S4.E9: THE RAID: REDEMPTION (2011) | The Best Action Movie Ever Made?

Transcript

Speaker: Hey, hey.

Speaker: Jonathan.

Speaker: He's muted. sure There we go. OK, just crazy stuff. That's great.

Speaker: Welcome back to The Average, everyone. no I'm not. Am I still muted?

Speaker: No, you're not muted anymore. You're okay.

Speaker: I'm getting like a major delay. hold hold on. Okay. My computer's being all weird. Holy cow. I don't know either way. So start this over.

Speaker: Welcome back to the average tonight. We're kicking off brand new theme month. That's going to be faster, louder, and significantly more painful than anything we've done before. Welcome to the premiere of martial arts. May we aren't yeah sorry. That's Tim. Yeah. I'm waiting at myself. weve so off We've been having a lot of fun behind the scenes, getting ready for this part of going live is just dealing with these things as they happen. Oh, well it makes it more fun. ah We aren't easing into martial arts, May, either. We are starting at the absolute summit of modern action with a film that essentially reset the bar for choreography and tension back in 2011, The Raid Redemption.

Speaker: So this movie is 15 story gauntlet of pure unadulterated chaos. You've got an elite SWAT team trapped in a high rise tenement run by a ruthless drug lord and their only way out is to fight through every single floor.

Speaker: It's relentless, it's bone crunching and it's a masterclass in physical storytelling. I don't know what's going on with you tonight, but your mics doing that volume thing again.

Speaker: so sorry. Well, Now usually, we'll get through this intro and then you can do what you need to do. Now usually we're the ones deep in trenches of the obscure movies.

Speaker: But for a movie this brutal, we had to bring in some reinforcements. Joining us tonight are two guys who are making a very special exception to their horror diet. Please welcome Jerry and Rich from the Horror Heads podcast. Guys, take a moment and talk about yourselves and where to find you.

Speaker: Yeah, what's up, everybody? Yeah, so um as Tim mentioned, we are the hosts of the Horror Heads podcast. We release episodes every Tuesday, anywhere you can get podcasts, including YouTube, where you can watch the video.

Speaker: we We mostly focus on horror films, but we are, you know, we're fans of other genres. Like, i'm really excited to talk about the raid today. You can follow us on Instagram at Horror Heads Podcast, or you can, if you want to reach out to us, you can email us at Horror Heads Podcast at gmail.com.

Speaker: But yeah, look out for us every Tuesday. Like, subscribe. Check us out. Yeah. Jerry, what are you drinking tonight? here Well, actually, I got some Woodford dumb Oaks. So just that I'm drinking it out of a whiskey morgue glass that I just got in the mail. So I'm excited about that. But yeah, definitely check us out. We drink bourbon, review horror films. We love all films. Very excited ah about doing this film because you guys might not know this, but me and Rich back in the day,

Speaker: We used to watch a lot of martial art films. Like, you know, one of us would be trekking down to the local video store and, you know, pulling around the shelf and we'd watch that. i love that. That's a nice little surprise. And you did, you did mention when you volunteered to be guests on this one that you guys enjoyed this movie. So awesome. Rich, do you have a drink tonight?

Speaker: No, I actually do not have a drink, unfortunately. But yeah, a big part of our show that we do is we do usually play some drinking games. We sip a lot of whiskey and have a lot of fun. So but yeah, tonight I am just drinking water because last night I was watching child's play movies and I had to get hammered and I hung over as fuck today. I'm not doing too well. I understand. All right. Well, Jonathan, you ready?

Speaker: Yes, me and my my MGD, are we're ready to go here. So yeah um we're going to be breaking down the Pensac Salat choreography, the legendary hallway scene, and why director Gareth Evans and star Iko Uais managed to change the face of action cinema forever.

Speaker: But remember, this is your show. We want you live in the chat right now, giving us your reactions as we go. And most importantly, we need your scores. The average scorecard is live at the link in our bio. We're rating this on everything from the choreography to when that's technically in one of our categories to music and direction and all that. We'll be reading your hottest takes live on the air to determine the final average.

Speaker: The doors are locked, the machetes are out, and the climb begins right now All right. While we get started, Jonathan, I don't know if you want to unhook and re-hook your mic or try something there because it is still fluctuating quite a bit. And I hate to do that to you, especially because this is your movie. Let me see here because this is like some bum rap shit going on.

Speaker: That's all right. We'll let you play and we'll go ahead and start discussing the story. So I would love to hear it Jerry or Rich if you guys want to hop in first, because i am not much of a martial arts movie person. I don't never really watched a bunch of them. This is probably I mean, i wouldn't really count the John Wick movies as martial arts.

Speaker: um No, I would really. i would. Yeah. Okay. and they love you didn't that then that's about that's about my extent of martial arts films. So that's all I know. so I think that's a great you know i mean that's a great extent. And honestly, to me, this film, i mean it it could be appealing to anyone, i mean even even horror fans. um people that love action films, people that love martial arts films. I feel like this film really has it all. To me, this is like an action film that's like an hour and a half long home invasion. You know, that's just kind of like what it feels like to me, you know, just maybe like a little reversed. And ah as far as the story, you know, i think it's a...

Speaker: it's good action you know story it it doesn't it doesn't change uh you know the the face of the earth as far as like the actual storyline because it's it's it's a pretty basic storyline you know it's basically a drug bust that kind of goes wrong but ah still very enjoyable and it really sets up this incredible incredible action film i will Oh, sorry, go ahead. I was going to jump in and just say that, um so my first experience is I saw the sequel first, Raid Part 2, or the Raid 2, which in my opinion is the best action movie ever made. The movie is is just insane and amazing. And then I went back and watched this one, and while it's I don't think it's as good as the Raid 2 because lower budget and et cetera, it's still highly enjoyable. It moves really fast.

Speaker: It's just, it's, why I like this movie and the sequel so much, it's like action like I've never seen before. Like I've never seen the level of violence in the way it's filmed in this way. Like literally every 30 seconds is like a holy shit moment. Like I can't believe that just happened or oh my God, like there's so much stuff happening and the way it's captured on film, it's it's it's the director is a genius with how he did this. So like Jerry said, story wise, it's you know very basic. um You know, there is like a big kind of twist towards the end, which take it or leave it doesn't really i don't think it helps or hurts the story it's just kind of there but to me really just everything is just about the action this movie like there's some story there's some dialogue it's not bad it's not good it's just but there but really you're not watching this movie for a great plot you're watching this because you want to see a lot of people get fucked up you want to see a lot of guns and a lot of kick ass so that's that's where this movie is so um i would say it's not a bad story it's just not anything crazy compelling but doesn't need to be

Speaker: I'm glad you brought up ah The Raid 2 because this was my first time watching The Raid and I immediately after watching finishing this was like, I want to know more about The Raid 2, like more about that movie. And then I was reading that many people think it is actually an even better film than this one. And so I'm going to have to read that this weekend and watch the second one.

Speaker: Yeah, it's like if you take this movie and like just up the volume even more like it's it's great that there's way more story in part two. It is a little overly complex and it's a little long, but you get really into it. and But the fight scenes are just insane. It's like three hours.

Speaker: Yeah, it's it's more martial arts than guns in that movie, but there's some good car chases. It's just it's awesome. It's it's again my favorite action movie of all time. All right, Jonathan, do you want to see if you're working?

Speaker: Nothing. can hes I think he's saying that everything I'm saying is correct and I couldn't have said it more eloquently. I think that's what he's saying right now. Oh my goodness, man. How about now?

Speaker: I'll go ahead. Wait. Wait, we're here. it We hear something that's low. It's a super low. How about now? Super low. Still slow? How about now? Yeah, that's...

Speaker: Don't touch anything. Okay. It's working. It's fine. Son of a bitch. Don't anything. My hands here. My hands are here. We'll all go like this the rest of the podcast. We'll just do it. No one's touching anything else. We're good.

Speaker: Holy hell. This is like the worst tech issues I've ever had. Holy crap. My apologies, guys, and sorry, viewers and listeners out there. But so, yeah, this was my movie pick. I love this movie. And you guys are right.

Speaker: Raid 2 is much more elaborate, of course, because they had the bigger budget and they had more space to work around, more environments to to work with. um From what I understand, from i've I've seen some different stuff about this film, about the start of it. I think originally originally gareth Evans wanted this movie to be more of a city sprawler, but they couldn't get that to work. And so they condensed it down to just being pretty much all in this one building.

Speaker: um And I know, yeah, you guys are right. It just means seems like kind of a basic story with it, you know, trying to take down a drug lord. But there are some more underlying stuff to it that you kind of get a hint of early on in the film, but don't really realize until like that last quarter of the film.

