Transcript
Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Our aim is to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everyone. We hope that you are doing well. Nick, Lauren, my friends, how are you doing? Doing well.
Speaker: Time is a piece of work. Yes. Time is the fire in which we burn. Indeed. And that with that quote, ah before we dive into our previously scheduled shenanigans and and clone watchery, um yeah, the we're going to have a moment to refrain on how 2026 can, given how early this is in in the episode, 2026 can go f itself.
Speaker: Nick rocks is, believe, the more appropriate YouTube term. Nick, Nick, we're early enough in the recording that it will hit platform sensors.
Speaker: ah And Nick rocks is is appropriate. um But early in the week, we knew Star Trek fans lost Walter Koenig, who played Chekhov in the original series and original series movies.
Speaker: And then we got hit hard just a few days later with the loss of Sir Patrick Stewart, a giant in the acting community. pop culture of just...
Speaker: generations of peoples. Yeah, it just, it really sucks. It really hits hard. There's outpouring of sentiment. ah i The way that the online community is rallying around Wil Wheaton right now in particular is heartwarming because so many are feeling the need to post the shut up Wesley meme, especially since ah he took exception to a member of the current administration's
Speaker: attempting to eulogize Sir Patrick and Will told him, yeah, you keep your cap keep my captain's name out of your mouth. he would hate He hated everything that you stand for. And so people are you hitting him.
Speaker: There's been beautiful videos online from Star Trek Online, a game that even I forgot was still existing, across the entirety of that they've there's been multiple videos of just ah wholehearted tributes from this across the entirety of that and and actors who have met and talked with them are just complimenting how much that they appreciate just sharing moments with that and you know
Speaker: we We've got our running Avengers Doomsday gag, and yes, dear listeners, we will continue beating that into the ground later. But when when we go see Doomsday next month, that's going to hit even harder now.
Speaker: is that's that's going to be That's his final filmed performance. As one of his most... His second most iconic character. yeah And they've been suggesting heavily in the marketing that Professor X isn't going to make it out of this movie.
Speaker: a So, oh, i I am going ready to have my heart ripped out. Yeah. And um if there's anything to be said from like the supposed leaks from the the Doomsday test screenings. It it isn't going to be your usual feel-good Marvel film.
Speaker: No. No. um But let's let's just wrap this ah this little mini-memorial up with...
Speaker: it It's kind of a minor moment from one of the, let's be frank, least liked Next Generation movies.
Speaker: But let's let's just let's leave with a quote from the captain. of Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. And I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey.
Speaker: Reminds us to cherish every moment.
Speaker: Because they'll never come again.
Speaker: What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived. After all, Naborn, we're only mortal.
Speaker: Sadly so. Sadly so. What I debated using the very next line in that clip in which Riker says, speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.
Speaker: And I i wanted, i thought about keeping it. The reason I didn't is I wanted to leave the the clip just to Sir Patrick. Yeah. yeah he did But again, he is a, if you don't know, he's a master of not just television and film, but of the stagecraft. He was trained in the same place place that that Shakespeare, the globe... he's He was a member of the Royal Shakespeare Company, and but he also was never above hamming it up and and you getting goofy, too. but i thought he is all he was also the boss...
Speaker: On all the seasons of American Dad, which I didn't even know until this passing. It's like... But I thought about... It's an uncoopy character. It's like, but he he's all that.
Speaker: I thought about leaving the Riker bit in there simply because...
Speaker: because of the body of work that he leaves behind and the way that he touched so many of us in the audience and the people that he worked with, he is going to live forever.
Speaker: He will not pass. He is going to be part of every generation going forward because everyone's going to say,
Speaker: a Let's see something from Patrick Stewart and they're going to see it. Yep. Even within this very podcast, we've talked about how the next series that we watch may end up being Star Trek The Next Generation.
Speaker: Yes. Yep. And you'll see that that's where most of us first saw him. Some of us saw him first in the X-Men films. Yes, that is where I know him most.
Speaker: But if he is he is leaving behind a legacy of work that is truly timeless and will live on long, long past this moment.
Speaker: And he has lived a long life. So yeah he's he will be long remembered and never forgotten. Yep.
Speaker: And now it it it feels... It feels like whiplash to me to then pivot and transition into our Clone Watch episode where Lauren continues her journey through the Clone Wars with Nick along for the ride to provide context, answer questions, and occasionally get way too excited about Star Wars lore.
Speaker: Yes. but There is a lot of... There's a lot more... fear ah Theocracy going on in this one, rather than theorycrafting.
Speaker: And this time, we're covering three episodes, Voices, Destiny, and Sacrifice. Ending the Lost Episodes arc. Right.
Speaker: So Yoda starts hearing things, the Jedi get a little uncomfortable with some very big questions, and we head into some seriously weird Force territory. What does it all mean and how much of this is Lauren going to make Nick explain?
Speaker: Let's find out. First up, we have Voices, Season 6, Episode 11. Yoda escapes the Jedi Temple to follow a disembodied voice.
Speaker: Yes. So this is one of those rare instances where, while not a part of that actual previous arc, the and we open that after the revelations of that previous episode, the Jedi are trying to figure out what to make of it all. you know Finding out about the clone army Sifo-Dyas and Dooku's involvement in all of that.
Speaker: While Yoda meditates and, well, he hears a familiar voice. Yoda, hear you, I do.
Speaker: Who are you?
Speaker: My imagination, it must be. No.
Speaker: It is I, Qui-Gon Jinn. That cannot be. Dead you are. No. I am part of the Living Force, Yoda. Impossible.
Speaker: Respect, much respect for getting Liam Neeson back to voice a children's cartoon. Remember, this is for kids. ah And it although part of me, you know, when he's like, it is Aslan.
Speaker: But also the Liam Neeson has admitted that he he took his lightsaber when he left. left the Phantom Menace set.
