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6. Astronaut Training
26 Plays27 days ago
Human Behaviour and Performance Expert Susan Charlesworth joins Harvey and Anisha on ECHO 9 to discuss her experience training astronauts in the vital skills required for life in space.
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Transcript
00:00:18
Speaker
Not really.
Welcome to Echo 9
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody, to Echo 9. Up here in low Earth orbit, whizzing around as per usual, is me, Harvey, and my lovely co-host, Anisha.
00:00:30
Speaker
Hey, Harv, how's it going? Yeah, very good, thanks. And how are you? Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. I feel like we've been up here for for a little while now and ah we haven't managed to kill each other. So success, I think.
00:00:42
Speaker
a few attempts, perhaps. I've thwarted you at the last moment, trying to expel me out the airlock. i love it.
Susan Charsworth Aboard
00:00:50
Speaker
i'm Once again, life forms detected on the space station. We've got somebody in the airlock.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hello.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hey Susan, how are you doing? hi I'm good, thank you. Very good. Welcome up to Echo 9. Thank you very much. I'm so delighted to be here. yeah And we're delighted to have you here as well. So what do you think of the space station?
00:01:16
Speaker
It's very rustic. Rustic? Wow. Okay. Well, actually, I've been listening to your travels and I, um, apparently Anisha has a coffee machine and her duvet with her. So maybe it's not so rustic, very luxurious.
00:01:33
Speaker
It's cozy. Yeah. crazyy yeah but Rustic. I wasn't going for rustic season. But thanks. but time Well, I'm still stuck in the airlock, so if you let me out. Oh, I will let you. I'm so sorry. So sorry. Yeah, just decontamination procedure. Of course. Very important.
00:01:51
Speaker
Decontamination complete. Welcome aboard Susan Charsworth. Welcome in. Welcome into the studio module. Thank you. ah Not rustic at all. Very luxurious. Yeah, luxurious and high tech. High tech. high tech.
00:02:04
Speaker
Oh, well, welcome. It's great to have have a special guest with us this week.
Training in Human Behavior for Space Travel
00:02:09
Speaker
I'm not going to steal your thunder, actually, Susan. So why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about who you are and what you do?
00:02:16
Speaker
ah Okay, so I'm Susan Charlesworth. I train astronauts such as yourselves and mission control crews in human behavior and performance and human factors.
00:02:27
Speaker
So all the really important human skills or soft skills that are actually really hard to master um that are required for space travel, for um exploring isolated, confined and extreme environments such as space or Antarctica,
00:02:44
Speaker
and but are actually really important for pretty much everyone down on earth as well. How did you get into that? I mean, what's your what's your background?
Susan's Career Journey
00:02:52
Speaker
So how did I get into this? So when I was 16, 17 and choosing my A-levels, psychology was a new topic we could choose. So much to my dad's shock and horror, I decided to study psychology um But he was also he had his pilot's license. And so um he used to take me flying at the weekends. I was also joined the air cadets as well. So got to go and do aerobatics, which was great fun. So I was always interested in flying.
00:03:22
Speaker
And yeah, then it said studied psychology, which sounds like they're not at all related. But actually, they are very related. So when I was 24 or so, i saw a master's at Cranfield University for human factors and safety in aeronautics and found out that actually and the majority of aviation accidents, rail accidents um and accidents that happen in high and safety critical industries are actually caused by the human factor.
00:03:49
Speaker
the majority of them, rather than because there's a mechanical fault or bad weather or anything. So things like poor communication or poor leadership or lack of teamwork um can actually cause more accidents.
00:04:02
Speaker
So did you start training pilots and then move into astronauts? Yeah, yeah I thought I would. So like my thesis at university and then um yeah at Cranfield was looking at pilots and their reaction times and things like that.
00:04:16
Speaker
um So I thought that I would go into the aviation industry and kind of in the safety um aspect. But when I was at Cranfield, there was a job um advert there for a human behavior and performance facilitator.
00:04:29
Speaker
um at the European Space Agency over at the Astronaut Centre in Cologne. And I was 25 and thought, oh, yeah, that sounds a lot of fun. ah didn't think I'd ever get it because I was quite young. um And they said, OK, we'll take you on for a six month probation. And I ended up staying for about five, six years.
