Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
EP 61 - Working With A Recruiter with Andrew Stahl
30 Plays3 months ago
My guest today is Andrew Stahl, who founded his Executive Recruiting firm in 2014. This year, his firm celebrates ten years of service to the global rail industry. I’m proud to have been counted among their many clients, having their help to land a previous, but wonderful position at a firm that fit my skills, personality, and career aspirations at the time.
Andrew and I have a two-part conversation. This episode introduces the ins & outs of working with a recruiting firm. We learn about the important role they play in railroading and other industries. We’ll take into account the perspectives of candidate, recruiter, and employer.
Then in Episode 62, we explore the amazing industry of railroading and public transit where we’ve both enjoyed rewarding careers.
Visit: stahlrecruiting.com
For more info & to download a free PDF of today's episode notes, visit: www.chriskreuter.com/CDWI
Join the Kreuter Studios mailing list: https://mailchi.mp/810367311f3d/ksb
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:08
Speaker
On Chris deals with it, I talk about the frameworks and methods I use to clear personal, creative, and professional roadblocks. My goal is to help others bridge the gap between where they're at now and what they want to achieve. If you're new to the show, I'm an engineer, writer, parent, game designer, leader, and reader who leverages that experience to develop creative solutions to problems. An AI statement that all elements of this episode are products of the author, Chris Croyder, and made without the use of any AI tools. Welcome to Episode 61 of Chris deals with it, working with a recruiter. My guest today is Andrew Stahl, who founded his executive recruiting firm in 2014. This year, his firm celebrates 10 years of service to the global rail industry. I'm proud to have been counted among their many clients, having their help to land a previous but wonderful position at a firm that fit my skills, personality, and career aspirations at the time.
00:01:01
Speaker
Andrew and I have a two part conversation. This episode introduces the ins and outs of working with the recruiting firm. We learn about the important role they play in railroading and many other industries. We'll take into account the perspectives of candidate, recruiter and the employer. Then in episode 62, we're going to explore the amazing industry of railroading and public transit where we've both enjoyed rewarding careers. For more information about Andrew Stahl and his recruiting firm, check out their website at stahlrecruiting.com. That's S-T-A-H-L, recruiting dot.com. As well as the free episode notes at chriscroiter dot.com. That's C-H-R-I-S-K-R-E-U-T-E-R dot.com. All right, let's get into our interview with Andrew Stahl.
00:01:46
Speaker
Andrew, welcome to the show. Ah, thanks. Thanks for having me and happy Friday. Introduce yourself, your firm and some of your career high points. Sure, sure. My firm is Stall Recruiting. Andrew Stall executive recruiters formerly or a small boutique firm, if you use the lingo, that's ah focused primarily and solely on the railroad industry. So we work with railways, bridge and engineering firms, technology firms, rail car lassoers, suppliers to the industry. literally anything that touches the railroad tracks. We work across North America, we're based out of Texas, but we're across North America, and generally mid to senior level placements manager-wise. So directors, ABPs, board seats, C-suites, that sort of folks. What led you to becoming a recruiter and founding the company? Oh my gosh, totally tangential route. I went to college on a music scholarships, segued into economics.
00:02:41
Speaker
Decided that was a really interesting arena went to graduate school and then when it came out ah structured financial derivatives of all things nothing I was really aiming for and a Long story short through a bunch of iterations. We were bought out by a multinational and they moved us to Chicago from California where arguably we should have been in the first place and nonetheless ah it was ah it was a different flavor it was a different it was more corporate than I was used to working at a as a startup and working with one of the co-founders and whatnot. So long story short, I had an interest in the railway industry. I did research with professors during graduate school and I reached out to an executive search firm to place me. And they said, well, gosh, you know, you've never been a conductor, don't have boots on the ground rail industry. Why don't you come join us? And that got me into the fold and learned the trade there. And growing up, my parents were very entrepreneurial. They bought some motels and properties and whatnot. and
00:03:35
Speaker
really kind of want to forge that same path. So in 2014, I opened up my own agency, specific to the rail industry. Yeah, so you talked about your firm being based in Texas, um and your some of your focus areas, but, you know, anything else that you want to talk about some of the history of how you start you have grown since 2014, or any career highlights? Well, I think it's like any time, probably any entrepreneur or someone starts their own firm, itss you always swallow a couple of times before you know you jump from the nest, so to speak. you know it's It's always a leap of faith. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of effort. But it's very, very rewarding. um The firm's grown. It's grown continually.