Speaker: He loved the being part of Star Wars. Beautiful. So, the council meets, and Ki-Adi Mundi continues the retroactive pattern of being an oblivious idiot by declaring, Count Dooku isn't the Sith Lord, just an apprentice.
Speaker: yeah Just because he was a political idealist when we first heard his voice. Dooku's a political idealist. Yeah, and I think we have explained this to you at one point, Lauren, yeah that they Kiari Mundi has been transitioned into the poster child for just being completely oblivious and wrong about everything that he says.
Speaker: Yes. yeah really It's doubly fitting since his whole species is that he has two two brains, so he's making him the the one that says the dumbest stuff.
Speaker: is a joke. Yes. So Mace is concerned about Yoda seeming out of it and can find confides in Obi-Wan about it.
Speaker: So Yoda goes and he's meditating in the Jedi courtyard, which is where Anakin finds him. So Yoda asks ah about them speaking with Qui-Gon on Mortis. And Anakin explains that he and Obi-Wan, especially Obi-Wan, believe it was just just an illusion. After all, everything they know about the Force says that you can't retain your consciousness after death.
Speaker: Yes, Yoda counters. But what? but what about what we know not? And Anakin thinks Yoda's nuts if he believes that he spoke to Qui-Gon. Oh, no, um, uh, I, I need some rest now. Rest, yes, rest I need.
Speaker: ah guess, like, it's, it's very much a crisis of faith in these episodes. So Yoda tells the council,
Speaker: um about hearing Qui-Gon, but isn't sure to believe his own senses, so they all meditate together. Which leads into just a really cool you know montage of time passing on Coruscant. One of those speed time montages that look beautiful.
Speaker: it was It really truly was. It was like, It's also just funny that they were just there for for like a whole ass day. So they and they are there for that long, but Yoda doesn't hear the voice again.
Speaker: So and everyone feels kind of weird. It's like but we said said we said something. Did you feel something? No, I didn't feel anything. nope um So we get more Ki-Adi-Mundi wrongness.
Speaker: Maybe this is a deception by the Sith. Let me tell you. When the Dark Horse cor comics started in the prequel era, around the time of The Phantom Menace, and they starred Ki-Adi Bundy, I thought he was a pretty cool and interesting character.
Speaker: and Clone Wars and the Acolyte have made him a completely clueless, always wrong dolt. Oh no. yeah i feel that they took the joke that he has two brains, but he's... They're not... The neurons aren't firing.
Speaker: But Yoda agrees that maybe it's a deception ah from the Sith. So they put him in the Jedi infirmary. And Ki-Adi Mundi now thinks that because Dooku was Yoda's apprentice, whoever the Sith Lord is, is using that connection to attack Yoda. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I mean, Kiyote Moody, stop cooking. You're not you're not cooking. you're You're burning. You're burning the steak. I mean, technically, he is right that they end up doing that. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm just saying, right now, he's not just not right at this moment. Yeah. I mean, yeah we can't give re don't give retroactive points to Kiyote Moody. I mean, he he predicts a thing that does happen.
Speaker: And so here's the thing, Nick, you said that, you know, Kiari Mundi is, he's not even cooking. He's burning the food. He's doing what my roommate did once, which was he burned the water trying to make macaroni and cheese.
Speaker: I say he burned, I say he burned the water. What he did was he he put the water in the pan and turned the oven on, and then went and sat down to watch TV for the water to start boiling.
Speaker: But he didn't know how he didn't know how to cook. He didn't have much experience cooking. So he sat and watched like an entire 30-minute program with the water in the pan set to like high.
Speaker: Oh, my. Oh, God. on So he boiled all of the water off, And was just heating up an empty pan. oh Oh, God.
Speaker: So I always told him that he burned water. i tried teaching that boy how to cook. But ah what one one last cooking failure on his part.
Speaker: One time. ah we're we're sitting in the apartment. I was like, you know what? I think I want some pancakes. He's like, let me get my shoes. I'll go with you. was like, I'm going into the kitchen to make pancakes, my dude.
Speaker: Yes. he's like He's like, oh. I was like, they're super easy. Let me show you how. Because it's just a mix and you just add water.
Speaker: oh Oh, God. i um I'm already feeling the terror. we We go in. I made mine. I was like, here, watch what I do, and then you do the same thing.
Speaker: So I made mine. I mixed everything I put the mix in. Put in the water. Whip, whip, whip, whip, whip. Pour, pour, pour onto the griddle. watch for them Watch for it to bubble through.
Speaker: Flip. Let it finish. On they go to my plate. Butter, syrup, nice and fluffy. Beautiful. So he's like, oh yeah, that's easy. Let me do that. So I go in and I'm in the living room and I eat my pancakes and I come in as he's getting his off of the griddle.
Speaker: Somehow he managed to burn the top and bottom, but still have raw batter in the middle. Weird.
Speaker: you know i I can cook pancakes. And I am pretty much inept at anything cooking-wise, but I can cook a decent pancake.
Speaker: But, you know, i've how one of my best friends, a dear, dear friend, love him to this day, even though he's no longer with us, but at least back then, he could not cook.
Speaker: Anyway... because he ate his own cooking? Well, he's no longer with us, so... um like Like Sir Patrick, he's no longer with us.
Speaker: um i said I said stop myself. I said I'll settle down. So Yoda undergoes a sensory deprivation deep meditation procedure.
Speaker: Yes, yes. A very dangerous procedure that could potentially kill him. But apparently figuring out this voice is a big deal to everyone involved. I mean, Anakin, Obi-Wan are even watching the tank.
Speaker: Yep. And let's take a listen. What are you doing? By reducing the flow of oxygen, the body will be forced into a deep meditative state. It will take him as close to death as possible.
Speaker: I don't like this. Yoda, no, this is not the way.
