Transcript
Speaker: the average uh tonight we're kicking or we're continuing on our summer camp slasher series and we're hopping back on the bus to go have some good times at camp I'm your host Jonathan and joining me again tonight as your special co -host is our friend and author Jessica Lacey
Speaker: How do they do? How are you now?
Speaker: I did not send you anything. I said no script tonight, just freewheeling and dealing on this jam. but Joining us again, just like our last episode, we've got Sean from the Horror Vision. What up, Sean?
Speaker: Hey, glad to be back with you all to talk about... Some unhappy campers. Hells yes. And our other special guest tonight, we've got Chris, the bearded film guy. What up, Chris?
Speaker: What's up? Thank you for having me back Hell yeah, it was a joy to have you on. So... We have got Sleepaway Camp 2. unhappy campers and we continue the saga of the Angel of Death.
Speaker: Angela. Baker. Got a whole new camp, whole new bunch of kids. A supposedly reformed... Psychopathic murderer.
Speaker: ah Got glaring recommendations to work at this new camp, Camp Rolling Hills. Where she becomes unhinged. Loses her shit.
Speaker: on these new set of campers. And it gets messed up. This one is a little bit different from our original. A different writer written by Fritz Gordon, directed by Michael A. Simpson.
Speaker: Came out February 29th of 1998. kind of hearkens a little bit more to kind of campy 80s horror b versus being more serious like the first film.
Speaker: Wait, 88, not 98. Did I say 98? I thought I said 88. I said 1988, didn't I? No, you said 98 and all of a sudden I was like, my life has been a lie. See, this is what happens when I stay out late and go to concerts the night before a day of doing this stuff. Yeah. My God. Thank you, Corrosion of Conformity.
Speaker: ah My gosh. Anyhow. So here we are back at camp. Um... let's so So let's dig into this jam. Story and plot is our first category. Who wants to go first on this?
Speaker: Is there a story or a plot? Ha ha! Supposed to be. There's a kind of a semblance of one. I wouldn't say it's a great one. Kids go to camp. Angela kills them.
Speaker: Boom. Yeah, that's pretty much it. What's it five years after the first one. It's supposed to be Yeah. It's supposed to be five years after after the the massacre at Camp Arawak.
Speaker: um Supposedly Angela has been through lots of therapy. has gone through gender reassignment surgery. to be like for real lady, I guess.
Speaker: Um... And it's supposed to be okay on the path to wellness and ready to jam out with a clam out at camp Um, So yeah, shit definitely goes awry.
Speaker: We've got... There's an older cast of characters. uh she is now in charge she's not a camper herself she is like A bunk leader. works at the camp.
Speaker: and is not happy. with how the young ladies are behaving in her bunk. And she goes off and does not seem to appreciate the humor of the boys.
Speaker: and does not agree with some of the other camp counselors. She's a twist. She's all kind of messed up. She's a whole lot of crazy Bad shit. But it's all right. There is ah is literally zero character development.
Speaker: in this room. I didn't... We'll get to that after we talk about the story because like that that' that's a whole other ballpark. It's like, oh, but geez. uh but also just before we start like the big What the fuck is...
Speaker: Phyllisa Rose is gone. I mean, it's not really what I'm sure. Melissa Rose is like, yeah, no thanks. But Pamela Springsteen. who, yes, if you didn't know...
Speaker: Is the brother of Bruce, the boss, Springsteen. she Really? like she She's here to, um... To be Angela. Yeah. She refuses to talk about this movie in any way with anybody. i like Yeah, she she completely just refuses to do anything for this movie.
Speaker: I haven't seen any any kind of interviews or clips about it, so I have no idea. It's because there is no... I don't think there is any. They made these movies... back to back they two and three were shot back to back for under a million dollars wow and they actually had to the weird uh dream sequence that she has wasn't in the original script. They put it in there to meet the 80 minute runtime that they had to hit for a theatrical.
Speaker: Screening. That's how... Like... quick these movies were pumped out. and pushed out and there is legitimately no plot the movie starts with ah an exposition heavy campfire. story right into Angela just killing people. And that's the whole rest of the...
Speaker: other 75 minutes of the movie. Yeah, they jumped into the slaughter pretty quick. Yeah. And so for me, this was the first. of the Sleepaway Camp films that I ever saw.
Speaker: So I saw this one. then number three, and then finally saw the original. So it was definitely out of sync for me in how I view these films. Because I saw this one, I was like, oh, this is awesome. This is so fun. Oh, man, what the hell? But then I saw how serious the first one was. like Oh, okay, this is not, okay. Now that I got the backstory of the original.
Speaker: Versus what I see. on first watch from second, you know, Very different perspective. For sure. Yeah, I don't know about you guys. Like, did you find any plot?
Speaker: in here and ah other than her trying to teach morality lessons the whole entire time No, this is as exploitation as it gets. They just really were like...
Speaker: yeah All that plot shit will just get in the way. Nope, not in my movie. supposedly the idea here was that They're they're supposed to be making, not making fun of, but like...
Speaker: kind of harkering back at the decade of horror movies like that's the whole according to interviews with the director the whole idea was just we're gonna go back and we're gonna make almost like a parody of 80s horror movies. We're going to use all the tropes.
Speaker: We're gonna do all this stuff. That's why there's so much. callback to other franchises and things like that through it. And I guess... If you want to look at the movie in that way, it it works as far as like a plot goes of.
Speaker: If you really want to analyze the genre and be like, hey, these movies are nothing more than this. It's people at a camp. uh there's a lot of nudity they get killed off by somebody on a morality mission and it all accumulates to all the bodies being discovered, and the killer gets away, and there's a last scare. It works. perfectly.
Speaker: But that's not a plot. That's a... Trope. structure that this genre, this movie lives in created for itself through wanting to exploit and make money.
Speaker: So I don't know if I should take it. From a spoof perspective or if I just just go Well this is fucking stupid. Take it how you want. It's your choice to make. ah For me, though, it's like with with Angela and her whole sense of morality in this one, it seems like an intentional carryover from how she was raised by her aunt in the first film.
Speaker: Because even how over the top her aunt was in the first one, you could tell she had that certain sense of morality, even though she was weird and oddly loudly playing about it. yeah So I feel like that had a certain impact too. Angela is a character in this film.
Speaker: Yeah. I wonder if you could... Like, I don't know. Could you pull like a PTSD card on this one? I know that's not plot but... It kind of is. Well, I mean, there's definitely some some really tough trauma there. So, I mean, I i would suppose that you could...
Speaker: Qualify that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, that's I think that's pretty much like... i was When I was doing the scorecard you sent me, I was like, I'm trying to think of...
Speaker: how to talk about a plot. Or a story here. I think my favorite part of the plot is the fact that... Nobody questions. Like, outside of the fact that, like, oh, okay, wait.
Speaker: Okay, so wait it's her uncle, right, that i runs the camp, supposedly? No, they they just call him Uncle John. It's not actually related. Oh, okay. I just wanted to make sure. ah I just love that everyone's like, oh yeah, these kids are disappearing. You're just sending them home. Okay.
Speaker: No problem. Yeah, it bothered me a little bit. Like, where's the process? Where's the confirmation? Like, who's supposed to be picking them up? Who's supposed to be sending them? Who's driving them where? And it's done so quickly. Like, what's what's what's going on here?
Speaker: And the fact that nobody really questions that except for Uncle John hardly. Even for, like, the most smallest part when the one girl's like, I wanna go home! Boom! I wanna go home! And Uncle John's like, you're sending girls home. You got to let me know. And she's like, like, I just did. And he's like, oh.
Speaker: oh okay yeah okay okay it just carries on like nothing's whatever like dude come on what the far And that is some shit.
Speaker: but yeah so yeah she goes on her morality killing spree and we we think that there's hope and that one will survive at the end and then boom you get your final flash scare at the end it's like nope nobody makes it out alive except angela sadly that's That's the best ending that she's driving the truck.
Speaker: I know, right? It's like, howdy partner. And she's like, howdy. ah This bitch again. i yeah I wonder if you watch... I didn't watch this on VHS or any... like ah like I watched it on on Blu -ray where it's remastered. I wonder if in those previous prints, if she was a little bit... harder to see.
Speaker: because in in the blu -ray i watched she was glowing as if she had like the light on And I was like, that's clearly her. How did you not see that before? I know. Oh my God. That is lame.
Speaker: They didn't even try to hide it. They put her in full... blow She was more lit up than our than the character running away was. How did we get here? ah Odd directorial decisions. I don't know what to tell you, man. Yeah.
Speaker: So as far as story goes, it's clear there's not much there. It's just kind of a cash grab for slaughter. wait so With some tropes in there. in Jessica, how do you feel about the story? Okay, okay.
Speaker: okay Sorry. That's all right. Yeah. All right, so then we'll go ahead and kick off our first round of scores for the story. I'm sitting at a three just because this was the first one I had seen of.
Speaker: the franchise. I think I gave it a... Did I give it a 2?