Speaker: um but I think when you get more details about who's connected to who and the way things end it kind of gives it a little more depth you know so I kind have a huge appreciation for that even though it doesn't seem like there's much more there in the story but if you read between the lines some of the finer points there's a bit more to it that gives a little more depth so I haven't said what I think of the story. It is kind of the basic, uh, premise of you trapped in a building trope like die hard or dread it's get to the top floor or whatever floor is necessary and leave. That's kind of the main goal of the film. But like Jonathan said, I'm going to, I'm going to put those elements that you added in there. I'm going to put that in our script.

Speaker: Cause well, No, I'm not. I'm going to put them here. I do think I was at a point like 30 minutes in where I'm going, i don't know who anybody is.

Speaker: Once they all put those helmets on and they're all geared up and ready to go, I'm like, I don't know anybody. And it didn't really matter. Yeah, yeah yeah it's hard it's hard to keep track. it moves so fast. It's almost like a video game. um Probably by the fifth time you watch it, you're like, oh, that's that guy. You know? yes Yeah, it' totally totally understand. Everyone's lost. I mean, probably the first time you watch this film. Totally get there. I watched it first 30 minutes, totally had no idea who anybody was. I still probably couldn't tell you any of their names after watching it twice. I don't know anybody's name in this movie.

Speaker: ah Other than Mad mad Dog. I mean, that's awesome. Dude, Mad Dog. Mad Dog. I mean, you got Rama. I mean, he's yeah the protagonist. code But... i After on my second watch, I was like, oh, okay, because kind of they just whittle down your characters until you're left with the important ones. And so then on my second watch, I was able to identify like, oh, that's the guy that we're following through the whole thing. And I know the movie opens with him, but when they're all geared up in that ah vehicle and it's gritty and dark, I'm like, I don't know who anybody is anymore. I don't.

Speaker: So i like I like that kind of idea of throwing all of these characters at you and then slowly whittling them away. In a way, Jerry, you mentioned that the horror fans can like this movie, and I absolutely agree, because there's a lot of slasher-esque elements to this film. like I don't think I have seen an action movie where the kills...

Speaker: our slasher level of insane like the one where he jumps backwards and slams a guy's neck down on the door like that i was like oh like there's there's all kinds of cool stuff like that in this movie or when he stabs a guy up by the thigh and then just drags it all the way down the leg o scream right what what really got me about like the raiden films in general why it was so like it was so refreshing so you haven't seen before like in most movies other than like kind of john wick which is is very similar i would say to this like someone gets shot and that's it here it's like you're getting shot in the face three times like yes they don't fuck around like it's like it's brutal like people like get just destroyed throughout and it's it's constant it's not just like there's one piece like piece where there's one really cool kill it's like

Speaker: cool kill after cool kill after cool kill they're happening so fast it's hard to even keep track but that's that's what i was like love that about this movie it just again the way the brutality it's like it's something i've never seen before absolutely so when it comes to the story like i said i don't think it reinvents the wheel on the story we do when we whittle down those characters we start to get that character development a little bit more and start to connect with the two brothers They are brothers, right? That was my interpretation. That is correct. Yes. Okay. I didn't think I got it wrong in my two watches. ah

Speaker: The two brothers, that's a nice little dynamic that they have going on. It made me more invested in the outcome of the story just as that slowly unfolded. And then we also have that little bit of intrigue among who sent them to do this and the the sergeant guy. I think it was sergeant.

Speaker: Yep. The old man, basically, in the film. He's... leading the police, but that intrigue develops throughout the film. And I thought it worked for this story. So I give the story a three. I think it's good. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it is better than a typical action film.

Speaker: Yeah, it does what it needs to, right? It's not too where you have to think too hard. It's like you just it's a popcorn movie where you can just kind of sit back and there's enough plot where there actually is a story where it's not just a video game, but it's not you know it doesn't take away from the movie either. So yeah, I give it like it's in the middle for me. It's not good. It's not bad. It's it's perfect for this movie, though.

Speaker: Yeah, i' i'm with you i'm with you both there. I'm i'm giving this a ah three as well. Sit right in the middle. Just enough plot to keep it interesting, but ah not enough to get you lost. I think if you were to pop this ah film on in the background, do a few things, pop back in, watch it, you're still going to be really locked in. You're still going to enjoy it from basically the moment that you pick it up. And I think that um says a lot about the actual, you know, the filmmaking and and how exciting it is. But, you know, the plot, it's just mid, so I'll give it a three.

Speaker: That's fair ah for me. I said, I really love this film. So for me, it's a four. That's fine. That's fine. You can you can score it however your heart leads you, Jonathan.

Speaker: That's why we do it. All right. So the character arc, this was this was a tough one for me. So character arc, I I'll go ahead and jump in on this one. I didn't see much of an arc.

Speaker: We kind of end the movie with who they were at the beginning of the movie, even though we learned more about them. I don't know that the characters walked away with any big revelations that like changed who they were.

Speaker: You know, we, we maybe the antagonist, uh, kind of the, The shady police guy, you might have the biggest like turn, but I still don't... like That wasn't super compelling. I think we have the good brother, we have the but brother who pursued a different path. They come together for each other, and then at the end of the movie they're like, I am who I am and go their separate ways.

Speaker: And so they're kind of still exactly where they were at the beginning of the film. They just helped each other out during this heist scenario. So I didn't see a ton of character art. That doesn't mean the characters themselves were bad. Like I said, adding in that character development really helped me like connect and made my heart pound through the rest of the movie to get to the conclusion and want to know where things ended up. I just didn't think that there was a lot of growth or development of the character themselves.

Speaker: Yeah, I'll agree with that. I don't think there's any but growth or development in the characters themselves. Like there really is, other than the, the you know, the one brother who's with the drug lord who ends up helping his brother once he he realizes what's happening. There really isn't a kind character. But like, you know, if you look at like most action films that are like this, there really isn't either. Like I'm thinking of like Stallone movies, you know, Schwarzenegger movies. And they're straightforward. The person's a badass from the beginning and they're a badass in the end.

Speaker: So for me, like I put this, if I was going to rate this zero to five, I put it in the middle because while there is no character arc, I think it fits in line with this type of movie and it doesn't take away or you know really add to the movie either way. it's just kind of, they're just there. So I agree with you, but for me, I don't think it takes away from the the film at all. And I think it's comparable.

Speaker: Yeah, you know, I think a little bit different. So I thought the way that these characters started and the way that they ended, you know, I kind of started feeling something for for each one of the characters and saw them develop, you know, just a little bit. And I ended up liking each one a little bit more. And I was really conflicted. I didn't know who I liked more. I didn't know if I liked the ah the good guys or the bad guys better. ah But I mean, just kind of thinking about like Rama, who is the ah protagonist. I mean, he starts off, he's like the young guy you know, he's coming in. And I feel like towards the end, he's like the leader, you know, he really takes like a ah ah leadership role. ah And he also kind of

Speaker: sticks up for his family. you know we We know that he's basically going to look aside and and let you know his his other you know his brother kind of continue down this this path of of being a criminal. I thought that was pretty interesting. And then looking at Andy, who was his brother, um i mean, he ended up kind of risking his life and knowing you know that all the cameras that that are in the building that he was going to get caught. He still risked his life to to kind of help his brother out. And I thought that was like super interesting too. um So for me, those those two characters had had the the biggest arc. But I mean, i like Mad Dog. I mean, he he basically kind of just showed that

Speaker: he would do anything to kind of like back his you know his his team and and his his leader and i thought that was kind of interesting too because this guy was literally i think he was four foot eleven and he was like the most badass guy there and and to me i mean he he just kind of showed like some heart that i didn't know that he was gonna have in the beginning so um yeah The first time I saw this film, yeah I didn't know any of these things. Obviously, this time I watched it, I probably watched the film five, six times at this point in my life. But you know I remembered it, and I'm like, yeah, that's that's pretty cool. So I thought some of the characters had some arc, and ah it maybe liked them all a little bit more. I agree with you there.

Speaker: You make some great points on that, for sure. Jonathan? Absolutely. I agree with you on that one, Jerry. um You know, you start out, you've got your main character, Rama, played by Iko Uwais.

Speaker: You know, yeah once he gets mixed into the shuffle of everything with their whole SWAT team, yeah, you kind of lose sight of who's who. But as it goes, you see that he's a good guy. He doesn't want to hurt anybody. He wants to try and do this as quick as possible, safely, so nobody else gets hurt.

