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Experiences vs Advertising and Why Aston Martin Hasn't Cracked the GCC Market #5
11 Plays15 days ago
Anwar and Moe are back for Episode 5 to discuss Porsche's moves to become an increasingly experience-led brand in the UAE, and whether they think that's more effective than traditional ad-spend.
Also, why isn't Aston Martin more successful in such a luxury-obsessed market?
If you've got feedback, we'd love to hear it. You can reach us at: Gulf.specgcc@gmail.com
Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gulf_spec_podcast/
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Transcript
00:00:03
Anwar
need to do that oh Did you do that?
Listener Growth and Contributor Shoutout
00:00:05
Mohammad Khan
And we're back. um
00:00:09
Anwar
that either, if anyone is tuning in. Hi, how are you? hi how are you
00:00:14
Mohammad Khan
ah option I mean, so um hello to more than our five normal listeners, because I think since the last episode, we've seen we've gotten quite a few more listeners. Thanks, Emtishan.
00:00:27
Mohammad Khan
Even if you were wrong about everything. No, just kidding.
00:00:30
Anwar
We can actually do that the end. Let's do that. let's let's let Let's give you a platform to kind of address that. That's a nice thing to do at the end.
00:00:37
Mohammad Khan
No, no, I think if if anything, we should have a round two with Imtishan to talk about some of those things, you know, now. But
New Car World Updates
00:00:44
Anwar
but what are we talking about today?
00:00:44
Mohammad Khan
I think, I don't know.
00:00:47
Mohammad Khan
know, let's start off with what's what's what's interesting. What's new with you in the car world? You just showed me something.
00:00:53
Anwar
ah What do you mean, the the Hot Wheels?
00:00:55
Mohammad Khan
Yeah. Did you throw it away?
00:00:56
Anwar
I actually... Well, no, actually...
00:00:58
Mohammad Khan
In the past? What? Hmm.
00:01:00
Anwar
No, that's a good point. I think it is kind of a nice segue into what ah what we were talking about on WhatsApp, which is um brands and something we've observed in the Middle East, especially moving away from doing traditional advertising to doing non-traditional activations and specifically experiences.
00:01:19
Anwar
And the the decision to put more budget into, as you said just now, Moe, This little Hot Wheels, which is a special promotion with Porsche. They've made this Hot Wheels. It's very nice.
00:01:30
Anwar
ah These little things and specifically like activities or experiences that people can do. We were talking about Driven.
00:01:41
Anwar
We were talking about that new Porsche farm place. You mentioned Ferrari was doing a few different things. Experiences over traditional advertising and it being a very popular thing and becoming more popular in the region.
00:01:54
Anwar
Right? Is that
Prototype Racing and Brand Identification
00:01:55
Anwar
a good intro? i think it's okay.
00:01:56
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, mean, first of all, i'm going to point out my own ignorance on prototype racing, because when you showed me that, I didn't realize that was a Porsche. I thought that was a Toyota. So, um um all right.
00:02:05
Anwar
Oh, bad.
00:02:07
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, I do road cars, not race cars. That's where I'm at. I can tell you all about, I have started being able to identify Chinese cars. Very proud of that. um But I think, yeah, that's a good that's a good lead in. um I think there's there's there's I don't think it's just regional as well.
Decline of Auto Shows
00:02:23
Mohammad Khan
Right. Like we've largely seen the demise of the auto show. And what have people moved to from that? Right. You've seen the move to like more brand exclusive experiential things. if Correct me if I'm wrong.
00:02:36
Anwar
now yeah Pebble Beach is now, and that whole like week is the space where a lot of premium manufacturers are showing off their product and flying in actual regional ah influences from the Gulf to that event.
00:02:49
Anwar
and And the other one I think actually is a good ah good example, what you just said now is Goodwood. Goodwood, same thing.
00:02:54
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:02:55
Anwar
A lot of manufacturers are flying in people and that has now become the British Motor Show, whatever you want to call it. and and And they openly admit it too. And that's because it's an experience rather than just being a traditional motor show.
00:03:07
Mohammad Khan
you
00:03:07
Anwar
Sorry, go ahead.
00:03:07
Mohammad Khan
You you know know, like literally half an hour before we started, ah you jumped onto this, I had seen an Instagram story from, what's her name? Laura, the the the French influencer?
00:03:19
Anwar
um frick baby Yeah. Yeah.
