Transcript
Speaker: Hello, welcome back to Be Make Do, a Soulmakers podcast, where we explore what it takes to live out your call in the arts with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom. I'm your host, Lisa Smith, here with our producer, Danny BH. Hello, everyone.
Speaker: and as always, it is our passion to encourage you to become who you were created to be, make what you were created to make, and do what you were created to do. So yeah, we're gearing up for our next season of the podcast. And it feels like we're back from the summer, but actually we're not quite back from the summer. or back from the spring. There's been so many things that have been going on You had a sabbatical. i had a surprise trip to France. and There's just so much happening. how How was that? How was that time of of rest and
Speaker: and stepping away from things. We talk about that so much and it's so hard. And we finally did that. I took one last year. You took one this year. Yeah, I mean, it was as intentional as in anything I've really done recently besides like obviously work stuff and and what we do here at Soulmakers and and all that. But I think for me, it was sort of like turning the lens on me. yeah How do I rest? How do i break away from things? How do I explore things? Am I adventurous person anymore?
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Am I a restful person? And you took a trip that was really adventurous and restful. You went out to the middle of the note of nowhere in the desert and then wandered the streets of Austin. And then it were like when you were mapping it out for me, I was like, wow, this is like quest time or something. Yeah, and you know, i i want to just say like I think the planning of the sabbatical was a part of the sabbatical, as opposed to I'm just off and I'm just going to do these things. like that That really set off how to set good intentions. you know I worked on planning my sabbatical for literal months.
Speaker: Yeah. um And getting in my head about things like, am I going to do it right? Or what if this happens? and and But just having the initial goal, like, what are my goals? And then them happening in real time ah gave me a sense of like...
Speaker: affirmation i was it was very well needed yeah so just to recap yeah i went to the sandia park uh area of new mexico and then i went to austin texas and then i went on a group retreat later ah later when i got back right and then that last week I just spent with friends and family celebrating my birthday, ah which was also planned and and very intentional. yeah But circling back, ah one little...
Speaker: factoid about New Mexico, and I want to say this to you and our listeners, was that that was the biggest challenge for me because I purposely went to the desert to be alone. And if you guys are getting to know me a little bit, I don't like to be alone. I love to be with people. I love to be with my friends. I love hanging out with my wife. I I love my dog, I love my work, i i I love you, Lisa, I love our community, I love church, I love going to church, I love going to services, and i didn't have any of that. And so going to New Mexico, I knew that I was gonna struggle with being alone. And so I think setting off the sabbatical is like, well, let's just get this out of the way.
Speaker: was such a good move. um And I challenge anybody to do that. It's not that I'm dependent on people. I just like, I like to be, I feel like I'm my true self when I'm with people, listening to people, talking with people and doing things with people. um But I think that also is incredible draining.
Speaker: I think that, i you know, i am getting older. And so I i will say that Being in the desert by yourself where all you can do is walk, pray, think. And I did get a chance to write music for myself, which was one of my favorite things. And and funny, since we talk about this all the time, especially about...
Speaker: the identification is, am I really an artist? I'll tell you, Lisa, that on day two of being, i wouldn't say stranded, but purposefully stranded in the desert. But on the second day, i was like, I need to make music right now. And I had nothing on me. You had that impulse, like, because you didn't have a guitar, you didn't have I had nothing.
Speaker: and it wasn't And it didn't come from a sense of boredom and it didn't come from thecent it came from a sense of, okay, now it's just you and God and the mountains. The desert, well, the desert has mountains and wild horses. By day two, I got into my rental vehicle and made some calls. First of all, i had no phone reception, made some calls once I got 15 miles out onto the road and I drove into downtown ah Albuquerque like at Saturday like at 10 in the morning calling all of these music stores.
Speaker: Yeah. ah to see if anyone would rent me a guitar and luckily i did find this really nice guy named stan and my name's dan so i know it was meant to be and he just rented me a guitar for super cheap and i got to take it back to this like desert cottage and just write music and that's when it' sunk in it's like okay Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. and and And all the stuff I wrote was good. Yeah. Like I just wrote it and I listened back to it and I had no, nothing was working. I had no internet, right? Like I literally had to, had my computer with Pro Tools open and I couldn't even use Pro Tools because I couldn't connect to the internet. So I like had to use a voice memo.
Speaker: on my phone and I would just write songs like every hour, just whatever came out. And I can't remember the last time I've done that because in my band Flower Bomb or any band I'm in, it's very strategic. Like time is set, we're doing this and you know you're working on something that's already kind of formulated. yeah you know yeah And so the way of thinking is very different and would hope that a lot of our listeners who are artists actually do that all the time. But for someone like me, who's very task-oriented and very schedule-oriented, I don't get to do that very often. I do not. And so, yeah, it was incredible.
