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Money in Marriage: How to Talk About What Really Matters
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In this episode of the Intentional Living FP Podcast, financial planners Jim Crider and Cade Grimm explore how money shapes marriage—not just through budgets, but through communication. Money isn’t only about math; it’s a language that reveals what you value most.
Jim and Cade unpack how financial stress, hidden spending, and misaligned priorities can quietly erode trust—but also how intentional conversations about money can strengthen connection, clarity, and peace. You’ll hear real-life stories of couples who turned conflict into understanding, and learn why regular financial communication makes couples 20–25% less likely to divorce.
They also challenge the comparison culture fueled by social media and offer a healthier perspective: you can have anything, but you can’t have everything.
If you’ve ever felt tension around money in your relationship, this episode will help you align your time, finances, and values—so your money story becomes one of teamwork, purpose, and intentional living.
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Transcript
Intro
Defining Money's Role
00:00:11
Jim Crider
right, Cade, so in our last conversation, you and i started digging into just our our working definition of money. And again, just to restate that money is a means of of communicating, storing and transferring value across space and time.
Communication in Finance
00:00:28
Jim Crider
So I think it makes sense for us camp on the communication side of things for a bit today. And think that that's important, yeah even even from like the flow of how we work with clients and that aside, how I got in this industry, like that it
Personal Finance Stories
00:00:45
Jim Crider
it starts with this side of things.
00:00:45
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:00:46
Jim Crider
Like personally, like when I was in my mid twenties, I went through a phase of unemployment, trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up. And Kendra, she was working at that time and had a steady job. And I was sort of going from job to job, trying to figure these things out. And finally it led to a decent stint of unemployment.
00:01:07
Jim Crider
And after several months of that, I started thinking about financial stress. Now, fortunately, again, that was pre kids, and Kendra was working, so we weren't terribly impoverished.
00:01:19
Jim Crider
But you know, money stress is real. And I started thinking about how money is one of the top causes of divorce year over year.
00:01:22
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:01:26
Jim Crider
And it's the top causes of personal stress and suicide. And if I could help people have better conversations about their money and then do a better job of taking inventory about what's important to them and finally actually use their money for what's important to them.
Money and Relationships
00:01:43
Jim Crider
That'd be a great job. That was before I knew what a certified financial planner is or a financial planning firm. I literally just knew I would like to facilitate those conversations and help people be better with their money. And that's what got me going in this industry.
00:01:53
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:01:54
Jim Crider
So I think it'd be fun to go into that today the communication side of things, the relationship side of things, not not just your relationship with your money, but your relationship with others and how that how money fits into that.
00:02:07
Cade Grimm
Yeah, think that'd be good. it's It's a incredibly valuable to just have an understanding of of how money communicates and then just communication in general. Like you said, its it is consistently one of the top reasons for divorce.
00:02:22
Cade Grimm
Even if even if if a marriage is doesn't go to the place of of divorce, but I think there's a lot of conflict that arises from money and not not not having healthy conversations about it.
00:02:38
Cade Grimm
So yeah, I think that'd be great.
00:02:41
Jim Crider
Sweet. Well, man, this could go so many directions.
Financial Stress and Well-being
00:02:46
Jim Crider
i wrote down some statistics. I've known these as more like anecdotal. Like, think it was like 68% of stat statistics were made up on the spot.
00:02:55
Jim Crider
And I definitely, yeah, 100% of Cade's statistics were made up on the spot.
00:02:55
Cade Grimm
100% of mine.
00:03:02
Jim Crider
And that's real. that's that's now we're down to 99% them. Yeah. percent of them i've i've I've known roughly the statistics regarding like money and personal stress and financial stress, but I went ahead and dug in a little bit further to see like you know actual numbers by who's you know the different studies. And like when we say financial stress, like what does that mean? Is that because of unemployment? Is that because of net worth?
00:03:26
Jim Crider
Is it because of debt? So I have some interesting stats that I'll probably sprinkle into this conversation. My brain's not sticky enough to like remember these, so I wrote them down. So...
00:03:35
Cade Grimm
I did.
00:03:35
Jim Crider
Yeah, I'll probably pull some of those in.
00:03:36
Cade Grimm
i've I've got a few too.
00:03:41
Jim Crider
Nice. Well, I'm excited to go there. i'll
00:03:45
Jim Crider
Let's start off with this. you alluded to this, and i almost wanted to get in this conversation in our last and our last talk, but decided to hold off because it was more, don't know, specific to this, is...
Financial Decisions and Communication
00:03:59
Jim Crider
conversation amongst spouses with what you value. So again, money can be such a sticking point, relationally because it does communicate what you value in life.
00:04:03
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:04:12
Jim Crider
And of course someone might say, well, yeah, it's easy for you to say it's like you have, you know your privilege, you have the opportunity to communicate what you value and take your kids on a vacation. i don't even have that privilege. was like, well,
00:04:25
Jim Crider
maybe you don't have the means of going to Italy, but you have the means of doing something or you could just like, if you could, you could go on this trip or feed your family, you know, obviously like, kind so Kendra, I'm trying to think through, so Kendra in college, her parents would give her money for, groceries and, and her best friend, her name's Bonnie.
00:04:46
Jim Crider
So Bonnie and Kendra would have grocery money and, I can't remember if was a weekly or monthly basis, but I would always catch them just eating grapes, living off of grapes and goldfish.
00:05:00
Jim Crider
and it's because they would get there their grocery money and they would immediately go and buy clothes.
00:05:01
Cade Grimm
Hmm. Hmm.
00:05:06
Jim Crider
So for them, they're communicating through the way that they spent their money was that clothes was more important than a healthy, nutritious diet. So I say all this to go back and I'm not trying to, don't know if I'm using this word right. It's sort of a Gen Z word.
00:05:20
Jim Crider
No offense to
Aligning Financial Values
00:05:20
Jim Crider
anyone out there. Like gaslighting. Maybe I'm gaslighting right here. But yeah, like everyone makes decisions and trade-offs. Like you say, well, I don't have that much to choose between a vacation versus
00:05:32
Jim Crider
new car. I'm just trying to survive. Well, the way that you're using your money is signaling to me that survival is more important than a fancy new car. Of course, we look at like, you know, Maslow's hierarchy needs.
00:05:42
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45
Jim Crider
It's like, all right, shelter, food, these sorts of things are probably more important than a fancier new car. And you're communicating that. So again, that even establishes the point further. And of course you can go further up. It's like, I have all my needs covered. And now it's a matter of, do I get a Corvette or do I get, go on this fancy vacation? Again, that's a, that's communication point.
00:06:03
Jim Crider
Anyways, so money's a means of communicating and that could be communicating like, man, it's important that we're healthy and have a roof overhead. And then you have that taken care of. And it's, it's, it's important that we have more time later on. So i'm going to save for retirement or it's more important that we go on this trip because I want to spend time with my family now. So therefore I will save on that.
00:06:21
Jim Crider
So we've seen a lot of these things. And again, so it's, it's communicating what you value and and largely,
00:06:30
Jim Crider
I don't know. People often say that they value something, but then the way that their calendars and their checkbooks look does not reflect that.
