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00:00:00
00:00:01
Veronica Wong
57 Plays3 months ago
We talk about going from being a lawyer, to actress, to finance and ending up a big fish in a small pond.
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Transcript
From Corporate Law to INSEAD
00:00:01
Joe Waltman
All right, today we have Veronica Wong. Veronica, thank you so much for making the time.
00:00:06
Veronica Wong
Thank you for having me, finally.
00:00:10
Joe Waltman
All right. i First of all, please ah refresh our memory. What were you doing before INSEAD and what have you been up to for the last 20ish
00:00:20
Veronica Wong
ah Before INSEAD, I was actually a lawyer ah at a place called Davis Polk ah in New York and Hong Kong. I was transferred to Hong Kong after about eight months in New York.
00:00:33
Veronica Wong
And I was actually practicing law ah and decided to pivot and apply to INSEAD. INSEAD was the only school I applied to ah because I just needed a brick.
00:00:43
Joe Waltman
What kind of lawyer? Hmm.
00:00:46
Veronica Wong
I was a corporate securities lawyer, so I did ah debt and ah equity offering. I'm from Hong Kong originally, my mom's side of the family um actually was in shipping um out of, she was born in Macau, which at the time was considered a suburb of Hong Kong.
00:01:05
Veronica Wong
And my dad's side of the family actually had done ah business ah in in Hong Kong. And ah my, ah I guess, ancestors were the right-hand people for the trading companies.
Family Background & Acting Aspirations
00:01:18
Veronica Wong
At the time, Hong Kong was an entrepereau. ah which just means that it was like a you know port ah city. And um my um you know my grandfather or great-grandfather spoke you know different languages um and so was the right-hand person for the Jepsons.
00:01:35
Veronica Wong
And they imported Porsche and um I think Blue Girl, which is some beer, ah into Hong Kong. And my mom's side the family, actually, i eventually found out had done business in ah Hawaii in the South Pacific.
00:01:49
Veronica Wong
And we recently found out i had ah Polynesian blood. And so i think they did a little bit more than business ah when they were this side of the world.
00:02:03
Joe Waltman
That's funny.
00:02:03
Veronica Wong
ah
00:02:04
Joe Waltman
i I'm going to...
00:02:04
Veronica Wong
So, yeah, so corporate securities lawyer um in Hong Kong and um right before INSEAD, I actually ah when what's was a part-time actress, I would say, for a short period of time. um I was scouted when I was in Hong Kong ah and I auditioned for a movie and the casting director wrote my recommendation to go to Lee Strauss's book theater, which basically is where Marlon Brando,
00:02:32
Veronica Wong
Al Pacino and you know Marilyn Monroe and whoever famous um went. And ah while I was at that acting school, I met a bunch of really good friends. And um anyways, I defer INSEAD to basically go into acting.
00:02:51
Joe Waltman
Oh, wow. Oh, so you had decided to go to INSEAD. You got this, ah let's call it, you were discovered. You went to acting school for a little while. ah
00:02:59
Veronica Wong
Yeah, I deferred INSEAD for six months.
00:03:00
Joe Waltman
and I was...
00:03:01
Veronica Wong
I was supposed to go in January. And then um I, so I deferred and I was lucky enough to meet you guys.
00:03:03
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:03:10
Joe Waltman
Let's hear a little bit more about this acting school, kind of what happened there and and ah you know why did you finally or decide to you know end up going
Exploring the Film Industry and Pivot to Finance
00:03:18
Joe Waltman
going with the INSEAD thing?
00:03:18
Veronica Wong
Yeah. ah It was actually, it's a tough business. and And when I was in acting school, I wasn't really taking it seriously. i was just thinking, okay, I'll do it for six months, go to go to NSEAD.
00:03:31
Veronica Wong
um You know, I didn't want to go to Thailand, and you know, I didn't want to, you know, just hang out food and do nothing. when I decided to defer because my my stuff were actually in transit um from Hong Kong. i had ship I had like a container of things shipped back to New York um and I would have had to turn around and go to France.
