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Justice, Community, and Clearing the Path with Adam Henderson #64
48 Plays16 days ago
What if the phrase "second chance" is itself the problem? Adam Henderson, VP of Sales at Orijin, opens this conversation with Shane Lukas and Mattie Bynum by challenging a widely-used framing — arguing that for many incarcerated people, it was never a first chance to begin with. The episode maps what's possible: Massachusetts' model of 24/7 in-prison programming, Tennessee's "hidden talent" workforce initiative connecting incarcerated people to major labor gaps, and Iowa's tech-based parole check-ins reducing costly technical violations. Threaded through it all is a sharp analysis of how race, gender, and identity shape who gets incarcerated, who gets harmed inside, and who gets a real shot on the outside — with a particular focus on the disproportionate impact on queer and trans communities.
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Transcript
First Chances in Incarceration
00:00:00
Speaker
I heard you mention second chance. ah I hate that term because a lot of times it's the first chance. When you look at whether somebody's incarcerated just for being in the wrong situation or the color of their skin or where they grew up or different things like that.
00:00:19
Speaker
This could be their first chance to actually ingest education and figure out a career path and understand things that are actually available to them instead of looking at what was just kind of in their neighborhood.
Host Introductions & Setting the Tone
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer change-making podcast bringing you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world. I'm Shane Lucas, he, him. i am a lifelong harm reductionist, a lifelong advocate, activist. I own a great idea and i am slowly but surely trying to figure out how to do yoga.
00:00:58
Speaker
So I do welcome any tips there. that is my That is my current fascination for the year, that and picking up Spanish. So I don't know what everybody else is trying to learn how to do, but I'm a lifelong learner too.
00:01:09
Speaker
All right, that was a lot. so I'm going to try to follow that up I am Maddie, the loudest one in the room except for today because I do have a voice issue, but I am still here. And guess what? My personality is louder than my voice itself. So yes, we are here.
00:01:23
Speaker
Unlike Shane, I am not trying to do yoga because I am lactose intolerant, so I can't do that with my body. Secondly, also, you said you're learning Spanish. I think I know Spanish, but very un poquito, and I know just enough about leche and how to ask for a glass of aquafin.
00:01:41
Speaker
That is about my accent when it comes to Spanish. And I do apologize. I am going to do better with that, but that is who I am.
Introducing Adam Henderson
00:01:49
Speaker
Our guest today is someone who shows up in the intersection of education, justice, and humanity. He is a clear leader working in infrastructure, not just building systems, but helping to rebuild lives. Adam Henderson is the vice president of Origin.
00:02:05
Speaker
He works alongside correctional facilities and employers to make sure that justice impacted individuals don't just get a second chance, but get real tools, real dignity, and a real pathway to a sustainable future.
Adam's Educational Journey
00:02:19
Speaker
Welcome, Adam. It's nice to have you here. Thanks for having me. glad to be here. Thank you so for joining us today at Power Beyond Pride, Adam. So glad. It's great to connect. we sha Shane and I have met a couple of times. Maddie, it's great to actually meet you virtually. so happy to be here. Yes, yes, yes. I will say this to y'all who are listening and watching us.
00:02:39
Speaker
I just recently met Adam, but I can tell you he is the funniest person that you'll ever meet. And he is the smoothest person. So think this is going to great conversation. I'm looking forward to it today.
00:02:50
Speaker
I feel crush energy going on right now. i feel all this crush energy going on. just I don't know if you can see, but I'm i'm blushing a little bit. Jesus.
00:03:00
Speaker
Adam, it takes a selfless person to work at the intersection of incarceration, education, and betterment, right? So, I mean, it's incredible, your commitment and work in this area. And again, it's a beautiful thing and it affirms really early on what it means to to think about those in society when we talk about, not just second chances, but we talk about what it means to live in a system that really wants to encourage people opportunities to bridge maybe past decisions or or poor decisions and and moving moving forward. And I'd love to know a little bit about what influenced you in your life to go into this pathway.
00:03:35
Speaker
I kind of say I fell into it, but I think it's, I think I'm giving it not a true statement when I say that. I really tried to, i was talking to Maddie earlier, i was in ed tech and education publishing for a really long time.
00:03:52
Speaker
And one of those things, it was like, all right, Yes, we're helping students. We're helping teachers. We're helping parents and homeschool, but there has to be something more. And I had an opportunity to connect with the co-founder of the company that work with, Origin, that I work with now.
00:04:08
Speaker
And it was like, all right, this this is what is what I've been kind of looking for. is i heard you mention second chance. i don't I hate that term because a lot of times it's the first chance.
00:04:23
Speaker
When you look at... Whether somebody is incarcerated just for being in the bat in ah in the wrong situation or the color of their skin or where they grew up or different things like that, this this could be their first chance to actually ingest education and figure out a career path and understand things that are actually available to them instead of looking at what was just kind of in their neighborhood.