Speaker: come to dagoba The answers you seek are here. But why? You must complete what I could not. His vital signs are dropping too low. But the test! I want him out of there now!
Speaker: Master Yoda! Master Yoda, wake up! Speak of this to no one. Trust no one. Come to Dagobah alone.
Speaker: got hu
Speaker: Welcome back, old friend. Thought we lost you there. Speaking to the dead, I was friends long gone. Good friends.
Speaker: But the Jedi don't believe him. So the doctor confines him to bed rest. theyre They're basically assuming, like, oh... He's dripping balls right now.
Speaker: He's completely out of it. and eight He's you know nearly 900 years old. He's going he's going Jedi senile. So Yoda asks Anakin to help him escape, telling him that you know you're going to be blamed because disobeying the council is his specialty.
Speaker: Yep, yep. He says, ah disobeying the council, your vestidies. And he's not wrong. And Anakin's like, yeah, that's thing.
Speaker: that That's my jam. ah So Anakin has R2 give Yoda a piggyback ride to a ship to get out of the temple.
Speaker: Yes. and And is it just me, or does Yoda's personal Jedi Interceptor look very TIE Fighter-y? Well, it means it actually stood, because it's the Jedi Interceptor, Edith's Actis Fighter, is designed by Cyanar Fleet Systems, which would be eventually the the company that makes the TIE Fighter.
Speaker: Yeah, but the the other Jedi Interceptors... the The cockpit is more conical. Yeah. Because there's a little guy. It's spherical and has the TIE fighter window in it.
Speaker: Yeah. It's like poetry. It rhymes. Mm-hmm. Again, it's like poetry. So if they rhyme. Yeah. oh Thank you, George. um So Yoda and R2 go to Dagobah.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, and then Yoda ends up following a mysterious light on Dagobah. A mysterious light.
Speaker: Here I am, ready for my next instruction, Master Cri-Gon. Yoda, my old friend, you have come at last. Cri-Gon Jinn, really you?
Speaker: It is? It is. Losing my mind, am not? my friend. Why have you brought me here? Follow the light.
Speaker: The light will be your guide. Strong this planet is with the Force. It is one of the purest places in the galaxy. How are you here?
Speaker: I am a manifestation of the Force. A Force that consists of two parts. Living beings generate the living force, which in turn powers the wellspring that is the cosmic force.
Speaker: Show yourself. Can you? I cannot. My training was incomplete. All energy from the living force, from all things that have ever lived, feeds into the cosmic force, binding everything and communicating to us through the midichlorians.
Speaker: Because of this, can speak to you now. See the future. You can. I exist where there is no future past. Know you who the Sith Lord is I can only show you a place where the answers will be revealed to you.
Speaker: Be wary. Give power to that which you fear, and it will show itself to you.
Speaker: So yes, they they explained the Cosmic Force versus the Living Force. Which has been a major contention throughout the entirety of the franchise for fans. Oh, really?
Speaker: Living and Cosmic Force have been sort of, always been sort of a strange, like, Well, and especially since 99, which Phantom Menace was the first time that those two terms were used on on screen and and in any kind of dialogue.
Speaker: Yeah, but there's always been sort of a... The Force has always been a discussing point in the fandom. But especially in this case, it was given two sides of like the...
Speaker: idea that the Force is all is as Obi-Wan described it in a New Hope. And, you know, Nick, wi without being too spoilery, it it's kind of coincidental that we played that clip and we're discussing this concept.
Speaker: And I happen to have had an opportunity over this past week to catch up a bit more on Trials of the Jedi, the final High Republic novel.
Speaker: And a very similar concept is in play on a planet where certain creatures come from. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: There's been ideas about Is the Force just the nature between living beings, or is it something more than even that, the cosmic and the living Force?
Speaker: Yep, and in that High Republic book, it's explained that the nature of those certain creatures and the way that they've been presented so far in the High Republic series is because that on their world, they are part of maintaining that balance.
Speaker: And again, did there's a... What we have been seeing as monsters are more of a Galactus kind of thing. mean Fascinating.
Speaker: And again, that's part of the nature of this helps reframe a great deal of like people's misunderstanding of the balance. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: It's a lot more nuanced than just the balance of light and dark Sith and Jedi. And so Yoda then heads into the infamous cave on Dagobah.
Speaker: and The same one that a a certain farm boy will head into a generation later. ah That YNK that no one wants to play is on the playground, and everyone wants to play is gone.
Speaker: Yes. The one who was going to pick up some power converters. Up next on stage one, the power converters. Oh, boy.
Speaker: um But in the cave, Yoda sees visions of Jedi fighting and of moments from Revenge of the Sith. And then he sees an image of Sidious and hears his name with Sidious enticing Yoda to join him.
Speaker: And Qui-Gon then explains that Every day the Clone War goes on, the more evil spreads.
Speaker: And Yoda is going to be tasked with learning to retain his consciousness after death to commune with the living. And here we get lore change saying that it's something only a few Jedi have ever been able to do.
Speaker: Where previously in Legends... it had been pretty standard for a Jedi to vanish into the Force upon death, which had people scratching their heads when Qui-Gon didn't in The Phantom Menace.
Speaker: nice And this has become the sort of... and People would say, like, oh, the Disney canon. No, this is still Luca's canon. Yeah, this is before the Disney buyout. he Again, Luca's never really cared for the Legends content.
Speaker: That we now know, isn't it? The expanded universe. It's not so much that he didn't care for it, he didn't care a about it. Yeah. It's not that he didn't care for it, it's that he didn't care about it. You're right, I forgot. use very it He was very interested in Darth Talon.
Speaker: And Aayla Secura. This is true. so So Lucas has a thing for Twilight Women. a a um But yeah, it it was less that he, it was less that he just, or more that he just didn't care about it because he's like, you go do your thing.
