Transcript
Speaker: Hi, this is Vince Maidens with The Authentic Voice and I've got Nick Wilcox-Brown and David Timpling with me today. How are you guys today? Hey, good afternoon. Yeah, good to see you Lovely to see you. um So we're going to cover a few things. You know, I'm big on ethics. We'll we'll get into that. But Dave, you've got this new hair book that you've self-produced.
Speaker: Yeah. I know you're many, how many, 30 plus books now? Yeah, probably 30 plus books. so All with mainstream publishers. I was going to say, you're working with mainstream publishers. What's it like to have full creative control and and ownership of it?
Speaker: It's been a really interesting creative process because it's the first time I've self-published anything. I've always... shied away from it. um But I've been thinking for a long time, i've got this vast archive of pictures. yeah I've been professional since 1992 and working on all sorts of projects over the years. And these days, with the way pictures are now in an oversupply market, the pictures aren't getting used. so They're just sitting there in an archive. And I was thinking, what can I do to
Speaker: utilize them as sets of pictures, you know, and and get them out in front of people. So ah thought, why not start a ah series in pictures? So this is the first one here, number one. And um I think I've got enough material and enough subjects to do at least 50. I've written down titles for about 50 so far. So I'm hoping they might become a little collectible. Well, you've made it at such a price point that you can't really, I mean, anybody who's into animals at all and wants quality, they're going to see that and say, this is going to be a nice Christmas gift or a gift for somebody that's into whatever whatever animal it is. yeah And the hair is so relatable. I know for me, coming from Canada, Arctic hair we have, but we don't have these and there's just such a character, right? Yes. And I live in North Norfolk, which is probably the most...
Speaker: densely populated area of the country for hares to do with the land use and lots of gamekeepers and stuff. It's a very agricultural area so it does tend to lend itself to that doesn't Yeah and shooting estates so they have big headlands where there's lots of cover they're keeping down natural predators um And, yeah, they like the big fields. yeah And we're quite a dry area of the country as well. And you get quite high mortality of leverets in wet, cold springs. You know, it's it's it's quite pleasant. So the habitat is perfect for them. So take advantage of the subject. One of the things that I always try to say, you know, I do safaris, but people will will always get a better image closer to home.
Speaker: right Absolutely, you're really in tune with the seasons at home and what's going on. yeah and or Time-wise. and Time-wise and individual animals. you know With hares, they get used to the car, so I park in sort of intersections where they're moving between fields.
Speaker: And, you know, after a couple of times, they're just oblivious of the car. know, I have them sometimes come and lay down, well, too close, right next to the car. Yeah, no, so great. It's a brilliant subject. So, I mean, if you've got 50 of these in you, that's going to be impressive. You're going to have like a whole, it's like the Britannica of, you know what? I mean, it's always for the kids out there. That means a big book that nobody reads anymore. Yeah. I'm going to try and do one a month. Yeah, well, really? We'll see how we go. Yeah. How are you how are you putting them out? Are they just on your website? Are you going to Amazon? Yeah, I'm just planning all that at the moment, yeah early days. But, yeah, I'll be selling through my website, probably through outlets like Amazon and booksellers. I'm taking notes because I've got a few old books I want to do at some point. Yeah, well, yeah you know, it's nice as a photographer to get your yeah to get your work seen clearly For me, I don't share a lot on social media. If I put something in a contest, I save it for that. yeah So then I've got all this backlog of catalog that I've not done anything with. I never put my best pictures on social media. And I'm not...
Speaker: I suppose I come from a generation where I've never quite got the hang of the algorithms and all the rest of it. So, yeah. it's Yeah, it's escaped me as well. It was a bit bit late coming to the party. Yeah. And and's if you think about it too, there's not a lot of value in a like.
