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3. Space Food
29 Plays3 months ago
How is food different in space? Harvey and Anisha discuss cooking in microgravity, orbital greenhouses and some truly disgusting smoothies 🥣🥦🥤
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Transcript
Introduction from Echo 9
00:00:18
Speaker
Not really. Do you want to do the introduction today? No, it's too much pressure.
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome back to Echo 9. Here we are again, Harvey and Nish up in low earth orbit. Good afternoon, Nish. Hello. How's it going, Harvey? Yeah, it's good. How about you? Yeah, it's been a lot a learning experience, I think, hasn't it? getting Getting used to life in low earth orbit and just building our routine. I feel like we're like we're getting into that now. We're getting into the routine.
00:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, I reckon so. It takes a little bit of time, doesn't it?
Food in Space: A Culinary Challenge
00:00:54
Speaker
The topic of today is an exciting one. um we We were chatting and we thought that it would be cool to look in the pantry, you know, see what what food we have available. How do we stay alive up on Echo 9? I mean, food. Let's just talk about love the relationship with food half, because me and you are both quite quite the the foodies.
00:01:17
Speaker
So I think that astronauts eat like students. I don't know if you've had this experience, but maybe because I'm not a cook, but when I went to uni and I moved out for the first time, I was basically surviving off instant noodles or anything I could make in the microwave, maybe the oven, you know, it was very touch and go. And it feels like for astronauts, they also seem to have to go back to that sort of diet where everything's dehydrated and you can only add water or warm it up. And I mean, there'll be some fresh, fresh fruit and veg, but it's very limited just because it's, it's not something that's sustainable in space. Yes. I love cooking. I really love cooking. I love, you know, taking raw ingredients and turning them into a meal. But if you are just having instant noodles or if you are having a microwave meal, the kind of things that you would have and in space,
00:02:11
Speaker
That isn't cooking, in my experience. That is, or in my opinion. That's how I survive home. Be careful. That's not cooking. that that's just That's just heating things up. All of the all of the cooking part of that is done you know in a factory for you ah before you receive
Cultural Comforts and Culinary Adaptations
00:02:28
Speaker
it. And that is the same relationship that an astronaut has with the people on the ground that are preparing their foods. I guess it's all pre-prepared food, isn't it? Yeah.
00:02:40
Speaker
i sorry So I was obviously doing a bit of bit of digging around this and um you and I both love um lots of different cuisines and so I was looking at um looking into what the JAXA, so the Japanese Space Agency, send up with their astronauts and um they actually send up canned Japanese curry and grilled chicken skewers um they send up I think even the the Chinese astronauts get some of their more specific local cuisine as well, all kind of pre-prepared, but I thought that's still quite nice to be up there in the in in an environment where you're part of an international team.
00:03:19
Speaker
and you can bring those different you know world flavours to the different astronauts up there. Yeah, because it's ah it's a really important part of people's culture as well, right, the food. You don't want to go up and just have Western food if you're from a Japanese culture. I mean, I've seen that there's no bread.
00:03:40
Speaker
yeah Oh, no. Oh, no. There's no bread in space. um I would say I would say that bread is quite a Western food item. yeah I think um i mean I eat a lot of bread. I love bread. yeah um Bread in space.
00:03:56
Speaker
tends to be like tortilla wraps, I believe. Yeah, yeah. So um because ah it it doesn't generate as much crumbs. And I'm assuming bread is quite large as well. It's got quite airy, isn't it? Whereas tortillas quite flat, maybe easier to pack. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, very true. But that but you know, a tortilla, if you're somebody from Japan, you're used to eating, you know, lovely Japanese food and you go up and all you're getting is tortillas.
