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C3 Episode 82 Reviewed Seven
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Transcript
Introduction to Eberron Renewed Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to Eberron Renewed. It's a role playing game podcast set in Eberron. I'm Jeff. I'm Mia. I'm Phillip.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I'm Eric. And it is another reviewed episode as promised a week ago. Here it is now. So as I mentioned, I believe on the last reviewed, we are foregoing the recaps from this point forward.
Designing Complex Fights
00:00:27
Speaker
um But I do want to talk about the fight that destroyed us. Almost literally.
00:00:39
Speaker
It's true. We joked a lot about we took almost a month off of recording for various reasons. An extra month. We typically record once a month, batch record, but we took an extra month off of recording for various reasons.
00:00:51
Speaker
And in that time, Eric concocted a fight that um threatened to destroy us. So without... I mean, I'm sorry to give you a very broad question, Eric, but what was up with that fight?
00:01:05
Speaker
It's just, it's... It's one of those things where when you have too long to sit around and think about what would make a cool encounter and then, but you don't have enough time to go back and edit all the cool ideas that you added to the board and think, oh, this might be a bit much.
The Misunderstood Scroll
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, just things escalated. If I recall correctly, the dice were not in your favor.
00:01:27
Speaker
And also a lot. ah So here's the deal. And this was this was difficult for me as a game master. Bear keeps switching tracks of which way he's going to defend himself. No, I own up to the fact that a lot of the mechanics were really crazy.
00:01:40
Speaker
You see, it's society. But the the core thing that that has been in existence since I built out this arc is how to stop the fight.
00:01:52
Speaker
Like how to turn off any of the party members that get flipped over to the other side, how to stop the fiends from transporting in. And all of it was read the scroll and you all refused to read the scroll.
00:02:06
Speaker
And so that just kind of created a situation where I was just like, To prepare, the investigator was not given any chance to read the scroll because everyone pointed to the wizard like atdy instead of Valk.
00:02:21
Speaker
All we knew about the scroll as that it was driving someone crazy.
Game Dynamics and Mechanics
00:02:27
Speaker
And if holding the scroll was driving someone crazy, why would we think, let's open it and read it because surely that will make things better?
00:02:39
Speaker
I'm just saying. i' All I'm trying to say is I thought about changing the that mechanic of the fight because of the actions of the players. When we made it clear a month earlier that we were absolutely scared of reading the scroll. But that's the thing. I was like, well we need a lead-sealed scroll case. to You are right. like this that is yeah i mean you That would not have been right to have changed it. you are That is certainly... Well, and here's the... and this is it this is This is me in the mind of my NPCs and like fully acknowledging you all have agency and like your perspectives through your characters.
NPC Perceptions vs. Player Actions
00:03:19
Speaker
But like I was honestly shocked. by how the Madonna investigator was treated, especially when she was like, yeah, i've been doing this for 12 years. Like, like she, in my head, she's read magic scrolls before, like the, the lax days, the nature of the wit of her opening it was my attempt as a DM to show experience. And it came across as recklessness. I understand that, but that, that was the major disconnect is 10 years of houses, bad Eric, 10 years of houses, bad.
00:03:49
Speaker
House is bad. House agents not all bad, though, Philip. There have been good house agents. I'm not going to say what I want to say about apples and barrels. But reverse, I guess. One bad barrel will absolutely spoil all apples.
00:04:04
Speaker
But... It is true that the two adult members of our party do not lead with kindness. Valk doesn't lead with unkindness. Valk just confuses most of them. Yeah, no. Valk just Valks around and makes him do it.
00:04:21
Speaker
I just wanted, so there was two things. Number one, there was the let's completely ignore the investigator who's been trying to investigate portion and just escalate on our own.
00:04:34
Speaker
And then I did attempt to be like, well, maybe we should not open it after there was just an incident and and try to go somewhere else.
Significance of the Scroll in the Plot
00:04:42
Speaker
But then we ran out time. So I just want to make it clear. It's not a we.
00:04:47
Speaker
so It was never a week. My priority was always the scroll, even in battle, until I died. It's definitely a, like, we needed to open it, but we needed to open it, like, in a blast-proof containment zone.
00:05:03
Speaker
We just needed to go one room over away from you. That was it. And also, we have been told by our bosses, we're supposed to get credit.
00:05:15
Speaker
And... The second we lose custody of that scroll, we are not showing up in any newspaper. We're not showing up in any report about how this guy of how, how the Madonna agent managed to undo to solve the crisis.
00:05:32
Speaker
We are nowhere in there. The second we lose custody of this thing. So we're supposed to get credit. We cannot get credit if this guy gets a hold. If a house agent gets a hold of our key piece of evidence that they missed.
00:05:48
Speaker
They already screwed this up. They're obviously incompetent. it technically, we didn't miss it. It was the random force party guy who we never She was pretty obvious, had pretty obviously taken charge. If she'd gotten, if she got to take over the front room of City Hall, she's obviously taken charge of this. That was after so got arrested.
00:06:12
Speaker
so there was we found Because the guy didn't search him. it's true the guy didn't search him all And
Integrating Eberron Lore into the Campaign
00:06:20
Speaker
neither did the investigator. That is kind of the core reason why the fight with pear-shaped is because it was like a lot of these conditions could be turned off.
00:06:29
Speaker
But the off switch was in the dark. The person with the mark of detection didn't detect the scroll. Fun in fact, not all house agents have the mark of the house, Philip. Sometimes they just need their skills and wits.
00:06:45
Speaker
And how's that going for Didn't turn out well, did it? Rape for 12 years. No. House is bad. So it's, it's really interesting from a narrative standpoint, and this may be pulling the curtain back a bit too far, but I go through Eberron lore and I find NPCs within the lore that in the current modern day Eberron are dealing with extra planar threats.
00:07:08
Speaker
And I roll them back thinking, oh, they'll get in good with the party and become interested in this. And that could be the justification. And now I'm having to figure out, is it in spite of these other people? Like... Gonna start a counter group?