Speaker: Let me ask you, because I'm thinking of several conversations that I've had recently with taking that kind of time to go away and be totally unplugged. Like, was that hard for you? i feel like for so many people, the I'm sure there's lots of people like, oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.
Speaker: But I could never do that because but bla blah, blah, blah, blah. And I know for you, that is difficult to step away and feel... But it kind of sounds like the benefits of doing that maybe even exceeded what you were expecting. I mean, how how did you feel before you left and how did you kind of address those feelings to be able to leave and leave it all behind and be surprised that the world didn't fall apart?
Speaker: Yeah, it was. did it fall apart? I don't know. No, it didn't fall apart. If anything, was better. Like the world felt, my world that I live in felt better. Like I, I mean, you saw me when I first got back.
Speaker: you know yeah i i looked great yeah you were free it felt like there was this weight lifted off you you had this perspective you had this sense of being in touch with yourself as a musician and spiritually yeah i both and as a husband and a co-worker and as a band member you know i started it really helped me It didn't kind of. It helped me with the question of now what's next.
Speaker: And so it was sort of like beyond sabbatical, I got to recap all all those tasks and all those things. you know I remember ah just wrapping things up here for work and and just like excited that it was done, but also exhausted and yeah like to get to that finish line. But when I got back,
Speaker: It just felt like, okay, well, what's next? In all senses, by the way, like even like in my music life, it was like sort of like, well, what's next now? you know yeah like what What am I going to do next? Am I going to keep doing music stuff with these projects? Or am I going to venture off and do my own thing? Or am I going to go into another creative endeavor?
Speaker: I don't know the the answers to those yet, but I've never been in a position where I was able to do that because it's like, okay, well, I'm on break and now I'm right back in it, you know? Well, let me ask you, were before you left on sabbatical, were you asking those questions or did you start asking, were you able to ask those questions because you took sabbatical or were you able to address them in a different way because you went on sabbatical? Yeah.
Speaker: I was able to address those in a different and in in a different way because of the sabbatical led to rest and me letting go of things. i was able to have those questions enter my brain or God gave them to me to be like, okay, well, let's ask these questions now.
Speaker: So just like new possibilities. Yeah. And the reason why I'm asking is because I know like when we get into that place where we're so booked and we're so into the routine and we we um accept the limitations or the structure that we have for ourselves or the expectations we think others have for us,
Speaker: it can be difficult to think about any alternative or even shifting things in any way because you're so enmeshed with what's happening that it feels like to to change anything, is going to it's just going to be more trouble than it's worth.
Speaker: Whereas disrupting the system by stepping away almost in itself says, okay, well, I'm not there now. The system is already disrupted. What if I disrupted it a little bit more? Like it's not as crazy maybe as it feels like it. I don't know. That's just kind of trying to get from you what what that was like. Yeah, well, I don't think there was anything more disruptive in my entire life at this point this year than to physically remove myself.
Speaker: Right. Like I physically, like it it was this was all purposeful. Like I knew that I was going to have an issue going away. I knew that I was going to sit into the uncomfortableness of that, but because I got to sit in that and be in that and rest in it. I wasn't just sitting there like in the desert by myself being like, when is it going to be over? When's going to be over? It was sort of like, you know I went through the motions that a person like me or any person like that would be slightly uncomfortable. But instead of like waiting for the uncomfortableness to wear off, i just I just fed into it and be like, okay, why am I uncomfortable? Yeah. Yeah. It's not just because I'm away from my people or what I know.
Speaker: Yeah. i'm uncomfortable because now I'm going to answer these questions. Yeah. So the questions are, what is next? Yeah. what do you think What do you think made you prepared to be able to be in that space? Was it just because it was like, okay, it's time for you to take sabbatical, get out of here? Or had you had how did you get your mind in a place where you were able to...
Speaker: to feel comfortable or maybe you didn't feel comfortable embracing that question, those questions. Well, it' was sort of like taking like your superpower. So one of my superpowers is pre-planning.
Speaker: so like pre-planning for that sabbatical what led me to, well, what questions do, what are the obstacles I think I'm going to run into? And what are my goals? I remember, yeah you know, I sent you and a lot of people from Soulmakers and Convergence what I was doing. Like, this is what my plan is. And I would say that I hit all those goals, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I would say the pre-planning, I pre-planned that I was going to have trouble. Right, right. And then like I knew it. and so So that's not a surprise or a problem. It's part of why you're doing it. Well, it's sort of like just coming face to face in the mirror with yourself and calling yourself out and say, you you have these setbacks. These are the things that stop you from going away. These are the things that stop you because you think...
