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India Booked | Waiting for the Dust to Settle
99 Plays4 years ago
In this episode of India Booked, host Ayushi Mona talks to Veio Pou, about his brilliant new debut novel, Waiting for the Dust to Settle, published by Speaking Tiger Books. Set in Manipur, the book is a moving novel about the human cost of the violence that the Naga. The podcast discussed what people have endured since the 1980s telling the story of Operation Bluebird—one of the darkest yet little discussed moments in the history of the Indian Army in the northeast. Above everything else, this is a deeply human portrait of an entire people the novel talks about the human cost of the violence that the Naga people have endured since the 1980s. It tells the story of Operation Bluebird—one of the darkest yet little discussed moments in the history of the Indian Army in the northeast. A moving, timely book that is surely to arrest and impress you in the way that Veio intersperses fictional narratives with the stark reality of life. Tune in!
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Transcript
Introduction to India Booked Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm your host Ayushi Mona and you're listening to India Booked, a podcast where we lean into the idea of India through its literature and we speak to authors who bring this to life.
00:00:30
Speaker
Hi everyone, I am Ayushi Mona, your host on India Booked, a podcast where we lead into the idea of India through the eyes of its literature.
Guest Introduction: Weo and Literature's Role
00:00:41
Speaker
Today, I am pleased to have with me Weopu. Weo is a professor. He teaches English at Delhi University.
00:00:50
Speaker
at Shahid Thagat Singh College. However, this is Vayo's debut novel. I put it on the book because to me, a lot of this book sort of helped me understand why I do this podcast, which is really to learn about Facebook, the country that I live in and call home, which often escape unnoticed. So first of all, Vayo, thank you so much for doing this, writing this lovely book and sharing your time with us.
00:01:20
Speaker
Thank you, Ayushi. I must appreciate your initiatives. I've listened to some of your podcasts and they are very informative. And at the same time, I mean, listeners are able to get a lot of things that many of us don't know actually. So thank you for this initiative and inviting me to come over this afternoon.
00:01:40
Speaker
Thank you so much. So were you actually the first thing that I want
Power of Fiction: Humanizing Pain
00:01:44
Speaker
to start with? Your book begins with this excerpt from Barcelona Dreamtime, which is another very important book from the Northeast. And it says that, you know, I believe that stories are powerful and they have the power to transform lives, the magic to work, peace.
00:02:02
Speaker
To me, this really set the tone for reading the book ahead because for one, you could have easily written a more academic book rather than taking a fiction angle and also because the power of stories reshape lives and to talk about lives that escape unnoticed, right?
00:02:25
Speaker
is something that I felt really came through. But I have to ask you, were you sure that you wanted to write this as fiction and not as like a non-fiction commentary solely?
00:02:40
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for that question. In fact, let me start with, you know, the epigraph which you just read out from Barcelona on Dreamtime by Istininkire. She is in fact one of the most well-known Naga writers at the moment. And this is from a very long poem which is written. And the poem is really powerful. I mean, if you read the rest of the poem, it tells you a lot about the Naga struggle and also the kind of
00:03:08
Speaker
struggle which many people groups particularly from the northeast have gone through over the last many decades and yeah like you said many I think quite a few have asked me similar questions which you have asked which is that you know a lot of things seems like
00:03:27
Speaker
in non-fiction. So there is a huge interface between facts and fiction, which is what I also intended to do. I, at certain levels, cannot tell certain stories as they are because of the hurt, because of the kind of wounds that people are still nursing. So I had to fictionalize many of these stories which I have. But
00:03:52
Speaker
Like I mentioned in my small note to the book that most of
Fictionalizing Real Events
00:03:59
Speaker
these characters, in fact, are drawn from real life persons, people who have experienced trauma and whose memories I thought should be something which cannot be just left behind. They should be carried forward for people to understand the present. I hope it made some sense to you.
00:04:21
Speaker
I was just thinking of what you said and I was wondering that by putting in a certain fictional narrative, fiction allows you
00:04:38
Speaker
the window of opportunity to work you know that whole aspect of personal magic in storytelling right otherwise you're just narrating events however critical those maybe it is honestly the humanizing of pain and struggle and trauma and conflict that really helps to you know bring that point forward in a very searing manner and and hence I absolutely
00:05:05
Speaker
resonate with what you just said. For me, from a reader's perspective, this was a very interesting book because I knew, of course, what the book was about and that came through the blurb. But I was completely unaware of Operation Rupert because for obvious reasons, big chunks of our history get removed from mainstream cognizance.
