Transcript
Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Welcome back to Casual and Nerdity, everybody. hope everyone is doing well. Nick, how are you doing? Oh, and I'm Daryl, by the way. as You're Daryl.
Speaker: I'm Nick. And yes, I'm doing well. It's just the two of us this time around again, because... Just the two of us. We are the ones who have a lot to say about lanterns.
Speaker: The recently concluded HBO series in the DCU based on Green Lantern. Yes, and it's it's been a it's been a wild ride of discourse and discussing theorycrafting.
Speaker: and i mean, we had our own theorycrafting. Most of which turned out to be completely worthless. But that's it's kind of the fun of theorycrafting. Yeah.
Speaker: Again, I always say this about theorycrafting. If you're too deep into it, then you're going to disappoint yourself. Yeah. Always have that moment of like, but I could be wrong.
Speaker: Yep, it it it's like Dennis Miller's old sign-off. That's just my opinion. i could be wrong. Mm-hmm. Again, i I feel that that is not the major reason why I know a lot of people turned off to the sequel trilogy, but a lot of them invested so hard into certain theories in the Star Wars sequel trilogy, and when they didn't go that way, they felt betrayed. was like,
Speaker: but you what we One of these days we need to do that episode. Yeah. We really need to do that episode one of these days. But that's not what we're talking about today. We are talking about lanterns. We are talking about the whole season. ah So just this is your spoiler warning. Spoilers.
Speaker: Because we're going to be talking about the whole series. We're not going to be doing a chronological granular recapping and deep dive. We're just going to be going on...
Speaker: the vibes and the, the moments that really caught us, the, the aspects and themes that really caught us full disclosure. I had every intention of doing a rewatch before we recorded this show, but life sort of lifed.
Speaker: Oh, the, the, the life entity got in the way. Yes. So, um you know, But we recommend heavily take a, I think without spoilers, i say if you have a chance to watch it, watch it.
Speaker: Yeah. um If you haven't watched it and you want to watch it and don't want to be spoiled, while we hate to turn listeners away, don't listen to this episode until you watch it.
Speaker: And there are plenty of ways to do so. Well, there's only like a couple of legal ways to do so. And, you know, we're not wild about the whole Skydance merger.
Speaker: Nope. But we we are also not advocates, formally, of sailing the digital seas. But life finds a way.
Speaker: So, what do you say we start talking about some lanterns? People have had about five minutes to go ahead and say, oh, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait I don't want spoilers. ah I think you have a perfectly good clip to make sure that they don't understand completely.
Speaker: I already... Spoilers. i already I already did that. ah I think to need a double reminder. good So, lanterns.
Speaker: when it when it was announced, there we won't go into into all of the the unnecessary drama that occurred during all of this, but this is the culmination of a long series of evolutions of an HBO Green Lantern series.
Speaker: Yes, and there's been there has been some leaks online of like concept art, which... I will have to remind people, it's like, concept art can be anything.
Speaker: that's ah That's not a script. That's a show. Well, and there was a at least one previous iteration that had gotten at least to the casting stage. Yes.
Speaker: And it was going to be a multi-generational Green Lantern show. And this was kind of a multi-generational Green Lantern show. But it was going to be a more traditional and it was going to have...
Speaker: yes, Hal Jordan, and it was going to have Jon Stewart, and it was going to have Guy Gardner, but it was also going to have Alan Scott and Kyle Rayner. It was going to be more cosmic in scale, ah and ultimately, once the new DCU started, they decided to go with a a more ah grounded, high-concept approach that they called you True Detective meets Green Planet.
Speaker: And Just outside of the wheelhouse, I will always say, like, the minute I heard True Detective Green Lantern, I was hooked. because Not just because I love True Detective, but the concept of bringing back Green Lantern to the sort of space cop dynamic, sort of training day dynamic, is interesting.
Speaker: And ah one of the pieces of discourse that we will talk about is that people were upset that it was not going to be space-based.
Speaker: And what they seem to forget is, well, yeah, once the Hal Jordan version of green lanardn's Green Lantern was introduced... there There was a fair amount of science fiction, space travel, other planet stories, but most of it, for the first decade or so at least, was pretty firmly rooted on Earth.
Speaker: It was very terra firma-based, and yes, he was part of intergalactic space cops, but he wasn't doing... in his He was patrolling...
Speaker: Less space sector 2416. 2418. Or 2814. 2814, but Earth he was just erf guy.
Speaker: Yeah, because the whole space cop organization was just the trappy Silver Age trappings for him to be a superhero.
Speaker: That wasn't, like, him becoming, like, mostly a space guy was, like, like a midpoint in his career. It became more of a thing a little later on, and a year recently... yeah And after we had a major story arc where he was boots on the ground with Green Arrow, the hard-traveling heroes arc that made him more grounded, and then he went into space.
Speaker: And more of our longer periods i might I might argue that more recent Green Lantern series, ever since, spoiler alert for 20, 30-year-old comics, ever since Hal went evil, died, and came back, it almost exclusively has gone space. it's the The pendulum has shifted too far maybe in the other direction?
Speaker: to the To a certain degree, depending on what your flavor is. and i Personally, I like a nice healthy mix because, yeah, he's a space cop, but he's also an Earth superhero.