Speaker: if they don't have to. And then finding out that he knows that his brother's involved in this, even though he hasn't seen him in a long time and not knowing where he is and then finding out, oh, shit, my brother's part of this whole thing. Hopefully I run into him.

Speaker: And then they do finally meet even though they're on opposite sides of the spectrum here, you know, taking care of each other, looking out for them, even though it doesn't quite work out so well for them for a bit there, but still fighting to save each other, maintain that integrity, and then finally understanding each other a bit better, especially with Rama being the police guy who's on the right side of law and for justice and for the good stuff.

Speaker: And then just, you know, finally being like, okay, family. Yeah, it's like, okay, so you're going to what you're going I get it. I'm not going to force you to come with us. And having that sense of understanding and that sense of peace that he can bring to his family for his father.

Speaker: Because it says at the beginning, like, i'll you know, i'll I'll try to bring him home. You know, so there's, you know, you get that underlying sense. There's some more going on than just we're going raid a building. So I have appreciation for that. And like said, with Mad Dog, played by Yaya Ruhan, that guy, he actually trained.

Speaker: for like the Indonesian secret police and the military police back in like the 80s, early 90s. That guy is a fucking beast. Like, holy shit. He brings it. He fucking brings it. the The conviction in the character as the bad guy is just fucking la fucking glorious.

Speaker: know so you can't fault that um sergeant wau you the old guy who fucking ends up eating shit in the end for it yeah you know you think that he's like part of the good guys he find he's kind of a shit bag and then you get see that he gets brought to justice a bit in his own way even though i thought he was a shit bag from the beginning to be honest i was like this guy he he wasn't excited about anything was dragging his feet at the beginning i was like this guy's kind of just a shit bag i don't like him Oh, he's old. doesn't want to do this shit. be fucked up. You know? So, I you got to kind of understand that aspect of it.

Speaker: but But when you talk about the other guys in the SWAT team, you're not knowing who's who. You got Jaka, who's like the main secondary, who wants to just like fuck up that one guy trying to get to his wife in the beginning. You know And he's like, no, no, no. We're not going to do that. And, you know, when the survival insects kick in and shit really hits the fucking fan, they they really fucking were there for each other. And as a team, as a SWAT team, you see those guys really give it their fucking all trying to survive against all these other motherfuckers trying to take them out. Once they get fucking exposed, man, I gotta love it, dude. It's it's so fucking awesome. It's so raw.

Speaker: So maybe not seems like there's a lot of art there, but I think there's something worthwhile. I think there was a moment where, sorry, ah Tim, but i i think I think there was like a moment basically where he basically, or Rama's telling Andy that, you know his wife is pregnant and that he's going to be an uncle. And that felt like a moment there where they both kind of like, almost like the sound drops out and you kind of forget that all like this,

Speaker: craziness and chaos is going on. And they just kind of became brothers at that at that exact moment. And to me, that was like, all right, you know, there's still there's still people, they still care about each other. And, you know, they kind of forgot about their you know their jobs per se. I mean, i don't know if being a gangster is a job, I guess ah history professionion of sort it income. say that's It's a moneymaker. ah i'm stuck on rich i'm sorry forget how do you know where i was going with that guy yeah but that scene that scene where they're connecting his brothers again i actually think is one of the more brilliant scenes of the movie because we are physically watching rama barely able to stand at this point

Speaker: beat to hell, tired, exhausted. That is the part that like, the physicality in this movie is insane. You would be so tired.

Speaker: ah But we're looking at Rama barely able to stand, and then we get that moment with his brother, and his brother ends up being injured later. And so now they have like this, Rama is tired,

Speaker: His brother Andy is injured and they have that reliance on each other to get through to the end. And I think that's a great little moment where also the audience gets to catch their breath because it is unrelenting for about an hour and 15 minutes and then we get like a five minute catch a breath break and then we go to the conclusion and that's about it. But I think that's a great scene for the characters.

Speaker: you guys have convinced me to come up a little bit in my score so it does you made some good points and i can already see after watching it twice i picked up on a lot more so i'm sure there's more there to be seen it was just the first time you watch it you're just like holy shit yeah it's a lot it is a lot so i'm a three on the character arc yeah i'm with you as well i'm a three also just for same reasons we discussed Three.

Speaker: Keep it going. yeah Five. All right. Not shocked. Not shocked at all. So moving into music and sound design, i there are two scores for this movie.

Speaker: There's the original score and then there's the Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park score. I don't know which one I watched.

Speaker: i Did you watch a dubbed version of it? that No, I watched it was a subtitle. So that that shouldn't have been Mike Shinoda. That should have been the original, I believe. Okay, because I was really underwhelmed by the music. Like it it it was fine. It was fine for the film. It served its purpose. It helped with like some of the tense scenes. There's never a moment I was like, oh, this is bad.

Speaker: Except the one moment where the snipers are getting into position. And it's playing like the music choice at that moment reminded me more of Quentin Tarantino than like what song he would have picked.

Speaker: And it just stands out a little bit from the rest of the music, but I want to watch it with the Mike Shinoda. So that's the version that I watched and it's awesome. Okay. It's like a lot of techno industrial electronic music. And especially with the fight scenes, it's really, really good. Now I actually, I watched the subtitle version that had that score. So who knows, like,

Speaker: how to find what, but that's the version that that I have at home. And it's, um yeah, I love the score. It fits the movie. It's like fast-paced, intense, really gets you in there.

Speaker: in addition to this the score, like just the sound design in general is amazing. And i was reading that they created a lot of sounds themselves by like doing their own kind of ah foley and things like that. But again, the the punches sound like intense. The gunshots sound really good. You hear the bullets falling. It's,

Speaker: It's impeccable, the sound design, I think, in this movie. It really like helps elevate, I think, in general, just that. But but yeah, i would I would definitely suggest checking out the the one that has the more industrial electronic music. It's really good.

Speaker: I gotta find that. place yeah I gotta find that, because I just streamed the unrated version on Fandango at home. I rented it from that, so I have no idea what the soundtrack on that was. But it was definitely not what you were describing, so I need to i need to find it.

Speaker: ah Me personally, i thought the i thought the music was was great. I've seen both versions. um Probably remember the original one more. Actually bought this recently, so I actually own this. It's a very, very humble physical media. collection this is one of the things i actually own um is is this on blu-ray i thought mike shinoda's music was fantastic uh echoing what rich said the sound design is really where this excels i mean i just love like how they use the effects and how they don't use effects and you know some things that i thought were like super cool is it felt like, you know, during the fight scenes, like Rich mentioned, it sounds like they really crank up, like, the the sound of, like, a machete swinging, you know, the sound of a gunshot, the impact of a punch. All these things were, like, like really made an impression and an impact on me. I was like, wow, you almost, you, like, you feel like you're there. But what I thought was the most interesting were, like, the moments where they dropped all the sound out and all you heard was, like, the fighting noises. And you're just like... oh my, now you're focused on only one thing and that's like really just this what's in front of you and and there's no distraction. And I thought that was brilliant and bold as as well, just to kind of be like, no, let's just go with fight sounds. And I like that a lot. So I think this this film really, really excels here.

Speaker: Yes, they are on point with all the beat-em-up, smash-em-up, shoot-em-up sounds. Like, everything, like, dudes being thrown out of fucking windows when they're coming through the ceiling. you know, when Iko just, like, kind of runs up, grabs the guy as he's dropping and just fucking throwing him out that window. The sound of that's incredible.

Speaker: In that inner hallway where you can see all the way down to the first floor where he's, like, hiding up in that corner, grabs that guy, and throws him across and the guy lands on his back snaps his back and dies on the edge of the the rail there like the sound of that crunch dude it's like oh my god and even where you see that scene where they get that that that epic hallway fight scene where he grabs that guy jumps back through the doorway and smashes his neck on the splintered parts of the bottom door frame just that sound of that just oh my god so visceral so fan fantastic even when they're when rama and his brother andy are fighting mad dog at the end and he takes that piece of the light bulb that neon light and just jams it and you hear him drag it across his neck and and so jonathan do you like this movie this

Speaker: really I mean, those are some awesome things as as a person with um that has back issues and a rich. This film really affects me because not only could like I feel it, I can hear it, too. i'm like, oh, God, no, no, I'm going work tomorrow. so That guy. ah Those are some really graphic scenes that you just ah mentioned, Jonathan. And, ah you know, just just like the like.

Speaker: on a regular TV without like a lot of, you know, speakers surround sound, things like that, to still be able to kind of hear like the wind, the gurgling and things like that. I mean, that you have to do a great job on the sound design and all those scenes were were incredible and even like more gruesome and brutal because you heard it, not not only just, you know, visualizing it. So yeah, those are some great scenes.