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, because this Midani agent is in Ebron Moore. They keep it extra player threats from getting out of the Mournland. Like, they they, like, work investigating the board of the Mournland to keep it safe. So, yeah. Like, their whole Riz on Dej up to this point is, we can't let these people be the sole people protecting us from extra player threats. That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:07:46
Speaker
These jacks are going to ruin it for all of us if I don't stay on this track. i I do feel like Kaz spends a decent amount of the first... Within the first couple of hours of us coming into a town, Kaz spends a decent amount of his time with his arms outstretched between
Balancing Game Mechanics for Future Encounters
00:08:05
Speaker
the rest of the party and whoever we're supposed to be working with going... No, it's okay. No, okay.
00:08:10
Speaker
No, hang on. No, it's okay. No, we're going to... but it's fun. It's all fun. Nick's doesn't like institutions. it's a Kaz doesn't want to get institutionalized.
00:08:25
Speaker
I think the Valkit's just been released from an institution. Covering all of our bases. So yeah, the the fight... Also, I think from a balance standpoint, I should have all of the, like, ally abilities.
00:08:37
Speaker
I should have those be quick actions that you can do in addition to your your regular stuff on your turn. I think having it be an either-or decision made the fight imbalanced away from you all. So that's the big thing that I would go back and change.
00:08:50
Speaker
But... you i mean And you gave some really fun things we could have done. Like I used the... help townsperson thing. Cause I don't other, I don't have other choices for quick action. Like that's not the way my character or my class is built.
00:09:06
Speaker
And so like, I was able to do a little something every time because of that. Like I don't have to ready things or hold my focus or what, prepare my focus, whatever it is that Val does with what's their quick actions. no either man Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
But I will say this as, as, as a player in that I, With the exception of one time at GamerNationCon, I got to sit in at a table where the theme of the game of the one-shot was, can you avoid this TPK? I'm going to throw at you. Like, basically.
00:09:37
Speaker
I have never really felt, well, and besides the obvious but that I won't mention because it's a spoiler, Yeah. This is the first I've been like, we're not going win this and we have to go. Every fight I've ever been in on on a table in a tabletop game has been like, we'll figure this out. We got this. We
Narrative Loss and Game Mechanics
00:09:54
Speaker
only dropped once. if This guy only dropped once. We can get back up. We can keep fighting because we have had some close calls before, but always been like, no, we still got this. This one is when was like, we must...
00:10:03
Speaker
run and i I Eric I didn't like it sorry I didn't like it I think it was good for our group to get an elk Narratively, um, since we are still compared to any other party I've ever been in new to each other, even though we've been playing for like almost two years now, we've only been a while.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah. In, in fiction has been a handful of months and only a handful of, uh, inside of that only a handful of missions. So think narratively it was good for us to get an L to see how each character deals with that.
00:10:41
Speaker
But man, it was hard to pull the trigger on just saying, all right, we got to go. we but wasn' It wasn't that hard after most of us were dead or or bad. Um, but I, it was not fun to stop looking for things to, to fix it. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
And I do like that this system has a baked in mechanic for this situation. Like I, like I didn't have to contrive anything. It was just, oh no, like narrative loss. Obviously this town gets taken over by Shavarath and we'll see what happens as a result of that.
00:11:07
Speaker
So it's bad, bad things. it It is very bad. Well, cause that is what happened to the other town that the orcs went to, right? Like that is the inciting incident was that town had been taken over by Shara. Yeah, but that was like a terrorist attack by Karnath. But yes, that, that, that was just intentional. Whereas this was a wizard.
00:11:28
Speaker
But the result was, yeah what happened to that town is going to happen to Olav. Yeah. It's rough, man. Yeah. It's, it'll be interesting to see.
00:11:39
Speaker
And what are the institutional powers doing about it? Nothing. that i I mean, you cannot know that. I mean, I know who they're blaming, but like I don't have to know it to say it. Yeah, Nyx too.
00:11:52
Speaker
Unless i any of you guys have anything more to say about that battle, we will move forward and start questions. um I don't want to talk much. Go ahead. I did have a question for you all just from a mechanic standpoint. Was it interesting to have the allies be abilities that you could use or not use? Because there were too many allies for me to think, yes, I will run all of these like ally parties as a part of the battle.
00:12:19
Speaker
Or did it make them feel a bit toothless because they, it was relying on you doing something on your turn to activate them i think it was fine think there was too many mechanics to keep track of on top of yeah yeah the npcs so like by the time you were describing like the third npc i was still writing down the first and at one point i just gave up and i was like yeah i'm just not going to use them i'm just not going to use them I agree that it felt like it was too many things, but also one round in I didn't have the option to use any of those things anymore because I didn't think anybody was on my side.
00:13:02
Speaker
But it is, i will say it it is tricky to give up an action in, in a game with, with this distinct action economy.
Narrative Consequences of Player Choices
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. Before I answer, I have a question because I can't remember. Did the Lyra's crew still have an initiative spot or did the only way they got used was if we used them?
00:13:29
Speaker
The only way they got used is if he used them. I would say I think I would have preferred... them to have a group like the crew initiative spot where they could have shot one if we didn't if we didn't avail ourselves of it because yeah it's hard to give up an action spot especially when i mean and maybe it is maybe it's actually easier for me and i just have my head around at that direction when i have to roll this dice and know what my next move has to be and be thinking about how to make it work the whole time
00:14:03
Speaker
There are times where probably be easier to be like, I don't have a heat. There's no one needs healing. And I pull the healing. Yeah. Dice fire away. Volaira's crew. But, but I will say i would prefer that to having 12, you know, allied NPCs have initiatives for sure.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I definitely get the impetus for it. And I'm sure there, know, it's hard to say I don't like it because I'm sure there are times where I would love it, where there was somebody who had a, especially if we had someone who was a healing specialist and we could use our quick action to send them, even if just to send them closer to somebody to heal them on their next turn or something direct. Yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker
Kind of thing.
00:14:49
Speaker
absolutely see that being And again, like I said, I loved being able to like flit around because I was flying and save townspeople. ah It felt good to be able to do something effective right up until I also tur bat turned into a little toady.
00:15:06
Speaker
So, okay. Let's get into questions. If any of you you have anything from the downtime you want to talk about between, I don't want to get into the new even though a couple episodes that have released, I believe, right?
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. New Mission, yeah. Leading up to the train fight. Including the train fight. Anyway, yeah. Even though I don't want to necessarily get into those, but if anybody has anything during the downtime where we found out, you know, the chapel graffiti and Doldorn's on the floor, or I believe it is Doldorn who is on the floor. this is what You know what? I am going to liberate myself from not being as dumb as Kaz.