00:04:48
Speaker
So big it's kind of become a, education has always been in the forefront. Which is odd for me to say because i never finished college. I started and stopped my undergrad for many years, but it was until my mid-40s that I was able to find an executive and MBA program to where I was able to do an MBA program in 12 months because I always kind of felt I had that thing lacking.
00:05:16
Speaker
But yeah, so it's always kind of been, education has always kind of been, I've seen a path to what an individual deems as successful. We shouldn't judge what they think is success. So that was a lot.
00:05:31
Speaker
So. No, but you're right. I would definitely say that goes back to the old cliche, those who can't do teach. So don't don't don't be upset that it took you so long to to finish your undergrad. I think, in all honesty, we put a lot of emphasis on that piece of paper.
00:05:47
Speaker
We put a lot of emphasis on that degree. But in reality, i had a friend break it down to me the other day, and i actually had to agree with him. He was like, college itself wasn't just for the education. It was for the experience and the networking. And And I had to agree with them. I'm like, there was a lot that I learned in college, but then there was a lot that I learned in college. So I think that that doesn't necessarily come from going to school. I think anybody can can get that same type of learning in everyday life.
00:06:16
Speaker
But I do want to go back and touch on something because you made a comment about the education part. So it sounds like you have a bigger connection with education. So what got you into education and what made you an advocate for education?
00:06:28
Speaker
I kind of fell into education at the very beginning. So when I lived in Baltimore, I worked at big box retail and I got tired of kind of the grind. And so I found a small education chain that sold materials to teachers and schools and parents.
00:06:46
Speaker
So I started working for them and then did that for a few years and then kind of got an idea of, let's say oh, There's more to this. And then started, got into the sales side of things, working for a publisher.
00:07:01
Speaker
And that's when we moved to Greensboro. And again, it was kind of like, all right, this is almost there, but not quite what I want to do. and then I got into with another publishing company and they had a whole kind of homeschool division.
00:07:17
Speaker
And the interesting part was, and it was right when the 2008 crash. So there was a ah lot of white collar individuals were losing their jobs. And I'm talking to the, to these families where, all right, the father may have lost his job.
00:07:35
Speaker
The mother's still working, but they realized that they can pull their kids out of private school and form a network. And so dad maybe was a scientist. So he's teaching sciences. Other person was an accountant. So they're teaching math. So they're pulling these resources together. And that's when it all kind of clicked. It's like, okay, so there's more than just that traditional, what you would call K-12 path.
00:08:01
Speaker
And then... Did that for a while and that's kind of really what drove me into looking for something bigger to provide people access to that non-traditional, which is I think super important.
00:08:17
Speaker
It's interesting you talk about non-traditional, especially in this current moment where there's so much untethering from existing systems, right? The DOE is being undone. Many of these systems and infrastructures that have taken decades to put into place that serve across communities.
00:08:34
Speaker
And it's now sort of forcing a reconciliation about what it means because a lot of that is done to diminish some of the benefits of public education where you created areas of multiplicity. Now it's really starting to target either private ownership or target stuff like religious affiliation and religiously affiliated schools.
00:08:55
Speaker
Are you thinking, just bringing that expertise of having like non-traditional education from the corporate side, and then now you're working in these areas around providing and working with education for those individuals who have experienced incarceration, are you seeing opportunities for transformative education where people may rethink some of these systems so that they do become more representative of how people are able to bring themselves into the room?
00:09:19
Speaker
Is there a desire, and do you see some some some pathway where this becomes more equitable over time?
Success Stories in Prison Education
00:09:26
Speaker
That's a great question. So I work with the state of Massachusetts and every incarcerated individual in a state prison has access to programming 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
00:09:37
Speaker
And when you talk programming, it's not only education. So they have an amazing team that pulls together the understanding where all of the, and they have about 5,500 people in state prisons in Massachusetts.
00:09:55
Speaker
But understanding the spectrum of learning, do you need to go back and understand what the, what letters and numbers are phonetics, to basic math and reading skills. So they create programs and deliver it through the origin platform.
00:10:11
Speaker
And then they actually have live instruction that they can do very similar to what we're doing here through video, but then they take it. Okay. It's great to focus on the education.
00:10:22
Speaker
You have to address the trauma from the past. So what's understanding why you are incarcerated, understanding that you ah have to take ownership of that.
00:10:36
Speaker
Granted, there are some systemic things that could have caused it, but you have to understand that there is, you play a part in that also. And then planning for the future.
00:10:47
Speaker
Maddie mentioned, i think it was Maddie that mentioned about college. we had a generation, almost two generations that we pushed in the post-secondary in the college and university and not into the trades.
00:10:58
Speaker
So there's a huge gap coming and it's coming fast. And so understanding that you can make a great living getting your hands dirty. working on plumbing, working on HVAC mechanics and different things like that.
00:11:15
Speaker
So it's really just trying to, but there are in Massachusetts, they actually have all these different types of simulations to understand what you want to get into. What does it look like to be a HVAC tech?
00:11:30
Speaker
or what does it look like this? And then what is your earning potential? And then they start trying to make the connections post-release. So they have that that kind of warm handoff to whether it's ah an apprenticeship program or actually employment.