Speaker: i am perfectly free to contradict anything in that ancillary media on screen. It was like, oh, I'm sorry, I can't hear you over i'm over the money I'm counting right now.
Speaker: Yes, of course. until i Until I say that it's different. And then I still have a so can't hear you over the money I'm now counting. But you he he let Legends do its thing, or the EU at the time, the the expanded universe at the time, do its thing, but he did not feel beholden to it.
Speaker: And we've we've talked before, like in some of the Mandalorian episodes about how that did create some tension. And creatively, it also led to some contradictory stories.
Speaker: But hey, you know what? It's fine. It's all good. As someone, as one character that you have come to know well, says at one point in Star Wars Rebels, there's always a little truth in Legends.
Speaker: But that takes us on to our next episode. Destiny, Season 6, Episode 12. Yoda undergoes training to uncover the secret to immortality.
Speaker: Yeah. And this is like a huge...
Speaker: The first episode is pretty good. It has a lot of interesting concepts and things. Now we're getting into the weird stuff. now's where Now's where shit starts to get weird.
Speaker: I do appreciate it getting weird. and like Yes. I got like... there's a There are like multiple sects of like the the Star Wars fans, different groupings of what they like.
Speaker: As a huge Star Wars fan myself, I like it when Star Wars gets the science. Screw to the science, we're all in the fantasy now. So Yoda and R2 head to a mysterious planet surrounded by gases that block scanners.
Speaker: And something else takes over the ship's guidance. Mm-hmm. So, once they get down there, um Yoda leaves R2 behind and descends below the surface through one of the big ol' sky beams shooting up from the ground.
Speaker: Yep, yep. and lo And Yoda leaves his lightsaber behind with R2. Which I feel is like... Again, it's a great callback to Empire, where, like,
Speaker: Leave your weapons. and You take what you break in with you. Yes. Yes. once ah once he does it Once he descends down the sky beam, a light orb arrives.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And a mysterious being says that Yoda's late. They expected him to have shown up long ago because they watch all who are strong in the Force.
Speaker: Yes, yes, this being ah leads Yoda into a room where there are a a number of other beings, these masked and cloaked individuals who apparently are not in agreement on matters about whether Yoda should be here or not.
Speaker: As they argue among each other... The fourth pieces are fascinating. I love the design. It's simplistic, but again, those masks are evocative. It gives very much like...
Speaker: It goes back to classic, like some of them have that classic sort of comedy and and tragedy mask from regular European figure, but also has like kabuki inspirations from Japan.
Speaker: and Yes, yes. Each of the masks are expressing a particular emotion. But they're it's never made clear whether they are aspects of one being split apart or separate beings of a similar mindset.
Speaker: and Ultimately... It's a little of both. Yeah. But yes, ultimately, Yoda responds to much of their bickering by saying, understand, I did not.
Speaker: Which I just find very, very funny coming from him of all characters, given how he's he's typically on the other end of that particular dynamic. Yeah. ah yeah that yeah it For once, we're seeing Yoda learning something, and that's a major contradiction in what makes it so fascinating.
Speaker: Yes. These beings eventually explain that this is the birthplace of midichlorians. And a... A segment of the audience screams and boos because they they just, as soon as the word midichlorian was spoken in The Phantom Menace, they hated it and everything that had to do with midichlorians. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Now, I do wonder what what exactly that means to be the birthplace of midichlorians, because as I understood it, midichlorians came off as based basically like ah equivalent to the mitochondria, something that shows up in cells that powers them.
Speaker: And so they would basically be microscopic creatures that would presumably, you know, reproduce within creatures. And so this being the birthplace could be where those microscopic creatures originally came to be But that wouldn't imply that they need to keep being made here to then go out into the rest of the galaxy.
Speaker: This is just where they originally came from. so the The vibe of this place is definitely where this is where they all come from. You are correct in your etymology of, yes, the midichlorians are basically the fourth version of the mitochondria. Now, given that they never name given that they never went into painstaking detail on exactly how the midichlorians facilitated use of the force if they did or what have you.
Speaker: Here's my personal headcanon, if you will. So Qui-Gon explains to Anakin in Phantom Menace that the midichlorians are the reason people can use the force.
Speaker: I think he was incorrect. I think that is what he believes, and it is a certain school of thought, But I believe that midichlorians are, to draw a crude analogy, they are attracted to the Force like moths to to light.
Speaker: And that's kind of the more prevailing... But they that can still be used as a quantitative measure of an individual's force potential, force sensitivity, because the higher concentration of midichlorians their blood, the stronger the the potentials spigot, the spigot of the force, if you will, ah is in that person. So they're a brighter light that draws more midichlorians to them. So they will have a higher count of midichlorians. Whereas a person with less force potential will draw fewer midichlorians to them. and There will be fewer in their blood.
Speaker: It still serves as a quantitative test. Yes, but I do have something that with that. From one of my favorite authors in current Star Wars canon, Charles Soule.
Speaker: ah He wrote ah The Rise of Kylo Ren. And in it, Luke has a discussion about the nature of the Force that I just find Some people have a foot in the door.
Speaker: Some people have the door closed. Some doors are flung open. And that's the nature of sort of your force sensitivity.
Speaker: And i've the reason I use spigot is I could have sworn that this is also an analogy that Charles Sewell made, but it might have been one that Alex and Molly Damon made on Star Wars Explained once, that if you if you take a hose,
Speaker: you some people's ability to use the Force is kind of like a hose. some of them only have a small hose or a small nozzle on the hose so they can maybe, you know, use the force a little. And some basically are like a fire hose a and can channel a larger volume through them. So...
Speaker: You know, it's... Similarly, the idea is that the force is... Again, the force is in every living being. Yes. But not every... What we call force sensitivity is just you have more ability to channel and use that.
Speaker: But there's the force is in luck, is in gambling, is in every calculation. It's all in you as a human, as a being in the galaxy.