Speaker: But I do feel like something that, especially this series, captures on this, like, he isn't our only Green Lantern, so we can divvy up the space cop and the Earth based stuff now going into the show despite knowing a lot about the characters in the comics i was trying to ignore as much of that as i could because this is telling its own thing
Speaker: And i was trying to avoid the... i was trying to avoid the, oh look, they're they're leading up to this comic thing happening.
Speaker: Because it was pretty clear, especially from the first episode, that wasn't what they were going going for. Yeah. I mean... And so I tried to consciously prevent myself from... I believe that this series itself...
Speaker: is leading into larger, bigger stuff. But I never thought that it was going to be like, this is the explicit key. Like the whole series was meant to be like, oh, this whole series is one big key.
Speaker: It's like, no, this is a story setting up maybe a couple keys. Yeah, it's like what one of the things that I had to keep you beating out of my brain.
Speaker: is after the second episode when without a ring and even yeah the ring that created it, when John created the bird, he had the ring on when he created you He had the ring on when he created it. Then Hal took the ring back and the bird persisted.
Speaker: Hal depleted the charge of the ring. The bird persisted. And John was a thousand miles away. And the bird persisted.
Speaker: John was unconscious. And the bird persisted. And i had to I had to force myself to say they are not...
Speaker: going down the Green Lantern mosaic route where John became a guardian and hey basically a Green Lantern guardian God.
Speaker: It's like, they're not doing this. They're not going to do this in the, if they ever touch on it in this iteration of the movie TV franchise, it's not going to be in his introductory storyline.
Speaker: Especially like this. It's it's so abstract. And, you pragmatically, i know that they're never, ever, ever going to touch on any of the concepts from Mosaic because they, rightfully so, do not want to give...
Speaker: the writer of that comic who I shall not name royalties because of the horrible horrible horrible person that he is yeah if they were going to ever do any sort of acknowledgement of that they're just going to tie it back into eye on the ah on the the willpower entity yeah so though though yeah I guess I think they've already retconned that like all right're like that was the real power the mosaic stuff so they could never talk about that again But what's what's the first element of the show that you want to talk about, Nick? We're doing this freeform since I didn't get my my rewatch in.
Speaker: Kyle Chandler, Hal Jordan. Kyle Chandler was a perfect older Hal Jordan.
Speaker: And the first thing that I thought of when they when they were casting him and said that they were casting an older Hal Jordan, who's been around for a while, is the beginning of the, what was it? The late, very late 80s, early 90s Green Lantern series when they very first gave him the Grey Temples.
Speaker: Yeah. That was right before before Emerald Twilight. yeah well It was a few years before, but yeah. It it turns out continuity-wise, I mean...
Speaker: Yeah. and And so that that was the first thing that I thought of. And I was like, okay, okay, I can see this, especially with the dynamic that they're going for. And then once we saw Superman last year and I saw the kind of timeline that they were establishing for superheroes in this universe, I was like, okay, I can see that. he Most of the big names will have been around before Superman.
Speaker: And that's perfectly fine. That's like, yeah, honestly better because I always like that Superman is meant to be the exemplar. i usually prefer that instead of like the originator.
Speaker: That the age of superheroes isn't Superman, but Superman is the exemplar and meant to be like the guiding beacon.
Speaker: Yeah, and yeah it was kind of funny. Last night, as we're recording this, um Godzilla vs. Kong happened to be on one of the cable channels.
Speaker: And I forgot Kyle Chandler was in it. And I saw you one of the early scenes where Millie Bobby Brown is you know trying to prevail upon him to go do whatever, but he's got all these duties with Monarch. And i was like,
Speaker: dude, just put on your ring and yeah go take care of Godzilla, man. The irony is that there's an official Monsterverse DC crossover where Kong gets sick gets Guy Gardner's ring.
Speaker: does that seem right? ah That and it seems right. It's like, yeah, I was like, it was weird that Guy Gardner went out the Guy Gardner way and in the most absurd, like, badass moment.
Speaker: But of course, his ring then went right on the Kong, and he's kicking ass with Hal Jordan. yeah i I need to actually read that one of these days.
Speaker: it's It's stupid fun. mean, like, for both of the franchises, it's just like, action figures fighting each other but that's the fun of it that is exactly the fun of it but yeah I really really liked Kyle Chandler's portrayal of an older Hal because he has the energy like well one of the things that really of Hal Jordan is that he is kind of a prick
Speaker: Kind of arrogant. Well, one of the things that I liked about Chandler's performance was that ah from with just episode one, yeah think, okay, he's an asshole.
Speaker: And that's really all there is to him. And as both the episode and the series go along, they they very organically reveal to you that there are more layers to him than just that. Yes, that is the surface level read of him. And yes, that is kind of his core personality. And you kind of find out why.
Speaker: But there is so much more to him. Like in episode three, where you get the extended flashback, Jon Stewart origin story. Yeah. At the end of it, you're like, oh, oh, I i don't like Hal.
Speaker: Hal, Hal is a bad, bad person. And as the rest of it goes on, you're like, no, He knows he's a complicated person, but he also knows what he's doing.
Speaker: Yeah. He knows what he's doing. He's complicated. And the the reason he is being so aggressive to John is he knows that once we get more backstory,
Speaker: to things that have gone on we we know that oh he knows that something's up with the guardians which put a pin in that also come back to that also the fact like when people said that like oh this is true detective but lanterns no it is in the same way the true detective is a layered character study and a mystery we are unveiling, and as also has the same timeline shenanigans. We're looking at things from different perspectives, different characters, and unveiling both the mystery of the show and their characters.