00:03:51
Veronica Wong
And I just didn't feel ready. And at the time I was in touch with the casting director. or So we were kind of in conversation and she just said, why don't you go to Strasbourg? um And I had people, who i think i think Donna Summer's daughter was in my class. think There was a woman who um was in ah in a movie that ah was won the Palm, ah that was in them you know kind of was in my class. and um I just remember the first day of class. i I was a nerd. I brought all my books with me. They had a reading list.
00:04:27
Veronica Wong
No one else because the other one the other folks are like actors. Nobody was prepared. And um the acting coach was like, does anybody want to do a monologue? And and I said, OK. you know I read all the stuff. I said, I'll do a monologue.
00:04:41
Veronica Wong
And then he stopped talking after I did it. And then he goes, so um have you acted before? And I said, no. I you know i was a lawyer. And he said, have you been in like Broadway or movies or TV? And I said, no.
00:04:58
Veronica Wong
And then he stops and he goes, this is actor being dramatic, right? Acting coach. He goes, oh, you will. Of course, I never got into anything.
00:05:08
Veronica Wong
So I never did anything else after that. Yeah.
00:05:12
Joe Waltman
Well, Veronica, there's still time. There's still plenty of time. We can now.
00:05:16
Veronica Wong
ah But anyways, yeah, so that was that was right before INSEAD. um And after INSEAD, I pivoted. um I thought because of that acting experience, I was going to be working in movie studios on the business side.
00:05:32
Veronica Wong
um I actually flew to, I probably one of these people who flew the most while I was in INSEAD. um I went to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival during registration week.
00:05:43
Veronica Wong
And ah i went um I went to a wedding in Hong Kong, back in Hong Kong, while I was at INSEAD. And then i ah flew to LA and talked to a bunch of different um movie studios.
00:05:57
Veronica Wong
And I actually was an intern at the Cannes Film Festival while I was at INSEAD.
Finance Career Evolution
00:06:04
Veronica Wong
um So it was it was actually interesting, um but it's a very sleazy industry, gotta say.
00:06:04
Joe Waltman
wow
00:06:11
Veronica Wong
um i went to... interview for like a business role. And i remember this guy, and I think it was like Fox, it was Century Fox. And he said, I'm like, what are your limits? Like, what are you willing to do kind of thing? And I'm like, this is not a casting couch, dude.
00:06:31
Joe Waltman
ah here
00:06:31
Veronica Wong
I'm trying to interview for a business job. So I decided to not do that.
00:06:34
Joe Waltman
I think that's the wrong answer to that question. But go. Mm-hmm.
00:06:39
Veronica Wong
Yeah, that did not endear me to this particular executive.
00:06:42
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:06:43
Veronica Wong
So i ah that's what I thought I was going to do. So I didn't really go through the whole interviewing much ah at INSEAD. And I ended up um going to Wharton. I got into the Wharton.
00:06:58
Veronica Wong
um And that was really great because it gave me time to actually really think about what I want to do. um Prior to being a lawyer, I was management consultant. i worked with a monitor company. um And I lived in Japan before. I've lived and you know internationally and you're really trying to think what I wanted to do. So Wharton actually gave me some time and I got to make really good friends from INSEAD.
00:07:22
Veronica Wong
Wharton, whom I didn't really know. And that was really great. I went to, i think, the recruiting sessions because of the free cocktails and and ah you know, hors d'oeuvres and ended up getting recruited by Morgan Stanley and yeah getting a job from Morgan Stanley and um also, you know, with a bunch of different banks.
00:07:36
Joe Waltman
Nice. Mm-hmm.
00:07:40
Joe Waltman
nice
00:07:47
Veronica Wong
But um I got an offer with Barclays Capital. And I just thought, you know what, a lot of our friends from our year were in London. um i think you were London at the time. And I just thought, you know, if I didn't live in London, that phase of my life, I probably wouldn't.
00:08:05
Veronica Wong
ah Because, i you know, I grew up in New York and um had spent time in Hawaii actually growing up. And, um you know, I just thought, why why not? um And so I took the job with Barclays Capital, ah not really having any real finance background. I think, you Jason Hedberg and I used to joke we probably took the least finance classes of any of our classmates at INSEAD and we ended up in finance.
