Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The one with
36 Plays19 hours ago
Title: Protecting Birds and Biodiversity with Martin Harper, CEO of BirdLife International | Global BirdFair 2026
Episode Description:
Recorded live at the Whinchat Podcasting Station during the 2026 Global BirdFair in Rutland, this episode features an in-depth conversation with Martin Harper, Chief Executive Officer of BirdLife International—the world's largest partnership of civil society nature conservation organisations, supporting 125 partner organisations across 120 countries and territories.
Martin shares insights from his nearly 30 years of conservation leadership, including his decade as Global Conservation Director at the RSPB before joining BirdLife International in 2021 and becoming CEO in November 2023. We discuss BirdLife's ambitious strategy agreed at their centenary celebrations, the critical role of nature-based solutions in tackling the climate and biodiversity emergency, and how the Partnership's 120+ national organisations work together to protect endemic birds and prevent extinctions worldwide.birdlife
Martin also reflects on BirdLife International's support for the 2026 Global BirdFair's conservation work in São Tomé, the importance of projecting hope and optimism in conservation, and why this decade is crucial for ensuring our species can live in harmony with the rest of nature.birdlife.
A biologist by training, Martin has nearly 30 years of experience in senior conservation leadership roles across the NGO sector. He spent 17 years with the RSPB (BirdLife's UK Partner), including a decade as Global Conservation Director, before joining the BirdLife International Secretariat in 2021 as Regional Director for Europe and Central Asia. He served as Vice President for Regions and Partnership before becoming Interim CEO in June 2023 and was appointed permanent CEO in November 2023.birdlife
Martin has been part of the BirdLife community for over 20 years and has served on numerous NGO boards. He is currently a trustee of Green Alliance (joined September 2024) and a council member of the Cambridge Conservation Initiative. He was educated at the University of Oxford (Biological Sciences, 1990–1993) and University College London (MSc Conservation, 1994–1995), and undertook research in the Comoros and Mongolia.green-alliance
In his own words: "I am honoured to lead BirdLife International in this crucial decade. Having been part of the BirdLife family for the past 19 years, I have seen the power of our Partnership acting both nationally and together globally to tackle the nature and climate emergency. I will do everything that I can to ensure that the BirdLife Secretariat mobilises its exceptional science to inspire action while bolstering the collective capacity and capability of our 120 Partners operating in 116 countries so that together we project hope, optimism and confidence that our own species can live in harmony with the rest of nature."birdlife"
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Martin Harper and BirdLife International
00:00:38
Speaker
Welcome to the Authentic Voice, everyone, with Martin Harper from BirdLife International. I wanted to start out really quickly because let's just get right into it.
Impact of Bird Fair Funding on Conservation
00:00:48
Speaker
What's your relationship with the Bird Fair from an origination standpoint?
00:00:51
Speaker
So it's long. So since Bird Fair was founded in 1989, it's been raising funding for bird life projects all around the world.
00:01:02
Speaker
And over the last 37 years, Bird Life has benefited something like 5.5 million pounds raised directly for conservation through Bird Fair. And that is also leverage something like 40 million pounds worth of funding for conservation around the world. So it's amazing.
00:01:19
Speaker
And the legacy of those investments are also
Creation of Save Brazil and the Role of Bird Fair 1999
00:01:23
Speaker
huge. So at the Bird Fair today, we have Pedro Develi, who happens to be the director or the outgoing director of our partner in Brazil, Save Brazil. In 1999, Bird Fair raised money for the Atlantic forest. And that created a country program which BirdLife run for five years.
00:01:39
Speaker
And then that created this independent NGO called Save Brazil. And of course, they're now one of the most respective NGOs in Brazil. And what we're hoping will happen at this year's Bird Fair is that the injection of funding that we'll get for our project South Omean Principe will do for South Omean Principe what Bird Fair did for Brazil all those years ago. Wow.
00:02:01
Speaker
So you're... Can you explain how your model works for the layperson that just is more interested in birds? Because it's a complex, multifaceted, multinational organization, right? You're not just one real entity. You're a massive group of interconnected people.