00:05:33
Speaker
there's an absolute wonder reporting of anything from the northeast which is which is a well-known fact but still continues to persist and a lot of these the specific incidents of the book which we'll come to were things not known to me and i i was born in the mid 90s and these things happened you know in the 80s and the early 90s etc however
00:05:58
Speaker
something like a khalasan movement i've heard about right you still get glimpses and shades and it gets talked about so
00:06:06
Speaker
It would say even being top of the mind for somebody who's in their 20s, much like I am.
Underreported Events: Operation Bluebird
00:06:12
Speaker
However, in incident like Operation Ruble, till I did not read your book, I had no idea something like this had even happened a month, a few episodes ago. And and it was is when I got to know that these specific series of events have happened. So what do you think of the burden right at times of introducing
00:06:34
Speaker
these historical events and very defining and critical events through your voice and through your hand as a writer because unlike a world war two or a partition of india right which hundreds of people have written about thousands of times you are writing about events right i'm sure in the next years there's not going to be another book on operation bluebird
00:06:55
Speaker
But there'll be like, but there'll be like multiple articles on a Vrsa Varkar and a Bhagat Singh, right? That's how the mainstream imagination works. When you have this sort of almost titular responsibility of shaping the narrative for something from an underreported region, is that a big burden? How do you deal with it? And I don't know if my question is complex.
00:07:19
Speaker
But essentially what I'm asking is that when you've taken on this task of writing, it's also as much a burden as a pleasured writer. Have your story told as a writer? Is that what it is for you?
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, so I think you raised some important aspects of what I was trying to intend with the book too, which is that yes, many of these narratives, I guess because of the size of India, so many things happen in different parts of the country at the same time.
00:07:55
Speaker
And when I grew up in this part of the region, which is often the periphery of the country, this 80s seems to be a very transitioning period. And a lot of things were happening. Of course, there were things that happened which were much more worse than what happened in 80s. But then again, like you said, many people have not heard about the Operation Bluebird.
00:08:19
Speaker
much also because I guess people did not want to talk about it for a long time. Even people from that part, even my people did not want to talk about it. And let me just give a kind of parallel thing that happened. Let's talk about Operation Blue Star, which happened on the other end of the country.
00:08:40
Speaker
The Delhi Rite, many people did not talk about it for a long period of time. People were silently bearing, waiting for justice of sport. And I find this quite a good peril to draw. You know, one end of the spectrum you have operation
00:08:57
Speaker
Blue Star and you have on the other side Operation Bluebird, which is something is actually, you know, kind of enforced by the same military or paramilitary, you know, of the state. And for a long time, people did not wish to talk about it because they thought that justice was coming in some way or the other. But for too long, I guess they have waited and they have waited and even given up hope.
00:09:23
Speaker
But for me, writing this was, in one way, there's a lot of risk I've taken too, because I'm talking about something which is very significant historically for people group who have experienced this trauma.
00:09:38
Speaker
And at the same time, I wanted to talk about because unless we talk about it, people will not know on one part. And unless you start talking about it, there will also be no healing to the wounds that have been scarred because of
Archiving Cultural Histories
00:09:54
Speaker
all these incidents that happened.
00:09:55
Speaker
And so for me, I wanted to kind of bring in or archive a sort of community memory through this work. I hope that even though I have fictionalized it, many of it, I suppose, like many other books would do, sometimes fictions are better history books than actual history books that we read about. So many historical events that happen
00:10:23
Speaker
And unfortunately, because of the size of a country, I guess, like I mentioned earlier, and also the kind of size of population we have, we cannot care so much to know so much about other parts of the region. For me too, until I came to Delhi, I do not know so much about much of what has happened in India, except for those that I read. And I think
00:10:46
Speaker
It is only in the post-liberalization, which is post-1990s, which your generation, I must say, should be part of, that there is an opening. Look East policy actually initiated a sense of opening up the Northeast and understanding what is happening.
00:11:04
Speaker
What are the problems that the region faces? Now, of course, we have quite a handsome amount of literature from the region and people are able to get a sense of awareness, know about the sensitivities of the thing. But still, even now, I think there is a tendency to sensationalize issues from the region.