00:08:31
Veronica Wong
um and
00:08:32
Joe Waltman
what What was this job at Barclays?
00:08:35
Veronica Wong
So it's a it's it's the the product is convertible bonds. And people basically say being in converts, you really get to really learn about both equity and fixed income um because it's just basically um um a bond with an equity option.
00:08:54
Veronica Wong
And funny enough. ah So I was working for Barclays Capital.
00:08:57
Joe Waltman
So it's hold on little bit for, for, for the idiots like myself, that means you're you're buying a bond from a particular company and you either can get paid back or you can convert your bond into that company's equity.
00:09:09
Veronica Wong
It's a bond that could be converted, but it's not at the option of the issuer.
00:09:11
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:09:14
Joe Waltman
Gotcha.
00:09:14
Veronica Wong
It's not at the option of the buyer, of the investor.
00:09:14
Joe Waltman
Okay. Okay. Carry on. Sorry for that, for that discretion. Okay.
00:09:19
Veronica Wong
No, no, no, not not at all. But the coincidentally, um really, um ah for you know from from from not taking any finance classes, as I mentioned, it's Jason ended up working for a fund that was selling ah com convertible bonds to the investors. um and I worked for a bank um that was focusing at the time, the product that was focusing on was convertible bonds.
00:09:48
Veronica Wong
So Jason Hedberg actually come to London to ah talk about, you know, kind of his product. And um and we would we are basically, um, you know, the, the, the middleman, right?
00:10:01
Veronica Wong
So we essentially would sell convertible bonds to our clients and Jason's company, um,
00:10:02
Joe Waltman
in her
00:10:07
Veronica Wong
were was like a hedge fund that does convertible bonds. So he was kind of a client and we ended up ah having lunch together, you know, with our respective bosses.
00:10:14
Joe Waltman
fun. That's fun.
00:10:18
Veronica Wong
So that was kind of fun.
00:10:19
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:10:20
Veronica Wong
um And from there, I got recruited by Deutsche Bank to move back to New York. And um i ah it's It's kind of interesting ah from you know basically really having no experience in investments. ah I ended up ah basically working for all these finance companies since INSEAD.
00:10:44
Veronica Wong
um I got a charter financial analyst designation, which is basically a CFA, um while I was at Barclays Capital.
00:10:49
Joe Waltman
And
00:10:51
Veronica Wong
um So I got my CFA when I moved to Deutsche Bank. And that gave me a little bit more credibility in in the finance world. And I was at Deutsche for about two and a half years and
Transition to Hawaii and Bank of Hawaii
00:11:05
Veronica Wong
2008 happened. So that's the great financial crisis that everyone talks about.
00:11:11
Veronica Wong
I ah saw the writing on the wall and I think the day that Lehman blew up, Uh, if you, for those who are in finance, when, when Lehman went bankrupt, uh, you are like, what is going to happen? Um, and in finance, you get a base salary and you get a bonus.
00:11:31
Veronica Wong
And I just thought at the time, you know what, it's going to be a tough road ahead. um And I thought it might be better to be upstream. ah When I say upstream is, i my I guess my goal in life has always been like, you know, move up the food chain.
00:11:47
Veronica Wong
And so as I said, I was a lawyer previously. and then I went on to basically... being clients of lawyers, if you if you will, um at you know Barclays Capital and then ah at Deutsche Bank.
00:12:00
Veronica Wong
And then I just thought, you know what, the next kind of you know upstream position would be to work for a hedge fund. ah So I moved, I quit Deutsche the day, I think, after Lehman blew up.
00:12:08
Joe Waltman
Yeah.
00:12:13
Veronica Wong
um And they And the HR was actually surprised. Everybody was surprised that I was leaving because they're like, why would you leave? Because it looks like it's going to be a recession.
00:12:24
Veronica Wong
And, um you know, you have a job. Try and keep your job while you have the job.
00:12:27
Joe Waltman
yeah yeah
00:12:29
Veronica Wong
ah But I just thought, you know what, I wanted to kind of move on and and do something different. And... ah and And I don't know where anybody knows about um banks. If you quit, they literally would walk you out because they are afraid that you're going to take their clients, that you're going to be, um you know, essentially a competitor.