Speaker: i think you guys nailed it. The sound design is Like I wasn't super impressed with the score, but I thought the sound design was the highlight of the movie. i For me, it felt very realistic.

Speaker: Like the gunshots didn't sound like cannons. The punches didn't have the like it sounded like meat smacking you know it sounded real so i appreciated that and i know it's still cranked up because it's not that loud in person but whatever it it it helps with the movie so i i like that i also like just the sounds of breathing throughout this movie. Because this what they're doing is exhausting. And I know they're taking the the actors and their exhales and their grunts and all of that is real. And it makes it more immersive for me. I was in that moment and I'm going, man, I'd be passed out already. I don't know how this guy's still standing and doing flips. I would be on the floor. So I was super impressed with the sound design. I gave it a four.

Speaker: Yeah, I'll go next. I gave it a five just because, again, I did have a different experience watching it with the Shinoda score, which is really great. And yeah, it's just it's the sound in and the music in this movie really helped drive everything forward. So I thought this to me.

Speaker: Yeah, I initially gave it a a four, but you all kind of talked me into bumping it up to a five. So i don't know if that's possible, guys, to to change my rating so late. I got your change.

Speaker: Thank you. I'm going to stick with, I'm going to go at a five. I mean, it hearing everyone and and kind of like, maybe some of the things I might've missed and now hearing it, I'm like, man, this, this was perfect. How, how does it get any better than this? So five. that That's totally awesome. Uh, for me, I've never actually watched the American version of it. So I never got that Mike Shinoda effect. The music itself, of the the score is very low key and it just does exactly what it needs to do as far as the original Indonesian version. Um, but with the way everything worked out with sound effects, um, I was at a three, but I'm gonna change mine to a four.

Speaker: right.

Speaker: and I love watching the fight scenes in the in your in your background there, Tim. That just makes me happy. Oh, yeah. The hallway scene, the the incredible hallway scene.

Speaker: Well, let's get to the editing and special effects, which is a major player in making things like the hallway scene work. So who wants to take that one a away?

Speaker: I'll ahead and jump on that. um So with this movie, when it comes editing special effects, they used all replicas. They are like spot on replicas, even though there's no real bullets, except for the part where they're shooting up the the van. That's like they had to do that one take because they couldn't afford another van for this. So that's the only time you get like actual real bullet action.

Speaker: But the rest of it, the way they matched up everything with the bullet effects, the muzzle flashes, with these replica rifles and pistols was just amazingly spot on. I think they did such a great job. You couldn't even tell as far as I can, I'm concerned that it was fake on this part. It looks so realistic um that you got to really appreciate the hell out of it. And the blood effects,

Speaker: on everything with the way every guy was getting fucked up whether it's a guy getting a guy to axe in the neck or getting stabbed in the leg just even the cut in the face when ah rama and his buddy jacka are in the wall hiding in that guy's apartment that scene is so tense the machete the machete right there on his face it's like oh man it's so good and then the editing itself the way there's There's so much dynamic movement throughout this whole film and the camera work that they did and the way they edited together with all these tight spaces and the way the camera is always moving around, the way they always kept the action flowing was just so fucking awesome.

Speaker: Yeah, I agree. I think the editing and and special effects are really, really top-nashed. I think what helps the special effects a bit is the movies, it's very dark and like kind of one tone through a lot of it. Just that's the the choice they made. It's very desaturated and again, very dark because they are in this kind of,

Speaker: you know abandoned building basically so that it fits but yeah but the editing especially i mean these fight scenes are just insane and they're long and they're like you uh jonathan said there's so much camera movement where the camera will like spin around 180 like i was reading it they were like passing the camera to different people like while they were shooting so there's like so much going on that i guess we'll touch on when we get to direction but how they pieced all of this stuff together in a seamless way that really flows where you you get to see everything like you want to see is to me top-notch like I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to piece all of this together because there's probably so many different camera angles and takes on these scenes to get the right one so it really that a lot know some movies that editing doesn't really matter as much but I think a movie like this needed to have like really top-notch editing to really make it the movie it is so I i highly committed super tight yeah super exactly

Speaker: and And like you said, there's like, you know, adding in digitally all of these gun flashes, while it sounds simple enough, there's probably thousands of gun flashes in this movie. There's nonstop shooting. So it's to do all of that, I'm sure took a ton of time.

Speaker: Well, not not just to do all that. Well, yeah, it is part of it. But making sure that your gun flashes line up with the the actor's movement, the person who's pretending to be shot, you know, the getting it all timed precisely.

Speaker: be exhausting. It would take so much work that it is impressive. It's an impressive feat to edit this movie together the way that they did. And there's even one scene that I wanted to mention and kind of goes in direction, but also this, because it was like that AI filter where it keeps your face at the center of the screen, but it was the knife in Rama's hand. did Anybody, I think it was when they're in the facility where they're making the drugs.

Speaker: And he like stabs the guy six times, but the knife is always in the center of the shot. And it's just like, I was how, I was so impressed by just the camera movement, keeping that in time with his physicality or like the scene I love when they bust open the hole in the floor.

Speaker: and the camera just drops down through the hole as well. I was like, this is great transition to the next spot. It's excellent. Yeah, if you get the chance, I don't know how much exists on this movie, but there's a lot of behind the scenes for the raid too, and watching how they film these scenes is wild. It's it's really cool, and I i imagine they use similar techniques here, but I highly recommend going on YouTube and looking at some of the the clips as to how they they set these shots up and how they did the the scenes. It's really cool.

Speaker: Definitely. yeah jerry i thought I thought the editing was was great. ah Really not too much to add outside of like what you guys have already spoke about, but I thought the special effects was was fantastic too. I mean, it was – everything looked great. I mean, it was believable. ah you know – it It felt realistic. And I think that's that's the most important thing that if that passes, like, you know, the eye test and and how you feel like watching it where you're just like, ah, this is kind of bullshit. It's cool, but it's bullshit. But this felt real. You know, it felt like you were in a war film at times, like, you know. And um something I thought that they did really cool is like right in the beginning of of the film. And i don't know if this will go under direction or special effects, but I thought when they...

Speaker: shoot that young boy who's about to kind of call them out when they're just entered the building and that bullet is kind of traveling in slow motion and then we kind of like all sudden get like the pov of like the bullet and then we're to see like the other angle where it's like hitting the kid and it's all i mean it was it was just like one of the craziest things i've ever seen and i just thought it it works awesome and it looks fantastic so i thought that was a ah great effect that that that they pulled off Absolutely. ah

Speaker: i'll do it in the I'll do it in the direction later. But when it comes to editing and special effects, this is a movie I hate the trend lately with like Deadpool's terrible about it with like CGI blood.

Speaker: I hate the CGI blood. And this movie... It looked realistic. And I don't know... imagine there was quite a bit of blood capsules, but i imagine some of this was also CGI blood after the fact.

Speaker: But it so quick, edited so well, that I never once was like, ooh, that looked like... red kool-aid splash and crumb like it never had that ah never had that effect so yeah you know i just started me to cut you off and i think that's like a combination of it was very subtle the way they use blood it wasn't super over the top or it was splashing everywhere it just it was quick and it happened but also i think the the coloring of the movie the tone the darker kind of made it look more realistic versus like you said this bright red kool-aid that just like it just looks the same every time they use it and i think they And I also think they varied up the way they used it, so it didn't you weren't seeing the same exact splash every time, which I think made it look more, like you said, realistic.

Speaker: ah One of the most upsetting ones. One of the ones that made me a little bit like, don't want to say nauseous but i was like oh that that's rough is when that guy looks out the window and gets shot in through the visor and then leans forward and and just pours out the hole that that was that was a rough one uh i am a five on the editing and special effects for this film it's like it's flawless i agree i find also there's nothing to nothing to change about it it's perfect little deviation i give it a four still thought sorry it's tell you so out are you even a movie fan come on and i'm there five as well five five five five five five five all right all right the act oh no we're on script the script for this film it's about question before we start the script

Speaker: Like, are you considering fight choreography as part of the script? Like, it's not a written word, but it also is how they're telling the story. Well, I was going to that in acting.

Speaker: Yeah, I was going to put that in acting, the fight choreography. I was. But because to me, I think a script is like the actual dialogue that's spoken. is the way I tend to approach the script. So this is an interesting movie though, that it is so action heavy that wherever you wanted to put the action in your score, whether it was an editing direction, acting or scripts, you feel free to do that.