Speaker: You did, yeah. Okay, yeah, I do. I just don't... I mean, as... minimal plot construction as you could possibly make up but it's it's fun so you got an extra star out of me for it Hot damn.
Speaker: all right
Speaker: And Sean, what were you? I did too. um I kind of feel like That might be... generous but at the same time You know, I like the summer. the summer camp. The - Tropes.
Speaker: to a degree so it's like well at least you know you you did those good. So it's not really. I don't know It's fun. So too.
Speaker: That's absolutely fair to say. yeah I agree with you on that part. said It's out of zero to five, I'm middle ground on it. so it It does something, but nothing amazing.
Speaker: And then so. That brings us up to character. We've got a wide variety of people Let's talk about it. Who are some of your favorite characters in this film?
Speaker: I gotta look at a list of characters because I don't remember who anybody is. Yeah, I nominate TC's mullet as my favorite character. Agreed. Yes. By far. but it's i mean It... it Oh, it's wearing him. So that's my favorite character.
Speaker: Brian Patrick Clark as TC. yeah his His mullet was something to behold. Oh, man. And the way, like, his back end just kind of fluttered around when he was trying to run around. Yes! Like, when he sees there's a point where he, like... It's a little fluffy flutter. He storms away and it's just like...
Speaker: Waving goodbye. Yeah. the bounce on that thing. Jeez. Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker: Um... I mean, I had a lot of fun with... Is it Chote? Twins? Is that how you say their last name? Yeah, the Schott sisters, but they call them the Schitt twins. Yeah, the Schitt twins. Yeah, they...
Speaker: They were fun. They were singing that song about... ah What were they singing about? Like... oh trying to remember the lyrics they said something about Oh. it's the happy camper song but like their version yeah I can't.
Speaker: end with like if something you can lick my titty or something like that Oh I got it right here. I see it right here. ah So here it goes. oh i'm a happy camper i love the clear blue sky but only when i'm face so everyone get high why I'm a happy camper. I love to drink and fuck. And if you pay me money on my titties, you can suck.
Speaker: So yes, that's that's the Shit Twins' is a special rendition of I'm a Happy Camper. Also, too, the The fact that she burns one of the twins to a literal skeleton and then the other wakes up to then confront. her skeletal twin is incredibly disgusting and brutal.
Speaker: It's... Crazy. I thought it was awesome as hell. Yeah. Best scene.
Speaker: Outside of that, like what other good characters...
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Ho, ho. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Yep.
Speaker: Uh, yeah. do You can't really count much on that one.
Speaker: a
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: he
Speaker: Is... Allie the one who...
Speaker: The slut. Yeah, ah the one at yeah okay the one that that's always naked. Okay. I was trying to figure out how to say that with a wet t -shirt girl in the pool. It was actually in her contract that she had to be naked in in multiple scenes or she wouldn't do the movie.
Speaker: Damn.
Speaker: Yeah. Valerie Hartman, you leachy queen. My favorite thing about her character... Is that. She can't get... she She's... with the that the token hot girl, right? But she can't get the guy that she wants.
Speaker: because that's my favorite part of it is that she's not going to get what she wants essentially and you have that little thing because he's interested in is it molly the other yeah Yeah, okay, yeah. that's I like that.
Speaker: Yeah, I like that. And I like i think... i think um I have her her name here, the actress, ah Valerie Hartman. I think she's great. She plays the role really well. um and she never gets to the point where like i Hate her.
Speaker: You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah, she has some bitchy moments, but I'm kind of on her side. And she has arguably the most disgusting. death in the whole entire movie oh yeah no hands down it's gross hearing her choke and gurgle like while she's being stuck down in oh down in the yeah the latrine there That's pretty fucking gross, man.
Speaker: It's bad. It's... It's revolting is the word. um And... Yeah, i that's that's a really good... dad that the show to I wish the show twins had hung around a little bit longer. I feel like that could have been interesting.
Speaker: um if they you know if they could have been like disposed of later we could have gotten more screen time and you know, their hijinks, but ah maybe more singing another verse on that song. um it you know angela bugs me in this movie though like it's fine but here's what i just figured this out this came out in 88 that's the same year that dream warrior no uh i'm sorry dream The fourth one.
Speaker: Dream Master. Okay. at which To me, it's the last good Friday the 13th. I'm sorry. See, there's the lack of sleep nightmare on Elm Street. Um... But you know my problem with the later Freddy movies is just the wisecracking one. It's like, okay.
Speaker: Why do you even bother make a horror movie? It could have just you know been a shitty stand -up. routine um And I feel like they went right for that. So they like... I don't know. It's weird. they the Shit.
Speaker: it It just, but it, it, it, where that joke, it's like, okay. Pick another note on the piano. I do enjoy the movie, but it definitely... I enjoy it more when it starts. And by the end, I'm like, oh, is this over yet? it's just And she just wears me out. so I don't know Yeah, I think the i This is probably like a story more of a story thing than anything. The problem is like Angela's not faced with many...
Speaker: hardship story like she's too she takes them down way too easy so there's never any real confrontation and not until the very end that final act at those last 15 minutes it would be more interesting if like Maybe she had tried to kill somebody and they got away.
Speaker: And then they were. like she was kind of trying to find them or like it was a little tougher but like every time she went after somebody she was successful So it doesn't The story is kind of like okay. She's gonna get her and she's gonna kill her and we're gonna move on the to the next It's just that yeah over and over and over and over and over again and to be quite frank i mean there's 18 deaths in this movie Nine women, nine men are killed in this movie. That is a...
Speaker: Fuck a ton. Yeah, it is. Big -ass body count. Equal opportunity murder. yeah yeah yeah nine and nine yeah yeah that's a really good point though chris because even that made me think you know you're saying like how easy it is for her even the show down with with TC and his mullet.
Speaker: all she does is throw ass in his face and that's like she didn't even have to contend with him he's the only person there that could possibly be a threat and it's like No, yeah I mean, just... Done.
Speaker: so Yeah, I mean, there's even there's even a five -minute sequence of her trying to find a weapon to kill a character who's obviously getting on her thing. And then... she goes to the she's like looking at the stereo and she picks it up and sees it oh can i and then
Speaker: but she goes to the point where she takes a guitar string off her guitar to finally like it's almost like a it's a parody like at this point that yeah That's definitely played... 100 % for laughs. Sadly, Molly was the only person that actually put up any real resistance, which...
Speaker: is kind of weak to me. considering how much stronger some of those other characters were because like When that other female camp counselor is like trying to find people. And like goes into Uncle John's office. You got one dude who is like red in the face, strangled and hung by a rope.
Speaker: Like, that takes a lot of effort to do that. Like, how did she really overpower a dude to get in that situation? And then cutting off Uncle John's hand and then stabbing him. Like, I don't know. It's...
Speaker: it's it's It's fantastical. it's It's out there. It's not realistic in any sense of like... what the struggle would really be like. Mm hmm. But it's just how is it kind of cheesy with how easily she killed people.
Speaker: yeah I would like to see more struggle. People complain that... i don't know I don't know how they do this, but people will complain and say, oh, it's it's not interesting that Jason Voorhees can't be killed because it just gives him no opposition.
Speaker: Right, which they had to go to extreme lengths to kind of combat in the later movies. um But here it's kind of like... This is more of a complaint of mine. It's like you have a five foot. Six.
Speaker: female killer who weighs like 120 pounds and gets zero opposition from the white, from 18 different people. that she kills. I mean, the most opposition she finds is that Molly runs away.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah And then like like she gets stabbed in the like side of her knee. And she still manages to catch her. It's not like... It's not interesting. It doesn't do anything for the character. And then...
Speaker: This was shot back -to -back with Sleepaway Camp 3, so you just get right back in the same boat. For the next sequel. She is like Uber Jason. yeah So.
Speaker: Yeah. I wonder if they really messed up and maybe it should have been... Jason versus Angela instead of Jason versus Freddie. Yeah. oh That might have been, I mean. Just on on the, you know...
Speaker: do they cancel each other out you know it's just like okay well you know nobody neither can be killed so yeah i think people i think the plot should have been that people forgot about angela so she pays freddy to bring jason back to camp rolling hills and then that's where the standoff This goes down. That would have been, you know.
Speaker: i got I gotta to wonder about Camp Rolling Hills, too, because having lived in the South Bay of... Los Angeles for 16 years. Rolling Hills. is where a lot of movie executives um Hollywood executives live. And it's like...
Speaker: It's not all, like, lush and and... palatial but there's a lot of that and it's like It's weird. It's situated in a way where like... The freeways don't really go anywhere near it and that's on purpose because they don't want people driving through you know But so I almost wonder if there's some meta like ah fuck the producers whatever like element to that um know i don't know if there's that much thought put into anything well yeah that's a good point
Speaker: anything here i mean they shot two movies for under a million dollars i mean when you have to add a dream sequence to pad out your runtime you're running on less than fumes at that point you know what i mean like yep So.
