and she's you know she's pondering her own
00:04:58
Speaker
you know her own you know death, but also like her own relevance, because she in in one scene you see she is doing a guest lecture at Juilliard, and she's confronted with the next generation that have very different ideas than she has about how to behold music.
00:05:19
Speaker
and And I feel like it's a death there. So she's kind of seeing the exit of her generation's ideals. She's a Gen X-er. So Joanna, you and I can maybe identify or at least understand, you know, it's like totally where she's coming from. And and so it's like a ah death in that sense, too. And um yeah, I just thought it was I thought it was a really unusual film filmed really unusually.
00:05:49
Speaker
um And there's a there's a review that Zadie Smith wrote about it in New York books. And the review itself was nominated for a Pulitzer. I had no idea about this. Yeah. Oh, I didn't. Yeah. And and i it's really worth a read. I mean, there's you know there's not many movies, I think, that don't really tell you exactly where it's going to go.
00:06:19
Speaker
I mean, this could have easily been a movie, you know and I think part of you know your critique is is the right one, Joanna, about the role of genius and kind of that over ah Emphasized thing and it it has a lot of that but it's it is Ultimately about the Achilles heel of that, you know in the movie and this is one thing that Zadie Smith points out in her review is ah Kate Blanchett and her wife have a daughter and when the daughter is upset in the middle of the night She likes people to come in and hold her feet so you have Kate Blanchett going into the bedroom and
00:07:01
Speaker
and holding this little girl's feet to calm her down. And, you know, kind of mentioning the link to Achilles heel, you know, kind of holding that Achilles heel, you know, very, very gently. And, you know, but her being completely oblivious to her own Achilles heel, which is her enormous hubris, the way she manipulates people, all of the ways that she benignly, like on the on the face of it, she's not a tyrant, but she is someone who just plays people. She's playing everyone. And um yeah, and so that that sort of abuse of power and the way that she does it, I just i just really found it super intriguing.
00:07:49
Speaker
That's wonderful. I'm not going to say anything else about because I've watched it like I think when it came out. um So my memory of the film is not very fresh.
00:08:01
Speaker
So I'll just leave it to yeah your impression of it. You've almost convinced me.
Reflections on 'The Last Sane Woman' and Feminism
00:08:06
Speaker
How about you, Konsha? How was your week in culture? It was great. I finished a book in, I think, three days, which is a world record for me. I'm dyslexic, so it takes me a really long time. I love to read, but I'm just a little bit slow.
00:08:23
Speaker
um And it was ah The Last Sane Woman by Hannah Riegel. It's about an artist who is kind of feeling a little bit lost in, she works with clay, she's a potter.
00:08:44
Speaker
and feeling a a bit disconnected from her practice and her life and work and so she ends up in this ah feminist archive and discovers these letters which are in exchange ah between two friends but you only have one side of the and of that exchange. The artist's side and not the friend side. That's right, yes. It turns out that this ah artist who at the time of writing is the same age of this um of the main character who's in the present
00:09:24
Speaker
ah and is also a potter and an artist and kind of going through very similar things, but from completely different ah time periods. And then you also have the woman on the other side that you don't get to have the the letters, but ah she also appears. Hannah Rigo is so amazing at jumping between these three women throughout the book. The relationships of these women, whether romantic or friendships,
00:09:52
Speaker
They're so well incorporated but never kind of... never take the forefront, especially when it's the the relationships. I really enjoy that they appear and you think you're gonna find out more about their you know their love interests, and but they just kind of disappear and it's not the it's not the focal point of their, it's really about their work and their struggles through ah life as artists and as a woman. Wow, that sounds incredible. And so how old are these women? You said they're all relatively the same age, but in different eras.
00:10:26
Speaker
I think 25, but I'm wondering, am I projecting? <unk> Because dear listeners, Guangxi is 25 years old and also makes things. and Yeah, how funny would it be if they're not 25.