00:04:26
Speaker
be furious. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah. So that, I mean, it's it's a nice idea to think all of these different space agencies and national bodies actually, you know, go the extra mile of making sure that they're feeding the astronauts something that's a bit, um you know, wholesome and homely and makes them you know, it's not just you're out doing a mission and you're working the whole time, you get fed things that actually have a bit of meaning to you. and And I guess that is the attempt of, you know, trying to make it more of a livable experience rather than, you know, a six month job in
Cooking Skills and Space Recipes
00:05:01
Speaker
space. I think I think that's an important part of keeping people happy as well, is making sure that they've got
00:05:07
Speaker
access to foods that they like. I mean, how important is food for us? Oh gosh, don't even. I wake up, the first thing I ask my husband, what's for dinner? And he hates it. He absolutely hates it. You don't even have breakfast yet. and you're on a same Does he cook every day? um ah Most, yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
But why don't you cook? i just I'm just not very good. i'm I'm good at a lot of things half. okay I mean you know blow my own whistle right now. But I'm pretty great. okay But cooking is not is not on the list for me. And and I'm OK with that. i just I just don't enjoy it.
00:05:44
Speaker
You don't enjoy it. I used to be like that. I used to ah used to think that it was just sustenance. But as I've gotten older, I've i've discovered that food is the thing i I probably enjoy more than anything else. And it's yeah, it's it's like my my happy place. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love eating. I can eat. That's that's absolutely fine. It's the actual preparing of it all that just doesn't have appeal to me.
00:06:13
Speaker
So life in space would actually suit you or is suited you quite well. Oh, yes yeah. Yeah. Someone's done the hard work for me. You just need your husband to do all the preparing and then send it up for you to rehydrate. Yeah, exactly. And you wouldn't even really notice much of a difference. No, I probably wouldn't. God. But i do like I do like my condiments, you know, I do like um extra flavouring, extra you know sources on the side. um And I think that's important to also recognise that those are those are a bit different in a microgravity environment. Did you realise that? Yeah. like Well, yeah. I mean, tell me what you've learned. So I guess the sources are still in a liquid form, but also things like salt and pepper, which which are you know typically granule in a solid format, are made into liquids as well so that they don't scatter.
00:07:12
Speaker
Oh, that's clever. Yeah, because I guess a lot of people in salt and pepper are ingredients you'd use and while you were preparing food, but a lot of people like to add them afterwards, don't they? And like, you salt to taste. So having, you wouldn't be able to do that in the granular format, you just get salt everywhere. That's really interesting. I guess maybe they would have to do the same with sugar. Mm hmm.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. All right, I'm gonna give you my recipe for this Ethiopian curry that I make. Okay. And let's talk through the steps and see how we would replicate that on Echo 9. Okay, go for it. So, okay, first thing I do is heat up some oil in a lovely pan that I've got, that I do all my cooking in this pan. It's like my pride and joy. Right, I'm gonna stop you right there. No, but I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. No, we couldn't, we couldn't do that.
00:08:03
Speaker
a ball of hot oil travelling around the air space. no So I wonder if you could have the oil because the the the idea is that I'm fusing infusing the oil with some spices. And the first things I start with a a cumin and turmeric. So cumin and turmeric go into the oil and it makes like this infused oil. I guess you could probably have that section done on earth, right? And then you reheat that in a bag or something. Next up, I'm chopping up some garlic and chopping up some ginger as well.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah. So again, into like granular format. Would that have to be like a paste maybe? i Yeah, I would think that would be a paste. Pre-prepared in a jar on the side. Yeah, okay. You can get that, can't you? I mean, maybe you don't know. It's because yeah you don't do the food shopping. But let it's called like lazy garlic, isn't it? or something Yeah, that would be my type of garlic. If it's anything that's lazy.
00:09:08
Speaker
So lazy garlic and lazy ginger would go in next. On earth I'd have that in my pan. And that's like, you know, sizzling now. The aroma's delicious. Some onions go in. And then I start to add the, I guess the the bigger pieces in the curry, which are carrot sliced carrot and sliced potato.
00:09:28
Speaker
and i I like to um like shake them around the pan a little bit, like break up the potato a little bit so that the outside of the potato is a bit like crispier than the inside. um That, I guess, is just not going to happen. Well, well I mean, you can have your fresh your fresh veg. You could probably chop it up yourself in a contained environment. Do you reckon?
00:09:54
Speaker
i mean well I'm assuming you wouldn't have a pre-chopped potato in space. Do they have potatoes?
Taste and Nutrition in Microgravity
00:10:02
Speaker
Like solid potatoes? It's a good, I mean in ah in a fresh delivery, maybe, but obviously then it's dependent on the life of the potato.
