Transcript
Speaker: What is this? What are we doing here? Who are these guys? Who are these guys? Hey! We just took a little break, you know? Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker: We ghosted on you guys. Was it the entire summer?
Speaker: It was like mid to late June. So it was like July, August, basically. July, August. A two-month hiatus. We went to summer hibernation. Not really. Both of us were very busy.
Speaker: Yeah, we were both in and doing projects that just demanded a lot of time. Way more energy than I thought they would initially. So we just finished we just finished the run of the Breck Comedy's Poe Party literally on Saturday. We're recording this on Tuesday. So yeah two days ago that James choreographed and intimately involved in the staging of. Yeah.
Speaker: And then closed the Stargate Show Tomb Quest the the the Sunday before that, and those were happening concurrently. And I really underestimated the energy expenditure what that would feel like.
Speaker: Especially because in in your case for Tomb Quest, For those who haven't seen it, you, there was only six people, seven people in the show, but six were on stage pretty much the entire time. And that to be in a full musical on stage, just the six of you for, you know, two and a half hours ish. That's a lot of energy and stamina that, That's that's the part I underestimated because in my head I was like, well, there's certain moments of the show where, oh, we're doing a lot now. But a lot of it, we're sitting and reacting. But I i underestimated how much being on stage and just being in the show and reacting and being present, you don't really feel it at the time. But then after you feel the weight of that, I noticed I was tracking like my sleep throughout this process.
Speaker: I just was requiring at least two more hours of sleep than normal. And my heart rate was significantly higher during the process. I think it was just like genuine stress and adrenaline.
Speaker: And I didn't do, you know, I had a pretty, somewhat of a princess track in Poe Party, but even just being there and like getting into costume and like, yeah, I just, i the feeling I had on Monday when I, or Sunday when I woke up was like,
Speaker: this is the most tired in a way that sleep can't quite fix, if that makes sense. Oh, ah yes, yes. Just time, time and like decompression. Because I had the last two days off.
Speaker: um But so ah while I wasn't in an an additional show, I also have a day job. So I was either at that job or at Poe party rehearsals. And I remember one of my coworkers was asking me, Oh, like, what did you do in your day off? And I said, I don't have days off. I just have days that I'm not here.
Speaker: Yes. so at no point was I just like relaxing and enjoying my summer And, you know, didn't take any vacations. you know, I was just either doing a lot of busy work or choreographing the show, fixing this moment. Then we get to tech and that was its own beast. It like it truly it's not until you close a show that you're like, oh, this is what it feels like to be human again. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. It's. um I mean, I've done shows, but doing the two and doing one where it's mostly all on stage and then it's a level of like exhaustion that i I've never genuinely never felt before.
Speaker: And it feels distinctly different than like, oh, I'm tired because i exercise really hard or I had a long weekend. It's like it's it's a very specific parasympathetic, like nervous kind of thing. So I've just spent the last two days kind of.
Speaker: just not doing anything. Totally. But, but to go back to it for a second, how, how did you feel about your Tomb Quest experience? Was, you know, yeah. I loved it. It was, was incredibly meaningful, know, getting to do it.
Speaker: Everybody in the show, amazing, but like also getting to do it specifically with Kim, who I'm married to was awesome. Getting to share that experience and kind of do it, be in the trenches together. it was just a really like meaningful show for both of us on a thematic level, just as like the idea of friends,
Speaker: Even many years later going, are we going to keep making space and time to get together and create? And it's like so many of the conversations that we have together when we're asking ourselves, what we want the next five years of our life to look like? Ten years.
Speaker: you know last year and a half has been, has been us coming back to, I think we're going to continue to prioritize trying to be creative and trying to be artists and trying to tell stories. And the show is kind of about that. And so it felt like a really specific examination of this thing that we've been talking about for the last year and a half. And it was just really lovely. we We both the last week, and I think we're kind of overwhelmed.
Speaker: We talked about it afterward. Kim was like, it just was like looking at you and going, I can't believe we get to do this together. And we met doing this, you know, night, 17 years ago. And like the fact that we get to do this together, it was like really meaningful um in a very deep and profound way that I'm not even sure the audience will, I don't know what they were picking up, but that was just kind of our experience. um It was just a, it was a lovely group. And,
Speaker: It was maybe one of the most just chill and relaxed and fun experiences that I've had doing theater. So I i um i loved that i thought it. I thought it was really special.
Speaker: Yeah, i got I had the pleasure of seeing it twice because I saw with your cast and then also because of the whole shipwreck of it all. um when When you guys were out, I got to see the understudies as well. And yeah and I know most of them too. So it was great to see so many friends do the same show. and ah and And I love seeing that because it did feel like a different show.
Speaker: yeah Obviously, line deliveries are a little bit different. ah So the pacing might be a little... different, but it makes it so fun because you see like the core of what the show is and how people interpret that. And um i was just, I, it's just a funny, it's a heartwarming show. I really enjoyed the creativity of it. um Yeah. you guys I was doing so because of, there were several, there was kind of a lot of things yeah happening at once, but Before we'd even gone into tech for po Party, there was a few shows where they all the understudies like were guaranteed a performance. And so there was this one show that I did where it was just Kim and I and then everybody else were were the understudies. They did an amazing job.
Speaker: There's actually a really great reminder of like why theater is so miraculous and special is that it is this living, breathing thing. Because it was a completely different show from my experience. It was a good show. It was just a different show. And and I think it should be. it was like so interesting to go, wow when you say this line, it completely changes the rhythm. And if I'm alive and I'm listening and reactive, it changes how I respond. And then this whole thing changes. And I was actually a really just great reminder and being which just present and like so how much of acting is just about listening and reacting and letting a thing go where it wants to and not being married to like, this is the way it happens. Yeah.
Speaker: And that was really unique experience that I, I'm sure when I went on for John last year, I'm sure they were all having that like, Whoa, this is weird for me. I was just like, ah but it was interesting to kind of be on the other side and go like, Whoa, it's a totally different energy that I'm getting. And instead of trying to keep, Oh no, this is how I do it going. This is what it is today. How cool is this? Let's just go with it. You know, like Jenea's Sammy was, was very different than Lauren Sammy. And, James covered Joey and his Kevin was very different. And so just, it was a very, it was a really interesting experience.
Speaker: but And I, you know, and I will say, I consider, I feel very incredibly privileged and incredibly lucky that despite the conflict of the schedule, that people were willing to make it work somehow to do both. Like that felt pretty miraculous.