00:15:43
Speaker
i to I wanted to say something as Jeff, but I was like, eh, not going to put it together yet. So I wrote down in my notes, is that dull thorn on the floor?
00:15:55
Speaker
boom Because I, I, the only person who thinks I'm funny. Anybody else, you need anything they to say about the downtime? All of my notes are from Kaz's perspective. Cause I was told her keep a journal. So my notes are bad now for anybody else's stuff. That's funny.
00:16:10
Speaker
Maybe I'll put some of those someday in the Discord, my Cas first person journal notes. Okay, sick. Let's move on to questions then.
00:16:20
Speaker
The first is from Emily, wants to know, so Eric, since the party chose to retreat, before Acheron could crown someone as the victor, what are some of the consequences you are thinking of using?
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, they were all going to be like, marshally themed because of where Akron is from. um i i was very much going to kind of leave it up to the flow of the fight because i was going to be a... I was not going to be above taking a limb, if that made sense, or some kind of severe scarring. In terms of narrative consequences,
00:16:58
Speaker
i was thinking of a very significant death in the fight of like one of the NPCs, like that being a thing, like the victor, whoever gets got crowned the victor loses control and likely it being related to one of your all's
Improvisation and Narrative Outcomes
00:17:17
Speaker
planes. Like whoever, if it, if it wasn't Nick's, then like one of the allies getting banished to the plane attached with you all. And.
00:17:29
Speaker
God's help them if Valk was crowned the victor. um but Don't gotta worry about that one. we should So yeah, that, that was kind of the thought that I had is having it be tied into your plane, but also something that like really packed a punch, like a member of Lyra screw probably would have been the biggest and easiest target just as they're the ones that you have the most familiarity with. The other idea was potentially the Madonna agent, just cause that would have had a lot of consequences from the institution that Nix loves so much. So.
00:18:01
Speaker
Those are just kind of the ideas that are flying around my head, but I stuff like that, Emily, I'm very much a in the moment, make the call kind of thing. Like I have some loose ideas, but I kind of let the session tell me what to do.
00:18:16
Speaker
So yeah. Yeah, Emily continues, Mia, Valk did not like being mistaken for being part of a couple with Nyx. Is this a Valk general thing or something specifically about Valk and Nyx?
00:18:32
Speaker
it That was hilarious. Does Nyx just give Valk the ick that bad? Multiple things. How do you unpack a person's broken mind to be understanding? Multiple things can be true. Number one, it's been like six months. He does not know this woman. And in five different locations,
00:18:55
Speaker
Granted, I think four or five. One of them I'm not counting because Giselle is friends with Zarya and just does whatever to antagonize Val. But those are bad. It does get weird that multiple people in different locations are saying the same thing about your co-worker of like...
00:19:16
Speaker
eight months. Has it happened that many times? And I've commented every time. No one else has. No one else has. Every time it's said, I upped the numbers. I think it was at four or five times at that point. That is funny.
00:19:34
Speaker
But I think it's multiple things. Number one, it mean, they don't know each other each Number two I think Valk has a very strict view of relationships.
00:19:54
Speaker
So for everyone to be put in the box of coworker and then people, random people keep trying to take one person out and move them. He's like, no, they go over here. They go over here. Stop. that is that that's this this is a square peg does not go in the circle hole like need to stay separate so he's genuinely very confused because in his perception no matter what he does it's viewed in like these are co-workers so nothing else can be interpreted because they're in the co-worker box
00:20:33
Speaker
um if they want to leave the co-worker box they can but i mean honestly nobody really i mean only nix really talks to him first place so it it's he's very much like if you are where you want to be and i also i think that it is which leads into partially being upsetting on or being upset on behalf of um Because Valk is knows he's a wet towel.
00:21:01
Speaker
Like, he kind of sucks. So it's like, please have higher standards. And the fact that there's no reaction from anyone. Like, he knows he's he can be a good looking guy.
00:21:15
Speaker
But he's a pretty off-putting person in general. So it's like, please have higher standards. Why is no one saying anything? I guess I'm just going to hard course correct and just become mean for the rest of the night.
00:21:31
Speaker
I will show you real quick, just jumping in. that's In Kaz's defense, Kaz has multiple times tried to talk to Valk and Valk has bullied Kaz out of the conversation. well Valk has bullied Kaz out of the conversation once because literally died.
00:21:47
Speaker
and then woke up in the air surrounded by people who are likely afraid of them or blame them isolated himself to try to process his own physical and emotional trauma and then looked up and then just saw a child going like mob i threw up he's not equipped for that he came to check on you Mom, I threw up. like totally wait
00:22:18
Speaker
The only person in the party who knows how to talk to people came to talk to you you. The only person who knows how to talk to people went to the one person who has said, I don't know how to talk to people.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's how it goes. It has a clash that was going to happen. Valk is is very much true to his words and his actions.
00:22:42
Speaker
If I leave, I leave. That is not the only time Valka Shuck has down. It's just the only time with stakes that Valka Shuck has down. There been times in the manor where I've been like, put the you and you're like shut up, kid. not Obviously not verbatim.
00:22:56
Speaker
It was earlier, but I think that's supposed to be what Eric is thinking about. Because one time I tried to talk to Val, gotten shut down, and I had to go to Nick's again. was I'll go to my... Nick's knows how to talk to people. yeah Nick's knows how to talk to people. She's presenting exactly the front that she intends to. Nothing thing about... This isn't Aeris. Nothing about this is accidental. Nick's is presenting exactly who she intends to present. It's just not...
00:23:26
Speaker
friendly. That's yeah. To say, to say doesn't know how to talk to people is unfair. So people might want to talk back to my, there you go. The next question is who all is going to be there. And I lied and said, all of us could clearly Madison is not here.
00:23:38
Speaker
She will come in and to answer the question that was directly asked to her. Eric, if you, Emily continues, if you were a player in this campaign, what sort of character would you make?
00:23:51
Speaker
Here's the deal. Like I, My, my brain is so D20 coded right now that like any character concept I come up with would not work in 13th age.
Character Creation Across Game Systems
00:24:05
Speaker
Um, but the classes that I really liked in 13th age, that I think would be a lot of fun to play. i liked the rogue a lot. I think it has some really interesting mechanics, especially in second edition.
