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How do we want to be human in the 21st century? Introducing Techno Spiritual Crossings with Peter Wolff, Karthik Iyengar, and Emily Manthei
46 Plays2 months ago
Why are we creating a podcast? In this introductory episode, leadership coach and author Peter Wolff is joined by tech entrepreneur Karthik Iyengar and filmmaker Emily Manthei, who co-produce the podcast with him, to talk about ancient wisdom, the challenges and promise of a changing future, and why we’re all here. From different perspectives and spiritual backgrounds, we’ve come together to look for meaning and growth through the themes of the podcast: hope, action, and belonging.
Themes in this episode:
- future of technology
- what is spirituality
- identity and belonging
- evolutionary change
- democracy + climate crisis
- community + transformation
Shownotes:
- Peter Wolff - coach, educator, author: https://www.peterwolff.com/
- Karthik Iyengar - software engineer and entrepreneur, yogi, music lover: https://kiyengar.net/
- Emily Manthei - stories with a visual-philosophical outlook: https://www.emilymanthei.com/
- The Sickness Unto Death - a human being is spirit: https://sorenkierkegaard.org/sickness-unto-death.html
- Vocalize - making every voice count: https://medium.com/@PeterWolffSF/making-every-voice-count-24e33334363f
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Transcript
Adapting to Technological Change
00:00:12
Speaker
How can we approach the rapid pace of technological change and adapt to it in healthy ways? Humans often resist change. And feeling ready to grow and evolve isn't easy.
00:00:24
Speaker
Many might consider the idea that humanity will rise to the challenges of the future as too optimistic.
Introduction to Peter Wolf
00:00:33
Speaker
At Techno Spiritual Crossings, however, we want to talk to people who help us see the possibilities for doing things differently.
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm your host, Peter Wolf, a traveler, writer, and coach. In 2017, I moved from my hometown of San Francisco, where I worked in tech, to Berlin.
00:00:53
Speaker
The slower pace of life in Berlin gave me time to think more about what makes us human.
Peter’s Work and Perspectives
00:00:58
Speaker
I used that time to start writing a book about my ancestors. It's a personal meditation on grief and trauma.
00:01:06
Speaker
I also carried my professional activities with me from California, facilitating systems change and coaching leaders on their path of personal growth. I had many conversations and participated in transformational processes for individuals and society to make a positive impact.
00:01:23
Speaker
I asked friends to join me on the journey, to offer perspectives that illuminate and encourage personal growth and its influence on societal change.
Meet the Team
00:01:33
Speaker
So let me introduce my teammates.
00:01:36
Speaker
Emily Montai is a writer, journalist, and filmmaker from California who I met here in Berlin. We have connected over creative projects and now this podcast.
00:01:46
Speaker
Hi, Peter. Hi. Karthik Iyengar, who I also met in Berlin, is a tech entrepreneur and software engineer who I connected with over our shared love of philosophy, music, and tech.
00:01:59
Speaker
Hey, what's up? So, why another podcast? Yes. We're all responsible for making the world we live in. We want our listeners to feel empowered by hearing from our guests and realize that we all have more influence than we think.
00:02:16
Speaker
We want to find ways to be co-creators in the world around us.
Techno-Spiritual Crossings
00:02:25
Speaker
And why techno-spiritual crossings? What's the techno in techno spiritual crossings, Peter?
00:02:35
Speaker
Well, if you came to this podcast because you're expecting podcast on techno music, I'm sorry, you'll be disappointed. Three of us, however, are all fans of jazz.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:51
Speaker
So technology, the tech refers to technology. And I guess I didn't say so much about this before, but yeah, i worked as an engineer and I worked in creating new technologies. I worked in innovation management. So it's like in the way of thinking and the mindset that we can create a better future by inventing the next best thing.
00:03:14
Speaker
The rapid pace of technological change is what I think about in terms of the techno and techno spiritual. I think, Peter, you have definitely changed my, let's let's say, techno-pessimism.