Speaker: that you're not going to feel comfortable. And so, you know, get uncomfortable. Right. And, and so what, what that did was it helped me answer the question that I've struggled with for a long time is, am I a true artist?
Speaker: Am I a true creator? Am I a good creator? And the answer is yes. That's awesome. I am. Yeah. And so just getting playback on a crappy phone recording, I was listening back. i'm like, this is really good.
Speaker: And I'm Mr. Critique. I mean, I play a great show and I'll be like, i I could have been better, you know? Yeah. Like, because I think all eyes are on me for a second, you know? And that's not right what's happening. I was in a desert where no one's ever going to hear any of the stuff I did except me and God. Right.
Speaker: Good enough for him. Good enough for me. ah You know? Yeah. I've had things in my life where, you know, i started these goals more like, and you remember a long time ago, I like went on my like journey. It was, it was like a self ah sabbatical, but it was like me unplugging and it was all unplugging from social media, but it became unplugging from people. yeah It became unplugging from things that I was doing yeah that maybe I shouldn't have been doing, whether that was something that just wasn't good for me and or just like not worth my time and coming to terms with that. This was like a bigger spectrum of that, you know? yeah um And so as I get older and wiser, of course, I'm able to notice that immediately. yeah Right?
Speaker: And so to answer that question, I've i asked him like, am I an artist? It was like, Heck yeah, you are yeah Absolutely. Because that feeling that's stirring in you being said, I need to create something. And then you know also having the freedom and ah the luxury just to get up and go do it. you know And I think people take that for granted sometimes. like You can create. I was in the middle of the desert yeah and I still found a piece of wood with still strings on it you know
Speaker: Take it back to the beginning. Take that AI music. Yeah. So, yeah, with my hands, you know? And I had a... the most beautiful backdrop ever. you know Not my backyard, not your front yard, not here at the church, which I love all of those places. yeah But i I don't think I'm able to create that freely in those places because I got the responsibility. I'm husband, I'm friend, I'm bandmate, I'm partner in work. You know what i mean? And so removing yourself into a location
Speaker: that you know you're going to feel different and slightly insecure. Yeah. I think it's the best way to go. It's like throwing yourself in the tunnel or the hole or the ditch or the water. You know how much I hate water. So, you know, that's why I went to the desert. I'm like, no water in sight. ah No, I love that. And I love your experience. And i feel like it's so encouraging because – a lot of what gets people stuck in a place is that fear that they're not just a fear of the unknown, but the fear of what they think is probably going to happen. Like the fear of what, what is lurking underneath and that attitude to, you know,
Speaker: take that on like, but, but I love the planning too. Like I think it's hard to stop or it's hard to take a break or it's hard to go away because what's going to happen in that space or it feels like I'm quitting or I'm giving up or I'm running away.
Speaker: and it could really be helpful to be able to plan that out to say, okay, I'm going to make space to ask a question, just like we ask in our spiritual collectives, God, what do you want to say to me in this?
Speaker: And then just leave a whole bunch of space to listen to the answer. And I think it's really encouraging to hear what happened for you that something really good came out of it, which of course it did, because you went away with God, you know, to to find stuff out. and yeah And that answer, I mean, that's a really brave question, I think. Like, am I really an artist? Like, I hear so many people asking that question, but not really asking that question.
Speaker: But how what a gift to get the answer to that come back to you. Yeah, it took long enough. yes
Speaker: Well, ah you know, i last thing i'll say on this is that I think... I think planning, like something you're really good at, like let's say for me is planning, but also to let go of the things that if those things didn't happen fully, yeah to to be, all right, well, now now what's next? Okay. you know But I will say the goal setting was super important, but I also think it's great to do something super spontaneous.
Speaker: And so I would love to ask you about that spontaneous trip you just took. Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, i was jealous because I took a sabbatical last year, but I didn't really go anywhere. It wasn't it wasn't ah that kind of adventure. And when you were outlining your sabbatical, I was like...
Speaker: gosh, mine was boring. Like, I want to go somewhere word too. So yeah, when ah we got informed sometime in May, I guess, that my husband, who's a a composer and comp composed a score for a documentary for a filmmaker he works for a lot, um,
Speaker: the The filmmaker was entering the... We're taking the film to Cannes for the film festival this year. And they were going and they're like, let's all go. and I was like, no way. We can't do that. We don't have enough time. We don't have them enough money.