00:06:41
Jim Crider
That can lead to a lot of frustration.
00:06:42
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:06:43
Jim Crider
You know, that that can lead to duplicity or, I don't know, could be appearing, maybe you're trying, to maybe you're lying, maybe you're covering something up. Maybe you're not being honest with yourself or others, or maybe you're just not being intentional.
00:06:58
Jim Crider
I think a lot of people are well and tended, but don't actually follow through because there again, as I mentioned, our last conversation, they're living more in a reactionary state versus thinking this is important to me.
00:07:12
Jim Crider
So therefore I need to use my time and my resources to reflect that versus just responding regularly. Does sense?
00:07:20
Cade Grimm
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, too, it's it's just once you recognize that, like you said, your calendar and your checkbook are our means of communicating what's important to you beyond just like what what do you say? What do you actually communicate with your mouth?
00:07:38
Cade Grimm
And having what I alluded to in in the and the last conversation was, I think i think oftentimes the the scenario might be that both spouses share the same value and and and the way they're trying to communicate with what is important to them is just being done in what appears to be an opposite way. So they think they're enemies or they think they disagree on what they're trying to do. But in reality, they're trying to do the same thing.
00:08:10
Cade Grimm
They're just communicating it in a different way. And like i the example I used was they, uh, both share the value that they want to spend more time with family.
Preventing Financial Conflict
00:08:20
Cade Grimm
Maybe they've never had this conversation and likely they've never had this conversation between the two of them or that it wouldn't be a source of conflict, but they both share the same value of wanting to spend more time with family.
00:08:31
Cade Grimm
It's just that one of them is... putting more resources into that right now by you know going out to eat more and and spending money today on that. The other is approaching it more from let's save as much as we can so that we can do incredible things as a family later on.
00:08:48
Cade Grimm
Without proper communication and taking a a having a pause to understand what you're both actually trying to do, it does. It looks like one of you is spinning our financial future into the grave and the other doesn't care about quality time. All they're thinking about is the future. But the really, they're both wanting the same thing. They're just approaching it from a different direction.
00:09:11
Cade Grimm
perspective. So that's where that healthy communication about what are we ultimately trying to accomplish here and what matters helps to find that balance.
00:09:12
Jim Crider
Yeah.
00:09:18
Cade Grimm
And hey, after all, we're not enemies. We're both trying to do the same thing here.
00:09:21
Jim Crider
Yeah. And of course, you know, that especially if it's not communicated well, that could bring up maybe that maybe the spouse who is more frugal currently to delaying gratifications again more time later on.
00:09:34
Jim Crider
maybe they're using Maybe they're viewing the other spouse, the spendthrift, spendthriifft on as being wasteful and jeopardizing their financial future. So again, you need have a conversation about what's important to us, but then also discussing the opportunity costs.
00:09:44
Cade Grimm
Right. hmm.
00:09:49
Jim Crider
you know its I'm not saying that, well, gosh, if you value time with your family, you should just use all your resources for family now. Maybe that is jeopardizing your future family's sake. And there's a lot of really interesting studies there of how we how we consider like our future planning selves.
00:10:04
Jim Crider
But again, going through that values, goals, decisions, actions, framework is is talking through with with your spouse, the people around you. Here's what's important to me.
00:10:14
Jim Crider
We need start with establishing that. And what do you see as a blind spots here? Again, if if if maybe they're uncomfortable with it because they still understand what you're saying you value, but maybe they're uncomfortable rightly so.
00:10:26
Jim Crider
It's like, hey, I enjoy spending time with you as well.
00:10:28
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:10:28
Jim Crider
But if we spend all of our money on on and Kendra and Bonnie's sake on clothes and shopping together, then in two weeks, we're going to be out of grocery money. And that's, that
Case Studies in Financial Misalignment
00:10:39
Jim Crider
gets really bad.
00:10:40
Jim Crider
So maybe they, they both value the same thing, but also in a practical manner, understanding the implications of spending all your, all your, you know, grocery money on, on clothes for, for a couple of weeks than your toast for the, maybe just eating toast for the next few weeks.
00:10:53
Jim Crider
I have a really, yeah i have i' have a good story about this.
00:10:54
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:10:56
Jim Crider
It's, it's anecdotal, but I mean, aren't anecdotes like aren't statistics, just a whole, a culmination of a whole lot of anecdotes in a sense. Maybe I'm making that up. I would assume so.
00:11:06
Cade Grimm
Yeah, you might be.
00:11:06
Jim Crider
i mean, that's what's, yeah, don't know.
00:11:08
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:11:08
Jim Crider
Correct me if I'm wrong. I think that's probably how roughly how statistics works. mean, statistics are whole bunch of and individual cases brought together to get a better sample size. Anyways, I like anecdotes because they're at least someone's story.
00:11:18
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:11:21
Jim Crider
And I like to get down to the the people versus just statistics. Anyways, we're gonna get enough statistics today. So let's start off with anecdote because it's really, really interesting. So probably, gosh, probably six, seven years ago, i was sitting down in a meeting. is the first time I met with this couple.
00:11:39
Jim Crider
And they came in my office and didn't know till later on after we had talked for a few hours, what, what, what was really going on behind the scenes. So through our conversation, there's probably two hours I'm sitting in our, in my office talking through their money.
00:11:53
Jim Crider
They were a pretty darn high income family in their mid forties. And you could tell they're sort of at each other's throats and something was going on beneath the waters. That was, there's a lot of tension there.
00:12:08
Jim Crider
And, about halfway through our meeting, it led to tears. And it was as tears of sort of joy slash relief slash just what you would the type type of tears you would expect more of at a counseling session.
00:12:23
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:12:23
Jim Crider
And what I learned after this was that coming and talking to to me and our firm was actually their last ditch effort before divorce. And they had already been to several counselors And in our conversation, we uncovered a lot of stuff that, again, they were they were trying to communicate, but they didn't they weren't drawing the connection between their use of money with what they were trying to communicate. And that really the pieces all came together this conversation.
00:12:52
Jim Crider
And it's sort of inception of a so anecdote inside of an anecdote. This family told me what sort of the the boiling point for all of this was they had a Again, they're pretty high income, youngish family.
00:13:10
Jim Crider
And they decided that they're finally going to splurge to go on a vacation. They never went on vacations before because they were so gung-ho focused on saving for the future. They finally decide they're going on vacation.
00:13:22
Jim Crider
So they took their two young kids to Disney World. there's the four of them at Disney. And few days in, they're both loving it. Both the both the spouses are absolutely loving it.
00:13:33
Jim Crider
You have the husband who who yeah The husband was more the spendy type. So he was loving it and was like, man, I can't believe we've never done this before.
00:13:45
Jim Crider
I want to fully embrace this time and cherish these memories with my wife and my kids. So he was buying all the Mickey Mouse ears and he was going to get like the $40 funnel cake and he was just spending everything, you know, paying for the the the pictures and and all those things.