Speaker: So some are able to use that in a more concrete way. Yeah. I'm just thinking about the idea of the midichlorians having a singular birthplace.
Speaker: it's ah It gives me sort of an element of like, this is where midichlorians evolved. Yeah. And then I see two different possibilities after that.
Speaker: these are Either every other creature, every other biological being within the Star Wars universe... can trace its existence back to this particular planet because they all have midichlorians in them, so they must have all evolved from creatures that had midichlorians, or the midichlorians can somehow enter into other biological life, in which case... And that has some basis in a means.
Speaker: The Force is, like, we haven't gotten to them we've discussed the pergol in our rpg games space whales that are able to hyperspace jump yes that is canonically based off of both ah science and how they how they are able to convert certain things but also is an ability in the force and so it's possible that The midichlorians could migrate and, as an entity, enter into the bloodstream of the universe's populace.
Speaker: Alright, alright. So this probably... it's This is probably not the origin of all life in general. This is because the midichlorians are migratory.
Speaker: But this does imply a time in the universe in which not all things were connected to the Force. Or at least not as connected to the Force, anyway.
Speaker: Which is, of again, a concept that we sort of explore in i me and Robert's game. Yeah, that was one of our early discussions about, like, the nature of the Force. and But, again, there's multiple schools of thought...
Speaker: And like this whole trilogy is, it leaves more questions than answers. But that's kind of the fun. it allows you to conjure and think ideas.
Speaker: and Yes. But Yoda is told at this point that he must face his evil, his fear, on an existential island and defeat it to be able to learn to retain his consciousness after death.
Speaker: And he is, so he is but this is the cockiest I've seen, Yon. So he heads to the island where he encounters a shadowy golem-like version of himself is the best way I can think of to describe it.
Speaker: Yes. And after a fight, he acknowledges that it's his dark side and he controls and conquers it. Yep, very samurai-jack of him.
Speaker: Also, and he gets his little green buck whooped by his little gull himself. He goes through it. He does.
Speaker: but He does have that moment. like He went in there saying, like I have no dark side. I've conquered that. No. He has to accept that it exists in him.
Speaker: Again, a great metaphor about you can't defeat your dark side it's in you there's always a capacity of the dark side the more powerful you become the more powerful that also is but the power that's contained it isn't fighting it it's serenity And that masked mystery being describes the little the little Gollum as a reflection of the hubris in Yoda's soul.
Speaker: Again, that's why I mentioned he was so cocky going into there. It's like, I have a Jedi Master. I don't have... Again, like, we'll especially get to this when we eventually touch upon the sequel trilogy. But when people say, like,
Speaker: Oh, X character. Why do they struggle? it's like, Pro Yoda struggled. I'm going to jump franchises here for a second. Why do we fall down?
Speaker: So we can learn to pick ourselves up. But next, he's tasked with passing through a valley without giving in to emotion or attachment. Yes, yes. The Valley of Extinction.
Speaker: This is when these pleasant name. Yeah. this is This is when the masked entities ah basically list off their representations. They go confusion, anger, sadness, joy, serenity.
Speaker: that is That is what these masked individuals embody, it would seem. Again, it's it's it's still it's... And we don't get the answer in this episode, but...
Speaker: Are they a singular being split out, or are they a group of beings sharing the mind? Both. It is ambiguous, but it's meant to make us think.
Speaker: Yoda then sees a vision of dead Jedi, including Ahsoka, in the temple. Yes, the Sith did it. She showed up it in the episode.
Speaker: She showed up in the season. yeah there she is. Yay. But yes, Yoda then accepts help from a girl who shows a world without war.
Speaker: With it, Manly, I will say that I'll call it out that they they were just reusing one of the character models from the from the Youngling episode last season. Yep. And then he's tempted by a vision of the Jedi in peace, including Dooku still being a Jedi and a still living Qui-Gon where the war has never happened.
Speaker: in And again, like seized seeing Jedi Dooku was like surreal. Yeah. Especially since up to this point in the canon, we have not seen Dooku pre-fall.
Speaker: a So this is a massive league this is what Yoda remembers of his again his former Padawan.
Speaker: and
Speaker: And Yoda then sees through the vision and succeeds in the test. Yes. And he asks to see the mysterious masked figure's face, and she takes off her mask to reveal a bright light, and then her robes crumple to the ground empty. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And then the beings task him with going to Moraband, the home of the Sith, to face all that haunts him. Yes, we are promised the ultimate test, ultimate seduction.
Speaker: Ooh, saucy. Ultimate Seduction. I thought this was a kids' show. Yeah. Well, it's on Netflix at this point. Oh, yeah, yeah, they can do anything.
Speaker: there you go. I mean, imagine if it went to HBO.
Speaker: It'd probably end on Satisfactory 3. but thus Yeah, yo Yoda would never fall to such seduction. But wow, is there a lot of that that is like interesting, fascinating, kind of what the hell and amazing episode.
Speaker: isn it And it takes us to the next episode, the conclusion of this story arc. And the end of the Clone Wars.
Speaker: yeah Again. Again. Sacrifice, Season 6, Episode 13. Yoda faces the evil of the Sith. Yes, yes, Yoda arrives to the planet, and once again, he is leaving R2 behind, so R2 doesn't get to be a character in this episode, unfortunately. But he's still fulfilling his potential purpose, if we're to believe the original idea that it's all supposed to be R2's story.
Speaker: Yes. But yes, Yoda continues into the planet, at which point a bunch of snakes combine. They are Sith, and they express immense nihilism.
Speaker: And he's faced with those spectral Sith who claim that there's nothing after death, and that his fear is what feeds them. and And for the first time in Yoda's vision quest, we cut Elsewhere.
Speaker: And a tactical droid tells Dooku that he's being summoned to Coruscant. Yep. Now, before before we get to what you're saying, and Lauren, this is our first on-screen appearance of canon version of a world that's been known well in Legends, Korriban.