00:04:11
Speaker
Most importantly, I like the arena I operate in. ah Truthfully, i we so we're specific to the railroad industry, but I really wouldn't feel like I'd have the same flavor of intensity if I was in pharmaceuticals or aeronautics or whatnot. and Nothing against those folks or those industries, but I really have a draw to the railroad industry. I love it. it's It's very important to commerce. It's important to our history. um It's an integral to everything that we do. so I like the importance aspect and that feel like you're altruistically contributing to the greater good, if you will, of things. you You're furthering the country, and furthering the industry, and furthering people on their own individual career trajectories.
00:04:52
Speaker
yeah It's definitely an incredible industry and we'll definitely go unpack the railroading portion here later in our conversation. but but just ah We'll talk about working with a recruiter. I think at high level, this this is probably something that's applicable across industries, although as much as we'd love to recruit people into our industry. um yeah Why would an employer decide to hire any kind of recruiter versus like a job board or a posting site like you know Indeed or ZipRecruiter um or job placement services that might be you know ah temporary to hire? Sure. Well, I guess of working with a higher high level down, um it's tough to to find the right people. And it's a whole separate job to to fill a role. And it's costly to miss full fill a role, so to speak with someone that's not a good long term fit or doesn't have the right skill set. So at a very high level, it's a tough task, if you will. um But there's several reasons I think companies reach out to recruiters for even if they have own internal HR teams that that do that as part of their job description.
00:05:48
Speaker
One is they really don't want to tip off their competitors to the movements they're making. There also could be maybe they're replacing a high level person inside that's not performing well and they don't want to tip that person off. um The time and effort can be considerable and I think they a lot of the roles that we receive um, are very targeted and very nuanced. So putting an advertisement in the paper or LinkedIn or a zip recruiter or whatnot, nothing against those of course, but, um, they're so pointed that the probability of finding that individual is probably really, really limited. Um, and the other thing too, I would say is, is again, very high level. A lot of the folks that we reach out to and sort of tap on the shoulder, having developed relationships with them are oftentimes successful and happy in their roles.
00:06:34
Speaker
They're not looking to want ads. They're not feeding the brush for for their next job. They're they're moving along, running their teens and happy, happy. And so part of our role is to introduce them to other opportunities that may further their career or whatever their trajectory is, if you will. ah So much awesome stuff to unpack there. I mean, even things in our conversations over the years, I just haven't appreciated about the role. I mean, granted, you placed me many years ago, but and I always found that
00:07:05
Speaker
you took a lot of extra time to get to know me and also knew so much about that job where you know you talked about when you when you have a potential position that you're looking to recruit for and you might find a candidate who's got 70% of the job requirements but maybe has some value add in some other areas, you know how how do you go about finding identifying those gaps on either side and communicating it to both parties? Well, there's a use your word there's a lot to unpack there. um I guess from the big picture down, you want to know both sides. Both sides have a personality. I almost, I almost glibly liken this to like an executive dating service. I don't mean to diminish it too much, but there's a lot of the personal chemistry and synergies that really are key to this. So when a client is looking for a specific position for a specific role.
00:07:58
Speaker
It's okay to understand what the job tenets are, but you really want to understand what the personality of the firm is, what their mindset is, what what is their forward trajectory? What are they looking to solve? What issue are they looking to solve with this individual being placed in this role? And then when you and when you turn that towards the candidate, it's it's likewise very relationship-based. What's off the resume is often much more important than what's on the resume. So kind of yeah formulaically, If you're looking for an engineer or some sort of bridge design engineer or a head of business development, you want to look at their background, the individual background and resume. Does it tie into what the client is looking for? But it has to mesh with the gears, if you will, have to mesh in so many different ways. For instance, that person has something in their mind of what they were looking for in their next step. They often have a spouse with a career. They have children in school or maybe special needs or they need to be close to their parents. Everybody has these sort of tentacles out into the world that ties them to a certain places or certain trajectories. So understanding what's really important to that person is really the first step to to making that potential introduction for a potential pairing. So I guess get to can make it really brief or make more brief, one is for looking at a potential candidate. Do they have the skill set on paper, so to speak?