Speaker: Now, before we we resume talking about Hal's character, because there's some stuff I want to talk about about his character, since you just mentioned the timeline things going on, Do we want to discuss how apparently the original structure of the series was not nearly as linear as what we got?
Speaker: Oh, it was radically different, apparently. ah Yeah, because apparently there was going to be a lot more frequent shifts between the different time periods that we had stories being told about.
Speaker: And some areas are supposed to be closer together to be more narratively like linear, but that didn't work for this episode. i know And so what we ended up with is a pilot episode that primarily took place in 2016, had an epilogue in 2026,
Speaker: had an epilogue in twenty twenty six both of which set up mysteries in their perspective her in their respective time periods.
Speaker: And then we pretty much stuck with 2016, except for the John Origen episode. Which was not supposed to be there in the first ah in initially. Yeah, it was supposed to be later on Which is supposed to be coinciding with It was either supposed to be before or i believe I've heard.
Speaker: i watched the podcast after podcast of Lantern. and it's like they were talking like either it was going to go before or after the howl origin.
Speaker: They were they're talking about that a lot. and And it was supposed to, if I recall right, it was also either right before or right after. no it wouldn't have been right after the climax.
Speaker: Yeah. Of episode five, because that was originally closer to the end of the series, which is why it felt like a season finale. and I do feel it helps it in its sort of runtime. like I am.
Speaker: I can't. That's the more thing that I need to think about more on how I feel about the actual. Structure of the series. Yeah. i'm more And but i I've seen quite a few people, including people who loved the series as a whole, who felt that the season finale was kind of anticlimactic, not just out of design, but because of the structure, because we had the quote-unquote season finale episode three episodes earlier.
Speaker: again I would like to, if there's a way to like eventually revisit this, I'm still... we're We're close off of the ending. We're very close off of the off of the series finale, and we're still talking about like this.
Speaker: There's no consensus on the discourse right now, but there's something to be talked about, like how they reorganized series. The fact that they were still talking about it, even in...
Speaker: the post-series podcast that they had. It's like, I feel that there's something to be gleaned on maybe ah second Watts, or at least trying to like recontextualize what but the original timeline was supposed to be.
Speaker: But we're just going on what we have right now. yeah that I can understand that like even the creators are still like, we're not sure how we feel about all it ah the the actual final thing.
Speaker: So, back to Hal. I loved the way that Hal... ah Sometimes it was a straight up interrogation. Sometimes it was just the way he interacted people to gather information.
Speaker: Because like we say, he he was presented as just this shoot first, ask questions later, cocky asshole. But and a player was much smarter than he let on.
Speaker: Also, he was a flirt. That's a classic howl thing. Oh yeah, that's classic Hal. yeah be how many tell How many times has Sasha from Casually Comics referenced that bit in, what was it, Justice? That ah Black Canary and somebody else are talking about the the threesome that Hal claims to have had with Lady Blackhawk and somebody else.
Speaker: And Kyle Chandler? I can believe it. But i I loved the way that he would use just... and And they set it up in the first episode. But he would just use average, everyday questions to get the information that he wanted. the interrogation scene is probably my favorite. again I love a good interrogation scene.
Speaker: And we we need to sit a certain player of ours in one of our RPG campaigns down in front of that scene. But again, he's he's in this scene. and Again, like we're not going to go into specifics, but he's interrogating a potential alien agent.
Speaker: And he brings the dead body in and says, you did it. I know that you did it. Confess. oh he No, he does that later. It's the next episode. Oh, I thought you were talking about our player. Sorry.
Speaker: that up How has this suspected alien agent in a classic interrogation scene? And he's he's asking some obvious...
Speaker: questions about the area. They're in a small town in Nebraska. Yeah, and the oette and he he also you know he he throws in general questions, and he's getting textbook answers back.
Speaker: So then he starts going like, oh, well, yeah he he mentions, you remember this is 2016, he mentions Obama. He's like, well, that is, you know. Oh, no, no, the first one, the first one is like,
Speaker: Like, so, where the Harry Potter go to school? Again, anyone that existed in that time period of the early 20s, 2010s, yeah, that that's in the zeitgeist.
Speaker: Yeah, i I knew it, and I have zero Fs to give about Harry Potter. But, again, that that's the thing, but what really got him off was, like, it was like,
Speaker: What do you know about Obama? He's the president. and here And I do love how the writers and Kyle Sanders said, like, Barack Hussein Obama, you have just the opinion that he's the president in Midwest Nebraska?
Speaker: Yeah. yeah it it was Yeah, that that's that's a That's a detective right there. And it carries through to every conversation that he has when, and not just that he has, but when the backup of his consciousness that is depending on which time period we're talking about 10 or 20 years out of date still does it.
Speaker: Again, he was like the, like the the holographic backup. The holographic backup, yeah a.k.a. the hologram. Hologram, yeah.
Speaker: When John digs up Hal's grave, takes the ring, and powers on the hologram, hologram knows that something is up, so he starts asking about his funeral.
Speaker: i did like core show a lot of I do love looks like,
Speaker: Ah, damn. Yeah. But you he's questioning, like oh well did did the core show up? Oh yeah, the whole core showed up. did Did the squirrel? Yeah, the squirrel was here. What about Mogo?