Speaker: Yeah, I think for this, I think I gave the characters, I think I gave them a three because I thought some of the characters were pretty interesting. you know they don't grow or develop in any way but i didn't really hate Many of them.
Speaker: Yeah, it... the Even the dream sequence thing. I guess we might harken back more to direction later on, but it seems like they're still trying to have. Kind of carry over this still more of a semblance from the first film kind of like they had that flashback sequence in the first one where you see Angela and Peter in the back and forth and, you know, all the memories and stuff. I see what they were trying to, like, kind of...
Speaker: keep that same kind of feeling with this when they did that scene. I think it just kind of reinforces the mental break after supposedly being well. You know. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Mmm. So, yeah, as far as character... Yeah. There really isn't much arc. she She was well, then she snapped. And she got away. So she lives to murder another day.
Speaker: And fuck everybody else, I guess. So... Score -wise. I gave it a two on this part. So did I.
Speaker: and Jessica?
Speaker: Let's see here You gave it a three, but we can change it to a two if you like.
Speaker: What? I mean... Yeah. I don't know about that. Stop stuffing more stuff. Alright. So next category, music and sound design.
Speaker: There's not really a lot to chomp on on this part. We got some... Well, we got some... We got some 80s grindage going on with a couple of 80s rock tracks.
Speaker: So there's not really much going on other than that Um... We had some songs from, let's see, Score, composed by James Oliverio. a song Out of Control written and performed by John Alton.
Speaker: Not really sure who is that. Uh...
Speaker: It doesn't stand out. Most of what you're hearing is nature sounds and murder and just dialogue. Um... So yeah, it's it's really hard to say much about this part.
Speaker: Mean the sounds of the killing worked. Well, you get a lot of that that they did a good job on that I guess But. Music wise, there's nothing much to it. Yeah, good sound good sound design with the gurgling and the toilet scene and you know, yeah like that but Apparently John never received a dime. Did this movie even make a dime?
Speaker: so ah We'd love to pay you, sir, but we didn't really make any money. It all went into part three. Yeah, see, the budget was like $465 ,000, but I don't see anything in regards to what it actually made.
Speaker: let's see So it looks like, according to... Wait, hold on. ah Oh, I guess there's no...
Speaker: Yeah, there's a no I don't see any sort of. Oh wait. Went on the... Wait. No. Oh, that's the original. OK. Because it was that bad that they refused to release any financials in regards to what it made.
Speaker: How much it bombed? that's how That's how I read that for sure. I don't know. It's weird because it's like, oh, the original made $10 million dollars at the box office. All it says is that...
Speaker: um Oh, no. Apparently... ah Supposedly, according to what I'm looking at, Sleepaway Camp 2 Grossed $10 million dollars at the box office? What? No.
Speaker: No. Is the internet lying to us again? Like it lied to me last time, last up episode. Right. That kid. I mean, what, up until this point? Look at me like that. I don't know. I can't imagine in 88 this made that much money. Yeah, it seems very suspect. I don't know. Mm -mm.
Speaker: Well, uh like in 88 what did what did nightmare on elm street for i just had it i lost the cut
Speaker: Yeah, let's see Oh no, okay, so the original... See, they hide this. The original went on the gross. Wait, you know what's crazy? This... The budget for this was $100 ,000 higher than the first movie.
Speaker: What? Yeah. Huh.
Speaker: Do we just... Well, she's got ties to New Jersey because of her brother, Bruce, right? So right there, it works itself out.
Speaker: Yeah. I feel the same way My friend Christine in the chat says Google google says 10 to 11 million, but I'm not sure if she's looking at what's for like the actual second film or the first film, like Chris was saying.
Speaker: Yeah, it says the first movie went on to do 10 to 11. Oh, it says, okay, so official box office results do not exist for Sleepaway Camp 2. Oh, shit. Okay.
Speaker: I mean... It could also be like... i Jessica, I don't know if you said that in jest, but... It wouldn't be the first time. that You know, there were like... The mob was involved in making movies as a way to like to hide money, right? so It's Hollyweird.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: There's no way this made that much more. Nightmare made 12. Well, almost 13.
Speaker: no Yeah, because it's like... like If I had to guess, I would say maybe two million on this, if that. If that this. This thing is so... It's so jacked up when you try to read into the history of it. so United Film Distribution distributes their first movie. Jerry Silva, who was a co -producer on the first one, um worked with Double Helix Films to produce a follow -up.
Speaker: A staff? Writer at double helix wrote sleepaway camp two and three and did it under the pseudonym of Fritz Gordon So he didn't even put his real name on it. Oh, wow damn that says and that's
Speaker: It looks like... It was. um Michael Hitchcock. yeah Yeah, he worked he worked on MADtv and stuff. yeah
Speaker: Oh yeah. Oh. Yeah, he also um he also starred in one of my favorite movies from the 90s, House Arrest. With Jimmy the current best Remember that one? we saw Where they locked their parents down in the basement?
Speaker: It'll get a 4k Doc's vs2 edition from vinegar syndrome in like a year. Yeah, that sounds about right Right on. So as far as music and sound design goes, yeah, it's it's kind of a...
Speaker: an empty plot there on that one. Oh, is that what we were talking about? i forgot yeah like i said we we That's how cool there is to talk about it that we got sidetracked so easily. But score -wise, like I said, there wasn't much there, but I appreciated the 80s rock music that they had. during A couple parts there and at the end credits.
Speaker: It... It's three. I gave it three simply based on the sound effect of the gurgling when she's dying in the outhouse. that In and of itself. Turd choked in the shitter. Yeah. Gross.
Speaker: Jonathan, what did I rate this? What did I do what i give this for? it You gave this section a two. all right sounds about right yeah so i saw a woman or two on this one yeah That's fair.
Speaker: Yeah, that's what you gave to you as well, Jessica. Right on. all right so now we got something with a little more meat on its bones as it were editing and special effects Yeah. Who wants to tackle this one?
Speaker: So what I noticed here is... ah it's This seems like... There's some really ambitious stuff here, I think, with the effects. But I more so appreciate this movie from a perspective of how to do low budget.
Speaker: visual effects. that are very effective meaning like squirting blood off screen onto a character to make it look like it came out of the wound buying like in spray painting skeletons black.
Speaker: And just kind of sticking some foam to them to give the illusion of... You know like a lot of the effects in this are really fun to watch from the perspective of like,
Speaker: This is really cool low -budget stuff like it it was effective enough that I didn't Like I've seen movies with a lot worse. Oh yeah. for sure like on these shelves behind me there is worse so they tried and they put in a val like a valiant effort for Well, you know. It was more effort than most else put into the movie, I think.
Speaker: Right on. I think most of what we see as far as special effects goes is when we finally get the full view of Angela's hidden cabin with all the bodies. Yeah, third real body dump, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: would Would the leeches have stayed on her body when she was in bed for so long? I don't know. I don't think so. Because I don't know if leeches feel like feed on dead bodies or not.
Speaker: Oh, my God. I don't know anything about that. My favorite is the head in the broken television. i Don't know. one Oh, yeah. Yeah, cuz she's even like look who's on TV Look. Poor Sean.
Speaker: Wow, wow, wow. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, my God. Yeah, that was kind of weird. I kept thinking every time I see a strangulation scene, like the... Guitar. String death. I can't help now but think of No Country for Old Men.
Speaker: that extended like three minute scene of him trying to kill you know strangle the guy on the ground and i just love that that she strangles her for 10 seconds and then she just slumps over dead.
Speaker: So Romero in the chat, he had a question. He says, what do you all think happened to the chick at the end of the movie? Her death is kind of unknown. And we don't really know what happens to Molly. we all we It's assumable that she died, but we didn't get any kind of info on that.
Speaker: and Don't remember.
Speaker: probably would be safe to say that she's dead but i just wish that we had gotten in some direction on that. Like, that's number two. Uh, there... supposedly there was a short film made in 2015 directed by dustin ferguson He made a movie called Sleepaway Camp 2, What Happened to Molly?
Speaker: Oh, really? And were you ready for the plot for this one? Uh oh. It's a short film about what happened to Molly after Sleepaway Camp 2. That's what the plot says. No way. the pila doesn and supposedly she was Impaled on a spike trap?
Speaker: that Angela made and then was eaten alive by Peter, by Angela.
Speaker: Yeah. that's Yeah. That doesn't seem like something Angela would do. It doesn't... Oh. Especially if they're popping out of a truck saying, howdy, partner! Yeah. you know Yeah, that's that's like the only information I could i can get, though.
Speaker: Um... What do you guys think? like the shock ending of the first movie we all know that right we all love that it's been talked about the death um what what could have What could the ending of this have done that would have been as shocking to follow it up?
Speaker: It's hard to follow that up. if she like henry lee lucas's molly and takes her on a you know to like with her like you're gonna sit here and watch and help me kill people or you know you're my acolyte That's about all I can think of. I don't know that that would have worked, but...