00:11:25
Speaker
While I talk about this kind of incidents that happened, which is unfortunate to the history of that people and the period, there are also lots of, you know, mundane, let's say, daily lives that I wanted to record, you know, because many of these things would be lost. For instance, I wanted to draw a lot of how things were before communication transportation did not
00:11:53
Speaker
you know, go to this part of the land. You know, people had to go on food and, you know, all these transportations were not. And many of these current generations have forgotten that, you know, their parents used to toil this heart to, you know, do all that they did for their children. So that that's one aspect of things which I also wanted to do. And I hope that my readers will be able to understand and pick through some of these aspects.
00:12:21
Speaker
I think so too and you know I mean for right there's this for an instance right where two characters are talking and there's a mention of roasted chestnuts instead of you know they look like popcorn but how they taste very different not very little slices of life right but they make that experience of so enriching as a reader because you're getting these glimpses
00:12:47
Speaker
That's why I think it's such a nice balance to have a visualized narrative. And no doubts about it today. Everyone was unconcerned with the reason, but knows something about Afghanistan and Taliban is largely because they've ended up reading the Kaitranga or 1000's Pended Sons at some point in time. And it's not as if, you know, BBC or Times of India wasn't reporting it, right? They were.
00:13:12
Speaker
but it's honestly when stories come to close our home in the forms of people we love or in the form of relationships we all have, right? And I think not because the character is only 10 years old, right? And as a child, the impression is so strongly registered, right? Hence strengthens the book
00:13:34
Speaker
far more than then maybe older character because you're just seeing this I think quite metaphorically almost in terms of like an innocence lost for a region but also from the perspective of a character.
00:13:48
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think, I mean, you got it right. Many, I mean, some of my readers have said that, you know, your narrative is so fast. You started with a 10 year old kid and then, you know, he grew so fast, you know, as the novel moves.
00:14:05
Speaker
And I guess also one thing is that because the novel started with a childhood memory, I've been told that many children are picking up the book to read. And my 10-year-old daughter already read a few days after the book release. And many of our friends circle have actually grabbed the book to read with a sense of interest. Of course, there are lots of heavy stuff. I wonder what goes into their head when they reach through all those things.
00:14:34
Speaker
But I think different kinds of readers of any age group can connect with stories in different ways, even though sometimes we think that this may not be their type of book, but it is not for us to judge. And so as a teacher, when I also
00:14:53
Speaker
Often, you know, at one point of time, I taught children's literature. And often when we talk about children's literature, it is not the children who actually judge what should be children's literature. You know, it is often the adult who actually define those terms.
00:15:09
Speaker
And sometimes those terms become quite tricky because it actually, you know, kind of lose that sense of how people might choose certain aspects of it. So I think, you know, it's for me, a lot of things have gone in. But also I think the fast paced narrative also, I would say, is also metaphorical of the kind of transition which were very fast paced.
00:15:35
Speaker
As I grew up, I saw lots of things happening in one after the other, just like the incidents that happened. The OEDOM incident or the Operation Bluebird was quickly succeeded by the kind of factionalism that broke out between the Naga insurgent groups, which caused lots of trauma again within their own people.
00:15:56
Speaker
And then again you have lots of other ethnic conflicts and even today many of these ethnic conflicts are not yet healed and I hope to see that you know someday different ethnic groups will be able to look beyond their own small worlds and see things objectively and come together to a point of healing. That's such a wonderful you know
00:16:20
Speaker
thing and really, and I think healing is the way to really, you know, the resolution, if I may call it, right? Often we think of resolution first and healing second, but I'm so glad where you said healing because I think that really is the path to a resolution
00:16:39
Speaker
rather than the other way around, you know, especially because life, it changes so fast, right? Because in this book, again, and because, as I mentioned to you, I was completely unaware of the context till I read the book, right? When this whole attack from the Sam Rifles outpost happens and there's retaliation,
00:17:01
Speaker
And so many ordinary people get tortured and executed. Shops get ransacked, burnt down. There is so much disillusionment, right? I think the pain that comes from the disillusionment is what is so much more destabilizing.
00:17:17
Speaker
than the sort of military social things that play out and that grief is so personal. So again, thank you so much for mentioning that. Very nice about children's book, right?
Defining Children's Literature: Who Decides?