00:09:21
Speaker
But then it's really multiple conversations with them, developing a relationship, understanding what they're really looking for, and with their personality mesh with the personality of the company. Because that's really the aim as a long-term fit. It's not parking particular jobs. It's really furthering that person's career, putting them in place managerial with another company that's going to not only advance that company's interests and endeavors, but importantly as well, the individual will have a career path in front of them that they're keen on. So it's a very altruistic, everybody wins when it comes together, so to speak. no it's ah And again, playing that matchmaker, to use your terms, right? And it very much is, you you have you're trying to make a relationship happen. that's That's very tricky, but it can be kind of, for someone who hasn't worked with a recruiter before, maybe explain how recruiters make money and and what goes into it.
00:10:14
Speaker
it's It's basically where a people broker, I guess to put it simply, the client, the company, if you will, the hiring entity, ah pays a fee based on usually on the person's salary. It can be structured main in many different ways, but usually it's based on a a percentage of the individual's salary. um So there's no direct cost to the individual, the candidate, if you will, other than just time and effort. um If they're flown from Florida to New York to meet at the headquarters with the team, the client always pays for all the meals and the airfare and everything. So it's just kind of an effort. There's no cost to an individual to chat with a recruiter. And the other thing I would say too is all is confidential. So when we have conversations with everybody, individuals,
00:10:58
Speaker
it's It's confidential. It's always close to the vest because it's we would never want to jeopardize their current station for just a conversation. yes
00:11:10
Speaker
that now do you, again, you work for the rehiring firm, but what kind of guarantees do you need to provide them? You know, maybe some of the basic frameworks for contracts that you have with them just to, again, more to educate people on a recruiter role. Um, all the decisions I guess is, is, is based on what's within the contract, the four corners of the contract. Um, and while you're correct on a functional basis, the client is paying the freight, so to speak, to use that term, uh, from my vantage point as a recruiting owner, I can treat everyone equally like I'm a teeter totter because it has to work for both directions. And often the person you place in the company turns around and becomes a hiring manager as they move up. So it's a holistic approach, even though financially we're tied closer to the client in the sense that they're paying the free. You have to also be very mindful of that. It's a good fit for the individual as well, because when they come together, it's all part of the one. so
00:12:08
Speaker
So it's a very balanced approach, if if that makes sense. Yeah, no. um Again, that hiring firm, you know, what kind of legal obligations or even moral obligations do they have regarding salary disclosure ranges? You know, what information are they giving you? Or flexibility are they usually giving you because you do go from that medium to high end roles in order to help you find the right fits? Well, it's always on a case by case basis. But basically, usually, In going through the nuances of the role, you're looking at basic tenets that the client is looking for.
00:12:40
Speaker
And secondarily, you're looking for the goals and aspirations that the world is trying to accomplish. um There's a couple of different types of contracts. We operate on a retained basis where the client puts down money for us to go out and and use the capital, the money, capital cost, if you will, to to and ah to conduct a search. That's one way of doing it. For ourselves on a more nuanced basis, I believe we offer, I know we offer a 90 day guarantee for any individual and that's voice of course negotiable. But we do a lot of due diligence upfront and chatting multiple times with a candidate. So the probability of the individual joining a company and not working out is very, very slim. I think in my entire career, I've had it happen once or twice early on and both parties know within the first week. It's like an oil and water thing. I'm thinking one case where
00:13:38
Speaker
the candidate meant, the hiring manager, and they agreed to do it right then and there. And it turned out to be a little too quick, if you will. But it again, the the guarantee really never really comes into play, honestly. It's there, but it really never becomes a factor. You talked a bit about your career and the reputation you've earned because you do your due diligence. you've I mean, we had a relationship going back. eight, nine years now, something like that. all compell door fuck um Yeah, it's been many years. It's been many years. and I've always appreciated how you've kept in touch. um And again, your reputation in the railroading industry, especially as well earned. Can you talk about what it means to have earned that and what value it places on how you act going forward? Sure, sure. I guess it all kind of germinates from the seed as the individual. I guess that's how I operate.