Speaker: Oh yeah, me and Mogo, we were standing right here. Yeah, Mogo's a goddamn planet. And it's like he he knew knows what questions to ask to tell when somebody's lying.
Speaker: And again... In the context, like, John is a perspective Lantern, he has probably not met any Lanterns. Well, he hasn't.
Speaker: we We know that he hasn't because he trained for two or three months. Hal told him about Chip, the squirrel, when yeah they were in the car in 2016. Then John turns down the Lantern.
Speaker: Also, he knows that Mogo doesn't socialize. That's the code word that he gets to be house plant but he he turns down the lantern so he never meets any of the core and so it's it's 10 years later he hasn't met any of the core so no he never did and so you yeah obviously and again house it's the easiest question for a lander's like oh did you meet mogo it's like yeah and you say you're right next to you like it's a damn planet man you're lying to me yeah and then when they go to talk to carrie well did we we talked about everything i told you about everything yeah i told you how my dad died yes
Speaker: And then the very first next thing that he says when he and John are alone, she fucking killed me. And he's right. He's right. and but Not for the right reasons that he's assuming.
Speaker: The hologram is wrong for the reasons, but it's correct in the assumption. ah Correct in his conclusion. Yeah. But the the fact is that, like, a lot of people assume that Howell Jordan...
Speaker: Is stupid. Yeah. Because don't think it's correct. Hal is. Simple. But he's also. Your classic beat cop.
Speaker: He knows. His place. He knows. But he's got his eyes and ears on things. Now let's talk John. John is a whole can of worms.
Speaker: He. He is. He is. And I love it. And again. like um but As a huge Green Lantern fan, I grew up, yes, with the DCAU Justice League. My first interracer, it was Jon Stewart.
Speaker: But then I got into comics shortly afterwards because like I want to know about Green Lantern. So that's how I got into Hal and everything else. But Hal, but Jon, Jon is a whole can of worms.
Speaker: And also played brilliantly. They could... that I don't think they could have picked a better they're actor for this role. Yeah, There's some very... Upon learning that Aaron Pierre is British, there are some very conscious decisions that he made in choosing John's voice and accent.
Speaker: And... And to where he's from, he's in... he's yeah Motor City, which is canonically... Midway. Midway City. Midway, yeah. which Which is... kinda Detroit in the DCU.
Speaker: Because, especially since the DCU is trying to avoid actual city. Well, they're making use of the comics fictional cities. Gunn has said, yeah, you know the the real cities that they're analogs for probably exist, but...
Speaker: you know They are... knock We're not going there. the The same reason that the comics use them, you have more leeway to do things with fictional cities.
Speaker: Yeah. Like the Coast City it hast has a pseudo-LA sort of look. Yeah, coast city Coast City is most frequently LA. occasionally has some touches of San Francisco in there.
Speaker: ah Star City is Seattle. the The way that they've described for decades, Metropolis and Gotham is Metropolis is this section of New York during the day, and Gotham is this other section of New York at night. I was i was so, got Gotham is New Jersey.
Speaker: Well, Gotham is in New Jersey, but Metropolis is in Delaware. Oh, that's true, yeah. So, and then depending on which which official DC map you look at, Central City can be central city can be Kansas or Missouri, and Blue Valley can be either Nebraska or Ohio.
Speaker: i would it more Nebraska. personally But ah but that that's neither here nor there. But some of the choices that he made, you you see a few different Jon Stewart's that are conflicting with one another. You see the nature and the nurture fighting with one another in everything that he does down to the way that he speaks. Yeah.
Speaker: Because when he he very much he code switches. Again, that there's this again, there's two. ah all I'd say there's multiple John Stewart's based on even individual timeline.
Speaker: When we see him as a kid, when I see him as a teenager, when we see him post in the middle of things and at the height of things. And and I feel that's a very deliberate choice for the character.
Speaker: Well, and we also see that reflected in elements about the character. Like in when he's a kid, after the abuse, the routine of after the abuse of shooting an apple off of his head to test his fear, he goes to get cheeseburgers with his dad.
Speaker: Which he later tells his mom that he doesn't like. And because he's a vegan. When we meet him in 2016, he's a vegan. When we are reunited with him in 2026, he's no longer a vegan.
Speaker: And we see just all of these progressions that the choices in his life lead to. And the changes ah them that makes. A lot of them are defined
Speaker: The Green Lantern core. whether his relationship to His relationship to the idea of becoming Green Lantern. And it's honestly the ah the emotional core of the entire higher series. It's honestly kind of it's abusive, but it also has...
Speaker: He's also a military man, but also that has some itself trauma and self itself. It's it's initially premise on his father, but no, it's his mother doing that. And that's being controlled by a guard.
Speaker: There's a. Now, that is one element of structure that I really, really appreciate. Yeah, because. you In the first episode, you see the flashback to when he's a kid. And the first time that we as the audience see the shooting the apple off his head ritual, his mother doesn't appear to be around anywhere.
Speaker: and And then two episodes later, we get to the... The father is... he's John is watching it eight A 60-minute interview with Green Lantern. Yeah, but that that that's not the part that I'm talking about.
Speaker: That's not that I'm talking I'm talking about the introduction of this ritual. Right, but that context doesn't matter to what I'm talking about. Yeah. um we We see that ritual.
Speaker: we we ah We can tell that there's some kind of connection to Green Lantern. But his mom doesn't appear to be around. Two episodes later, we get the origin of Jon Stewart episode.