Speaker: Don't know
Speaker: Well, that would be like right like that That scene isn't at the... I'm not a huge fan of the first Terrifier movie, but like... It always creeps me out that like, oh, like... The end of the movie, he's like eating that chick. like What? I don't know. So it could have been you know ahead of the game on that. i don't think the only thing that would have made it more shocking i guess maybe in this one although probably would have been more comedic than anything was if like she had like a necklace of all the wieners of the dudes that she killed I don't know
Speaker: It would have fit though, right? I mean it would have been like of course Maybe. Being twisted, formerly being a dude. being raised as a girl and then going through surgery. I don't know. on honestly dude that could have worked she could have there could have been like an exposition dump at the end and then the camera pans down and her finger touches the biggest one in the middle and goes that one was mine and then ah oh Okay, there we go. That that would have been something.
Speaker: That would have been something. All right, I'm signing off for the night. Thank you. thing ah Yeah, although I do... ah It's not much of an effect, though, but I would say, like, at the beginning when we get the Freddy reference.
Speaker: And Angela pops up with the glove the kid made and then slits his own throat and he's dressed like Freddy. That was pretty funny. Yeah. yeah Yeah, they're they're... Like, the deaths are good. I mean, the...
Speaker: Toilet one is the most... Because it feels... That one feels like... ah Too mean. Compared to the rest of them. There's something like... Yeah.
Speaker: Like... incredibly visceral about that and it goes on for so long it it kind of actually like at a point i was like okay i think i'm gonna Like...
Speaker: play on my phone for a second because you kind of don't enjoy your time with it for a brief second you're like oh hold on this is actually ah And then when it's over, you're like, oh, I kind of got to take a shower. I think. yeah It's really mean.
Speaker: Well, it may be carryover from her previous experience with the bitchy women from the first movie with the one girl that she killed with ah the hot iron in the vagina. Yeah. know you know Dealing with you know bitchy chicks that she doesn't like.
Speaker: Especially ones that give her a lot of guff, like... uh, Ally did. Yeah, I would assume. That's why she was so... shitty with her ha shitty yeah intentionally you know making her choke on turds and leeches i don't know That's just my opinion. though yeah i mean the the shit sisters one is pretty like that's brutal as well like you know the The idea of burning your sister or her sister alive in front of her and then she wakes up and sees it. that Like, that's vicious.
Speaker: drowning somebody and there's that that shot Like... You see the front of the outhouse like stall, and we see that she's in it, and she's like shoving her down with a stick.
Speaker: and she comes up and then pushes her back down with the stick, and it just kept... it keeps going like it was i was like oh this is like just not Because the camera doesn't move. They don't show. I don't think they had the budget to be like, oh, let's show up. you know different shot of this But it just kept going. And I'm like, at a point, I was like, okay, this is kind of too...
Speaker: Keeps like too far, you know Those are the two moments that totally... are a departure from from the tone of the movie. I'm glad they're there because it is kind of like a a lucid moment and an otherwise kind of cockamamie kind of... you know thing um But yeah, both of those.
Speaker: are really And the Schultz sisters one is brief and it's still like played for laughs, but it is... I do really like that scene. And there is something about the fact that like. They, so... I mean, it was probably.
Speaker: help with the budget, right? To not have to do effects on one of them, just like you said, glue foam and spray paint a a skeleton. But also, I don't know. I feel like there's like a self -assuredness in like, we don't even need to show this death. We're going to kill her off camera just for the like.
Speaker: this money shot of the sister waking up, looking at her, you know, the skeleton of her sister. It's, it's pretty vicious. And yeah, the, the outhouses also. so I like that those are... are there.
Speaker: I would have liked to have seen more from the power drill. killing the car. Yeah. All you get is the swirty blood, but you get nothing else of that. and It's like, man, I would have liked to see some more gore, or at least, like... some kind of side shot.
Speaker: where You see just the side of the head where like the drill's going in and starting to bite, you know. They missed an opportunity on that, I think. so Sad. Sad, sad, sad. Imagine if like Savini worked on this movie.
Speaker: Oh, dude. That would have elevated it to a whole other level. My God. it put Their whole budget would have went Justice Savini. Yeah, I was just going to say, then there really would be no numbers for it.
Speaker: Or maybe would have generated some legit numbers because of Savini. Maybe. yeah That's before he was a name, though, really. Oh, I guess by 88. Yeah, no, that's right. he was a name That's right. Yeah, you're right. youre write Although I don't know that it carried the weight that it does now. Like, you know. um Yeah, could you...
Speaker: you Imagine him in interviews and he's like, yeah, he's like, I just finished up my masterpiece working with Romero on Day of the Dead. and then i was like i'm not I was like, I'm going to take a break. And then my phone rang. And it was ah Fritz Gordon asked if I wanted to do Sleepaway Camp 2. And I thought, yeah.
Speaker: well it'd be it'd be a little bit like metallica recording something as intricate as and justice for all all and then being like now let's just get bob rocking here and you know jam out on the black help you know like
Speaker: Man. Yeah, so... Special effects are what they are. The editing was okay. I didn't feel like there was too much an issue with that. They just kind of... went scene by scene by scene by scene. nothing no bad jump cuts or anything like that so Eh?
Speaker: perfunctory. Yeah. they just kind of did the thing and that was that. So overall. Editing special effects. I'm sitting at a three on this one. I did too.
Speaker: I mean, not also, but I did A2. Yes. Did I do three or two? Let's see. You gave it a four. Oh, look at me. Look at me go. you You gave it a three.
Speaker: Chris, you felt bad. do it Do I need to change score on that for you, Chris? Do you want me to lower that? You could drop a it to a three for me. I think I was feeling ambitious 10 minutes ago when you asked me to do that.
Speaker: It is cool that like... Like what you said, Chris, about how... it has a lot You didn't say this, but it like it basically has a lot of heart. You can see they really tried, right? And really, a lot of the kills are like.
Speaker: It's kind of like film school. Like, oh, look, like, you could do a... Like, they're showing you how to do a lot with a little, so...
Speaker: i I think that's kind of, you know, endearing, but still. Yeah, like, um and I forget her name, that that she strangles with the... the guitar string, but afterwards when they show the body, like they put blood on the collar of her shirt and stuff, you know, the show that obviously there was damage from that. Like, yeah and you don't really. you can like You'd be surprised when you go back to a lot of movies that are really well talked about and you go back and you watch them and you kind of look at...
Speaker: how the effects are done, it's really like... What you could sell with just some blood splatter is pretty... You know like I always think about This is gonna be like a crazy thing, but I remember when I was like when I when I first began studying film Um,
Speaker: I had a friend that like broke, he wrote down a whole bunch of scenes and he's like, yo, watch all of these clips and tell me what you did and what you didn't see and tell me if it ruins your impact of the movie. And one of them was Die Hard. Which is you know one of the best action movies ever made. And it's when Hans shoots... um What's his name? Who runs...
Speaker: um Nakatomi Plaza. Um, What's the character's name? Hmm. The older Japanese gentleman, correct? Yeah. I can't think of his name, but okay. Everybody...
Speaker: yeah when he shoots him we don't see it they just sell it with that blood splatter on the glass window and then the camera pans down to show that uh john mclean witnessed it And that was one of the ones that he sent me.
Speaker: And he's like, look at this. There's literally no. effect here there's no squib which that movie has plenty of like they could have sold this no problem like they could have done a lot more with this but all you needed was that Yeah. You just needed the blood splatter and you can sell it. And that's what this movie does for the most part. It just kind of squirts some blood around. It sells the effect that somebody has died and you still get the serotonin release or whatever happens when we see blood splatter in movies. um And then.
Speaker: It works, you know? So, like, I admire that more than I admire... not putting in any effort and just trying to like you know like i'll move past it like i i like this more than i like most off -screen deaths you know well what what about ah I kind of i understand why they wouldn't show show this part.
Speaker: But, like, the the two pervy young boys taking all the tit shots. can't really I guess you can't really show children being murdered. back then i guess so but you see the two boys that are strung up against the cabin And then the... female cancer pulls ahead and it's like, oh, ah.
Speaker: It would be cool to see what she'd actually done to them. But. Yeah. Yeah, we got to get the Snyder cut a sleepaway camp to
Speaker: oh my god Alright, so, moving on. Script. Was the script well thought out in unique? Ha ha. No.
Speaker: ah
Speaker: Yeah. I think you're right Yeah, I think that that about sums it up. I mean, I didn't even know that that uncle was an uncle. I thought he was uncle. Slink.
Speaker: Same. No, I guess everybody he calls him Uncle John. no He's just some old dude running a camp and, oh yeah, just you don't call me Uncle John. You know, whatever. I know, right? Well, at least it wasn't creepy like the the camp owner from the first one. Yeah. here Yeah, Uncle John was it was a lot sweeter.
Speaker: seeming of a character, a little more endearing. as't old His voice, too. I didn't look him up, but I had a feeling he he's a stage actor because his delivery was so kind of out of place.