Speaker: There's more value in actually having that image published and sold yeah or used for educational purposes as opposed to just... Yeah. Nothing. Social media is a necessary evil. Yeah, yeah. It's ah it's a communication pattern for us. Emphasis on evil. but yeah Yeah, I'm totally with you now. An old friend used to say, a good picture is a sold picture.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. So you guys have teamed up with Swarovski, which is phenomenal. um You know, you can't get much of a better name in optics. The heritage there, just the credence and and the gravitas that it brings to you.
Speaker: Having them work with you in a way to get the education out there and people trained. And obviously the optics are a big part of it as well. Absolutely. How is that partnership working out for you Because I know it's a fairly new... It is quite a new venture in way. And it's been a tricky first year. We've had some fantastic feedback on the events that have worked. We've had some like events that haven't worked and haven't got enough sufficient bookings. But it's early times and the economics economic situation is very tricky. Exactly, yeah. In terms of the brand, we've both been using Swarovski binoculars and scopes for years and years, and so it's an obvious partnership. right And respect that heritage, but also respect the quality, because I use them because I want to find subjects, and then the the pictures follow.
Speaker: Yeah, when you're a professional, you try to use the best kit you can afford or or get your hands on. And, you know, when it comes down to to their optics, it's second to none. I think what was interesting, what we identified really was we we do a lot of tours and workshops and things.
Speaker: And. I don't know what the percentage is, but off the top of my head, I'm going to say 80% of the people who come out with me don't come out with a pair of binoculars. yeah They're coming out i agree and they're spotting stuff with their camera.
Speaker: And for me, out in the field, a big part of it is using binoculars to find... stuff Okay, distantly at first, but you're you're sussing out what's what's going on. And so weve we felt it was a good opportunity to not only put over what we do and and try and teach people photography. Yeah.
Speaker: but also to introduce people to using binoculars and and the value of it. but Like you said, 20%. I mean, if that's all that's coming out with them, it's it's a huge gap. it's learning It's teaching people to learn to see. Exactly. It's not just about some flashy camera brand, whatever that may be. It's about learning to see, to be in the space, to appreciate what's around you, and to see those micro details. Exactly.
Speaker: either subject but eat all equally to find that elusive little bird that is there but it's just tucked away but with a pair of binoculars suddenly it's very clear you can see it that's right then you've got a subject well and you can you can you can plan your shot um right you could you see the environment you see the subject you're able to actually like you said, see what your image is going to be and make it an image that's of value as opposed to just here's the postcard, tight crop, you know, center mass image that you see on social media that tends to be the prevalent one. And and having that full picture obviously is fantastic. way better. And I think you're right. I think having that as part of the kit for people that are just learning or even experienced people that are, you know, want to take their photography to the next level. That's an aspect of it right there. And Swarovski, I mean, what else can you say? Most definitely. people say, oh, they're expensive. But then I see them. You buy them once. I see telephone numbers spent on lenses. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and believe me, I'm aware. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's a thing that...
Speaker: You invest in the quality and it's something that is almost generational. you can If you have children, you may be handing these down to them, right? It's that kind of quality. mind gets snatched. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a regular basis. yeah It's always a thing. you know The tools that we have as for professional photographers get ruined.
Speaker: Right. But the average person, you know, they really want to baby that. But I've seen people with pristine Swarovskis that have had for 15, 20 years and and they're never going to wear them out. But they have this beautiful piece of kit. Right. So, yeah. So how do you incorporate them in your workshops? You're just showing using it as as a tool to show them the environment. Are you actually bringing bringing them with them to with you to let people try they they're being brought along so when we do a workshop there's three of us there's David and myself yeah and then there's always one of the Swarovski representatives and these guys are not just salesmen they're not really salesmen they're knowledgeable people very knowledgeable they know field craft they know their animals they know their birds and so it's they they're They're integrated within the demonstration, really. And then people get a choice of equipment to take out with them. So they're just given, there's the toolbox. There's the toy box. Open it. Which one do you want to take out for the day? So they really partner with you to make the experience a really valuable educational tool. Most definitely. Oh, that's brilliant. I don't think a lot of brands do. I mean, i know Canon and and OAM will bring out gear to things, but that type of hands-on knowledge with you at the same time, that's pretty impressive. It's invaluable. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In a sense, it's also, it's a try before you buy. If that's if that's something of interest, it's a try before you buy. But actually, the point is not, it's not a selling environment. It's, they're there, and if they want to try, they're there. Yeah. Help them themselves. Yeah.