Speaker: But that now renamed Moriband and in canon says, like, it goes by many names. and But It is a one to one recreation of what we've all imagined Korriban being a dark red world of tombs and
Speaker: tombs and temples and imposing statues. It's everything that we wanted from seeing this place brought back into into canon from Legends. it's It's haunting and beautiful, terrifying, and just deliciously dark side.
Speaker: I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. i love it and Yes. Yoda proceeds and he enters a temple with his lightsaber in hand.
Speaker: Let's have a temple, more of a tomb. well yes. It is the tomb of Darth Bane. Yes.
Speaker: And inside, Yoda encounters the spirit of Darth Bane, who created the Sith Rule of Two. And the voice actor, Mark Hamill.
Speaker: And let me just say, i prefer this design of Darth Bane to the one with like the coral mask and stuff. I almost thought that was lame. This is Darth Bane.
Speaker: This sort of pseudo-samurai. Look, that's so cool. And Yoda walks past Bane, saying that he doesn't fear him because Bane doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker: Yep. Because again, the Sith's search for amount immortality is different from Yoda's search for immortality. They seek physical, in the present body, immortality.
Speaker: so and so <unk>s He's a ghost. he's a He's basically a haunted spirit haunting his tomb. But that's all he is. remnant.
Speaker: A thing that cannot harm Yoda. So what you're saying is that Bill Murray or Finn Wolfhard could defeat Darth Bane.
Speaker: Yes. This Darth Bane. Because, know, who you gonna call?
Speaker: The priestesses from the last episode appear to give Yoda a warning. He's passed all their trials, but they don't control the next task. The next chamber is where the Sith sacrifice Jedi, and he'll find the Sith of his time there.
Speaker: Yes, Yoda is entering absolute darkness. Now at this point we cut back to to Count Dooku, aka Darth Tyrannus, meeting up with his master. And Dooku also has a new fit this time.
Speaker: ah yes. it's It's called his ritual outfit in Star Wars Battlefront II as his costume. And it's the only time he ever wears this.
Speaker: And Sidious and Dooku perform a ritual to appear before Yoda as someone one he trusts. And they are using some so real arcane magic stuff.
Speaker: Like Dooku has to cut its can get blood drawn. They're putting lightning into into a cauldron. It's very Macbeth witches style. Yes.
Speaker: And back on Moraband, Yoda finds Sifo-Dyas imprisoned and Sifo-Dyas is begging him for help and offers to reveal the identity of the Sith Lord if Yoda frees him.
Speaker: So we now have even more connective tissue back to the previous storyline. But then Sifo-Dyas transforms into Sidious and then Yoda finds himself on a transport with clone troopers and Anakin pursuing Dooku after having been summoned back to Coruscant.
Speaker: Yes, yes. yo Yoda is very confused about all of this. He's like, wait, when did this happen? How did I get here? i was... i was that that that's not That's not how Yoda talks.
Speaker: He's like, happened when did this? hear how did get here? Tripping, I was. Tripping, I was. Tripping, I was. Ketamine I was on.
Speaker: Alimony I will not pay.
Speaker: Bad trip this is. Also, Rex is here now? ah Yeah, Rex is here now. yes And they all then go in and they've apparently found Sidious' lair on Coruscant and they're attacking it and Anakin beheads Dooku.
Speaker: Yes, Yoda is showing his illiterary devices. And Yoda's like, what no, and that that happens, but Yoda's more focused on the mysterious hooded man.
Speaker: Yes, yes. And so Yoda duels Sidious, joined by Anakin. And again, it This was the final episodes that they were given, so maximum budget was given. to This duel is sick.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Yoda is... you It goes back and forth. Anakin gets injured. um And Yoda's willing to sacrifice himself to save Anakin at the expense of taking Sidious out.
Speaker: I do love the the moment where he's he has Sidious, but Sidious disappears. and it's just It feels so and it' says it interesting like that he sacrificed knowledge for Anakin in this moment.
Speaker: And that sacrifice, or that willingness to sacrifice, is what ends the trial. And the priestess tells him that Qui-Gon will train him and that there is another Skywalker.
Speaker: As we hear strains of the Imperial March and Vader's breathing. Foreshadowing is a literary device. And then we get our closing lines.
Speaker: The council has assembled. They are eager to hear your report. Afraid. Not much there is to say of my journey.
Speaker: So, nothing significant happened to you out there? Yes. And no. To the end, we are coming now. Did your journey give you insight on how to win the war?
Speaker: No longer certain that one ever does win a war, I am. For in fighting the battles, the bloodshed, already lost we have. Yet, open to us, a path remains.
Speaker: That unknown for the Sith is. Through this path, victory we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars, but victory for all time.
Speaker: And there's Clone Wars finale number two of three. Collect them all. All right. So I guess ah I have a couple things to note as we're at the end of these episodes. First of all, when did Anakin slash Vader do any of this? Or Obi-Wan, for that matter? Or or even Luke?
Speaker: ah You know, this is... ah notable in that all of these characters we see the show up as Force ghosts at one point or another, and I'm not sure when some of these characters were would have gone through this journey, or if they did, necessarily.
Speaker: we We have an answer for one... I have an answer... We have a definitive on-screen answer for one of those. For the other one, we can assume...
Speaker: the other, you are correct, in E-I-Anig and Vader. We do not know how that works.
Speaker: Right. But, yeah, we we do know at the end, since it's live action, we're unlikely to go through a rewatch of it with you. Unless you want to. I like the series, but So I will spoil the end of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series for you.
Speaker: It's not the whole thing. Yeah. but yeah Yeah. After having his own crisis of faith at the beginning of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series on Disney Plus, he Obi-Wan returns to Tatooine.