00:12:50
Veronica Wong
um I quit. And they didn't know what to do. So I was basically and still at my desk. Nobody you know did anything. And I even told them, oh, i just realized I had one phone. My work phone was my personal phone. And I said, I have a lot of personal contacts on my phone.
00:13:10
Veronica Wong
And they let me sit there and transfer all my numbers.
00:13:15
Joe Waltman
That's nice of them.
00:13:15
Veronica Wong
and And people are like, this is unheard of, because normally they just walk you out.
00:13:19
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:13:21
Veronica Wong
um Anyways, I ended up working for a place called Moon Capital, which is a hedge fund, and ah was there for you know six, seven years.
00:13:31
Veronica Wong
ah I was ah basically the um you know business a director of business development, um as well as a, um ah you know you you could call me and a client-facing portfolio manager because I really um dealt with a lot of the investors on what we're investing.
00:13:49
Joe Waltman
yeah Yeah. So business development means raising more money for the funds.
00:13:52
Veronica Wong
raising yeah so Raising capital for the funds and also doing investor relations.
00:13:58
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:13:58
Veronica Wong
Without existing investors, I would talk to them about how we invested. At the time, we had a Dubai-based manager. um so The hedge fund I worked with was an emerging markets hedge fund.
00:14:11
Veronica Wong
um you know It was global but focusing on emerging markets. and We had a Dubai-based, more long-only frontier market fund. that invest in, um you know, places like the Middle East, um you know, let yeah but most most of these frontier markets, and you know, mostly in the Middle East.
00:14:29
Veronica Wong
ah So I was ended up going to Dubai a lot. So the last two years I was at the Hedge Fund, I was flying to the Middle East ah fairly frequently, and I would stay there for a couple of weeks at a time. And I ended up ah basically building that business up ah to a sizable level that it got bought by another um ah Middle Eastern asset manager.
00:14:54
Veronica Wong
And when that happened, they asked me if I wanted to kind of help them full time. ah At this time, my sister had moved ah to Hawaii and my mom started going to Hawaii and I had visited her in Hawaii and I ended up um talking to ah the senior executives at Bank Hawaii, which is where I am now, and they
Current Role and Community Involvement
00:15:17
Veronica Wong
offered me a job. So it was like, well, should I be in the Middle East or in Hawaii?
00:15:25
Veronica Wong
ah And I ended up choosing Hawaii.
00:15:28
Joe Waltman
Seems like it seems like a good decision. And and what what were you doing then or what are you still doing now at at at at this Hawaiian bank?
00:15:31
Veronica Wong
Yeah. um So I pivoted again. um i'm um you know, I kind of, I guess I move up the chain again. ah So it's the, I'm a senior portfolio manager and I invest ah ah portfolio ah client portfolios ah for both institutional and ah high net worth.
00:15:57
Veronica Wong
clients on the and now trust department. So I'm not retail, I work with our trust department. And we um basically select managers for our clients. um So I do ah basically, ah you know, what what we call I like allocators.
00:16:13
Veronica Wong
So I'm an investor, I allocate capital ah for my clients.
00:16:18
Joe Waltman
And when you say you select managers, so you're selecting like individual wealth managers to manage this?
00:16:22
Veronica Wong
No, no.
00:16:22
Joe Waltman
Okay.
00:16:23
Veronica Wong
So I select like ah fund managers.
00:16:25
Joe Waltman
okay
00:16:26
Veronica Wong
And if you invest in clients, you want, you know, invest for your clients, you basically want to diversify portfolio, you want to have some stocks, you want to bonds, um you want to be diversified in terms of the style, you want to be, you know, some growth, some value, ah you want to be in US international.
00:16:43
Veronica Wong
um So I picked the basically the best in class in those asset classes.
00:16:49
Joe Waltman
I see. So I'm, and again, excuse my ignorance here. I'm i'm familiar with the with the term wealth manager, where if you're a high net worth individual, you have somebody at a bank who, who i you know, does what you just described.