Speaker: There's no pressure, there's no sales technique, it's just they are there. That's great. That's the the silent partner that that's there to facilitate where your entire need is is ah is quite nice. So they don't get in the way of you teaching or anything like that, they're just there silently waiting for somebody to ask a question. Absolutely. In fact, a couple of the guys are so helpful, they know the cameras as well. So occasionally they'll get hands on with cameras and help people. right oh that's Because suddenly if you've got half a dozen people or with similar problems, They'll actually get involved and help with the camera side of things. Oh, wow. it It really is ah a partnership that works out very well.
Speaker: Well, we we should say, I suppose, the structure of the thing as well in that we do ah an hour's classroom session where we go through techniques. um Nick, more on the technical side,
Speaker: side, me more on the arty-farting creative stuff, trying to make people, when they look through the camera, think of the creative choices they've got with shutter speed, aperture, light direction, perspective, all all those creative choices that we three make, yeah often when we're photographing, but which... When people are fairly new to photography, their main aim is often just to get a sharp, big image in the frame. So we're trying to get people on from that yeah to a more creative experience. And, you know, it it then becomes... um
Speaker: far more, what's what's what's the word? It gives us so much more back to them. rewarding, yeah. yeah It to gives them artistic control and a creativity that perhaps they wouldn't have had before.
Speaker: Because photography has become so much more democratized, like you were saying, people are buying, you know, and they're ramping up their buy quite quickly. you You'll see people buying, I bought this 2.8 lens, I'm going to shoot it at 2.8. I don't care what it is, yeah right? And it's basically a really expensive point and shoot at that point. So i it's totally totally on brand, I think, is to make sure that people are actually utilizing the tools the way they should be. yeah You know, looking at how do i get a more creative image out of that. get Get your, if it's something you've never seen before, get that shot, of course. But then try things, right? What's the harm? It's a digital file. It's not like we had on film where we' we're wasting money, right?
Speaker: My dad used to really hammer that one Yeah. But yeah, it's it's basically free to shoot it, right? Try something. yeah try you may really find that you like it. David's particularly good at that. He's got some fantastic images. And he really, it's just open up the floodgates, try whatever you can. Because as you say, there is no cost attached. That's right. So you can be really creative, slow shutter speeds, movement within the picture. But with wildlife, you know, a lot of people do work. ICM as they saw in the contextual camera room David's doing it by adding the wildlife in there but it's also conveying impressions of a scene, he's got a fantastic shot of starlings and it just gives you that feeling of being there rather than just it's a picture on the wall
Speaker: Yeah, texture, things that people don't see, like painters. um I noticed from both of your work, you do have that very paintery feeling of the way you look at a scene, right? That you incorporate all of the aspects that one would think of in a fine art image into what you're doing. And I think if you can convey even 10% of that to beginners, I mean, you just opened up a new world for them, right? I think there's two things that democratised photography 30, 35 years ago, the coming of autofocus and lenses. That transformed things. That was big, wasn't it? remember that one too. remember that? And then when film was banished into the Stone Age, we're then able to look on the back of the camera and try again try again and try again. And those two things... And I think I'll one-up you there too, is that with mirrorless now, the ability to compose in camera while maintaining the subject in a certain spot where you could, you had to wheel the joystick around before. Absolutely. You know, now you just lock it on. And even more, you can see the exposure as you're taking it. Yeah, you know what You've got all the technical aids as well, but actually, fundamentally, you can just see the picture before you take it. Exactly. Which just changes the world.
