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The shameless cross-promotion episode, with Alex Armstrong
2.1k Plays7 days ago
If you turn on the news in the UK, the chances are the stories will be negative. Mass migration, two-tier justice, woeful economic forecasts, net zero lunacy, and a complete inability of politicians to fix these problems. Are things really as bad as they appear?
To help Will understand the real state of the United Kingdom in 2025, he is joined by the host of The Saturday Five (6-9pm Saturday, GB News), Alex Armstrong.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Read The Spectator Australia here.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:21
Speaker
G'day and welcome to Fire at Will, a safe space for dangerous conversations. I'm Will Kingston. Every Saturday, I make the journey to the GB News studios in Paddington to appear as a panellist on the Saturday 5, airing 6 till 9pm live on GB News.
00:00:37
Speaker
That's the plug out of the way early. The show starts with each of the five panellists picking a topic to debate. If a theme runs through those topics, it's that they are usually bad news stories.
00:00:50
Speaker
Mass migration, two-tier justice, woeful economic forecasts, net zero lunacy, and a complete inability of politicians to fix these problems. I sometimes wonder, are things really as bad in the UK as we are making them out to be?
00:01:06
Speaker
Or are we guilty of catastrophizing in the pursuit of ratings and clicks? After all, England has been in tough spots before, and as bad as net zero is, I'll probably take it over the Vikings ravaging the countryside.
Media and Narrative Building
00:01:21
Speaker
To help me understand the real state of the United Kingdom in 2025, I am joined by the host of The Saturday Five, Alex Armstrong. Alex, welcome to Fire at Will. Good to see mate. Good to see you.
00:01:32
Speaker
Great to be here. And I think you do yourself an injustice by calling yourself a panelist. You're a co-host. It's the five of us. That's why it's called The Five, you know? So yeah my co-host... will.
00:01:43
Speaker
They certainly don't pay me in line with being a co-host. So we'll pick that up separately, Alex. We'll pick that up separately. I'll re-ask the question that I asked in my introduction. Are things really as bad as we make them out to be, or are we guilty of catastrophizing?
00:01:58
Speaker
You know what? I was thinking about it as you said it, Will. And I think what we have a habit of in the press is making things seem worse on the day than they are. That doesn't mean... I mean, that that is media for you, right? We we take a small store and make it bigger and we and we it causes outrage, does cause clicks because at the end of the day, that's how you make money in the media. So there is certainly an element of truth in what you're saying.
00:02:21
Speaker
But the the broader reality of this is that those little smaller stories that may seem outrageous at the time are normally building up into something that is much bigger. I think the way to look at this, I don't know how how what what age your audience is, right? But I look at this like Marvel terms. It's like the cinematic universe of of crazy shit, right?
00:02:41
Speaker
So one little thing, that you get a standalone movie and another standalone movie, and they all build up to the Avengers. And that is exactly what's happening in Britain. it's It's happening now. And so we're seeing these small little stories that the the left will dismiss and they'll say, oh, you're taking that out of context. So that's just one story. And I'm like, yes, it's one story that is building to a bigger narrative and they all fit into the same stream.
00:03:04
Speaker
So, whilst I think you're right, think i mean, Britain is a, I love this country. I love the United Kingdom. ah love, you know, the history of it, what what we are meant to be, what we're where we're supposed to be in the world.
00:03:17
Speaker
what what i What I think most British people see is a country with a lot of potential that is just not fulfilling it. that if for some reason becoming of a third world ah third-class country, falling behind economically, falling behind culturally, falling behind in terms of its leadership of the world, ah less than 100 years ago, this country used to be the number one country in the world.
00:03:39
Speaker
And I think we are struggling to come to terms with the reality of that, but also... trying to figure out how quick, why our our decline is so, so fast. Well, when you put it in that historical context, it is striking.
00:03:52
Speaker
Let's look at some of those stories that make up the broader narrative then and try and understand it better.
Mass Migration and Economic Impacts
00:03:57
Speaker
So we'll structure this as a modified version of our show, where the show starts with picking five topics and then look exploring them by via debate.
00:04:05
Speaker
The first, and probably the one that we would talk about the most, I would suggest, is on the impacts of mass migration in the United Kingdom. but I read a tweet from the GB News account just before we went on and it read, migrant pedophile who attacked teenage girl allowed to stay in Britain as he would face inhuman treatment in Pakistan because he's an alcoholic.
00:04:27
Speaker
Now, that could be ah very dark, satirical post, but it is actually 100% true. I guess the question, Alex, is how did we get here?
00:04:40
Speaker
and It's a very good question. I think what, well, maybe I don't know how how far back we want to go with this, but you you could argue this started after World War II, this sort of desire for migrants in Britain. We've never really been a country that's that's massively welcomed immigrants. And if it has, it's been during wars or you know times of severe crisis in the country.
00:05:05
Speaker
And in World War II, we needed a flood of immigration after the war to bolster the economy and to fill jobs that were basically take gone by the you know hundreds of thousands of young British men killed during that war.
00:05:18
Speaker
And i think what happened after that was... an addiction to mass immigration. One, I think businesses realized, yeah, these these guys are cheap.
00:05:29
Speaker
Damn, they're cheap and they work hard. they have They care less about their rights because they come from countries that don't have rights. Therefore, they don't complain about having time off, wanting to spend it with their family. It started this sort of weird...
00:05:42
Speaker
I don't know, obsession with immigration, and at least in the capitalist side of our country, the capitalist side of our state. And of course, the the the left at the time, but as they exist today, didn't exist then, right?
00:05:53
Speaker
So it was really a capitalist thing. It was but bolstering the economy. And We've realized, and and capitalists across the world, well, globalists, should I say, realize you can bolster your GDP by importing like hundreds of thousands of people.
00:06:08
Speaker
You can do it because, again, cheap labor. You undercut the prices, therefore you make more profit, therefore pet those rich people spend more money. it's It's pretty straightforward stuff. But critically, that is top-line GDP numbers, not GDP per capita.
00:06:23
Speaker
And it's GDP per capita, as in the amount of GDP per person in the country that really dictates whether you feel wealthy or not in your day-to-day life. ah Exactly right, Will. Exactly right.
00:06:36
Speaker
And we've we've we've seen that immigration from out yeah the population grow from outside of Britain grow ever since World War II. And it is it has reached a point. I mean, it was always tens of thousands. you know It was small numbers.