00:11:46
Speaker
But then on the flip side, we still very much live you You did the crime, you do the time in some areas. So it's okay. Well, but excuse me. You don't get access to anything unless you can pay for it.
00:11:59
Speaker
And then. So it's the spectrum and you, you can highlight these really powerful programs that are happening and they're seeing the recidivism recidivism rates drop and you're seeing employment gains and you're in, but then you also on the flip side, you can see where individuals just struggle and it's the constant cycle. It's like, all right, you're released. I'll see you back in 60 or 90 days.
00:12:24
Speaker
so But that really underscores it yeah it really underscores that a lot of people aren't really maybe familiar with the impact that that type of education can have on recidivism, right? That that is that providing opportunities for people to have multiple paths forward.
00:12:40
Speaker
Because as you said, many people who have experienced incarceration or other stigmas in society sometimes feel like there aren't opportunities. There's only one path. When they try to go for traditional paths, if you do have previous incarcerated experience, and again, queer people experience this from homophobia and transphobia, people who are incarcerated have histories of incarceration, experience these types of stigmas.
00:12:59
Speaker
And so there's initiatives like Ban the Box and other ones that have really tried to reduce some of the impact of that stigma. But it's it's only so successful, right? It certainly has some success. but it's still a lot of barriers.
00:13:09
Speaker
And so being able to show that programs that give people avenues toward these gaps where there are these employment gaps, that people can be there, but also the education to make sure that people who have experienced incarceration do have opportunities outside of that experience once they once they once they become part of our our larger communities.
00:13:26
Speaker
We're going to take a very short break right now. we're going to come back. This is a great conversation with Adam Henderson. I'm here with my wonderful co-host, Matty Bynum, and we will be back in just moment.
00:13:42
Speaker
All right, and welcome back to Power Beyond Pride. We are sitting here talking with the amazing Adam Henderson. Y'all know I told y'all in the beginning, he is so much more than just the conversation we're having today. He is the sweetest person I think I have met in one of the longest times of my life and hilarious. He he reminds me of someone, not going to name drop, but he reminds me some of someone very, very funny.
00:14:04
Speaker
that I haven't seen in a long time. But anywho, coming back into the conversation, and I'm also phone here with my beautiful co-host, Shane. I can never leave him out. Who's not nearly as funny, so that that's true.
00:14:16
Speaker
was going to say, if I did leave you out, your shirt is so high, yellow, yellow, highlighter yellow, that we would never lose you. And so you will always be with us, no matter where we go. You are the light that's changing in the world. I've come to bed.
00:14:30
Speaker
i Adam, him I want to come back and talk about, you were talking about Massachusetts, and I think that's a beautiful program that they have. But why is that not a a actual national program? Why is that not across the board with all prisons to have a system to help you to come back and acclimate back into life?
Rehabilitation vs. Incarceration Debate
00:14:51
Speaker
That's my goal. A lot of times it comes down to money. And I sit in, I sit in rooms with a lot of very powerful people in government and understanding how, you who I'm sitting across the table from can be a challenge. Understanding, trying to make sure that while I have ah very lofty goals and progressive goals, not the person across the table for me may not.
00:15:20
Speaker
So how do I get them to understand that investing, in a person's life is going to benefit them. So a lot of times it comes down to, I can talk about all the programs and the outcomes and people gaining knowledge and workforce development skills and understanding their trauma and just becoming better humans.
00:15:43
Speaker
But a lot of times it boils down to, right, what do you want on your balance sheet? Do you want somebody that is a liability that's going to cost you anywhere from $65,000 a quarter million dollars a year to house in prison?
00:16:05
Speaker
or do you want to actually spend money and rehabilitate that person and give them an opportunity to be so successful and move them from a liability to an asset on the balance sheet? Because they now become, not only you not have to pay that yearly yearly cost of incarceration, but they're now taxpaying citizens.
00:16:26
Speaker
And not only, and it's interesting, I made that to a comment he to somebody and they're like we don't have state income tax. Okay, you still pay taxes. You have sales tax, you have, you know, tax on all of these different things, but it is, it's, we're seeing change.
00:16:44
Speaker
i was going say it's almost as, because like we were talking during the break, if you go to certain places, especially in the Southern States, it's almost as if they're systematically trying to keep people in prison versus rehabilitating them to bring them out.
00:16:57
Speaker
So in that, and, and, and with that, That segment of incarceration, how do you push back or what can we do to push back to stop things like that?
00:17:08
Speaker
So let's talk about Tennessee. So a very conservative state. we I've worked with the Department of Labor in Tennessee and understanding that They need to provide adult basic education through so that early literacy and numeracy to a high school equivalency, say like GEDs.
00:17:33
Speaker
But so they need that education piece. But then there was the workforce underlay. So the governor, Governor Lee in Tennessee is huge on workforce development.
00:17:46
Speaker
So he greenlit a program for all the county jails to have a unified program through origin to deliver the education and workforce development.