Speaker: Yeah. So when i when I looked at this originally, i was thinking in terms of like the written word, but thinking, thinking about it now, i do feel that that is, should be included. The choreography in my opinion, just because you know you're You're going to read what the actions are. Now, they're not outlining the entire fight in the script, I'm as sure, but I imagine they kind of spent a lot of time they talking about that. so I'm going to look at it that way. But anyway, sorry.

Speaker: Yeah, that's fine. That is fine. Why don't you go? Okay, Jerry. I was just gonna say, I think this script is either 200 pages or 20. I don't know what you mean. So the way I'm looking at it, it was 20. So that's just this kind of way I'm looking at it. I guess I'll just, I'll just start first since I'm talking here and have a big mouth and I screwed up the last rating anyway. So, um, You're about to get kicked off. So i'm i'm I'm trying not to give all the credit of of exactly what we see like to the script. So I kind of broke that out into different sections. I thought the script was probably pretty basic and um was probably fairly short. The dialogue was was fairly short, just enough to move the story along. um Obviously, you know, the action sequences, super, super important. Obviously, it's like it's like ninety ten I guess is how we could probably break up this film, like 90% action, 10% acting and and dialogue. So ah for me, the you know, the script was was just pretty basic, but I'm sure you guys are gonna change my mind in a little bit.

Speaker: Well, I did, because I was curious after you mentioned it, I Googled, and the internet consensus is that the script is between 30 and 40 pages long. See, I can actually just Googled it also and it told me Sony Pictures Classic says it's 69 pages. Really? Oh, okay. Which is still, you know, a low for a Hollywood movie, but a lot higher than i thought it would be.

Speaker: So who knows what it actually is? Well, my answer was AI, so it's probably incorrect. but It was whatever the Google AI said. Yeah. um from studio binder but either way it is i would consider that a fairly small script agreed but the the actual spoken dialogue in this movie is serviceable sometimes i feel when i'm watching a subtitled movie that there's something lost in the translation

Speaker: I did not feel that way with this film. I actually felt like everything, part of that is because it has a very basic story. It's very straightforward. It's not a whole lot of complexities to it. And I thought the script and the dialogue worked really well to further advance the story.

Speaker: I felt the connections between the brothers. I felt the tension when ah the drug lord is like, what if I told you there were three officers in the building? Like, it works.

Speaker: I don't think there's anything brilliant there, but it is it is very effective.

Speaker: Yeah, i'll I'll jump in and the same thing with story, right? There's nothing that's going to reinvent the wheel here. It's like you said, serviceable. It moves the plot along. I think there are some times in the movie where it's funny, like maybe unintentionally funny. And I thought that was pretty good writing. But overall, you know, it's good enough for what this movie is.

Speaker: um You know, the dialogue isn't cringy. It's not silly. It's just real. uh which which i think they did a really good job with so while i wouldn't score it like overly high it's it's good for what this movie is i would say so yeah i'm with you

Speaker: so with this script man like it seems kind of simplistic through most of it because it seems like your basic you know law and order dialogue you know good guys versus bad guys kind of stuff but there's There's a few moments here and there where it really has its high points.

Speaker: Like, especially when Mad Dog is fighting Jaka. They're in that one apartment unit. You know, Jaka, he's got the knife. Mad Dog's got the gun. But they're like, they put him down.

Speaker: And he's talking about how he likes it. Like how he's talking, how he likes it better. And that's one line. He's like, pulling a trigger is like ordering takeout. You know, I'm like, okay, fair enough, because he prefers it. This is the way he likes to get the hands-on approach.

Speaker: You know, so that was very impactful. And then you've got the part where the drug lord was, I think it was like Tama or something, when he's going on about, when he's talking to the old guy, Sergeant Wallyu, about who's connected and how they sent them to die. You know, you get those deep parts of dialogue in there when it comes to the story that kind of brings it out, that brings you out of just being flooded with action.

Speaker: You know, and that kind of really helps a lot. Yeah, I actually think that Mad Dog moment that you were describing is probably the script's highest point in the film. I would put that above even the brothers' conversation. The brothers' conversation is good, but Mad Dog's monologue that he gives in that scene about just preferring the hands-on approach to killing people is... That whole that whole scene...

Speaker: is chilling because you're at least i'm kind of rooting for you know the police in the situation like get out of there and just you establish in that moment that mad dog is a serious threat by killing off the sergeant one of the sergeants involved in the case and His monologue right before that is very effective and very good. So it also they helps that the performance is great. So i would ah I would agree that that scene is a highlight for me. But when it comes to the script overall, I'm a three. I just think it's good.

Speaker: I'm with you. Three also, if we're just looking at it based on spoken word and story. I'm going a little low. um Can't do halves here, so I'm just going to give it a two. Sorry, guys.

Speaker: you You can do halves. I can put in halves for you. You just can't do it. you You can't do it on the original card. I can add it later. No problem. That that that makes the math complicated. so i think I've had that. What are you saying?

Speaker: Oh, I was just going to say about a three on script. Okay, all right, so we're we're all pretty close right there. But the acting, so the acting for me is where I'm gonna put in those martial arts because it is a very physical role, all of these. And there are times that I feel like I'm watching an action movie and I'm watching the stunt guy deliver lines.

Speaker: And this movie avoids that. I never feel like they also aren't actors They are delivering the lines that they need to They're delivering them well. I'm seeing emotion. I'm reading the emotion on their faces. I'm also reading emotion in the body language that they're using throughout every scene. Like we mentioned, uh, Rama being just exhausted and he looked at, he delivered on that exhausted walk down the hallway.

Speaker: It was, i i was convinced. Um, the martial arts is insane i like i said i haven't seen many martial arts movies so i don't know what i could possibly compare it to but i wanted to watch more of our lead guy ah because apparently he's done quite a few movies i don't know if any of them are as good as this one but well the raid 2 so he's in that as well so i'll watch that one but just The demand on the body that these roles require is why I have to put it in the acting because it is physically insane.

Speaker: Some of the things that they're doing, there's no way I can move like that. but Yeah, so thinking thinking about that is definitely going bump up my score if I'm including the actual fighting as part of the acting. But I did score pretty high because not only are the main characters really good and really effective, I mean, the the main villain, even though he probably has five minutes of screen time, is chilling. That opening scene where he like just shoots four people in a row in the back of the head and then he like has to go do something, he just like puts the gun on the guy's shoulder and then goes against the hammer. like Really good. But not only are the the leads really good,

Speaker: every character, all the throwaway characters are really good. There might be someone whose only job it is to get their ass kicked and they're still giving 100% with their facial expressions and like the fear of the the throwaway swap team people that like you don't even know their names, but they're all really good. like Everybody's very believable. So it's like, which is wild to me when you have a movie that has like all these people that are like in non-speaking roles that are really delivering really solid performances like with what they had.

Speaker: And I also think they introduced like a lot of like characters that like may just be in it for like a couple of minutes. And like, but they had a really like good presence on screen where they felt a little unique.

Speaker: So yeah, I thought the acting was really stellar, especially for a movie like this. ah You know, you watch again a lot of these movies and like these John Wick movies or like a, you know, Stallone movie. And you have all these bad guys. and It's like a hundred different interchangeable guys. And like, but in this, the interchangeable people all do a really good job.

Speaker: Yeah. Like you mentioned the kind of side characters that are in there briefly, like the guy who's just wants to stay out of everything and take care of his sick wife, not a ton of screen time, but I feel for him. He's very effective in his couple minutes of screen time.

Speaker: Heck yeah. So when you're talking about these throwaway characters, you know, all these guys getting their, their, their asses beat the, the amount of action, reaction, annoying, way to go about it is insanely awesome.

Speaker: And then you've got, like I said earlier, you got the one guy that Rama throws across the inner hallway, breaking his back on the railway, killing him. You've got the four guys that come up after him in that epic hallway scene. And one of them, it seems like one of them is the brother of that guy. Cause you see him seeing the guy there in like kind of getting that look of what the fuck, holy shit, he's dead. Oh my God. And going into that rage, coming after him and being the first guy to approach him in the hallway when they catch up with him You know, even his whole reaction trying to seem like he's trying to get revenge for his fallen brother or friend, whoever was, was just amazingly spot on and very intense.

Speaker: You know, gotta love shit like that, man. It's so good. Yeah, I thought the acting was phenomenal as as well. I mean, i basically watched like the dub version. So, you know, delivering the dialogue, I'm not really going to get that there. So really, I'm looking at these people like emoting and playing their roles. And honestly, it's believable, you know, just, you know, they they created tension, they create fear, they created, you know, anxiety, you know, exhaustion, everything just by their movements and by the way, you know, they they kind of acted, you know, the the acting was great. So um think about like one scene.