Speaker: So, you know, that shouldn't have worked and it seemed to work okay. Okay. I, I'm very grateful that, you know, that was like us ability despite, despite the craziness of it.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. the The whole schedule of it all, it it was kind of wild because we, yeah on my end for Poe Party, you know, we had to kind of shift our schedule around because we would rehearse with you guys during the day. And then the Tomb Quest people would have to be at the show at night. So they were just, we couldn't have everybody all the time. And so I don't think we i don't think we ran poe Party with the full cast until we had an audience.
Speaker: Yeah, it was opening night. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was an insane thing to happen in its own right. I will say it was really interesting too. I was i realized this when we closed, but Poe Party for me was the complete inverse of Tomb Quest.
Speaker: Where Poe Party, Tomb Quest was, I'm on stage the entire time. I need to stay present and just not get too tired or disconnect because there's no breaks. Yeah. Poe Party was the opposite where I was like, would walk on stage an hour into the show and be like, I'm in a show. Because I spent most of my time backstage. And so like coming on stage and like, I had several very surreal out of body moments.
Speaker: Because usually when a show starts at first, you're like, well, I'm on stage, but then you kind of you warm up into you're like, yeah, I'm on stage. Yeah. But I i was only on stage for about three minutes. So there was sometimes i walk on stage and be like, there's an audience here. What am I doing? Where am I? Who is this? What am I saying? Is that my kid? like i I had these crazy out-of-body experiences. Oh, dude, I had that because when I did a production of Clue a few years ago, my character didn't appear. Yeah, you saw that. Thank you. I didn't show up until 45 minutes into the play. That's right. when they're calling places, I'm just like chilling because don't have to be anywhere. And so, yeah. And by the so then you're just anticipating when do I go on? And then, yeah, it feels like you're shot out of a cannon because this machine has already been running without you. They're like sweating there and you're like walking. You're like, oh hi. I feel like I'm also here. How are we doing? which is It's a very, it's a completely different process. and That's what I love about theater is it's like, depending on when you come into the show and how you were in the show, it totally changes the dynamic. And all you can really do is kind of let go and go, i'm here now. Let's see what happens. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I did have a real, there was a moment, um the second to last show of, O party. Have you ever had this happen? So there's a moment in the show where my character comes out.
Speaker: He's a ghost. i don't think it's a spoiler. And i reveal some important cryptic information that becomes important for later on figuring the clues.
Speaker: And I sang the first part of it. And I literally like went, I have no idea what the, I literally went, I don't know what the next line is. I don't, And so I started working backwards going, okay, what's the last?
Speaker: There's only about 15 seconds between the first line in the second line. So in my head, I'm going, the last line is...
Speaker: Behold, behold, behold. And was like, it's always like in my head. and I was about two seconds away from I was just going to hum it. go du it's I I call that going to the white room where you're just like, you're there, you're physically there, but your mind just completely goes blank. It's that high pitched me sound between your ears. And it's just like everything that you knew, you probably don't even know your name in that moment.
Speaker: You're just like, I'm here. it's It's a strange phenomenon. It's so, and I, so I was sitting there and I, and I literally thought, you know, it just open your mouth And I did, and then the words came out, and I was like, ah. Because I was like, this is really important. It's not random. It's is specific clues to solving this whole thing.
Speaker: Yes. That's, okay, so one other understudy story. When I went on, i went on for Roger in Grease, and i had had to understudy three different characters in that production, because normally I was playing Eugene. And then I only found out I was going on for Roger like two hours before the show, and we had no rehearsal. They were just like, you have to go on. And so I but in cases like crazy, it's insane. And so in cases like that, you know, you've you've done as enough preparation as much as you can to at least know your choreography, know where you're supposed to be And then it's kind of like every time you go off stage, you're just like going through it, going through it and then hop on stage this one particular moment. And to this day, I don't remember what the line is, but um sometimes the way that I memorize lines is just getting the gist or whatever the beat is. And so that way I can like at least know thematically what needs to happen when I say this.
Speaker: You don't derail the show. Exactly. And so I remember getting into this specific scene and I think I was supposed to say something to the effect of what's the matter? Your legs don't work anymore. As if to tell tell someone to walk, like they should be walking somewhere. But I couldn't remember the exact sequence of words in this sentence. So I believe what I said was, what's the matter?
Speaker: yeah Your legs broke? like And everyone's just like, ah. That's a little meaner that we anticipated, but that's fine.
Speaker: And it's like ah no one's legs are broken. So yeah, so it's just like you kind of just do what you can in those moments and yeah try to escape the white room before it completely envelops you. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah There's something about it's like the schrodinger Schrodinger's cat of like, the fact that you know, you're being perceived also changes something in, in like, if you were by yourself backstage, you'd probably be like, know exactly what to do. And in the second you're like, I'm being watched. Everyone's judging me. Oh, my God. It's like your brain, it's hard to turn that part of it.
Speaker: Absolutely. um And the one thing I will say, so on my end as a choreographer, because, you know, rehearsals are are ah one thing, you know, I'm going in every day teaching a new number, finessing it with whatever rehearsal time we have. And then you get to tech. And I just got to say, be patient with your creatives during tech rehearsals, because.
Speaker: There, you know, it's it's tedious and there's a lot of hurry up and wait when you're on stage and you're waiting for lights to work and all the tech to come together. But in the house, everyone is probably stressed out. There's a lot of conversations that are having. There's a lot of things that weren't working the way they're supposed to. There's a lot of logistics that are going on, things that worked in the rehearsal room and don't work on stage now that you have to figure out. And I i think part of the reason I was so tired was because there were so many nights I would come home and I was fixing things while I was sleeping.
Speaker: And I'm just like sitting there waking up at 2 a.m. m thinking, oh, I can do, okay, we can go this way. We can do this. And um the amount of times Joe, our director, and I would just kind of like sidebar and try to figure out, oh, what's a better way we can go about that? Okay, okay, well, let's just try that. And so the fact that any show comes together is proof that there is some sort of higher power. because yeah It's this weird alchemy that... donut i don't know what it is, and maybe it's just... It is the knowing the audience is there, but it's like this weird alchemy. And maybe there's examples where people can point to me and i actually know the show completely fell apart. It was a disaster.