00:10:48
Speaker
I do that quickly, yeah. You did, gi so Concha came to my room. I was in bed and she was like, you have to read this. I don't want to be alone in this. You have to read this book. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. I was just waking up or going to work. And I read the first pages and when she goes into the archive, she asks for material about a woman who's struggling to do to make things. I think that's the question. ah just ah incredible oh It's just amazing, best the best art of a book. What about you Joanna?
Research on Irene Buarc
00:11:22
Speaker
Oh, well, so I traveled to Lisbon. I dove into my research for my book, The Female Drawing Machines, and visited a brilliant artist called Irene Buarc.
00:11:39
Speaker
ah so Irene Buwahki, I guess, um who emigrated from Brazil to Lisbon in 1973. She is now going through her eighth decade on the planet and she arrives in Portugal in that year and she finds it sad and lonely. There's only elderly people and children because all the young men are at war in Africa, in the ex colonies. And ah then 1974 arrives and the revolution takes place. And she never left the country. She stayed there her whole life. And it was just so profoundly ah moving and
00:12:31
Speaker
nuanced to talk to someone who has gone through the 60s, the 50s, the 60s, the 70s as an artist under a dictatorship and how she came to Portugal because she was interested in concrete poetry. And she knew about, so there's this relation, this transatlantic relation between Portugal and and Brazil through concrete poetry, through experimental poetry,
00:13:00
Speaker
And so when she went to Portugal, it was because she was really interested in what was being done in Lisbon, or, you know, in the country, but particularly in Lisbon. And she knew the poets, Eugénie Melichage, through, ah maybe Salette Tavage already, you know, these people were doing such groundbreaking work with words on paper and taking it to kind of the visual arts as well. um And you think,
00:13:29
Speaker
When I think back to those days, I think about constraint and oppression, torture, prisons, you know, and but for her, it was coming from a dictatorship that had become really, really horrible from 68 onward and coming to Europe and to talk to these peers. Those are the moments in this um profession, I think, where you just find these folds in time and in history that are really, really exciting. Great. So um can I ask the first question?
00:14:02
Speaker
Sure. Okay. And when you when you kind of think about your growing up, like ah what place does art have in it? And when did you first notice it? Because I mean, you were so enmeshed in it, I imagine, you know, from your parents that it could almost just be sort of the air you're breathing. and Totally. And so when did you kind of start to notice it as a thing?
Influence of Father's Artistic Process
00:14:30
Speaker
There was this moment when I realized that the the work that my dad was making, because I would see most of his life he's worked at home, not in a studio outside of the home. And even when he does have studios, I think he really likes working at home.
00:14:49
Speaker
And so I would see him work, you know, all the time. um But I remember as if it was yesterday, the moment that I realized that what he spent hours doing, you know, sweat, blood and tears,
00:15:05
Speaker
um that he that it that he would sell it and that it would disappear from his life and that you probably wouldn't see a lot of those works again. And I remember realizing that and going and going up to him saying, dad, how did you let go of what you just spent ages making? And I guess I was a kid as well, so when I was you know making my things or I have my toys or I have the drawing I just made and I'm so proud of it, I'm keeping those things um a lot of what I'm making as a kid I'm keeping it and realizing that what he's playing with and making he has to give it away and I just remember thinking that's how did you do that how did you say goodbye um and and he and he was so amazing and he said you know he gets to a point where
00:15:55
Speaker
i'm i I'm working on something and I give it my all and i and I love it so much and I get to spend so much time with it but it gets to a ah the magical part is that it gets to a point where It's not mine anymore. I get to share that, what I've experienced. I get to share that with someone else. And so it's letting go, but it's also letting it carry on in a different way. I really, I really enjoyed listening to to his answer. Part of me, the kids part of me was still like, oh, but still go. The shock for me is sometimes speaking with artists who have a hard time letting go of their work. I'm always like, really? Because I'm so used to seeing someone who's like, sure, this is going to go
00:16:39
Speaker
somewhere and i'm I'm letting go of it because this is my way of communicating with people. That really is his language yeah more than any other language.