Experiential Marketing Importance
00:03:21
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, um that's UAE based. I think she was jumping on a plane to go to Alula for a Mercedes event. So, you know, there there is, I mean, that is, I guess, perhaps it's a press event, you know, that press events have existed since the dawn of time, Dishan told us, but, you know.
00:03:34
Anwar
yeah
00:03:37
Mohammad Khan
I think there is that experiential thing. So let's let's okay, why don't why don't you kick off with I think you wanted to start off the topic with driven because this started a while ago with a few weeks ago before I got insanely busy with that conversation, because I have a lot to say about um driven and a contrasting experience and complimentary experiences as well.
'Driven by Porsche' in Dubai
00:03:57
Anwar
Yeah, so...
00:03:57
Mohammad Khan
but like but Hold on, before we do that, why are why are manufacturers doing this?
00:04:00
Anwar
so
00:04:02
Mohammad Khan
Why do we think they're moving away from traditional ad spend towards experiential?
00:04:08
Anwar
let's Let's define what this driven thing is for people that might not know.
00:04:11
Mohammad Khan
thank you
00:04:11
Anwar
And then through that, we can answer that question because i think it's a good example to... Yeah, go
00:04:15
Mohammad Khan
And specifically, we're talking about driven by Porsche in blue waters in Dubai, not the driven location in Abu Dhabi, not the original one that's not brand affiliated.
00:04:20
Anwar
Yes.
00:04:25
Anwar
Yes. so ah So as as you know, I used to live in the region, used to live of in Dubai for a long time, moved to Germany and surprise, surprise, in a marketing calendar, and this was for 75 years of Porsche, they had a calendar for all global events. And one thing that was on that calendar was icons, but also Driven.
00:04:42
Anwar
Driven, as Mo said, is a brand of car cafe in the UAE. And its Dubai branch has now um become the de facto...
00:04:53
Anwar
um Porsche coffee space. It's got food, it's ah like a place that you can meet, they host a lot of events there, but it is officially sanctioned and like on the global marketing calendar.
00:05:02
Mohammad Khan
Oh,
00:05:09
Anwar
so And as you said as well, this isn't something that they kind of overtook it. They took it, they created it they created a brand or they took a brand in the UAE and then rubber stamped it with the Porsche thing. That's what Driven is. It's a space that has food, drink, they've got Porsche merch, they do special events, people do you know ah meet and greets there.
00:05:29
Anwar
And actually what's interesting is it's become a space for me to meet you and friends when I come into the region because it's kind of ah easy to access. And I remember meeting quite a few people there. ah Interesting anecdote, Sid, who we might have to have on this podcast as well.
00:05:45
Anwar
I went with him last time and he made a really interesting point because I i asked him like, what what what is this for? Like, who is this for? And he said, listen, the Porsche world is big, but it's also very varied.
00:05:58
Anwar
ah And there are the little micro niches in the community four ah for Porsche. There's the Cayenne guys, there's the GT3 RS track people, then there's the Targa people, then there's the PTS, what cool I can't remember.
00:06:13
Anwar
ah You've got all these different tribes within this.
00:06:15
Mohammad Khan
It's a perfect word. ah
00:06:19
Anwar
um
Community Engagement and Criticism of 'Driven'
00:06:20
Mohammad Khan
it's a problem I like purple car. That's a quote from previous episode.
00:06:20
Anwar
But the interesting different, and it's ah one of one purpose.
00:06:28
Anwar
um But he made a good point, which is that like a brand like Porsche has an ability to pull in everyone to one space and allow people to cross pollinate. And it's not necessarily that you stick to this space and this community event.
00:06:42
Anwar
You might then find people that you are similar with and then go to do your own thing. But as a umbrella, it's quite nice because only Porsche has the power to pull people together.
00:06:48
Mohammad Khan
Hmm.
00:06:52
Anwar
and it's the same thing he said about icons. And those are two examples, as you said mo earlier. of brands and specifically a very big brand like Porsche deciding to invest more money into creating spaces for community, doing these kinds of activations, events, ah rather than doing more traditional advertising.
00:07:11
Anwar
And I think that's an interesting trend. ah And what what I say is traditional advertising is ah outdoor press, ah TV, that stuff is becoming less and less popular.
00:07:24
Anwar
And I think it's because they just see more potential to create a brand, an ROI, to be honest. I'd love to find numbers. If we could find someone in the region, actually, that has media numbers, that would be cool. But clearly the brands are seeing a lot more potential in that.