Speaker: Walter Gotel. yeah It's nice. She had a lot of work in the past. but i had a moment I had a moment where I was like... ah i think it was I think it was, yeah, TC. We talked about his his mullet earlier. Like, the first Sleepaway Camp...
Speaker: i i admire because as a straight married man i watched the first sleepaway camp and i like i admire all these men in short shorts and crop tops right and instantly when tc came on screen I'm like...
Speaker: this This dude's attractive as hell. What's going on here? like He's got this one guy, this this hunk of a dude with great hair. He's got a great personality running around in this movie. Like, let's do something with this. Like, when he starts, like, going to Angela, like, hey, I really want to...
Speaker: yeah get together and talk about what happened i'm like this is great we should continue this this is really interesting and then they just do Nothing with it, you know? nothing it's a shame Poor TC. He got let down.
Speaker: He did. And that was his battery that she took the acid out of. That is one of my favorite parts of the script. It's the fact that they actually had a moment where TC goes on stage and begins rattling off a list of things that are missing. And it's all stuff that Angela has has has used or will be using to kill people in some way.
Speaker: and I love that. They're like, just make a list of all the shit she's going to use because she had to get it somehow. And he's like, and my battery. Yeah. And I was like, where? Yeah, I was like, wait, where did you use a battery? And then I see her dumping out the battery. full I'm like, oh, there we go.
Speaker: It took me a minute to catch that too. at first in that scene it's like she is dumping what like in the sink right but i'm like what is she because i had forgotten they mentioned it so i'm like is that power battery right so it's like oh oh nice there's some Christopher Nolan shit man Hey, that's good.
Speaker: yeah yeah well Or as close to Christopher Nolan shit as this movie. ah
Speaker: Listen, dude, that would have been a great twist, though, if it was like Tenet. Where, like, TC goes backwards and he's able to unwind and get them all back. And then, you know what I mean? like oh my god Oh. Great, man. That'd be great. No, I do think it it does feel like that. I think, and obviously we're not going to know, but it does feel like that scene was shot.
Speaker: kind of towards the end of the movie where they're like okay look we have this running list of ways we've killed people like we can put this in there the nothing about the script feels like pre -thought out in any real like way it does kind of feel like a as basic like ah like with comedies where they write punchlines first and then they begin to write stories kind of around that. It feels like a sketch, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of fun lines throughout the dialogue though. uh primarily from angela because she says a lot of goofy shit throughout the film You know, so like with the Schott sisters, she's like, let this be a lesson to you. Lights the match. Say no to drugs.
Speaker: Boom. you know And then Romero even mentioned like he liked how the match went out before she threw it at the fire. And then stuff like, oh, nice girls don't have to show it off.
Speaker: You know, and then, where is it? Uncle John, he's sitting there, there's his little bit of dialogue about how, like, all the good kids used to come to this camp, and now it's a bunch of, like, troubled kids, and where are the good kids in the world? And Angela's just like, oh, we just need to weed them out.
Speaker: You know, it's like, oh. And then ah when they're doing, when they've got the kids blindfolded and they're running them through like the the little. things of like oh what is this what is this like a halloween thing and angel's like oh teenagers brains and then like the lady next to her is like what is it really and she's like oh it's teenagers brains and nobody knows but it's like she's telling the truth she fucking took out some kids brains and i'm pretty sure it's the girl from the the drill kill
Speaker: I assume it's probably her brains that saw. muddled in that that little container that she's got. Um, And then goofy shit like when she's going after the one kid who's... Dressed up like... a Uh...
Speaker: Like Jason. and he's like she's trying to start the chainsaw And he's like, oh, no, don't. She's like, sorry, but once I start a task, I gotta finish, or I always finish. You know, it's just like... goofy little one lines and like even whole thing like where she's trying to get molly to eat in the cabin she's talking about the french fries And like, oh, you got to be careful. You know, you always got to read this. You never know what's in this stuff. You know, it's like, dude, you're out here killing people and you're worried about what's what's in a can of food. Like, yeah. along with you
Speaker: Yeah, would you say i wish I wish they found a way to to... to make French fries healthy because I'd eat a lot of them. are are not you say like them or some I'm a nut for French fries or something like that.
Speaker: Oh man, he's crazy. Yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely fun to be had. I don't think it's... i like I just don't think there's much.
Speaker: to it. outside of that you know
Speaker: Yeah. and doe I want to say, though, really brutal when Ally is with Rob out in the woods and they're getting it on. And then she gets up to leave and she's like, oh, you don't have AIDS or anything, do you? Like, dude, what the fuck? You just raw -dogged this dude in the middle of the woods, and then you're finally asking that question after the fact? That is some shit.
Speaker: I didn't get the ah when Takes her bra off under her shirt at the pool and then goes. Oh, no, please don't throw me in the in the pool yeah and then Open invitations.
Speaker: Pretty obvious, yeah. I do love, though, how she comes out, like, all... yeah And then like looks at him and he just turns a wreck around and she's like.
Speaker: It's very silly. Oh, they've got the one kid when he's dressing up like Freddy Krueger. ah he said ah He looks in the mirror and he's like, now this will give Angela one hell of a nightmare.
Speaker: yeah It's like, dude. way to rip off freddy that's that's all right yeah i can get down with that that's fine I love how this script makes the two pervert kids so successful. like Those are the best perverts I've ever seen. like dig get They got like the best shots ever. those photos that angela finds like i'm like damn y 'all are good at this like yeah They they are the movie patrol. Yeah. They are the Boogie Patrol. They are. They are. Yep. Oh, those little bastards. Oh, man.
Speaker: but oh that should have been oh dude that could have been like one of the twists i'm not gonna say oh i'm gonna say it du they're like she's like angela's like flipping through the photos and it's all like you know ali shirtless and then the last photo is angela getting dressed and they're like oh dude she's got a dick you know what i mean like something you know like Yeah, you see her corset thing that she's wearing, but you don't see the chest action. Burner modesty. Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, that was something. so Script, you know, nothing too crazy. You got your your little e quips there, your goofy, cheesy lines. Not horrible, though, but overall, I think the script sits at a three for me.
Speaker: I gave it a 1. Ooh, hot damn. All right.
Speaker: Go with what you feel, bro. No judgment here. What did I give it? Uh... You were at a two. Nice. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, you and I are on the same page on that one, Jessica. Oh, man. I would love to try to find a PDF of the script. the video It's just a bunch of post -it notes. It's like Xerox's post -it notes. It's on napkins.
Speaker: Romero says he gives it a two on the scratch. Hey, thanks for the contribution there. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so after Scripta, the acting.
Speaker: Yeah. That was a lot of fun to watch. What do you guys think about the acting?
Speaker: Two. Not even talking about it. You just scored it right out. I was going to say, it's definitely not the worst I've ever seen. yes That would be a zero, but no, it's a two. it's I mean, it's it's fine. she She gets to me, though. it's Again, it's that, like...
Speaker: i would I would give... Jessica's gonna... hate this but like I mean, it's hard to say No, no, i but because I'm going to assault Nightmare on Elm Street right now. But, like, I would i would give any...
Speaker: England performance in anything after... for a two as well but but it's It's slightly different because a that's like the script and like he had you know Negotiated to be in the movie less and blah blah it they changed what he was and that annoys me So it's not really Robert Englund's fault Entirely, it's really more just the franchise and the producers but This I don't know. I just felt like To ghosts. It's...
Speaker: It is just a scaffolding of of tropes, post -it notes. that you know The scenes are the script. The kills are the script. and And her... lines just some of them land but most there's just when every single one is that i'm just like okay i might as well be watching uh whatever Nightmare on Elm Street 6 is. Sean, your your lack of a...
Speaker: Your lack of a of appreciation for New Nightmare is stunning. to me and now okay new nightmare i cannot comment on because i've seen it twice i saw it once Like on cable at somebody's house.
Speaker: when it would have first gone on cable so what 98 something like whatever year that would be And I remember, you know, I heard about this and like, oh, it's pretty good. Then I watched it a couple years later and was like.
Speaker: And the last time I watched all the Nightmare movies was, let's say... 2021 and my girlfriend and I watched them and that's where I was like I actually expected three to be the last one.
Speaker: that was good not the two's good but you know i mean it's like one and three but four surprised me how good it i thought that it was and then from five it's like a a steep drop so i actually did not get to new nightmare because i'm like Oh. I'm just afraid like...
Speaker: I'll go to it at some point, but by the end of six... which i had remembered seeing i saw it in the theater and i remember it being great and i hated it more i mean i just was like this is abysmal so i'm like i can't Yes, and in fact... we had to sneak in right because we're underage so it was like You know, I mean, whatever year this is, ah we.
Speaker: we get dropped off by somebody's parents at the mall and then we go buy tickets or something and it sneak into the other one but we don't get the 3d glasses right so we're watching it without you know like oh it's not 3d what like it mattered and my god sales cooper uh I just think we should revisit new nightmare. Cause I will eventually, but I had to get the stink of five and six off. off of me before i because i just was like i cannot Yeah, I mean, i after six.