00:02:20
Speaker
Thought leaders. Well, we try
BirdLife's Global Partnerships and Team
00:02:22
Speaker
to be that. So, yeah, BirdLife International is effectively a partnership. And now I can say 125 partner organizations in 100 countries and territories around the world. And they're supported by a global team that I lead. We're about 280 people across 11 offices around the world, 61 nationalities. And what we're trying to do is to support our 125 partners brilliant.
00:02:44
Speaker
And together we're the global authority on bird conservation. Together we try and inspire people through the practical conservation work that we do. But also together we try to unite with one voice to influence change in policy, legislation, attitudes and behaviour. And it is the best conservation model because
The Power of Grassroots Movements in Conservation
00:03:01
Speaker
all conservation is local. We have grassroots organisations. They are the authentic voice influencing change nationally. And if we combine, we've got a chance to get ourselves out of the mess that the planet's in. That's absolutely brilliant.
00:03:13
Speaker
It brings the engagement in at a grassroots level, like you said. Regular people are able to get involved via these NGOs, I take it? So all of our partner organizations are independent of government. They're civil society organizations. and pretty much all have membership. So it was created 104 years ago the back of the successful campaign to outlaw the use wild birds and feathers in the hat trade. We created this thing called the International Council for Bird Preservation. 70 years later, we trans morphed into BirdLife International with the idea of one national partner per country who are independent of government, being able to give truth to power and deliver change nationally and obviously collectively, globally to effect change. Wow.
Leveraging Big Data and Science for Conservation
00:03:55
Speaker
So can we geek out a little bit on the technology side for a moment? I know you're a big data harvesting group. Do you have a template that you give to your partners for this or do you just bring it all in and munch it basically when it comes in-house?
00:04:11
Speaker
Yes, so things have evolved over the years. But so our science team the global team science team, we house some of the we hope we look after some of the big conservation data sets. So on behalf of the IUCN, we are the Red List Authority for Birds. That's really assessing the extinction risk of all the birds on the planet. And we also we also host the Important Bird Areas Database and also the Key Biodiversity Areas Secretariat, which is now partnership of 13 organizations. Interesting. And the key when bird life at its best,
00:04:40
Speaker
we come up with a conservation intervention which is successful and then we roll it out around the world. And I think important bird areas, which has now been around for about 45 years or so, is one of those great examples. How do you have a consistent way of prioritising the most important areas of birds and biodiversity to inform protected area management, etc.? And that's what we did. And so our important bird area programme and now our key biodiversity programme is underpinning all manner of area-based conservation around the world. So you break that data down into local regions and then supply that region with a bespoke plan of action. So what I should is pretty much all the data is coming from all sorts of sources. So yes, BirdLife partners who will be running their own bird surveys, but also other scientists. So for example, our seabird tracking database, which we house on behalf of all of the seabird conservation community, there's something like 2,000 seabird scientists who contributing that data. and that allows us to then understand what's happening to seabirds around the world. So, know, most conservation is dependent on data coming from people who give their time for free, volunteers who collect that information. And of course, we always, from a scientific point of view, want that data to be collected in a standardised format. But even so, what we then try and do is provide a conservation framework for that data to inform decision making.
BirdLife Data Zone: A Resource for Conservation
00:05:58
Speaker
And then, yeah, we can make that data available back to partners, but we also make it available to the general public through what we call our BirdLife Data Zone, which is essentially a one-stop shop for everything you ever want to know about birds and their conservation. And you can go in, you can identify your favorite species, your country, even your flyway, and you get everything you ever want to know about your area of interest. And we can use that, hopefully, to inspire people also to support conservation.
00:06:24
Speaker
So are you working with people that are just... hobbyists as well to bring that data in or are you just looking to work with certain organized... All of the above. All of the above. So let's take, you know, we're in the UK and obviously the Royal Society Protection Birds is the BirdLife Partner but also it works very closely with the British Trust for Ornithology and together they, with the Joint Nature Conservation Committee, they run this thing called, you know, the British Breeding Bird Survey. And that is a systematic way of trying to encourage volunteers to collect information about what's happening to birds in order to provide data to inform decision making. And that model has also been replicated in many other countries around the world. So grassroots, organized, volunteer effort to collect information about birds to inform conservation nationally and globally.