00:16:52
Speaker
even skateboarding or surfing that he practiced for so many hours. And the you know that's not his way of that's his way of communicating with himself. And art is his way of communicating with other people. So I'm not surprised that that's what he answered. At the same time, we we we do get to spend so much time with the work that he makes. I would see it every single day. I would see it evolving. At certain times, he's working on certain themes And so you're seeing him build these collections. And so even though it doesn't end up on the walls, we we have so we do get to spend so much time with it in the making, but also
00:17:34
Speaker
they'll be you know They might not be on the wall, but they'll be on the table. I get nostalgic sometimes because i I then see images or he's bringing something back that he was doing a long time ago and I see those works and I think, wow, I spent i remember the time of my life when you were working with this and we were spending months and years with this around the house and now it's in someone else's house or you're bringing it back and it's nice to see that again. and So even though we don't put things on the walls, it we do get to spend such a ah wonderful amount of time with the work in a different way than it being on the wall, which is nice.
00:18:11
Speaker
And can I just say, I love this answer so much. Of all of the ways you could answer that, like how did how did art arrive in your mind and heart and soul that you first noticed? You could have gone, oh, we went to a museum, or you know we had a book, or mom curated something. and i mean But just the fact that you know your entry point is this,
00:18:39
Speaker
outpouring of intention and creation that your dad had just to spirit it away to its life wherever it's going, kind of that you know detachment, as you say, or just kind of that passing along of you know Joanna, what you're saying, what he has to say.
00:19:00
Speaker
and and really that emphasis of passing it on. Because it would have been a different thing, I think, if he if he had felt the way a lot of other artists feel, which is like, this is mine now. you know Or that instinct that we all have, like you had when you were a kid of this is mine. I may have this wrong, but what I'm hearing is like art is almost a thing that it isn't something
Art as a Natural Part of Life
00:19:22
Speaker
you keep. At least you're introductory to it, which is yeah Yeah, yeah, so you mentioned drawing which is obviously your dad's is that's his main um his main medium um What do you remember? I mean, obviously you're a kid you're coloring you're making stuff I mean all the kids are artists all the time doing certain things Do you remember a time or was there a time when you were like, okay? I'm gonna try to make art III I would I never sort of
00:19:54
Speaker
a bit like that because um to me art is so present everywhere that it I never felt like I had to to to to name something, to call something art. It just is.
00:20:12
Speaker
that it What I was drawing was art just as, you know, me seeing a flock of birds in the sky was art. I remember in secondary school, our art teacher, he would often ah correct what people were drawing and kind of take over people's work and go, no, don't do it like this. And I think he was just, bless him, a bit of ah a frustrated artist who clearly just wanted to Do his own thing in the end. Many art teachers. Oh, yes. When he said to one of my friends, oh, yeah, you're not ah you're not very good at drawing or or and I just was so furious. And I said, you know, um or I think he was saying, oh, that's not it's not good or it's not art or it's something. I can't remember what he said verbatim, but it was along those lines. And I had to and I was very shy. um But I had to say to him, you can't say that.
00:21:10
Speaker
everyone can draw. um There's of course different skill sets and different things you can learn but you can't say someone can't draw that is that is unacceptable. And actually another thing that got me in trouble with an art teacher to be honest with you.
00:21:27
Speaker
i um I had a, ah and mike this was in in London and I was learning in my art class about Henry Moore and I was really enjoying ah learning about about him and then I came home and I was like, oh, we're learning about Henry Moore today. I'm sure you know him. ah He was the first to He was the first to introduce the... I can't even remember now actually how bad... and The round shape. The round shape, sash but there was that there's a term that I can't remember now. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And you turned to me furious. And you said that is incorrect. It was far ahead for us.
00:22:16
Speaker
It was not Henry Moore, you're a teacher. It's wrong. is It's not teaching you properly. He was absolutely not the first. And the next day, of course, I went to to school to my art teacher and I said, im actually, it wasn't Henry Moore who was the first. I've been informed by a trusted source. I did research.