Speaker: I just was like, I can't do New Nightmare right now. So I will.
Speaker: I liked Freddy's Dead. I enjoyed it.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's just it's such a... It's such a change of pace going from Freddy's dead to new nightmare. Like if you, if you marathon them all, you're going to be like, what the fuck is good? yeah You got to give it like.
Speaker: You've got to give it a break. you know like like Watch all six, and then take a break, and then like a month later, watch just watch New Nightmare out of out of random, and it'll it'll work better, I think. I... i'm I'm glad you said that, chris Chris, because I feel like now it's been long enough. and I can watch the first or the third one anytime, but it's been long enough since I've seen five and six, which I'll never.
Speaker: I'll never revisit. Like, you know, two is one I i went back to multiple times. Because I'm like, is it as bad as I remember? Because it's my favorite. See? Oh, I love. I love Freddy's Revenge.
Speaker: but way I just realized that really says something about the the movie we're here to discuss. We just ended up moving along that took the entire franchise of a different movie.
Speaker: It happens. I'm sorry. on until i i'll I'll just end there. i will I will rewatch it soon. So I'm glad i'm glad you said that. I think enough time has passed. so I'm the king of tangents. so the Tangents are good, but also like... I mean I'm like thinking you know eight points ahead about nightmare and i'm so i'm like no no no no no no but Yeah, I don't think the acting is bad in this one. I think I gave it a three. It's like...
Speaker: It's good enough. There's definitely worse. ah you know it's fine none of it has any real impact like Angela. um uh springsteen who plays her like She's great. She sells it.
Speaker: really well she's really somebody that i would like that's a personality that i I like, especially as somebody who is in like a position of management and works with a bunch of different people. I like people who are oddly cheery and stuff, unless I'm not in that mood. Then I hate you.
Speaker: because I don't feel that way as well. Um... But I could definitely see, you know, the... the The understanding of people making fun of her and being like, oh, my God, like she sucks. But she sells it well, you know.
Speaker: Right on. this So between... Angela, I would say, or aside from Angela. Molly and Sean. and Allie were...
Speaker: The most. I would say... or the best in acting, and then TC also. You know, it seems like they were more serious with the roles. Everyone else seemed, you know, were being like B characters in the film.
Speaker: Didn't really feel like they were trying too much. Yeah. But i mean theyre I guess they didn't really have to because they didn't really have much going on. They had minimal dialogue. They weren't going to last long anyway.
Speaker: They get their shots in for being shitty about Angela and then boom. They're dead. It's kind of whatever. Uh... Yeah, that one girl though. That was always the tattletale that was kind of stupid Even do it! Anything! And I was like, all right, whatever. You knob, get out of here.
Speaker: so i i do look I do just love the disappearing or the... uh like the subtle disappearing of The, uh, like... sheets on the beds in the cabin yes yeah every time they come back there's like one more cleaned up bunk You're like, oh, God, there until there's not nobody in there. And she's like, yeah, right. to's left Just heard Molly. good It looks like it's just me and you. every Angela's great at cleanup. That is her specialty is cleanup.
Speaker: Oh yeah, she's really good. Yeah. She's a ninja. She's very quiet, apparently. No one hears her moving around, moving anything. She's a fucking ninja cleaner. so Yay.
Speaker: Oh my goodness. Well, yeah. Overall, it served its purpose. Nothing too... dramatic or over the top. Unlike Angela's aunt in the first one who just drove me nuts with how like weird and loud she was being.
Speaker: Everyone else was reasonable. um Yeah, I'm middle ground. I'm sitting at a three on the acting. Yeah.
Speaker: You want to throw your score out there, Jessica?
Speaker: ah I...
Speaker: I keep cracking up at this latest smile. on the skull. There's just like the littles it's like the littlest movement that pops up. and it's
Speaker: Paul did good work setting that up. Kudos to him. it's like good It's the tiniest little, like, it's like when your dog smiles. yeah like it's like the littlest like you're like oh my dog's smiling i think like god but also if you had a different context right so like if this was a movie and that appeared and was laughing because you're all three of you are gonna die right like like hip It's just so ominous looking, but good natured.
Speaker: Love it. it's Very good, very good. i goes All right.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Okay, yeah. It works. it's It's really funny because when I was getting ready for this episode... um Because I think it was... Tim had messaged me yesterday and like reminded me. He's like, hey, do you still want to? And I was like, oh, shit. Yeah. So I was looking at.
Speaker: like who all was going to be on. And I jessica i saw you were on and i was like oh shit i bought my wife this book Like I clicked on your profile and I was like I bought my wife tastes like candy I was like, oh I was like, ah cool. Good job.
Speaker: You're very welcome.
Speaker: All right, so direction. Um... I don't really know Where to go on this one? i
Speaker: That's my standard on direction if I don't feel like I have anything pointed to say on the category. I mean... It. As far as direction goes, I like how when...
Speaker: Angela's killing... alley that you get. it goes from the exterior of the outhouse. to from inside.
Speaker: the seat. And you get that that that upward view of Allie's face being shoved into the hole of the toilet. while they're talking in the shit. and then finally dumping her and then getting that outside view I've heard just coming up. gall you know, gulping air and just like trying not to choke on turds and leeches.
Speaker: yeah yeah it it was brutal it was rough to watch but i think they did a good job with how they filmed that section. of the movie. yeah I think like a lot of times people don't.
Speaker: um A lot of people don't understand how expensive little things that... contribute visually to your movie are like dollies. steady cams things like these like are a lot of money and when you're trying to when you're trying to make a low budget like you have to get creative and you have to put the time into finding ways to do it without spending money if you want something visually. And I give the movie...
Speaker: It's competent. Right. Like it establishes things. well there's nothing flashy it is just kind of very like coverage shot but i think that's just due to the restriction on you know, budgetary or Bill Mills, who was a cinematographer on this, who doesn't really have much else like significant work.
Speaker: Um, If you're given direction of like, just shoot it. then that's what you're going to do. You're just going to put the camera down and get. And get the shot. You know what I mean? So it's competent and it makes sense. And visually, I always understand where we are. There's even things like when Molly escapes from her like little cabin. from Angela's cabin of death and she's running through the woods. I actually had a moment because I pay attention so much to how films are shot because that's my background is in visuals.
Speaker: um i was at when There's a shot of her running through the woods. And I was like, I bet you they're going to copy this shot for Angela chasing her. And then the next frame was the same exact shot. of angela chasing her and i was like wow i could i could have made this movie i could
Speaker: So, like... It's competent. You know what I mean? It gets by. It's fine. There's nothing... flashy so it gets a three for me like at least i understand it Alright.
Speaker: I can dig it. That's fair. I gave it a 2, but that that's a that almost makes me want to change it to a 3. I'm not going to, but... it it It is competent, and it its you know it's got a little flourish, just like like Jonathan, the one you said. that like reversing the angle out of the outhouse and i'll refer back to that nolan -esque moment of the car battery uh But...
Speaker: Yeah, I know. so too especially back then when they're shooting on film like these were heavy cameras they took up a lot of space so You had to invest in equipment to use them. So at least they got it done.
Speaker: True story. So yeah. Three on direction. And I think... Most of us were there on that. See. Yeah, everyone except Sean was a two.
Speaker: We're all the rest was threes Be cool. Maybe we have more to say in this part. It Factor. Cultural significance, impact, what do you guys think?
Speaker: kind of impact this had. None. the first The first one here. This one doesn't. Yeah, the first one had a lot of impact, but I think it depends on Like, Sleepaway Camp 2...
Speaker: I almost felt like two and three I heard more of. than the first in my circle. like It's kind of like depending on the circle you're in. yeah like I remember being a kid and we watched...
Speaker: 2 and 3 because... they They... It didn't take the same investment as the first one. We knew the ending from the first one and we had seen it. But when I was like 13 hanging out with a bunch of friends, you know, at the house, it was two and three we would put on because they're more fun.
Speaker: You know, I mean there's more going on so And... The fact that two and three... in conversations like with physical media releases and things like that. When 2 and 3 came out on 4K, that was a huge deal.
Speaker: People got really, really, really excited for those. And the original Screen Factory. uh, trio. Um... you know was a huge huge deal and i always feel like in that circle people talked about 2 and 3 way more than they did.
Speaker: The first one, because the second and third one felt like more of a... if you know these movies you know these movies right the first one was more mainstream but like you're you're a real fan if you if you know and watch two and three like when springsteen's sister gets involved and all that so i think it just depends on what kind of circle you were in and what they talked about. I mean, I still gave it a two.
Speaker: or two or one or something like that because it didn't really make any general splash but you know, for us. This had significant impact. Yeah, so like said this like I said earlier, this was the first one I'd seen of the franchise.
Speaker: And then... I went immediately to watch number three. Um... and then later on the first one. Um, I liked Angela as a character. with having seen the second one first and how it carried over into three.