Speaker: He's watching over young Luke again. And ah quite at the beginning of the series, he had been trying to commune with Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon was never communicating with him. And at the end of the series, Qui-Gon appears before him and basically tells him, okay, now you're in the right headspace. and I can teach you what you need to know.
Speaker: And it is Liam Neeson coming back again. which was Yes, it is. It is a ghosty Liam Neeson appearing in front of Obi-Wan. Love it. But yeah, ah the the ultimate, ultimately the reason why ask those questions is because this feels like this is probably a journey worth viewing for a number of characters, as it could reveal a great deal of characterization.
Speaker: But at the same time, i don't feel like much of substance was learned about Yoda here. His dark side was pretty generically violent and more just saying that he was a part of Yoda rather than revealing any particular darkness within. And most other challenges relate more to the immediate situation of the Clone Wars and Yoda seeking out the identity of Sidious rather than any deeper, inherent, fundamental issues.
Speaker: ah But I feel like the potential for character exploration is great here. oh this I agree of you. The reason I feel this works is it's less of...
Speaker: Yoda isn't learning about himself. He's learning about the nature of the Jedi and their failings. His as the head of the council, he is learning that he has a dark side and had to grapple with that, even though he went in saying dark side, I have not.
Speaker: Yes, he does. And his he's plagued with fears and contradictions. Again, it comes back to those final lines about, I don't feel that war has a winner.
Speaker: In fact, if we're fighting it is us losing. Which kind of leads him to the point that he's at in The Empire Strikes Back, where, you know, not knowing that he's talking to Yoda, Luke is telling him that, you know, he's he's looking for a great warrior, and Yoda's response is, wars not make one great. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: ah but yeah, there, there's a lot more layers than just a, you, I see what you're saying about this could be a great character exploration, but as a condemnation of what the Jedi are and what they're supposed to be, this is Yoda becoming the Yoda from the prequel trilogy, which I've always had a problem with like, or from the original trilogy for the,
Speaker: Yoda from the prequels trilogy and becoming Yoda that I knew. okay His wisdom was not about the Force, its power.
Speaker: Him having a lightsaber always bothered me when I saw it in Attack the Clones. This feels like bringing that full circle.
Speaker: Yes. to make, and again about, and also acknowledging again, that though a major theme of the entirety of the Clone Wars, the Jedi have fallen, and they've lost their way.
Speaker: This is a spiritual journey, not just a character one, but a spiritual journey for the Jedi. And while a story like this has not been documented that I'm aware of anyway,
Speaker: I also get the feeling that this is this set of episodes is another one kind of like Mortis where Lucas called... Filoni into his office and said okay so we're gonna explain why some Jedi disappear when they die and some don't and it's gonna be really psychedelic and ah we're gonna trip balls again why you it and why Yoda's Very different. you get Like, prequel Yoda and Empire Yoda are different characters. And I believed that for a long time until this arc.
Speaker: Yeah, you know, I guess ah this this acting as the bridge between original trilogy Yoda and prequel trilogy Yoda, know, it makes sense that there would be a sequence of events there that would cause Yoda to have his character development.
Speaker: But at the same time, like i see that obviously Yoda's discussions at the end do indicate that he has had that character development, so now he has become more so original old trilogy Yoda.
Speaker: I'm just not entirely seeing how this sequence of events led to him having that character development exactly. I'll also say that this is the...
Speaker: Again, we still have to see Revenge of the Sith. And there is a significant character development in that. a To the point where I say, like, Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones Yoda are different from Revenge of the Sith and Empire Strikes Back Yoda.
Speaker: Those are... But I can see the bridge to getting us there in these episodes. Yeah. And I, part of me also wonders, we we know that... Yeah, also remember these episodes were written post Revenge of the Sith. So yes these are... I get out.
Speaker: And i'll I'll say this honestly, especially in light of the fact that AO3 is completely destroyed right now. Who knew? I don't know what a hack. It was like, The Clone Wars is basically a fixed fix fic.
Speaker: yeah and out of that i always I'll go down and say that it's literally a fixed fix for the entirety of the prequel trilogy. Get mad about that at all, Star Wars fans. It's true.
Speaker: Search your feelings. You know it to be true. and Part of me wonders, too, is we know that the Lost Missions season know season six were kind of a not real Afterthought isn't the right word. and it was it was It was like they were given a chance to end the series. It was their Hail Mary pass. They were given a chance to end the series and they were given a chance to end the series with roughly half the number of episodes that a full season typically had. yeah and i wanted to be so so What i wonder they that were never filmed before.
Speaker: what i wonder is we know that they had other arcs that were never filmed but were adapted into other media.
Speaker: And we know that those arcs had a certain number of episodes that were more than three. And I wonder if this was originally meant to be a little more fleshed out to provide that kind of of thing that you feel was missing from the journey, Lauren, that...
Speaker: due to head and death space constraints, had to get excised out. I see. Now again, I feel that there are that I think we might need to do do an episode about those like animatics that we have of the episodes that were behind the scenes lore. There were more... as it There was supposed to be a full season six episode That they had like.
Speaker: Voice acted and. Basic animatics for. a Some of those were adapted. Into season seven. Some of them weren't.
Speaker: Some of them were changed. And adapted into season seven. One of them is. The infamous. Boba Fett episode. Which itself.
Speaker: We only have a scene. The ending scene of. Animatic wise. voice acted entirely. But no other parts of the episode, which is itself it's supposed to be like a three episode but arc. But for for instance, one of the arcs that was supposed to be there was ah two characters that you've met in Clone Wars. A...
Speaker: Quinlan Vos-Asajj Ventress arc. that And that was supposed to be like... at one point it was going to be like eight episodes. Oh, wow. like it It could have been a season of its own.
Speaker: yeah um And it was later adapted into the current canon novel Dark Disciple. I see. Which is really good.
Speaker: And it is that novel, based on what we see of Asajj Ventress in an appearance in The Bad Batch and Tales of the Underworld, is considered canon.