00:22:38
Speaker
So we did speak a lot of about it. The main thing that was present was the the the making for sure. And and and back going back to your question Emily, I think that um I'm wondering now the fact that ah dad never really kind of put up his work. I don't remember having those feelings of making something and thinking, oh, I'm making art and then I'm going to put it up. um I never put anything up really or saw art in that way. It really was about
00:23:13
Speaker
making and enjoying the making so much and the the the process of the making but also seeing what I'm doing but I never felt like it then needed to be um called art or put up as such and displayed. When you say put up like yeah displayed.
00:23:35
Speaker
um it just yeah It just was more about experiencing it than naming it. Brilliant. All right. Well, this has been fantastic. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we will talk to Concha a bit more about how her art evolved.
00:23:57
Speaker
and where she took it and where she is now, which is a really fascinating, interesting place. And I also have so many questions about, and, you know, you may not be able to answer all of them, Conch, but just kind of how people, ah how younger people are experiencing the art world, as it were. and So lots more to come. Yeah, let's take a quick break. See you in a bit.
Movement and Dance as Inspiration
00:24:44
Speaker
Welcome back again. um We all have our hot drinks and we're ready to dig into the second half of the episode. um ah You poor thing. I have a very, very lukewarm coffee. I might survive and might be the only one with a hot drink actually. You're the only one who's got it together today. yeah um You're talking about this book you're reading about a young woman living the artist's life. You are doing that in in your own life now, which, I mean, that's such an incredible glimpse into what that means ah for someone making their way in the art world in London, which is not so easy. So you formally studied as a dancer. What what what took you in that direction? ah I was always intrigued by dance from a young age. The art that I wanted to make was more related to movements
00:25:42
Speaker
um even when in the artists and shows and things that I was interested in when you when we would go to exhibitions or um when I would learn it up about an artist, I was realising that I was really interested in work that involved movement and performance arts. I remember the first time that I think it was Dad, he was showing me the work of Richard Long um that piece that he did when he walked back and forth on a a line made by walking which is a photograph of a field uh of a really high uh grass but and there's a line there it's not even high it's not even high it's not high i think i'm not fantastic i don't visualize i'm kind of making it up as i go that image lives rent free in my mind 24 seven it's just a path
00:26:38
Speaker
It's just how you make paths in nature. But he kind of went back and forth and made that path rather than taking a path that probably was so somewhere else in the field. yeah And it's just a black and white photograph called A Line Made by Walking. And that's for me is a very important work. in those moments seeing the involvement of the of the body in making art and in making lines and in drawing and but I also think it's quite funny because when I remember when I was a a teenager at university I can't remember but dad was saying oh you know you're saying oh but you know you really um brought kind of dance and movement into the the the family that was your path and you you know you brought it to us and that's
00:27:24
Speaker
and we might have brought things to you but you also brought things into the the home and into into my work and I was thinking actually that that's not true, the performance was 24-7 at home and i and i I was so lucky to see the the the the process of ah of of ah of drawing and how the body is so heavily involved in the in the making and I used to kind of I love watching watching him work it was like a free performance and so I think that sure I brought some more of the kind of dance and contemporary dance aspect of things but movement was always was always there I didn't bring that he always had that his work is very physical so So tell us a little bit about the work you're doing now and maybe also just like how movement in the body plays a role in that
Current Projects with Clay and Movement
00:28:21
Speaker
work. I really enjoy the even the practical process of having to to carry and lift and and forage big chunks of clay. And um I love how much it it teaches me how how strong I am, even in the practical sense of having to carry things around. and
00:28:42
Speaker
And i I enjoy feeling this the strength that it that it requires. and that i Because for a long time, especially as a woman, you'd think you are not very strong and you can't carry a lot. And the fact that I make myself carry a lot of things, ah I really enjoy that feeling of a lot of the time I get an idea, I have to do it. And there might be there might not be anyone around to help me achieve this this this image that I have in my head of this thing that I want to make.