00:17:59
Speaker
And there's about 25 or 30,000 people that cycle through the jail system in Tennessee every year. But when you have huge projects happening like Ford, Blue Evil city in Western Tennessee, where Ford's coming in to build a manufacturing plant, but they are also building the city all around it with all the resources. So you need labor skilled labor to do all of those things.
00:18:26
Speaker
You have the new Nissan football stadium being built. You have all of these different projects and the, the leadership in Tennessee, we're able to see, we have this gap of an, of potential people to work.
00:18:43
Speaker
So I, I was at a conference and somebody gave me a new term instead of second chances. This is now hidden talent. So looking at people that were experienced some type of incarceration, that is hidden talent that is not being counted in the pipeline.
00:19:00
Speaker
But they can now point to we have this population that has just been through electrical programs. We need them here. this This group has just been through IT t programs and we need coders and different things like that.
00:19:15
Speaker
So looking at, that's how a lot of times I have the conversations with more conservative areas that are not willing to really invest that you can labor data is public information.
00:19:28
Speaker
so what do you, you need X thousands of people doing this work by this time. What are you going to do about it? I'm saying with that in mind, when you think about, i guess,
00:19:43
Speaker
Obviously this impacts your workforce and your labor movements. Can you share a bit why queer people might be looking at this with more was Seeing the value of what queer liberation means in this context, because I think a lot of people don't recognize how many people who've experienced incarceration, oftentimes, as you mentioned before, some having to do with systemic reasons, obviously.
Queer Oppression in Prisons
00:20:09
Speaker
There's a lot, there's a strong history of queer people being incarcerated for a variety of contexts. Can you talk a little bit about why queer, our large queer community should be looking at these issues and really doing so with an eye about what it means to think about how we treat those who have, who have been incarcerated and what it means to have that path to, to, to be out in in general populace?
00:20:32
Speaker
There's a huge stigma when somebody reveals that they are incarcerated, they're, they have been incarcerated. Very much so a lot of times when you reveal that you're queer, trans, gay, whatever, there's still a stigma depending on who's in the room.
00:20:53
Speaker
And that is, i try to have navigate some of those conversations when I'm sitting in the room with different people.
00:21:03
Speaker
It can be a challenge at times, but when you're looking at the vast number of people that are currently incarcerated or formerly incarcerated that are queer or even heterosexual or whatever, that whole spectrum, we should all be able to relate to.
00:21:22
Speaker
Cause we all have had a challenge at some point in our lives of based on solely on who we identify as or who we love or who we have in our circles.
00:21:37
Speaker
And it's, I think I think there's a, this may be slightly controversial, but I think there is a, i think there's a level that people reach, whether you're heterosexual, queer, or whatever, that we begin to look down on people that have less than.
00:21:56
Speaker
And I think we're experiencing that in this country right now. And i think we all will benefit across the spectrum to take a step back and say at any wrong decision,
00:22:10
Speaker
That could be me. I think a lot of people forget that. It could be a lot of people are one page one paycheck away from being bankrupt or one medical emergency.
00:22:21
Speaker
I guess that's it brings me to another question that kind of tags on that in the way we talk about individual choice versus systemic oppression. And I'm curious your thoughts on this is because oftentimes when we're talking about incarceration, when we're talking about punitive practices, we're often looking at the conversation solely from you as a human being.
00:22:42
Speaker
have made a poor set of of choices, and therefore this is your personal value system. And society is structured in such a way as to penalize those differently depending on your race, your gender, your age, your they where you live, your education level, all these different things we talk about in terms of privileges. But the punitive system has has as used that over the years, right those distinctions, to then determine what level of of punitive practice they're going to employ. Right. So whether or not somebody is is found carrying ah some marijuana, for example, has just historically and numerically demonstrated the distinctions in that.
00:23:18
Speaker
Do you find in the conversations when you're talking about changes in carceral practice and and and opportunities, there's still this conversation about the system is just fundamentally stacked differently?
00:23:30
Speaker
then we're oftentimes only talking about it as like a personal, this is about a person's value and their choices. And somehow this happens independently, but they don't live within a larger system that fundamentally wants to see that recidivism low.
00:23:43
Speaker
Like that we end up releasing people once they serve their time, they've technically done our our national contracted agreement in terms of what that that that that response to that crime might entail. And then we put them back in a system where there are very few choices. There are very few opportunities. There are very few things. And then we say they were just meant to come back into the prison system where the reality is we haven't really changed any of the system they originally were in in the first place.
00:24:09
Speaker
And so what are the other options? Because you take somebody, for example, who may want to go out into the world with another set of choices, but now their employment choices are limited. They're put out back into the general populace with little access to housing, resources, all these different things. And so it's hard to change that recidivism.
00:24:26
Speaker
And I think for queer people, this is really resonant because a lot of ah trans people of color, a lot of individuals who oftentimes are not able to access family or resources or facing systems that they come into contact with and don't get that opportunity. to Then once they're out of prison or out of jail, if they are, again, put in for a variety of different reasons, none of the systems are set up for that to change.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. And if you're queer trans or depending on your charges, you're now labeled as a sex offender. So that brings a whole nother set of barriers because you can only live within very limited areas.