00:04:48
Speaker
So you're working, what did you say, at the ESA Astronaut Centre? Yeah, my very first um job was at ESA, the Astronaut Centre in Cologne. So yeah, so five years there teaching them.
00:04:59
Speaker
I then, you know, ah went back to the UK Space Agency and the education and skills team to get more youngsters interested in STEM. And now I have my own company, again, training adults in human behaviour and performance and went back to ESA to train their new corps of astronauts last year as well in human
Balancing Technical and Soft Skills
00:05:16
Speaker
factors.
00:05:16
Speaker
Oh, wow. So you're still training the ESA astronauts. So they can't get rid of me. i'm still there. i mean, when I think of astronaut training, I think of people in the um the centrifuge spinning around.
00:05:28
Speaker
yeah What percentage of the training will be, you know, the human factor, the soft skills stuff, and what would be the physical element of it? So their basic training lasts about a year um ah most of that will be technical training.
00:05:42
Speaker
um So a lot of it is classroom based, although they do have you know mock-ups of the so you know modules of like the Columbus module, for example, at the astronaut centre. But they also have a lot of simulation. So they have a um control centre there where they you know will learn all the kind of operational side of things.
00:05:58
Speaker
They have the neutral buoyancy facility in Cologne and again at NASA, which is basically a huge swimming pool where they have the Columbus module. It's the best simulation to and what it might be like with, um you know, having zero gravity whilst operating with the module there. And over at NASA, they pretty much have a life size ah replica of the ISS in the pool.
The Vomit Comet Experience
00:06:21
Speaker
So a very big pool. um And then, yeah, they have centrifuge. And then the Vomit Comet I've actually experienced as well. So that's um a parabolic flight that they can also, again, experience zero gravity. So there's a real mix of classroom based and um lessons.
00:06:37
Speaker
did you Did you say you've done the Vomit Comet? I just thinking that you've sat in it. Oh, I've experienced it. I haven't just sat in it. I've floated around in it. yeah Oh my God. What was that like? ah So I was really, really worried because I'd heard such horror stories about the vomit comet. They do give you scopolamine, I think it is injection to um make sure that you to try and stop you from vomiting. And luckily I didn't feel sick, but it was more the nerves beforehand.
00:07:07
Speaker
and But it was absolutely
Stress Management in Space
00:07:08
Speaker
incredible. So they do 35 parabolas so you get to experience about 30 seconds or so of um zero gravity for each parabola so someone described it to me as them like if you're on a roller coaster so as you're kind of going over the top of the roller coaster where you sort of lift off your seat slightly so it's like that but you know times 10 so you get about 30 seconds or so um floating around in in the aircraft.
00:07:36
Speaker
Oh my goodness. but is That's amazing. you so What are the circumstances that led to you having a go in it? Was it just, you know, end of the day, why not jump in um So I can't remember exactly, but um ah when I, again, I was, this is when I was at ESA at the astronaut center. So obviously the astronauts were,
00:07:57
Speaker
went and did training in the, I mean, that's the whole point of it for them is to, um you know, experience zero gravity, to learn what it's like to actually operate in it. So it's much as it is fun, it's not just fun.
00:08:09
Speaker
um So it I actually went up with Tim Peake and two of the other astronaut trainers at the, um you know, from Cologne. So we went from Toulouse is where they take off.
00:08:21
Speaker
um So it was Tim kind of learning how to operate in zero gravity, what it was like to maneuver, ah He also say had to practice doing CPR in space as well. ah So that was the whole point of it was actually very serious training, as well as a lot of fun.
00:08:38
Speaker
I mean, that sounds that sounds terrifying having to perform CPR like that. ah The whole way through your through this experience as you were describing it, I'm feeling the kind of the nervousness, the anxiety, the real importance for having someone who can sort of train you through, like you said, those softer softer skills to get you through some of those those times.