00:03:30
Speaker
Because my interactions with technology are usually just like, you know, tech bros who think they're philosophers trying to take over the world. Leaving a lot of people behind by not thinking about the...
00:03:44
Speaker
consequences of their innovations. And I think ah through doing this podcast and also our conversations, I've come to kind of realize that we can shape the future through sort technology and we have an opportunity. It's not just, you know, a scary dystopian future.
Technology’s Societal Influences
00:04:07
Speaker
Many shots fired there. LAUGHTER
00:04:13
Speaker
Thanks, Emily. But yeah, so I've been a tech bro since I was a kid, I guess. I got my first computer when I was in the fourth grade. So I've always been like obsessed with technology and computers and so on.
00:04:26
Speaker
And also having created a lot of the software that we use on a day-to-day basis and also having worked in like three different regulatory and technical landscapes.
00:04:37
Speaker
I mean, as a creator, it's very important to reason about... um as Emily also mentioned, how what you create is going to shape how people are going to use it, especially when it comes to things like things like social media or data privacy and so on and such.
00:04:54
Speaker
But now it's very narrow to think about technology from the lens of the software that we use or essentially and the things that we use on a day-to-day basis. and Technology has always been a core component of how humans have been interacting with the world, right? like Right now, we think that the world is at risk because of, I don't know, AI or like advancement in social media and tracking technology and so on.
00:05:18
Speaker
But we also have to keep in mind that the world was always at some sort of risk ever since the industrial revolution from technology. be it the cold war or be at but it, be it, be it anything else. Right.
00:05:30
Speaker
Um, so yeah, so the, the podcast essentially is trying to be like a document in time cataloging our experience with technology and how the world is being influenced right now as it stands.
Human-Technology Relationship
00:05:43
Speaker
And also essentially it allows us to reconcile with how we want to engage with technology in a responsible manner and use it to create positive change. We're definitely having conversations in which we acknowledge that that we are living with the technology and the advancements in technology. And and as you say, just as we always have been, it's just that we're now at a new frontier.
00:06:08
Speaker
um And we're not advocating or thinking about necessarily removing ourselves from from everything that we've developed and and embedded ourselves in with technology.
00:06:22
Speaker
I mean, why not? We could just all become Amish. there are That would solve all your problems. Yeah. I think probably a lot of people think the solution is going off the grid. And i just maybe it's just helpful to say like where we're engaging in this conversation is that it's a part of us and we're a part of this change.
00:06:43
Speaker
So how can we best navigate it? And that's why we're having conversations with our guests about it.
Spirituality vs Religion
00:06:51
Speaker
So what about the spiritual and techno spiritual?
00:06:56
Speaker
Do you have something quippy to say about that Peter?
00:07:02
Speaker
No, do I think maybe a way to begin that is just by What do we mean by spiritual? It's this kind of squishy term.
00:07:18
Speaker
I think a lot of times people contrast it with being religious. Like religion is all about formula, institution, holy books, that kind of stuff. Whereas people think of spirituality as kind of like new age, grab baggy.
00:07:34
Speaker
um what So what do you guys think? Oh, it's clearly about astrology, right? Isn't that what? No? Oh, okay.
00:07:45
Speaker
I can remember filling out surveys. i don't know what's your religious affiliation and maybe one of the options on there. is I'm spiritual, not religious. And it offers kind of like a contrast because it's a belief in a higher power or that there's more going on than we can see. Um, there's, there is a mystery around more than kind of what we experience on and and an, on an everyday Um,
00:08:14
Speaker
am If I want to put it succinctly, i would say that it's not knowing, but being willing to discover. Because when you think about religion, for instance, it can tell you how to be and what to do.
00:08:30
Speaker
might When people say they're spiritual, they're saying that I don't know, but I want to find out. And people could have different ways of finding out.
00:08:42
Speaker
And it's essentially
00:08:45
Speaker
Asking the hard questions, knowing who you are, how you fit into the world and how can you see yourself in others? And those are the sorts of questions that I generally see spiritual people trying to see answers to.