Tech Innovations in Parole
00:25:08
Speaker
A lot of nonprofits won't help individuals that are registered sex offenders because that limits what else, the other help that they can give to others.
00:25:21
Speaker
That's a huge challenge. they When you talk about being released on parole or you're on probation, the biggest cycle of re-incarceration comes from infractions on parole or probation.
00:25:36
Speaker
It's not that they're going back out to do another crime. a lot of times it's they can't meet their parole officer. They don't have the transportation.
00:25:47
Speaker
They can't afford the fees that they have to pay while they're on parole or probation. They can't, they don't have the family connections to be able to have stable housing. So that's an infraction. So you're going back inside. There's this state of ah Iowa is doing a ah a great program on trying to reduce those infractions by using technology. There's a lot of cornfields in Iowa.
00:26:13
Speaker
So instead of having people drive hours to meet with their parole officers, they're using technology for those live check-ins. Okay. So I'm Shane, I'm randomly going to call you at and see, and make sure that you are actually at work.
00:26:28
Speaker
I need you to fire up your video and turn, spin your phone to make sure that you're where you're supposed to be. And that comes a valid check-in. So looking at doing the same thing, it's,
00:26:43
Speaker
The different definition of insanity, doing the same thing as expecting different outcomes. We're seeing cracks across the country that where states are looking at why are we spending the all of ah all this money and we're not seeing the outcomes that we want or deserve.
00:26:59
Speaker
So they're looking at alternative ways to do it. ah But sex offenders is a huge concern and that is a void that a number of people just don't want to touch.
00:27:10
Speaker
And it's unfortunate because they you can be labeled a sex offender for the most minute ah charge. ah everyone thinks ah Can you talk about that? Because a lot of people don't realize that what can actually get you landed on the sex offenders list.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah, I thank God I grew up in a time where there was not technology because there's no video evidence just urinating on school property.
00:27:39
Speaker
That simple act can len let ah len lead you to the sex offender. I have a friend whose nephew was dating. he was 18, she was 16.
00:27:53
Speaker
Parents were all ah all good, but they got along and everything. ah For whatever reason, they broke up and the parents filed charge statutory rape charges.
00:28:07
Speaker
And that nephew ah actually had to do a time behind the wall is now labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life. Thank you for sharing that. And I think what's really powerful, I think what what you're illustrating too, is that there are real reasons for us to have concerns around sex offenders when we talk about, again, real harms that are done to young people, real harms that are done to people from sexual assault. There's a variety of reasons to do that. But because it's a blanket statement, but it also includes people who are having consensual sex in a park. It includes- exactly Like you said, urination in a public school. It is a broad, like, swath that has major ramifications and very little political courage for any politician to go in and actually try to create more of a variation among these, right? To create a little bit more of a spectrum so that we are talking about something that might, you know, again, somebody who creates a very small infraction, like, again, like urination on ah a public school is... Still not great, but sure, it shouldn't be the labeled the same thing as somebody who's in the Epstein files, right? Like we we need to cross some distinctions about what that is, but culturally, we don't really want to do that. And for queer people, that's really important because so many of these
00:29:19
Speaker
are tied to and and certainly include expressions of sexual identity and and places that historically, you know, and still are at many places criminalized or caused or or could be considered under that criminal code, especially again for our trans community members.
00:29:35
Speaker
Like again, gender expression can be included within that at different points, depending on how it's applied. Obviously even drag queens at one point have been one of the things that was threatened there in some of the codes and some of that conversation publicly in in the last year or so. and we're going to We're going to take another break. This is a really compelling conversation. It's a very deep conversation. When we come back, ah we are going to talk with Adam about one of my... I got to go to his chili lunch show. That was amazing. So i want to talk i want to I want us to talk a little bit about what it means to organize safe spaces and queer spaces sort of among our communities. And then we're going to go into a speed round. So we're going to learn even more about Adam. So... you Join us. I'm here with my amazing ah co-host, Maddie Bynum. We're here for Power Beyond Pride.
00:30:19
Speaker
Check back with us in just a moment.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yes. All right, baby loves. We are back with Power Beyond Pride, one of my favorite places to be in the whole world. I tell you, I love being in the company of such great highlighted people like Shane, who decides to wear bright yellow colors and vices and purples all every day of his life. Like, I love it.
00:30:46
Speaker
I'm a human highlighter. I'm a human highlighter. That's a good thing, because you highlight things in life that need to be pointed out. That's why you like that. Power being a bride. Yes, we love that. Okay. Don't ask me to repeat it because I can't it again.
00:31:03
Speaker
But real quick, before we go into our speed round and talking about chili dinners and being inclusive, I do want to take um a quick moment to point out real quick. We are having a conversation about incarceration. I need people to understand that while this conversation, yes, you may not be incarcerated or someone in your house immediately may not be incarcerated,
00:31:23
Speaker
But one in six people incarcerated are trans. That's 16% of the incarceration public i'm in population. And within the trans population, in there, 47%, one in two of them are Black.