Crucial Skills for Astronauts
00:08:56
Speaker
that's really That's really interesting and stressful. yeah Also, I'm feeling stressed just talking about it. No, I didn't have to teach him the medical side of things. No, no, but how to manage it, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Like Tim and his core, and as I said, the new core, they all have this human behavior and performance training because they also, they all come from different backgrounds. They have different experience. Some of them are military, some of them are scientists, some of them are commercial pilots.
00:09:19
Speaker
That's why it's so important to, that they're all kind of on the same page. They all have the same soft skills, the same human behavior skills to be able to work together And, you know, the problem solving side of things um and decision making skills as well were all part of the, you know, what we taught them as well.
00:09:36
Speaker
Like Harv and are two commercial space astronauts. Right. What do you think are the main sort of, if you had to pick your top three astronauts? lessons to learn or top three exercises, what what are the like absolute essential ones that we would need to, we would need to go through? Because of course you did train us, right? So what were those what were those lessons, Susan?
00:09:59
Speaker
Well, the
Support Systems in Space
00:10:00
Speaker
first most important thing is actually that you are, I would say, self-aware um of yourselves and each other. so i don't know how long you're up on Echo 9 for, but um most of the astronauts um trips to the ISS are for six months, give or take.
00:10:15
Speaker
And you are with a small team for a long period of time. So the most important thing is that you actually can get on with each other. So all those cheesy team bonding, team building exercises you might have experienced in your um day job. yeah Actually really, really important that they... um and work out any differences and and find a way to get along with each other.
00:10:37
Speaker
so that's, yeah, I'd say teamwork, self-awareness, teamwork, um and then problem solving, again, really important. So on the ISS, not so bad because you've got direct communication with Earth and you can talk in real time and to mission control or ground control.
00:10:52
Speaker
But, you know, especially when we're thinking about going back to the moon and potentially even further, um where you won't have that, you know, you'll have a communication delay, then it's going to be really important that they are able um just as they are now, but even more important to be able to solve problems make good decisions, you know, um when things happen on the space station.
00:11:11
Speaker
It seems to me that for somebody who's never been to space, how could you truly prepare for that sense of isolation and anxiety?
Astronaut Selection Process
00:11:21
Speaker
stress and anxiety, being away from your loved ones, being so close to the vacuum of space. if It feels crazy to me that you could even comprehend what that would be like before you go there.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, so absolutely. I mean, there is nothing that's going to be exactly the same as going to space until you go to space. So 100% what you just said, we can prepare them and train them as much as possible.
00:11:45
Speaker
I think one thing that's really important to remember is the recruitment process. So, you know, the last selection 2022, it took them about two years to select and you know put all the people that applied. I think there was like 22,500 applicants.
00:12:02
Speaker
um This is the last ESA selection. um Obviously, NASA does it a lot more frequently, but the last ESA selection. And yeah, they had to go through a really rigorous selection process.
00:12:13
Speaker
um And a lot of that would be psychometric testing. So, you know, before they even have their very first lesson at the astronaut centre, when they are recruited, they have already been highly selected in terms of their ability to cope in those kind of situations.
00:12:28
Speaker
You know, even on the application form, they were looking for experience in, you know, those kind of situations on Earth, whether it's, you know, caving or having been on an you know extreme, um you know, adventure or gone to Antarctica or whatever.
00:12:42
Speaker
So yeah, ah um you're right. But as I said, they have the you know really rigorous selection process before they even become astronauts and start their training and all this.
Diversity in Astronaut Teams
00:12:54
Speaker
so what So Susan, you being somebody who's clearly met quite a few astronauts, um is there like an archetype? Are they all quite similar or is there a lot of variation in the astronauts you meet and train?
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, so I can't talk for the NASA astronauts because I am very aware there is was was a particular archetype for those in terms of, you know, there were fast jet pilots and fighter pilots and test pilots and everything else.
00:13:19
Speaker
But absolutely now that's not the case for ESA. You know, with so Tim Peake's Corps of Astronauts ah that he was part of in 2009, they had commercial pilots, military pilots and two scientists that um had never flown before, or didn't have their pilot's license.