00:17:29
Speaker
And how adults often try to be arbiters of what, right?
00:17:33
Speaker
and it's so interesting because so many of these books that were initially for instance they have all these fairy tales right that we read as um to our children were actually very morbid stories for adults like the little prints which which started off for children is something that's revered almost like a philosophical book by adults now
00:17:55
Speaker
That's very much true. And I think that is where I guess the power of literature also comes in. And just to mention that, you know, because I have interest in researching, in fact, my research was also on the new writings that were emerging from the northeast of India, especially the Indian writings. I see a lot of kind of genres that have emerged from the region.
00:18:25
Speaker
And my first book, in fact, was more of an academic book, which I researched and part of it is from my PhD thesis. The first book's title is Literary Cultures of India's Notice. And when I investigate and kind of did research and read into literatures from different states of the notice, there's so much to actually
00:18:48
Speaker
inform me even though I'm from that part of the region and yet I have so much to learn from these writings that has emerged. And literature gives us that opportunity to go into worlds where we have not seen. And I'm sure by now you have interviewed lots of different people from different parts of the country. Quite interesting for you to actually penetrate those worlds through literary worlds.
00:19:12
Speaker
that's quite a thought and you know I when I was trying to research once I finished reading the book and I was trying to read up more you know I came across you know literary cultures of India's northeast right naga writings i think and I was actually going to ask you because one of the things that of course I came across was that so much of this literature of course much like the
00:19:36
Speaker
the rest of the world, again, is initially derived from oral traditions, right? Because folk songs, long narratives,
00:19:45
Speaker
elements of magic and fantasy beliefs, right? Which of course shape our identity and culture as well. What is perhaps an interesting anecdote or something that you came across while putting your thesis together and consequently the book, which is sort of registered with you as perhaps an anecdote that you like to tell at parties or something that personally held a lot of meaning for you.
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, actually, I was not quite prepared to talk about the other book. But anyway, I think when we read into literatures from the Northeast, particularly the English writings, you see a lot of post-colonial angst
00:20:33
Speaker
against even the state of India. And I think that is important to be listened to. That is where I think there is a lot of writings which are against the state. And the state need not necessarily be against India alone, but it could be against the different states where they belong because of corruption, because of all these kinds of violence that has penetrated the society.
00:20:57
Speaker
Well, at the same time, I think the other important aspect you raised is also that the region is very rich in oral tradition. Oral culture still permeates all lives in one way or the other. This reading culture has not quite caught on in one way, even to most of the people. And yes, of course,
00:21:18
Speaker
When we read many of these works, a lot of what they write are also drawn from the tradition that they go. They grew up, you know, being part of that culture. And oral culture gives that impetus of sorts to let the writers become
00:21:40
Speaker
convenient with being a storyteller. So I also, if you read into my story, you will be able to identify with the grandmother. Grandmother is the one who actually tells the story and that gives me a sort of memory of
00:21:57
Speaker
how my real grandmother was. Like many other grandmothers and patriarchs would tell stories about all these enchanted world where all sorts of things happen, you know, the magical realities.
00:22:11
Speaker
And I think we still look for that sort of magic world. I mean, I don't think that, you know, our oral tradition, whether it's the societies of the Northeast or other parts of the country, have died. They in fact have been recreated, reimagined. And perhaps that is the reason why we see more of myths, you know, selling much more than many other
00:22:36
Speaker
works literally works you know so that's something which is interesting I am sure you're reading my mind because I was just going to say that much like you know this the grandmother in the book is is such is you know she's a community keeper all of the and that whole anecdote and that piece around the Japanese soldiers I'm not getting into details but I want people to read the book and I am like very consciously
00:23:04
Speaker
turning away from spoilers and you know detailed stories but but I really think that you know I think she was my favorite
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah, I hope people also find her interesting because I think she represents a generation, at least, that, like you correctly put it, are memory keepers in a good sense. Lots of things, you know, she takes us back even into the Second World War, right, you mentioned, you know, through our stories.
00:23:38
Speaker
And those can be really fascinating. Just like we can read a book and travel back into any part of the world where it is located. Storytellers have that sense of being able to mesmerize us with their sense of storytelling and with the kind of performance they actually perform. Storytelling is not just simply reading it.