00:29:08
Speaker
um But I have to make it. and And so the body has to to comply and I have to to do the thing. And and i I really enjoy that how movement comes and into that, in that sense, in the practical sense. And then I make a lot of things um where the body has to go inside. So some kind of sculptural work where the body has to go inside of the piece.
00:29:37
Speaker
And when I'm making it, I do work a lot around my body, fitting the materials around as I'm working. And it also feels like ah ah working as a choreographer, because but but just the the dancers that I'm working with don't know that they're working with me and because they're the audience.
00:30:00
Speaker
but i'm I make something that is choreographed so then I know that the the boy like the ah this that I hung, for example, I know that people are a lot of people are depending on height but they're going to crouch a little bit and then they're going to get inside the helmet and that's that it's almost like choreographing movements. I did this piece in an art residency and it's a sculpture that I made out of cob in a field which is this sort of cocoon that to get inside of it you have to be in a fetus position and I did a performance where I was inside the sculpture and I had a sound playing in them but when the performance finishes I do invite people to go inside of it if they want to.
00:30:50
Speaker
And i because I think I enjoy the choreography aspect of it, that they're going to be moving and that the piece can carry on. I enjoy being inside it so much that I want people to experience what it's like to be... It's also wanting to share something that I that i enjoy experiencing um with other people. I'm really curious to know if you have what's your earliest memory of an exhibition, or maybe not the earliest, but like the strongest experience that you had visiting exhibitions when you were a child or a teenager. What's your memory of that? A lot of um memories I have are playing with my brother in exhibitions.
00:31:36
Speaker
we had to go inside this ah this room that got turned into a sort of a maze. It was a room that was completely blacked out. you know It was dark. You couldn't see a thing. There were some little lights, but because as soon as you would walk, it would trigger certain things that would make things appear. I think there might have been a Where was that? I have a faint memory of that. A ghost. so there's I remember a lot of the kind of the games that we would create in those those spaces. The piece of art that you remember most is something you entered into. And you are now making art.
00:32:24
Speaker
Oh wow, I did not think. Wow, that's how funny. I did not think about that. Oh, yeah. And a lot of um a lot of the the places that I... Oh my gosh, this is so funny. A lot of the things that I make when you enter them, it's dark. Wow. Exactly. I find that really interesting that the your first memories in exhibitions are of playing in exhibition spaces because we talk a lot about this in the podcast, which is you can have so many relationships to art, but also to exhibition spaces and to museums.
Interactive Childhood Art Experiences
00:33:06
Speaker
I was always very relaxed about it because I thought they were going to encounter something at some point. you know I don't have to kind of drive them to... So, I mean, in terms of
00:33:17
Speaker
In terms of your work and how you think of your work, how do you think about that in relation to exhibitions? I'm not thinking so much about where the work will end up, yes. But more I guess more how I want people to experience the work and that's what takes me to then, oh, okay. So I guess if I want people to experience it like this, I have to show it like this. I'm very aware.
00:33:46
Speaker
extremely aware of how hard it is to make it in those spaces, exhibition spaces. I feel like sometimes people might think that because of my upbringing that I can see things as much more achievable, and I do in a sense, but not in the sense of, oh yeah, it's It's easy to make and then for it to be shown. um It's really hard. It takes a lot of a lot of work to and in the making process, but a lot of work in the networking and the um being in the right place at the right time. and A lot of people also think that because of my upbringing I'm very aware of um the ins and outs of um finances look like as a freelance.
00:34:30
Speaker
artists and I have friends and and artist friends that ask me, so I really struggled to kind of price my work. um How does your dad do it? how did then And I realized I have no idea what he prices his work as. we don't In our house we do not talk about money. We do not talk about business. Yeah, we talk about not having money. We talk about not having money.
00:34:57
Speaker
And I was thinking, I have no idea how to be a freelancer in the business side of it. and i mean all And it's great that I can ask when I have those questions. i do have And that's a huge privilege to be able to just you know ah give give you guys a call. I love to have my flaws as a parent exposed out there. That's amazing.