00:13:57
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:14:01
Jim Crider
And it's because he really enjoyed this moment and didn't want to let it go. He wanted to take full advantage of it. And the wife was frustrated with him because she also was really enjoying this moment.
00:14:13
Jim Crider
And she was thinking, man, I can't believe we've never done this before. This is the best. I want to make sure we can start doing this twice a year. i don't want, i don't want this to be the only time. So she was already while at Disney thinking through, this is the best time with my family.
00:14:29
Jim Crider
Let's do this again in a few months. It's just, she was planning out their next vacation, but then she looks over and she sees her husband spending all their next vacation money on this current vacation. And now she's mad at him because she is so enjoying this.
00:14:39
Cade Grimm
Yep.
00:14:42
Jim Crider
She wants to make more memories of the husband, not knowing the husband's enjoying it so much. that he wants to take full advantage of this memory making opportunity. And in our meeting, this is the first time they actually both realized that.
00:14:50
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:14:52
Jim Crider
And it was, it was amazing. Both were always like, no, i I love spending time with you. I care about you. I love time with our kids as a family. They're just approaching in different ways. And the way that their money was reflecting that, because
Financial Stress and Relationships
00:15:06
Jim Crider
again, money communicates what you value.
00:15:08
Jim Crider
And they are finally taking inventory of that. Like, oh my goodness, I do. I love my family. i love my spouse. I love our kids. And I want my money to communicate that. But even though their their money was communicating in different methods, and because they weren't clear on what they were trying to communicate, it still seemed like they stepping on each other's toes.
00:15:27
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:15:28
Jim Crider
So that was that conversation.
00:15:31
Cade Grimm
They wanted the same thing, you know? but But having healthy conversation and appropriate communication around it was key to them realizing that, hey, just like I said, we're we're not enemies here. We actually want the same thing.
00:15:49
Cade Grimm
that's That's really powerful.
00:15:53
Jim Crider
I guess we can, we can look at some, some statistics right quick. So again, like I first got into personal finance. I, when I first got into finance and stuff, I thought I wanted to go like running a hedge fund route, sit behind in screens and like actively manage investments.
00:16:08
Jim Crider
then I realized that that sounds like a terrible lifestyle and that I love the, the conversations with clients, more so than I would like sitting in a dark room.
00:16:19
Jim Crider
And waking up in the middle of the night to watch the Asian markets open and stuff. I'm glad the direction I went with with my career. but initially, it was it was the month it was the dollars and cents.
00:16:27
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:16:29
Jim Crider
And I realized it was that was a means of of of of funding the lifestyles. Now want to go to LifeWay. So that's, that's where he came about this financial planning. So it was all really stemmed from this desire to help people in the relationships. And a lot of that had to do with marriage.
00:16:46
Jim Crider
So again, our the statistics, that was the anecdote we just told a second to ago. Let's talk through statistics. So, I mean, goodness, let's see here. I, uh,
00:17:04
Jim Crider
let's see, guess one, we can start here. Cause again, the statistics related to, like divorce and money vary based off like category and stuff.
00:17:14
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:17:16
Jim Crider
we'll, we'll, let's start with, mean, let's go in the order I've written them down. So income and related to the divorce, there's one cited by the CDC. It showed that, uh, uh,
00:17:27
Jim Crider
the one of the primary causes of divorce and the primary people like income range that were divorced because of money. It's the bottom, like 20% of income levels.
00:17:42
Jim Crider
And then also the top 1% of income levels. I thought that was really interesting. So as people who live like both below the poverty line, essentially, That's a high divorce situation.
00:17:55
Jim Crider
But then you have this big gap where things are generally pretty good, and it's the top 1% income-wise that also but it resurges again where you have a high divorce rate.
00:18:07
Cade Grimm
Interesting. I feel like that's not one of the statistics I saw, so I could be way off on this, but my just hearing that it's like, man, being in the The bottom tier, more of like the poverty stricken families, like obviously that's incredibly stressful.
00:18:25
Cade Grimm
Even if you're communicating well, living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you're always trying to play catch up, that's incredibly stressful. So can see why, how that could take a toll on a marriage.
00:18:38
Cade Grimm
I feel like really, really effective communication in a situation like that could definitely help. And so there probably wasn't good communication happening.
00:18:47
Cade Grimm
And then the first one i what I think of in the the top 1% is that's probably more of more of a situation where what you're telling me you value and what your checkbook is telling me that you value.
00:19:05
Cade Grimm
That's probably where a lot of conflict comes into those relationships because you have the resources, you have the resources to for your money to communicate a lot of value in other places.
00:19:08
Jim Crider
yeah
00:19:17
Jim Crider
Yeah. can you imagine? It's like, Hey, uh, you, you say that being with me and the kids on the weekends is more important. You have by, by all means you could do that, but you're choosing to work every weekend and miss all the kids games.
00:19:26
Cade Grimm
Hmm.
00:19:29
Jim Crider
And you never take me on a date. Cause you're, you're always picked whenever we do want to do go on a date, you you take every phone call. And you have the resources to say no to that.
00:19:35
Cade Grimm
yeah. Yeah.
00:19:38
Jim Crider
You're not living a like this impoverished lifestyle.
00:19:39
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:19:41
Jim Crider
Yeah. hey It's, I would say it's probably that there is like career demands as you go to that top 1% lifestyle choices.
Financial Values and Actions
00:19:50
Cade Grimm
moving
00:19:50
Jim Crider
Yeah.
00:19:51
Jim Crider
I think it's just a matter of recognizing the trade-offs. And again, when, you know,
00:19:54
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:19:55
Jim Crider
having money introduces opportunities where you have, again, more flexibility for those decisions. Again, we follow that, my my framework, values, goals, decisions, and actions. The more money you have, the more decisions you you have at your exposal. So there's, yeah I think because it sort of points out like, hey, you have the decision here.
00:20:14
Jim Crider
And so I would say it's probably stress induced at the bottom income range.
00:20:18
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:20:19
Jim Crider
And yes, it's also stress induced at the top 1%. But the stressors are, I think that'd be more painful of of the receiving spouse in. It's probably both ways, but it's probably more painful because like, hey, you have a choice here.
00:20:31
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:20:33
Jim Crider
and
00:20:33
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:20:34
Jim Crider
You are deliberately choosing two Use your money in a way that reflects that we are actually not important despite what you're saying here.
00:20:43
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:20:43
Jim Crider
So, and I think you see that a lot times, i've I've heard a lot of stories like this with with kids of me and my parents had a lot of money, but X, Y, and Z, they were never around. It's like, hey, hey, hey, what's going on here? you're The way that you're using money is reflecting that maybe we're not that important.
00:20:57
Jim Crider
yeah You have a lot of these things, you have the optionality, you have the freedom, but you're still not choosing to align your resources, your time, your money, relationships with what you say you value.
00:21:07
Jim Crider
Maybe you're throwing money at a problem. How many people do that?
00:21:09
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:21:10
Jim Crider
You throw your money at a so at the problem thinking that's the solution.
00:21:10
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:21:13
Jim Crider
When most people actually want time, they want to express value. They want to see value being expressed, not dollars being expressed. and Again, dollars can communicate value, but you know that's I think I think most people would rather have a like significant be it quality or quantity time with people than just a check written to you like it's coming from your uncle.