00:24:17
Speaker
The bard is really interesting. All that to say, like, I, I really loved the idea of a, an invest, like a mundane investigator type that his planer abilities lash out in spite of his intentions, almost like a guardian angel protecting him kind of thing.
00:24:40
Speaker
Whatever plane that manifests from, um, I, what plane would you pick? I know that's the, that's the big question.
00:24:50
Speaker
I really like Fernie because of the genies that live there. I think like having a genie kind of bound to you, ah begrudgingly is really funny. So kind of a, almost like Sherlock Holmes meets human torch thing where it's like, but I'm, I'm just a simple detective who sometimes catches on fire and goes crazy.
00:25:10
Speaker
So yeah, that's something along those lines is probably the type of character that I would make, but it it would be somebody who most the time attempts to stay in the mundane, but when danger presents itself, his attachments, to the plane lashes out on his behalf and he's apologizing the whole time.
00:25:30
Speaker
So that's my concept. All right, ah for the rest of us, if we were to GM an arc of this campaign using a different system, what system would you pick? And then bonus points, which I was unaware we were being scored.
00:25:42
Speaker
Now I will start playing harder. Bonus points if the system change reflects how the plane of the week is warping. The plane of the week. Obviously, my go-to plane is Delanus because I'm good at Faye stuff. But for a, I was trying to think of what is a system that would match to a plane and what I came up with that sounds...
00:26:06
Speaker
fun, although I don't know how to actually do it. I don't know how you how how I would create a story, but I think it would be fun to take Genesis and do a Zoriat adventure, except that all of the like advantage and threat and triumph and despair are going to just completely fundamentally on a massive scale change the schedule or change the situation because Zoriat is is the plane of ah utter chaos.
00:26:36
Speaker
And so it's not just you roll a triumph. So, yay, something, you know, beneficial to us happened. You rolled a triumph. Where would you like this fight to be taking place?
00:26:47
Speaker
That sort of like huge swing thing that Genesis does well, I think would be would be fun to to ratchet up in in a Zoriath situation. This is not a meek.
00:27:00
Speaker
Okay. Fair enough. I was trying to think of ways to make kids on bikes work with a plane because it is my favorite system to GM. But I was also thinking Zori at, and I think vampire, the masquerade and Zori at would be.
00:27:15
Speaker
An absolute blast. Or any of the like the very simple like lasers and feelings, engine type yeah of games where just if if you do too much one direction or another, either you get kicked out, like spat out of the plane before away from your party before you had a chance to finish the job, or you live here now, brother.
00:27:38
Speaker
Either one of those I think would be pretty And that would be what feel like. What's the hyper dystopian real simple RPG that they've run a Gen Con a couple of times that's like you're in a business and it's and big it's kind of a big brother theme? Oh, Paranoia.
00:27:55
Speaker
Paranoia. Paranoia in Donvi. Yeah, that'd be fun. The Plane of Order. just Yeah, that hybrid. The benevolent dystopia.
00:28:06
Speaker
I would really like also Zori at, to run, let me go grab the book for all our viewers. That's for you all. Cause I don't know if you're familiar with the system. All right. It's called heart the city of Nise.
00:28:19
Speaker
So I would really love to run a drought based, like short campaign ah set in the under dark and like in Kyber, um, like the Umbergen drow in Zendrick, because this system is all about, there is like a living heart ah in the center of the earth that you're trying to get to and destroy because all of the monsters that are invading your home come from this place.
00:28:43
Speaker
But the cool thing is, so basically Zoriat with like alternate alternative reality versions of your characters, because the big powerful thing that your class gets in this system kills your character.
Exploring Heart: The City of Nise for Dramatic Campaigns
00:28:56
Speaker
Like, this is a Dirty Dozen suicide mission TTRPG. So you, one by one, when you get to the final, like, segment, kind of make the determination when's your time to hit the kill switch.
00:29:10
Speaker
Nice. So, yeah. I could also see City of Mist in Dalgore just with all yeah the... I mean, the the point of City of Mists is that you have some sort of fantastical, or in our case, when we did it, like ah fairy tale e he alter ego almost that helps power you. And in the dark corner, that could be literally anything.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah. Which would be, could be a monster. should be kind of fun. Yeah. That'd be cool. ninety type I like the city of mist. Maybe one day. Okay. Steve asks, forgive me if I missed something for why hasn't anyone told Nix that she didn't just lose control.
00:29:48
Speaker
She and cats both got befuddled by a demon in the same way. It wasn't unique to her player nature, just an enchantment that also got another member of the team. If anyone saw that, why haven't they told their friend who's clearly suffering from overwhelming guilt?
00:29:59
Speaker
i thought it I thought both Valk and Selena. We did. Because Selena told me about mine. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known either. And I thought that we'd had that conversation that we may not have played I know the Valk. Yeah, I remember what Valk did, I think. Is that right when she was getting ready to leave?
00:30:19
Speaker
Right. Now, have we sat with Nyx and asked her how she feels about that it wasn't? that what happened was not a direct result of the things that have been affecting her entire life? No, we have not.
00:30:35
Speaker
Does Nyx seem like she wants that? I mean, she's the one that's not going to the therapist. except that Nyx has a, I mean, Nyx would be reluctant to go see any therapist, but there's a reason Nyx is not going to talk to this doctor.
00:30:50
Speaker
Sure. And this doctor knows it and has not done anything about it. So there you go. Anyway, Well, here, like allow me to so push back a little bit on the premise of this.
00:31:05
Speaker
um It's not true that Nyx didn't lose control. And it's not true that this has nothing to do with the things that have been going on in Nyx's life all of Nyx's life.
00:31:16
Speaker
It's just that nobody else recognized Acheron in Shavaroth. It's absolutely the case that Nix's familiar engineered that entire situation.
00:31:29
Speaker
It's just that none of you knew what the familiar looked like in that situation. So, um, was witness that not.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah Right. Yeah. And, Nix doesn't know what to do with that information yet. And that's why she has not said anything about it to the party. Sure.
00:31:52
Speaker
So even if, and, and, and as it's been pointed out, some have tried, but even if someone was to try to have a real heart to heart with Nix about this, can't.