00:10:12
Speaker
but then you've got to peel the potato, and or does it come pre-peeled? Right, so now i think now I think you're crossing into the the canned potato argument. That's where I think we're heading with this. Canned fruit and veg, yeah. So that is your solution. And then I think you empty your you know potatoes into the bag of your infused oils um annual garlic and and ginger. And then I think you should kind of shake it in the bag Yeah, I think that that i think that that's a good idea actually, get the flavours all. Yeah, so for someone who doesn't cook, I'm ah pretty creative at cooking in space. You're welcome. ah After that, um then essentially that's all the frying done. Then you you want to um create like a liquid to the curry. So then I add in some stock and all my other spices. So paprika,
00:11:06
Speaker
or paprika. I say paprika, even though I know it's paprika. I just like paprika, it sounds a bit better. It's just an annoying thing I do. So yeah, paprika and coriander, which I love. Some people don't like it, and I think they're insane. Oh, I love it. We love it on Echo 9. On Echo 9, yeah. We're growing it in the database. Oh yeah, we're growing that. For sure.
00:11:29
Speaker
um what else um mustard seeds and curry oh a bit of cinnamon stuff like that just okay yeah i think the uh the mustard seeds will be a bit of a bit of an issue maybe oh god they could be everywhere come there yeah scattered mustard seeds all over the place um that could be lethal um equally the cinnamon i mean but Maybe it's not a powder. Maybe you can have the bark. Liquid. It could be. No, I couldn't use it. It wants to be in there. I think it's probably got to be liquid cinnamon. Liquid. OK, we're going for liquid.
00:12:04
Speaker
OK, I tell you what, i I sometimes add a bit of um maple syrup as well. Oh, that's oh, that's naughty. That is a bit naughty. Yeah. And i but I reckon and I reckon syrups great in space, actually, because it's yeah viscous I see that. Yes. Yeah. I think that would be a good good consistency. Yeah. OK, I'm up for that. Plenty of syrup on board. I reckon you could infuse the cinnamon into the syrup and then put that in.
00:12:31
Speaker
And then whilst that's sort of cooking down, um I then get my rice on. But I'm assuming I could ping some rice in the microwave. I think so. I think that would be a pouch, a pouch of rice. And I would probably use less stock in the bag than I would in the pan. Because in the pan it's got a, you know... It's going to burn off a little bit, isn't it? Exactly, but it's not going to do that in space. So I guess it would be a more concentrated form of stock.
00:13:02
Speaker
A bit more Stewie than, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, look at that. Sorry, sorry. The final, final thing in Attica Watt. Is it Attica Watt? I'm going to have to look this up because I don't want to, it is Attica Watt. I'm sorry if I haven't pronounced that correctly. We actually don't have any listeners in Ethiopia at the moment. We've got a few listeners in um Tanzania.
00:13:27
Speaker
But Ethiopia hasn't happened. So we'll get there. Don't worry half. and No, I hope so. I hope so. But um anyway, yeah, the last thing I add is is usually some sort of leafy green, um which I love any kind of cabbage, kale, cavoloneiro, anything like that. I think delicious. I don't even know what the last one was half so. It's like's it's like the darkest cabbage. It's like almost black. It's absolutely it's delicious. Full of fitments. And then that just wilts down. So I think that would still happen in the bag. I think it would wilt as long as it got the heat onto it. Yeah, I think so. And then that's ready to go. Look at that. You've just prepared our first curry in space. What do you think? Does does that sound like the sort of thing that you would like to eat?