Speaker: And I can see you you guys are a big proponent of get it right in camera. you're not You're not the post process. No, I did quite a lot of post. But but but you get your your base image though correct. Base image is in the camera always. get But I do a lot of post. but my post is only Lightroom for instance. course yeahs But it's making the image look optimal. There's no changes going on. I'm not taking elements in or out of the picture. It's the original image. yeah Just made it to look right. It's printing. It's a fine art print as opposed to a lab print. nick Nick likes to tweak mine. he I can't stop him. but yeah i yeah
Speaker: oh yeah i absolutely hate sitting in front of my computer. I fall asleep. yeah i don't I got to an age where I get started editing I'm gone. it's Well, you're probably not into listening to cricket on the radio. Oh, no, no. When there's a test match on the radio. Okay. I love Test Match Special so I do all my processing then and I sit in front of the computer listening to the cricket and and uh so do you go a whole season without editing photos? Yes quite often yeah yeah yeah okay yeah so you've done a lot of commercial stuff how did you find that influenced your wildlife?
Speaker: It's made me more precise. Okay, I was going to say. More technical, more precise. Because alongside the commercial stuff, I was doing a lot of software development. And and they're also testing very high-end kit. And it made me extremely precise in what I do, which is sometimes a handicap. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: David, I'm sort of slightly jealous of David, slightly more freestyle. Because his work is more creative, whereas I'm sort of almost... hampered by experience. But there's a creativity in that though too as well. i guess there is as well. There's composition and yeah exactly perfect exposure. It's boring but it's's it's good it's a good discipline too. I wouldn't say it's boring. i would yeah Your work is definitely not boring. thank you i tell you I'll tell you what happened with me. It it was the the the death of being able to make a living from selling photos Before, i was I was sort of shackled a little by shooting for the market, for shooting what I knew people were going to use in magazines and books. And that was often the straight portrait or the good flight shot, nicely lit, yeah not too much creative creativity about it, the really creative, arty stuff.
Speaker: No one ever wanted to publish because... It's totally different now, isn't There's a whole new appreciation for fine art. Yeah, there is. But also, I'm not shooting for that... publishing market so much anymore. yeah So i feel free to, when I've got something in front of me, I'm experimenting a lot more, which is what i wanted always wanted to do in the past. And I did once I've got got my sort of saved shots.
Speaker: But now it's, yeah, it's more creativity first, which is nice because it does free It's so much more fun, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Just instead of just getting, it has to be perfectly in focus across the entire spectrum of the image. Bring some movement in it. Show that these are living creatures we're shooting. They move, right? And so if you can incorporate that in.
Speaker: And the technology has enabled that as well. Absolutely. the The mirrorless cameras you've mentioned is definitely an enhancement. But then our own cameras have got certain functionality within them. It allows you to do creative stuff that would be never possible. you know You'd have big bunches of filters and all sorts of kit. Now we can just walk around with a camera, lens, no needing for tripods. That's right, yeah. you know And nice short shoot all day in hides, no tripods. It's just liberating. So bri coming to that, because Micro Four Thirds is where you guys live, right? So how do you find that for... for
Speaker: the ability to be a bit more creative and on the fly and having the having that technology at your hand to make that a much more easy experience for you. it's it's It's upped my photography standard significantly. and Others would say, oh, you've got to have a full frame camera to able to do this. i can do anything I like to do. And I've shot commercials for big international companies on my micro four thirds cameras. I shot a film for a big international paper company a few months ago. So in the filming side, but also in stills, i got pictures on billboards. I've got pictures in magazines and things.
Speaker: There is no restriction whatsoever. I can do exactly what I like to do. so there is no disadvantage. it seems It's light and it's cheaper. Well, exactly. That's the thing, right? yeah there That's one of the advantages I notice. because i'm I'm a Canon guy, but and I've got this massive 600 and a big body. So it's ah it's a heavyweight. You guys are going around with the same focal length, basically, and it's air. It's we we very annoying. We've got to tempt you over. oh yeah Yeah, right. yeah i mean, it's the lighter, the lighter more maneuverable cameras and lenses you...