00:13:36
Speaker
i And then this last core of astronauts as well, and again, I've seen such a big difference. like You know, they're not the kind of type A personality that you might imagine an astronaut to be, because we're really looking for quite different skills and personality types, um you know, with the the future missions that we're looking at um or that space agency are looking at doing. So it's changed quite a lot um recently. Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker
Does that make it more difficult to have different personality types? No, it's much better. Oh, okay. right Yeah. So if you think about a mission to Mars, you're going to want, or any mission, but if you think about the extremes, you're going to want to have lots of different types, aren't you? So we always think about it in terms of like a team matrix. So If you had, and I'm being really stereotypical here, like all type a you know, strong personalities, leaders, you know, everyone's fighting to lead and and be the best. You also need the people that are going to, you know, do the work and solve the work, the problem, you know, you need all the different types.
00:14:38
Speaker
um That's why i keep going back. That's why the teamwork part is so important because they all need to work together. um So actually it's much better. the you know the The breadth of background and skills and experience that people have is so much better than having you know one particular type. sure I'm just wondering which one of you and I, Anisha, is the type
00:15:02
Speaker
i think ive I think I've got an idea who it is. i think we take it in turns. Thank you very much.
00:15:09
Speaker
I guess I had a ah sort of another another question, which I don't know, Susan, if it's in your field or not. But so, I mean, it all sounds very stressful. And it's like giving me anxiety just thinking about it whilst I'm sitting here quite comfortably on Echo 9.
00:15:23
Speaker
But what about the support that the astronauts get once they're up there? I mean, how how do you or do you continue the training on that soft skill side or is it kind of they're loaded up before they go and they get up there and then they're just kind of expected to continue.
00:15:38
Speaker
do Do you have a view on that or how it works?
Human Behavior Training for All
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah. So they have. um So I was that it's quite separate, like the selection process to the training process to then the support process. So you have psychologists all along the way.
00:15:50
Speaker
um So, yes, when they're on the ISS, I don't know about Echo 9, but on the ISS, they have um psychologists who they can access at any point. So there is support there all the time. They also, you know, just as important as you know professional psychologists is obviously their family and friends.
00:16:05
Speaker
So they will have calls down to Earth with them daily, i'm preferably, um but, you know, a couple of times a week. So that's just as important that they have that support. They obviously talking to mission control, ground control all the time as well.
00:16:19
Speaker
So, you know, any inkling of a problem, you know, can quickly be resolved as well. So, yes, they get an awful lot of support whilst they're on the space station as well as before they go.
00:16:30
Speaker
Do you ever do that? And when they come back as well. Sorry. do you ever Do you ever just, you know, check in with the astronauts up on the ISS? michael callle No, I don't. um but When Tim Peake was on space ah in the space station, then we had lot of calls. I was working for the UK Space Agency then.
00:16:48
Speaker
So we had a lot of calls, but he was more interested in talking to the youngsters and getting them all excited about the space. Yeah. but Up here on Echo 9, Susan, you have the honor of being our full-time therapist. So thank you very much for that.
00:17:04
Speaker
I'm not sure if it's a blessing or a... I'm not sure how I feel. ah You've got a space. I guess ah a question I would have is around more and more people ah it's sort of going to space, or it seems that way. And as we're looking like at the next generation space stations and opening up commercial space,
00:17:29
Speaker
surely there's going to be more people needing this kind of training. And I wonder how you could roll that out. Yeah, so I have two views on that. One in terms of like the commercial astronauts, space travelers, I don't know what we're calling them, the commercial astronauts.
00:17:46
Speaker
um A lot of them are going for quite short periods of time. So they might only be up there for a week or two. so as much as these skills are still very important, they're not quite so crucial as if you're trying to um live and work with um astronauts for, as I said, six months or so.
00:18:04
Speaker
um so yes, still very important, but maybe not quite as extensive training as the astronauts are having at the moment. So that's one thought on that. The second point, though, that I always say to people, so yes, I give this training to, as I said, to astronauts, to the ground controller ESA,
00:18:23
Speaker
and But actually, it's really important to everyone on Earth. So I also work with a lot of space organizations who are never going to space themselves, um you know, who may not even work with astronauts going to space. They're building, you know, satellites and payloads and and things like that. So but they still have to work in a team. They still have to lead a team. They still have to lead a project. They still have to communicate with each other, with stakeholders.