00:21:35
Jim Crider
You know, there's Seinfeld episode where think it's it George or Jerry gives Elaine a check.
00:21:36
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:21:43
Jim Crider
for her birthday or Christmas. And she says what am I, mean what, what are you, my uncle? And yeah, I think that's what a lot of us try do.
00:21:47
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:21:49
Jim Crider
We tried to, we tried to write a check on, on these things and think that's going to wants and needs feel valued.
00:21:57
Cade Grimm
Yeah. And it's thinking, hearing you mention the, uh, like the top 1%, you know, the, the CEO, the, the physician, the, the, whatever that that has a lot of demands from work that pulls, you know, pulls them away from family.
00:22:16
Cade Grimm
I'm sure the intent there is, you know, maybe they grew up without anything. And so they're saying, man, I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can to give my kids, my wife, my family, the life that I never had the chance to have.
00:22:28
Cade Grimm
But in in doing so, they are actually they're so absent that their family's like, man, screw the money. I just want you. i want time with you. so it's i'm I'm not in that position. I'm not a business owner. I don't i don't make millions of dollars a year and have unlimited resources to at my disposal.
00:22:49
Cade Grimm
But I would i wouldd imagine that's difficult spot to be in to find that balance of of, man, I grew up with nothing. I'm now in a spot where I can give my family anything. But what they want more than anything is just me and and time.
00:23:03
Jim Crider
I mean, just stop and have that conversation. Like if you're, don't even wait to your, if you're, if you're already sensing that from your spouse, this resentment, stop now and go out that conversation.
00:23:06
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:23:12
Jim Crider
If you're not sensing it yet, still stop and go out that conversation.
00:23:13
Cade Grimm
Yep.
00:23:16
Jim Crider
Like, Hey, no I know I'm, I'm busy.
00:23:17
Cade Grimm
Yep.
00:23:19
Jim Crider
I'm doing these things. Just tell them why and hear them out. Don't tell them in anger.
00:23:22
Cade Grimm
Yep.
00:23:22
Jim Crider
How many movies and stuff do you see and movies and in real life? Do you think that happens with where it's like, well, yeah, I'm never here. It's cause I'm trying to, you know, take care of y'all and who's going to pay for school and all that.
00:23:32
Jim Crider
And it's it's a, it's it's sort of a uses a gotcha versus a conversation point of, you know, they're usually that frustration is coming out of like, I want,
00:23:38
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:23:43
Jim Crider
more time with you. I want our kids to have more time with you. Let's have a conversation around that, not a screaming match of, well, I'm trying to do this and how would they, right, I'll take them out of their private school, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:46
Cade Grimm
you
00:23:55
Jim Crider
You know, it's like, dude, slow down.
00:23:55
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:23:56
Jim Crider
They're trying to say they they want you. They want you around. Hear that and say, okay, well, here's why I've done that.
00:24:00
Cade Grimm
Exactly.
00:24:03
Jim Crider
When I was growing up, I didn't have opportunities. And my goodness, I love you and our kids so much. I'm trying to give them opportunities that I didn't get to have because I care for them. I care for them now. I care for their futures. you could stop and sit on that, and as a couple gather around, okay, again, values, goals.
00:24:13
Cade Grimm
Mm hmm.
00:24:20
Jim Crider
Like maybe you're saying like the value is like two to raise kids well and to raise good kids. And the goal associated that might be sending them to fancy private school.
00:24:33
Jim Crider
So therefore the the trade-off, the decision and that the decision trade-off is – there is Well, I have to work more to send them to afford the school. So the action is I'm going to work more. Maybe you need to way back there and say, okay, what's the value to raise kids well and to raise good kids?
00:24:47
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:24:50
Jim Crider
How do we do that best? do i Does that come through sending them to the best school? Does that mean that I need to be there, we as a family, to be together more? Maybe even to the the detriment of...
00:25:03
Jim Crider
activities for the kids. Like, what do you mean by this? And y'all need to gather around these things and have healthy conversations. That way you know that like, well, I'm, you know, maybe you're trying to say that this is important to you, but it's probably not reflected that way to your spouse.
00:25:17
Jim Crider
So just again, revisit, try to go there, not in anger, not as yelling match, uh, explaining it, but explaining a way to actually try to learn from each other's side versus explaining in a way to like, simply get your point across and be done with it.
00:25:28
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:25:35
Jim Crider
You can go to another like other statistics. yeah I'm just going through the way I wrote them down. It's probably going to follow the best mental framework, but oh well. Financial infidelity.
00:25:45
Jim Crider
This is from the National Endowment of Financial and Education, I think.
00:25:45
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:25:51
Jim Crider
handwriting is really, but I should have been a doctor with how bad my handwriting is. Could I kill it?
00:25:56
Jim Crider
so it said that 41% of divorces report that is related to financial infidelity and, uh,
00:25:57
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Jim Crider
20% of those cases say that financial infidelity was a direct cause of their divorce. So again, 41% of divorces report financial infidelity and 20% of those that report it say it was actually the direct cause of it. And financial infidelity could be like hiding hiding debts.
00:26:23
Jim Crider
hiding debts It could be private banking accounts so you're spending and buying things through. So just overall, just not being clear on what we have or maybe what we don't have or where your money's going.
00:26:34
Jim Crider
That could be pretty contentious.
00:26:35
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:26:35
Jim Crider
And it's that's a pretty interesting stat.
00:26:38
Cade Grimm
Yeah. I think, one that I saw was that, you know, obviously money or financial problems is, is one of the leading causes of divorce every year, but, uh, 20 to 40% of all divorces are tied in one way or another to financial problems.
00:26:58
Cade Grimm
So while money might not be the, the, the reason cited for that divorce, money may have been a major contributing factor to why, you know, the, the actual reason for divorce happened.
00:27:15
Cade Grimm
So that was interesting. Not only is it a leading leading cause, but it also is a reason for some of the other leading causes.
00:27:23
Jim Crider
Yeah, like financial stress may lead into like this gets into like weird, interesting things around timeframes for divorce spikes and stuff around like
00:27:33
Cade Grimm
Yep.
00:27:34
Jim Crider
general higher financial stressors like nationally. Another one I wrote down was just differing financial priorities. So maybe one spouse is a big saver, the other one's a big sender spender.
00:27:45
Jim Crider
That side of this 30% of in divorces is again, differing financial priorities. And again, oftentimes that comes back to, again, maybe I'm not saying every spouse is like,
00:27:50
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:27:54
Jim Crider
amazing and has the most altruistic intent. That'd be naive to think. But I would say probably a lot of times that people, I've uncovered a lot of these, where you think that your spouse hates you as the worst, they're really trying to say something different with their money. It's just not coming out right.
00:28:09
Jim Crider
Maybe they're selfish and goofy. But you know, you should probably at least have a conversation like, hey, these priorities are being, they look like this, why is this happening?