00:07:41
Anwar
and
00:07:41
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:07:41
Anwar
Potential to create increase in brands, ah doing special things with influencers, I can imagine. There's just a lot more opportunity in with these spaces. That's my intro. I hope that's okay.
00:07:52
Anwar
Yeah, please, you thought...
00:07:52
Mohammad Khan
So but like I think that's that's very interesting framing. I'm going to nitpick a little bit and just say the one really important thing that I think you personally missed about um Driven is the actual cars on display, right?
00:07:57
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:08:01
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:08:04
Mohammad Khan
That they're at any given point, there are three two or three cars on display inside.
00:08:04
Anwar
Yeah. Read. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:08:09
Mohammad Khan
This is three. Yeah, yeah. No, um I was forgetting that there's two downstairs. I couldn't remember. I knew the one upstairs because that's usually the coolest one in my opinion. Yeah.
00:08:16
Anwar
And it's stuff like this. You've always got something like that. Look at it. Just a hand to wear out.
00:08:19
Mohammad Khan
So so what's yeah what's interesting is those are either owners from ah the community, those are cars from the community, or they are in the most interesting times, they were cars on display on loan from the Porsche Museum.
00:08:26
Anwar
Yeah.
00:08:35
Mohammad Khan
So I think that's happened at various points.
00:08:35
Anwar
Correct.
00:08:37
Mohammad Khan
Now, can I get into my criticism and counterpoint to a certain extent, right?
00:08:43
Anwar
Sure.
00:08:44
Mohammad Khan
of driven by the theory is that, okay, so I didn't, and i will I'll start this off by saying I didn't see it quite the same way you did about bringing the the the converted together, right?
00:08:44
Anwar
It's all the minutes. Yeah.
00:08:56
Mohammad Khan
The Porsche faithful. I saw it.
00:08:58
Anwar
And that was, to be honest, i want to credit the man.
00:08:59
Mohammad Khan
we'll
00:09:00
Anwar
he It was an interesting conversation i with Sid because he's in that scene. So thank you, Sid.
00:09:03
Mohammad Khan
um so qualify that Sid said this and not you. um
00:09:06
Anwar
Yes.
00:09:07
Mohammad Khan
So Sid, you're wrong. um And then... ah ah But no, you're not. i like We're exploring this thing, this topic without him. But the I think what's what I thought of it as more was this is advertising to convert the uninitiated.
00:09:24
Mohammad Khan
This is, you know, people that don't care about cars or don't care about Porsche could potentially come to a cafe space instead of a dealer or a track day or a motor show, which is dying um as ah as an event. Motor shows, that I'll get into that point later, I suppose.
00:09:42
Mohammad Khan
but um But they can come, this is a low barrier of entry, something interesting for them to do with the kids on the weekend or come in as a tourist or whatever. And it becomes a conversion point for them where they're like, okay, now I'm interested in Porsche um as a result.
00:09:58
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:09:59
Anwar
So it's little intimidation space,
Comparison with Cafe Rider and Other Spaces
00:10:01
Anwar
you're saying?
00:10:01
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, so rather than rather than but spending money on out-of-home advertising or influencers or whatever, what you've done is you've created this cafe space um which which then will appeal will hopefully broaden the appeal of your brand to people that perhaps would not have paid attention before. You're reaching them in a different way. It's a different media vehicle effectively, right?
00:10:25
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:10:26
Anwar
Yeah, so that's a good point. That's a different audience than I was talking about. And that makes it stronger. So I'm i'm still waiting to find out why you don't like it
00:10:33
Mohammad Khan
Well, i think i thought when they bring I think when they bring the vehicles um over from the museum for loan, it's very interesting. I come there and meet with you specifically because as somebody coming from Abu Dhabi, it's very easy for me to access as opposed to going further into the city because I refuse to put put up with device traffic anymore. Like, I will not. Absolutely not. You know, there's a reason I don't live there.
00:10:57
Mohammad Khan
But... um But I think as a whole, the place leaves me cold. it leaves It's hollow to me. There's a few different cars there from the community that I may or may not care about, that I may or may not be able to see in the street.
00:11:15
Mohammad Khan
It's in a very like, influencey, and maybe this is why it's not marketed towards me. it's the The food is okay for how much it costs. ah The coffee's nice, I suppose, but there's nothing really significant about the space, the locations, and this kind of, like, influencer kind of, influence and influencers in the wild kind of area where nothing else really seems to work well, like, you know, um...