00:18:48
Speaker
They still have to solve an awful lot of problems. um So, you know, this kind type of training isn't just for astronauts, it really is for everyone in any organisation.
Lessons from Space Training
00:18:59
Speaker
um As I like to say, humans are humans, you know, we we all know we all need the human skills, don't we, um to be able to to to operate successfully. Yeah, that was, I remember quite a few years ago reading Chris Hadfield's book.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah. An Astronaut's Guide to Life. on Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um I thought that was absolutely fascinating because yeah you get to hear all about the ISS and him doing his space walk and being blinded while he was doing it and stuff. of it It was about, I guess, all the lessons that he learned and how you could apply them to yeah life skills.
00:19:35
Speaker
So that's what you do as well then. Yes. Yeah. um As I said, I do.
Personality Profiling for Self-awareness
00:19:40
Speaker
I train and coach and people. I've stuck with the space sector because that's where I've been working for the last 15 years. So and but have also coached and trained you know teachers and people like that as well, because i mean, you know, when you're when you're not an Echo 9, when you're back down on Earth, you're still talking to people. You're still working with people. You're still having to get on with people.
00:19:59
Speaker
um to get the job done. So, you know, particularly in the space sector, we have such a lot of incredibly experienced, incredibly qualified people. So they can do all the technical side of the job, but they have to work with other people to do their technical side of the job. So it becomes really, really important that they have all these other skills as well, um which, you know, they weren't unlike me that's done psychology since I was 16. You know, they may never have been taught these skills or be aware of them at all. So yeah, really, really important for everyone.
00:20:29
Speaker
um I don't want to jump ah all around the place, but um one of the things you mentioned earlier on, Susan, was um self-awareness. And was just wondering, at like how do you increase self-awareness?
00:20:43
Speaker
What can you do to understand what your skills are or guess I guess be a bit more aware of you know where you should rank your skill yeah your strengths and weaknesses? So as said, the first thing that I do is personality profiling. Most people or most organizations, you know, most people I talk to have had some kind of personality profiling.
00:21:03
Speaker
And I was actually really reluctant to do this um to people because I've seen it done so badly before in terms of, oh, you're a this type and that you get this label. You're, i don't know you're an ideas person, Anisha.
00:21:16
Speaker
Harvey, you're a completer finisher. And so Anisha thinks, great, all I have to do is come up with loads of ideas. That's my strength. Thank you very much. And there's poor Harvey having to, you know, do all the, or you might be a process person has to, you know, do all the, ah carry out all the ideas that Anisha's come up with and Harvey's, you know, completed finisher. So he's crossing the T's and dotting the I's and not feeling very happy about it, I would imagine.
00:21:40
Speaker
um So the, um but the personality profiling that I do, i mean, A comes with a report and then I always have a, you know, one-to-one with them afterwards is really looking at, okay, what are the, you know, yes, this is the kind of profile that you've come out with, but what are the strengths? What are the weaknesses? How do you communicate? How do you get on with others? How can they communicate better with you?
00:22:02
Speaker
um And we also look at different um contexts as well. So again, people are like, well, I'm like this in my personal life. But when I go to work, you know, as much as we're all told we can be authentic and our real selves at work, everyone mostly puts on some kind of you know professional front.
00:22:19
Speaker
um But it also, I said, gives you the the different profiles of when you're, you know, your private self, when you're at home with your family, um your public self, so when you're at work potentially, and then also another profile of when you're in a stressful
Understanding Stress Responses
00:22:32
Speaker
situation. So again, going back to the astronauts, really helpful um for for things like that, you know, how do you actually react when you're under a stressful situation?
00:22:41
Speaker
And so again, with the self-awareness, you know, once you know that, it's not that you can all solve it in a day, but at least you start becoming more aware of it. Have you ever had anyone kind of deny and den either the profile and say no, absolutely not me?