Speaker: And first, near the beginning, it looks like she might be about to leave because of Jon's father being passed over.
Speaker: to become Green Lantern. but also Because it's becausecur he's becoming more, he's becoming more, for want of a better term, unhinged about it.
Speaker: Again, he was grabbed up in a green globe. Right, right, right. But again, where where I'm going with this is that we then, later on, after that ritual with the apple has been established, we ah And his mother is you know giving him him grief for not being fearless enough.
Speaker: And ah he you know John's like, no, you know let's let's go out now and do the apple. Okay, I'll get your father. No, I want you to do it. And makes her go outside and she does it. And then he's going to shoot the apple off of her head. and Clearly they did this on purpose. The audience then starts thinking, oh, we haven't seen her when he's an adult.
Speaker: This is about to go horribly wrong. And it doesn't. But again, it's playing with the idea of fear and courage.
Speaker: like Yeah. it Our fear is what's implying what we think is going to happen. It doesn't happen. But it's like, In that moment, fear overtook us in an audience. Like, oh, oh, oh, he's going to sue his mom in the face.
Speaker: Now, I, some of the concepts of them trying to just drive all of the fear out of him and and Hal being fearless and whatnot, that made me remember a a Hal Green Lantern storyline from the brief period in the late 80s when Action Comics became Action Comics Weekly and was an anthology book.
Speaker: And the Green Lantern series had been canceled. Yes. And Green Lantern became a feature in Action Comics Weekly. And there was a storyline written by one of my favorite writers, the dearly departed Peter David, where... Oh, you told me about this one before. to to to try to them what To try to rehabilitate his public image, because Hal's been taking some PR hits in-universe,
Speaker: Hal goes on what was very timely at the time, the Oprah Winfrey show. Oh yeah yeah, yeah. You did tell me about this one. Yeah. And,
Speaker: The audience is asking questions, which is the format of, hope was's was the format of Oprah's show. And one of them was asking, you like, what makes you such a big deal? you know, why are you a big deal superhero space cop? You know, my, my husband is a cop.
Speaker: You know, what makes you better than him? He's like, well, you know I'm totally fearless. And the audience laughs at him. And. It wasn't the Geoff Johns run a couple of decades later.
Speaker: It was that storyline that established the concepts of Green Lanterns aren't fearless, they overcome fear. Because in that storyline, Hal discovers that he was he wasn't an ideal match for Abin Sur's ring. He was the closest match that there was. So the ring blocked his fear.
Speaker: And so he told the ring to stop blocking his fear and it didn't really go so well. But that storyline is what first established that concept of Green Lanterns not being fearless, but being able to overcome their fear. And what would become like the part of the basis of Jeff John's recreation of Yeah. plant And lore that honestly is better than every part of it. It's like, cause otherwise he, for that, it wasn't just like fear. It was also the color yellow, like just, just yellow.
Speaker: Yeah, which you know a lot of people point to the All-Star Batman and Robin panel where Batman and Robin paint themselves in an entire room yellow to defeat Green Lantern. No, no, no. My favorite instance of that was New Teen Titans number four. The Titans facing off against the Justice League and Robin whips off his cape, wraps it around Hal's ring hand, and then kicks him in the face.
Speaker: Yeah. That's not how that works. That's not that works at all. That is exactly how that worked at the time. it was it was useless against the color yellow. Robin had a yellow cape and he wrapped it around around Hal's ring hand and wiped the floor with him with a back kick to the face. Zero needs to go back and build the timer scene go back in time and then and kick someone's ass because that's stupid. That doesn't make any fucking sense.
Speaker: That made perfect sense with the way things worked at the time. And, you Dick Grayson is my boy. He outsmarted Hal Jordan with a cape. But coming back to the show, coming back to Lanterns, that that whole idea of driving the fear out and then you get the revelation by the hologram that Hal's father...
Speaker: was had depression and killed himself. his father His grandfather had depression and killed himself. And apparently going back generations and generations to the point that they gave it a a nickname, the Jordan Boys Legacy.
Speaker: And you'd have the hologram... Which is not a... I think it's been implied in a couple runs, but it's never been like to that degree.
Speaker: But the hologram admits to John, I'm not fearless because I'm brave. I'm fearless because I'm broken. And I don't want that fate for me.
Speaker: But you also have seen by that point in the series that just like Hal's father had and his grandfather before him had set up you know notes and letters and things to effectively pass on this trauma.
Speaker: to the next generation, so had Hal. Which explains the hologram. Yeah, that's why it hadn't been backed up. Again, the first the first time he appeared was like, am I dead?
Speaker: As if expecting, like, I wouldn't be sewing up, am I dead? Yeah, so we we see that all of that is there, and John Finally, at the at the end of the fifth episode, the end of the 2016 storyline, he overcomes, he learns to overcome that fear and turns down the ring.
Speaker: Because up until that point, he had been living for everyone else's goals. ah The Guardians, pseudo-Hal, himself, that he deluded himself into.
Speaker: ed And since you just brought them up, shall we now segue to the guardians? Because yes there's there's not much. We don't have much and we only see one guardian.
Speaker: feel that this is this is the best introduction to anyone. i feel that whenever I've talked to people at the guardians, I've introduced people to the comics before they're like,
Speaker: I thought the Guardians were better at this. No, no, they're assholes. They've always been assholes. They're like... Infantesimal assholes.