00:17:03
Joe Waltman
Is is this what you're doing or is or what you're doing a little different?
00:17:05
Veronica Wong
It's similar, but um because we also have the institutional side of the business, so that's also like, I also invest for pension funds, for example, endowments, um you know, kind of, yes.
00:17:14
Joe Waltman
Okay. Okay. Okay. Help them diversify their, their, you know treasury or whatever it is.
00:17:18
Veronica Wong
um So I invest and invest both.
00:17:19
Joe Waltman
I
00:17:20
Veronica Wong
And then for, you know, some of our more sophisticated clients, I invest in alternatives because of my hedge fund background. um I invest in, you know, um alternative strategies, you know, things like
00:17:28
Joe Waltman
see.
00:17:33
Veronica Wong
Global macro, market neutral, um that kind of thing. And also when i
00:17:38
Joe Waltman
On behalf of the clients of this Hawaiian bank.
00:17:41
Veronica Wong
Yes, on behalf of the clients of the Hawaiian Bank. So I pick what they invest in um basically would be the short short answer.
00:17:46
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:17:49
Veronica Wong
And when I first moved to Hawaii, i um because I had invested in a number of startups as angels and and um as an angel investor, including a couple of ah startups from our classmates, ah as well as even before then, um Before I even started in in at INSEAD, invested you know family money on some um private ah investments. And I became a mentor at a an accelerator here in Hawaii called Blue Startups.
00:18:21
Veronica Wong
So i I was a mentor for for you know a short period of time ah for them.
00:18:28
Joe Waltman
Oh, interesting. ah
00:18:29
Veronica Wong
Yeah.
00:18:30
Joe Waltman
yeah Now, are we all caught up to where you are today or or have you since left the Hawaiian Bank?
00:18:36
Veronica Wong
No, I'm still here. I'm i'm still at the bank.
00:18:38
Joe Waltman
Oh, wow.
00:18:39
Veronica Wong
ah And ah Hawaii actually has offered me some opportunities in terms of just giving back. um So i'm I volunteer a bunch of different nonprofits.
00:18:50
Veronica Wong
ah And because of my investment background, I'm on their finance committee or investment committee ah for a couple of nonprofits here.
00:19:00
Veronica Wong
And I'm on the... um investment committee, for example, where Hawaii Opera Theater for ah something called the Augustine Educational Foundation that provides scholarships um for students to go to ah Catholic schools.
00:19:14
Veronica Wong
um And so for the Hawaii Opera Theater, I'm on the board and I'm also chair of the investment committee. And um I'm also um on the board of the Charter Financial Analyst Hawaii chapter.
00:19:26
Veronica Wong
I'm currently the vice president. um Elections are coming up like in a week or two and you know i'm not the The ballots are not stuffed or anything, but I'll be the next president for Siappe Hawaii.
00:19:42
Veronica Wong
ah and
00:19:42
Joe Waltman
of this. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. We making news right now. How exciting. How exciting.
00:19:47
Veronica Wong
And then i ah I'm also involved with my college alumni association on the board. um And I was on the kind of global board until last year. That required me flying back to ah Boston you know about three times a year.
00:20:04
Joe Waltman
How long have you been in Hawaii for now?
00:20:07
Veronica Wong
ah Oh, I'm in my eighth year.
00:20:11
Joe Waltman
Oh, wow. That's probably the longest you've spent almost anywhere, at least since then, right?
00:20:13
Veronica Wong
Anywhere. i know.
00:20:15
Joe Waltman
So so so what what does the future hold for Veronica?
00:20:16
Veronica Wong
I'm very perpetratic.
00:20:17
Joe Waltman
Is is is Hawaii you know where you're going to be where you're you're going to stay or are you you know still willing to hop on a plane and move somewhere else if the ah if if the number's right?
00:20:26
Veronica Wong
We still keep a place in New York. um I still have my apartment in New York.
00:20:29
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:20:31
Veronica Wong
So I actually do see a lot of INSEAD folks. I think Rahul Sharma is the mayor of ah the New York.