00:22:56
Speaker
but i mean Or even an astronaut who's like, no i don't think that's me at all. That's not right. Then what happens? um I honestly have never had that because people really love knowing about themselves. Okay, right now.
00:23:08
Speaker
okay Yeah, so I i but i mean, i think it's all about how you how you do it. So when I conduct it, i always say to people like, you know, here's your 15, you answer the questions, you get the 15 page report and you tell me like, do you think this is true? Do you think, you know, tell me which bits you don't think are true. So I never say like, I just don't.
00:23:27
Speaker
gave the example to you right Anisha you're an ideas person that's it you know I've never say that's you I'd say this is what the report has given based on the the answers your answers to the questions um you tell me do you think this is true or not and majority you know they'll say yeah 90 of this is pretty true obviously the bits that they don't like they don't necessarily see a true um yeah but you know that's something to work on so yeah i've never had anyone say out out and out this is absolutely not true because yeah they answered the questions yeah it's true okay yeah no that's good to know
00:24:03
Speaker
but Yeah, it's interesting hearing you talk about completed finishers and and creative or ideas people and stuff, because i think Anisha and I have recently had to do this. We've recently done it.
00:24:16
Speaker
And I think I was a plant or something. yeah. I as well have. Two plants. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. i'm Which was really surprising to me. I don't really know what a plant is.
00:24:28
Speaker
Oh, I remember that. Is this the Belbin team types, isn't it? I think it was. I think it was. Yeah. I vaguely remember this. um Yeah. Cause that's, cause there's so many different pro but like profiling types that I'm sure you've um come across the plant that they kind of know, all or they have to do all the research and find out all the kind of background.
Skepticism about Personality Tests
00:24:46
Speaker
and Aren't they kind of like the expert? I think, no, I think plants are, Like we plant an idea and then we run away. so it's kind of.
00:24:56
Speaker
Which is both Harv and I. didn't think that was very accurate. So I'm going to be i'm gonna be the first person saying I disagree with this. i yeah But I don't know. It it always feels... it Every time that I've done these things in a work context, it always feels like um I haven't been asked enough questions to be given a definitive answer as to what personality type I have. It's like 10 questions and now you've decided which box I fit in.
00:25:24
Speaker
I'm assuming that when when you do it, Susan, it's it's a, I don't know, i imagine that it's a more rigorous process. and Yeah, it's much more, yeah. yeah and So it's not one of, I mean, we've all come across these online personality questionnaires for free um that, yeah, will be 10 questions and spit out some answer. But no, this is much more rigorous in terms of the number of questions and the way they ask the questions.
00:25:48
Speaker
And then, as I said, for the one that I use, and there's lots of different having personality type questionnaires out there. and I'm sure you've heard of Myers-Briggs and Insights, Luminous Sparks. The one I use is called DISC.
00:25:59
Speaker
um So that one produces a 15 page report. And as I said, it has, you know, kind of goes into the details of you and your strengths and weaknesses. Also talks about how you react with others. Also gives these different profiles. So it gives you a lot more information than just you are a plant, Harvey, the end, which you can't even remember what that is. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
And then, as I said, i always personally follow it up with at least one one to one coaching session. um And then most of the time, you know, lot more sessions than that. So it's not just a one and done kind of thing anyway. i i would never just tell you you're a plant, Harvey. I would.
00:26:35
Speaker
I'd follow it up. Thank you. i appreciate that. It sounds really interesting. I'd like to know. i would like to know. No, I always like things like that. Even, you know, what Hogwarts house do you belong to? Yes.
00:26:48
Speaker
I feel like I need to book a session. Susan, I'm going to drop you a text. Me first. funny I need to know. I'm really interested tea but what One last question. Susan, you've had this incredible career and and you know yeah and you're nowhere near the end of your career either. So you've got you've got loads of fun stuff to come still. But what's been the best bit so far? What's been your kind of favourite part of being involved, working with astronauts or doing the the psychology behind it? What's your top moment?
00:27:20
Speaker
So i i should say, I would say all the work with ESA was absolutely fascinating, obviously, with the astronauts and and and all the rest of it, the Vomit Comet and that. And it definitely, those were, you know, big, big highlights um in my career.