00:24:00
Speaker
like we all do to our children today. We have lost a sense of performance, I think, which we have not quite been able to retain. And yet, I think storytelling is not an easy art. It is not for anybody also. And I guess that is also something which strongly comes true, hopefully.
00:24:23
Speaker
Absolutely and you know we today live in an era where storytelling is confined to every second pitch deck by a start-up saying that oh they're doing storytelling. It's become a buzzword really but the beauty and the 8th pause and the magnitude of storytelling I think if we
00:24:42
Speaker
And I think the grandmother says it's very nice to see her in the story where she says that the people of our generation, now people, we don't care so much about stories because of this modern education and learning has taken away the kind of flexibility and histories of personal pride and stories. It's become about knowing what everyone knows
00:25:05
Speaker
and not cherishing so much of what is very unique to you, right? Which is the oral, what the oral temptation is about. Very true. I think, you know, I mean, in that sense, I'm quite excited about this conversation also, because this actually keeps on that medium of, you know, the oral, unlike kind of a written interview, which, you know, people say, you know, I'm going to interview you through email, you know, there's no sense of
00:25:32
Speaker
quite warmed of exchange. But a talk like this gives you a sense of keeping alive that ability to actually engage the reader as well as the one who is actually in conversation with you. So thank you Aushi for this.
00:25:49
Speaker
No, the pleasure is all mine and I have called initially that I'm going to ask you all these very hard questions on NSC and around the context of why the attacks happened, what happened with the legal recourse and of course you've touched on them.
00:26:10
Speaker
This conversation is, I think, very tonal of the book itself, right? Because you've picked up the O&M incident as an inflection point. It's not a... You know, it's one of the slightly lesser known inflection points as per my understanding of the Naga movement. I think you very nicely told us at the beginning that it's something that's even under-discussed or under-represented within the fabric of people who've experienced or lived
00:26:38
Speaker
these roles, right? So I am, I'm very, very glad to have this. And I think just like, you know, the whole memory keeper and storyteller, really, you know, the response and the reaction that really together creates the story, right? Because, and I think that will be a reaction, there will always be, you know, tell me one more, oh, why did this happen? And that, you know, children always question, or does just say, oh, this person has written this novel, so I'm just going to read it as is, and then I'm going to like, you know,
00:27:07
Speaker
move on with life after that. So now that I've mentioned
Legal Battles and Justice
00:27:12
Speaker
this while passing, I have to absolutely ask you about the legal piece, right? A lot of factual information you've mentioned in your author's note, right? Came from a book called The Judgment That Never Came. The Army Roll in Northeast India, which is written by Nandita and Sebastian Hongrei.
00:27:32
Speaker
And Nandita was actually the lawyer who filed for everyone who listens to the podcast, who doesn't know the context, was the lawyer who filed the original court case against these atrocities. And she was working closely with Naga People's Movement for Human Rights and other human rights organizations. Amnesty International also brought out a report
00:27:53
Speaker
which included eyewitness accounts. However, all of these are now lost and I think in last year in 2019, after three decades, after the court petitions were filed, the case was just completely dismissed for lack of evidence.
00:28:12
Speaker
It is shocking because there were 12 volumes into thousands of pages, right? Now, and I think she very in your author's note, right? You say who's responsible, right? But the loss of this 12 volume of evidence of human scale, a large scale human rights violation, right?
00:28:31
Speaker
30 villages. I mean that I think before I even started reading Bogan now as I speak of it reading from my notes I have goosebumps thinking about the fact that human rights were violated for of 30 villages in a district thousands of pages of evidence eyewitness accounts all lost after decades of court petition. It just
00:28:56
Speaker
Just heartbreak, I don't know, I don't know if it points state of just archival, it points to network of issues that run along with putting forth a case like that also, right? But how did you as an author, you know, deal with this when you heard of this theory?
00:29:15
Speaker
Well, I think it's quite shocking. I mean, that is much I can say at this point, because a lot of things are lost. I mean, you don't have the charge sheet, you don't have anything that you can label against the perpetrators of these injustices. And yet at the same time, a lot of things happen like this in the Northeast, especially when it comes to
00:29:44
Speaker
the military forces. And because of the kind of protection they have, you know, just to name clearly, AFSPA, Armed Special Forces Part X. You know, you have a lot of things that the armed forces operate
00:30:02
Speaker
with a sense of intimidating the common people particularly. And the kind of power they wield is something which is not seen in other parts of the country. And the region, in many pockets of the region, continue to be highly militarized even today, even as I speak. This is just one incident which has been brought.