00:28:18
Jim Crider
And maybe one of them's wrong and that's where we need to have behavior change. Again, just because you're doing something doesn't mean you're you're right, but at least have those conversations. Yeah, it goes back to like just the lack of conversations, the type of conversations, but then like, all right, your priorities are saying this, you should be called out. If my priorities are wrong,
00:28:38
Jim Crider
My spouse, who I expect to love me, should have the ability to call me out on that. Hey, Jim, I'm seeing this in the way that you're living. That is not right. Now, of course, I might respond like a jerk, but that's not right, nor does it make my my actions correct.
00:28:48
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:28:52
Jim Crider
And hopefully if I'm if i'm teachable, then i would I would receive that correction and and change that. so yeah, differing, differing priorities, 30% sided in 30% of divorces.
00:29:04
Jim Crider
another one i saw is, uh, by Dave Ramsey, their, their, uh, their research, uh, there's couples who frequently argue about money, uh, are 30% more likely to divorce.
00:29:15
Jim Crider
So not just talk about money, but argue.
00:29:16
Cade Grimm
I saw that one.
00:29:17
Jim Crider
I want to make sure we're clear there. It's not couples who just talk about money. It's couples who argue about it. They're 30% more likely divorce.
00:29:24
Cade Grimm
Yeah, that is one that I had written down. another one that I, that is kind of related. It said that feeling that one spouse spent money foolishly increased the likelihood of divorce by 45%.
00:29:38
Cade Grimm
So, again, that's just that I would think comes down to having healthy conversations about, uh, what do you value and what is my, what is my money communicating that I value?
00:29:51
Jim Crider
I would say the biggest, probably the Kendra and i we have a good marriage and whatever, but someone asked me like, Hey Jim, what's the biggest fight you'll ever had? The one that comes to mind was goodness, a good 10 years ago.
00:30:04
Jim Crider
And I'm not going to name names on who it was, but one of us wanted a fancy floor lamp from restoration hardware. And I'll let you decide who that was.
00:30:14
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:30:16
Jim Crider
Yeah.
00:30:16
Cade Grimm
fit Pan your camera around. we all want to see how many floor lamps you have in your office.
00:30:20
Cade Grimm
Gotcha.
00:30:20
Jim Crider
It's just like my office is filled with like fancy lamps.
00:30:24
Jim Crider
Dang it.
00:30:27
Cade Grimm
gotcha
00:30:28
Jim Crider
And that was, that was, that was, I know it sounds so silly. And I agree. The, the person who is the, the, the guilty party in this would recognize now that it's, that was silly. Yeah.
00:30:41
Jim Crider
Be that me or Kendra would recognize that silly. But again, it's it's like, man, this is a foolish thing. What are we doing here? And again, that goes like differing financial priorities.
00:30:48
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:30:50
Jim Crider
i Obviously, those are the differing financial
Financial Stability and Divorce
00:30:52
Jim Crider
priorities. And then what you said, like the foolish decisions are really commingled. This was interesting. It talked about your debt-to-income.
00:31:03
Jim Crider
So i saw a statistic that said if your debt-to-income, or DTI, is above 43%, you are 50% more likely to divorce within five years than those with a DTI, again, a debt-to-income ratio, below 20%.
00:31:18
Jim Crider
So the amount of debt that you're carrying compared to the amount of income you have, if it's above 43%, you are more likely to get a divorce within the five years than a couple who has DTI below 20%.
00:31:29
Jim Crider
think it's a reflector of going back to like stress.
00:31:30
Cade Grimm
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:31:32
Jim Crider
Like if you have a high DTI, you're probably gonna be stressed. Therefore, it's gonna come out in the way you communicate. You're gonna be each other's throats. It's probably gonna reflective of like, you know, why why did we do these things? We don't have enough money for this other stuff. And I mean, you could probably, I would venture that,
00:31:48
Jim Crider
Anyone who's, everyone who's listening, if anyone's listening to this, probably has something in their head of like, yeah, can see that because I've seen that in my life because of x Y, and Z. I'll let you sit on that for sec.
00:31:58
Cade Grimm
Yeah, that's a... That's a common one I feel like that we talk about with in in our meetings every day is when we we come to that, someone comes to us saying, hey, I've got this debt.
00:32:12
Cade Grimm
It is costing me 8%. Should I pay this off or should i continue to service the debt and just invest my money? And you know we there's the math math side to that equation where we can...
00:32:26
Cade Grimm
come to a conclusion on what whether whether it makes sense to pay the debt off or or to invest and try to out outpace the interest you're paying on the debt. But just as important or more important is the the qualitative side of that conversation of Does servicing debt stress you out? Like having this car payment or having this mortgage or whatever, is that keeping up at night? Is it is it causing conflict in your relationships?
00:32:53
Cade Grimm
If so, we need to factor that in. So yeah, I can see why,
00:32:59
Cade Grimm
forget the number, oh more than 43%, your DTI at 43% or higher is a cause for stress and and poor communication.
00:33:10
Cade Grimm
Because it is. We talk to people all the time. It's like, man, yeah, I recognize this this debt is only at 3%. And I can outperform that just sitting in a money market. But it stresses me out to know that I owe somebody something.
00:33:23
Jim Crider
Yeah. and going Going back to like just general communication. Another one I had was for couples who discuss finances and align their goals. with one another, they are 20 to 25% less likely to divorce.
00:33:38
Jim Crider
So you have 20 to 25% lower divorce rate for couples who just regularly discuss financial goals and then align themselves with that. So just having, again, it comes back, like have these conversations. I'm not saying conversation is going to fix it every time, especially if you're, you're married to somebody who's, you know, arrogant or just a selfish goober, like, well,
00:33:58
Jim Crider
Don't just call it quits because of that. That will be an uphill battle. But don't give up.
00:34:01
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:34:03
Jim Crider
I'd rather you communicate than what? Just not at all. So communicate. It's just like, again, statistics. And I think, you know we have anecdotes and anecdotes going, they maybe I'm wrong, but I think, again, statistics are a culmination of a bunch of anecdotes.
00:34:16
Jim Crider
So just yeah have those conversations. Like, what are you trying to communicate here? Because you're communicating X, Y, and Z. and how do you set goals? We'll have other conversations specifically on like how to set goals.
00:34:27
Jim Crider
But again, like going back, like a goal, it's going to change. So just talking through like, Hey, what's really important to us as a family. Don't go straight to goals. Anchor into first to like, what's important to us? Like, what is our family's mission statement? What do we be known for both individually and as a family? Like what kind of, of, of, uh, don't know, uh,
00:34:52
Jim Crider
values are we trying to demonstrate as a couple? What legacy want to leave for our kids? When our kids are are older, what key memories what do they want to have? Are there any, are there any like family,
00:35:09
Jim Crider
like things that we do, do we want our kids to pass on? Like, I don't know, just having those conversations and then that should probably that will probably lead into how you spend money. Yeah.
00:35:21
Jim Crider
yeah
00:35:24
Cade Grimm
Yeah, I think, I think I don't know. what I don't know this because might not be the the reason, but money is such a like taboo thing that I feel like people don't talk about enough. You and I talk about it all the time, every day, all day.