00:27:35
Speaker
I actually... I can't pick a particular moment, but so when I came back to the UK to work with the UK Space Agency, it was when Tim Peake was just about to launch on his Principia mission.
00:27:46
Speaker
And we were, um I was helping Libby Jackson, I'm sure you know, um we we were, and a team, we were running the education and outreach program for Tim's mission.
00:27:58
Speaker
And it was just the most fun because he was up there six months. So the most fun six months, we had about 35 different projects, different education partners doing the most amazing things to get kids interested in space and not just kids, teenagers, you know, grads, adults, et cetera.
00:28:15
Speaker
um So just like the variety of different projects and the things we got to do, you know, I got to go to BBC Broadcasting House and, you know, because he was filming some stuff there. It was just honestly,
00:28:27
Speaker
just running around with the most fantastic team, um you know, doing all this stuff in quite a short, you know, quite time intensive. I'm not sure I'd have the energy for it now. um You know, getting all this stuff done, making sure we got to speak to Tim at the right times when he was on the space station, and you know, connecting all these kids and that. It honestly was just the best six months.
00:28:47
Speaker
That sounds really fun, actually. yeah That sounds like a really fun job to have.
Career Highlights - Tim Peake's Mission
00:28:52
Speaker
no that's That's amazing. And to think that, you know, you were there kind of the for that six month period. yeah Like you said, not not chasing after not chasing off Tim, but, you know, making sure you're available and at the right times and and the kids have the opportunity to engage.
00:29:05
Speaker
That sounds, yeah, that definitely sounds like a good one. Absolutely. Yeah, it was. It was good fun. Well, Susan, um the oxygen levels, ah i don't know if you know this, but there's only enough for a small crew on Echo 9. You're ejecting me from the airlock. We will have to do that. We will have to do that soon. Yeah.
00:29:28
Speaker
um but um ah But before you go, just wondering if there was anything, you know, we haven't touched on that you thought was important or that you'd like to, you know, share with us.
00:29:39
Speaker
Oh, wow. um I'm sure there's lots of things. But no, I mean, it's been obviously delightful to talk to you both and share a bit about my work and why it's important, as I said, not just to astronauts, but to everyone down on Earth. So I will go back down to Earth. Yeah.
00:29:54
Speaker
And talk to those people. I think it's really really amazing that you know these these kinds of careers exist. then You can be ah you know an astronaut trainer um yeah looking at the human factors.
00:30:07
Speaker
That's just something I would never have thought of as existing even in the in the space sector. Of of course, we need to have it. But there's you think of people working in the space sector, you think of engineers. yeah And um it's amazing you know the variety of career options that there are actually.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And mean it's certainly not something when I was at school that I ever thought I would end up doing. i mean, talk about personality testing. We had like the careers questionnaire, you know, where it tells you what you're going to be.
00:30:33
Speaker
I hated that. Oh, I came out as a librarian and i was like, I love reading books. I'm okay, thanks. Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
no disrespect to librarians and i love a good library but wow it was quite different to what i ended up doing so um yeah yeah yeah i was i was a librarian actually when i was younger yeah that's one of my one of my first months no six months yeah but but i enjoy it i honestly i love books i love being in libraries i think i'd really enjoy it but it certainly no yeah what i ended up doing All right. Well, Susan, thank you very much. We will, yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
Oxygen levels critical. We're reaching critical levels now. I can hear the beeping. I'm locked. I'm just beeping. Thank you very much, Susan. We wish you were yeah a very pleasant journey back to Earth.
00:31:22
Speaker
Thanks for being here. Yeah, keep up keep up the good work training people like me and Nish for space flight. Will do. Good luck.
00:31:33
Speaker
Oxygen levels stabilizing. Ah, there she goes. Away in the yeah s escape pod. Escape pod? What's it called? Just like transporter.
00:31:49
Speaker
We'll call it transporter. Transporter is unsensible. Let's go with that half. I don't know whether that's the correct terminology. We clearly didn't do enough training on the operations side.