00:30:26
Speaker
And we are not talking only about the kind of lives that are lost, but the kind of psychological trauma that has been left behind because of these kind of things, the kind of properties, the kind of people's attachment to many things, you know, the land is the identity for people like this, you know, who actually grew up thinking about these things, being just destroyed of their food,
00:30:51
Speaker
crops and food items is something which is very traumatic. They cannot live with those just saying that it just happened like that. And at the same time, again, when we talk about the kind of
00:31:07
Speaker
impact it has. Something which cannot obviously be recovered, even if the court were to judge, it will only take into account the kind of loss of property. It will be able to bring about the sense of complete justice in the form of delivering psychological justice, which is not quite possible. And I think we see this kind of thing continue to happen in other parts of the region too. That is why
00:31:31
Speaker
you know, the human rights movements organizations are still, you know, working on people who are affected by this kind of, you know, military actions, the impunity at which they work, not just in that part of the region where I come from, but also, let's say, in the middle part of India, where it is, you know, people refer to it as an oxalite region,
00:31:53
Speaker
or regions where many organizations are battling to struggle, to bring a sense of justice, which may not come about. But it is, I hope, with a sense of hope that something would be unveiled to some people as they read this book, that something happened like this, and then they should not be forgotten of all those
00:32:22
Speaker
Absolutely. I just was reminded again, and this is one of the lines that I've underlined from the book, right? This line which says that his mind wouldn't stop working and thinking and wondering. He felt he was living between hope and despair. Unfortunately, this date
00:32:41
Speaker
that people have had to live with, right? Swinging between hope and despair and dealing with this aftermath of trauma and to actually hear and come across, I don't know, a miscarriage of justice or denying justice or even on the basis of something like lost evidence, right?
00:33:01
Speaker
absolutely what makes one distraught. I think one question that I wanted to ask you, right, much like there's a swift movement towards migration, right, to urban centers. So a lot of the youth have moved on to like a Delhi or a Mumbai, right, increasingly for economic opportunities. How does that change the fabric of the community that has lived through this time?
00:33:31
Speaker
especially because the nature of part, the nature of stories and personal histories that get redistributed with this economic migration that we see.
00:33:43
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think this sort of migration, as you mentioned for economic reason, happened mainly with the turn of the century.
Economic Migration and Identity
00:33:53
Speaker
Earlier, most people who go outside of the state to study are for educational purposes. Let's say it is primarily because of kind of liberalization that has happened in other parts and malls are coming up, markets are opening up, and therefore,
00:34:09
Speaker
there are sprouting of opportunities which are not visible in the state. Again, you know, while we also see the opportunities outside the state, the sorry state of affair also in the states in the region, most part of the region, and especially state like Manipur and Nagaland. Is that
00:34:30
Speaker
The higher education is also pathetic. Of course, there is a way to recovery in many sense, many institutions are coming up, but still it is not at all comparable to others. And this is something which is very unfortunate that young people continues to go, flow out of the country without the intention of coming back.
00:34:53
Speaker
So there is always an outflow of capital or interest. And also, in that sense, economy is also flowing out from the state. Actually, while it should be flowing into the state. Because when children, young people go and study elsewhere, parents' money go out. So technically, the state money
00:35:16
Speaker
Economically, a poor state like Manipur is hurt so much, doubly hurt when young people move away. There is no sense of sending back that money which has been spent outside.
00:35:33
Speaker
And this continues to be a problem which I don't know if there is an immediate solution to it. But surprisingly, this pandemic
00:35:48
Speaker
has created a sort of reverse migration as seen elsewhere also. And it is most likely that many young people may not come back to these metros, except for their studies. And I see that many people are actually able to
00:36:05
Speaker
look into ways to build business on their own, which I hope will, because that will actually invest the kind of energy and also ideas in a state like Manipur, where the influx earlier was so much, so huge, even in a state like and in a capital like Delhi. Now, many pockets of Delhi have been emptied because people have gone to their home states.
00:36:34
Speaker
But again, there is also a possibility of huge underemployment or unemployment rising because job opportunities are very less and the government is not likely to be able to create jobs for people who may be talented.