00:06:48
Speaker
We've now reached a point where since Tony Blair came into office, that number has exploded and it's it's gone down. astronomical since the Tories got into government.
00:06:59
Speaker
And yeah there's something ah but there's something to be said about that, which we can dig into later. But that's where the immigration crisis started. On top of that, British people stopped having kids.
00:07:10
Speaker
yeah We are at an extremely rapidly declining birth rate. which has given these people, these globalists, an excuse to import millions, literally millions of people into this country. It's given them a perfect excuse because they can always turn around and say, if we don't have kids, we have a population crisis.
00:07:30
Speaker
And they're not lying. They're not lying when they say that. but But the broader agenda is is to boost it's the biggest GDP. That's what it is. That's what it is. The top line GDP to stay top of the game.
00:07:42
Speaker
Well, know that you've been in Hungary relatively recently, and they're one of the few countries that are actually addressing the declining birth rate challenge with practical policies. So I'm aware that only in the last month or so, they've introduced a policy whereby if a woman has two children, they will never have to pay income tax again for the rest of their life.
00:08:01
Speaker
What do you think of those types of policies? Love them. app I was, you know, Hungary was an eye opener for me because they are, you know, I'll give you the quote that I tell everybody because this is just the best quote, Will.
00:08:14
Speaker
I'm speaking to you. was a deputy minister for, he he's like a home office minister, and like equivalent basically. And so he I said to him, because he's got the that's not just that policy where you remove income tax for women who've had kids. If you have three or more children, you completely wipe off your student loan, right?
00:08:31
Speaker
when you when you When you leave school, you get 10 grand to do whatever you want with it. Start a business, invest in a property. its It's a loan. You pay it back, but it's interest-free, right? So it's all options.
00:08:42
Speaker
These are things they help young people to do, stay in Hungary and invest in Hungary. absolutely I mean, I thought they're a fantastic country. And I said to the Home Office Minister, their equivalent of, I said, how on earth can a small country like Hungary afford to do this? We don't have anything comparable here in the UK, anything comparable.
00:09:02
Speaker
And he said, my favorite quote of the year, last year, he said, we invest in our people, you invest in illegal migrants. It was quite stark. I mean, and you know in some way, it's it's a joke, right?
00:09:17
Speaker
But this is a country that that loves its people, that is proud to be Hungarian. they they Against the European Union, they built a massive border wall to keep out illegal migrants. And I saw some of the footage of it. It's shocking. There's people coming in with AK-47s.
00:09:33
Speaker
ah you know If they had left that border closed, ah open, sorry, then they would have had the same terror attacks that we did. They've built this border wall. They've been fighting the EU and deportations of illegals.
00:09:43
Speaker
And they're just on top of it. It's the safest country. I have what i didn't ever feel unsafe. great Compare that with London, and I do. But with Paris, and i really do. So I think what's gone wrong in the UK is, again, we're just not investing in families.
00:09:58
Speaker
We're investing in foreigners. It's cheaper. the The results are immediate because you just literally put someone a plane and you've got that GDP growth. As well, if you're planning on increasing your population, which takes 20 years for a child to reach a team working age, well, that's a long game and you won't see the fruits of your labor.
00:10:16
Speaker
So
Cultural Identity and Assimilation in the UK
00:10:17
Speaker
instead, what do you do? You import millions of people and instead. Well, that's what happens. think the interesting thing about your answer is it's predominantly economic in terms of the motivations behind mice migration. But there's another lens on this, isn't there? there And that is the self-flagellating instinct at the heart of countries like the United Kingdom that says that our history is somehow evil, our values are less important than the values of globalism.
00:10:42
Speaker
And as a result of that, diversity should be our strength and we need to import people basically to water down British culture and create a different, more universalist type culture.
00:10:55
Speaker
How does that play into this story? Yeah, I've seen that happen. yeah I'm a born and bred Londoner for those of you. Most people won't know me watching but in the podcast, I'm sure. But yeah, I'm born bred London. I grew up in Northwest London, 35, 34, so 34 years ago, born there.
00:11:11
Speaker
And i have seen this in real time. i have seen the transformation of Britain. you know There's many parts of this country that have yet to be untouched by mass immigrations.
00:11:23
Speaker
And unlike those places who still vote for Liberal Democrats, still vote for Labour, still vote SNP perhaps, and they're all refugees welcome here, people, yeah, they they haven't seen their homes disappear.
00:11:36
Speaker
They haven't seen their culture, their local identity disappear. completely removed. It's gone. you know When I walk through my own hometown, I am ah minority race.
00:11:48
Speaker
i am I am sometimes the only person speaking English on a bus. A lot of people will think, Christ, that sounds very racist, Alex. But it's the truth. It's not a racist it's not racist. It's a fact.
00:11:59
Speaker
If I am the only English person on a bus, something somewhere went wrong. And this is the reality that that is staring Britain down a barrel, is that we will, British people in Britain will become a minority in the next 100 years.
00:12:17
Speaker
It's going to happen. And I mean, and when I say that, and I don't like to say this because you my my stepfather's ah an immigrant to this country. He's from Iran. So I don't have anything against immigrants. We invite them here. it's our It's our governments that do this.
00:12:29
Speaker
It's not their fault. But do you want Britain to to to be a minority British country? Because that's where we're headed. right It's as simple as simple as that. Sorry, maybe I'm getting away from your question again. well what were you What was your direct question?
00:12:43
Speaker
No, I think that that is getting to it. might like guess the the other The other thing here, you know I'm obviously a migrant in this country, but I'm a migrant who has you know Winston Churchill as the background on my phone. i I go to the pub on Sundays. i I have a deep and abiding love for this country and its history and its values.
00:13:02
Speaker
Surely part of this isn't just... the displacement of an ethnic British group, but it's also the types of people that now are predominantly coming into the country.
00:13:14
Speaker
They're not coming from Ireland or Australia or New Zealand or USA or Western Europe in the same numbers as they were in the post-World War II period. They're coming from countries that potentially don't have that same, not potentially, that certainly don't have the same values as as the United Kingdom.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I forgot your default the full context of your question was about culture and you're right. And and that that's part of two things. well Well, I think first of all, you kind of already said what I was thinking, which is we just don't have immigrants from cultures that are similar to us, right?