Astronaut Skills for Everyday Life
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's amazing to me to, you know, speak to people like Susan, working in this really unique area, training astronauts, training people on, you know, astronaut training, even just in their regular day to day jobs. I feel like I could really benefit from some of that.
00:32:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I mean, not not for you, but in general. Yeah, me specifically. Yes, you are you are the problem. I'm joking.
00:32:30
Speaker
Of course not. no i that's i mean that you know Learning about what astronauts have to go through to become astronauts is pretty damn cool. And I think more of us need some of those basic skills and we don't get given them unless you know you you kind of choose to do it yourself or maybe your employer is pushing some of it, but it it doesn't feel like it happens enough in day-to-day world.
00:32:54
Speaker
um That's kind of the vibe I'm getting. And the whole conversation around diversity and inclusion, you know it's it's so true. the The astronauts on the ISS are from all different walks of life, all around the world.
00:33:08
Speaker
They have to figure out how to problem solve together and how to live together and just put up with each other. And I don't know if people, again, in everyday life are taught some of that, you know.
00:33:22
Speaker
um So, yeah, it'd be interesting to kind of get Susan into, you know, a ground terrestrial based training situation where ah maybe we could use her support.
00:33:34
Speaker
I think it's really interesting that... astronaut training is not just spinning around in a centrifuge and, um, doing the survival stuff and the operation stuff, the technical stuff, knowing, you know, how to interact with the various computer modules and technical machinery that there are on a spacecraft.
00:33:56
Speaker
Um, it there's There is that whole personality and um social skills that you need. that yeah I never really considered that as a huge factor, but of course it is.
00:34:09
Speaker
Those are the things, those are the, you know, people often say about when you work at a workplace, the most important thing is the people that you work with because you spend more time with the people you work with than your family in many respects.
00:34:27
Speaker
So like yeah take that and then put them in space for six months, seeing each other every day. You can't escape. You can't escape each other. Exactly.
00:34:38
Speaker
Exactly. that I think just thinking about my job and and like the people I work with, maybe it would be good to have some sort of these skills where I could...
00:34:50
Speaker
you know ah understand where people are coming from and not get so easily frustrated with with uh yeah the way people do things um yeah so I'm I'm definitely up for for some of this astronaut training yep me too um I'm so on board especially that you know stress and anxiety stuff because uh there are definitely times it'd be nice to kind of have the skill set to understand how to manage manage those stressful times and and to learn that from an astronaut instructor as well yes exactly even better yeah and i want this personality quiz i want to know what am i because i'm not a plant i'm not a plant i think i've done the the disc one as well um have you i'm getting confused with with disc and the colors one have you done the colors one
00:35:42
Speaker
colours one. I remember one that gives you like ah gives you some letters, like an ENTJ or something. Yeah, that's the Myers-Briggs. Myers-Briggs, yeah, okay. yeah I remember doing that one ages ago.
00:35:56
Speaker
um I don't think I've done the colours one. That gives you what, like a colour? Yeah, so you've got red, blue, green or yellow. and you might be a little bit of all of them or two dominant ones or usually one dominant one and each colour has like a profile a personality profile I think we should um continue this I think we should do some training with Susan if she's up for it where we all do a personality test and she can talk us through the results great idea
00:36:31
Speaker
what what have you got planned for the rest of the day Um, I, I better respond to some of these, uh, messages I'm getting from ground control about something being broken outside. So, uh, she'll probably, she'll probably take a look at that. I think, uh, before something else starts, starts, starts beeping or the alarm goes off or something.
Wrapping Up the Conversation
00:36:48
Speaker
So, um, that's going to keep me busy, but, uh, how about you? What have you got planned for the rest of the day?
00:36:53
Speaker
Well, I think I'm going to completely change the interior design now that it's been described as rustic. and Yes. Yeah. I can't have that. no that's not what I want.
00:37:06
Speaker
All right, Nish. Well, thank you to all of our lovely listeners. Thanks for checking in again. As always, please do check us out on LinkedIn. Send us your your thoughts on the podcast.
00:37:19
Speaker
Any questions you have, we'd love to answer them in future episodes.
00:37:30
Speaker
A very happy day. Goodbye. Peace out.