00:14:33
Speaker
kind of as ah as a modus operandi as an individual and that just extends into the business. um The rail industry itself is I guess very insular in a sense. Everybody knows everybody and a lot of you talked, I talked to candidates that have family lineages lineages that go back decades in the rail industry. So it's a very good industry to stay in and And since it is so insular and everybody knows everybody, reputation is paramount. And I believe as ah as just an individual, you treat everybody the same. You treat them how you'd want to be treated. You treat them with respect. And and if you treat people that way, they ri recognize that. And even if you don't do business with them at the here and now, um it's important. And people do business with who they like.
00:15:26
Speaker
doing business with it. They like doing they do business with people that they like and trust. So forming that base level trust is really fundamental to any sort of interaction with an individual or with a client. Yeah, and I know you catalog this through your your pillars of trust or honesty, integrity and ethics. ah Really quick, i mean a big part of a recruiter's job is obviously your network. You just spend all day basically fostering, and keeping up with people, even though they may not necessarily be clients, which is the case of our relationship but past that job placement many years ago. how What methods do you and your team use to keep in touch with people, track important life details, and really continue to foster those connections even after the job is placed? No, it's very much a long arc. you know Folks we talk to, we kind of stay in contact with, whether it's through phones, whether it's emails, texts, Christmas cards, they will reach back out or send referrals. So it's always a constant touch in a long arc, if you will. um People go through changes. They have life events, they pick up and move, things happen. And so staying in touch with them, it bring builds credibility too, because you know that individual more often, or or are you know him to a greater degree, if you will.
00:16:41
Speaker
And I guess another way of putting it, it's not transactional. I guess if I was to go kind of negative in a sense that recruiters don't always have a positive reputation in the sense that they give off the vibe to the individual that they'll only talk to you if they've got a job order for you right here and now. And if you're not useful to them right here and now, it's manana. They you know they don't have time for you. and Yeah, people see through that pretty quick. think so and i think So maybe in their defense, that's the the, maybe it's more of a quick turn, sort of modus operandi that they operate their business in. But my business is much more of a higher level, longer arc to things. I keep using that term again. So when you're placing someone as a VP of sales, it's not going to be done in two hours. So it's it's longer and getting to know that person over time.
00:17:34
Speaker
helps you identify potentially really good opportunities for them. That would be a great fit, career wise, family wise, culturally, the whole enchilada, so to speak. Yeah, but your role your Rolodex, using a really antiquated term, has got to be pretty full at this point, right? But is there a system or any habits that you use to keep in touch with people? Like just, you know, practical takeaways, maybe for the listener here? Some of it just through calendars, just, you know, putting in the calendars to chat with certain people at certain points in time. Another thing we do that I didn't mention is attending industry events, rail conferences and whatnot. That's very important because meeting someone face to face is really, really helpful. um I think they say something like, you know, 75% of communication is nonverbal. So when you can sit down and have a cup of coffee with that individual or have a conversation with them at at a conference, um it builds it builds that relationship and you get to know them much, much more.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah. And the we've both been at those same conventions and I know we talk on the phone every once in a while too, but, you know, especially at a trade show, you can run into probably 50, 60, 100 people in a day. I mean, do you keep a notebook with you? You know, how do you kind of keep up with all that? Cause that's a lot of concepts. Yeah. I take copious notes because I talked to, honest, I talked to so many people. I never be able to keep everybody straight for sure. Um, so yeah, I, How do you track all those notes are the actual like, you know, try to see some practical things here that you could take away, even if you're not talking about working with a recruiter, but do you keep them all in a digital for just keep no system for candidates and individual that go with the business for all this information you can be put into
00:19:17
Speaker
And I should make mention as well, confidential. It's it's all confidential. But for me, yeah just it's a lot of the nuances. It's not so much on the resume. It's individual likes, dislikes of the individual, um things that are hobbies or interests, things that, you know, help me cue into who they are and what's what's important to them. And so when I have an opportunity from a client, I can look through my rolodex, so to speak. and go like, Oh my gosh, you know, Gary, he mentioned wanting to move up here and he's got this background and I'll reach out to to Gary and see what he has to say. And that's really a lot of it. It's a lot of it. Is that kind of a customized database you created is something you took off the shelf and converted to? your There's systems out there. I forget the acronym for Yeah, I guess CRMs customer relationship managers yeah tailored specifically to recruiters, if you will, and their niches, but it's basically the same thing. Yes, a CRM system.