00:31:36
Speaker
That's something that that really bothers our community. Just 40, let me make sure I have this stat correctly because I said it correctly, 33% to 42% of all population incarcerated identify as some form of LGBTQ plus in our community.
00:31:53
Speaker
It's absolutely powerful. And it and it's in it's a important to note when we talk about liberation and queer liberation, we are talking about
Statistics on Queer Incarceration
00:31:59
Speaker
liberation for all. And again, and and Adam, I'd love to hear your thoughts and and in your own queer journey and really kind of your impact as a queer person doing this work, like how how how these organizations really understand that that number and why? And and and how do they how do they see so affirming spaces? Is it ah is an important value for a lot of them?
00:32:22
Speaker
I will say that it again, it depends on where you are in the country. There are. I've been in jails across the country where they've actually created specialized units.
00:32:38
Speaker
So instead of LGBTQIA plus people working in within general, what they call general population, where yeah you're going to have a higher risk of assaults and rape and different things like that, they're creating queer safe units.
00:32:59
Speaker
So if you identify, then you are able to move into those types of units and then you kind of have your own network of safety and resources by individual.
00:33:10
Speaker
There are certain areas, certain states where if you identify as trans based on the talking points or that we see in politics now, that man only wants to go to the women's prison to be closer to women. Well, there's a whole process that we know has to happen before that person moves.
00:33:35
Speaker
And, but we have states that are setting up again, specific areas for that transitional period, providing all the medical care that's needed, the hormone blockers and the hormones that they need to actually make those transitions.
00:33:51
Speaker
and So there are spotlights across the country, but there are still a lot of challenges. And when I'm, when I have the ability, the opportunity to go into a jail or a prison and I get to a chance to interact with the the residents there, it's really powerful. And there's times that the gaydar goes off and you kind of look at wanting to okay, is that person showing any sign of harm?
00:34:19
Speaker
Is that person showing, not that I have a whole lot of pull with the jurisdiction, but I would know the specific people to kind of point out to and say, Hey, you should probably have a conversation and check in with this person.
00:34:35
Speaker
But there are spotlights, but there are way too many challenges ahead. Yeah, I mean, and it differs and the challenge is there isn't a universal response, right? So really depends on the jurisdiction. And as you said, to be in a gender-affirming space, it takes very there are very few systems in the country that will acknowledge that process. Otherwise, many of them go with birth-assigned gender as their yeah as their definition for where those individuals may be. And that can create its own opportunities for harm and violence, depending on- And if you started-
00:35:08
Speaker
If you started your transition prior to incarceration, and so if you ah were born male, but were transitioning to female, you're now housed in a male facility, and then you have to go into protective custody.
00:35:25
Speaker
So you're now limited. You don't get access to programming. ah you' are in You're more than likely locked in your cell 18 to 20 hours a day So you only have a couple of hours to go make a phone call and take a shower and that type of thing. You typically eat your meals in your cell. So there's a whole spectrum of issues that happen. And you want to go to all of that.
00:35:49
Speaker
Let's be honest. If I was to go to a men's prison right now, I'd make jokes that it would be a holiday. I really do. I tell people all the time, honey, you can't, you can't. You can't spoil my good time with that. I'll tell people all the time. I used to make jokes and say, hey send me to prison, honey. It's a vacation. That's a lot of cock and I enjoy all of it. Like little things like that. Those are things that we make fun of and we joke about.
00:36:16
Speaker
But in reality... do I want to sit by myself for 18 hours in a and a five by five sale or a nine by nine sale? already got to eat shit to eat and now going put me in a room by myself. So now I can't even comment about the shitty food with somebody else, you know?
00:36:32
Speaker
I mean, then there's the i mean there's real there's real violence and real assault. There's real reasons to be on. So again, I think this is, again, and and and i know we we'll move on to another topic here in a minute, but it's important to note that there's it's a real it's a real space of violence. There's real there's real repercussions.
00:36:50
Speaker
And a lot of queer people, as we talked about before, should say lot, but a lot A number of queer people who are facing those challenges are doing so in ways that are not related to what we would consider, again, violent assault or criminal. Like the way that they're being entered into the system has to do sometimes with their queerness and just simply an application of homophobia, transphobia, an application of the system that is not inequitable.
00:37:16
Speaker
And I think, you know, that that there's a real reason for people need to think about how they're invested in that type of carceral revision because the systems just aren't aren't aren't good for our communities. They're just not they're just not good.
00:37:29
Speaker
I agree that it's not equitable with the fact that I didn't get to vote cheerleading. from this chili day. We want to talk a little bit about creating community spaces and that what it means to, your work, Adam, every day you get a chance to do some good, really thinking about ways that create opportunities for individuals, but also in your personal life, you've created, I got a chance to go just this last weekend to a chilly afternoon.
Community Building Through Events
00:37:55
Speaker
That was just great. Had a lot of community members from those in the community, but also people outside the community, just really kind of a neighborhood event. And it just got me thinking that was really powerful around what it is to build spaces where we are getting more people to come together with very different lived experiences. And I'd love to hear little bit about the genesis of it. And then again, what brings you joy in that experience? So we call it Chili Fest. my family started it decades ago Pennsylvania.