Speaker: Yep, absolutely. And this series introduces them perfectly. Well, and and here's the thing, too. The way everything is structured, we don't know if this is...
Speaker: all of the Guardians, or is it just Liana who is very sketchy? Well, we know that there's at least 12, when normally it's around like 36 as the main. 12 is about right, usually. Either way, one's died.
Speaker: So there's 11. And Liana is not a sadist, no one. She's in the... Again, regardless.
Speaker: We're choosing that's... They're sketchy as heck. Oh, yeah. They are sketchy as hell. At least Liana is.
Speaker: And... Is he representing all the Guardians? We don't know. We really don't, and there's... Which just adds to the sketchiness of the Guardians. Which, again, is...
Speaker: I kept waiting for another shoe to drop. I remember introducing my friends into Green Lantern Comics. Comics at my school. it's like like I don't know if we can trust the Guardians.
Speaker: Yeah. That's kind of the point. Kind of sketchy. Kind of weird. Yep. And guess what? and This series did not disappoint me. Like...
Speaker: Yeah, I don't trust the Guardians. I don't trust them at all. Nope. And that's where a lot of the theorycrafting was coming in, was coming in about the Guardians.
Speaker: and um And again, i i I did not engage in Guardian theorycrafting. They ain't going to play the cards right now.
Speaker: i I took part in a little bit because until we got to 2026 proper in the um we had been told in 2016 that there's only ever one Guardian per sector slash on Earth.
Speaker: And we were assuming that Either Hal was still alive or John had become Green Lantern. We got to the end of the first episode. Like, okay, Hal has continued to be Green Lantern up until this point.
Speaker: Because that's why John checked his his ring finger. But Guy Gardner was Green Lantern in 2025 in Superman. So how do we reconcile this?
Speaker: My theory crafting was that just like in the comics, when they brought Guy back during the crisis on infinite earths, a rogue faction of the guardians brought Guy back and gave him his own ring.
Speaker: i I still think that there there's some credence to the rogue faction of the guardians, but I don't think it's what's happening right now. Well, that's not what's happening with Guy. They told us what happened with Guy.
Speaker: when When John turned down the ring, that's when they recruited Guy. And the reason Guy's ring looked different is they decommissioned Hal's ring and forged a new one for Guy.
Speaker: It was a simple straight line that so many of us were overthinking. And figured we'd done it like Nathan Fillion does appear.
Speaker: Yes, and so this is a prime example of... hi i don't want to go down a rabbit hole of of you know tearing something down down to build something else up.
Speaker: We've established that I didn't care for the DCEU. We could do it in time. Entire episode, you and me, about that if you want to. I would gladly do that. because we try to stay positive.
Speaker: um yeah But the this is the kind of an example of the kind of thing that I think that iteration of the franchise ignored to their detriment that makes DC's comics line as a whole so wonderful in that you have characters that that share the same universe, but are totally different in tone, style, and approach.
Speaker: But when you combine them, they still work together. Because Guy Gardner, as we saw in Superman last summer, was more...
Speaker: was more the Giffen de Mateus Justice League International Guy Gardner. Cavalier, uh, Devil May Care.
Speaker: Cavalier, Devil May Care, and and kind of a goofy dipshit. But also kind of a prick that would be similar to a, if they were in the same series, they might compete with Howard Jordan, but in Lanterns... In Lanterns, he's the Green Lantern version of Guy, who is more of an aggressive asshole.
Speaker: Hard-nosed. He's serious, but... still him and they but they still kept a few touches of the lighter version of guy from superman like when john says yeah you know you that right right because gym teacher i was an athletic director again that kind of thing in his delivery yeah So i I love Philly and his guy. i
Speaker: we We see why he operates differently. We now have a greater insight into how he got the ring. And he's and he's got the ring because like the Guardians thought Jon would be, he's more obedient to them.
Speaker: And the main factor is like, the main factor that everyone's worried about, about like, well, how do you differentiate a green lantern from a green lantern? it's Like, well, now we have three of them and they're completely different characters.
Speaker: Yep. And speaking of, of differences, I want to talk for just a minute about the green lantern oath.
Speaker: If you don't mind. so you personally I have my have my feelings as well. Okay, well, so a lot of a lot of people have thoughts about the oath.
Speaker: The first time we hear the oath associated with this series was in a trailer, and it sounded like this. In brightest day, in blackest night, and evil shall escape my sight.
Speaker: those who worship your beles might
Speaker: You wear my power.
Speaker: Green Lantern's light.
Speaker: And that sounds like you would kind of expect it to sound all you are if you're familiar with the comics. And it is the exact, like, it is the classic. It is the, it is the oaf. And it is what do you expect to hear.
Speaker: Especially in yeah a moment of, like, and like Yeah, it has like... This is in a trailer, so it has like a lot of explosions and all that stuff. but we will but the delivery of my oath that But the delivery of the oath itself has gravitas.
Speaker: it's It's clearly meant to be like at a moment of gravitas. This is when Green Lantern needs to charge his ring in a moment of...
Speaker: desperation or stand up heroically. yeahp And it does. It sounds glorious. I i love that iteration of it. It's just as a Green Lantern fan.