Speaker: Almost every time I've been in a project where everyone feels that stress, Lance gets there, and then everyone just... it It just, it I don't know. It's kind of this weird thing. And I've actually started to try to trust that when I'm feeling stress in projects and go, you know what?
Speaker: Yes, there's a lot to be done, but I do know that we're going to get there and it's going to be okay somehow. yeah So self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe, I don't know. But um also I was talking to Joe about this too. It's like, you know, theater is so strange because with film, you just got to get it right one time.
Speaker: but You just got to, you just, enough duct tape and kind of, okay, just do what we got. Is it focused? Let's move on. The theater is so tedious in the process because you, it has to work every time. And,
Speaker: I always find it so ironic how you will spend what feels like an eternity in tech being like, we'll never get through this. And then the next thing you know, you're doing the show and it happens in two seconds. And you're like, we spent six hours setting this moment. But it's like, that's what it takes to make that two seconds just seamless and work every time. And so...
Speaker: It's a good like creative reminder that you put in way more work than anybody will ever know into something that in the moment seems effortless and seamless. you're like You have no idea how much work and conceptual brainpower went into making that thing that you just kind of went, wow, great. You went, that was eight eight hours of people sitting around going, oh my man so uh so to everyone listening right now that's why we disappeared for two months that's why we we're really busy doing great live theater that many of you actually had a chance to see so thank you for a lot of people came doubled up on that last weekend like people came and saw double feature of both that was really special so yeah thank you for supporting it and and there's going to be more ways to support there'll be digital tickets and there's
Speaker: Pro shots and all kinds of things. so Yeah. So, um yeah, thank you. um Real quick rapid fire because I know we were both busy, but I know we both saw things. These aren't our intos this week. But do do can you kind of recall what you um consumed in the last two months? Because right at the top of my head, I know I can say Mexodus.
Speaker: which was fantastic. I could have seen that. It looks good. If you ever heard of Mexodus, it's a wonderful musical to, ah to I'm assuming they're friends. They have to be, they, I think they met on a writer's retreat and then they just kind of vibe together. And then they created the show that talks about both ah African-American and Mexican history. and how that melds into a story that's enshrined in American history.
Speaker: um So if you they're touring the show, the two guys aren't necessarily doing every show. i know they um they do it. They have another cast that is doing the show on this tour. But if you happen to see it, it's really fun. They are live looping their music on stage. So they're building the show as you're watching it.
Speaker: Really impressive stuff. i Highly recommend seeing Exodus. Enough that I saw emotionally movies. I saw The Odyssey twice. Yeah. Fan.
Speaker: Teenage Sex and Death. It Can't Me Asma. saw End of Oak Street. Saw The Invite, which is my favorite movie of the year so far. So good. So good. And last night I saw Buddy, which I loved.
Speaker: I know that's right up the rally. It a movie. It's like I went, you made a movie just for me. Yeah. I remember seeing that trailer. I was like, Kurt's going to love this. Dude.
Speaker: Oh, it is so. It's if if it's like it's the feature we could make if we could make space baby into a feature. That's that's the that's what we would do. Genuinely loved it. I thought it was great. yeah um Back to the Odyssey for a second, which we don't need to actually talk about the movie because everyone has already done that to death. but um What I want to talk about is the 4DX. I didn't see that in 4DX, but it made me want to so badly because I don't think I've seen another film
Speaker: was 40X around when Inception came out? I think it's pretty, i think it's somewhat in the last few years. I've only ever done it once. i did it for Top Gun Maverick. And that was the only way that Kim has seen that movie. saw it twice and I said, Kim, for my birthday, I'd love to go see this in 40X. And she went, all right. And then at the end of the movie, she was like,
Speaker: Only reason I sat through this is because it was for your birthday. Just like seeing, especially the video clips that were coming out of the Odyssey. I mean, you're watching people, that their popcorn is flying out you know yeah onto the floor and ah ah their drinks are spilling everywhere. to me, as an adrenaline junkie, that sounds like my favorite roller coaster.
Speaker: So I'm actually looking forward to seeing some, I need to see something in 40X. I don't know what, but I'm going to find a movie to go. there's ah There's a hilarious moment in Top Gun and Maverick where he gets thrown out of the bar.
Speaker: he gets like into kind of like a bar fight. He gets tossed.
Speaker: The seat has these like little... i don't even know what's i don't know what they are, but feels like little fists. And as he got thrown into the sand, the back of the seat just went poof.
Speaker: You're like, what the hell? I'm actually getting beat up at the movie theater. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's actually, I will agree. It's been a really fun summer for a lot of movies, um some stuff, but um if I can segue to what I'm into, please do. um There's some fun TV that's been happening.
Speaker: And i'm I'm going to come out as a a big enjoyer of the FX series Adults. I like it too. Yeah. I think it's really funny.
Speaker: i think it's really There's been some weird discourse about it on Twitter in the last like week or two. Okay. when is the I'll share the discourse once you talk about why it's great. I think it's great. There's always some discourse on Twitter and it's probably stupid. Okay. So Adults, let's talk about this because – I was trying to figure out I have this affinity for ensemble comedies anyway.
Speaker: You know, growing up in the 90s, we had Fresh Prince. I loved living single. Family Matters. um I wasn't a big friends enjoyer. ah For some reason, that one wasn't as big for me.
Speaker: um And you can this is a space. This is a safest space. No one's watching. No one knows me too. Yeah, I understand conceptually why Friends is funny, but then I watch it and I go, yes, that was a joke.
Speaker: I recognize that that was a joke. This is where the laughter comes in. And i've I just, I feel, and it's like everybody in the show is is doing great. job It's just something about it. i always I've always felt at an arm's length and a lot of people that I know, it's it's their comfort show. It's like they can quote every line. I've always been like, I don't.
Speaker: No, but but that's like The Office for me where people will watch The Office and be like, I don't get it, dude. And I'm like, it's the best thing. It's the funniest thing. So it's like we all have our thing. So it's not a quality. It is a just brain taste thing. But anyway, yeah so kindred spirits. Kindred spirits. Yes. So, okay. Thank you. You get it. So so knowing that, I actually, before I talk about adults, there's another show that's in between all of this that I realized is what makes me like adults. Did you ever watch Happy Endings?
Speaker: Yeah, I love that show. Happy Endings. Genuinely love that. And the other two. ever watched the other two? And the other two. Yes, the other two. But Happy Endings, highly underrated ABC sitcom.