00:38:23
Speaker
My mom and my stepfather had a rather large piece of property outside of town. I grew up in a small town of less than 500 people. But they had this group of, they had this property and they would do it in October on the first day of squirrel season. Not really sure why, but there was no squirrel in the chili.
00:38:41
Speaker
i say was unfortunate that I was kind of hoping that's where this was going, to be honest. Cornbread and chili, that's a good meal combined. That's fine. I'd eat it. yeah It was, and it was just a kind of like a community event. There was a lot of drinking and drugs and that type of thing going on.
00:39:01
Speaker
ah My stepfather passed away and then my mom was doing it for a little bit. And then we were going to try to do this rotating through the family thing because my brother would maybe do it. I would do it. My cousins or something like that.
00:39:14
Speaker
For the last 10 years or so, i've been the host. So I have, it's about a 30 or 40 gallon cast iron kettle that I cook chili in the backyard.
00:39:26
Speaker
ah on the open fire. And it's the same recipe we've used all these years. And then i just invite people. And Shane got to experience it yesterday. So we had some neighbors and some old neighbors and dear friends from different houses that we lived in in here in Greensboro.
00:39:44
Speaker
And we've had just friends that we've met. So there were a wide range of ages, a big spectrum of personalities. And it was funny. I was talking to one person was kind of like, not really sure where he wanted to go. was his first time here.
00:40:02
Speaker
I was like, if you go, we hosted in the garage in January. So there's a little bit of warmth for the Southerners. And I'm like, if you want to go out to the garage, it's kind of funny that the gays and days are on the left side and the straights are on the right side. but You can go kind of go whatever you just sit, pick up, pick a table. Yeah. So I try to make Sean, Sean's my husband. We both try to.
00:40:26
Speaker
have a few, I won't say lack of a better term, events where we have just invited a group of people to come hang out. ah We do Chili Fest in January, and then we'll do a couple of pool parties here at the house and just bring community and break bread.
00:40:43
Speaker
i think it's important. Yeah. Can you speak to that current moment? What, yeah, what's influencing in the current moment? For me, I need to block out the noise a lot of times. We've stopped watching.
00:40:55
Speaker
we stopped We cut off cable a long time ago. we don't watch TV anymore because i I was being consumed and I realized that all of the negativity was actually weighing on me as a person.
00:41:09
Speaker
So i needed to i need to re-energize and I want to re-energize by having people that I care about across spectrums come and break bread with me.
00:41:23
Speaker
And people are like, that's insane that you had, there were probably 50 plus people here yesterday. And I, all day Friday setting up, I started cooking at 8.30 yesterday morning. And I finally got done cleaning up everything about 9.30 or 10 o'clock last night.
00:41:41
Speaker
But I had the best time. Because I got to bring everyone together and just get hugs and feel the love and being able to just be community.
00:41:55
Speaker
i't say that That's powerful for me. Yeah. You summed it up in one word. That's community. that That love is community. Love is community. And I think people forget that because we went through season, especially of of COVID, where people became very separate. And it's, you know, we yeah need to come back together.
00:42:14
Speaker
We need each other. though Yeah. So I do want to ask one quick question as we wrap up this evening. When you think of those moments of Chile and you think of the community moment, what's a popular song or what's a song that pops in your head that just sets the tone?
00:42:33
Speaker
yeah I'm bad with music. So i my statement is, I don't know music. I don't have rhythm and I can't sing.
00:42:45
Speaker
those genes Those gay jeans skipped me. but So
00:42:51
Speaker
I'll be honest with you. Like this past summer, we had what we call gay pride in Julian. So we have ah just a bunch of people come over and a du big swim party in June.
00:43:03
Speaker
And I put on like Queerity's 2024 summer playlist or something like that. And for me, music's a spectrum. It depends on my mood. You'll, I have to have music in my office where I am now. Just, I can't tell you what's playing, but I have to have that noise.
Power Beyond Pride Reflections
00:43:21
Speaker
But I'll walk in, it's like, all right, today's an hairband day. or today is I need EDM, or I need classic rock, or so it's a spectrum. So I can't name one song, sorry.
00:43:34
Speaker
and that's a long-winded answer. No, it's okay. But it leads us into a good round of of quick Q&A, because now we're goingnna now we're going to throw out some stuff. you can't You can't think about it. You just got to give us your first answer.
00:43:46
Speaker
and we're and And yeah, I'm going to kick in. So, all right. I'm going to start with, what's a book you pretended to be reading or actually loved? So I just read, finished Kamala Harris's 107 days.
00:43:59
Speaker
Absolutely amazing book. Was it not good? Oh my God. Yes. I'm going to see, i got tickets to see her in Greensboro. An amazing book. Now, now Maddie's going to have to sit next to you.
00:44:10
Speaker
know I'm just going to go to my next question. What's your favorite comfort food other than chili that you like at home? Ice cream. Can't go wrong with that. yeahp Any flavor?