Speaker: But most importantly, we haven't done anything like that in a really, really long time. And so just considering the idea of going to France to go to Cannes, it was like, this is a chance of a lifetime. this is This is an experience of a lifetime. Kind of we have to go. But it just really brought to the surface, I mean, we have ah an almost 11-year-old daughter COVID happened six years ago and we went online, like my world, our worlds have gotten very, very small. It's very neighborhood and online oriented. Like we just really haven't done much travel and we're getting older. And so it just kind of felt like,
Speaker: I don't even know if we can do this. I don't, you know, another language, all of these, did we planned this elaborate trip where we did a lot of different traveling and traveling by trains and cars and planes and all kinds of things.
Speaker: But I actually got an email that same week where were trying to decide if this was the right thing to do from an arts organization in France, in Paris called La Fonderie that I connected with years ago who were,
Speaker: It's a group of Christians in the arts who are professionals who are working and exploring a lot of the very same questions that we do. And I am and very inspired by them and love them and follow them and get their emails. But they were having a retreat the same week as the film festival where we were going to be.
Speaker: And so I contacted them to see if we could come and join them a little bit late. And they were like, yeah, definitely. Let's come. So all these pieces just sort of fell into place. We figured out financially how we could do it. And so we thought, okay, we're just going like, we're going to go and either, oh um like, we're just going to like be on the side of a ditch at some point because we're not going to know where to go and we don't have money for gas or what, you know, something bad is going to happen, but we'll figure it out. We'll just see how we, how we go. And so that was a huge part of the trip for us was just,
Speaker: Like, where are we in our life? Where are we in our risk um tolerance? Where are we in our ability to figure things out and be around people we don't know and And man, we killed it.
Speaker: It was awesome. Yeah. Like it was awesome. And planning, I will say though, planning had a big, big part in that for us too. Yeah. Because we made sure that we had all of the the logistics solidly planned out and, you know, like organized and we knew where to find it, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So that those pieces, we had marks to hit. Yeah. um It did not always go according to plan. Like when we got on a train and realized as we were going that it was not going to go far enough for us. We were we thought we were going to go to Nice, but it was only going to take us to um to, oh gosh, I don't even remember the name of the town, but not quite far enough. And so then we had to call the car rental place and like negotiate as internet was going in and out. Like, can we get our car reservation changed to this other station, blah blah, blah. But we did. And we ended up in this little town that we would not have normally gotten to go to. And so our first experience in France was getting off the train and going to this little cafe across from this old train station and sitting and ordering crepes. And it was wonderful.
Speaker: So it definitely was an opportunity to... I don't know, for me, I was really challenged in the areas of risk and adventure and play and process, um getting to meet these artists, seeing how God is working in other parts of the world in exactly the same ways, like making beautiful friendships right off the bat, um praying for each other and finding ways to connect.
Speaker: being able to share things that we share on the podcast with people about vocation and seeing that be meaningful there. All of these things were very affirming. um But also just like the film itself and talking with a filmmaker about that was a crazy experience. And I would love to have him on the podcast to talk about it because the the film itself was a documentary of something that was supposed to happen and how it all went wrong.
Speaker: But in the all of it going wrong, they ended up finding the ending of the movie. So like he said, we were having we were having lunch in a cafe right before we were getting ready to go to the screening of the film. And I was just asking him a bunch of questions about why like, why did he keep going with this even when things kept falling apart? Yeah. And two things. One, he was really adamant that he just doesn't create for the audience.
Speaker: He creates what he feels curious and compelled to create. Yeah. And then, it but then he was saying that the film that was being shown at Cannes would not have been made if it hadn't have been for the failures.
Speaker: Yeah. So basically we were sitting at Cannes because of the failures and the mistakes that happened and because of persevering through them. But if he had made the film that he originally set out to make, he wouldn't be at Cannes.
Speaker: Like that was really powerful for me um of of the importance of perseverance. So I just, I brought a lot back from that trip on a number of different levels. God was really kind of working on me and working on my husband, but for that idea of You know, how do you get up when you keep getting knocked down, when you keep things just are not working out the way that you want, they're not being received the way that you want.
Speaker: You've been doing it for a long time, like this film took years to make because of all the things that happened. um And that idea of like where you arrive and what you end up creating isn't possible without all the mess and the, you know, like there's something new on the other side. yeah And just being willing to be curious enough about art making itself that you're willing to just do it because you feel compelled to do it, that that is really worth it. I think maybe at the end of it, what I really needed was to hear somebody who's dedicated to that say, yes, it is worth it.