00:35:39
Cade Grimm
But to most people talking about money is is kind of odd, not just to strangers. Obviously you don't just, you know, walk in the coffee shop and start talking about, you know, how much money you've gotten your 401k to the guy sitting next to you.
00:35:52
Cade Grimm
But, I think because we don't we generally don't talk about money, it makes it something that's very difficult to communicate about, even to the people that you do love and trust and care about.
00:36:06
Jim Crider
Yeah, and it can be it can be vulnerable because, again, if your if your money is maybe your money is being spent goofily right now and you're just
00:36:13
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:36:15
Jim Crider
It's what you do. Again, most people, if we're saying that money is a means of communicating what you value, but but again, a large problem is what you the way you use your money as a communication method is totally out of line with how you what you actually value in life.
00:36:25
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:27
Jim Crider
It's because you're you're going through life not intentionally. You're doing things just off of off a whim. So there's this misalignment, and that can be awkward. It's like, hey, I know... I'm saying that you're important to me and my resources don't reflect that.
00:36:42
Jim Crider
I need to reconcile the two. So that can be sort of weird to bring up, but but you'd rather I'd rather bring it up than and then k not than have this this angst there. Yeah, going to come back to, and this sort of goes back to the the the metric of the bottom 20% income households versus and the top 1% and houses like chasm.
00:36:59
Jim Crider
I think part of that... I don't know. Something i think about routinely is, let's think of a billionaire. I don't know how many billionaires are divorced, but probably a lot of them.
00:37:12
Jim Crider
I'd actually be curious about like statistically, like billionaires who are in multiple marriages versus you know moderate income households versus low income households.
00:37:23
Jim Crider
So let's let's just say that we have a bill, let's say it's Jeff Bezos. I don't know Jeff Bezos. Maybe he's a wonderful guy. Maybe he's a total not wonderful guy.
00:37:34
Jim Crider
don't, maybe Jeff Bezos in the nineties was a wonderful guy and maybe it wasn't, but let's say it was me and I'm Jeff Bezos because Jeff Bezos is since divorced to his wife that he had been. If well' so we'll just put it on me.
00:37:44
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:37:46
Jim Crider
If, if someone came to me and said, Hey Jim, in 20 years, you will be the world's richest person or one of the top five world's richest people. But Jim, In 20 years, you will no longer be married to Kendra and you will be estranged from your kids.
00:37:55
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:38:00
Jim Crider
Again, so we we moved off of Jeff Bezos.
00:38:01
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:38:02
Jim Crider
i' you know if he has kids. So we're not there anymore. So this is someone came to me, said that. I personally would not take that. I'd say, no, no, thanks.
00:38:10
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:38:11
Jim Crider
Jim, would you rather, you'll be the world's richest guy, but no longer married. to your wife and no longer have your kids. I would not take that. But how many people go through life and then one day end up with a whole big pile of money and don't know their kids well and they don't know their spouse anymore because over time they made decisions that led to that place.
00:38:34
Jim Crider
I think if you ask them early on, would you give this up? You'd say, no way I would. i wouldn't do that. But we allow those things to creep in over time through lack of taking inventory. Like what's important to me? I would say right now, like I think most people would say, man, my, my, my spouse, my kids are more important, but is your time, is your money, are those reflecting it? Are you sitting on those things enough to, are you taking an inventory?
00:38:55
Jim Crider
Is that, is that, is that what's being shown in my life? Am I, am am I voting with, with my time and money, my money, my casting a vote to those things as being more valuable?
00:38:58
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:39:06
Cade Grimm
yeah All of this, I think, continues to come back to pause think about what's important to you, have conversations about what you value and why you're doing the things that you're doing so that you don't end up, you know, decades down the road thinking you've been chasing one thing.
Managing Financial Stress
00:39:29
Cade Grimm
And then really you, you were leaving behind all this other stuff that actually meant more to you than, than you realized because you didn't stop and take inventory of those things.
00:39:41
Jim Crider
I, uh, let's, let's switch over. We've beaten marriage and money. Pretty, pretty good with statistics. I have a couple for like personal. So the American psych association, uh, cited that 60 to 70% of adults cited finance, uh, finances as a stressor.
00:39:59
Jim Crider
And, uh, those stressors could be related to debt, your job, feeling stuck in a job, uh, your expenses, a high DTI, again, a high debt to income ratio, unexpected expenses, things like that. But again, 60 to 70% of adults cited financial finances as a major stressor in their life.
00:40:19
Jim Crider
So again, taking inventory of like, all right, if it, let's say it's debt. I mean, how many of those are things we can sort of control in a sense? Yes. Medical debt. Sometimes it can't be controlled, but debt expenses, high DTI.
00:40:31
Jim Crider
Let's pretend it's a lot of Americans.
00:40:32
Cade Grimm
okay
00:40:34
Jim Crider
I've talked to a large sample size of people over the years, like tens of thousands of people. And And again, I'm not trying to like say this to everyone, so please don't take it that way. But there are people who they go and buy the new Escalade and now they have, okay, 67% of adults have this stuff.
00:40:52
Jim Crider
Now they have a lot of debt. Not everyone has Escalade has debt, but oftentimes you had gut debt. Maybe you have to stay in a job you don't like to service that debt. you Your expenses are high as you service that debt.
00:41:04
Jim Crider
You have a high DTI. Yeah, like like, I'm not saying buying a nice car is the worst thing ever, but there's opportunity cost.
00:41:12
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:41:13
Jim Crider
There's trade-offs with everything. you're You can be giving up a a tangible thing. Maybe you buy you can buy an Escalade or you can take your kids to Disneyland. or you can just save that money and not have a high DTI, or I guess yeah that, yeah, that would affect your DTI.
00:41:29
Jim Crider
So have a lower DTI, have lower this, this, and this, that would lead to lower financial stress. Do you want Disneyland, Escalade, lower financial stress? Take your pick.
00:41:40
Jim Crider
And it's it's not in a vacuum, but these all, I mean, there's there's trade-offs as we consider these things.
00:41:41
Cade Grimm
yeah Yeah, but I feel like most people don't stop and ask these questions.
00:41:45
Jim Crider
Like, gosh, if I went blue on my money right now and levered up on debt, yeah, I would i would be more stressed. Like these are all correlated. Yeah.
00:41:55
Cade Grimm
you know but Most people just jump straight to, man, that escalates cool. Let's go buy it. And they don't stop to think about all the implications of that decision. And I'd also be curious to know,
00:42:08
Cade Grimm
like how much social media plays into but into all this or into these stats, I guess, at least specifically play in the comparison game. And it's so much easier now to see what other people are doing and what other people have, or at least what, what they're portraying online to have.
00:42:28
Cade Grimm
Cause that's tough, you know?
00:42:28
Jim Crider
Yeah, we used to keep up with the Joneses, but and the Joneses were like the three people around you.
00:42:29
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:42:33
Jim Crider
You're the guy across the street the two next door neighbors or something like those are the Joneses.
00:42:34
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:42:36
Jim Crider
Now the Joneses are everyone in the world who is on social media. So now your Joneses are not people like it's just everybody.