Speaker: And with them shooting it back to back, you know they they definitely had a plan. They knew the first one was going to be big. and they figured i guess that they would carry on the success and that two and three would really really flow along with that, which I...
Speaker: Apparently by the lack of financials. Maybe not so much. But the fact that they did. two and three, and then a fourth one. And then...
Speaker: Then like the the original writer and director came back with his version that picks up after the first one for Return of Sleepaway Camp. there's there's There's some reasonable influence there. that that caused them to to make that return.
Speaker: And then the three films that we've got with with Angela. Um, I don't remember the the fourth one. I remember they brought back the cousin. Ricky from the first film. in number four.
Speaker: Yeah. um But I don't think Felicia Rose was in that. Or did she make an appearance in that one? I don't remember. i don't remember but i mean good news for you guys i don't know if you heard uh but Robert Hiltzik, the director and writer of the first movie, is looking to come back and make a new.
Speaker: Sleepaway camp movie. It's actually being produced by Keenan of Keenan and Kel. Like they're doing a big Yeah. Just as you're bringing it back. my My friend Christine, she mentioned that earlier in the chat that Kenan Thompson's company got the rights to do a remake.
Speaker: Yeah, and Robert Hiltzik is pretty much given... full control like he is gonna write it he's gonna direct it She's going to release it. Like it's. really kind of a return back to i guess the ideas that he had expanding on the first one so Interesting how that turns out.
Speaker: very much going to be in the zeitgeist again, you know? So four, I keep forgetting four exists. Um, Because it's got the same thumbnail almost as 3.
Speaker: Um, But looking up four, which i've I don't think I've seen. Um, Felisa Rose? Is Angela Baker in number four? Okay.
Speaker: But, but so, so if he's crediting her as Angela, is Angela like not.
Speaker: but But so... switch
Speaker: No, no, but my question is... But so then is Angela not the killer in part four? Okay, okay. Interesting. Huh. Yeah, I don't remember the plot before. I just remember that that Ricky comes back.
Speaker: Maybe it was Ricky. I don't know. Allison.
Speaker: Oh, which actually I didn't realize that four was directed and written by Robert Hiltzik. Oh wait, no, wait. No, four is... Whoop.
Speaker: So it's... That's what I always thought was four. Four is actually the survivor. Return to Sleepaway Camp ignores Sleepaway Camp 2 and 3. Yeah. That picks up from the original writers.
Speaker: uh yeah his direction and where but that's apparently five because Four is Sleepaway Camp for the Survivor. And that's, it's directed by Jim. Maybe.
Speaker: Jim Markovich. That was Soul Survivor was never. I think, officially released. Okay, because that's the one that's on IMDb at least. It's Sleepaway Camp 4, The Survivor, 1992. Yeah.
Speaker: So The Survivor was abandoned during production in 1992. In 2012, it was completed using archive footage from the first three movies and was given its own on -demand DVD -R release.
Speaker: i want Okay. On demand. that they might They might want to rethink that terminology. because if i remember correctly i have a copy of it and i think it's a dvdr like it's a burned disc with like marker writing on the disc oh so that's why phillissa rose okay now i get it so allison is apparently the killer And it it has Judy. It has all these people from the first. couple movies because the the footage they're using okay that makes sense now it's an hour and 10 minutes long
Speaker: Wow. Okay.
Speaker: So yeah, it's ah it's it's a mess. But it's out there. New iterations were made. The story still carried on. Um... I don't know man Uh...
Speaker: I can't really say it had much of an impact, I guess then.
Speaker: Eh? I gave it a 1. for impact. Isaac Hayes is in Return to Sleepaway Camp as the chef. Tell me that's not adopted. Hell yeah, chef. That's completely insane.
Speaker: I wonder if he made any chocolate salty balls for the campers. I gave it a two as well. for the impactor.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, yeah. yeah Man, I guess maybe I gave too much credence on this one. i I gave it a three. but Yeah, it is what it is Call him like you see him.
Speaker: All right, so that brings us to our final category. How entertained were you? I gave this shit a fucking 8, bro. i i Dude, this mean it's a blast, dude. Like, I don't...
Speaker: I don't know how much more fun I can have like. Literally you talk about shutting off your brain and just... s sinking to the lowest of low for 80 minutes like it and here's the thing you could make a movie this fun today, but it would be two hours long.
Speaker: So... Like, every modern horror movie is two hours long. This is 80 minutes of pure just... trash right the whole entire time there's nothing i have to think about and i threw it on so sleepaway camp two and three i have a like ah um I guess it'd be like ah like a rip copy. It's from Sloppy Second Sales. It's like two and three are on one disc.
Speaker: They're in perfect 1080p. And I threw it on earlier. I think it was last night I threw it on. And I got an hour in before I started falling asleep. And I was, like, just trying to fight sleeping.
Speaker: because i was like i felt like i was at a rock and roll concert I'm like jumping up. I'm like... i'm having so much fun with it man
Speaker: Hell yeah. Yeah, there we go. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. It's so much fun. Sean, where'd you get it? i gave it a four it's fun but again but and like okay by 60 of the way through the movie i start to get annoyed with the the angela stuff so i mean it is fun but it reminds me a lot like i it reminds me of clerks in a way where
Speaker: Like, Clerks is... And, i you know, it held itself up by the bootstraps for so long. And then I realized at some point, shit, man, every time I put clerks on, I'm glued to the screen for about 70 % of the movie. And then I start to just like.
Speaker: I pause it or I fall asleep or whatever. and now the clerks is a much better movie but just you know the analogy is This one... It starts and I'm like, i you know, I remember it being kind of like. Hmm.
Speaker: Okay, I know I like part of it, but okay. And it starts, oh no, okay, I like this. And then like 60 % of the way through the movie, I'm like. You know, check and... the display to see, like, how long is left now? So it just, I don't know, it wears on me. I do, I i will say, though,
Speaker: I really like the third row body dump. I think... That is... One of the best, like when I first heard that term, it was in My Heart is a Chainsaw by Stephen Graham Jones. And I thought of Sleepaway Camp too. Instantly. So...
Speaker: I do like that. it but yeah I know you know I don't know it's I can watch it every couple years Maybe.
Speaker: Hey, alright. I appreciate... I appreciate that more than I do the Friday the 13th discovery of the bodies as you run around. it's And I like that the movie never shows you it before.
Speaker: the third act and it's like all of a sudden yeah here's this cat oh this is where all these bodies have been the whole entire time that's sick To me. So I... I loved it. The door is locked. No, it's not.
Speaker: He just opens it, right? Like, nope, not at all. She just didn't want you to go in there and see all your dead friends. But the fact that she pulled... What's her name out of the... outhouse to proper like Man, she's a collector.
Speaker: Yeah, I would have left that body in the shitter. I wouldn't be trying to drag it out. that's No, I'd be like, yeah, that one could stay put. It's fine. I'll just you know draw a picture of her or something and put it on the wall. Ugh.
Speaker: Oh, hell. But yeah, it's definitely an entertaining movie. I gave it a seven. It's one I can recommend to other people, not something I'm going to turn around and watch again too soon. I'd you know give myself some time between views on it.
Speaker: But otherwise... pretty pretty ah Pretty awesome film to watch. and dude try and shock other people with if you can get them in a group to to get down with it. Yeah.
Speaker: All right, so... With that said. Uh... With all of our scores added up, it looks like that gives us a 61. One.
Speaker: And I believe that puts us at three stars. on this film. Not bad. That's okay. All right, three. That's actually pretty that's pretty good.
Speaker: Yes. Three stars, is yeah, that's a that's pretty decent rating. yeah that's pretty good i feel like there was a movie that i was on this with that got lower than that Was it the burning? or No, the burning was definitely higher. I don't know. burn I forget.
Speaker: Yeah, I think what was it? ah First. First, I think we did like it was like three and a half stars. So this one scored down a little lower than the original. Three stars is good. I mean you go on letterbox and he averages over three. That's a pretty good Pretty good trust, you know?
Speaker: Hell yeah. Well, that works. All right, so any any final thoughts or comments about this film?
Speaker: Uh...
Speaker: Leeches are crazy, bro. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: Yeah, it's like the... the The more serious side of Letterboxd is giving it one stars. The fun side of Letterboxd is giving it threes, you know? Yeah. That seems about right, two points. so I mean, I feel like I'm a little bit harder on it, but... um so that if you know i don't know 2 .7 sounds about right or or three Sean, I want you to write a review on Letterboxd for this movie and include Nolan.
Speaker: In it and let me know You would probably be the only review on the platform that puts Nolan involved in Sleepaway Camp 2. Yeah, I mean, that was just so ingested. I don't i like I would hate to have to. like I actually put that in writing. But... ah You know, I mean, also, I'm like, I'm trying to give them something. Like, that's as close to Christopher Nolan as this movie's going to get. Which is, you know, admittedly isn't very close. but
Speaker: I felt like I was kind of ragging on him a little bit. and and You know, it is, it's a made movie and it's, it's. you know, the The franchise is... history Horror history, genre history, and and it is...