00:07:13
Speaker
So you're taking those platforms that you know are known good working and then offering them to other localities as well? So often, but the world's big and sometimes other big platforms come along and they're amazing. And we're very lucky to partner with the likes of Cornell Lab for Mythology, who, of course, the geniuses behind E-Bird and Merlin. And so we try and partner where we can. Observado at a European level is another one. We try and partner with them. to make sure that all of that data that's coming through from citizen science ultimately finds its way into supporting conservation. So we have to be networked both within bird life, but also within the conservation science community. Right. So another techie question. So are you leveraging AI large language models now
The Role and Risks of AI in Conservation
00:07:54
Speaker
against everything? Yeah. So the team are doing that a lot. And of course, you know, we've it's all all the rage, but actually, One things I think we've been trying to is trying to be really clear about, well, what is artificial intelligence? What does it mean for our work? What does it mean for conservation? And then also, what does it mean for running organizations and the way in which we communicate? And of course, people have their own views about that. But I think that, in essence, what AI is going to is to allow us to do things quicker than what humans can do, particularly around big data. But equally, there are some risks about, you know, when it's in the wrong hands and what can mean. But I think, you know, for us as a conservation community, we are, again, talking to loads of other organisations who are using some of these models to help us interpret data at pace to really inform decisions which matter. And in the end, we're interested in conservation science to inform change.
00:08:46
Speaker
Brilliant. Yeah, I can see where the AI pieces will fit to, like your Redbird list, being able to give you pointer on what's going to be impacted, what may not look like it's being impacted yet, just given by the trending that it's finding. That said, how are you dealing with...
00:09:03
Speaker
people that want to be involved with not just these NGOs, these organizations, but how are you dealing with average people that want to get engaged in this? Yeah, so I always say that the long-term goal of the bird life community is to try and create great big bird and nature-loving societies.
Engaging Communities for Better Conservation Outcomes
00:09:21
Speaker
That's the long-term goal. We want to change the way in which people relate to wild birds.
00:09:26
Speaker
As I said right at the beginning, we started as a campaigning organization. We changed the way aristocratic women thought about birds in fashion. And we have to change the way all parts of society relate to birds. So the way in which we try and do that, and partner by partner around the world, is to go in to engage with local communities, to schools, to decision makers, to business leaders, to encourage them to think about birds and nature as part of the way in which they develop as a community.
00:09:57
Speaker
And so that takes time. And every now and again, we obviously have to stand up to make a stand, you know, to try and prevent harm. But ultimately, we want more people on our side, championing the need for nature in all parts of our economy.
00:10:11
Speaker
And do you have a mechanism for people to get engaged directly? Or is it you're aiming them at partners? So what we ideally want is we want all of our partners to be big and powerful. So the RSPB has 1.2 million members. It would be wonderful if every partner all around the world has a huge constituency of support in the same way, because that gives them long-term benefit. You can become a World Bird Club member of BirdLife. And we'd always welcome donations from anybody. But at heart, we want our BirdLife partners to be big and we want the global team that I lead to be financially secure. So support both. Support your local partner, support the global team. Yeah, I think it's some people in different localities might struggle to find a group that they can get engaged with. So having something direct is a nice factor.
00:10:57
Speaker
You and I had a really quick conversation before we came up here, and I've always been a long-time campaigner against baiting with owls, especially, any birds of prey, basically. And one of the things I get pushback on a lot is there's not been any studies done, there's no research involved, and there are few, there is a couple of cases that have a couple of really decent studies done, but the data set was small.
00:11:23
Speaker
So that's not giving you the biggest sample size and that's giving you the best results. Given the fact that you've got this large big data mechanism, is there, one of my asks to you is if you could go back into your network and possibly ask a research group to actually put something together that they'd want to work with, with local members, with people that are engaged in the anti-baiting community.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, so one things we're always happy to do is basically, because we're a community, we have this extranet where we can sort of talk about what's going on and we can invite people to answer questions and just find out who's working on whatever issue. So very happy to post that on our extranet and see what comes back. And, you know, we have our big gathering of BirdLife partners coming up in Nairobi in September. So every four years we have our global partners that going there. So, you know, people can come along, they can network with the BirdLife community. And, you know, again, it's all, you know, we know that to affect change, you need to build...
00:12:22
Speaker
solidarity amongst the community and you need momentum yeah and so i think again conservation to my mind is always at its best when you're really well organized and you exploit opportunities that present themselves in the end you've got to get organized and if that's finding out who's doing what well we can help with that but that's where you guys excel is is that you bring in that organization layer where others may not know where even where to start so we absolutely try and do that so i think what what The way we try and describe our strategy model is we try and say, well, this is the broad space in which bird life wants to work. We have these two core foundations of our science and our partnership. And we're all about trying to recover threatened species, protect and restore threatened sites.
00:13:02
Speaker
trying to influence the drivers of change, the systems that are causing problems, and to mobilize society. And the bird life partners hopefully say, yeah, we commit to doing what we can in that space according to our capacity. And then what we're trying to say is, okay, what are we going to do together? And particularly around, because birds don't any borders, it's how do you work together for migratory birds, for seabirds, to act beyond those borders. And probably the big game-changing intervention that we
How Does BirdLife Influence Infrastructure Investments?
00:13:28
Speaker
are...
00:13:29
Speaker
really putting forward at the moment is about trying to harness the investment power of multilateral development banks to change some of their investments to support the protection of sites incredibly important for migrating birds, but also for people and the climate. So that's the sort of the strategy that we're evolving and hopefully that will get signed off by our partners in Nairobi in September. Brilliant. I was going to ask you the cliche, what's 10 years look like for success for you?
00:13:55
Speaker
Is that one of the aspects then? So yeah, I mean absolutely. So I think that we at the moment have pledged from the Asian Development Bank, the Development Bank for Latin America and the Caribbean and the World Bank, about 10 billion or so try and influence infrastructure projects and to invest in sites important for migratory birds to try and help reverse the declines of migratory birds. That is a huge commitment. But over the next decade, we've got to work with those developing banks, obviously with our partners. need see results. And they need to see results. So I want to see that money flow into the right place and do good. And at the same time, I think collectively, we're all about trying to
00:14:36
Speaker
reduce the number of species which are at risk. So over a 10-year period, can we see fewer species at risk? And can we see greater percentage of our key biodiversity areas network protected? So I think they are the three big indicators of success. And hopefully, also, each of our partners will feel more sustainable, they'll feel like they have more impact, and they've got momentum there. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
What kind magician are you to get that level of investment from governments and banks that don't see birds as anything other than a flappy thing that's in the air? Well, fortunately, I follow a magician. So our previous chief executive, Lady Corp Patricia Zurita, an amazing visionary leader, essentially she smashed open some doors to try and convince some of these development banks to make these commitments. And my job really has been trying to make sure how do we maintain that big vision and then follow through. But I think what the development banks were interested in, because they all are under pressure to do more for nature and climate in integrated way, and they like the regional nature of those programs. And so the fact that we can identify a network of sites across East Asia Australasia Flyway, for example, supported by the East Asia Australasia Flyway Partnership, means that the Asian Development Bank have a coherent program. They don't just have a series of projects. And I think that was attractive to them. And it was replicated in the Americas. And then just last year, we signed an agreement with the World Bank to try and do the same across the Afro-Erasian flyway. So these are big commitments from big institutions.
00:16:02
Speaker
But we've got to make sure they actually follow through on those commitments. Because I guess it could be seen as one of those temporary greenwashing things if it doesn't actually lead anything. Absolutely. And I actually don't think that is the case with the leadership in those organizations. I know they're under pressure. I know there's all sort of political moves going on the moment. But, you know, Sergio Diaz Granados, who is the... the president of the Development Bank of Latin America and the Caribbean, he has pledged and he is personally associated with that pledge for CAF, that's the acronym, to be the greenest development bank in the Americas. And they have committed for 50% of their lending to support environmental projects. Of course, that's by the end of the decade. like to get 100%, but they've got to be realistic. So he's personally associated with that. And I think the more you can get that organizational buy-in, then hopefully the culture will change. And in the end, it goes back to what I said, ultimately conservation is about changing society, changing cultures. And you start with institutions. You also need to obviously change the way political parties think. And of course, you change the way our economy relates to nature. And that takes time. But if you can have leaders doing that, you can affect change quicker.
00:17:09
Speaker
And the quality of your data will influence that because the better data you have, the better data they have to request the funding and the mindset.
00:17:18
Speaker
That, I think, is probably huge problem for you to overcome is the fact that people don't understand what they're actually losing when they don't see it. And being able to give that data hard evidence is magic. I think that's... Yeah, I think, you know, what we are offering, and I think this is absolutely what any civil society organization ought to be doing, is that you are presenting evidence...
00:17:44
Speaker
to people with influence to try and affect change. And you give it without fear or favor. And our job is to curate that evidence base, to make it available to anyone and say, this is what we are seeing in terms of the state of wild birds.
00:17:59
Speaker
And this is why you need to act. And so we need to obviously ensure that data is highest standard, highest quality, and that integrity of our conservation science is crucial. Exactly. Like it's...
00:18:11
Speaker
You bring the gravitas to say that the data we're presenting is true, valid, single source of truth for you. You can make a decision on this and not feel upset that it's going to change. Exactly. And so if you choose not to act, which of course, you know, then there are consequences. Right. And so, you know, sadly, every four years we produce the state of the world birds. And obviously, you know, historically, the picture is not rosy. And so when we publish our next state of the world birds report with a spotlight on migration birds, we'll publish that in September. You know, it's going to have a lot of challenge. No one's surprised by that. We know the state of the world. However, by continuing to present that information, it means you've got a drumbeat of an assessment as to whether we are turning the corner in terms of how we're relating to the rest of nature.
00:18:57
Speaker
Wow. That's such a big task. But clearly you've got the infrastructure, thought process, all the policy behind it to make it actually work.
00:19:07
Speaker
So given what you said about this new document that's coming, do you have a success story in there as well? Not just the negative, because I'm sure there's probably one that outweighs the other, but is there a success story that people can come away with?
00:19:22
Speaker
So we're all about trying to project conservation optimism, hope and optimism, because the reason I believe that's important I think that gives us energy, but also because we do have practical examples where we have recovered threatened species, we have protected restored places, but what you want to see is scale. So here's an example which we're incredibly proud of at the moment. It's a big partnership endeavour.
00:19:48
Speaker
our North American partners of American Bird Conservancy, Audubon Society, Birds Canada, partnering with ourselves and the RedLac community have created this thing called Conserver Aves.
00:19:59
Speaker
And this is trying improve protection key biodiversity areas which are important at a sub-national level because what's happening some of the big federal national parks they're being you know well looked after quite difficult to get new places designated but loads of areas really
Spreading Successful Conservation Models Globally
00:20:14
Speaker
important for nature are not protected and so we've created a granting mechanism to provide support through our national partners in eight countries of the Andes and Central America to support indigenous people, Afro-descendants and local communities to put in place the mechanisms that they will need in order to protect those sites. And as result of this investment we've had from Bezos Earth Fund and from the Government of Canada, we have now helped improve protection of something like 1.2 million hectares. We've helped create more than 60 new protected areas. We're protecting a huge number of critically threatened species and also crucially declining migratory birds. So we're benefiting birds, we're benefiting local people and we're showing what is possible. And a bit like the important bird area program, which was incredibly influential, we're now trying to roll it out.
00:21:04
Speaker
to Brazil, to the Guyanas. And again, if we and then we even think about how do you export that model to Africa? So I think if you've got a conservation intervention that's successful, how do you roll it out at pace?