00:11:40
Mohammad Khan
um Yeah, and I'm just i'm just i'm just questioning um whether it was the best whether it's the best approach. um Because, like, yes, I know they have artwork. to have this really tiny space for merch.
00:11:55
Mohammad Khan
um But that's it. It's really just... It feels like a soulless cafe writer.
00:12:01
Mohammad Khan
Cafe writer...
00:12:01
Anwar
But you've been Singapore, right?
00:12:03
Anwar
And you saw a better version of that. is it in Singapore or is it Malaysia? I forgot.
00:12:08
Mohammad Khan
Yeah. But like me, let me bring in the cafe rider element.
00:12:09
Anwar
Yeah.
00:12:12
Mohammad Khan
Cafe rider is very well established um within the enthusiast community. It is motorcycle focused, but I think everyone that's a petrol head has been there or needs to go there.
00:12:23
Mohammad Khan
It lives, it breathes because it is a workshop as well. They create custom bikes there. Um, And it's not a corporate, right? it was It was created by somebody that actually cared about this. And that's if I look at the aesthetic of Driven by Porsche and Blue Waters, and Cafe Riders in El Cus, it's where all the workshops are for cars and stuff, and the even the location.
00:12:47
Mohammad Khan
It's very organic in a way, right? Like, it seems real. um if
00:12:50
Anwar
But it's no longer popular. And I think it's an interesting, like, it's a bit of a
00:12:54
Mohammad Khan
i I mean, i'm not I'm not up to what the cool kids do in Dubai anymore.
00:12:58
Anwar
Yeah,
Lifestyle Dealerships and Brand Integration
00:13:01
Anwar
it's specifically in Dubai, the world has kind of moved on. And I think what's interesting with it is because, as you said, Cafe Rider was a bike-focused place, and the car community was honestly always bigger than the bike community ah in the in in the city, and they needed a space, and they kind of split off.
00:13:06
Mohammad Khan
so sound
00:13:20
Anwar
And I feel like ah Cafe Rider is really an example of like prototype that that's been abandoned.
00:13:23
Mohammad Khan
the space then driven But sorry, I cut you off because your your thing is choppy, but...
00:13:29
Anwar
Sorry,
00:13:31
Mohammad Khan
I was saying that is is has Driven become that de facto space? Because I feel like it's more, I would say it's 512.
00:13:37
Anwar
Well, that's...
00:13:38
Mohammad Khan
Yeah,
00:13:39
Anwar
100%, that's flat 12. um and That's even further...
00:13:44
Mohammad Khan
yeah, no, keep going, sorry.
00:13:46
Anwar
No, no, that's fine. Sorry, and there is a delay. Yeah, that's even further in the city, but that... As a person who now views the the scene through the Instagram, ah the number of times, I think it just Imtisham, actually, it was his, I see these big community events at Flat 12.
00:14:01
Anwar
Flat 12 for cars is now what Cafe Rider had become by accident because there was no other space for it and the community saw it.
00:14:12
Anwar
But that's not, I don't think, I don't want to get too lost in the weeds with specific example.
00:14:15
Mohammad Khan
So
00:14:17
Anwar
Tell me about what you think.
00:14:18
Mohammad Khan
that's what I'm saying. I think the whole driven concept leaves me hollow. I don't see where the conversion goes. It doesn't make me, for example, even as an enthusiast, more likely to buy a Porsche. Seeing that does nothing. It's just an easy point for me to get to, and you like going there. So this is 100%. I there because you. don't care for the place. But...
00:14:39
Mohammad Khan
and don't care for the place you know um but What I did see in Singapore, um I was there with a friend of mine that actually works at Porsche Consulting.
00:14:50
Mohammad Khan
um And he's a big Porsche fan as well. And he he said, Mo, I've seen this place. Let's go get breakfast there. So we went with another friend of ours one morning in Singapore. And um there was, i can't i can't, is it just their main dealership? I don't know, right? Like that's, I don't know enough about the place.
00:15:09
Mohammad Khan
It is.
00:15:11
Anwar
Yeah, that has this other space attached. Yeah.
00:15:14
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, so so it was, first of all, like many things Porsche, it's architecturally very cool. um It's a very cool looking structure, um both inside and out.
00:15:25
Mohammad Khan
And it's connected to ah an office space, which I would say ah like large office towers, which are full of finance bros or like your target audience, really, for Porsche, right?
00:15:37
Mohammad Khan
Guys that...