Speaker: Now, here is the first time we hear the oath in the series at all in any context. In episode one. In episode one, when that alien is being interrogated,
Speaker: And he says it to Hal. If you do blow yourself up, I'm just going bubble up and contain all that sunshine with my ring and walk out of here without a scratch. Does that not violate your precious oath?
Speaker: In brightest day and blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might beware my power. Green Lantern's life.
Speaker: like so As a Green Lantern fan, the a disrespectful reiteration of that that dead they did me personally but like I can understand why it also hit Hal like that it's like that's the oath yep so then in the next episode we hear Hal say it for the first time in the series and this is it
Speaker: Brightest day and blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evils might be where my power green lanterns light.
Speaker: It's like, okay, I have to do this. And it's not a crisis situation. it's It's like, ah again, as boy and someone who grew up craft, because like, ah you're doing the Lord's Fair, like, but I gotta do it quick.
Speaker: Or the the way I heard saw somebody describe it is it's like he's doing the disclaimer terms and conditions at the end of a pharmaceutical ad. I mean... and And so this had some people saying... This was contributing to the whole of The Creators Hate Hal Jordan thing.
Speaker: discourse. it's I can understand that even I had like a little bit of a person like, man, that's as someone who's a big fan of Greenland. It's like, yeah, it's the elf. You gotta respect the elf, man.
Speaker: But we've seen contextually, like, in that same scene, he also you complained that John brought the uniform back with the power battery.
Speaker: Yeah. you Why'd you bring the uniform? And so what this is, this is a nice little, another little misdirect here in that they're wanting us to read Hal as being kind of burned out and over it.
Speaker: Misrespectful. Which again, and honestly, by like the... I do feel that a lot of people put like the oath is a ritual. It was like, well, no, that's just that's a code phrase. That's how you open it. It's basically your password.
Speaker: It starts your ring. It doesn't have to be with reverence. It just has to that. That's what you say. Well, yeah, the reverence, the reverence come from the fact that you have the willpower to to draw from the lantern.
Speaker: That's the real nig power. And then finally, at the end of the series, johns John takes got our Hal's ring, but he's using a new power battery that... I think we have the act way have to explain that before... though That's what I was about to do.
Speaker: yeah he's He's taken a new power battery that has been forged by Sinestro, so it has the yellow impurity in it.
Speaker: Very... I will say that that battery is beautiful. It has like that sort of like... ah I can't remember the name of it, but it's a Japanese art where you can reforge things where the impurities are...
Speaker: it It was similarly done to Kylo Ren's mask in... I can't remember what the art form was, but it's it does create a beautiful artwork, but it's like... Yeah, it's a green lantern lantern, but it's very clearly like there's like yellow creating in the cracks, as if... Yeah.
Speaker: Implying the yellow impurity. And he he basically, he he tells, he calls Guy back and says like... little like a With his bat signal.
Speaker: Yeah. And says, yeah, Earth is mine, you you get the rest of the sector. Oh, I do love love this. Love that it's like,
Speaker: i I have the asses, have the stars. I have the dirt, you have the stars. Yeah. that's So he is like Arse Lantern. And again, that also frees up guys for like this like Cosmic Lantern event. Well, and worth noting too,
Speaker: Prior to this series coming out, they had announced that Aaron Pierre is going to be in next year's Man of Tomorrow movie. They said, yo, yeah, he's going to be Jon Stewart.
Speaker: Very pointedly, they never said he's going to be Green Lantern. Because that's Guy Gardner. They said he's going to be Jon Stewart.
Speaker: And so at the end of the finale... John charges his ring and recites his own oath.
Speaker: this ring.
Speaker: I choose this fight.
Speaker: In service to this lantern's light.
Speaker: And we clearly see that... You can go with on this. we We clearly see that he's going to be following his own ethos here.
Speaker: And... And again, he's he does not say Green Lantern, or Will, or anything else.
Speaker: Yeah, and he very clearly says that you know he's embracing his fear. he's He's not doing this I'm fearless nonsense. And there's implications. There's many implications. You look at this, like he could be embracing fear. He could create a yellow ring.
Speaker: Or he could be just unacknowledging it. Well, and it's worth noting, too, that when they were rolling out promotion for the project and they were announcing the casting, they said, you know, Kyle Chandler's going to be Hal Jordan. And they showed a picture of Hal from the out-of-continuity Green Lantern Earth-1 comic. Yeah.
Speaker: And they showed John also from that same comic where John is not a green lantern. He is a yellow lantern. And there's many implications if you know all of the various comic elements to the characters.
Speaker: dent I both applaud the fact that as comic book fans there's like so many different variations. And it's just in terms of the storytelling, different variations.
Speaker: Yeah. And I like... We are not given an answer here. I do love the Oath in general for the character.
Speaker: The character, yeah it makes sense. It is after being abused, groomed, chosen...
Speaker: Focused on... John is now his own... His own person. His own person.
Speaker: And he is his lantern. Which... Again, I do feel like we aren't going to see... We're going to see what that is in Man And...
Speaker: and Interestingly enough, since the pilot episode ended with the murder of Hal Jordan, we find out that Carrie, yes, indeed, kill Hal. And you know what's interesting that I just noticed, Nick? We've gone, you know, well over an hour.
Speaker: We haven't talked about the Manhunters because, well, yeah, they are characters in this. That sounds a story. They're almost incidental.
Speaker: Again, I feel like, as I mentioned at the front end, I don't think this is like, oh, we're setting up the this stuff to build up to, like... Again, initially I thought, like, oh it's lanterns, we're going to build up into, like, ah Blackest Night, Sinister Core War...