00:32:05
Speaker
think what Nix knows about the situation that the rest of the group doesn't know is going to hinder any attempt to convince Nix that it was just bad luck and it didn't it wasn't something inherent in her because she has recently learned that someone is actually trying to turn her into that exact thing and it is exactly inherent in her.
00:32:31
Speaker
So that's... would also be a relevant factor in any attempt to helped nix process what went what went down so yeah i also want to that the person who had the most information about it was also the person that died and also the two people
Character Dynamics Post-Incident
00:32:53
Speaker
who interact like the most so i just want to just monopolize the dumping of information so it's been strategically not strategically without just isn't going to talk about it because he's he's a
00:33:07
Speaker
What? Yeah, I was going to say also like narratively, Nick's grievously injured Valk in a way that is bad enough to apparently fundamentally alter the way that Valk's nature works.
00:33:24
Speaker
And so I'm not at all surprised that Valka and Nyx are sort of just deciding, you know, maybe if we just never have a conversation about this in any kind of detailed way, it'll eventually just scab over and it'll be fine.
00:33:41
Speaker
Push it down. Push it down. Put that over here in this box. and All right. A handful of questions, guys. You build the walls up. A handful of questions from Kevin now. Eric, how long have you had the Forbidden Library set up and do you expect did you expect everyone to head in for Temptation quite so quickly?
Exploration of the Forbidden Library
00:34:01
Speaker
So the forbidden library was in the original upgrades doc that was shared. So it's been there from jump, but no, I did not expect everyone to go down and browse for their own personal. Like, I mean, I don't know why I didn't, but I had, I had some stuff ready. I just didn't expect to blow through it all in two episodes. um What are all these kids doing in this toy store? So yeah, but no, it's been there the whole time.
00:34:26
Speaker
I have updated the nature of the books from the beginning of the campaign when I first built them because like Madison showing Selena having an interest in arcane swordsmanship was something that came organically over the course of the campaign. So like that was a new entry that I built out over time. So yeah.
00:34:46
Speaker
right. We're going jump around a little bit since she's out here. Madison, how does Selena feel about Nyx asking her to put her down if she fully loses control? o I think, I think Selena, I don't know. I think she's torn about it because she understands and would probably ask the same thing in that situation.
00:35:07
Speaker
I don't know that Selena really has any intention of actually doing that, but she's happy to say that she will. And she thinks that in the moment she's going to figure out a way around it and figure a different solution. She agreed to it and will definitely let Nix down when the time comes. Absolutely. And then also, does Selena have any reservations about being out in the field after essentially being the last one standing in the last job?
00:35:32
Speaker
I think probably like similar reservations to what everyone else might have, but I don't think anything kind of isolated to being the last one standing. I think, I think we all probably are a little bit like unsure.
00:35:46
Speaker
i think that probably shook us a little bit, but I don't think there's anything like specific to being the last one standing. Okay. All right. Mia.
00:35:58
Speaker
that you get out yeah all right i was like that's not me looking at her sorry because she was reaching for her head but i was like oh she's gone she gave it and did her job and peacing out mia valk is amazing to be clear this is kevin talking uh thank you for the clarification
00:36:23
Speaker
Valk is amazing and I can't wait to see more of their story unfold. Is there anything you can share about the gifts he's created for everyone? Is there a personal significance to gift giving or is there more to it like an empathetic link to the holder?
Valk's Motivations and Character Development
00:36:37
Speaker
From Mia's standpoint, half of what I say is to fill silence. ah So that just happened. From what it's become is... i think first it was a very failed bid for connection.
00:36:55
Speaker
in his sense of... i just feel like... the 50 bucks on y'all. Here's something nice. And everyone's like, thanks. And then immediately turns away. So there was, there's that, but I think Without him even knowing, because this came up with Hendrix, that like it might have always been intended to be failsafe or some sort of connection just to him. Because there's also other stuff that he's doing that nobody asks about. oh
00:37:32
Speaker
But... I think the the gifts in particular, one, were an attempt to connect or having some way to connect with them, and it did not go the way he was intending outside of just like, a cool, thanks. And then now it's just like, okay, I guess we'll go with plan two.
00:37:52
Speaker
If we need to use magic, that's what we have. um But he's a person that wants to connect with people but just can't.
00:38:04
Speaker
And that has been like a result of hitting rock bottom and then making like a really fun and comfortable camp at rock bottom and just organizing the rocks down there wanting to do wi anything else about it um so he tries and like the way that he has found the most success with other people in his life is to just be like what if i just keep giving you things for you to acknowledge me um so it's it might spiral into like a how much am i going to give or do i even have anything left to give to try to get some sort of attention or affection or anything
00:38:53
Speaker
Maybe. Who knows? I didn't plan for it. We're winging it. Terrible news. Kaz is a quality time guy. you know It's what's going to happen is the same thing that Valk did to Hendrik. Kaz is going to to Valk. know Sitting there.
00:39:08
Speaker
you feel like Can you please leave? No. We're locked in. It's like, oh God, I don't like this. I'm going to break through. going to break through.
00:39:21
Speaker
all right. Kevin asks me as Kaz's time in Thelanus is being revealed, is there anything that's made you reconsider Kaz as a character or left you wondering how your Kaz got to that
Kaz's Character Growth Journey
00:39:32
Speaker
point?
00:39:32
Speaker
I am full of wondering how Kaz got to that point. That is the main thing that I do when I think about this campaign is wonder how Kaz got to where he is. Both my Kaz and Eric's Kaz ah that he has control of.
00:39:47
Speaker
I will say, as far as reconsidering the character, Kaz has matured more quickly than I initially thought he was going to. I thought he might kind of be the kid, as everyone calls him, for longer, if not the whole time.
00:40:02
Speaker
But him getting glimpses of what he becomes has made him realize that he has potential to become something greater and is kind of...
00:40:14
Speaker
tried to force the high on that a little bit by, he's still a kid, so he doesn't know how to act more mature in a lot of ways, but he's trying to project and a sense of maturity more often. You know, some of the ways that he has interacted with the adults in the room, especially when we're back at the manor, I've tried to put more of trying to the same. So I've got a 15 year old son who is, who is,
00:40:40
Speaker
really mature for his age to the point that he often kicks it with me and my buddies and like fits in and but there are also sometimes where I have to be like no you didn't nail it with that one pal like there's you are still in fact 15 years old and you will still in fact be treated that way because you do still fact act that way a good amount of the time and so I've tried to put a little bit more of that into Kaz as I've been doing it not in the ways that Ferris does it but
00:41:10
Speaker
Similarly, Philip, what would Nyx have done differently had he not so had she not succumbed to Shavarath so soon in the last battle? And then what do you think about everybody's new Shavarath abilities?