00:36:54
Speaker
And along with this, which is the unfortunate thing that has happened in many parts of this region, is also the corruption that has come not just in political or theoretical corruption, but also in other forms of corruption that has come and crept into and has destroyed the fabric of the society, which I don't know, there is no clear answer, immediate answer to some of these problems.
00:37:19
Speaker
But I can just point out to the last line of which you read out, this idea of living in between hope and despair. That actually talks a lot about the current political, also the political situation of
00:37:38
Speaker
the Nagas when it comes to the conflict with India. And also because somehow or the other, the Naga problem seems to be a persistent torn in the flesh for the great nation state India.
00:37:57
Speaker
We see that because the NSEAN is also from the beginning referred to as the mother of all insurgent movements in the Northeast. The government certainly is trying so hard to arrive at a solution, but blames have always been from both sides.
00:38:14
Speaker
And it is very unfortunate that the weight keeps going on. And so I think the title of the book is one way hinged on that sense of waiting for a solution for the Naga problem. Because no one is getting any better out of waiting, out of delaying this thing. Not just the Naga people or other people groups.
00:38:39
Speaker
but also the Indian state is also not able to move forward because not just the Naga people but many people groups who are struggling to find a solution, a viable solution sort of with the Indian state is not able to find a suitable path towards coming to a
Political Struggles of the Naga People
00:39:01
Speaker
formal table where they can come to a conclusion to the kind of movement that has been in the region for a long time. And I think the Indian state rightly sees that a solution with the Nagat people is crucial for other states also to follow suit.
00:39:23
Speaker
because they still continue to wield respect and power over other sub-movements that are still in the region. Thank you, Veyo. I think this has been so enlightening, right? I mean, reading Waiting for the Dust to Settle was in itself
00:39:44
Speaker
and education and hearing this speech has really helped me understand a lot of the narrative of the political history and this very, very lucid and raw narration of real events and sufferings that people have gone through. To end
Literature Recommendations from Northeast India
00:39:58
Speaker
sort of today's conversation on a happy note, I want to ask what are some books about India in general or written by Indian authors that you would want to recommend to people listening in today?
00:40:12
Speaker
Well, I think there are lots of titles. I mean, Indian Writing and English is so huge component that we cannot really imagine the kind of things. You look at the whole of South Asia, it is mostly Indian writers who are filling up the spaces. But let me just, for the sake of this conversation, point to some writers from the region, which is the Northeast region, which we are in conversation with.
00:40:41
Speaker
I think some of my favorite writers are Mamang Dai, who is from Arunachal Pradesh. And her book, especially The Black Hill, is quite intriguing because it is a historical novel that takes us back into the 19th century
00:41:01
Speaker
and kind of things that happen in that colonial period. And of course, Pisterin Kirei is one of my favorite, even though she is a fellow Naga, but she's won awards also. But I like the way she synthesized the oral tradition into the way that we read today as fiction. So Son of the Thundercloud, I would say, is one very short book, but very enlightening and
00:41:31
Speaker
very intriguing for most people to read. And Shillong has brought out lots of writers who are making a mark in not just the region, but also in other parts. You know, there are lots of good poetry coming out from the region. Anju Masan, of course, herself, not just a fiction writer, but also a good poet. And we have a young writer like Janice Pareat,
00:41:55
Speaker
who is now a well-recognized name in the region. So, lots of writings are actually emerging from the region. Assam, in fact, has lots of other, not just translations, but also those who are originally writing in English now. That's a great list and I absolutely want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting this, so many recommendations, you know, it's wonderful. Yeah, thank you so much.
00:42:23
Speaker
Thank you so much to everyone who tuned in to listen to this episode. Please go ahead and grab a copy of Waiting for the Dust to Settle. It's not a book that will get written again in any time near or soon about a particular state of historical affairs. It has so much resonance with
00:42:48
Speaker
human suffering right but also as very nicely told us during this interview about healing and coming together and a lot of humanizing whatever we deal with as people the book is available on amazon it's available on the speaking tiger website as well as independent bookstores so make sure that you go grab a coffee
00:43:10
Speaker
and you know discovered through a very interesting about operation bluebird and all the atrocities but in a manner that you're able to experience the region for yourself just as I was able to experience it through the you know spaces of the protagonist and the family in the heavy areas of Manipur during this period. Thank you so much for doing this
00:43:38
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you so much Ayushi. It's been a pleasure for me too.