00:20:12
Speaker
In one last talk I want to talk about, and this comes up thinking about recruiters and and anyone looking for a new job has become more and more prevalent over the last, I say, decade. it's and We talked about the recruiter versus online job boards, but no matter what, it's going to come down to the person. What comments do you have on the impact of social media, um as well as things like a LinkedIn profile, both from a job seeker's perspective, a hiring firm's perspective, and maybe where you have to interface between the two. Okay, let me think from the top point, I would probably say the most the most important thing or one of the most important things to say is for job seekers out there, a lot of jobs are not posted.
00:20:50
Speaker
They're put out to recruiters. So no matter how hard you look, you'll never find those opportunities. um there Can I cut in real quick and ask, like to can people just reach out to a job recruiter in their field of if they're if they're looking for an opportunity or is that what I'm talking about? How would they go about doing that? we We can go to our website. You can reach out and and send us a message on text or we're on different social medias as well as just phone calls, phone, just reach out and have and have a conversation, learn about you, what you're looking for, and exchange. Basically, the individual will learn about us and and our modus operandi and how we can possibly help them. and just it's It's like an introductory call, I guess if you would say. It's like having a cup of coffee with someone. You get to meet them, learn about them, learn about what they're thinking. A lot of times they come with questions because they don't know.
00:21:45
Speaker
Um, and you try to help and guide them as best you can. And then you just foster that relationship ongoing. If you have an opportunity, you can introduce to them at that point in time, you can go down that path. If it's something that they're aiming for that you don't have in the immediacy, uh, you maintain contact going forward and you keep them in mind and you, you know, you take notes and what they're, what's important to them. So when that opportunity comes down the line, so to speak, uh, you can make that introduction and see if something, uh, grows from.
00:22:14
Speaker
And just for listeners sake, I mean, and to be clear for them, that's not something you charge for. There's no obligation for them to go with you as a recruiter, you know, getting to understand things. That's just, they can just reach out to you and there's no, there's no obligation. Long-term commitment. so Financial costs to them and all the conversations are confidential. and We just help people the best we can, basically.
00:22:38
Speaker
Awesome. um And do you do any kind of due diligence on it? on ah So let's say you have that initial call someone shows their interest. yeah Do you wait? Do you just go and check out see if they've just posted something crazy on social media, do a little background checks or anything like that before you would put them in front of a hiring firm or for a potential opportunity? Or is that something you kind of wait and that that the onus is on the hiring firm and do it do their due diligence on somebody? The onus is so so speak on the on the hiring firm, especially if it comes down to anything like background checks or drug tests or anything of that nature. um We do look occasionally we don't generally take deep, deep dives on things in that regard. A lot of the due diligence honestly is through multiple conversations.