00:41:22
Speaker
Not grievously injured her friends. Sure, sure. actually killed a couple of people from the town, which is something that we haven't dealt with. Like, Nyx has brought it up a couple of times and...
00:41:40
Speaker
I think Nyx does not feel like anyone else is taking that part seriously enough. People die today. Oh, yeah. But, like, I killed some random civilians, and...
00:41:54
Speaker
we're probably wanted by the authorities in connection to a couple of murders. So, yeah. I mean, obviously not done that. I don't know. i guess probably tried to figure out what the rules were of this game that Acheron was clearly trying to put on.
00:42:14
Speaker
And then, depending on what she was able to figure out, either try to complete the you know, quote unquote, win conditions or attempt to thwart them.
00:42:27
Speaker
Ironically, the loss of control and then Acheron being what seemed to Nix, although not to Philip, the seemingly very forthcoming conversation that Acheron offered afterwards is the only reason that k Nix is still like,
00:42:47
Speaker
enduring Acheron's presence. ah Like I think if if Nix hadn't lost control and it worked out, okay, Acheron is masterminding something right now to do something to me, successfully or not, Nix would be attempting to break that bond.
00:43:03
Speaker
What do i Philip, think of everyone's new Shavaroth abilities? I think it's really cool and just disturbing, and I'm worried about the implications of it. ah I'm not sure if Nyx knows that everyone has new Shavaroth abilities because I don't think we've seen them displayed yet.
00:43:21
Speaker
If Nyx realizes that everyone else has been in some way infected with Shavaroth, she will absolutely believe that to be entirely her fault.
00:43:32
Speaker
And it will be very bad. No one tell her. All right. And then a question for all of us. What prior mission is your character most proud of? And if your character could take a vacation, where would they go?
00:43:46
Speaker
I, Kaz is most proud of the zombie mission because it's the first time he felt like he made a contribution outside of like accidentally casting spells that helped in battle with when he had like addressed crowds of people and they actually did what he said and stuff.
00:44:01
Speaker
Um, so that is, and also it's a, you know, we worked together well as a team, which made him alleviate a little bit of that homesickness that he has. So I think he very much thinks of that one first when he thinks of the good times he's had with the crew in the field.
00:44:18
Speaker
Nix is most proud of and most traumatized by Pella's watch.
Reflecting on the Pella's Watch Mission
00:44:23
Speaker
because it's the worst thing that we have solved. And she was correct from the get-go of what we need to do is march straight into Jim Johnson's office.
00:44:34
Speaker
Incorrect as to why. Incorrect as to why. But her method would have gotten us there. And so it's the one where she feels that from the moment we were in the town, she had the best idea of what was going on, even though her ultimate conclusion was wrong, as we've seen.
00:44:52
Speaker
But she had the best idea of of what we need to do. Like her go straight towards what I see as the problem and hit it with a sharp weapon. was the most appropriate in in that situation compared to all of the others.
00:45:09
Speaker
And she sees it as the worst thing that we have gone, that we have faced in terms of what what was happening there. And she has nightmares about the orphanage. So, you know, she's glad it's not there. That's a free brick, guys. It's true.
00:45:26
Speaker
True. I... I hate being the contrarian, but I think Valk has taken a very, like, observer standpoint. I think especially because the way that he fights and engages is very, it's support based.
00:45:43
Speaker
um So it's not like he's directly engaging in any sort of battles in also not the best at the communications portion, but fully understanding what is going on or having some idea of what is going on.
00:46:03
Speaker
That is where he best fits, so I'm not... Sure, if there is one in particular that he would be proud of in the sense of like, I did something to contribute to the the end goal.
Valk’s Role and Team Dynamics
00:46:22
Speaker
I think maybe the one that is the most interesting probably would have just everyone engaging with...
00:46:34
Speaker
Dimitri Dimitri specifically because I think it showed him that they don't really listen to me don't really take me seriously and it was it was one of those times where it's like I'm trying to stop it I'm trying to get ahead I'm trying to intervene everyone's going around me so I'm just gonna let I'm just gonna see what happens I'm just gonna let me Nick's hated him from the get-go, as you advised.
00:47:07
Speaker
susan this i think just to... And you wonder why people mistake you for a couple. ah air Honestly, it's just you. You're the brat. And sadly for you, I control literally everyone else. But yeah, I think just watching...
00:47:24
Speaker
how everyone gauges what he says and in more of like a literal sense of like i'm actually not trying to be confusing right now i don't like this guy it it should be weird that the weird one thinks that this guy is weird um so i think that was probably the most informative for him of all like the missions yeah okay vacation Oh yeah. You know what? A Keith Baker article on Eberron's vacation spots would be really cool. And I don't know that exists, but i guess Nyx's ideal vacation. I'm not sure where, where I would put this in, in Corbair, but Nyx's ideal vacation is probably like relatively secluded beachside.
00:48:18
Speaker
She does not want to go to a place with lots of people. Like she'd probably enjoy gambling and drinking in Las Vegas, but something would go wrong in the course of that. And so, yeah, lay out on a beach, be brought drinks. Nick's could go for that.
00:48:36
Speaker
Kaz feels like a ski resort guy to me, ah both in the the idea that it's like, you know, and activity I think you would enjoy in a setting you would enjoy, but also this idea If you're a ski resort person, this doesn't, I'm sure this isn't you.
00:48:53
Speaker
ah But the idea that this is extreme and roughing it and like I'm on the mountain, but also like I'm at a resort. Like i I'm out on the mountain and I'm shredding hard, but also there's a hot tub and a buffet.
00:49:08
Speaker
Like that feels very sad to me. yeah Not that that's a bad thing. That sounds like an awesome trip. It was amazing, though I don't know why I immediately went to like the Red Bull Sports, but a nice little resort at like the bottom of the mountain.