00:44:24
Speaker
Usually the higher sugar content, the better. So so you like moose tracks on Rocky. world There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you throw a little extra peanut butter on top and yeah.
00:44:39
Speaker
Now that makes me want to go get some there. all right. The last thing that made you laugh out loud, other than my face. The conversation prior to starting this with Maddie. It was, and it's not a negative thing.
00:44:52
Speaker
Just being able to, I've heard a lot of great things about Maddie, but be actually being able to virtually meet her and connect with her. And i think she is an amazing spirit. I can't wait put my arms around her and give her a big hug.
00:45:05
Speaker
i just want to that I just want to second all of that. All of that. Y'all are some some really sweet, wise asses. I love y'all much.
00:45:19
Speaker
Okay, loah we're we we' cut on time, so I got to keep going. I can't even. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What's one thing people always assume about you that's not true? That I'm straight.
00:45:31
Speaker
Hot damn. Do you love it or do you hate it? I use it to my advantage when I need to, especially in the business world. All right.
00:45:43
Speaker
che boom What is your go-to self-care movie when life is challenging? Still Magnolias. Oh. I wear a size set. All right. It feels so good. I buy a size A Southern Belle out of Pennsylvania. Go, go, go, go get that.
00:46:03
Speaker
Sean and I will actually quote lines to each other at times. so
00:46:08
Speaker
I love it. Okay, what's one line? Give me one line. I want one line. What's your favorite line out of it? I'm going to paraphrase it because I can't remember you're putting me on the spot, but we should sell tesir T-shirts because everyone wants to take a whack at Weezer.
00:46:20
Speaker
I hit Weasel! Yes! I hit Weasel. We're going sell t-shirts. I hit Weasel. Okay, sorry. My wedding colors two beautiful colors or the most beautiful blush and bashful. Her, no, her colors are pink and pink.
00:46:36
Speaker
so Like they sprayed the whole church out with Pepto Bismol. That's what said. Right, exactly. Yeah. Okay, last question. What does power beyond pride mean to you?
00:46:47
Speaker
To me, it... I want to push ah and have the uncomfortable conversations when I'm able to. i want to I recognize my privilege as a white male and I try to i want to make sure that i am clearing the path and opening the door for others.
00:47:12
Speaker
Everybody, i think everybody can look at their history and see that it was not a straight path or there were not rocks in the road, but you need to, you need to respect your history and you need to understand, understand and respect others and the lenses that they bring to where they are today.
00:47:37
Speaker
And I think as a white male, we should be, clearing paths for people to again whatever they deem a success but help them be as successful as they can be and i think white males and this is going to be probably could be controversial or whatnot but i think white males in this country have not done that in historically and it is very powerful to be in a room with
00:48:08
Speaker
a lot of government leaders and try to navigate that conversation. So. Thank you. Well, this so tell us, thank you very much for being here today. And again, thank you for sharing that. Where can people follow you and your work?
00:48:22
Speaker
So I am on LinkedIn, Adam Henderson there. And then we origin.works is the, my, the company that I work for.
00:48:33
Speaker
But I'm always open to have a conversation. feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn and let's try to change the world together. That's awesome. And origin is O-R-I-J-I-N for those of you following that. go work absolutely now it's it's It's fantastic doing incredible work. That's O-R-I-J-I-N dot works. it's ah It's a really great, again, a really great program. I thank you so much for being here, Adam. It means the world. Thank you for having me.
00:49:00
Speaker
Thank you for for sharing your thoughts, sharing this insight. It's incredibly powerful. We hope well help we hope you'll come back and join us again. Happy to. Thanks for having me. I've thoroughly enjoyed you. I do want to say that hug is coming. Most definitely. Yes, sir. With a bowl of chili, hopefully, because I love my chili. okay we got we can make that We can make that work.
00:49:20
Speaker
Amen. I'm right there with I'll bring the cornbread. I got you. I am Maddie Piner, one of your amazing hosts here at the Power Beyond Pride team. And I love doing what I do so that way I can make sure that y'all are staying informed. You can follow me on Instagram at Maddie s Simone 737 or you can follow me on Facebook at Maddie Piner.
00:49:39
Speaker
i am I am the other co-host, Shane Lucas, and you can follow me at agreatidea.com or shanelucas.com. And I'm so glad to be here with both of you today. It just means the world to me.
00:49:51
Speaker
Remember to subscribe and get your friends to subscribe to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our site at powerbeyondpride.com. And Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, a clear-owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at agreatidea.com.
00:50:10
Speaker
This episode is produced by Shane Lucas, that'd be me. Maddie Bynum is the project developer. Our editor is Jared Redding with support from Ian Wilson. Hi, Ian. And we are both part of the podcast awesome team here, me and Shane. And we invite you to send in your questions and comments to powerbeyondpride.com so we can ask them.
00:50:29
Speaker
Check out our new episodes each week. And we look forward to queer changemaking with you next time. Thank you from all of us at Power Beyond Pride.