Spiritual Connections and Community
00:09:03
Speaker
Hmm. I had this crazy thought that even in the context of a church, that the that the priest is spiritual and the congregation is religious.
00:09:19
Speaker
ah ah Just as a thought exercise, because you know the the priest or the rabbi or whoever is ah holding or conducting the ceremony... I would say kind of lives in the space to be curious and inspired for what you know what can flow through in order to give the people in my congregation an experience of the divine and its power um I remember going to a church of religious science in Oakland California
00:09:56
Speaker
And in this kind of context of a modern American religion, it's not full of the ritual and ceremony in the way that... Smells and bells. Smells and bells, yeah. um You know, we're sited seated in an auditorium and a woman comes up to the front of the and on the stage and tells us a story.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I remember at the end of the sermon being so inspired And in a way, it was by the way that she told the story.
00:10:32
Speaker
um And it was one of those moments that I said, I want to be a preacher. I want to be able to tell a story that's so inspirational to help people, lift people up.
00:10:45
Speaker
So that was kind of a ah sidebar in terms of like what the but the minister is is trying to do. So like I really see the minister as ah relating to the spiritual part of of the mystery itself.
00:11:03
Speaker
I kind of see in what both of you have said ah that a part of being spiritual is seeing connections, the connection between self and others, between um something greater than yourself, being a part of something bigger than yourself.
00:11:24
Speaker
um That is kind of the ah Spirituality is the facilitation or the the inter interaction, the interrelation.
00:11:36
Speaker
um at At the beginning of ah Sickness Unto Death um by Søren Kierkegaard, the first sentence is about this, like what is spirit?
00:11:48
Speaker
And he defines spirit as the relation between ah self and itself. And it's not the self or itself, it's the relation itself.
00:11:58
Speaker
that is the spirit, um that there's some there's some in-between mechanism, that that is that's what spirituality is.
00:12:12
Speaker
Just want to take a step back and ask a meta question, which is not in the list. Why do you think we as humans, why are we exploring these topics in such great depth?
00:12:23
Speaker
Like why are we obsessed with this notion of religion or spirituality or something bigger than us? We all want to know why we're here, what we're doing here in life, what we're doing other than just like working a job and, you know, buying coffee at Starbucks.
00:12:43
Speaker
And if you think back a few hundred years ago when we didn't have such luxuries, life life was pretty damn hard, one can imagine. And religion and church provided that refuge.
00:12:58
Speaker
walking into a huge church that feels safe and is full of warm people and there's somebody there giving an explanation and creating order out of chaos in a way through the teachings of of the church I can really see that this is a this is why we have given like credence to to religion because it's it's a big force in the history of the world that has given us peace and uh and a sense of salvation know amongst all the suffering that we that we have to go through it is all there healing connection uh
00:13:46
Speaker
responsibility to self and others. All of that is part of this, uh, the, the community, around religions.
00:13:56
Speaker
And that's like, it's, it's all these essential things that we need as humans. We've found through religion.
00:14:06
Speaker
Helping us answer the big questions. Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? Um, It seems like that's what you were kind of pointing towards, Karthik.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's also like when I when i look at a how India is organized, for instance, it's also like community in India is built around temples. They're like real centers of community, no different from what a church would be.
00:14:36
Speaker
So I think this aspect of... essentially being a central point where people can converge to discuss ideas and feel will feel belonging is very cool aspect of why people are seeking. They want to belong.
00:14:52
Speaker
They want to be part of a group. They don't want to be excluded. and They want their life to make sense. And I think that's why we want to explore our spirituality as a connection to technology as we're changing the way that we interact with the world and continuing to ask ourselves the question, why are we here?
Technology and Spirituality
00:15:16
Speaker
And how are we here? And as we figure out more about the world and as things change around us, how does that change us? Yeah. Does the presence of technology dilute these age old questions that we've been asking us or are they still relevant in this day and age?
00:15:35
Speaker
And are we losing the essence of ah sense of this journey that we're all on in terms of finding who
Reflective Questions in Workshops
00:15:42
Speaker
we are? Are we trying to solve these problems with technology? And is that the right tool to solve those problems?