Speaker: I mean, it is like pure exploitation and... it's better There are a lot of examples of that. that are just not. good you know, especially when you have a low budget. and Oh.
Speaker: So I probably will not write a review of this on Letterboxd. I think like if you were to have a ah conversation about the later half of. 80 slashers sleep well I would put Sleepaway Camp 2 and 3 in there just as a...
Speaker: a great like here's a parody of kind of what was it happening like it doesn't take it serious it's very true like this is what these movies were like this was this was the lengths that they went and it's interesting because 88 you have the dying of the genre basically as you're heading into the 90s and all the franchises are dying out so it was interesting it was interesting it's interesting to see that a franchise Came back. or officially became a franchise with this and was like you know what we're just gonna make fun of
Speaker: yeah all of this we're gonna do everything that's pretty much killed this genre and now we can look back and say like it's a lot of fun when you put it all together It is kind of... you know like I have more fun with this than I do then i have a lot of late 80s slashers that are trying to do something. Yeah. legitimate, you know?
Speaker: Absolutely. We had a comment from Romero. He says if it's to the point where Pamela Springsteen wants nothing to do with the film or hardly ever talks about it... Sort of says a lot in my opinion.
Speaker: which is a fair assessment. do you think somewhere in bruce springsteen's catalog there is a song about how his sister feels about Sleepaway Camp 2 and 3. Oh, my God. That would be fantastic. I would be so down to hear that.
Speaker: Do you think at some point... He covered the happy camper song as like a like live That i mean would be fucking hilarious.
Speaker: Oh, my God. Oh, that that would be... He covers it and then gets his sister or him. What's her name? to or Pamela to to actually sing it with him. It's going to be like... on that it'll be like ah It'll be like Johnny Cash when he did Hurt. right before he died, he'll be like, I have one last single.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. This will be the one that really makes the top of the charts for me before I'm gone. Yeah. That's what I'd be known for. So hard. Okay, it is not on YouTube if he did it. So I thought just you know, you never know like somebody in the crowd in 1988 with a Tape recorder I've seen stranger shit on YouTube from those from you know earlier than that. Rare B -side cuts.
Speaker: Yeah. Rare, besides. Oh man. All right. So before we wrap it up, shout outs. Sean, if you want to do any plugs there?
Speaker: Uh... You can... Listen or... or Well, you can hear ah the horror vision, so that's my main... um podcast youtube show whatever it's anywhere you stream whatever uh we just put up a an episode that I feel is really timely and I'm.
Speaker: quite proud of and it's just titled liminal horror is not youtube horror because i'm sick of hearing people dismiss You know, ah, liminal horror, you too. And it's a it's it's not. It predates it by, you know, I mean, you can go back to...
Speaker: the twilight zone but we tried to kind of fill in like this is you know what this is here's the influences we talked about music and and photography and all kinds of influences Um...
Speaker: My book, Black Gloves and Broken Hearts, is out there anywhere. you I mean, it's probably not going to be on shelves in big box stores. Although there's a couple, but...
Speaker: No. What?
Speaker: Not at all. Why why would there be a dig?
Speaker: No, no, no, no. Is that a dig? No. No, no, I'm just saying. like it is you can get it anywhere but you know if you go to barnes and noble they can order it it's just probably not going to be on the shelf i mean people that don't really know much about the book business If you say, oh, you know, you can get it at Barnes & Noble, and they go to Barnes & Noble, they're like, well, it's not at Barnes & Noble.
Speaker: No, I publish through Ingram. I have the same deal. as a publisher that anybody has with Ingram.
Speaker: Oh, i don't I don't make shit. I mean, it... Seriously, with the with the tariffs? Like, what I made when I published Volume 4, and, well, that doesn't count, actually. because that What I made when I published Murder Virus.
Speaker: and what I make now, I mean, I was literally like, are you fucking kidding me? like And I'm not going to charge a lot for the book. So I'm like, whatever. I'm not doing it to make money. Huh?
Speaker: huh No, it's terrible. It's... It's tariffs.
Speaker: Oh, i don i I don't know. I don't know what they're... every the cost of manufacturing everything is through the roof so that or or they're using that as the excuse right which is like what the grocery store to you know does too like of course oranges are expensive tariffs it's like Okay.
Speaker: Damn economics and shit. Yeah, but... I mean, I'm just saying like, I don't. The idea is I write and put it out there because that's what I do. But also, like... gi I'm not...
Speaker: You know, Netflix, hand me a contract, make ah make a show out of Black Gloves and Broken Heart. Then I'll make some money. Until then. I mean... It's, you know. So that's not why I do it. But no, it was definitely not a dig, Jessica. Not at all.
Speaker: So, but yeah. So, Black Loves and Broken Hearts is ah out there. Murder Vibes is out there. Volume 4 is out there. Shadowplay. collection of desires, all of it, anywhere. That's it. Alright.
Speaker: Jessica, plug, plug, plug, plug, plug. plug plug Dig dig dig dig dig.
Speaker: Getting closer. her All right, Chris, what you got? Where people find you at? What you got going on? ah You can find me on Instagram at bearded film guy. I also co -host a podcast called beyond the blood where my co -host and I break down genre films and their audio commentaries. So we just.
Speaker: Yeah, we dedicate the whole entire show is dedicated to audio commentaries and what we learned in those. um Also, I... Not yet. so and It's on the list.
Speaker: Yeah. it's ah it's on the list it's coming um and then also too i want to plug uh i actually just So...
Speaker: I guess now I write for um my first column. uh in a magazine just got published um it's in physical media advocate magazine sold on amazon and in uh video stores all over the country all over the world now at this point um issue number 31 i was able to debut something called the commentary column where every month i review three different audio commentaries it's a full two -page spread in the magazine along with a ton of other writers and contributors
Speaker: um that's available now over on amazon it's only 10 bucks and it is most a full like community driven magazine with original art every month a ton of great contributors great discussion on all types of film including physical media it's created and run by disconnected which i'm sure many of you guys know just from announcements and things like that ryan over there um might The first issue that I'm in literally just came out.
Speaker: on ah On Saturday. So I just wanted to... plug that and you know, 31. Yeah, the elephant man cover. Yep. Oh yeah, nice. Yeah it is. yeah Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that was my first one. I did ah three reviews in there. And then I'm actually after this, I have to finish my writing and submit three more for next month. So I'm i'm trying to really. you know bring attention back to bonus features and keep audio commentaries alive and
Speaker: you know it seems like we're on the we're on the right track as far as like our viewers and listenership and stuff so just hoping to keep that ball rolling Oh yeah. I just ordered a copy. that do Do you know, do they do like a...
Speaker: So, Can you only get it on Amazon or do they have a thing where you can like... Is there like a... physical subscription or there's not yet not a subscription or anything it's uh primarily through amazon um but there are there are video stores all over i know like scarecrow video and there's a bunch um over to us that physically stock them as well as i think like australia and europe there's a bunch of physical stores that stock them um you know it's something like it's
Speaker: the The owner of it is a dear friend of mine, and I... just wanted to find a way to kind of keep the conversation alive outside of the podcast. And I've been lucky enough to have every single issue since since he started the magazine. And it's absolutely like just fucking incredible what he's doing. And as much as I hate to support Amazon.
Speaker: um you know the fact that he's selling these for only ten dollars yeah You know what I mean? it's it's it's It's an incredible effort just to keep... things physically alive, so...
Speaker: you know Any way I can push that, I absolutely will. Heck yeah. Congrats on the column. Thank you. Thank you. And while we're talking about published action, our regular co -host, Tim, who's not able to join us, has also got some books out there, if you want to check it out, under Timothy James. He's got The Harvest of Briarville, as well as Like, Comment, Survive.
Speaker: Sound footage horror. so Check those out. Get those books. They're good stuff. I particularly liked The Harvest of Briarville, so get those where you can. They are available on Amazon, but I'm sure there are other places you can order them online as well.
Speaker: Didn't he just have another one come out? I feel like I got an Amazon email. So did I. And I can't remember what it is. I was trying to find that to mention it. and um Lost on where that is in my email so much junk in here. I got to clear out but Yes, he's got another book coming up.
Speaker: Um... Oh, yeah, here it is. New from Timothy James. Rose Island. Yes, Rose Island. A historical slasher. So once that comes out.
Speaker: Be ready for it. Got a Kindle edition coming out and that on paperback as well. so With that said... That wraps up our episode for tonight. uh feel free to join us again in two weeks where we make our final trip back to camp to end our summer camp slasher series.
Speaker: for Sleepaway Camp 3. Teenage Wasteland Thank you, everybody, for being here tonight. Thank you for those who participated in the chat. We do appreciate it. You're always welcome to come join us on any episode when we're live streaming.
Speaker: And that is it. Stay safe campers! Goodnight.