Speaker: Alicia Cuthbert, right? Yes, yes. Yeah, I love that show. i I, for years, told my agent, I was like, please get me on Happy Endings. This is the kind of show I was born to be on. And then it got canceled. so And then it got canceled. So it was one of those shows that... um it was It was in the same vein as a bunch of, I think, six 20-somethings living in a city, figuring out adulthood. you know But theirs was a little – I mean, it was a little more made for ABC. It's little more family-friendly, broad comedy. The storylines are a little bit – ah exaggerated and sometimes a few of the characters could get a little bit ah more of a, um I'd say they, they flanderized a little bit, a little bit, but not so much in a way that it was annoying. I think there was just a lot of personality. There's a lot of fun in that show and um it, it had an audience and there's still people to this day that like you and I who will swear by it being a fantastically underrated show. um But it just didn't have that long of a life.
Speaker: I believe that show is why I love adults. Now, adults on FX, it definitely has a much more cruder tone. A perfect example is the pilot episode that had a lot of attention that um it it was not testing well. It was got a little aggressive. I think there was some ah some masturbation that was happening in the in the first in the pilot episode.
Speaker: But it's also like, it's crude, but it's also very goofy, like, bleat. So it's like it's weird, because i I also, for the same way, where i was like, this show's not crude. and then i was like, I guess it is. But they're all like,
Speaker: It's very like sweet in the way that it's crude in a way that doesn't feel like it's like, yeah, you want to see some messed, you want to see something edgy. I think it's got a really light touch to it.
Speaker: Unintended. ah hey The pilot episode. Okay. ah But ah sorry, continue. But like, yes, i the the tone is interesting to me. Yeah, the tone is... So here's the thing. like I think we're still dealing dealing with some broad characters, broad comedy.
Speaker: um I'm not necessarily looking at this show to give me some realistic depiction of what it is to be a 20-something in America, considering the show is actually filmed in Toronto, but they say it's...
Speaker: um in New York. yeah but but But what I love about it is it it reminds me of this fantasy that I had when I was a teenager of like, oh, is this what being in your 20s is like? Like you're just with your friends and everyone's living in a house. And and i do I do remember romanticizing that kind of friendship with a group of people and wanting this close-knit group. um And then you're always on adventures together. To me, like watching...
Speaker: something like happy endings or adults, it gives me a comfort in just knowing that there's like a friend group that's just out there and hanging out and experiencing life together. um That being said, kind of what you were saying about happy endings, I would love to be on a show like adults. I think there's just so much fun to be had. the characters are really in a way like as as broad as they may be, they're grounded because I know people like that. I feel like everyone on this show, you know, someone that's like that. And so it just, that's what also makes it so ah familiar.
Speaker: i really think it's one of the better comedies to come out in recent years for television. I literally, when I watched the first season, I had this existential crisis of This is going to be really really deep cut. But 2018, I actively walked away from like engaging in the kind of comedy scene of l a My whole life was sketch, UCB, Second City, every comedy web series, whatever.
Speaker: podcasts and I just I got burned out by it and I started doing shows with friends TCB's Darkin and I went this is what I want to do I like I want to make a show that I'm really proud of I don't want to just run myself ragged trying to chase down this comedy scene but then I watched a show like adults and I went well should I have stayed in that scene so I could be on a show like this because like a lot of them are from that world and I was like And literally told my agent, I was like, if there's ever a role, knowing full well, I'm probably too old for the show. was like, I can be, I can be the gag. I can be in my thirties trying to be too, whatever. But there's been a controversy, not controversy, whatever, discourse online in the last few weeks on Twitter about the show as it premiered of people being like, oh, it's so cringe. And like, you know,
Speaker: i the The sentiment I think that people had was like, people talk like they're telling jokes in the show. And I'm like, yeah, it's called a sitcom. I i miss sitcoms. I miss, and somebody and somebody was like, well, might i might i offer the idea that it would be funnier if there was actually a laugh track? It's like they they play the jokes like there's a laugh track to prison. And i'm like, I don't know.
Speaker: I think the show is actually pretty grounded and and has these really sweet, sentimental and lovely moments, but I want more sitcoms on TV. And I want to, I want to live in a world where we can have sitcoms with really interesting, funny characters going on adventures where it's not about living the world where it's like, that's what's so fun about adults. Every episode is like, what easy thing are they going to get into today? What's this weird thing that they're going to deal with? And i don't, I don't know if you watched the, um,
Speaker: wasn't like a filler episode, but it was kind of like a bridge episode. It was like a flashback. Kind of made a prequel that yeah now serves as the first episode of season one now. And it's like so fun to be like, the situation this is like running a marathon and he lied about it. And it's like, there's like all these, what makes sitcoms so fun is I love these people. Let's throw them into situations and see what happens. And I, yeah, I think it's great. I genuinely like watched it and went, this is exactly the kind of show This would be my like dream kind of show to be on. Another show that I love, it gets a little bit more surreal, but it feels like it scratches that itch, is Search Party. know if you saw Search Party. I haven't, and i I've heard that. it's like So season one's a little more grounded, but then as the seasons go on, they kind of they kind of go...
Speaker: place And the the premise is a bit more like somebody goes missing. And so there's a more of like, what happened? But similar thing where it's like the kind of performances and style and tonally.
Speaker: it's my It's that genre of comedy where we're not doing full multicam sitcom, but these characters are genuinely funny and have really specifically odd ways that they see the world. And i'm I'm a big fan. I think it's great. That guy, the guy who plays Paul Baker, auditioned for two things that I got callbacks for that he ended up booking. So now I'm like, oh, I can never. This guy, he's too funny and good looking and successful.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. not you've You've met your your new, i don't know, i'm not match, not doppelganger, but whoever he is, he's your nemesis. It's a great show. I'm i'm a big fan.
Speaker: so Something you brought up about wanting more sitcoms, more comedies. And I agree with that because I'd also talked about before ah lamenting about the um the rom-com exists right now. A lot of them end up going straight to Netflix, straight to Prime. yeah We don't get wide releases. I think what was that one that just came out? One Night Only. I think that's.
Speaker: That got a theatrical release, um even though that's also a really strange premise. But ah someone brought up an interesting point. I think ah i read on threads or something where they were saying that it's hard for comedies to exist right now because a lot of people can can just get their comedies from Reels and TikTok.