00:20:39
Joe Waltman
He's a social chair. He's the social chair of New York. yeah
00:20:43
Veronica Wong
And so every time I go back, I just basically get in touch with him and he can get in touch with everyone else.
00:20:48
Joe Waltman
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but you didn't really answer my question. So are you staying in Hawaii or do you not know?
00:20:55
Veronica Wong
Well, I never really have much of a plan, Joe, I have to say.
00:20:59
Joe Waltman
Yeah. That's the sense I'm getting. That's the sense I'm getting from.
00:21:03
Veronica Wong
i listen to some of the podcasts and it seems like, you know, there are others in the same shoe as me
Reflections and Personal Insights
00:21:09
Veronica Wong
who don't really have much of a plan either and just kind of end up.
00:21:09
Joe Waltman
ah
00:21:12
Joe Waltman
Unserious people? is is that Is that what you're trying to say? There's other unserious? Yeah, maybe. Maybe.
00:21:17
Veronica Wong
i I don't know, I've become serious because you know I'm ah um now a respectable portfolio manager and Hawaii is a small town. ah
00:21:27
Joe Waltman
Big fish in a small pond syndrome? you you you think You think you're serious? and Yeah.
00:21:31
Veronica Wong
So now now i have to be serious, can't go out drinking like I used to.
00:21:32
Joe Waltman
ah All right. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I find that. Something tells me you still... do that every once in a while. ah
00:21:40
Veronica Wong
Well, champagne champagne is my is my ah is my drink.
00:21:41
Joe Waltman
but
00:21:45
Joe Waltman
ah Okay. we i I try to end these conversations with with a kind of a two-part question. I'm not sure it's a good question or not. If it's dumb, just tell me. i don' i don't know and we can move on.
00:21:57
Joe Waltman
But um is there is there anything that that um you might be able to offer to to you know the other people in ourmo and in in our in our class, our promotion, whatever we call it? And is anything that you're able to, you might need from from the rest of us?
00:22:11
Veronica Wong
um In terms of what I can offer to folks on promotion, i guess you know anybody who wants to talk about any part of what I have done that I can help with, I'm perfectly happy to do that.
00:22:25
Veronica Wong
um I still look for kind of periodically. I don't have as much time um you know in terms of managing the business. you know, my my own family um assets.
00:22:36
Veronica Wong
But, you know, any good ideas that come up, I'm still invested. A couple of, ah I guess, investments didn't really work out, but um I still have one that is, I think, so still alive.
00:22:48
Joe Waltman
Which ones? Let's name and shame some people.
00:22:51
Veronica Wong
but No, I'm not going to shame people. Yeah.
00:22:53
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:22:54
Veronica Wong
um But, um the you know, I still have one with with a classmate. So, you know, any good ideas, I'm, i'm you know, open to to listening. um And, ah you know, anything that I can help with.
00:23:04
Joe Waltman
Mm-hmm.
00:23:06
Veronica Wong
I think ah a lot of you guys know when we took that OB b class, I think somebody actually said, you know, I'm kind of a little bit... not that, you know, now that live in Hawaii, ah you know, I'm a little bit like a nexus, so I can connect you to other folks if needed.
00:23:23
Veronica Wong
um And then on what can the school do for me? ah What can INSEAD do for me? I mean, I think it has done a lot already. I felt like I made a lot of good friends from INSEAD.
00:23:37
Veronica Wong
um And, you know, every time i go back for reunions or other cities and see you guys, it gives me a, a warm little little feeling in my heart. If I can think of anything else for you guys to to help me with, I'll i'll let you know.
00:23:48
Joe Waltman
That's lovely.
00:23:51
Joe Waltman
Well, maybe maybe maybe ah a lead role in ah in ah in a in a major motion picture is is what is what yourre is what you're lacking, right?
00:23:58
Veronica Wong
I don't know. i don't i don't think I have the skill set anymore. i i think I'm pretty rusty at the moment.
00:24:06
Joe Waltman
Veronica, thank you so, so much. It was great to finally ah do this and and hear what you've been up to.
00:24:10
Veronica Wong
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
00:24:13
Joe Waltman
right
00:24:14
Veronica Wong
Bye.