00:23:23
Speaker
It's a bit of an art form. you You just, you just chat with a person at different points in time. Um, and you have just ongoing conversations. And I think, I think it's tougher for someone to, uh, keep subterfuge, if you will, over an elongated time. I think, you know, um, and that's where it comes to it. Just, it's more of a comfort level. And as you chat with that individual more often, you understand more about their personality and where they would fit and really what they're, what they're aiming for. And have you placed people that maybe have had issues in their past, maybe they had some legal trouble in their past, or they got fired from a previous job, or they had a false start earlier in life or a complicated situation? um You know, have you ever had to deal with people like that who are looking for either a second chance or looking to really grow from a big setback? um I can't think of any, like criminal things off, off, off top of my mind. But in general, yeah, people reboot themselves or change different trajectories and
00:24:20
Speaker
you know, I was in sales and I want to go into engineering or whatever they wish to do or they go through life changes with divorce or kids and then they, you know, have sort of life epiphanies that they want to make changes. So yeah, I think it's just all part of the process. Everybody has a story. Everybody has a background. yeah Everybody's coming in with a perspective. So it's learning that individual, what makes them tick and what's important to them in their background and really what they're trying to achieve and try to, if I can't point them in the right direction directly, maybe segue them to someone else or point them towards information or something. I'm being kind of glib, but help them any way I can in a sense. yeah
00:24:59
Speaker
Well, so let's talk one last point there. Um, you bring up, you know, you, you so have a very certain specialty in the railroading industry, the types of jobs that you're looking to hire for the, the, the positions that people come to you with. Are there other recruiters, whether it be in our industry or other industries that you have a network with as well, that you might forward somebody on it's better suited for their, and maybe someone hires a different. different type of people in the industry. I think of firms that do more staffing or if they do like conductors or locomotive engineers or welders. and we don't really I don't have a lot of connectivity in that arena. So for someone with that background wanting to do that, I will do my best to point them towards either companies that I know are hiring for that or other recruiters that that work within that arena of the rail industry or skill sets or whatnot.
00:25:50
Speaker
that's just I think it's good for the listeners to know that hey you know maybe maybe that recruiter might not work but you I think and this is going to segue ah into the next part of our conversation but it can't hurt to ask the question right and then you might get a connection through that person to where you're really trying to go um and that's something you've always been really good at in terms of taking the stock of the of the whole industry you've got a very good grasp on kind of what's happening who's talking to you because you are at all the trade shows you are keeping such a you're keeping these connections that people throughout our industry on a regular basis, again, even many years after their original placement. So I feel you have a very good temperature and where things are within our industry. So, you know, I always use the sounding board sometimes are some of the things that I'm thinking about, because you're also trying to get information from my perspective. So I think that there's a huge value in that for anyone who might be considered. It's altruistic, you know, it's giving back to the industry. You know, if someone's young and up and coming and and
00:26:42
Speaker
They want to be a conductor and and be a locomotive engineer. I'm like, rock on. I think it's great. Now, I may not be the conduit for placing you in that role, but I will try to help you or point you in the right direction or individuals or companies that can get you into that full. And I think it's important to give back, you know, and I just think it's important. we And I think that's a reflection we receive. I wish I knew this math on it, but we receive a good amount of business from referrals. And I think when you treat people fairly and honestly, and you're looking out for their best interests, even if you can't help them, I think people understand that intent using the locomotive engineer for an example. And I just think that reverberates. It ah it helps them. It makes me feel good.
00:27:27
Speaker
and maybe they'll know someone else, they can point that I can help as well, or maybe it means a position, you know? So you just never know where it goes. It's what's at seven degrees, everybody's at separation, everybody's connected to each other. It's all a big circle. So I think what goes out comes back to you, to use the Beatles, you know, the love you give, the more love you give, or the love you give is the love you receive. I wish I could remember the exact quote, but- I'll grab the quote, and put it in the episode notes. So that's basically it, you know? It'll come back to you. I really believe that. So it's not a transactional relationship. Yeah. And well, it's but it's also a passion that comes across whenever anyone's talking to you. And every time we talk, you know, you just, you're so dedicated to the industry. And that's, why I mean, that's why you have such a great reputation.
00:28:20
Speaker
If you feel that Chris dealt with it, I'd appreciate your support of the show by sharing it with someone who might benefit. Ratings on your favorite podcast player are also helpful in growing the audience. Visit chriscroiter dot.com for free downloadable PDFs with notes and resources from today's episode, sign up for the CDWY mailing list, or to send in your problems or requests for future shows, that's C-H-R-I-S-K-R-E-U-T-E-R dot.com, or use the link in the show notes.