00:15:49
Speaker
I think we should ask chat GPT question. Who are you right now? and see what we get. So Peter, where where did you come up with this who are you right now question? It's a question that we'll be referring to later on in the show.
00:16:09
Speaker
I was participating in ah in a weekend workshop with a lot of change makers and we were exploring, you know, we're exploring the future of how we might organize ourselves, um given that we're facing a lot of different crises, environmental, and in addition to just a social crisis, like it's unsustainable.
00:16:31
Speaker
It seems unsustainable for us to keep living in the ways that we that we do, moving to cities and struggling to pay higher and higher rent and and buying food that isn't as nutritious as we want, all these kinds of things. So we're kind of like bringing that into the and into a problem space and going through a creative process to envision what it might be like.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so we were a lot of, we're very enthusiastic change makers exploring these questions and topics. um But what happened in the first day is that there was a breakdown, like almost mutiny. Like people were saying, no, we um we don't like the way this is going.
00:17:13
Speaker
And so all the best intentions ground to a halt because we were in conflict.
00:17:24
Speaker
I would had this moment of inspiration as I heard people kind of arguing and vying for control of how we were going to do things next. And I said, I don't want to agree with anybody about the way we go next until I hear from everybody about what they're feeling in this moment.
00:17:45
Speaker
And we ran went around the circle and those people that had said nothing had their voices heard.
00:17:56
Speaker
which you may say, okay, that's nice, thank you, that's very polite of you, but actually what happened was it reset the entire circle so that we could all listen to each other and respect each other.
00:18:07
Speaker
And that taught me that having all the voices in creates um creates a regulation, creates stability, because it's bringing us into the into the present moment.
00:18:21
Speaker
Oh, now I see you, now I hear you. And um I wanted to recreate that as much as I could, and I created this project called Vocalize. And I was exploring ways, um both in facilitating workshops,
00:18:36
Speaker
um Yeah, mainly in facilitating workshops because my my intention was to capture the presence of group experience. So after going through like a two-hour session, asking the question, who are you right now?
00:18:50
Speaker
Gives every participant a moment to stop and reflect, even if it's for 30 seconds to write something down. This is who I am right now. And lo and behold, when you know I assembled all these these lines,
00:19:04
Speaker
Together I created a poem and this poem um which I made into verses was a beautiful reflection of who this group was in that moment.
00:19:18
Speaker
And i i wouldn't necessarily have taken it any further but the response from people hearing that reflection back was so positive that I said going to keep doing this. And so when and we began recording these podcasts, I said, well, this is a question that I want to and want to bring in as well to these conversations.
00:19:42
Speaker
I love it because it kind of reflects the beginning of a conversation, but maybe at the end of the conversation, the The guest and the host are different people right now because you you start as two separate people who have just come together in this moment and then at the end of the conversation you you've harmonized a bit.
00:20:10
Speaker
I'm particularly like this question mainly because it short circuits all the preparation that you had in the conditioning that you had in your brain and the story that you spun up for yourself and your brain. And it brings you and challenges you to come back to where we are right now.
Podcast’s Foundational Values
00:20:29
Speaker
yeah And then it forces you to not respond from that preconceived place in your brain. It forces you to respond from now. From an embodiment.
00:20:42
Speaker
That sets the stage for how future conversations evolve.
00:20:58
Speaker
Before we ever release an episode, we wanted to clarify for each other and listeners why a podcast would matter. And three words, hope, action and belonging.
00:21:11
Speaker
We agree that these best described our intentions, why it was worth doing this. And the podcast is a way for us to discuss how we want to be human in the 21st century.
00:21:22
Speaker
And we're doing it by talking to people committed to personal change and social evolution. So please join us by listening to our first episode, which follows.
00:21:36
Speaker
Today's podcast was produced and edited by Emily Monti, Karthik Iyengar, and me, Peter Wolfe. Original music by Heston Mims. This has been Techno Spiritual Crossings.
00:21:47
Speaker
Thank you for listening.