00:14:15
Speaker
Well of course it does, I will eat whatever is served because I don't cook. So you would I think I would eat that. I mean I guess that's how they approach it for you know some of those curries that the the Japanese astronauts and the Chinese astronauts bring with them as well. It must be a similar sort of concept where Most of that hard work is done and pre-prepared in a pouch and then you do very little cooking in space. Yeah, so they they actually do have curries, you say. Yeah, and yeah they do they do have curries. um i mean I don't know what they look like or the consistency of them, but I imagine them also being quite
00:14:54
Speaker
quite thick and quite stewy. Just thinking about enjoying my curry. What I've read is that microgravity completely changes your sense of sort of taste and smell, right? Yeah, yes. I think because it causes fluids in your body to shift to the head or something, which dulls that sort of sense of taste and smell that you have. Yeah, yeah, exactly. isn't I mean, that's such a strange concept to to think about, actually. but exactly as you describe it. I mean, obviously, on Earth, we've got gravity pulling pulling the fluids down and around our body, and we you know we regulate that. But in space, ah that is not happening. So the fluids in the body does does shift, and it's called fluid shift. um that's That's what happens in space. And because you have that build up in your face and a lot of astronauts
00:15:48
Speaker
at the beginning have puffy faces when they when they get into space because that the body needs to adjust to that change. Really? Yeah, yeah. And so and so they feel like they have, again, this is obviously just from from research. I didn't have this symptom, but some of you. Yeah, yo know your face is not puffy at all. I'm glad, I'm glad. Yes, well, that's good. um but But obviously that fluid buildup can get really caught up in your nasal passages and it can feel like a really bad,
00:16:17
Speaker
cold and so you and and that's something relatable for all of us. you know when we When we have a bad cold or you feel congested, um you can't taste as well as you would like and you can't smell as well as you would like. So so that that dulling of the senses um is just kind of prolonged in space until your kind of body gets a bit more regular. And and I assume slightly over time it improves, but certainly at the beginning it will it will be quite a shock to the system. um And as a result, a lot of astronauts ask for you know the condiments, the hot sauce, the barbecue sauce, anything to add, there's some extra flavor to the food because you know yeah everyone's going to taste it differently depending on how their body is reacting to the microgravity environment.
00:17:03
Speaker
So I would probably have to up the spices in my curry in space. Yes, I would think so. I would probably use a bit more than I would on earth. How are you with hot spicy food? Well, on earth, I'm not great. Are you not? I'm pretty rubbish, actually. I'm the one who gets teary-eyed, nose running. I mean, I love to eat it. I will still eat it, and I will sit there slobbering all over my food.
00:17:33
Speaker
ah My reaction to it is is pretty grim. Okay, i I think you and I are probably quite similar because i'm I love it. I love hot food, but I don't deal with it like particularly well. Okay, good. Yeah. I mean, if i if I go to an Indian takeaway, for instance, um i will I have no qualms having like the hottest curry that they offer. And I'm i'm obviously you know very aware that you are of Indian heritage, and so maybe be saying that.
00:18:05
Speaker
It's nothing that impressive, I don't know, but like... No, no, no, I think i and in the categories of how spicy you like your food, I'm probably not not a great Indian for that one. I mean, I will taste it and I will try it, don't get me wrong, but I will have like a, you know, I'll need some yoga or some ice cream afterwards to get me back down. Yeah, to soothe. Yeah, I often have an apple actually afterwards. I find that that helps.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, I know. It's weird. I don't think it's advised. I mean, it's not advised, I don't think. You don't even have an apple after a curry, you know. Whatever you do, don't have an apple. um But it just helped it helps put me at ease, I think. I get hiccups as well when I'm... Oh, okay. No, I don't get hiccups, but that's quite a cute half obviously.
00:18:55
Speaker
but I'm just imagining you hiccuping after a curry. But but I guess the the fundamental point of us talking about this is why is food so important in space? why why do we Why do astronauts need to be so careful about what they're eating, how often they're eating? Why is that such a consideration for all astronauts?
00:19:14
Speaker
My immediate thought is that you know food food is fuel for the body, obviously. And when you're an astronaut, you're part of a very small group of people who are doing very important work. You need to be healthy, fit, able to you know work under what I'm assuming are going to be fairly stressful conditions. um But you've also got to be aware of coming back to Earth and probably feeling like jelly.