00:42:41
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:42:43
Jim Crider
And you don't even see the Jones like used to be like, oh, there's the Joneses again. They have a nice car, but also their kids are a bunch of rascals. Now we can put on whatever sa we facade we want on, you know, so put social media.
00:42:50
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:42:52
Jim Crider
It's like, wow, they have a nice car. And look, their kids always wear matching sweaters and everyone's dressed really nice.
00:42:57
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:42:58
Jim Crider
And no one, everyone's always smiling. It's like, dude, we we have to consider here like the authenticity of what we're observing and recognizing. gosh, why would I even allow someone else's success for lack thereof or anything like that to actually measure what is valuable in my life?
00:43:14
Jim Crider
Like that's great for them. Maybe they have nice things. That's awesome. I hope they're really happy.
00:43:18
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:43:18
Jim Crider
And maybe, maybe I can use what they're doing is like, oh, it's cool. I'd like to do that from with my family as well, but that shouldn't be my barometer for success or, or, or, or lack thereof.
00:43:30
Jim Crider
This is, I guess this sort of goes back. Maybe it seems, uh, uh, I'm having trouble with words. Maybe it seems sort of phony of me to say, but I think it's really funny.
00:43:42
Jim Crider
So a few months ago, know I told you the story, but think it's hilarious. Probably in like May or so, May, June, Kendra and I were having all the, all the neighbor neighbors were outside. All the kids were playing in the cul-de-sac.
00:43:55
Jim Crider
So Kendra and I were outside sitting in lawn chairs while the parents and as our, as our kids ran around and threw water balloons at each other. And Kendra and i had just finished up planning a handful of trips.
00:44:07
Jim Crider
So I think I was leaving a couple days later for a conference in Vegas. And then Kendra and I were going to Italy and then we were going to this and this. We were doing a lot of stuff. Way more travel than we've ever done in a year. And we were sitting there hanging out and Kendra and I both drive older, beat up cars.
00:44:25
Jim Crider
Now, I really don't care at all. And our neighbors mostly drive nice, fancy cars. They get new cars regularly, okay?
00:44:32
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:44:33
Jim Crider
And, uh, and I whatever, again, if that's important to you, whatever, that's great. I'm awesome. Uh, but one of my neighbors, uh, we were talking about summer plans and I mentioned, Oh, Kendra and I were about to go to Italy for about two weeks and we're no kids. It's just us. And I was just talking about how excited we are. And like, man, that sounds like the best trip ever.
00:44:51
Jim Crider
I wish we could afford to go to Italy too. I would love to do that. And then. Five minutes later, Kendra made a joke about how I tend to be frugal.
00:45:02
Jim Crider
And one of those neighbors said, again, he said, yeah, I could tell you're frugal by the cars you drive. This is the same neighbor who five minutes before was saying, i wish we could afford to go to Italy.
00:45:13
Jim Crider
And one, when he said like yeah like, he made that jab about our cars. I wasn't offended because honestly, I really don't care. I actually thought it was sort of funny.
00:45:19
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:45:20
Jim Crider
It's like, wow he actually just said that.
00:45:23
Cade Grimm
Hmm.
00:45:23
Jim Crider
But it's just like the the irony of the the lack of awareness. I wish we could go to Italy. It's like, I don't know how much your car note is. let's Let's say you paid cash for it. Let's say you pay cash for a $90,000 car or however much your car costs versus paying cash for a $30,000 car. That's 60 grand.
00:45:39
Jim Crider
Like Kendra and I spent almost two weeks on an amazing trip in Italy. We spent like 11,000 for everything. All right. That is five to six trips to Italy right there.
00:45:50
Jim Crider
You still had a car. You just had nicer one. Now it's going to get you anywhere better. No, maybe. Maybe if that is like, maybe like for your opinion, yes, maybe it's worth it. Just admit having a nice car is more important than go to Italy.
00:46:03
Jim Crider
Again, you can have anything.
00:46:03
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:46:04
Jim Crider
you just can't have everything like, all right. yeah Maybe if we said, we asked you, would you rather go to Italy or have that, that fancy Escalade versus a less, you know, versus having our minivan? Maybe you would say that you'd rather have the Escalade or maybe you'd say the minivan, but yeah.
00:46:18
Jim Crider
don't sit here and pretend that you can't do something when I'm looking at the, the proof that saying that you could use chose not to, the irony was just hilarious.
00:46:25
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:46:26
Jim Crider
It's like, dude, I could go to Italy every flippin month.
00:46:26
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:46:29
Jim Crider
is how I'm choosing it. And I don't have that financial mutual stress because of how we're choosing to a lot our resources.
00:46:30
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:46:34
Jim Crider
So again, I'm not, I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your time and how to spend your money.
00:46:35
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:46:38
Jim Crider
I'm trying to tell you to take inventory. So you do things intentionally and you're aligning your resources, your time and your money and your, your relationships and all these things with what you're saying you value.
00:46:48
Cade Grimm
Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, if, if the, if the fancy car is ultimately what's important to you, great, spend your money on that. But the, the frustration comes when you're, you're saying that, man, I wish, I wish I could do these other things.
00:47:03
Cade Grimm
you So you're with your mouth, you're communicating that these things would be important to me. But the, the bank statement says otherwise, I don't know though. I in Montana rented a, a minivan and it had a heated steering wheel.
00:47:18
Cade Grimm
And my old truck sitting out there does not have a heated steering wheel. It was pretty pretty sweet. I'm going
Financial Planning and Well-being
00:47:25
Jim Crider
Heated steering wheel. Yeah, you think you're better than me with your with your fancy steering wheel?
00:47:25
Cade Grimm
have to reevaluate.
00:47:31
Cade Grimm
That's amazing.
00:47:32
Jim Crider
yeah let's Let's go last. So we've mentioned like marital stress, some personal stress. Let's take it a little bit further. So I was looking up just like suicide itself. so
00:47:40
Cade Grimm
Okay.
00:47:41
Jim Crider
And this was really interesting. This goes with like the correlation of like global events and like how finances ebb and flow within that. So during the 2008 recession, and great financial crisis,
00:47:52
Jim Crider
said that suicide, this is from the World Health Organization. It said that suicide rates rose by four to six percent in the effect affected countries from the global, the great financial crisis.
00:48:04
Jim Crider
And so again, suicide rates rose by four to six percent in the affected countries with financial stress as the key driver. And of that 20% of the cases cited financial stress as the primary driver.
00:48:20
Jim Crider
So, and again, we had this surge during these times of financial stress. Again, I know this is a, this is a sort of a downer of a conversation, but like, i I, care way about what I care way more about the people we work with than I care about their money.
00:48:37
Jim Crider
Like your life, your,
00:48:37
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:48:39
Jim Crider
your family, what you value is incredibly important to us. And we have to take time to understand what that is. Who are you? What's important to you, both individually and as a family, if you're married.
00:48:51
Jim Crider
And then if we truly care about you, of course, we're to motivated care about your resources and make sure that you're those are being used the most efficient and effective way that we can help to align with those things.