00:13:48
Speaker
we and We're importing a lot of people from Africa and a lot of people from the Middle East and parts of Southeast, Southeast, south and Southern Asia, I guess, not just Southeast, but Southern Asia. not predominantly white countries, not predantminant predominantly anglo Anglo-Saxon countries, or at least Anglospheric countries, maybe because those people don't want to leave. you know i mean I went to Australia for the first time last year. I thought it was absolutely phenomenal.
00:14:13
Speaker
In fact, there's many times, and I'm sure maybe there's things that i don't I didn't see as a tourist that you would enlighten me on, Will. But in many ways, I thought, how the hell is this not Britain? you know this is like This is what Britain should have been like.
00:14:25
Speaker
but But frankly, what happens, Will, is when you get to see places like London where I was born, the parts of London that I was born in, is that when you import millions or tens of thousands or hundreds thousands of people into a country and and you literally shove them in in one economic centre,
00:14:42
Speaker
They don't assimilate. They don't have and they don't embrace British values because they don't have to. Because guess what? They're surrounded by the same people they just left that country to move to. Basically, you're moving them into their own pockets in a new country.
00:14:57
Speaker
Therefore, they don't appreciate the culture. And what do they want? they want They then start to go, well, actually, why can't I just bring what I what i liked about my last country into this one? And they start demanding it. And then they start grouping together and voting for it.
00:15:10
Speaker
And that is where the problem lies, is that unless people want to come to Britain because they love Britain, then what's the point being here? Well, the point being here for those people is economics. so People like you, Will, probably, yes, well, I'm sure Britain's an attractive economic state for you to move to. would have also You'd also see this massive cultural tie.
00:15:30
Speaker
and gone, wow, i you know I love Winston Churchill. I love the history of this country. I want to come and experience that firsthand. Those economic migrants are not coming here for that. In fact, they hate that about Britain. That's the stuff they don't want.
00:15:43
Speaker
That's the stuff they want to raise. That's the stuff they detest about Britain because they see Winston Churchill as racist. They see British people as warmongers. They see British people you know support loving Tony Blair, for example.
00:15:54
Speaker
These are the sorts of things that they have they unfortunately do not like about us. I don't like Tony Blair, but but there's mis there's misconceptions about in their media and their propaganda that that say, well, you can come to Britain and make money, but you don't have to love Britain.
00:16:08
Speaker
Unfortunately, I don't think those two things work. I'm probably an anti-economic migrant. i could pay I could actually make more money and pay less tax elsewhere. but but didn you know exactly that That is my cross to bear.
00:16:20
Speaker
You referred to white countries or predominantly Anglo-Saxon countries in that answer. Does whiteness matter?
00:16:29
Speaker
No, it doesn't matter because culture is more than ah than skin color. And I and and actually, like i have really disagreed with with a lot of the online right about rihi's so about the comments about Rishi Sunak, for example.
00:16:43
Speaker
So many people saying Rishi Sunak is not English. I absolutely detest that argument. I really do because, know, I'll give you a good example. My little brothers are half Iranian, half English.
00:16:56
Speaker
they they were born in this country and raised like English kids. Literally, like an despite having a darker appearance about them, speaking to them, there is nothing about them that's Iranian.
00:17:07
Speaker
They are English through and through. there is like They are a whole identity. This is my little brother. He's 21. He goes He goes to Magaluf. yeah He goes goes out of his mates at uni, drinking in the pubs on the weekends. so like He is a stereotypically English lad like in every way, shape, or form.
00:17:26
Speaker
Now, I understand the ethnicity argument that that there is a British as an ethnicity, or English, should I say. and I do think there's something to that, and I do think that's okay. It doesn't mean the two are non-exclusive.
00:17:40
Speaker
You can still be you know British, but not ethnically British. and I believe that that comes from cultural identity. Rishi Sunak is quintessentially an English man.
00:17:52
Speaker
i mean, look at him. He's a tea drinker. He he's speaks posher than I could ever hope to. And my mum dragged the Cockney out of me quite a bit so I could get jobs. and so it was a a Cockney was not something you we wanted to be associated with that way back when.
00:18:09
Speaker
But you know, like Rishi said, it's coincidentally English. I speak to other commentators who come on to GB News, for example, I won't name them because I don't want to drag them into this, but some of them who are not ethnically English are more English than I am, like in in so many ways.
00:18:23
Speaker
So whiteness doesn't matter. However, wouldn't Britain, I don't want to swear on your podcast, wouldn't Britain just be rubbish if there weren't white people here, right I wouldn't go to China and expect everyone to be black.
00:18:39
Speaker
Because that would just be like, hang on a second, that's a bit weird. like Is it the cultural ethnic ethnic makeup of this country traditionally Asian? you know you like do like I think there's a naturality to to to the location of which your forefathers have ah ah brought been born and raised.
00:18:57
Speaker
But the in the grand scheme of it, no. But Britain wouldn't be Britain without white people. Simple as that. There is this weird double standard, isn't there? No one ever really talks about China and complains that they lack diversity.
00:19:09
Speaker
No one ever talks about the Japanese chinese immigration system and says, well, this is not on. Why do you have so many ethnically Japanese people and you're not allowing in people from Western countries?
00:19:19
Speaker
It never seems to come up in the conversation. It's a strange double standard. and we've We've talked about too many people coming. We've talked about people coming from not culturally compatible backgrounds, but there's another problem here.
00:19:31
Speaker
And that is that when you do have someone who has behaved atrociously, like we referred to in that tweet I mentioned earlier, it's very, very hard to get them out of the country because of this European Convention on Human Rights that the UK signed up to.
Legal Challenges and Justice System Concerns
00:19:45
Speaker
Talk to me about that and why it's such a problem. Yeah, so um there's there's two reasons. It's slightly deeper than just the ECHR, but the ECHR, I mean, you know, I think British people are so sick of bureaucracy.
00:20:03
Speaker
You know, we're quite a rebellious European nation. We are probably the only or the most rebellious European nation. We don't see ourselves as Europeans. And again, after at the end of World War two what happened is is that Europeans looked around at what the Germans, the Nazis had done and said, right, well, we can't have that happening again. And if we do, we want there to be tribunals and war crimes and all this sort of stuff looked at.
00:20:27
Speaker
And so the the the European Court of Human Rights was there to protect against atrocities by the state against its own people. that That was the purpose. And to have it outside in a more neutral state was very important, like yeah Brussels, where people just thought, like well, this is a pretty nothing country, therefore putting it here will be harmless.