Speaker: i think we mentioned it earlier where or they're hiding like kind of behind the walls. and the machete gang is, like, stabbing the machetes through the wall. I mean, you could just... You could feel it, you know? you you could feel, like, every single person in that room. One, you could feel the guy that just wants to help his wife, because he knows that if those people get found, he's screwed, you know? He's he's he's in big trouble. And then you see the guys behind the wall, and and they're terrified, because, I mean, they're they're literally, like, in, like, an agent spot, just kind of stuffed back there. And, i mean, it was... they created tension and I mean, i would i have to hand that to to the great acting. So ah great job on that.

Speaker: That is one of the most tense scenes that i that comes to mind in recent movies that I've seen. I can't think of a scene that is more intense than that. ah The other thing, when Mad Dog is taking on the two brothers in the big climactic fight scene,

Speaker: Mad Dog won that fight. Like, I know he lost. I know he lost. us But if that if that had gone to ah the judges, if the timer had ran out and we had not gotten to that, Mad Dog won that fight. I'm watching that and it was like nail biting is the best word for it.

Speaker: By that point, Like I said earlier with the story, we get a lot thrown at us at once, and by the time we get to that scene, we are very honed in on these characters. And so that scene had my heart rate through the roof, and I'm expecting one of them to die at least. You know, one brother's not going to make it out, but that scene is fantastic.

Speaker: gonna say the acting was so good watching this film every single time i watch it two things happen i feel tired and i feel lazy and i'm like yeah i need to do more you know it's like where's my treadmill i need to do something you know and that's them you know like you could feel it you could feel like they're at their limits of of like physical exhaustion and they have to keep going they have to survive and You know, how do you portray that? You know, just their movement, their body movement, their eyes, their facial expressions. Fantastic.

Speaker: Excellent. Yep. They carried it for the film. So I actually, i think my acting seems high, but it's because I am like martial arts is like a dance. It is part of the role. It is part of the delivery of who your character is. And so I have to take that in into account for this.

Speaker: And i'm I'm a five because the performances are just amazing. Yeah. You know what I gave it a four originally, but if I think about the, the fighting as part of the acting, then it has to be a five because there there's the fight scenes are just amazing and intense and like everything everyone does. You're right. It's acting if even shooting a gun is acting right.

Speaker: So, and that's really effective. So I would bump that up to a five for sure. Hell yeah. I also have a huge appreciation for Sergeant Wallyu at the end after he pops off the drug lord.

Speaker: And then he goes to try and to off himself because he knows he's fucked. And that stark realization once the gun goes click and nothing happens and he knows he's totally fucked. God, I just, I reveled in in that a little bit. I found some some awesome joy in that.

Speaker: So yeah, acting's definitely a five for me all right man i'm screwing it up giving it a four i know i mean if the dialogue was just a you know ah it it could have been stretched a little bit more to a five so i have to at the reserve a little bit you know so um All these guys are better actors than Keanu Reeves. i just want to say that. that's good yeah Absolutely. Even like the the most basic guy that comes on the screen and go, what? And just gets shot. I thought that they portrayed emotion and delivered their lines probably better than he could. But ah again, you know, being that just that that one element of, you know, of of the dialogue was kind of missing for me. That's that's why I gave it a four.

Speaker: Yeah, I would have to agree. I don't watch John Wick because Keanu is a good actor. That's for sure. I have been known. ah We did an episode, ah this was before Jonathan joined, of John Wick 4. And that was that was definitely one of the highlights of talking about the acting of Keanu Reeves in those movies. Yeah, you need to get a better. 40 words of dialogue in that whole movie. It's like something ridiculous. Like he barely speaks in it.

Speaker: But again, I did score higher because his physical performance and that and him doing his stunts and stuff. That's impressive. I give him credit for that. So onto the direction. This is one. So right off.

Speaker: I'll go ahead and kick it off. um i I agree. I think, Rich, earlier you were saying putting this together from the director's ah skill point is fantastic, like just amazing.

Speaker: I hated the color grading and just how gray and bland everything looks and part of me is like okay cool I do get like it is a like drug condo run down not the fanciest place it could be it's but I still wanted I want some more color to it. I don't want the gray washed out walls. We can have a yellow wall. that That's okay. We can have some color. So that's, I do have one complaint about that. It's the color. I think the grittiness does help the, like you mentioned the special effects. I think the grittiness of it does help that. But I also, I watched the 4k version and I was like, why

Speaker: it It looks exactly like the DVD version. You know, i it's it wasn't that much of an upscaling of anything. So that's that's being super critical. And it's just I know the director went for that visual style.

Speaker: I myself prefer the John Wick visual style, the nice neon-ish lighting, and I love that. I think that is beautiful to look at, as well as a thrilling story. So I know it's kind of comparing apples to oranges on two very different takes on the action genre. It's just I didn't care as much for the...

Speaker: gritty approach to this one even though it does fit the story i'm just like it's not my favorite thing to look at if that makes sense i'm gonna totally agree with you there and if there was like one thing i there's one i change about the movie is the the coloring of it it is gray and dark but I will say that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the film at all. And I kind of can understand why they went that way. I think they went a little bit too far with it. And I'd probably put that as part of like the editing, the color grading part of it. But um yeah, I would agree. I would i like it better if if the movie was a little brighter or or more of like a sort other kind of tone. Yeah, but again, like you're in this slum building that's supposed to look like really shitty.

Speaker: You know, the the SWAT team uniforms are all dark, like people are wearing like t-shirts and jeans and all dirty and stuff like that. So I kind of give them like a pass for for that. And I think maybe they want to hide some of the the blood and the effects and things like that. And that's how you do it is by like desaturating the whole thing.

Speaker: um so i agree with you there i wish it was a different i wish it looked different but i would say the direction stellar like how they captured and maybe it goes into cinematography too but like how they captured these fight scenes again with thinking about how you do like a 180 camera thing and light it at the same time you know they're moving lights as they're shooting and they're doing all of this different stuff and like a lot of this like This choreography is so extensive and and just to like get it, I'm sure they like piece together little bits of it because there's almost so many times they could do these fights. You're going to be exhausted. And like, so to me, like directing a movie like this is insanely ambitious.

Speaker: And I think they pulled it off. they They pulled off a lot with not a ton of money and time to do something like this. I think it helped shooting it in Indonesia, like cut costs down dramatically because think they did shoot a lot of abandoned buildings and were able to kind of rebuild walls and shit like that to make the rooms fit. But again, in my opinion, again, the Raid and the Raid 2, best action movies ever.

Speaker: I'd give this director director like top top scores on this, because like he did something very special to me.

Speaker: Yeah, I thought the direction was was great as well. And Tim, i'm going to disagree with you a little bit, because this actually fits my mood. You know what saying? Like one of my biggest notes is like it's great atmosphere. It's dark. It's stormy. It's set in a trap house. it's It's dull. It's gloomy. And you feel that way. And it kind of sets the tone for you to walk into this building and exactly how everyone must have been feeling. when they were kind of entering that building. So to me, I think like the coloring kind of sets the tone to it. And also, like Rich, I'm going kind of mix in the cinematography a bit you know with the direction. i think you know just like all the obscure angles and the way they captured a lot of the action was incredible, but also probably how they hid a lot of mistakes by using that, I think helps it so much. And most importantly,

Speaker: the pacing of this film, I think is right. It's right. You know, it never really falls off. And I think when it slows, all they do in those slow moments is they pick up the tension. And I think that's great direction, um you know, because right have to usually when when a film kind of like drops down, you're just like, here we go, you know, you know just it just seizes, goes to a crawl. But they used that and they used it wisely. You know, they they actually built something with it. They built dread and and tension. And i I thought that was great. And then 30 seconds later, boom, you're right back into that action. So I thought that was that was awesome direction.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. So for me, that once I do usually put the cinematography and direction in the same category. So but both of you guys mentioned that. Yes. Yes. Because that is one to me that I think the director works very closely with the cinematographer usually to make sure they're getting what they want. So I usually I should just put that in the official sheet. You should. Direction. snap your but no kid Man dropping the ball. Jonathan, what do you think of direction?

Speaker: thats doing the best I can here guys come on it's all good Tim no worries brother um so normally this is a really hard topic for me to discuss because i just I just not really good at it but with this movie I find a little bit of inspiration here so when we're talking about that scene earlier where the two cops Rama and his buddy are hiding in the wall and that one guy in his wife's apartment the way they use the angles of the wall when they're hiding in there and how it kind of bows out and and like the guy and his wife hoping the fuck all that the the gang dudes don't see that shit and notice it, even though the guy's like just still checking and still stabbing through the wall.