00:35:21
Speaker
But the financial side of things, never never a word about it. How to survive in the world, no idea. How to make art, sure. But I also think that we do need to talk more about, not not just ah at home, but in general, about the joy of making paid income from doing what you love, but also just making an income. And I think mu talking about money has become so kind of dirty and taboo and my friends are saying a lot, you know, oh, do you know what, like, I wish I and didn't have to work, actually, and and I hate working and a lot of memes going on, or maybe it's just me, actually, I can't speak for my whole entire generation, but a lot of kind of like, I just want to be running in the fields, you know,
00:36:09
Speaker
F-working, can I swear? but I don't know. F-working. um Or even just kind of um even friends saying you know actually I'm totally fine with my partner doing the work and me being the artist you know taking care of the house and then doing my artwork and I think.
00:36:31
Speaker
oh that's an note where I feel like we're entering a dangerous territory here where I know that what people are saying is that they just want to be able to make their art and not have to think about um the part-time job or how to make money from it but um we fought so hard to yeah be able to ah to work you know especially as women and make our money and um I'm not really enjoying this kind of, ah this weather, we're kind of going backwards a little bit. um and and and and And I think we need to understand how dangerous it is to say, you know, I wish I didn't have to work because
00:37:12
Speaker
Because also I know that that's not really what they mean, but I wish we spoke more about the joy of the joy of working. And we're also very much a generation that is so focused on wellbeing. And I grew up with the morning routine videos and the evening routine videos and doing all these things for your your your health and your nutrition, working
Balancing Work, Joy, and Wellbeing
00:37:36
Speaker
out and doing this. And it's just like,
00:37:39
Speaker
Actually, the moments that I feel the most at bliss and the most alive ah and the most at one with not just myself but but with the world, with with the with being here, with being alive, um is when I'm working and when I'm doing things that take me outside of myself. Does that mean that it you know I was working on something for five hours and maybe I skipped lunch or I skipped my you know morning workout? and who cares that I'm it that this is this is it this is
00:38:16
Speaker
this is what I would rather be be talking about actually is is is working and and and redefining I guess what what we mean by what work is because I know that when people are saying I wish I didn't have to work I know that they're talking about the kind of rat race of the things we need to do to upkeep and that's something of course we need to question and and it's really hard especially as an artist to sustain your work and to make money from your work, it's hard and we can't romanticize that. but um But I also think that we need to talk about the joy of working and the privilege that it is to be able to so call what we do work because it is work, it is such important work and it's things that allow us to um
00:39:04
Speaker
to to live in in in this world that finally takes the focus outside of ourselves and this um this this this perfect way that we're being ah pressured to to to to live and carry these perfect, healthy,
00:39:19
Speaker
lives but actually health sometimes actually looks like sweating, don making this sculpture that you decided you need to make for some reason and and spending five hours on it and and and maybe you haven't showered that day but actually that's health.
00:39:39
Speaker
That is so beautiful. That is really, really... I mean, thank you so much for saying all of that. And it's it's just sparked so many things in my own mind. And it feels like what you're talking about is you know sort of redefining work almost as our contribution outside of ourselves. So what are we doing to contribute and and viewing work in that way um you know just feels so much more empowering, especially with the work that you do, I imagine, um but also you, Joanna, and you know even for myself. and Oh, yeah. Everyone. Yeah, exactly. and i you know i totally I totally feel the anti-capitalism sentiment of
00:40:27
Speaker
you know of this moment and what some of you know your contemporaries, perhaps in particular, are really feeling. like i I get that wholeheartedly. um But you're absolutely right. There's a lot of baby that gets thrown out without bathwater. it's ah you know if it's If it's all encompassed in, you know I don't want to work, I just want to enjoy myself and you know live a live a carefree life, you're missing a lot if yeah that's the if that's the road. yeah yeah It's funny because that makes me think of our Tibetan Buddhist friend who we met in Paris in the building that we lived in and he lived somewhere in the fifth floor or seventh
00:41:14
Speaker
And I remember that they introduced us to, so it was a family, to Tibetan Buddhism. And we were already quite drawn to Buddhism and we had a lot of chats with them about it. And I remember thinking, oh, we have to know more about the rituals and know more about the meditative states and what we need to do. And he turned to me and he said, but you know, one of the things that you can do as a Buddhist is to be doing your work as mindfully as you can and as with as much presence as you can. That's a form of prayer. And I remember thinking, okay, that's not what I'm asking you. I want to know what the rituals are, you know?