00:20:48
Speaker
And its purpose was was important. joe Churchill helped set up the foundations of the ECHR. it It does have bearing. and it's It is important that we remember that. However, what has happened to it ah over the last 80 years or so, I mean, I don't remember how long exactly when it was established, but ah roughly give or take 80 years, is it has been weaponized now.
00:21:09
Speaker
In 2025, it's weaponized against European citizens, people who are born and bred here, it's it' actually working in favour of foreign criminals. It's not protecting anybody.
00:21:20
Speaker
And that is because the the judiciary has been infiltrated by activist far-left judges. Simple as that. Simple as that. And what they're doing is interpreting ECHR rules to say, okay, well, you can't do that because that's against this convention number XYZ.
00:21:39
Speaker
Things like, the I recall there's one convention, I don't remember the number, which is that people have a right to a family life. And so that can be interpreted as broadly, really, as you would like, depending on your particular agenda.
00:21:51
Speaker
yeah Yeah, quite right. And, you know, those conventions have changed over the years and they've grown with with the ECHR, but you know The key thing really for Britain is this. It's the British yeah Human Rights Act. It's Tony Blair's Human Rights Act, which basically empowers these judges to an extreme extent to take that as far as they like.
00:22:13
Speaker
It basically takes it puts them in so fully in charge of our of our of our borders. ah The judiciary have taken over immigration in this country. We do not control immigration. and this is that This was the thing about Brexit that i that that most of us didn't realise, me included.
00:22:29
Speaker
who you know i i was emphatically in favour of Brexit because I'd seen immigration run wild and I didn't want it for the rest of the country. I thought, well, I've lost my home. How many more towns are going to lose theirs? I'm going to vote for Brexit now. I was probably one of the only only few Londoners that did because most of the British people in London are gone, frankly.
00:22:47
Speaker
But what What we see and what you'll see often, Will, and you're s seeing it every week now, and we're going to see this for for years, by the way, those stories about the one about chicken nuggets, about the foreign criminal who got off because of chicken nuggets. its this kid like but Yeah, for for people for people who haven't heard, there was someone who made a who appealed against a deportation order despite being a criminal because, for one reason, his young child did not like the chicken nuggets in his home country of I think it was Bulgaria or one of those Balkan ones.
00:23:18
Speaker
and And that was enough to fall under one of the conventions within the ECHR. Yeah. so So, you know, when Brexit happened, British people who voted to leave genuinely believed, genuinely believed, okay, this is basically a referendum on immigration.
00:23:38
Speaker
And they thought by leaving the European Union that we would trigger an exit from all of these institutions. It didn't happen. It didn't happen. we We have done half Brexit because we don't have control. Until until that message of take back control is is done, we don't have control.
00:23:56
Speaker
So, Unfortunately, that means we do need to leave these institutions, we need to quit the ECHR, and we do need to have our own British Bill of Human Rights. and There's nothing wrong with that.
00:24:08
Speaker
theres the The left scaremonger, this like we're going to use that as some sort of excuse to become a Nazi dictatorship. like well well Obviously, we're not going to do that. i mean You have to be so delusional and moronic low intelligence to believe Britain is overnight going to turn into a fascist state.
00:24:28
Speaker
What we want to be able to do is to is to deport foreign criminals are who have hurt, killed, raped, murdered people in this country. that is There is nothing political about that. That should just be common sense.
00:24:42
Speaker
just because And we can't do it, obviously. I'm glad you brought up the judiciary because that is a good segue to our second topic, which is on justice and this term two-tier justice. So there is a perception among some people that the white working class is treated differently in the justice system than people from minority backgrounds.
00:25:03
Speaker
Some other people say that that that is a right-wing talking point. How legitimate is ah It's extremely legitimate. In fact, and of four days four days of four or five days, two-tier judiciary becomes law.
00:25:18
Speaker
yeah its It's bonkers. It's absolutely nuts. For people aren't aware of this, there are sentencing guidelines which are going to go into effect, which will encourage judges to take into account the ethnic background or minority background of a perpetrator,
00:25:37
Speaker
when they are making sentencing guidelines, when they're making sentencing decisions? not not just ah just Not just where they're from, their ethnicity, there their their gender, their religion.
00:25:48
Speaker
that whether they're transsexual or not, transgender, sorry, I mean, bonkers. Basically, if you are a white man, white straight man, normal person, like a normal British white man, you're screwed.
00:26:01
Speaker
like You are basically told, unfortunately, sorry, this is the reality now. You are a second-tier citizen. So, It's extremely dangerous, Will. It's extremely dangerous. And again, um i'm I'm a big person, but big believer in at least talking about the judiary judiciary in this country. And it's a very difficult topic because British people don't like to talk about the justice system. We we are we we treat it like it's a very special part.
00:26:30
Speaker
and when you When you watch and you listen back, i mean you'll see a lot of like Shakespeare and and plays all set around the judiciary. Because We uphold and we love to think that they are some you know very benevolent force. and We have been taught that for so long.
00:26:46
Speaker
like marity The court system in the UK is the fairest in the world. It's the one that every Commonwealth country has based its system off of our great court system. and so People are waking up to but now to the reality that actually the court system in our country has become deeply corrupted.
00:27:03
Speaker
It's really, really corrupted. and This goes back into the what we have, the the bar in our country, of course, is where this is the standards of which solicitors have to pass to become a lawyer in this country.
00:27:14
Speaker
and if and i mean If anyone's interested, go and have a look at what the bar's proposing that their lawyers have to do. One of the lines is very clear. It currently is help currently as to ah ensure you've done something with people from different backgrounds. like So basically, you embrace diversity is what it's asking you to do, which yeah you could argue fair enough.
00:27:37
Speaker
You want to be out of a porn scrape as a lawyer. Now it's going to tell you, you must have furthered the cause of diversity. Now that language is extremely explicit.
00:27:49
Speaker
It's saying you must help people who are not the the majority white working class in this country. You must further their cause. You must further DEI.
00:28:01
Speaker
Now look at how that plays out in the sentencing guidelines, so how it plays out in the courts, how, you know, there are people locked up for social media posts for years.
00:28:12
Speaker
But if you're, you know, there was a guy who attacked... public servant, I think it was an ambulance driver, a coroner, couldn't speak a word of English, got let off because he couldn't speak English.
00:28:24
Speaker
i That is two-tier. It's two-tier. Whatever way you want to look at it, that's what it is. If you're a hardcore criminal in this country, provided you're not white and straight British, you're you're going to get a much easier ride. And that's going to be law in four-barg days.
00:28:40
Speaker
You just referred to people being locked up for what amount to thought crimes, you know nasty social media posts and that sort of thing. A lot of people in the US, a lot of people even even in in Australia look at this and they can't quite believe it. They think it's a beat up, but it is absolutely happening.
00:28:56
Speaker
yeah how How have we got to this point where absolutely actual crimes where an actual harm has been put upon someone, punching someone in the face, for example, that seemed to be treated in many instances less seriously than thought crime, as in putting forward a belief online that is nasty, that is racist, whatever, you name it. And and and and I should just caveat, some people will say, well, there is an incitement to violence thing going on there. If someone puts this stuff forward,
00:29:25
Speaker
But a lot of the time, there isn't a direct incitement to violence in the posts that are going out there. It could be a general hateful message, which whilst not being polite or nice, is not leading to, in a direct sense, a particular crime.
00:29:38
Speaker
So how do we how do how do we get there is my question. Yeah, and there's really good examples of what you just said there, Will, online. ah ah Bernie, I can't remember her last name if it's escaped me, but she got a she basically got arrested and taken to the police station because she said something like, if this is true, there'll be hell to pay.
00:29:56
Speaker
but just Just for your audience's sake, it's not a lie what you're saying, and it's not it's not hyperbole. How did we get here? Well, it's it kind of goes back to everything we've just been talking about, and there's a common thread here. People will start picking up on it.
00:30:09
Speaker
which is if you want to have a country where the the majority is slowly but the majority ethnicity and culture is being replaced rapidly, you need to create the circumstances in order for that to happen. and You cannot have the majority rebel.
00:30:26
Speaker
You cannot have it. Therefore, you need to slowly whip away their rights. You don't do it all at once because that would be very obvious. You do it slowly over the course of 20, 20, 30 years.
00:30:37
Speaker
And what's happening is, is yeah just taking it from school age, is that you're being taught left-wing values from a very, very early age.
00:30:48
Speaker
Like the decolonialization of Shakespeare is happening now. That was the most bonkers thing I read last week, telling you to hate so Britain, that Churchill was a racist. Every area of of ah of British culture that has made Britain great, and and and off the back of that, many other countries have become great because of Britain's empire. i'm not saying everything the empire did was wonderful, but in my opinion, the empire was an that good for the world, not a negative.
00:31:16
Speaker
And what they're trying to do is by bringing people in who hate, who have been yeah afflicted by the empire or been taught to hate it from their countries because they have independence, had independence from Britain.
00:31:29
Speaker
They've been taught Britain did bad things, Britain bad, bad, bad. Come to Britain though, because you can make loads of money. To make those people feel at home, what they do is that break the British left have decided we must trash Britain's past and that Britain's past was evil.
00:31:45
Speaker
Simple as that. And then you're taught it from school. And that then translates into new speak, doesn't it? New speaking government. So, you know, I'll give you an example. What's a good one recently? Ah, yeah.
00:31:57
Speaker
Changing the word illegal immigration to irregular immigration. immigration. The left are really good at this. They know how to spin. They know how to spin way better than the right. do We like to just say things as they are.
00:32:09
Speaker
They will create new narratives that essentially permeate throughout society through policy and then through politicians. Tony Blair was a mastermind at doing this.
00:32:21
Speaker
Diversity, equity and inclusion are fantastic examples as well, because no one at their face could argue that those aren't nice terms. It's what they actually, when you pull up the the hood, what they actually denote or what they actually mean under the surface is but the real problem.
00:32:35
Speaker
yeah but what What it means is is discrimination against everyone else, right? Diversity, equity, and inclusion rules are there to exclude people who don't fit those because they are naturally discriminatory, which in in itself you could argue is racist, right? It's reverse racism. I just call it reverse racism.
00:32:54
Speaker
It's just racism against white people that's tarted up. It's just tarted up. and started up nonsense. And the left are really good at it. And what we've done, what why we've gone wrong, Will, is that we thought we won a battle in this country and we thought we won it in the West.
00:33:08
Speaker
We thought, conservatives thought, we had won hands down for two reasons. One, the the end of the Cold War and the fall of communism. We got complacent. We thought, that's it. The lefties are dead. That's it. They're not dead, literally, but you know lefty ideology has failed we have proven it's wrong and it's and it's gone before communism proves that and we did have a nice what 20 years of of that being the case and what we forgot is is that actually these people are ideologically zealotid and they are taught it through schools and they can read it through schools and therefore every generation you are going to have to fight because if they win once they
00:33:43
Speaker
if they If they win in the West, not in the East, but in the West once, and we can never go back. Because left-wing communism always evolves into
Political Ideologies and Party Trust
00:33:53
Speaker
dictation, becoming like what was in China, basically. you can think So what went wrong is that we lost the battle with the Cold War.
00:34:02
Speaker
And the second one was, you know, Thatcher famously said when you when she was asked, what was your greatest success? And she said, the Labour Party, but because she believed she had turned the Labour Party conservative with Tony Blair, perfect example of that.
00:34:20
Speaker
The reality was that hes he's not a conservative and that the Labour Party will never be conservative. and And they got infiltrated. So the second largest party in our country got infiltrated by neo-socialists who are have underlying Marxist values, but ah economically, you can argue, are capitalists. They're basically what the Chinese Communist Party are.
00:34:43
Speaker
It's crazy. and It's crazy to say that. But the Chinese Communist Party is capitalist in some respects so with with left-wing ideology at its core. and and that's what i mean i think Maybe this current Labour government are are faltering on that, but that's basically what they're made up of.
00:34:57
Speaker
and we've We've got to keep fighting that battle every generation. would We're never going to win outright. I think something that Tony Blair could have said that is that his greatest achievement was turning the Conservative Party to the left.
00:35:10
Speaker
And this brings me to to topic number three, which is the Uni Party. A lot of the problems that you've identified both around British culture, as well as the justice stuff and the mass migration stuff and the kind of economic stuff, which we'll get to,
00:35:23
Speaker
They either started or were turbocharged, not under the Labor Party, they turbocharged under the right-wing or allegedly right-wing conservative government who were in power for 14 years.
00:35:35
Speaker
yeah Can the conservative party recover from that breach of trust with the people or do you think they are done as a force in British electoral politics?