Speaker: And it's on their phone. So if you're already laughing on your phone, you really don't need anything else. And so I don't, I know I'm not out here as a writer trying to pitch comedy. So I I can't speak on how hard it is to get something made, but it's true. You're up against a constant factory of an algorithm feeding you funny people and characters. Where do, where are the people who I, you know, that watch the stuff that we make? It's like, they're watching, they're watching dropout. They're watching Smosh. They're watching,
Speaker: They're watching sketch stuff. And and yeah, and and I go, I don't know if a lot of the a lot of people are tuning in to a weekly episodic thing the way that I think for us. i don't know if it's an age thing, but like that feels, episodic TV shows still feels like it holds a weight of like, oh, this is a TV show.
Speaker: I just don't know if a lot of maybe younger audiences, I just don't think they look at it as... something better than they're just like, it's another thing you could watch where I think we're like, Oh, but he show maybe it's because we're actors too. And we understand like, when you get an audition for the lead in TV show, that's a like a life changing opportunity versus like, you want to come be in a sketch this weekend? And you go, sure. That's fun. it lives on the internet. If it makes a bunch of views, I don't get any, I don't get, so it's like, we wait I just, but I don't know if a lot of people watching nowadays see it that way.
Speaker: yeah Like I, you know, I think maybe lot of it is people are like, I kind of love the people. Like i I wonder if people watching Smosh kind of get what they get out of a sitcom because they're like, here's my favorite people. And they're hanging out and they're doing a podcast and it's so fun and they're so funny.
Speaker: And they're kind of getting the same thing that we got. from the characters we watched. I don't know, am I onto something with that? Well, I think you are. And I think a perfect example of that is, look at StarKid's pantheon of shows. People have this relationship with the characters,
Speaker: The characters. But then because it's been a long standing thing of like, oh, but I've watched this actor do this for 20 years. So now there's kind of this like, OK, well, i want to see them do that thing. And now the other version of that is um if you're looking at a content creator or whoever who just might have ah had a small following, but then they kind of blew up. Jack in and in from adults is a perfect example. He started as just making videos on TikTok. And now he's the lead on adults. He's you know taken up two of your roles that you probably should have got one day. you know like but He's great. I love him, by the way. He's extremely talented.
Speaker: He's very talented. But like but he he got discovered because he had a following. And so now that's the new version of it is whereas we were already watching you when you were in the show. Now it's like, well, now we can watch you on our phone and then hopefully blow up and now we'll follow you to the bigger, the bigger project.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, I think the social currency has kind of changed the way that we um view celebrity and then view the worth of a show. And as the actors, That also affects us because sometimes we're not considered for things because we don't have the following. And and that is also a reality of our the industry currently.
Speaker: Would you like to know, i have a reminders list here of things to work on this week and one of the reminders is make plan to boost social media. I think last night I was like, i don't know. i was talking to somebody about who gets invited into what and whatever. And I was like, I gotta get my, I gotta, I gotta get my number. And I was like, I wrote that reminder. What I'm going to do with that reminder, who can say. Listen, I mean, they're ever present there are classes you can take. There are you know, people, i mean, hell, you can buy your followers if you really wanted to. But um yeah, I, and I, yeah i was, i was talking to Mariah about this actually.
Speaker: Um, I don't have it in my body to be an influencer or a content creator. That's just like... oh That's not what I'm meant to do. dar i And I know that because anytime I've tried, i immediately hate what I'm doing.
Speaker: And unfortunately... To do that, it's like I have it in my body and my in my work ethic to put pour myself into something. But it's for a project that I go, okay, we did it. That's the best we can do.
Speaker: That's not a sustainable model to turn out a thing three times a week. And so, yeah, it's such it's such a strange – I mean, it's literally what I said. Like in 2018, went – when I did Spies are Forever, I went, I'm so proud of this.
Speaker: Could it be better? Sure. But I'm proud that it exists as this singular story. And I was like, so fulfilled by like, wow, we spent six weeks making this thing and now it exists.
Speaker: And it was a contrast to the, hey will you come on my like sketch thing and we'll do a thing in an hour and we'll post it. And it was just this constant grind of like, i was doing this bit, this bit, this bit, doing this improv show, doing this sketch thing, where I was running myself ragged, but then I'd go, i have nothing that I'm actually that proud of to share.
Speaker: Like a few bits in here and there. I go, that's kind of funny. but But in the process of doing that, a lot of people a lot of people kept doing that and have not had success, to be clear. Because obviously we only know about the ones who are successful.
Speaker: But then there are a lot of people in the comedy scene who did... God bless them, grind that, grind it out and did a lot of stuff. They probably are like, eh, and then found something, found an opportunity, found like, you know, so I don't know, everyone has a different path. And I think at the end of the day, you go, even if somebody else did something to success, if you know that it would like not align with your goal and creative aesthetic, even if you did exactly the same thing as them, it probably wouldn't translate into something like,
Speaker: That you want, you know? Totally. that Okay, so that a real quick tangent. So about that, I, the other day, had this like crazy dream. And sadly, my first thought was, okay, I should make a video of this because it'll probably do well. And i was like, I don't want to make a video of this. I don't want to make a video about this. It's not going to land the way that I want it to. And so I chose to just write it on threads.
Speaker: Yeah. Three parts. And so I put it on threads. That exists there. But then I made an Instagram post of like three slides of that same thread. And it got so much attention on Instagram, which is funny because they tell you now Instagram won't push regular pictures. They're mostly trying to put reels out.
Speaker: um And also, like it's not like it's not a shirtless pic. It's not you know anything salacious. It's just literally a copy-paste of the thread. And it got so much exposure. And I was like, see, that's what I want. like I want to be able to write my stuff and then like land the joke. and then Because I know it'll translate that way way better than me trying to make some 60-second video that will probably be seen by 100 people.
Speaker: and I've had a kind of breakthrough...
Speaker: recently I'm not doing crazy numbers or anything, but on my YouTube channel, I i really enjoy talking about movies. And I was like, tried vlogging and I just, yeah take it's not for me. People are great at it. I'm not just, and I, and I kept, I was posting videos about creativity and like 200 people would watch it, which is fine. But like, and so what I started doing is I started writing and I started writing about movies and talking about movies, not like a, was it good? Was it bad? But what did a movie make me feel about and think about in my own life? So kind of a movie is a conversation to a bigger idea. i've done this now four times.