Speaker: Well, all right. um you know the The novels are back on shaky ground. yeah when when we When they made the first changeover after the Disney buyout, all of the ancillary media was just as firmly canonical as TV and movies. yeah But that's on a lot shakier ground these days. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: it's It's less shakier than the the the old... the old it's not it Yeah, it's not as shaky as as it was in the pre-Disney days, but there are some things that have been directly contradicted in TV and movie that had been previously established in print.
Speaker: yeah But I'll say in terms of actively major retcons... massively like major recons ah Han Solo did not betray Lando like 80 billion times before he met him on Final City.
Speaker: Yet. It's not a suspect too.
Speaker: Gotcha. It used to be like every time Lando and Han met, it's like you betrayed me that one time. It's like that one time. It's like it's a running tally now.
Speaker: The next offer's gonna do that again, Lando. Yeah, ultimately i think that seeing Vader and Luke go through this could be interesting as a like a character exploration sort of thing.
Speaker: Oh, you know you know Nick? Nick, you know who needs to write the Vader one?
Speaker: We've said his name already on the show. Charles Soule should write the Vader one. Oh, Charles. Actually... Charles Soule is my favorite Star Wars offer.
Speaker: So i would I would be willing to give a pass to some of the ancillary media now that I think of it on on that point, Lauren. While we did not see Vader go through this exact type of learning, the final arc of Charles Soule's run on the Darth Vader comic did have kind of a soul-searching element to it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Along with these same lines. Which you could argue he learned something from that. yeah Because what... Spoiler alert, anyone listening.
Speaker: um what he What we discover in that storyline is that Vader's castle looks like it does. And... and is where it's at on Mustafar because there is a similar vergence of the force like the dark side gave on Dagobah.
Speaker: It's where Vader actually ah corrupts and bleeds his the crystal that becomes his lightsaber crystal. And the the reason he built it there is he wants to channel that energy to bring Padme back to life.
Speaker: And while he's trying to accomplish this, he does have his own sort of you personal vision quest.
Speaker: Kind of thing. see That he undergoes. And there's even some really cool imagery. Where you see. Like a. An astral version of him. That it's kind of featureless. But his.
Speaker: Torso. Head. And like. It's scarred. It's broken. It's scarred. And and it's all it's all dark and black. And then where his.
Speaker: limbs that were cut off are are represented by light by you know like the force basically so he it and it's even really cool imagery and i would love to see it animated yeah like honestly if we could do an episode about the child soul dark vader comic that'd be fun because they Charles Sowell in general is one of my favorite authors.
Speaker: I ran into him at Oktoberfest like three years ago. And he he trolled me basically. like I'll truncate the story. I went to Oktoberfest with some friends. It's like...
Speaker: I was talking to a friend about like, oh, I'm so excited about the next Star Wars project, which was going to be a the rise ah of Kylo Ren. It's like, oh, yeah, a big fan of Wars Soul, yeah. was like, yeah. ah And talking about the comics, I'm a big Star Wars fan. It's like, cool, I'm a big Star Wars fan. And he just flashed his wallet at me.
Speaker: Nice. A a a eight wallet with like the imperative It was simple on it. Mm-hmm. Flash it at me. And it was like Charles Sault.
Speaker: And then he ran away. And I was like, that's Charles Sault. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But yeah, we, so we might have seen Vader's version of it. And i I would absolutely be interested in seeing like you, Lauren, I'd be interested in seeing the story of Luke going through that kind of thing, presumably on Octo.
Speaker: Yeah. During, during his own exile. Yeah. well he Yeah. You know about Octo, but the, We'll get into that once we get into events of the sequel trilogy. There's a whole lot of interesting... the The force has been sort of given more nuance.
Speaker: The idea of... I do love how it can confirm like one of the major conflicts that has always existed. The Sith want material immortality...
Speaker: Versus the idea of spiritual immortality. Which I find to be so fascinating. But yet that that brings us to
Speaker: this version of the end of the Clone Wars. Yep, again, i wait where we there we're two out of three. Yeah. with Two out of three. The more I think about it, technically two out of four if you consider the micro series. Yes. No, no, the micro series didn't end the Clone Wars.
Speaker: Yeah, the micro series did have an ending. It did have an ending, but it goes right in... Yeah. right That's the end of the Clone Wars.
Speaker: But, you know, Ed, given how many times it has it has ended and come back, I am certain that the Clone Wars will return in Avengers Doomsday.
Speaker: Oh, no, but now it's going to be Spider-Man that gets cloned. Oh, no. no, no, We are not. We're not. It's not Doomsday. It's the Clone Saga. No.
Speaker: Tell him it. No.
Speaker: Oh, God. What if that's the next movie? yeah No, it's the black suit. they Why is there a dissy voice? If you're not going to do the black suit, you're going to do it now.
Speaker: Yeah. Anyway, that's it. That's the end of the episode, everybody. Oh, that that's horrifying. That's horrifying. What do we not do? well all i know you listen to the podcast.
Speaker: so Don't do it. I'm bailing now. I'm going to say thanks for joining us for Casual Nerdity. If you're enjoying the show, despite the horror that... that Lauren just unleashed upon the world. um There are a few ways to support us. leaving a Leaving a good review on your podcast platform of choice helps more listeners find us. And if you're listening through YouTube, don't forget to like and subscribe because those algorithms need their fuel.
Speaker: don and you can also support the... You can also support the show directly by grabbing a t-shirt from our merch store at store.casualnerdity.com. And of course, come hang out with us on social media. We're Casual Nerdity, all one word, on Facebook, Instagram, threads, and Twitter slash X, and casualnerdity.com on Blue Sky. So until next time, may the force guide you, preferably with fewer creepy visions.
Speaker: Bye-bye! So long! Bye-bye! This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.