00:35:46
Speaker
This is a really good question. i I think that I hate to sit on the fence about this Will but I think it's yet to be determined and it's all look at the fallout with Rupert Lowe Reformer the last week Reform is at a reform is reformers a political party. It's basically what the Conservative Party was under Margaret Thatcher. Look at all of their policies. Look at everything else. they They are not far right.
00:36:10
Speaker
Anyone he tells you reform is far right is a moron because they they haven't looked at the policies. They haven't looked at actually what they're suggesting they do. they aren't They're not even talking about mass deportations, which is what even what Donald Trump is is suggesting is doing. I say? So, less like so Reform and could kill the Conservative Party.
00:36:30
Speaker
It's totally not without... i it's It's not impossible to imagine with the Conservative Party dying, but becoming a small party and and whimpering out into existence, but it's not going to go down without a massive fight.
00:36:45
Speaker
And small party like reform needs to prove its mettle and it needs to win big and in the next four years. so Really, really big. And I'm talking like like like over 100 and something seats big.
00:36:58
Speaker
What I think is more likely to happen... is that reform will drag the Conservatives back to where they should be. It looks like we're heading towards a coalition. In my opinion, in the next election, I think it will be the Tories and reform could can make up the largest two parties and merge together. I think you will see that very likely. if the However, I will say this.
00:37:21
Speaker
If the Conservative Party continues to foster people on the centre-left, Liberal Democrats, essentially, then reform and the Tory merger can never happen.
00:37:33
Speaker
There will be the ultimate earthquake in British politics and the Conservative Party will die. Because, you know, when you buy Coca-Cola in the shops, you don't,
00:37:44
Speaker
open up the bottle to find out you're drinking Sprite. right It's the Conservative Party. It's meant to have Conservative values and it doesn't have them anymore. And there are fantastic Tory MPs.
00:37:57
Speaker
Andrew Rosendale, Robert Jenrick, these sorts of people are Conservative. However, yeah they are now having to fight the battle of their lives to keep their party alive on the Conservative values.
00:38:09
Speaker
and i don't if they're going to win it in the long run, but we'll see what happens with reform over the next three and a half, four years. so I noticed that you didn't say Kemi Badenoch there.
00:38:19
Speaker
Do you think she's the right person to lead the Conservative Party? She's got to go. Kemi Badenoch has, think, you know... We are unforgiving of politicians in this day and age. we you know They have very little time to establish themselves when they get the position of power.
00:38:35
Speaker
and i'll give I give Kelly Badenock the same amount of time I gave Keir Starmer, for fairness. and and Quite frankly, watching her at PMQs is weak. Keir Starmer is laughing at her. She's rolling over. She doesn't land a punch.
00:38:48
Speaker
There's no policy ideas, although she's saying she's speeding that up now because clearly she's had feedback that she's got to. And quite frankly, I don't know whether she's radical enough. she's she's rejected She's basically putting a middle finger up to everyone that voted reform in the last election, when actually she needs to bring those people back home. she needs to she If she really is a true conservative, she'd be looking at the people in Most of the people, not everyone, but most of the people in the Reform Party are saying, well, actually, you're just natural Tories.
00:39:15
Speaker
You belong in the Conservative Party. And she's failing to do that. She's taking the battle to the wrong side. And rather than attacking Keir Starmer, she's going after Nigel Farage.
00:39:26
Speaker
What a stupid thing to do. what and What a politically stupid thing to do. Because if she needs to form a coalition with this guy at some point, well, their relationship is is is is going to be beyond battered.
00:39:37
Speaker
And it's going to make her life very difficult. If reform ends up with more more seats than her, which is possible, difficult, but possible, she'll be the first one. Nigel Farage says, right, she's got to go. Get her out. I don't want her.
00:39:48
Speaker
So, yeah i think I don't think Kemi Badmock is right. i I used to really, really like Kemi, and I'm sure she's ah she would make a great Secretary of State. She's clearly good at the detail, but but as a leader, no.
00:40:00
Speaker
Nigel Farage and the chairman of the Reform Party, Zair Yusuf, have comprehensively ruled out a merger with the Tories. How do you square that circle, given that they've said it's never going to happen?
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, that that's nonsense. they all say this. They all say, no, no, no, we we would never do a coalition. we We'd never do this. We'd never do that. But that that's not how politics works. At the end of the day, if you have an opportunity, and for a party like Reform, I mean, put it this way, the Liberal Democrats have been a political party for a very long time.
00:40:32
Speaker
And how long did it take them to get into anywhere close to government? 2010 was the first time during the the the Osborne and Cameron years. And You're telling me a party like Reform, who has just won four, five seats, shall I say, five seats in the last election, is going to reject...
00:40:53
Speaker
It's going to reject taking an opportunity at being in government and it's basically second shot ever at a general election. and Rubbish. Absolute rubbish.
00:41:04
Speaker
And quite frankly, if reform refused to work with the Tories, which would then hand Labour power, I don't think I would be able to forgive either of those two parties. so Whichever one rejected the other one and put Labour back in for another five years. I mean, come on.
00:41:18
Speaker
They're not going to do it. Reform obviously has its challenges at the moment, though. Anyone who follows it might put her account. We'll know that I've been quite scathing of their treatment of Rupert Lowe, who was up until recently Reform MP.
00:41:31
Speaker
And due to a series of accusations against him and his conduct, ah he was dispatched. ah He was also talking a tougher game on immigration and on a lot of the issues that appeal to the reform base than Nigel Farage is, to the extent that some people in the, know, you mentioned the term online right, are saying that Nigel Farage is now just another member of the Uni Party.
00:41:53
Speaker
He's parroting the same types of stances on things like immigration and Islam that you have heard from the Conservatives and from Labor for 20 years. Do you think that is fair? And is reform really a chance of of making a play at government given some of the challenges they're facing at the moment?
00:42:11
Speaker
This is a really, really good and important discussion we need to be having in this country. And I'll tell you what I think. there's There's two ways I look at this, right? ah Because I don't i don't know.
00:42:22
Speaker
I don't know for sure. I mean, i I've met Nigel Farage a couple of times. Very genuine guy. i First of all, I will say this. Nigel Farage, what you see is what get. And I I could not say that about other politicians and other political leaders like in this country. in fact, he was just sitting in in the office GB News about do his show.
00:42:40
Speaker
He was just rolling a cigarette. He was literally vacuuming a cigarette. It didn't even have a filter on it. go, you smoke? Yeah. yeah I mean, you know, this is a proper bloke. okay this is like This is a bloke where you see what you get. It's no bullshit.