00:42:04
Speaker
I want some rights. I want some rituals that just take me to transcendence, please. Thank you. And then I went home and I thought, oh, God, I'm so stupid. And even the the spiritual side of them seeing so much of the, oh, and we need to go back to our divine feminine and our idleness and the kind of just laying around and and just being feminine and Which again, I think also can be such a wonderful thing, but I feel the most feminine when I'm carrying the heaviest things and sweating and and and being busy in my working, my making and using my hands. And we just don't talk about that enough. Taking away anxiety around money, around where you might go, just in the work itself, in your work, what excites you for what's next? Yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
When you ask the question, I instantly went to to my hands and the materials that I work with and it is really what excites me the most about What I do is kind of sensory aspect of really being in touch with with the materials, going back to the meditation story that you shared. It really is something that allows me to be so in the present moment and and that excites me that it's something that ah forces me to to to go out there into the world and to get in the forest and and to pick up my things for the... to make these ideas that I have in my mind come true and um it's almost like a cheat code that I created that forces me to go out there and take my body ah ah outside into the into the elements and really breathe in the air and that excites me so much.
00:44:04
Speaker
That's brilliant. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I just have this image of your hands and the material and just, you know, just exploring wherever that takes you. And that's lovely.
Tattoo Artistry and Social Media Presence
00:44:17
Speaker
So where where can people find out more about your work? ah Yes, so I do have a an Instagram account where I try my best to share as much as I can. yeah and find and out I'll just say that on the Instagram account, for anyone like me who loves being outside and has done a lot outside, I get massive FOMO. but but is it It's just these incredible perspectives on nature and and they it really your Instagram is such a joy. Yeah, what is your Instagram account called?
00:44:48
Speaker
ah It's at Saturn dot.conch. I think. um no i'm No, that's correct. It'll be on the show's notes. It's fine. I'll put it as I ah always do.
00:45:00
Speaker
And um I also have a website that I'm also trying to be better with, which is, I think, www.constansasatrenino.com. We'll also put that in the show notes, hey? And we're going to include FieldTrail as well. Yeah. Tell us about FieldTrail.
00:45:24
Speaker
I am also a handpoke tattoo artist which I should have mentioned actually we talking about movements because I think that's another way that I've merging drawing and movement together and of course tattooing is drawing on the body as a canvas and it's a drawing that moves with you for life. Yes you can find my tattoo work ah at field field dots.trail on Instagram. Yeah, also a brilliant feed. You have a very, very distinctive marks. Oh, thank you. Brilliant. Thanks so much. This was very weird.
00:46:04
Speaker
No, thank you. No, it's been really, really amazing. And I love what you guys are doing and to to be a ah part of it. It's really, really special. And so thank you so much for having me in this wonderful space that you've created together. We can talk about art and then we need more spaces like this. So yeah, thank you for doing this and for having me here with you guys today.
00:46:29
Speaker
Well, thank you, my love. Thanks so much. It's been a real privilege to actually almost feel like I'm sitting back and watching, you know, two friends talking, and which is really nice. So thank you both. And everyone out there have a great wrap up of 2024. Let's move into 2025 with more episodes and um lots of art. So many incredible um exhibitions coming up in 2025 too. So that should be very exciting to address on the on the podcast.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yes. And I also invite people to enter the division of of life and seeing art everywhere. I think it would take less pressure off of exhibition spaces and gallery spaces. um If we could see that art doesn't just live there, it it lives everywhere we go. 100%. That's it. It's time to go. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye.