Transcript
Speaker: Hello, welcome back to Be Make Do, a Soulmakers podcast, where we explore what it takes to live out your call in the arts with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom.
Speaker: I'm your host, Lisa Smith, here with my producer, Dan ABH. Hello, everyone. And it is our passion to encourage you to become who you were created to be, make what you were created to make, and do what you were created to do.
Speaker: We are in our sixth season of the Be Make Do podcast and it has been an incredible journey. So many of you tell us how you find us and then go back and listen to past episodes over and over and then seek us out to find out how to go deeper with our groups and other tools and programs. And that is really great because Dan and I say all the time, we are not podcasters.
Speaker: Our goal isn't to have a successful podcast. Our goal is to send out a signal of hope and encouragement and challenge to artists of faith in the 21st century, because we believe that God is raising up a lush and fruitful garden of creatives and artists and performers and writers and visual artists and musicians and all of you for a purpose in this time.
Speaker: In a world increasingly shaped by content, our Artists and creatives are the primary stewards of our cultural imagination. They're not simply entertaining us. They're shaping what we believe it means to be human and what kind of future we can imagine.
Speaker: So this season, we're exploring the vital role artists of faith play in this cultural moment and who we need to become to be prepared to do this work.
Speaker: We're going to do this by exploring some common questions we come across all the time. Things artists are asking themselves and chatting about in different arenas. And of course, things we're struggling with and notice ourselves. So what we're going to do is we're going to dig underneath the asked question to see what's behind it.
Speaker: What are the underlying assumptions there? What are the deeper questions that we really need to be asking? And so we're going to look at that and look at what is discipling our imaginations as we're looking at becoming the people our work requires, understanding that our work is helping to shape what others see. Well, what's discipling our imagination? What lenses are we looking through when we consider how we see ourselves and how we see God and others, our craft, our relationships, our calling, our culture?
Speaker: And then as we do that, we're going to explore what changes when we look at those arenas and questions through a biblical lens. What new, more wise-hearted questions might emerge?
Speaker: Yeah, so that's what we're going to do. Sounds fun, right? All right, let's do it.
Speaker: Yeah, you know, it's it's really cool because we sent out an email a little while ago asking our listeners if there were questions that they had on their minds and what they're thinking about. And so we got a bunch of really great emails with some meaningful questions and understanding what's on people's minds and hearts. It's so interesting. This question keeps coming up over and over again about, like, I don't know if it's a sense of guilt or justification about what what does it matter or how can I justify making art when there are so many like real heavy, serious problems in the world.
Speaker: And I think that also crosses over into like, they're real serious, heavy things in my life or responsibilities I have in my life. Personally, i think I've been sitting on the other side of that question Recently, just I've been so focused on producing things and getting certain things out that I really haven't had a whole lot of time for personal art making or even experiencing art. And I've just noticed that I've felt dry and...
Speaker: um not as creative and I've had a lot of doubts. And so like last week I read a book, read a whole book, watched two movies um and started listening to classical music and I just feel so much richer for it. So it's it's interesting to come at this question about kind of justifying our art making or why does it matter when there are so many concrete hard problems in the world that need to be fixed? Is this valuable? And I'm coming at it right now in the spaces we're getting ready to have this conversation, um feeling the blessing of receiving it. Like I'm the one that a whole bunch of people's artwork really mattered for. and i can I can feel the impact that it has on my life, just in my ability to handle what's going on. So I think this is a fantastic question. What
Speaker: Does it matter or why does it matter that I make art in a world that's on fire? Right? Let me put it in a dramatic sense. And I do think that a lot of artists really do struggle with this question at different points in time.
Speaker: Oh yeah, definitely. I've been on a Counting Crows kick like for the past couple months. I was in a vinyl club ah meeting and somebody had brought up something about like what was your first memory of music. like What did you hear the first time you really got it? And where it kind of snapped for me was like what I was interested in. And being 10 years old, it was the Counting Crows this album, August and Everything After. And because that album had such a huge impact on me, I followed that story for years and years and years, like the making of that record and looking up interviews, anything that I could find. And HBO Max actually just started this music box series, I think like a few years ago.
Speaker: And one of them, they did like at Landis Morissette, I think they did like DMX and a bunch of really, really cool artists. And they did this one last year called Have You See Me Lately? And it's about the Counting Crows.
Speaker: And I've heard lots of stories about the making of that album. And also bear in mind, like when that album came out, I was 10 years old. So grunge was really big and all these different bands like Green Day were out. And like I wanted my first album that my mom was going to purchase for me on cassette tape was this very melancholic album about desperate longing for connection and being 10 years old. You're still longing for connection.
Speaker: I'm still doing that. But yeah, i I love that question that you're asking. I just rewatched that documentary and it started making me think about that album and the making of that album, like what a disaster it was making it. And there was so much going on in the world, like so much, you know, there's wars just like now. Always. And ah yeah, like grunge was dominating the airwaves. Nirvana's in utero had just came out the same day as the Counting Crows album. Also, the way that they made the album was that they could have just went into like a slick studio or something, but they decided like not to do that. They decided to just get in a room, ditch the synthesizers, use all acoustic instruments, sit in the circle and see what happens.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. So you bring up a lot of stuff in there. i i want to ask you, like what did that do to you though? like why Why does that hit you? Both those things that kind of they were...
Speaker: daring to maybe be more vulnerable in a cultural climate that was really rewarding, aggressive, like angsty expression.
Speaker: and also you've, you've mentioned like that, the idea that they were in a room, you know, it was not a typical studio experience, but like it was a more connected um recording environment. Why do those things in particular,
Speaker: speak to you? Well, I think now, well, I was very young when that album came out. Yeah. But I think now it reminds me that, you know, we can sit quietly with our hearts in a very loud screaming world. You know, it's a very poetic album. And sometimes I need that rather than the loud, punky, emo, angsty stuff that I typically do like, you know. I also just think that it's real.
Speaker: It's not melodramatic per se. You know, some people may have thought it was, but I don't think it was. But it's just like one of those records that just like keeps with you. And now that I know more about the making of it and how real they wanted there are to be, like even to the point where they were like invited to do, you know, like back in the day,
Speaker: i well I guess it's still kind of like the biggest thing that you can do um is a late night show. ah So Saturday Night Live. Right. And there's a part in the documentary and i encourage you guys to watch it. But there were they were invited to be on SNL. um And of course, they wanted them to play the single at the time, which was Mr. Jones. And that they, at that point, weren't like super popular yet. And they said, no, we have to play Round Here, which is the best song ever. But yeah, so they like tell them, no, we have to play this song. So they play the non-radio one because it's the best song.
Speaker: And if they were going to present themselves, they were not going to let them dictate what they think the best song is. So basically, they did what they wanted to do, and they were never invited to go back on SNL ever again. Yeah.
Speaker: Mr. Jones is about dreaming about being a rock star, but it's also about how it's not going to turn out to be what you think it is. I mean, when he keeps saying, when everybody loves me, I'll never be lonely, you're supposed to know that's wrong. it's not just about dreaming, that it's about an emptiness in there too. Which doesn't invalidate a dream.
Speaker: Dream is great, but nothing solves everything, just like being a rock star doesn't fix it all. got fix your shit yourself. I'm gonna be star.
Speaker: I think we were talking earlier about how difficult it was to get the record made or how unusual it was to get the record made because it didn't seem to kind of fit into the the milieu of the moment.
Speaker: Like what what what was that about? why it was hard you know It seems like there was a lot in the documentary or about having to be brave and courageous in this way, exactly this conversation we're talking about where their music didn't necessarily fit what seemed to be worth making right then.
Speaker: Yeah, so so basically what was happening was that, you know, we had just left like the pop 80s and the hair metal type of thing. And like in the very, very early ninety s grunge just sort of like changed everyone overnight. And then Counting Crows was like one of a kind band when they came out. But it's really interesting because like when they put out their demo,
Speaker: every record label wanted them. There was a bidding war ah with with this record. And it just kind of reminds me, it's like even i think the label kind of knew that they had something really special because they didn't sound like all the other bands.
Speaker: And you know, they're like a musician's musician's band, in my opinion. But like, I feel like ah The consumers, like nobody could take a band seriously that like sat in a circle with acoustic guitars and accordions and B5 organs and all that. But it's also, it's such, it's such a vulnerable record. You know, the reason why it sold so well, like it sold better than anyone expected. And I don't think it was just because of the single, because let's face it, Mr. Jones is the worst song on the album, in my opinion. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: um it doesn't really go anywhere but all the other songs do and to me it's sort of like the most emo record before emo was a thing because it was so vulnerable and it's so well written and some people who bought that record wanted that mr jones they wanted mr jones to be on to be the whole record but it wasn't it was sort of like this like okay we did that one that's gonna be the single so let's do all the music that we want to do now And I think that's so courageous, you know, i think that's so brave.
Speaker: And even to the people that purchased the record, because, you know, you know, 10 year old kid, all my friends were listening to Nirvana and Green Day and the Offspring. and I'm like, i don't know, guys, i I really like this Counting Crows band.
Speaker: Oh, that's really interesting too, the the courageousness of purchasing something that's not as as cool as well as the courageousness of making it. Did they have doubts about that? Like, did that create any angst for them or like doubt about whether or not they should even make make this record or give into the pressure to do something different? Because think that's kind of what we're what we're sort of circling around and getting at is that that feeling of like, you know, why why do the artistic thing?
Speaker: even if it doesn't feel like there's a market for it, or even if it doesn't feel like it's productive or serious as everybody else. Yeah, and in that new documentary, ah it there's like a 10-minute section of basically after they made the record.
Speaker: Like this the despair that the lead singer, Adam Duritz, went through because he just felt like he put everything out on the table and he was so vulnerable. And it was about seeking that desperation for human connection. Mm-hmm. as opposed to all the music that was out during the time. But a majority of that music was sort of like, get away from me, leave me alone, blah, blah, blah which is fine, I guess. But that's not what...
Speaker: everything August and everything after was about. And then when they finally did get big, they got so big that it was too much to handle, you know? So what happened was that the record, this was the 90s, okay, guys? So this isn't wasn't like when people put out singles and then the record comes out. This was the record comes out. It doesn't sell. And then you do a single, then you do some music videos, then you do another single, then you do another music video. And so the lifespan of a record is like two years, three years. And so it was like over three years where they just really took off. And it wasn't because of Mr. Jones anymore. It was about people were able to sit in a room and listen to this record and really feel something.
Speaker: think it's just such a beautiful example of that one specific experience within a life being expressed that speaks to a very specific experience in another life.
Speaker: And that's a one-to-one-to-one kind of thing. And that like I think another underlying question within this, what difference does it make is like, is self-expression just um self-indulgence?
Speaker: You know, is it just, yeah, self-indulgence, is that really worth anything? And i wonder there... If we forget how the level of specificity and particularity about my story and the detail that I'm telling my story has to be is a part of any great story. Like it's the particular that makes something universal.
Speaker: Whereas when we're only doing something for like, let's just shoot something out that's going to hit as many people as we possibly can. it may hit a nerve in a moment, but it doesn't necessarily hit on that deeper level, that staying power kind of level. Those are just some the things that initially jump out at me.
Speaker: Yeah, i I think the difference whether you make art doesn't have to be about like changing the world. But really, it's about does it make you feel human?
Speaker: Does it make you feel connected? Because that's the stuff that's impactful. And that's the stuff that's engaging. Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's it. So that's, that's the weird thing is like, I think as creative people, as artists, we believe that. We know that. I mean, that's why we get into the arts because it does something to us. And so the process and act of art making is a place where we find meaning and process things and then...
Speaker: It's really exciting and wonderful to be able to share that with people and it touch a nerve in them. And we've seen it happen over and over again. And so that's, you know, why we get excited about it. But there's this story that seems to be so compelling. The question is like, why does it take root that that it's somehow not worth it or that it is Self-indulgence. so that's So I think that's the place where we can start is like asking who or what is discipling our imagination around this. Like what story are we believing that is leading us to feel like it's a waste of time somehow?
Speaker: And I think there's a couple of different lenses that we're looking through that maybe are not the lenses we should be looking through. So like, first of all, there's just production culture, you know, which we just live in. And we've lived in for a long time. That's that's part of since the industrial age.
Speaker: And I just wonder if we've started to believe that a worthwhile activity is only one that is like concrete, right? Like even in this age where emotional health and self-help is so prevalent in our conversation, it's really easy to get distracted by quick ahas and quick fixes. You know, like we still devalue the deeper work that requires like really staying with hard things or suffering. We have to ask, like, is it the right lens to expect our art to survive?
Speaker: fix something like you were saying. But I do think this is interesting because I think that is generally a cultural value is like, you know, production oriented. We even talk about artistic work in the terms of content at this point that we are producing. So this is a lens that is easy for us to get distracted by. And maybe it's not the right lens for us to look at art making through.
Speaker: I love there are thousands of clips of Bowie interviews all over the internet and I just love listening to him talk because he has such a strong sense of this. Just remember that the reason that you initially started working was that there was something inside yourself that you felt that if you could manifest it in some way, you would understand more about yourself and how you coexist with the rest of society.
Speaker: I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist fulfill other people's expectations. I think they produce, they generally produce their worst work when they do that. And if, the other thing I would say is that if you feel safe in the area that you're working in, you're not working in the right area. Always go a little further into the water than you feel you're capable of being in. Go a little bit out of your depth.
Speaker: And when you don't feel that your feet are quite touching the bottom, you're just about in the right place to do something exciting. which I think is a really interesting thing that I noticed as I was exploring this question a little bit. Like artists in general,
Speaker: seem to be, okay, we're not we're not that. We are dealing with things that are of a a spiritual nature, I guess, or a a intuitive nature. Whereas Christians in the artists arts have a harder time valuing that.
Speaker: So then it's like, okay, well, what's going on behind all that? I think there's probably a couple of things that we could investigate and they probably seem obvious in a way. But if you're talking about like Protestant or evangelical culture, you know, the the emphasis is on things like evangelism and behavior um and ah producing good fruit, which in those cases usually means results.
Speaker: But then that's where we ask the deeper questions of what does fruit look like? Like what really counts as good work for a Christian?
Speaker: um Because I think there's a lot of what sort of the modernist view of life as like separating sacred versus secular, emotional life, private life versus public life, um and the emphasis on on the social gospel of helping the poor and the oppressed, um or maybe seeing art as valuable as an awareness raising tool,
Speaker: or a um illustrated illustration for a sermon or um a decoration or even just an aid in worship. Like it always has to be useful, quote unquote, in a practical way.
Speaker: um And I guess my question then is, is that a biblical lens of the way that we see art? For me, coming from the production culture and still sort of being in that, you know, like most of the people I hang out with are are secular artists, you know, like in my music realm. But also still like learning about Christian culture and being a creative. I'm lucky enough, though, to have an amazing supportive community that is Soulmakers, um but also that still doesn't stop me from assuming these things or wondering. For instance, one of the things I wonder about is this podcast and this album that I'm working on. And at the same time, because there's so many millions of podcasts out there and so many millions of songs and singles and albums that have been recorded and written,
Speaker: And the ones that I'm working on, you know, my, what I like to call my little contribution, is it adding to anything? Is it just adding to the noise, you know?
Speaker: You know what I mean? And so as a Christian, but also coming from that productive culture, i i i get it, you know? There are the things that I wonder These are the things that I wonder. And I know it's crazy because in my brain, I know it's everything we talk about here. And I get that. But like at nighttime, this is what I'm thinking about, you know, like, does this podcast matter?
Speaker: And of course it does because we get tons of emails and we have great supporters and listeners and people get in contact with us. And I get that. I totally get that. But it's the culture that makes me think that the culture that we live in, where I'm like, does this album matter? Does this podcast matter? These are the questions that I'm asking, you know? yeah Yeah.
Speaker: And what am I measuring? Am I measuring what we are talking about in the beginning, which is it makes people feel more grounded and human? Or is it because this podcast needs to be in the top 10?
Speaker: Yeah, and I think why why it matters that we have this question about why it matters and is that I see um Christians in the arts stop making work or not make work because of this question.
Speaker: And so that like, if it if it's something that's defeat becoming defeatist, then it like it's a it is a problem. It is a problem if we're so, and and i I think we should look at the biblical lens because the cultural lens says that something is only worth something if it fixes, accomplishes, achieves, earns money, earns status,
Speaker: um is, you know, and and for for artists, that's like, it ends up being shown in this gallery or this museum or it's Oscar nominated or you have this many hits or you have like, these are the metrics that show whether or not Our work is, you know, are you making a living through this? This is the the standard by which it matters. Or from a Christian standpoint, did it cause people to come to know Jesus? Or did it change the way people saw something? Or did it affect... um
Speaker: some particular change in this way that we can measure. And the problem with allowing ourselves to continue evaluating our work through those lenses is that it a can stop um motivation for even creating at all.
Speaker: But I think it it gets sticky because it gets ah it gets into our art making process itself. So we start making towards that end. And especially if we're afraid of the value of exploring what's inside of us as a human and exploring the human condition, um there's valuable work that might never be created.
Speaker: um that will never be or might not be predicted to be successful in a marketplace, but needs to be made. And I think that this this just then goes into that deeper question of what is art even for?
Speaker: Like, is it fair to expect art to fix something or to do something in particular or Is art making fundamentally for something else? Is it meant to remind us to love something?
Speaker: And what is that something? Or invite others to love something? But I think, like I will say, I'll ah kind of just, this is a statement, not so much a question, but I think that in this culture where we are more and more shaped by quote unquote content,
Speaker: creators and influencers are becoming, I'm calling cultural priests and prophets. So they are already doing this work of narrating our history and telling us who we are and inviting us into who we must become. And we're and we've entered into a moment where imagination itself is becoming one of the primary exploration battlegrounds of culture and i think that we as artists of faith maybe have more of a responsibility to enter into that conversation um then we realize about what it means to be human because we know that artists have always been integral to shaping culture and how societies imagine reality and mean not only do they mirror the values and beliefs and priorities of society they
Speaker: Invite us into an imagining of what might be. So I i wonder if perhaps the Bible has a different view of you know, why we should make art and what art does and what it's for.
Speaker: So I think that's that's really, really important. So for us to ask, what is the biblical precedent? How does God address whatever the question is, even beyond maybe our um Christian tradition to maybe allow a little bit of space and questioning for that. So I think there's another question that's underneath this whole big thing, which really has to do with what is worthy of somebody's time and what is wasteful.
Speaker: Because I think the the bottom line here is that we're internalizing messages that say that making art is a waste of time. It's indulgent. It's nice if you have time. It's extra.
Speaker: um But in general, and this again is a modernist view of the world, that sensory acts ah are, it's it's a waste of time and money and energy.
Speaker: and so we get to this like, is feeding the poor more important? Yeah. You know, should I make art or should I spend this money feeding the poor? Should I spend the time in my studio or should I volunteer at the homeless shelter? Should I, you know, do this or should I go serve at church or whatever?
Speaker: But I think this is a false dichotomy. So we're saying an either or, and that's not the paradigm of the Bible. um So that's I'd like to explore what the Bible has to say about what is worthy and what is wasteful and about whether or not ethereal things or symbolic things are actually a waste of time, according to Jesus.
Speaker: The perfect story for this, in my opinion, is the story of the woman who anoints Jesus with expensive oil in the New Testament. And we see it in, or a version of it, and all of the Gospels have this um this story, but it's like dead on about wasting and supposedly good uses of your time and money.
Speaker: So, I'm just going to read this story from the Matthew 26, 6-13 version. While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.
Speaker: When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. Why this waste? This perfume could have been sold at a high price in the money given to the poor. Aware of this, Jesus said to them,
Speaker: why are you bothering this woman she has done a beautiful thing to me the poor you will always have with you but you will not always have me when she poured this perfume on my body she did it to prepare me for burial truly i tell you wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world what she has done will also be told in memory of her And we don't know like if the woman, I'm sure she didn't know the full significance of what she was doing.
Speaker: It was just like, I just envision her like she just senses something, like something in her very, that's very deep and personal has been moved by Jesus. And so she just expresses it.
Speaker: And in in doing that, she she ends up saying something to generations and generations with bigger reverberations than her intent. Like Jesus said, because of her act, like she will be remembered.
Speaker: Like we're still reading this story to this day, but she wasn't doing something to make a point or preach a sermon or make an impact. She was expressing something in a very sensory way that was a response to something that moved her, which drew attention to the reality that was in front of them.
Speaker: So then we have to ask, was that money well spent? Was that a waste? It was a lot of money. It was an alabaster flask. It was very expensive and point ointment.
Speaker: I said it was like, it was 300. They make a point. It was 300 denarii, like a year's wages. And she broke it. So it can't be put back. It can't be saved or revisited. She's not holding anything back. It's extravagant.
Speaker: It's sacrifice, it's abandonment. How embarrassing to have somebody do this to you in in in front of everyone at a dinner party. That's not something that happened on a regular regular basis. There's no calculation. we contrast that with Judas and the disciples. And it's interesting because it's clear in the way that this story is told that they are the tempters here.
Speaker: Like they're the bad guys in the story. They're the deceiver characters. Jesus firmly rejects the question, why this waste?
Speaker: I think that's so interesting because I... Like that was the question that I kind of came to around our question of why does it matter that I make art when there are so many more important things in the world? But that's really the question in my gut, like why this waste?
Speaker: There's this condemning voice. And then here it is in the Bible that the disciples are saying exactly that about this outpouring, why this waste?
Speaker: Jesus's response is, she has done a beautiful thing to me. I love that response. I love like, can you imagine when you have those doubts and feelings and you just change the question, like you recognize that's that question, why are you wasting your time?
Speaker: And Jesus is saying, do a beautiful thing to me. Ooh, that feels really, really powerful. And it's like, this is exactly what he's talking about. Because she, so Jesus talked, it's like, what she did was ah appropriate.
Speaker: her extravagant, wasteful act, what it was doing in that moment, it drew attention to the reality of who Jesus was and what that reality is supposed to do to your heart, like in a really subversive, rebellious, seemingly frivolous way.
Speaker: And when the disciples are asking this question, why this waste? And they're talking about the quote unquote poor as like a category of people. what it highlights is that they're not seeing the intensity of what is happening before their very eyes.
Speaker: Like Jesus affirms that caring for the poor is important, but it doesn't displace the need to see and to worship is what he's saying. Because if you really look at what the the disciples are concerned with,
Speaker: They're concerned with a category more than an actual person and what's really happened. they're They're concerned with the perception of goodness, of what somebody might say that they wasted this perfume when they could have done something good. What are people going to say about that?
Speaker: And they're missing the fact that they have Jesus in their midst telling them what's going to happen, that He's going to die, all of these things. He's been telling them and they're missing it.
Speaker: And Jesus is saying, you're always going to have the opportunity to minister to the poor. But if your hearts aren't properly aligned when I'm in the room with you, what does that say about your actions when I'm not?
Speaker: Like, it's not just a rule to help the poor. It's not just being good or fixing the situation. The situation is never going to be permanently fixed. on this side of eternity. Like we're always going to have to care for each other. That's part of the contract. That's what we're supposed to do. That's not what's at stake, but that isn't enough.
Speaker: It's not enough, right? Survival isn't what? Survival isn't sufficient. That's not enough. Jesus invites us to have transformed hearts and transformed sight and transformed ears and transformed lives.
Speaker: And we are so easily blinded in our efforts to righteously or efficiently do the right thing. That gets into a world of mess all the time.
Speaker: But what Jesus is asking for us is to have a a heart that is tuned to Him. It takes sight and it takes ears.
Speaker: And it's really fascinating that in the Bible, God always uses art and story and beauty and performance and prophetic acts to draw our attention to this. That's how Jesus teaches is through story.
Speaker: So I, yeah, I just returned to that question. Like when, when you have that voice that says, oh is this a waste of time to hear Jesus say, do a beautiful thing to me?
Speaker: And I think that is that is the, it's such a parallel because whether she was intending it or not, her act was helping or so was shaping, was drawing attention to something that needed to be noticed.
Speaker: By caring about something, it pointed to something of value. it drew attention. it it Our work teaches people to see and care. which is why it's important for us to be aware of what it is we're teaching people to see and care about.
Speaker: But that is priestly and prophetic work, reminding us of where we where we come from, just like the the tabernacle, reminding us of what story we're in, of who whose God is our God, and and helping us to attend to reality of the present moment honestly, truthfully, embodiedly,
Speaker: with a view and with that lens of the anticipation of the fulfillment of God's work in the world. I think art does this in really powerful ways. And I i really do.
Speaker: feel like this is a story. So maybe, you know, in addition to like this question of of what does it look like to do something beautiful to Jesus, for Jesus, I like to Jesus instead of for, because for can get into the like, I'm going to do it for God and God's going be pleased with me, as opposed to I'm going to do this to Jesus. I'm going to give a gift.
Speaker: I'm going to respond. i'm goingnna I'm going to interact through my work. So I guess if if you would buy this idea that our art making helps shape people's perception of reality, then then that kind of gets into this question we're exploring this season of what what is, how do we become the kind of people that we need to be to do that kind of work?
Speaker: If stewardship of cultural imagination is one of the places where who we are and what we love is formed, Maybe I can be asking myself instead, what kind of imagination am I helping to cultivate?
Speaker: Am I doing a beautiful thing to Jesus? I think that question about why is this a waste is centuries and centuries of us asking that question. You know, why, why this waste? You know, from the stern parent asking you why you're going to art school because it's such a waste of time to your friend not understanding why you put so much time into creating something.
Speaker: and it's really just about people just don't get it And so their assumption is that it's a waste. And even Jesus saying ah it's it's not a waste had no bearing on them, you know, but it has bearing on us. So...
Speaker: Yeah, you can look back in retrospect. They could see back in retrospect. Yeah, I mean, that that's a great point. That takes us all the way back to that beginning question of what if it doesn't seem like it's going to do anything or have an effect? What if, in fact, the reaction is really, really bad? you know How do I justify that? and And so that's like validating that the challenge is real.
Speaker: And that's why it's so important for us to be able to do this work for ourselves so that we can stand with the authority of understanding what we as practitioners of art making do and question the premise that we should be expected to do anything other than that.
Speaker: Yeah, i I think the question going back to why make something or why this waste is just as important as the answer, which is do something beautiful. Like you need you need to have the negative to get to the answer.
Speaker: The important question is why this waste? So us as creators and artists can answer to do something beautiful. Yeah. And, you know, for Jesus or for our hearts or for love.
Speaker: And that sort of like goes back to what I was thinking about that question or even better question is, am I, am I expecting my art to fix something or is my art reminding me to love something?
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. And I think what you just said is extremely important too, like the power of actually naming the real question underneath that.
Speaker: that like, why is this a waste or is this a waste of time? Because as long as we're thinking that the question about why it matters, you know, what about the poor? Should I, you know, we're never, we don't get to the, to the heart of the matter. And as soon as we can name it as like a real solid question, like what's really going on is like, is this a waste of time or somebody telling us that it is?
Speaker: then I think there's also something probably within our artistic sensibility that weigh wells up and is like, no that's I don't believe that at all. But yeah, to have that that biblical affirmation that Jesus didn't feel feel that way either.
Speaker: Yeah, and i think I think in our lives now, and even a biblical story, that that what can be perceived to us as the negative question is really important to explore. So we actually have a rebuttal, you know, so we have a response. So it's not just a word response, but a creative response.
Speaker: So in actuality, we need everyone to say, you're wasting your time. And then we just say, no, I'm not. And so I think we we need more of the, no, we're not.
Speaker: What if we all just kind of sit with like a different question this week? Or maybe like when you start to notice, if you start to notice that that that question of like... you know why Why art when there's so many real things happening in the world or however that kind of pops up for you?
Speaker: Like, what are you assuming is more necessary or more real or more faithful than art making? Maybe sit with that question, because that's what we're talking about is like, get to the bottom of what that question is for you and just notice and sit with it and ask God what he wants you to hear know.
Speaker: Because ah i and I think it is so important that we do it. And I keep saying it, and I know I'm a broken record, but I feel like people really need to hear that it is important for artists of faith to be doing their work right now.
Speaker: And your rebellious, angsty song matters. or your movie about the difficulty of dating or divorce, or your poem about losing a child, or your play about being fed up with disappointing politicians or religious leaders, or your sci-fi book, or your comedy routine, whatever it is, we need you to complete that.
Speaker: We need you to do that work. Because we need to be reminded of the truth of who we are and where we come from and where we're going and of hope and possibility and redemption. We need your particular stories about life.
Speaker: Yes, as Christians in the arts. Artists have always been among those helping society see and translate reality. And if that's true, then your calling is about far more than self-expression. It's about stewardship.
Speaker: Stewardship of imagination, of culture, of the stories that help us remember what it means to be human.
Speaker: Throughout the season of the Be Make Do podcast, we'll dive deeper into how to do this well together. Next time, we'll consider the idea that art is never neutral. There's always a world behind the work.
Speaker: Thanks for listening to Be Make Do, a Soulmakers podcast. Be sure to leave us a review and rating to help others find us. If you want to get more information on Soulmakers and join the movement, visit soulmakers.org.
Speaker: All links pertaining to this episode can be found in our show notes. Catch you next time.