00:21:17
Speaker
Because you look, I would imagine that the migratory corridors, you know, you have birds that appear for a very short period of time. They may be seen as a food source. People hunt them by whatever needs they have for protein and then they move on to a different location. If you're able to fund those people to not make that, have to make that choice, you're making a huge impact on something that may not directly impact them from a migration perspective, but it does the birds on that path. Yeah, and I think that is one of the stories of conservation is how do you demonstrate value of keeping the birds in your forest or your grassland or your wetland. And often that's linked to the economic benefits you can get from things like wildlife tourism, which hopefully will outweigh what you might get from trade. Exactly. And, you know, we've seen that in places like Indonesia, where our partner Bering Indonesia is working village by village to try and encourage them to keep their birds in the forest rather than trading for the songbird trade. Right. So that is about how you do give real value to birds and biodiversity, which are close to where people live. Yeah, I've seen that in action because, say, in Kenya, the Maasai people don't particularly like owls. They're seen as a species that's...
00:22:28
Speaker
an evil spirit kind of thing in some instances in the more further in communities and they would cause them harm you know but now that they realize that it's an actual way for people to come in and be tourists and regenerative income it's seen as a natural resource now so now instead of persecuting them they are showing people them right so it works for everybody especially them right and the birds So you're absolutely right. mean, I think there's, you know, just south of Kenya, I mean, there's been the great debate around what's been happening in Lake Natron.
Community Resistance to Protect Biodiversity
00:22:59
Speaker
And obviously that's been threatened by soda ash mining for quite a long time. And our partner, Nature Tanzania, has been working with the local communities, all those nine local communities around Lake Natron, to basically say we don't want to see our iconic site, our home, damaged through mining because we want to look after it.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yes, for its own sake, but also because of the benefits we're getting through things like tourism. So, a lot of conservation is about changing hearts of minds locally and nationally. And sometimes that takes time. And sometimes there's all sorts of cultural reasons why, know, people turn against predators, especially. And how you can demonstrate that, again, having predators in the landscape is a sign of success because I think it's a sign of humans reaching a realm of civilization that we can coexist with other predators. Exactly, exactly. It's something that we don't see as an actual impact on our existence is causing a problem for us that we tend snuff out at every moment's notice. We're going to have to wrap up here, but this has been fascinating.
00:23:59
Speaker
So once you get this agreement signed, what's next? What do you tackle next? I know you're still on this cycle, but what do you see as the next... So one of the great challenges of conservation is how you deliver focus with the resources you have. And every single conservation success I've ever been even tangentially associated with is multi-decadal. So I think what we're trying to do say, well, OK, what are the things that we really want to focus our efforts Reversing the decline of migratory birds. you know, giving seabirds a future, perhaps identifying some of those landscapes we can transform to demonstrate how can you deliver sustainable finance for grasslands and forests and wetlands, and how can you also tackle some of the most threatened species on the planet. They are the areas where we're going to, you know, ruthlessly focus in on to try and affect change. And if we get positive stories, we will tell those stories well, because we ought to be preachers of conservation optimism. have to be screaming from the mountains Exactly. And then hopefully we're going get people associated with those positive stories and then they become curious about why they were successful and then you can get the policy, legislative and financial change needed so that they can be replicated in other places.
00:25:08
Speaker
That gives me some hope. Good. We're meant to be messengers of hope. Honestly, if you're able to influence governments to that level and change perspective, that's a big deal.
Hope in Youth for Future Conservation Efforts
00:25:16
Speaker
And that's not a small effort. We're lucky we've got a big community. Well, yeah, that's true. And it seems to be growing now. Gen Z is becoming more and more...
00:25:25
Speaker
I am really heartened. I mean, you know, even at Bird Fair this week, there are young people here raising money to support, you know, bird life projects in South Tome and Principe.
00:25:35
Speaker
Incredible rise in interest in birding, in nature conservation. that was not, we should not take that for granted. But we should nurture it. And the other thing is the next generation are better than us. So they're going to do things better than going to deal with different challenges at a larger scale.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, and unfortunately, they're inheriting real challenge. But yeah, remain hateful, remain optimistic, and we keep going. Yeah, brilliant. Well, thank you, Martin. It was lovely. really enjoyed this. Yeah, take care. I enjoyed too. Thank you.