00:49:21
Speaker
I think Valk attempted to go to a small town and live his life, and that didn't work. ah Then he got recruited. Then he got recruited. But I i think...
00:49:40
Speaker
I don't even know. Yeah, because he was just going to go to some place random and just be there and exist in, like, some just boring random city. Not a big city, just a place.
00:49:53
Speaker
And just kind of blend in as poorly as he would have with everyone around him. Well, mean, I guess technically could shapeshift. Yeah, um yeah she got very blend in. ah Yeah.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah. could have a different shape every day so that no one could ever get used to recognizing. Yeah. So I think if it there was just just like some looking at available flights and just choosing the cheapest one and just being like, yeah, that's going to be.
00:50:23
Speaker
My view is like a Walmart. And this is this is real good for me. I love this. That's amazing. I love it.
Nyx's Resignation and Agency
00:50:35
Speaker
All right. We finished this out with some questions from our old friend Pop-Tart. Philip, what was the likelihood of Nyx actually departing? Did you have another character ready to step in? Did you talk to Eric or the party about it?
00:50:49
Speaker
I did not talk to anyone ahead of time. I do have another character because I very, very nearly played a different character and then got caught up in the idea of Nyx. And so I do have another character in the wings should something happen to Nyx.
00:51:04
Speaker
And, you know, as recklessly as I tend to play characters, that's always a possibility. um But the likelihood Nyx actually... On, on neither the part of Nix nor of Philip was that a faint or a disingenuous offer.
00:51:22
Speaker
Nix absolutely feels that her, the main thing that she is useful for in this company is protecting the others.
00:51:36
Speaker
And we have just learned that if you put her in the right circumstances, she becomes the exact opposite of that. Uh, and so it made sense from even just from a professional standpoint, that Nix needed to resign.
00:51:54
Speaker
And so offered her resignation and would absolutely have would absolutely have walked out the door probably even after Javier didn't want her resignation.
00:52:10
Speaker
if she hadn't gotten fairly clear signals from the others as well. Now, likelihood in ten in sense of actual odds, I thought the Philip thought the odds of Eric having Javier accept Nix's resignation and of the others being like,
00:52:29
Speaker
Okay, bye. Yeah. you go or it see ya We're extremely low. Like I don't, I didn't expect the rest of the players and GM to go along with Nyx just leaving.
00:52:43
Speaker
But it was absolutely the thing Nyx would do given these circumstances. And so she she'd have absolutely left. And yeah, I got another character sitting around.
00:52:55
Speaker
I built it. I don't actually know what he is in 13th age, but I know the concept. who Everyone, what would you pick for your character's theme song? Arsonist Lullaby by Hozier. I think I've answered that before.
00:53:11
Speaker
And Jeff said he was going to think about it, and I'm looking at his face, and it says he didn't. You nailed it. Zawk actually has like a two-hour playlist so that I can drive the Aerox in Bat. That's way longer than mine. My next playlist is not nearly two hours.
00:53:26
Speaker
I ought to have enough music for it to not be the same with Ken's. it's That's fair. I think the one that I like the most is Lies by Santiago.
00:53:38
Speaker
beenlet That one's a relief. There's that one. He has another one. And it's Santiago with an if. I'm just going to try to, as suddenly don't know how to spell. Yeah, it's Lies or Drifting.
00:53:51
Speaker
Those are two that are very good. That fit. Valk. I think it's it's him at different times because the playlist is ah kind of like a chronological narrative, but at different times, those those are songs that work.
00:54:10
Speaker
thanks There is a band called The Family Crest and they have an album. They two albums, The War Act 1 and The War Act 2. And the vibe of those albums is very Kaz to me. I don't know if I can pick one. Let me look at the track list for Act 1.
00:54:29
Speaker
There's a song called daggers that might be his, and there's another song called I was born. There are both ones that I think about as when I hear them. So probably one of those two, but really the whole, the whole war side, there's also an album called prelude to war, but I feel like I'm getting stingy. If I start maybe three different albums that might have a cast theme. song um but Um, and it's not every song on the albums, but the ones that kind of play inside of that theme ah feel very cast like to me.
00:54:54
Speaker
Um,
00:54:57
Speaker
so So there, Eric, since you like wrestling, if these characters were professional wrestlers, what would their monikers be? Yeah, I i think that... So I got a bit too meta when I was thinking about Pop-Tart still thinks Nyx is her real name. Well, if if I were the dictator-esque owner of a wrestling promotion, we're able to force my will upon all of my wrestlers and force them to have ridiculous names.
00:55:23
Speaker
um i'm not just I'm not reading the ironing successfully here. Is that how it actually works? Yes. it Yes. Yes. You can't use your real name because then if you ever do anything with your real name, they get licensing. Right. yeah Well, sure. I assume you can use your real name, but i didn't know if I didn't know if the performers got to. If you had a really cool name in another company, well, they can't wholly own that name. So we'll get a new name when you get here that we can wholly own.
00:55:49
Speaker
And sometimes they're really lame. Man, Powerhouse Hobbs was such a cool name. my My favorite is a wrestler whose real name was Bryan Danielson, and he joined the company, and they said, your name is Daniel Bryan. Thanks. Just ridiculous.
00:56:07
Speaker
No, I mean, Kaz would be something with kid in it. Like, I want to keep i should keep the lost story. yeah kids Kid story time. Kid story time. yeah didn we Kid surprise. Nyx would be something, just based on her aesthetic, would be like Artemis Moonshade or something like just very, very cheesy.
00:56:26
Speaker
Uh, and then I, I think Valk would be that rare entity that showed up and nobody would know what to do with. And so they would just keep calling them Valk and just be like, cause occasionally that does happen with a wrestler, even at like the height of the super copyright thing where they just show up from another company. It's like, why did they get to keep their name? And it's cause nobody knew what, what to do. if They think yeah yeah like,
00:56:50
Speaker
I don't know how to call you anything but John Cena, this big guy said. Which is his government name. That's insane. His dad's name is John Cena Sr., which also sounds ridiculous.
00:57:02
Speaker
That's true. Yeah, there is the catch. And I don't know when the last time Pop-Tart watched wrestling, I think he's around my age, which means it might've been like when the attitude era or just before the, the nickname or moniker is not as much a can convention anymore as just a really weird or cool first and last name.