Speaker: kind of was the most intuitive and least amount of, oh, is it going to work? And just the most me. And those videos have done better. Not crazy, but like seven, 8,000 views with like hundreds of comments. And I went, oh my God, it's because I'm, it's because I'm putting out there what is the most genuine. I'm not having to work at this. I'm not having to like stress over. What do I say? I'm just genuinely going, like I i made a video I say about like,
Speaker: Odyssey made me think about failure and like my own life and like, the movie was good. I liked it. But really what I took from it was it made me think about this and like speaking from a personal place seems to really be finding the people that I want to find. And so that's kind of given me some solace recently of like, okay, think there are avenues to do what you're aligned with. You don't have to just chase down what you see somebody else doing and go, I got to make that work for me. And that's, in fact, doing that, it's it's almost like,
Speaker: It's almost like, would you want to run a business that you would hate going to every day, even if it made you a lot of money, but you hated doing it? Probably not. yeah And so, yeah.
Speaker: See, this is – and this is why I think I like shows like Adults or really just sitcoms in general because I think comedy relies on a sense of vulnerability and you have to be able to poke fun at yourself. And and as much as this current generation is saying that cringe isn't cool, it's like, yeah, but like sometimes it's those cringey moments that are the most human. And I think that i think authenticity is is seen as a weakness where in reality, I think that's the most connected we could be is to show a genuine i like, hey, this is who I am today. And I messed up or here's this funny thing. that i did And so that's why those certain TikToks work. That's why certain reels work. But that's why certain shows work, too, because there's a reality in that. That is not fabricated. It's not this perfect, pristine picture of this influencer, but rather here's the messiness of life and a funny way to look at it. So maybe if we could get back to wanting that and and stop being so worried about looking cringe, we'd probably be in a better spot.
Speaker: Absolutely. it's hard It's hard. It's hard because...
Speaker: it's like you go, well, if this person did it and it led to this outcome. Why can't I do it? And you go, the difference is it's you. You're the difference. And that's why it will be a different outcome because you exist. Yeah. That's, that's a hard, that's hard. That's hard. Cause then, cause then you start attributing it to failure. Like, oh, so I'm the reason it doesn't work. And you're like well, not because you're failure, just because it's, this is not,
Speaker: this is not for you. you know right It's hard. I think about this a lot. Speaking of being a failure. Here we go. I have an i have an in into that I want to share this week.
Speaker: Please. And I know we started talking about video games a little bit more on this podcast before we took our hiatus, but want to talk a little bit about me returning to the From Software game Elden Ring.
Speaker: hey Yeah. And failing at it so many times. um It's actually, this is a nice segue. This actually works out really well. i Okay, it great. Yeah.
Speaker: I've always thought I was really bad at video games. that's That's what I've always told myself because when I was a kid, i was' i i didn't play video games. i didn't have access to them. And so when I did play them, I'd be at a friend's house.
Speaker: Friends would be prolifically good at them. They'd hand me the controller. I'd die. Everybody would laugh at me. I'd jump into like a you know multiplayer situation. I'd get shot in two seconds. I always just felt kind of stupid about it.
Speaker: And not that I need to be good at video games to like feel good about myself, but... I've always been like, I'm not good at games. I'm not good at puzzles. I just, I can't, I'm not good at it. I watched this really beautiful essay. There's a YouTuber I love, and I don't know, remember his name right now, but he does these really fun experiments where he he has his wife, who is not a gamer, play really difficult games to kind of analyze like how she intuitively moves through the world. And he did one where he's like, my wife played a bunch of Dark Souls games. So if you're not familiar with From Software games,
Speaker: FromSoftware makes notoriously difficult games that are all about learning patterns and and like grinding through failure. You cannot, in a FromSoft game, unless you do some crazy like kind of you know finding a way to level up your character through kind of like weird hacks, if you play the way the game is made to be played,
Speaker: you will get killed over and over and over and over and over. And in fact, the first big bad in Elden Ring is this giant tree sentinel. And you walk out and you're like, that guy looks tough. I'm going fight him. And he kills you in one hit. And you go...
Speaker: damn And I remember when I first, everyone had talked about this game. and Everyone, you know, it came out four years ago. Everybody's like, oh, it's a masterpiece, one of the best games ever. And I would read these read these articles or watch these videos about people talking about discovering this this real joy of of of exploration mastery. and I like, the idea enamored me. But every time I've played, I i would just try ah kind of hack and slash my way through and I get so mad and angry whatever.
Speaker: when the show closed last week, or no, on Saturday night, for like months, I haven't watched many movies, I haven't played many games. And for whatever reason, I just had this idea in my head of like, I want to, also, I've been on a journey of trying to ah exercise my brain again. I've been trying to read more.
Speaker: And i read an article recently about like, that playing really difficult games can actually be really good for neuroplasticity. Like it it actually forces you to like work parts of your brain that ah often as adults, you're like, most of the things you do as an adult are pretty like, Hey, I know what I do. I know what my job is. Everything is kind of optimized. And then actually introducing stuff into your life that is inherently difficult and challenging. And I was like, well, I don't really want to do a bunch of things in real life that I got to fail at. So I was like, how about a video game? Yeah.
Speaker: So over the past like four or five days, starting on Saturday night, it's only Tuesday. So wow, like it's only been three days. Time is a construct. I decided to try to play From Software's Elden Ring, a four-year-old game that many consider one of the best games of all time, and really...
Speaker: Meet the game where it wanted it wants you to be. Like, really go, okay, I'm going to learn how to play this and not try to rush through and not try to just jump around and, like, jump to the next level, but I'm really going to...
Speaker: learn how to be good at this game. And one of the reasons I was really interested is because Tomb Quest, it takes place, you know, it's a very, takes place in a basement with friends, but the story they're telling in in the world is this very fantastical descending down into dungeons. And I was like, man, I want to like, i want to play a game that's kind of what Tomb Quest the game was. I was like, I just, we've been spending all this time imagining, know,
Speaker: underground taverns and caverns and and dragons and all these things and i was like i want to like live in that world as a way to kind of i don't know say goodbye to this experience i don't know if you can i think you can relate to that kind of want to yeah so anyway so i sat down and i started playing elden elden ring the right way yeah And one of the challenges with Elden Ring, if anybody's played, is that when you encounter, have you ever played any from software games, James? No, because I was actually looking up the list. Well, okay, technically I have put in the disc of Dark Souls 1.