Speaker: that sent me um The amount of tension that creates is so awesome. And even when they first get into the building and then looking up into that inner courtyard and seeing how many floors there are and how much of a a challenge this is going to be for them kind of really sets a tone before they really get into the action.

Speaker: And then later on and then seeing from the from from the higher floors looking down into that. seeing how far they've gotten, and how much further they still have to go and hoping that, holy shit, i hope we can still get out of this.

Speaker: I think it's amazing. I think they really did a good job with that part with the way they used angles to to kind of convey a lot of different stuff in this. You reminded me of one of my favorite scenes that I thought was super cool is when they are hiding in that little square central corridor and they hear somebody coming up behind a door and it cracks ever so slightly and the guy fires a shotgun. But then all of the henchmen on the floor above see their silhouettes in the light.

Speaker: I thought that was brilliant because that is a moment where it's gritty and dark and you can't see anything and it's conveying that to the viewer. through the style choices and then to have that light flash and show that I was like, oh shit. And then they all die. But is I thought that was brilliant. So you guys did convince me. I'm going to come up to a four and a half just because I didn't put the color grading and editing. So I have to take off a little bit for it here. Oh my goodness. It makes sense. I've given it again a five. I just think it's again, the movie for what it is, is is fairly perfect. And while I agree with you on on the coloring, like that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the movie at all. Do I wish it was a little different? Yeah, but it doesn't make the movie better or worse for me.

Speaker: Is the second one similar? Is it lit differently? Yes. There are parts where it's a little darker, but for the most part, it's a lot brighter. Yeah. Okay. It's more spread out a lot of different locations, so there's a lot of different environments. there's going to be a lot of different lighting in that one. So they had a lot more to work with and explore in the second one.

Speaker: And there's a lot of outdoor stuff, too, so there's there's a little bit. Yeah, it's it's it's a movie that's very different. I'll be renting it. There's another movie, too, that I thought that the actor plays Rama is in. It's called The Night Comes for Us, which is very similar these movies. It's really good. It's very similar.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I was actually going to mention that next when we get to It Factor, but that's awesome that you mentioned that, Rich. And I'm so shocked that you gave it a five. I didn't know. This is so weird, Tim. When you gave us the list of films that we could maybe jump on an episode, I was like, Rich, you want to the raid? And he's like, yeah. He was so nonchalant about it. I didn't know there was going to be so many fucking five. I'm nonchalant about everything. You know what it was the last time I came out, we did My Bloody Valentine, which I hated, and I was the only one who hated it, so I was scared to come back on.

Speaker: All right. Well, I'm glad we picked one that you like because I really like my bloody Valentine. So I'm going to give direction for this four again. it was It was very, very, very good. Obviously, I feel like I've seen some better direction in my life. So I can't give it a five. But I mean, four is excellent, though. So I think they did a good job.

Speaker: For me, when it comes to martial arts films, i think direction in this is an absolute five. Awesome. Yeah. And I felt the same way about caveat on your show. I came in. felt like I didn't. There's a limited number of Irish horror films. The main reason I haven't made it to see Hocum in theaters yet is because I hated Caveat. Same, same. I don't care how many people tell me it's good. I didn't like Caveat. I didn't like his other movie, oddity Oddity. I thought Oddity was fantastic. I'm just gonna put that out there. I like it.

Speaker: I'll see Hocum when it streams. When I think about direction, I think about like could I have directed this movie? and The answer is, hell, no, I cannot. and If that's the answer, then it's a five for me. fair enough honest i like that i like that all right so this leads us to the it factor our our final score out of five the effect of the cultural significance of this film so bill yes okay i'll go first because i'm not a martial arts fan i don't know a lot of these movies but i have heard of this movie i was aware of this movie

Speaker: honestly the main reason I hadn't watched it is because I hate the poster I hate the cover the the poster's not good yeah know it is terrible and so I never watched this movie but what can we flash that up on the screen I don't know okay yeah I'll get it different versions there's a few different versions of the but the one the one that was in social media for this episode I think it's terrible Oh, all right. i think I think it's pretty bad. I'll find it while Jonathan talks about... It doesn't tell you what the movie is. like it's It's boring. yeah yeah It made me think of the...

Speaker: the What was the purge election year? The purge election year where it's like in the government housing building and the police are sent in for that one. Like that, it it gave me that vibes. And I was like, I didn't like that movie either. So that is the number one reason why I hadn't watched this movie. But like I said, I was aware of it. So that's my, that's my cultural significance and it factor.

Speaker: I will find... but I don't run in martial arts circuits, so I don't know much about it. That's okay. Yeah, so for me, I think the movie's very culturally significant in the fact that it was one of the main influences for John Webb.

Speaker: And that is one of the biggest action franchises, at least in our our generation, right? Huge spawns, all kinds of sequels and TV shows and stuff like that. So because it it inspired that, at least that's what the internet tells me. And it makes sense. look you know like the act The way it's directed is is somewhat similar.

Speaker: um So that makes it culturally significant. However, you know, it's an Indonesian movie, right? And while you have heard of it, a lot of people have never heard of it or have never watched it for various reasons.

Speaker: So it's not something that a lot of people talk about people i think people that know know this movie right people that are into this kind of stuff know this movie but i would imagine a large percentage of our population has either never heard of it or has like no interest in seeing it so while i think it's culturally significant in that it did inspire such a big franchise and you know i think even like um the guy that plays mad dog has gone on to do mainstream hollywood movies if he was in like a mortal combat movie and you see him in a bunch of stuff um it's you know it's not like the most culturally significant thing of, you know, in the past, like 10 years or 15 years has came out in 2011. And there's the poster.

Speaker: Oh, okay. I think it's awful. that That is not the cover of, of my Blu-ray, but I see. Yeah. I definitely see what you're saying. So I want to hear Jonathan has to say about this before I go. It's So when it comes to martial arts films, usually a lot of what we've seen over the past few decades um is usually based on like karate, taekwondo.

Speaker: You know, those are like the primary martial arts that you're going to see in a lot of films over the years. But over like the past like 15, 20 years, they've started to really expand and give more exposure to more different types of martial arts. You know, like with the Ongbok film series that really brought more exposure to Thai kickboxing.

Speaker: Isn't that next? I believe so, yes. We're we're doing Hone Bach next. Yeah, that's also another one of my big favorite films love that we're gonna go over. I know, right? God, there's like I think they're doing a fourth film on that one actually coming up soon. Now that Tony Jaa is recovered from cancer and everything. That's amazing. for him. And I love Elephant, so that that movie was very... Oh, Protector was yeah insanely awesome. Yeah.

Speaker: But when it comes to exposure for more martial arts, you know, bringing about Pensox a lot to the forefront as far as Indonesian martial arts, you know, it has had a major impact on the industry because usually it's a lot of like, you know, Chinese films, Hong Kong stuff. But now that we're bringing Indonesian martial arts into the forefront and having even spawned, you know, the raid too, which is even more elaborate and even more exciting and so much amazing choreography.

Speaker: And then we've got films coming up soon. That's going to be released, I believe this year called the furious. Oh, that looks good. to have The trailer on that is insanely amazing. And there's going to be so much awesome in and mad dog. Yayan Ruihan. He's a starring in that film.

Speaker: So like said, getting a lot of these Indonesian martial arts and stunt people into the industry and give them more exposure is massively huge. um And it's it's creating more opportunity and it's really expanding what's possible for different forms of martial arts and what they can do. Because a lot of these dudes in stunt work, you know, used to be, you see like Jackie Chan and a lot of the people from made these 90s films and like seeing those back end of like the martial art, like the stunt work that they do. But then seeing what these guys are doing when you get like all the back end documentary stuff about what they do, man, it's so intense and it's so elaborate, so involved, so much potential for injury and pain. And yet they still persevere through it all.

Speaker: is just fantastic, man. You gotta love it and you gotta appreciate it. And getting people more interested in different types of martial arts also really helps the culture as well.