Speaker: Honestly, no. Hell, Millennium. This is a more intimate, the simple character story that it has pieces.
Speaker: I feel that we have the pieces to build to those bigger stories. The Manhunters,
Speaker: ah ter the the aliens that on Earth, like, The story is made to be more, let's get connected to the characters.
Speaker: Yeah. in Instead of being like, here's what we're setting up for.
Speaker: It's very antithetical to like what's going on in like the, the the if we're going like classic MCU. so So what are we going to do?
Speaker: Well, we're putting all of our pieces on the board. That's what we're doing. And here's some extra pieces that, yeah, those are going to amount to something else. But we made characters, we got characters and stuff.
Speaker: We got Sinestro's out there. We got Green Lanterns. We got the Guardians. We got a whole lot of pieces on the board.
Speaker: Yeah, and we have a great big board that they're on But I feel like, instead of being like, okay, here's where the next move is going, it's like, let's see where the characters go.
Speaker: Well, we have them floating. that's a great to... that's a great segue to note that while HBO Warner Brothers has not officially announced a season two pickup for Lanterns, there is a motor there has been a writer's room assembled for a season two.
Speaker: And it's no surprise that it's been a huge critical success, a lot of people tuning in. and Interestingly, you they we started with, well, the the pilot concluded with Hal's murder.
Speaker: Hal's dead. there There is no comic book resurrection for Hal. There was the possibility floated of one by Sinestro, but was he talking out his ass or could he really have done it?
Speaker: don't know, Daryl. Um... But I feel very confident... How Jordan died before... How Jordan will return in Avengers Doomsday.
Speaker: I'm sorry, what were you saying? don't know. I guess he will. ah Potentially. Who knows?
Speaker: But overall, I mean, we we just scratched the surface of a full season. Honestly, there's we talked about the main plot points, and so but there's a whole lot of like emotional drama, some stuff that maybe we aren't capable of talking about based on race relations. There's a whole lot to talk about.
Speaker: Yeah, and... But it's a rich and powerful series that, again... If you ever heard what we talked about... I can understand... What's it?
Speaker: I can understand the people who were underwhelmed by the finale. Because... it's It wasn't what one would expect from a superhero story finale.
Speaker: That came three episodes earlier, and it's it's perfectly understandable to... see, okay, well, we had the 2016 story and we built to its climax. Then we had the 2026 story.
Speaker: Where was its climax? And its climax was emotional. can, that's, that's the nature of, again, I, that is an emotional climax. And, again, I,
Speaker: um it i My problem is maybe that the structure sir wasn't perfect. Especially from i hearing how that the even even the creators felt problems with the structure.
Speaker: But I do felt that what we had was at least an emotional climax. I would like to take some time and re-watch and listen to the podcast again too see what they had intentionally. it's like Would that have been a better emotional climax? But I do feel like from what we got was the emotional climax.
Speaker: The climax of the story. Again, it doesn't have to be the big explosive finale. It's, again, is like stereotypical of like a so of a superhero story. It's like, oh, it has to be a big explosive.
Speaker: There has to be a big fight, big explosions. yeah Sky beam, and everyone's okay at the end. it's like It can be messy.
Speaker: It can be confusing. It can be a bit like, as of right now, here at the moment, I'd say like, I i think this is good. I don't think it's great, but maybe if I rewatch again and rethink it,
Speaker: maybe it'll be better or worse. As I write down, I say it's good. Yeah, and i I absolutely want to see where John goes from here. I'm looking forward to see what his involvement is in Man of Tomorrow, and I want to see where he goes beyond Man of Tomorrow.
Speaker: Again, there's a lot. Again, like, Nothing in... Even with a... And I'll admit, like... I'll agree with you. Like, it it did feel like a kind of anticlimax. But there was some good stuff character-wise.
Speaker: My problem is... But maybe I'll change my mind on another rewatch. Rethink. But ultimately... The characters.
Speaker: The storylines. All of that worked. Yep, they absolutely did. So even if it was a quote-unquote anti-climax,
Speaker: maybe we just take a little re-look. Maybe if I re-look and like yeah I haven't re-watched the whole series. Maybe if I re-watch it again or again, can see like problems or appreciate it more.
Speaker: Yeah. I definitely want to re-watch it at some time as well. We're glad to re-watch it with you, friend. Same here.
Speaker: that very week how you good We could find what we like, oh what we weren't a big fan of, and maybe we could change our minds on things. Maybe so.
Speaker: Isn't that that's the nature of enjoying media. Mm-hmm. And I cannot think of anything else that I want to add just now. How about you?
Speaker: no, uh, not at all, my friend. All right. Well, I will then Thank everyone for joining us for Casual Nerdity.
Speaker: i will also, as I always do, say that if you're enjoying the show, there are a few easy ways to support us. Leaving a hopefully good review on your podcast platform of choice.
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Speaker: head You can also support the show directly by grabbing a t-shirt from our merch store at store.casualnerdity.com. Yeah, I get a couple of them. And of course, you can come hang out with us on social media. We're Casual Nerdity, all one word, on Facebook, Instagram, threads, and Twitter. And CasualNerdity.com on Blue Sky. and Until next time, keep your origin story messy and your arc satisfying. So long.
Speaker: Bye-bye. This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.