Speaker: You can just, I think you you're just freed up a bit more. um And I'm never happier when I'm out walking on the North Norfolk marshes, you know, walking six, seven, eight miles just with my camera over my shoulder, and especially in the autumn, just trying to find stuff, you know. Absolutely. And I would never, when I was shooting Nikon with a 402.8 and heavy Gitzo tripods, I wouldn't walk more than a couple of miles.
Speaker: It's better for your health. no You can take OEM systems for your health. I can still feel it on the shoulder here meet up yeah Oh, that's brilliant. and So you what do what projects are are you working on post this, or are you just focusing on this for now?
Speaker: You've got to have something else in the pipeline. Well, I'm i'm always running. and i'm always I run wildlife photography holidays, yeah and I'm always looking of for new destinations. So that's ongoing projects. In conjunction with the admin for the ones I'm all running, I'm doing a lot of, both of us are doing a lot of one-to-one day trips, one-to-two day trips, small groups. And I'm always looking to create personal work as well because sometimes it's just to break away from... You need to... To do something different. Exactly. Yeah, focus on you for a while, right? Because I think we get so tied up in getting the next client or the next project going that you forget about that you have to up your game again, right?
Speaker: I know you you both have been very successful in contests and whatnot. You get that win and then and it's like, then what, right? You get that feeling of the...
Speaker: am I going to be able to do this again? You know, and then it it could take a while to rebuild, but you've got to, you've got to do that personal maintenance. You've got to keep the maintenance, you've got to keep moving forwards. Yeah. day stop, the day you finish.
Speaker: That's right. For me, another shameless plug about books. i've just hate golf I've just, I've just finished writing a book on the history of bird photography, which is going to be out next year. oh um I'm just sourcing the pictures at the moment. So I'm quite excited about that. that's How are you approaching that?
Speaker: So I've gone right back to the beginnings of photography really and and it's taken five years of, well I've been working on it off and on for ten, but five years of more concentrated effort in the last three years of writing. But been through many many archives and it's been a lot of research. but It's been a really interesting journey. Oh, yeah. That's going to be fascinating. Yeah. Well, we'll have to do this again. We'll have to come back next year talk about definitely want to get that book. So, yeah, let me know when you're publishing. Are you to self-publish that one? No, no. That's with Pelagic Publishing. Okay. So, yeah.
Speaker: and And where are you going, Nick? where what's your What's your next big trip? My next big trip is to see gorillas. Rwanda or Uganda. In Uganda. Okay, lovely. Absolutely. Brilliant. have you You must have done it before. I've done a lot of filming in Uganda. I've done a lot of filming for the Uganda Wildlife Authority. so conservation of Specific conservation projects have been very interesting. And supporting a small organization called the Uganda Conservation Foundation who funds fund funding fund resources or fund facilities which the government can't afford. So it's always good.
Speaker: and and they And they do it all with the benefit of the animals. That's their entire... and Animals are the heart of everything. Absolutely. That's one thing Uganda and Rwanda both have down is is the way the the gorillas are managed. yeah or Not the way the gorillas are managed, but the way the people are managed, interact with the gorillas. That's probably a better way to put it. It's very strict, but very necessary. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's life-changing for people. I mean, I've never met anybody who just said, eh, I saw a gorilla, right? it's No, it's this is, I've seen the gorillas, I've experienced the gorillas, and it changed me.
Speaker: Because it's the closest thing we'll ever have to meeting another species that recognizes us and understands it They're fully recognizable, but very different. That's right. It's it is very important. That's right. It's good for people to see them, I think.
Speaker: Well, I know we have to wrap up here, and I've really enjoyed this. It went really quick. At least it did for me. You might have found me boring. But, you know, i was really glad to talk to you guys. It was really great. Yeah, I really did with that. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. It was really lovely. i hope Let's do this again next year. it Sounds good. Thank you very much. and Thank you very much.
Speaker: Thanks, guys.
Speaker: People are here. you. Thanks, guys. Thank you for having me so smoothly. Awesome.