00:19:43
Speaker
keeping your body well fed and able to adapt when you come back as well. um Yeah, I mean, I think, I think definitely right, because you're in, you're in a microgravity environment. And so your, your muscles are doing, I guess, less work than they are and on Earth, if that's the right way to phrase it, I don't know. But, but essentially, obviously, on Earth, you are fighting, not fighting against, but you're working against gravity. And you have this weightlessness sensation in space So astronauts tend to lose a lot of muscle mass. But muscle mass is obviously a lot denser than um fat, for example. So you're losing a lot more weight in space. And so it's really important to make sure that an astronaut's diet, um overall well-being, health is maintained in space. Because as you say, when they come back down, um you could be experiencing some very funny symptoms like feeling like jelly because
00:20:42
Speaker
your your muscle mass has you know suddenly decreased and you've now got to work against gravity to lift your arms up and down and you know your neck to hold your head up straight and and all of those things that we take for granted. So that's why food and what the astronauts are eating is so important. And the protein, you you do need to think about protein because that's what you you you know you're going to use to build that muscle capability. I've i've just looked this up and um astronauts typically lose around 5% of their body weight during a four to six month stay yeah in space. and maybe And that can include twenty up to 20% of muscle mass.
00:21:22
Speaker
That, yeah, see that, that's a lot. Like you're saying, yeah, that's a huge amount. Yeah. And it might be good for those, you know, those fat camps that people go to. I was just going to say how our next business venture is opening a fat camp in space.
00:21:39
Speaker
How many are terrible food? and donate supplies and we'll send you back down in a week. People pay a lot of money to go to those things. I genuinely think as space begins opening up, we will have orbital fat camps.
00:21:52
Speaker
Okay, well, I'm gonna patent that idea right now because I came up with that little nugget. Yeah, you did. That's it. that is I think that that is patented now. now that now if Once we publish this episode, then as long as nobody said that before the date that this episode goes out, I think you're all right. Okay, fab. Don't say my word for it. I'm not a lawyer.
00:22:18
Speaker
I think so. I think you'd have grounds to... I think we both do actually. We're in this together. We're in we're in Echo 9 together, so definitely. Fat Camp in Space is um ah the next our next business venture. Fat Camp. God. well well We'll phrase it in a life. Wellbeing ah retreat. Yes. in In space. In space. Or yeah orbital wellbeing retreat. Oh, I love that. I love that. See, that is something I would waste money on. The OWR.
00:22:49
Speaker
Oh god, you're getting me it's getting better.
Future of Space Food: Sustainability and Innovation
00:22:53
Speaker
Another thing I was thinking about was at the moment, all of the space stations that we have and space missions to put people in space are close enough to earth to allow for resupplies.
00:23:06
Speaker
But of course, as we go forward and look at exploring further out in the solar system, even creating human habitats on the moon, on Mars, that concept of of resupplying is is not going to be a feasible option anymore. Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
So those missions will need much more sustainable, nutrient dense foods than and what we currently have. So that the current system that we have works great for what we've currently got, but it probably needs a bit of a reimagining for for the future. Yeah, I mean, exactly that. I mean, right right now, um the shelf life of food in the International Space Station is kind of up to a year and a half.
00:23:52
Speaker
Right, and ah that would that wouldn't even get you to Mars, I don't think. no No, no, that wouldn't exactly. We're looking further out and actually NASA launched this deep space food challenge a few years ago to look for new innovative ways of creating a sustainable food source for these future long space deep space missions. Okay. What did that look like? What what sort of food sources did people come up with? I mean, that there were some fantastic ideas. I mean, one one of them literally was but creating food out of, I say thin air, but out of breath. So the the idea behind one of them was the carbon dioxide that we expel from our breath can be used to produce alcohol and the alcohol can then feed yeast. And that produces something something edible, something that's edible. And that's that's a quote from from this company saying that, you know,
00:24:49
Speaker
whatever this this yeast then produces is something that's edible. um It sounds disgusting, to be quite honest. ah So this one, um this particular company was looking at making sort of protein shakes in space. Oh, okay. that that's That's where the the yeast is is going. i I don't really do protein shakes, do you? No, I don't. I don't. i mean that They're really popular nowadays, I think. no i'm um But no, I thought that was a you know a clever idea that you know obviously we're breathing up here in space and our breath can be used to create something that we can eat.
00:25:26
Speaker
That was very clever. I mean, there there was another one actually, um, maybe, maybe sort of more, more up your street around the fresh, fresher sized stuff. yeah So you could have a set of small toaster size capsules and each one is self-contained. It has his own, you know, humidity temperature watering system. Most of it's managed by AI, which is pretty good. Um, and you could grow your own vegetables and even.