00:42:55
Speaker
And I've always liked that about Nigel. Is there criticism of the of the of of that of the way they're selling their policies? You could argue yes. You can argue yes there is criticism to be had. Now, I think what reform is doing is smart. so I think it's very smart.
00:43:11
Speaker
Because let's put it this way. If I went out and i'm I'm a leader of reform and I said to every major outlet, by the way, we're going to start mass deportations when we're in government. We are not America.
00:43:23
Speaker
Our country is very yeah li liberal with a small L. That is going to be completely spun up and put through every single door in this country by every other political party.
00:43:36
Speaker
So basically, we're going to start deporting your family members. And this country is made up with a lot of immigrants, a lot of immigrants now, way more than people realize it is. I think if reform had that message, they would lose the election quite like quite a landslide.
00:43:52
Speaker
And I think Nigel Farage is being smart about how he plays his cards. Quite frankly, mass deportations cannot start in this country until we've left the ECHR and introduced our own Bill of British Human Rights. they That cannot happen anyway.
00:44:04
Speaker
And that could take quite a while. That could take quite a while. So but do I think we need to do it? Yes. I do think we need to have mass deportations, 100%. But do I think selling it as your as you're as your only and leading policy?
00:44:18
Speaker
No, because reform needs to become a party that's taken very seriously if it's going to win an election. And it cannot do that when its only policy is going to be mass immigration. doesn't mean that you can't give signals that you're going to do it. And I do think Nigel Farage, of all the people that are in politics right now, is the man I trust more to do it.
00:44:36
Speaker
And frankly, I look at it the other way, Will, which is to say, if reform did win an election, well, they're here to stay. like That's it. like Reform's not going nowhere. If they win a general election, the Tories are finished, first of all.
00:44:50
Speaker
ah and And also, people that succeed Nigel Farage may want to carry the banner and the torch. You can't always achieve everything you want in one term of office. So I think the important thing for for reform is to be electable.
00:45:00
Speaker
And to do that, you do need to soften your image, unfortunately, because most British public are not like you and I. They don't want to have deep ideological discussions. They'll read a front page headline and they'll believe it. That's the reality.
00:45:11
Speaker
Much like the Saturday Five, the internal timings on this episode are off. So I'm going to move us along quite quite quickly to topic number four, which is the royal
Monarchy and Environmental Policies
00:45:21
Speaker
family. The royal family...
00:45:23
Speaker
is one of the great enduring institutions, not just of the United Kingdom, but of the entire world. King Charles, in recent times, has courted controversy because there is the perception among some people that his political views, which are environmental, soft left, a lot of people would say are representative of that sort of yeah liberal elite worldview that is so despised by many conservatives,
00:45:47
Speaker
And now it's coming to the surface. So he's been very, very accommodating of people of the Islamic faith, whether it be allowing a call to prayer at Windsor Castle or packing dates for Muslims fasting during Ramadan.
00:46:00
Speaker
And at the same time, there is a perception that he is not taking his role as defender of the faith of the Church of England as seriously as monarchs in times gone by. You add all this stuff together and it feels like that on the conservative side, there is less love and affection for the monarchy than what there has been in the past.
00:46:19
Speaker
And it's the conservatives who traditionally have been the strongest defenders of the monarchy. Is the future of the monarchy in question in the United Kingdom? No, not right now. Yeah, it's difficult sometimes because you know what, Will, what I try and do is I try and think, do do the British public en masse see what we see?
00:46:38
Speaker
Or do we see it through a very, very specific lens? And i tend to lean more often than not to the latter. And i i think we get exposed to more things than most of the British public do. I don't think most of the British public will know he did anything for Ramadan, but quite frankly.
00:46:57
Speaker
I think that's going to be mostly us. And again, I think the royal family has... Well, the royal family, first all, survives on advisors. It doesn't survive on its own advice. The king doesn't take his own advice on many things.
00:47:11
Speaker
He will listen to what he's told by the government. He'll listen to what he's told by the people he's hired and his team have hired around him to do what what they think is politically expedient to do as monarch.
00:47:24
Speaker
And so I don't necessarily hold that against... the royal family because they are just ah they are just a mouthpiece for the government, frankly. That's the power they have these days. me take They are symbolic, but they are ceremonial to to a large extent in the UK as much as they would probably, maybe far less so than they are in Australia, I guess. But you know I'd say Australia is the second country in the world that is probably the closest to the royal family after Britain.
00:47:50
Speaker
But yeah you know are they losing their place? Look, I think we've got a very old king a very old queen. We haven't had young kings and young queens for a really long time, but we're going to get one soon. I mean, I don't want to wish the king of ill health, but he's he's clearly not a very, very well man.
00:48:07
Speaker
He's not the picture of health his mother was. But with that being said, I think we just need younger a younger king and queen. I think we need someone who's more in touch with today um who's not listening to us as advisors so much because they're switched on and attached to the world.
00:48:21
Speaker
And I think the problem with Charles The problem with Charles specifically is is not that he's a bad monarch, it's that he spent too much time as Prince of Wales. he he I think to grow as a monarch, you need to be in the job for a long time, and that's what made Queen Elizabeth II. So such a brilliant monarch is that she did that job ah basically her whole life. So she was brilliant at it, brilliant at it, as where Charles has spent a lot of time, know, he what I call the playboy role of the royal family, which is Prince of Wales, where you just sort of go and try and do something, just do something productive.
00:48:56
Speaker
Is the royal family going anywhere in Britain? No, not right now. One, they are always, this is the truth about royals though, they're always one cock up away from ah republic. Once you've gone there, it's very, very hard to go back these days. We did we did try it once, but you know, ah these days things stay, they stick.
00:49:13
Speaker
So one more cock up, they're gone. Yes, students of history will know that it was Charles I who ended up having his head chopped off and a temporary British Republic or English Republic being instituted, so I'm sure that must p play on his mind at least occasionally now that he is Charles III.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Indulge me. Megan Markle has just released her wonderful new Netflix series. I'm assuming you enjoyed it immensely. Oh my God. I honestly, I, I, I haven't obviously watched it well, but I've, I've endured some clips.
00:49:46
Speaker
No, that's a, that's enough. And it, I'm actually just lost for words because because it really is quite dumbfounding, first of all, how bad her acting is. She can't even act normal.
00:49:59
Speaker
yeah like She can't even act like a normal person. And that's clearly... That's the thing I hate the most about always, that she's not even... she's not even doing a good job of pretending to be herself.