Speaker: one And i I moved through it to say that I played the game would be lying to you. And I don't want to do that. Gotcha, gotcha. yes One of the crazy things with FromSoft games is there's like little enemies here and there out and about that, you know, you can fight and take on.
Speaker: The bosses in FromSoft games are notoriously the insane. Like, you will go into an arena and the boss will be like,
Speaker: flipping around and jumping and they have these crazy attack patterns and the whole thing with getting good at these games is you learn you have to spend time dying over and over and learning the attack patterns learning when they present an opening learning when they have a hit that you just cannot sustain so instead of trying to defend it you roll away like grinding it out in a way that I have never done with the game. I've always just been like, oh, if I can't be good at it, like, i don't want to do it. I, this challenge I gave myself for whatever reason was, wait a minute.
Speaker: That's the point. The point is to get good at something that's really uncomfortable. And everybody said on the other side of that, you get to experience something really cool. And I was like, i want that. I want to experience that. I had a few days.
Speaker: i spent the last few days playing it. And I got to tell you, This may be my favorite game of all time. Oh. It is extraordinary. I've only been playing for... I played a build about a year and a half ago for like 20 hours where I tried to fight a boss. I'd die and I'd do like, whatever. I'd leave and be I'll come back. I never could beat anybody. I just kind of ran around. i didn't really know what I was doing. And I was like, this is stupid. Like, what am I doing? This time I've actually been going, I'm going to do the next the next thing, the next thing. When it says, okay, you can't fight this boss. Be like, okay, I'm going to go on a power up and a level up.
Speaker: I have beat like now like five bosses. And I got to tell you, the feeling you get when you've died 30 times and that 31st time, you like go into a flow state and you're like,
Speaker: retreat, attack, roll, this attack, always jumping. this is the When you like nail that and you're not even thinking about it and you're just kind of flow state, it is similarly similar to the sensation I get when you're in a show on stage and you just feel like you are in that zone where you were like,
Speaker: I'm not even, I'm just reacting and responding and you feel like kind of like a superhero. Absolutely. it's incredible. And then, and then, and then you'll feel that way. And the next boss you encounter, you get killed in one hit and you're like, ah, then you kind of have to go back, back to that. I don't know how long I'm going to keep playing this. Cause I have a lot that I need to do in the next month, but it has been so satisfying To go out and go, what is one of the hardest games ever?
Speaker: Apparently, From Software Games are notoriously difficult, and Elden Ring is not the hardest, but it's like a hard game. And to go, I'm going to learn how to try to get good at this. I don't think I'm good at it yet, but I'm so much better than I was. and all of a sudden, I'm experiencing this joy of like was like, I'm playing as a samurai, and I'm like, that was the coolest thing I've ever done. I did this flip, and I rolled, and I did And I was like, this is the joy that I've never, I've never experienced this joy playing games, James, ever.
Speaker: I've only ever been like, I'm stupid. I'm dumb. i guess I need a story-based game because I can't be good at games. Maybe I can. Maybe I can. So anyway, this has been my, uh, my in into for the last like four days. I, I started to get on Saturday and then Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. That's what I've been doing as I've been decompressing from the summer of shows. Have you ever played God of War, any of the games in that franchise? I have played the first one, yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so the evolution of that game was very interesting because by by the time it got to PS4 and now PS5, they kind of changed the game engine a little bit and the the playing style is slightly different. There are some of the similar buttons, but um it became more of a...
Speaker: a true RPG in which you're you're leveling up, you're getting certain mana, you know, your your your armor can change ah your you have your skill tree and all that stuff. And that was my first introduction, understanding that those kind of games, takes patience and time. Yes. And that failure is a part of that. Because you learn what how to make the correct build for your playing style, which then you're rewarded by paying attention. When you pay attention to that, it then leads you to getting those those ah those victories. um And I don't think if i if I had not played those games, I would not have enjoyed Claire Obscure Expedition 33 the way that I did. And I highly recommend you play that because i don't think you've played that one yet.
Speaker: I've played the first opening with Kim and I went, this sounds awesome and I'm going to love it. And then I, for whatever reason, haven't revisited it, but it is on my list to play probably the next game. Although GTA six might happen in between there. We'll see, but GTA six will never come out anyway. So it's coming out in two months. It's coming out in two months. Did you watch the 27 minute preview? sure um um Yeah, until there's the next delay. Anyway, ah the reason I say... Talk to Sinead's husband about it. It's coming out, baby. It's coming out. he's He's been playing it for like two years. yeah See, that's what I mean. I'm so excited for GTA 6. Go ahead. But no, but going to say is that I think what the experiences that you're having with Elden Ring right now, I think will be tenfold if you play Expedition 33, because this is one of those games where I think it's all encompassing. You will encounter bosses that it will tell you right off the bat, you are not anywhere near ready to fight this guy.
Speaker: But then once you level up in certain ways, that's fine. Then when you're in certain combat, they've integrated the music into your playing because you need to listen for certain music cues to know when a certain attack is coming. And and that's one of those attention to detail things that makes the game so immersive. And, and again, like that reward that you get from ah accepting like, okay, I just have to learn which time is he swinging? Okay. i need to parry, parry, dodge, attack, you know, and it's so cool when you get that down, that flow state you're talking about. It's so worth it.
Speaker: I love games like that. It's interesting. Cause I've always thought like if the game wants to punish me and I'm going to fail, it just is not worth my time. Because that life is hard and I always want to play and have fun. But i i just I've heard people talk about that and say this the joy of doing this difficult thing that even though it's it doesn't mean anything in the overall scheme of your life, it's there's something very satisfying about going, going to do something that initially I absolutely suck at. And I'm going to do it 30 times. And then all of a sudden, going to this is easy.
Speaker: And i I've just, and I've been doing that for the last few days. And I've been like, that's really satisfying. And it is like stretching my brain in a way that I never just thought a game could. And apparently that genuinely is a real thing. Like gaming can be a really powerful way to force your brain to do hard things that it doesn't normally do, which is really good for it, especially in a world where everything is like optimized to have as little thought and challenge as possible, you know, it's like everything in our life is geared towards no friction, no friction at all.
Speaker: And so to play a game where it's like, but you're going to, you're going to die immediately and you're going to have to do it for an hour. And then maybe, maybe, maybe you'll be good enough to move on. Like that's, that seems like it shouldn't work for my brain. And I found it so satisfying in a, in a very inexplicable way. So.