00:25:54
Speaker
insects such as black soldier flies, because that's a great source of protein. So I know you're vegan, but but how do you feel about that? So yeah, for listeners, I am vegan and I will have it known that as a vegan, I haven't mentioned it yet. And then we have three episodes in. i'm Sorry. I mentioned it for you. That's all right. I did want to mention it because I was thinking when I was saying that for these longer space missions, we need to be more sustainable and stuff. I mean, one of the driving factors for for many vegans is sustainability on earth, right? Because it's so much more efficient to eat yeah the protein.
00:26:34
Speaker
as in, in plant form, then feed that protein to say a cow and then eat the cow and so space and human space flight and everything in space is about efficiency. And so, you know, a diets need to be efficient as well, but, but I hadn't considered insects. I mean, I have eaten insects before. I'm more of an ethical vegan. I love animals and, um, that's, that's my main driver. The sustainability is of course, quite important, but I don't really.
00:27:04
Speaker
have any ethical qualms about insects. Okay. Okay. Well, you know, but fair enough. I don't think I could bring myself to eat flies as a source of protein. No flies in particular sound quite unappetizing actually. Um, maybe if you blend them into your protein shake exactly into my, uh, you know, yeasty protein shake.
00:27:30
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds delicious. Breath, yeast and blended black flies. I mean, you've got to do what you've got to do when you're up here as an astronaut, you know. Because a bug is not a bug, it's a bug, you know, like there are bugs I would eat and bugs I would absolutely not want to eat. And flies are on that spectrum towards the don't want to eat. I'm about to start heaving, so.
00:27:54
Speaker
No, let's just, okay. so So anyway, black soldier flies, yeah apparently a promising source of protein. But I thought the the the key thing for you actually have in this kind of um this so small small modular set of capsules is ah you get to spend, as a natural, you spend about three to four hours per week seeding, pruning, and kind of just gardening the crops. How do you feel about doing that?
00:28:22
Speaker
I would love to do that. okay That is very much the kind of thing that I enjoy doing now on Echo 9. Also, when I'm on on on Earth, in my garden, I love that kind of stuff. Great, great because this is is is making me feel a little bit little bit ill, you know. Yeah, you're so squeamish. You won't cook the food, you won't do the plants. I'm starting to wonder what you're doing on this station, to be honest.
00:28:50
Speaker
i'm I'm all the looks, that's it. of all right You're the face of Echo 9. I'll be the face. yeah okay ah bright I can be a bit of the brains. We can both be the brains. No, I'm i joking. um um will um I'll help you cook. I can add hot water to a sachet and put something in the oven in the microwave. you know Cooking in space is for me, thank you very much. You can you can do the gardening.
00:29:16
Speaker
ah yeah I'm going to request from ah Mission Control yeah a new module and it's a greenhouse and it's just glass all around, great observation and I want to just grow plants in it, loads of plants, some for for food and some for just decoration and enjoyment. Aesthetic, yeah yeah love it.
00:29:39
Speaker
Well, I think that was a really interesting discussion. And the more I think about it, and breath, yeast, black, soldier fly, larvae, smoothie just sounds quite nice, actually. I can't leave. Leave right now.
00:29:56
Speaker
I'll do what I have to to explore Mars. And if that is... ah So it's like a bush took a trial. Oh, God. People do that, you know. ah Right. No, maybe not. OK. I don't think you and I have. I don't think it's is you and I. No, i well, I won't be doing it down on Earth, um but needs must in space. OK. Well, I hope that all of our listeners enjoyed that and are feeling maybe a little bit intrigued.
00:30:24
Speaker
maybe Maybe a little bit peckish. Maybe peckish, yeah. yeah ah may you know Let us know you know what your favorite space meal would be. Let's get a little bit of audience interaction here and maybe we can chat about it next episode. But um yeah, in the meantime, I hope everybody down there is having a lovely day or night. Wish you all a ah very pleasant rest of your whatever it is.
00:30:54
Speaker
I've completely caught that one up. Stay tuned.