00:50:11
Speaker
The whole point of acting is she could put someone else's clothes on for a minute. She can't even put her own clothes on. like She can't even get her own acting. so I think, what a fraud. Can't stand the woman. Harry annoys me immensely as well. He's a spoiled brat.
00:50:24
Speaker
and They both are, frankly. and you know There was a point in time where I wished they'd come back and make amends. I think that time has passed and they should just go away. Have your private life that you wanted. Your multi-millionaires enjoy it.
00:50:37
Speaker
Simple as that That's more than enough time on Harry and Megan. Final final topic is net zero. The UK, like Australia, is pursuing a net zero policy.
00:50:48
Speaker
think they're aiming at this stage still to get there by 2030. Pretty much any reasonable person says that that is that is impossible. One of the arguments that you hear from net zero fanatics like Ed Miliband, the Environment Secretary,
00:51:01
Speaker
is that this is an example for the world to follow. There is a global leadership piece. Obviously, you can't say it's going to change the global climate in any way whatsoever. the emissions from the UK are so small that it will have no impact.
00:51:13
Speaker
So there are these other arguments that seem to pop up, whether it be that net zero is an economic opportunity or that there is a leadership role. And I chuckled when I saw a tweet come out from the Ministry of Coal in India the other day promoting a historic milestone.
00:51:29
Speaker
India has crossed a monumental 1 billion tonnes of coal production. We have Narendra Modi on this ah this this diagram. Actually, looks like it's been done by a kid in PowerPoint. It's not the most savvy image that they put up there. But nonetheless, it's quite striking seeing a government shout from the rooftops about coal production. It's heresy in the UK or in Australia.
00:51:52
Speaker
So given that this won't impact the global climate, given that The other countries don't seem to be taking the UK's leadership role in net zero particularly seriously.
00:52:03
Speaker
Will the UK continue to pursue this or will we see a more sensible environmental policy under this Labour government? Not under this Labour government.
00:52:14
Speaker
Well, actually, saying that, I mean, there's been a lot of rumours that Ed Miliband is going to get the sack soon because the Chancellor's got to go for growth. In fact, her budget, spring budget will be imminent.
00:52:25
Speaker
But just you know the damage is done, Will. The damage is done. We've closed the plants. you know we but we're We're ordering solar panels from Chinese slave labor camps that are made with coal.
00:52:39
Speaker
i It's just a complete farce. and And every energy revolution we've ever had in the world has been driven by economics. It's been driven by market.
00:52:51
Speaker
And what is it about this that it is not driving the free market? It's quite simple. It's not cheap and it's not efficient and it's not effective yet. Until you can you can give people an energy source that takes their bills down to 10 quid a month,
00:53:05
Speaker
They aren't going to bother. ah yeah Ed Miliband promised by the winter just past that he cut off our bills down by 300 quid. He's now saying that will be by 2030. Well, that's all good and well, Ed.
00:53:18
Speaker
But the reality is, is that our bills just went 120, 150 quid in some places, right? So five years of that, correct me if I'm wrong, but 300 quid is not a net saving. It's still a net loss, right? By the time we get to 2030. And I think we're all over the rubbish.
00:53:34
Speaker
So net zero will will die ah death, but it will die a death when the next political leadership changes in this country. they'll do i mean The Labour Party will probably do what a mark but Mark Carney is doing in Canada now, which is put new lipstick on the same old goat and try and flog it as a new one at the market.
00:53:54
Speaker
Because that's going to be their only chance at electoral success in the next election because net zero is is destroying our economy. Destroying our economy. It's one of the really frustrating things about this government is that so often they seem to have a narrative and then the actions that they take are in direct contradiction to that narrative.
00:54:10
Speaker
So the main priority that Kistama has put forward is going for growth, growing the economy. But you can't grow the economy when you have expensive energy. You can't grow the economy when you're raising spending and you have high taxes and you have a large administrative state.
00:54:25
Speaker
So it's almost like there is this tension between the words and the actions, which for people who do follow this stuff more closely is incredibly frustrating. yeah Yeah, and it's again that, that what you know what i was going back to earlier, that Britain somehow doesn't seem to have gotten over the fact that it's not the largest country, in the most powerful country in the world anymore.
00:54:41
Speaker
It's similar with the left when it comes to things like net zero. mean, who gives a crap what Britain does with net zero? Nobody. We have zero impact on the world. Our emissions have zero, pretty much net zero impact on the world, right? So, you know, the reason why you care, you're using India's statistics in Brazil and China and America is because they have an impact.
00:55:01
Speaker
Focus on them. They're the leaders now. like and the And the left might have to play leadership roles only when only when it's politically expedient for them to it's and so worry about it, you know?
00:55:12
Speaker
Alex, we've talked about fundamental problems with the UK in terms of the demographic composition of the country, which isn't reversible, with the judicial system, with the political system, with the monarchy.
00:55:28
Speaker
Are those problems terminal or do you think that there is a chance for recovery in the United Kingdom? I liked my analogy at the start, Will, which is like it's the Avengers, right? So we're heading towards endgame.
00:55:40
Speaker
with these issues. They're becoming all so intertwined, most of these issues, in some way or another, weirdly, they are intertwined, either politically politically speaking or within within the economics of the country.
00:55:55
Speaker
So the the battle for Britain is going to be the same one that America has just had. We we are always a few years behind America culturally in terms of where our politics runs. And i think the next four years are going to be the waking up of a vast majority of the country to decide whether they want to try something new and have had enough.
00:56:17
Speaker
ah and And they're starting to see the same, the patterns between the Tories and Labour are exactly the same. or whether we are going to continue on this terminal decline. Because I think the only way to do this is complete radical change, radical conservatism.
00:56:31
Speaker
and i And I genuinely do believe this, and i'm not you know I'm not paid to say this from behalf of reform, by the way, but I do genuinely believe the only way we're going to do that is just to have reform in some form of government, whether they are coalition partner or a leader.
00:56:46
Speaker
that's it end game is happening now we are playing it out live on air like literally every every weekend mate so you know we're a small part of the avengers somehow well that's a lovely little plug to end on make sure that you catch alex on the saturday five six to nine p.m gb news on saturdays mate you're doing a wonderful job i ah thoroughly enjoy chatting through these issues with you every week thank you for coming on the show and uh and thank you for doing what you do thank you so much well it's been great fun