00:49:03
Jim Crider
So yeah, of cool like, my goodness, I, we,
00:49:09
Jim Crider
I know where we are, Kate, as a profession, it's such an honored spot that we have in people's lives to be invited into these conversations. It's very intimate.
00:49:19
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:49:20
Jim Crider
It's not navigated very often. you know how How often are people really and invited to, to disclose these things. So I never take that lightly. And again, it typically goes way further and deeper than most people.
00:49:32
Jim Crider
and they're like, I'm going to hire a financial planner and they're going sell me some mutual funds or something like that. And then also we're talking about like your deepest, darkest secrets and like your, your most valued memories and what you as so aspire to be and become like, that's way more than buying a
00:49:36
Cade Grimm
yeah
00:49:47
Jim Crider
you know stock portfolio, but my goodness, those are your, your money's a means of helping you achieve those things and our job is to help you do that. So we have to anchor into that. And it's, it's so, it's so honored.
00:49:58
Cade Grimm
It is. it's It's incredible. i In previous roles that I've had, my role was to be very transactional and always hated that.
00:50:11
Cade Grimm
You know, always got in trouble for spending too much time. My, my average handle time when, you know, to, to hit my bonus, I, my average handle time needed to be like six minutes per phone call.
00:50:22
Cade Grimm
Mine was always way more than that. Cause I just like talking to people n and sometimes, yeah.
00:50:25
Jim Crider
Yeah, that was a massive underperform of other firms because we would get these conversations
Motivations in Financial Advising
00:50:29
Jim Crider
like, hey, Jim, go go to the next transaction.
00:50:30
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:50:32
Jim Crider
It's like, dude, they're they're just they're talking about these things that are deeply intimate to them. Hold on.
00:50:37
Cade Grimm
Yeah, exactly. But I, my survey scores were always incredible because I cared more about just talking to people and getting to know them and trying to make what little connection I could in a 10 minute phone call.
00:50:52
Cade Grimm
and so you obviously know this, but that's why a big motivator for why I wanted to join you here is like have deeper connections and like truly just be able to, to help people and serve people. And,
00:51:07
Cade Grimm
Yeah, be brought in to to have these types of conversations and be trusted to to be someone that they'll come to with these things. like We get a lot of very weighty texts and emails sometimes. Sometimes people share stuff with us that they've not shared with anyone else.
00:51:23
Cade Grimm
And like you said, that's a very honored position to be in. I love it.
00:51:30
Jim Crider
Kate, if you had to either summarize this conversation or bring up one key point that you would want someone to walk away with, what would that be?
00:51:39
Cade Grimm
I think
00:51:42
Cade Grimm
my biggest takeaway would be to make sure that what you say is important to you and what your your calendar and your checkbook are so saying is important.
00:51:58
Cade Grimm
is important to you, those two things are aligned.
00:52:02
Cade Grimm
So I think a lot of what we we we spoke to and and harped on today was communicating and and what the lack of communication can can bring. So yeah, I would say that making sure that you're your resources and your, what you're saying are both a aligned as far as what's important to you.
00:52:29
Jim Crider
Yeah, I would, I'd say very similar again, going back to that, uh, uh, that statistic of, uh, couples who discuss finances and align their goals are 20 to 25% less likely to divorce.
00:52:40
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:52:44
Jim Crider
And again, the other statistics related to marriage was often, you know like differing financial priorities, financial infidelity,
Fun Hypotheticals and Wrap-up
00:52:52
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:52:54
Jim Crider
uh, the,
00:52:56
Jim Crider
the fighting, I guess you can, you can talk and that talks fighting. Yeah. A lot of those have to do with lack of healthy communication.
00:53:07
Jim Crider
So communicate communicate, communicate regularly, communicate well, communicate to, to be understood and to understand. And again, try to not only communicate what you're doing, but why you're doing it and do so in a way that is truly to,
00:53:24
Jim Crider
I would venture to say if you're married, your spouse loves you or at least loved you at one time and you love your spouse or at least you love them one time and you, most people are not so hardened that they don't want to get back there. So try to get to that spot of, hey, this is what's important to me.
00:53:37
Jim Crider
Here's why I'm doing this thing. So yeah, just communicate.
00:53:39
Cade Grimm
Mm-hmm.
00:53:40
Jim Crider
Okay. What's your, do you have a a silly question for the day?
00:53:47
Cade Grimm
I think I've asked you this one before, but it's it's kind of fun, and I don't remember what your response was. It's been a while. But back when i was when I was caddying professionally, carrying a golf bag around for a living, one of the caddies on tour, his favorite thing to ask people was the scenario where you've got a stadium, a hockey stadium. So you've got a full hockey team.
00:54:16
Cade Grimm
Full pads, full equipment, hockey sticks, all the things versus the crowd. If the crowd stormed the ice, who would win that fight?
00:54:29
Jim Crider
how many people are on a hockey team?
00:54:31
Cade Grimm
I don't know. Let me look up.
00:54:33
Jim Crider
I would say the crowd.
00:54:34
Cade Grimm
Yeah, there's a lot of guys on the bench, too. me see.
00:54:37
Jim Crider
Yeah. Nah, man. I would say crowd for sure. Like that could get ugly pretty quick. Yeah. Especially if you have some hockey sticks, you can just rush those dudes.
00:54:49
Jim Crider
What do you think?
00:54:51
Cade Grimm
20 players. Yeah, I guess it depends on the crowd. Are we at an NHL game with 40,000 people or are we at a high school hockey game with 100 people?
00:54:57
Jim Crider
yeah
00:55:00
Cade Grimm
i think I think an nh NHL stadium of of unruly fans that have been drinking for a couple hours, I think they would they would hold their own pretty well against, I just looked it up, 20 players against 20 hockey players.
00:55:00
Jim Crider
Yeah.
00:55:01
Jim Crider
I mean, if we're.
00:55:14
Jim Crider
Yeah, I'd take the crowd.
00:55:16
Cade Grimm
Yeah, I agree.
00:55:21
Jim Crider
Let's see here. Hmm.
00:55:27
Jim Crider
If you had to eat one type of food, so like nationality, I guess, of food for the rest of your life, what would you choose?
00:55:39
Cade Grimm
okay. So not just one dish, but one. Okay.
00:55:43
Jim Crider
Here, let's go there. So one dish, but the dish could deviate. It's like tacos. You regular taco. could have a Choco taco. Remember those? Or you said pizza. It's like, oh, you could have regular pizza.
00:55:50
Cade Grimm
Yeah.
00:55:51
Jim Crider
You could throw other stuff on it, pastas. what What would you be?
00:55:54
Cade Grimm
I would be, i would say Italian and it would be pastas.
00:55:58
Jim Crider
okay
00:55:59
Cade Grimm
but Bethany makes a couple of really good pasta dishes that I could easily eat forever and I'd be totally happy. And I think there's enough variation in pasta that I wouldn't get bored of it.
00:56:11
Jim Crider
Yeah, it's good. Sweet. Thanks for hanging out. It's good conversation.
00:56:15
Cade Grimm
Yeah, it was. Thanks, Jim.