Speaker: Yeah, love nothing that. I'm not a man. Yeah, for me, I think this was big for like an Indonesian film and it really kind of like, just like Jonathan said, it brought Salat to like, you know, the Western world and honestly got me very interested in in films like this and seeing different types of like fighting styles on film. You get very used to seeing things that, you know,

Speaker: something like kung fu or something like that, like back in the 80s, you know, it wasn't as violent, wasn't as graphic. And then you see like these different types of fighting styles, when we tie and stuff like that. I mean, it just it just brings like a new level of brutality. And for me, i I think that was great for like basically, you know, Americans to see that. And also the inspiration, because now like when you see a film like like John Wick, they're mixing so many different martial arts styles in in there you know it's not just one it's not just two they're using like five or six uh on on top of you know adding like you know the gunplay i mean it's just mixing all these styles together this was probably the first film to like probably do that i'm not sure i can't like don't quote me on that uh i hope the chat don't beat me up too much but i think it was probably one of the the bigger ones that did it and and i thought that was cool and definitely inspired like you know john wick headshot night comes for us i mean there's there's definitely a few films that are ah very similar to this and i watched them all because i like this film so much so for the it factor for me was pretty high i don't know how it was for the world but for me it was pretty good ah well for me it was a three so yeah i give it a four just for again what what everybody kind of said before and also the fact that like this like i only think i've seen one other indonesian movie and it was like a horror movie so just the fact that we're here talking about

Speaker: you know, a movie from from a country is not known for producing a ton of mainstream stuff. I think it's pretty significant. So yeah, I give it a four. I'm giving it a four as well.

Speaker: Those very good. Thought I put up, you know, again, it's a lot put it out there. Oh, yeah, I'm a four as well on it factor. All right, so our final category, how much did you enjoy the film out of 10 in your final thoughts about the movie itself? So take it away.

Speaker: I'll go first, I guess. I was super entertained. um I think for me, this is almost like an easy watch. This is like ah like a mindless watch, um but also high entertainment.

Speaker: um You could just put this on and you could just watch it. you know It never never fails to deliver. It's it's always exciting. um Just by talking to you three tonight made me realize I probably do have to watch this film three or four more times because the time it took me to look down and write my note for three seconds already missed the next cool thing so there's there's just so much to absorb and don't know don't know a lot of films like that and and one thing i want to say that's that's very important and and me and rich talk about this all the time um it's it's whether it's like horror fatigue or action fatigue There are times where things go too long and you're just like, all right, enough of this. This this needs to stop. And I think this film struck a really good balance of not letting that happen because you mentioned like johnwick four ah John Wick John Wick 3 is super, super guilty of this. um Really, really long action scenes. And you're like, this is exciting. Look what they're doing. No, it gets boring. You know, you're looking at the same thing. Oh, another guy blew through a window. Another guy is, you know, got kicked in the head. Another guy got shot. It does get boring. You you do kind of log off. I think this film keeps you engaged. How they do it, I don't know, but I know I can't take my eyes off the screen. So for me, you know, if it if it's raining outside you just want to like, you know, put something on, this is the film to watch. It'll get you hyped up and I don't know, maybe jump on that sh treadmill like I'm thinking about it. entertainment for me do we do we give the score right away yeah you can go ahead yeah i'm i'm giving it at eight i think i think this is great yeah i agree with a lot of what you said there jerry especially yeah those later john wick movies start getting boring because the actions goes on too long but this is a really good balance which is crazy because i don't i think there was like 100 minutes and probably 90 of it are action but it but it doesn't let up it it keeps you entertained and like

Speaker: I watched this movie two days ago to to be ready for this podcast. And i now we're talking about i want to watch it again. Like um I might put it on tonight like because i there's so much cool shit that happens in it. And the fights are so awesome. And there's so much emotion that it's the movie is highly entertaining for me.

Speaker: I ended up giving it and it and like I said earlier at the beginning, it redefined action movies for me. Like it's tough to watch anything after this because. the way they did it, the level of brutality and violence and the way it's choreographed, like it's tough to compare to that. I gave it a nine. The only reason I didn't give it a 10 is because the sequel is better.

Speaker: This one, you know, it's funny that the sequel is better. This one might be a little more entertaining because it's easier to watch. It's like quicker. but you know, it's it's I can't I can't compare to that second movie. So I give it a nine. All right, Jonathan, I'll let you close this out because have a feeling you love this movie.

Speaker: ah I this is my first watch. You know, most of this month is Jonathan's picks, so i think all of them are new new watches for me. So if the rest of them are as good as this one, it's going to be a good month because.

Speaker: I'll be honest, I did not want to watch this movie. I watched it Monday night and I did not want to watch this this movie just because I was exhausted and i was like, I got I got to get this watching. And By the last 45 minutes, i my heart's racing, I'm on the edge of my seat, I'm wholly engrossed in what's happening on the screen and loving in every minute of it. And now I will say, probably because I was ridiculously tired on Monday night, i'm go we had a hell of a weekend, but that's a whole other story. um

Speaker: I'm going into this and it's like, it so every i felt every one of those 100 minutes my first watch. i was like, because there is so much happening. Like it does feel long on your very first watch. My second watch felt like I watched the whole thing in 20 minutes.

Speaker: It moves so fast, so fast. So I appreciate that. i I had a great time watching this movie. I will be trying to track down the physical copy because this, like I said, I enjoyed John Wick movies, but the action in this one puts those to shame. It's like child's play in those movies. So I love this.

Speaker: I love this. I'm a nine.

Speaker: Hell yes. So fun fact before I give my score, ah Mad Dog Yaya Ruhan, he was in John Wick Chapter 3. He had an appearance in there. So if you go back, watch it, you'll see his face in there at some point. He also played in Star Wars Episode 7, Force Awakens.

Speaker: um And he's like, so he's going to be in The Furious, which comes out next month. So make sure you check that out. um So many awesome movies, especially with Iko Uwais.

Speaker: So check out his catalog of stuff. He's got some amazing things. And in the interest of martial arts films, sadly, ah just passed away. Donald Gibb, who played Ray Jackson in Bloodsport and was also Ogre in Revenge of the Nerds. Rest in peace, Donald Gibb.

Speaker: He was awesome in Bloodsport. So major tribute to him for his play in action and martial arts films. But overall, if you like action films if you like film fight films if you want to get into that stuff if you're not sure about it this is a great film to watch to get you really started on that path um and Tim definitely watch raid 2 because it will blow your fucking mind it is I already I'm gonna rent it this weekend if I have time for sure you do it do it do it but overall surprise surprise I'm a 10 oh my god

Speaker: And that's pretty much all I can say on that. am not surprised. Highly entertained. I am not surprised you're a 10. I can't find my calculator to do the average, so going use my phone. I have a normal little like. What's a calculator? Yeah, I have a normal like Casio calculator because I use it for my job. So it's normally sitting right here. I don't know what did with it. Yeah, remember back in school when the teacher said that you'll never have a calculator with you. now we have cell phones with calculators on them. So I remember we had those kids with like the calculator watches. And now the little Casio watch. Yeah, the Casio calculator watch. And now I have an Apple watch with a calculator on it. So same thing. Sure. Yeah. Wrong teacher. I do have a calculator on my wrist.

Speaker: Motherfucker. okay so what is your final score out of 50 and i will get the average for that and we will see where this movie lands all right i'm 45. you see the message happen okay jerry's a 37. sorry i'm adding oh i've got i messaged you it's a you want me to spoil it it's a 42.

Speaker: Okay, thank you for the spoilers. I already fucked up putting it in my calculator. Is that a four or a three? It's like 68, what the fuck? And was a 39. let me see. Divide that by Gets us 40.75 four stars out of five for the film. I think for... and i was a thirty nine nine so let me see

Speaker: find that by four gets us a forty point seven five or four stars out of five for the film i think for a film as action heavy as this one it's pretty darn accurate it's a good good action movie i will never get my wife to sit through this movie it's not gonna happen not gonna happen but if the guys are hanging out it's gonna be a good time so for sure yes for sure so rich jerry thank you for coming out and joining us on this one glad it was a better time than ah my bloody valentine That was fun too. I liked arguing. That was those good conversation. yeah But you guys plug yourselves one more time where people can find you.

Speaker: yeah you could check us out we release episodes every tuesday it is the horror heads podcast you can find it anywhere pockets are available spotify apple amazon you could also watch a video on youtube uh we encourage everybody to check us out subscribe um we do do a bit of drinking so feel free to drink along with us at home and play some games with us we have lots of really exciting guests coming up uh it's gonna be yeah the the you should check us out Please do. You guys have been pumping out some great stuff lately. So love it. Thank you guys.

Speaker: Jonathan, that all we have? That should do it, sir. So I do believe in two weeks we are back with... Which which one was it?

Speaker: Ongbok. Yeah, is that the one? Okay, Ongbok. And I think we have Surge. who hung out with us on a drug broadcast. He's coming to join us for that one. So I'll have to confirm that for sure. But we'll be back in two weeks with that film, continuing the Marshall Marts May.

Speaker: Thank you all for hanging out with us and we will see you later.

Speaker: you