Speaker: Yes, Claire, Claire obscure is gonna be next on my list. I'm excited to play that. Yeah, I mean, like, listen, like I know there's also the dopamine high of of playing video games and sure it can get addicting staying in that world. But I think there is something so cathartic about a hero's journey in a game like that. Yeah, that's why I play Hades. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll play Hades just because I know it's a there's a limit to how much I can play in a run and you will die and you learn some stuff and The only difference with that one is that they intentionally, if you turn the heat up, meaning the difficulty, um you'll never play the same game twice and you'll just die for stupid reasons, which that raises my blood pressure.
Speaker: But I still play the game because it's one of the best games ever made. So highly recommend that too. Yeah, that's awesome. i i yeah Is that on... is that on ah consoles It's on Steam. I think they have it. ah Well, at least one is on PlayStation and ah Switch, but um two is only on Switch right now.
Speaker: I think they're still waiting to get that one on ah PlayStation 5. I'm excited because i I guess I felt like this is entire... art form that has always to me been behind a fence. I've always been like, that's not for me.
Speaker: People talk about it and I go, I'll never be able to experience that joy. and I feel like in the last three days, it's like I had a breakthrough and I went, okay, well, maybe I could, if I could do this, I could do these other things. And so it's a, it's an encouragement. We talk about this a lot on on this podcast, but it's encouragement to say, Hey, step outside your comfort zone. Try something because genuinely, even though if you're like me, I was like, I will never enjoy this. i was like, I'm just going to do it until I beat the first boss. And then I beat the first boss and I was like,
Speaker: was awesome. but What if I beat the second boss? What if I beat the third? but And all of a sudden I'm like, wait, i love this. This is great. I mean, and now when I fail, I'm not, I'm not mad. I'm like, okay, right. What am I not seeing? So, you know, be open to be open to trying things like,
Speaker: It took me however many years to get here to try this game. And now I'm like, this game is awesome. Yeah. yeah yeah Yeah. I would never have played turn-based RPG. Um, it's like five years ago. They just, my, the, the, the most I would do is something like, uh, like i said, a God of war or even a Spider-Man that like, I love the Spider-Man games, but to do something where failure is baked into the journey of the game, um,
Speaker: you have to have a a certain level of patience with yourself. And maybe i just didn't discover patience until 2024. Totally. Totally. Same, same, exact, exact same. Which, you know, talking about like tech, going through tech week, whenever you go, it's a really good practice to get really comfortable being like, this is going to be tedious and suck. And then it's going to be awesome. It's a great reminder for life. Most things are going to be tedious. They're going kind of suck. And then you're going to be like, wasn't that great? Yeah. that' That is art. That is the art life in in a nutshell. Truly.
Speaker: That's great. I love that. I love that. And I love that we're talking more about video games because... That could be a fun thing maybe for us to do in the future too. That might be fun to go. We try, you know, maybe try a game you never would that you're playing. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to jump in. That could be ah could be a fun conversation for us to have. So, hey, let us know if you...
Speaker: You want us to do some like cross crossover things where we try stuff we're playing or whatever. It could be really interesting. Absolutely. Oh, you know what that reminds me? I started and have not finished because it's, it is a very difficult game.
Speaker: Hollow Knight Silksong. I've heard that's notoriously difficult. It's so hard. I, that may be questioned my abilities that yeah that i'm I'm definitely. So I will get back to that one and see how I fare.
Speaker: Um, That's great. i love that, man. That's that's really good to hear. I'm switching the gears a little bit as we finish up. But um I also i started a sub stack. cool I know you've had one for a while, um but as I was talking earlier about writing stuff, I realized that writing was always a medium that I've enjoyed and one that I yeah there was a there's an alternate reality in which I became a journalist and an English teacher.
Speaker: And um I chose not to go that route a of because I wanted to go into a ah career of crippling self-doubt and anxiety. But um but now ah I'm kind of finding that passion again for writing. And right now it's going to I just I've only posted two articles so far um and it might be some kind of journal style things. But I do think I want to get into um producing some fiction. So maybe some maybe throwing some stories up there in in a little bit. But um I think it's I'm entering this new era of wanting to find multiple ways to express my creativity rather than just auditions and doing a show. um I'm going to try to expand the horizons a little bit on what I am producing as an artist.
Speaker: love that. So that's that's that's kind of this is a roundabout way of me asking. Now that you finish this, and I know you're you're working on Miss Halloween, um but like, do you have any future goals um of things that you would like to do creatively now that you're in the afterglow of of the summer? Yeah, big thing is, yeah, finishing up this project. It's kind of, we got basically, ah basically of six weeks. And so we are in like, well, don't want crunch, but just like,
Speaker: full priority now. but That's going to be kind of taking up the bulk of it. i have this feature that I'm trying to get off the ground. It's like, or feature that takes place in a small town, Texas church that, um,
Speaker: had really good movement on, had a producer be possibly interested in producing it. So it could be like a 2027 thing, maybe like a late spring 2027. We'll see. So yeah, it's like, I want to jump into the other things, but I was like, okay, I need to stay focused, get Miss Halloween done, make sure that's good. And then kind of come up for air and go, what's next. But I do think getting a movie off the ground is kind of the next big thing.
Speaker: outside of whatever gigs I'm hired to do, that's the next big objective for 2027. And that will be difficult, but I'm going to put it out there. It's going to happen. We're going to make it happen. it We just, we just, I'm moving pieces, but don't know what I'm moving towards next.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this, um I just have a feeling this this new season of everyone's life is is about to breed some new fun energy, I think, for people. agree. That's what I'm hoping for for myself and for you. um Absolutely. Yeah. I think ah i there's still some talk about the industry kind of not being where it needs to be or where we want it. But like, also I'm hearing things are starting to pick up again. So, yeah you know, I feel like, I feel like we're in a season of some big, exciting change for people. And I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that is the case for everybody.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, go subscribe to James Substack. Boom. Go give it some links in the bio. Yeah. Yeah. I can do that. And then, and then you've got your sub sec and then should we just go ahead and wrap it up and say that you can reach out to us, sending us an email at sort, you into pod at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can also find us on Instagram and YouTube at. So what are you into pod? Thanks for hanging in there while we took our hibernation, but we are back and we'll be back with more, maybe some more friends too. We got to figure out who's coming on. So until next time, this is James. That's Kurt. And stay curious. Stay curious.