00:57:22
Speaker
Like it's very rare that you have like Kane or the undertaker. Now it's like, yeah, like Seth Rollins and you know, Roman Reigns. And then also because we have described Selena as having a very princess aesthetic, she would have to have a very pop girly, like Bella Trixie or something like awful and demeaning.
00:57:43
Speaker
the Princess death. Yeah. i could see them I could see them working, the company the company especially, like calling her Zelda something or something Zelda because that name is a real name and cannot be copywritten.
00:57:57
Speaker
They just can't call her Princess Zelda at any point. Duchess Zelda. Yeah. Yeah. I know that you were probably hoping for like a fun answer, but instead you got meta commentary about the wrestling industry. Pop Tark. So there you go.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah. Zelda dark side. Yeah, no, I, I will, I will concur. Kaz would definitely be the something kid or he's like kid. Whoopsie. Like, yeah. it just You never really know what's going to... Everyone would hate working with Kaz because you cannot choreograph a match with the guy. You should know go work your crash what's going to be next. Botch City with Kaz. All right, Eric, on a more serious note, you had to start thinking about if the party didn't want didn't retreat and lost.
00:58:39
Speaker
Can you share what that looks like in your game? would it have been Would that have been all agents are missing? Spin up new characters? What would be... I wouldn't talk to the party about it if we had a true TPK, because there are two, there are honestly three avenues we could go.
00:58:57
Speaker
One, you all wake up in Shabrath as prisoners and need to get out on your own. um Which would be a cool behind enemy lines, like terrifying ah kind of adventure.
00:59:12
Speaker
Thirdly is we let you all spin up temporary characters based on NPCs that we maybe know, NPCs at the manor. And it's a rescue mission to go rescue your own characters from Shabrath.
00:59:23
Speaker
um Javier, Aurora, and and Alget have to saddle up for... Wow, the Rumi erasure. That's oh ruy so I know. well I introduced him and then I forgot about him. That's awful. Dibs on Alget.
00:59:38
Speaker
And... thought the teleporting butler. at Teleporting, powerful. the The only limitation of his power is you can only tear teleport where it would be creepiest. so yeah Sure. It has to be behind someone. Like how Roger Rabbit can only do it when it's funny? Yeah. still yeah yeah It's weird. now Well, and it's helpful because he's a lich and the manor is his phylactery. So if he dies, he'll just re-manifest at the manor.
01:00:04
Speaker
and That is not canon. Ladies and gentlemen, that is Phillips crazy conspiracy theories. And the last one is obviously TBK roll up a new party and we have X-Men first class has been defeated. Time for storm Wolverine Colossus time for the uncanny cell uncanny lighthouse.
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah. To show up. Um, so yeah, those those are the three options and it would have been a conversation with the party. based Based on that analogy, i'm going to like that group a lot better.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah. think everyone, I think I'm the only one that so ah I'm the only Cyclops apologist in the world, I think. So anyway, they take him off the deep end in some recent things.
01:00:50
Speaker
I, yeah, I saw a thing where it was somebody like who has the best heat vision and Cyclops is in the graphic and I'm just like, he doesn't have heat vision. Why'd they make it red? It confuses everyone. have punch vision, obviously. All right. And our last question ah for the night, finishing out pop tarts line of questions. Everyone, if you were a ghost goblin causing trouble in a creepy manner and had access to any real world book, what book would you throw dismissively first?
01:01:19
Speaker
I just, I got to say the Bible to get out of the way because i think it'd be hilarious to say no. but's The Bible. All right, now what? What book would you throw dismissively? i can't even curse on this podcast, so I cannot say the book that I would throw to torment people.
01:01:38
Speaker
You could self-censor. You could say... no you cannot. But it would be a naughty book. It's an naughty book. It's the naughty Oh, this so this is just like the book we hate the most.
01:01:52
Speaker
I, that's difficult. I feel like, is this me or my character? Me. i I mean, it would be a dictionary or the larger volumes of an alphabetical encyclopedia. If I'm going throw something, i want it to matter.
01:02:07
Speaker
it's a behind it i want like a big honking dictionary. Like one of those ones that have to be on a stand. No, Philip, you have an answer? I don't know. Art of the Deal, Twilight.
01:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, like Atlas Shrugged is the one that popped ahead first popped in my head first. I would shrug while I was doing it. The art of war, because I'm tired of people pretending it's universally applicable to every situation of life.
01:02:30
Speaker
that's Right? so paper Or necessarily profound. With the art of war in mind. It's how do you get free fries, man.
01:02:43
Speaker
I was trying to think, i'm I'm on a book reading journey this year. And how many are you up to? I have completed, hang on, I'll tell you. 79 books this year.
01:02:54
Speaker
Wow. Delations. Thanks. it's I had a lot to catch up on. I didn't really read a lot for probably the last decade. So there are plenty. ah But I've only not finished three.
01:03:04
Speaker
And I cannot honestly remember the titles of any of the three that I saw. One was called Three Bags Full. And it was terrible. And so and they made a movie out of it recently. So maybe that one.
01:03:17
Speaker
I'll throw that book. There's also a very bad Moby Dick adaptation that I can't remember the name of right now. Hell's heart. I think yeah. Hell's heart. It was rough. If you like Moby Dick, give it a shot. I guess space Moby Dick.
01:03:32
Speaker
i I guess my relevant answer, if we're talking just given the nature of our podcast is mine would be the 2024 D and D players handbook. Oh, yeah got him. Uh,
01:03:43
Speaker
Yes. i I didn't read it. I don't know enough about it. We'd stop playing. i have tell but didn Anyway, Jeff, take us home. Sick. All right. Well, that's it.
01:03:53
Speaker
Thanks for all your questions, everyone. Make sure to join us right here next Friday for the next episode, continuing our current story arc.
01:04:05
Speaker
If you'd like to join our discord, you can do so. The link is in the description of this episode. And Philip, would you like to plug Oh, ah yes, on Spotify and YouTube, you can find Tales from the Laughing Tree, where we have another actual play called Blades and Banners. It's Pirates in Eberron.
01:04:25
Speaker
All right, we're going to call it there because this episode goes out in like four hours. So I've been Jeff. I'm Mia. I remain Phillip.
01:04:36
Speaker
I have still been Eric. Thanks for listening. Goodbye.