Speaker: Even if nobody else gets it, likes it, understands it. the process of making the film for me was worth it. And that was just very affirming because I think sometimes as people in that category of like,
Speaker: you know, visionary thinking or whatever that it it can feel like, is it worth it? Everybody else says that it's not. um So yeah, it was very, very encouraging trip. So I'm kind of still processing what all of that, what all of that means for me, but I definitely feel more um inspired and encouraged to be bolder yeah and to play more.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think one thing that hearing, well, many things I'm hearing, but one of the things that I feel like there's a through line there was that, mean, know you pretty well. So like, I know like ah opportunities are not as easy for you to say yes to. And you did, that's exactly what he did. You said, yeah, let's just figure it out. yeah And especially with everything that's going on in your life,
Speaker: I mean, look what you stumble upon. You stumbled upon an adventure with your husband. You stumbled upon it stopping, taking a quick break from work to to take this opportunity to have these conversations with fellow artists, people you know, people you don't know, going through the language barrier, and then, boom, getting to go to a retreat ah kind of in the same area of people that you have been talking to and been involved with for well over a decade. yeah And look how that all worked out. and like you know I hate to say the word serendipitous, but like you know it's serendipitous, but it's also like God wanted you to be there.
Speaker: and And now look where we're at. We're doing a podcast and we're talking about it. Yeah. And the opportunities for the future are there as well. There was so much that they gave to us and I i gleaned from that, but they were also very curious and asking a lot of questions. We're talking about resource sharing and how do we create curriculum for artists in somebody in Mexico, somebody who's running a university there and in France and in Switzerland. And yeah, it's, it's incredible. And it's, it's a real gift when you get to be with people who are curious about the same things that you're curious about. And yeah you can really encourage each other. Like, it feels like, okay, well, if God's talking to you that way, all the way over here, and he's talking to me this way, all the way over here, then there is something to this.
Speaker: And we can really, i don't know, get confidence from that. Yeah. So yeah, I love that idea of like stumbling on things. you You say yes, you take that reckless yes, and then you stumble onto good things. And even the challenging things, like you were saying, even the challenging things get turned into good things when you're curious about it. And when it's an adventure with God, you're like, okay, why is this such a challenge for me? Yeah. And then you spend time letting him tell you about that.
Speaker: Yeah, it was huge, huge. So I'm moving to France and the south of France is very lovely. I'm moving Austin, Texas. I will miss you all, but we can still do the podcast virtually. Yeah, that's no problem. See you later. All right, bye. Bye.
Speaker: No, this is great. Yeah. I think being able to share, I mean, it was a, it was a ah remarkable summer or time, whatever it's been for us. um And I think getting to kind of come back and share these experiences with each other, it's like always a testimony of what God is doing and how we can continue to grow. And I think for us, like, okay, let's keep taking risks and get excited about it again. and hopefully for our listeners,
Speaker: you're also feeling like, okay, I can take an adventure. I can take a risk too, to be able to see what's on the other side. Like wherever that thing is that feels like an obstacle or barrier or a question, or even I'm afraid that I'm going to let people down, that you can ah like get curious about it and approach it and then apply all of these things that we're talking about And see what's on the other side, because there's always something good on the other side, even if it's really, really challenging.
Speaker: There's a growth opportunity there where God is, you know, it's an opportunity always to, for God to work. um But I would say like one of the, I think the main thing I would even just take away from this conversation is how you getting curious about, am I really an artist to get that question answered for yourself in a way that can't be given by an audience or, you know, a band member or a family member or a fan, but let that like answer for yourself from yourself and from God is just such a huge gift. And I,
Speaker: I would venture that there are a lot of people who would really have that same kind of question and would really benefit from taking some time to just sit with that question for themselves with God. Yeah.
Speaker: Wow. Well, thanks for sharing all of this stuff. This is this is a really, it was cool to kind of share about these experiences, encourage each other. It's great to catch up with you. Great to catch up with our listeners. I'm super excited about this new season. Yeah. Excited about what comes next.
Speaker: Thanks for listening. I hope you'll join us for this season of the Be Make Do Soulmakers podcast. We're going to explore what it means to be an artist in this moment of cultural fragmentation, technological acceleration, and spiritual longing.
Speaker: How do we carry that responsibility with courage, integrity, and hope? Together, we're going to explore what it takes to become who you were created to be, make what you were created to make, and do what you were created to do.
Speaker: Thanks for catching out with us. We can't wait to kick off season six of the Be Make Do podcast on September 22nd. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to get more information on Soulmakers and join the movement, visit soulmakers.org and sign up.
Speaker: Catch you next time.