00:15:37
Anwar
Mm-hmm. ah still it's yuppies it might have like we might use the term but it's just the yuppies now have gilets but they're still yuppies
00:15:39
Mohammad Khan
Huh? Yeah.
00:15:47
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, so like it's in the right spot, clearly. It looks correct. And when you go in, the the food is not the overwhelming part of it. There is something called the Carrera Cafe there. They do some like croissants and... um whatever the hell else, not like full meals, like driven and they do some nice coffee and whatever, but it feels more like an extension of type seven, right. And the extent where it's, it's, it captures more of the overall lifestyle. Like for example, you know, I've learned from my wife who's big into scents that like they had things like diptyques candles there, which is kind of, it, it,
00:16:22
Mohammad Khan
fits into that overall lifestyle. They've got a kid's play place, which is Porsche themed. They've got like, you know, all these books and stuff, which may or not necessarily may or may not necessarily be ah about Porsches. They might be about connected themes, like for example, like architecture or design or um history or whatever the hell else.
00:16:43
Mohammad Khan
But more importantly, the cars that are on display are not behind a glass case and are not unattainable. They're for sale. You can buy those cars. The merch space is more generous. You can actually go there, shop around, browse and pick up something nice. I like, I picked up a souvenir sticker, which unfortunately I've now lost, but, um, whatever.
00:17:04
Mohammad Khan
Um, The, um yeah, so like i see the path to conversion, right? Like I go in there, I experience i go down there for a coffee or a thingy and I'm like, okay, this is nice. I'm influenced by the type of person that comes in, you know, like, okay, these are these are like influential or businessy type people that afford these cars and are buying these cars.
00:17:27
Mohammad Khan
I can see, I can interact with these cars. I can schedule a test drive. I can buy it. You know, all of that. It's not just like a a warehouse in the middle of like a random location with some Porsche art thrown around.
00:17:39
Mohammad Khan
it
00:17:39
Anwar
but i think
00:17:40
Mohammad Khan
It feels like an extent, a much better extension of the brand. And i can I can actually buy the car there if I want to.
00:17:47
Anwar
i think these i think they I think what we're doing, though, is we've got like a category error. I feel like it's like apples and oranges. I think what what you're describing is ah a new way of thinking about a dealership, whereas I feel like Driven is something different. It is a community space, and it's not it's intentionally not hosting ah new cars.
00:18:10
Anwar
and I just want to add something to what you're saying now. ah is it i know It's not NIO. What's the name of that ah Chinese car brand that you lease cars through? um you remember
00:18:21
Mohammad Khan
blink Lincoln. Yeah.
00:18:22
Anwar
Lincoln Co. Lincoln Co here in my city in Düsseldorf have a very, very similar style dealership to what you just said now. um And it's and it's ah a different way of viewing a dealership. it's And it sounds a lot more like what you were saying with Singapore.
00:18:40
Anwar
um and And I think... those two things aren't the same and they can coexist if you know mean. And I completely agree with everything you said about how good that is, but that's also, I think the the the rise of experience informing everything to do with buying a car, including the dealership.
00:18:48
Mohammad Khan
yeah
00:18:59
Anwar
You don't just want to go into a space and kick tires and you want to have a place that you can sit down, have a coffee. Like I can buy socks from a Lincoln Co dealership. Socks?
00:19:08
Mohammad Khan
So I live across, I get you because I live across the street from ah a Neo house, as I've mentioned a few times.
00:19:08
Anwar
Yeah. like well yeah
00:19:17
Anwar
yeah
00:19:18
Mohammad Khan
And it's made me see the brand in a very different light than the way I would see most traditional EV manufacturers or whatever. It just, it makes the cars very cool. And I mean, I think the only disappointing part is they've got a lot of merch on display, which you can't actually buy, which is frustrating.
00:19:33
Mohammad Khan
I'm like, why it here if I can't buy it? But I think they'll cross the bridge someday.
00:19:36
Anwar
But that's I think there's a transition. I think they still don't know yet how to be ah more driven space. And they're still trying to be a traditional dealership.
00:19:48
Anwar
And like I can imagine their inventory, their systems are still set up to sell cars and not be a place to sell copies and socks and model cars.
00:19:49
Mohammad Khan
nothing
00:19:58
Mohammad Khan
No, you can, I mean, I've worked from there before. I've taken Hashim there for a coffee before as well. Who's another person we need to talk to at some point, but, um, I think they've worked out the coffee shop part. I just don't know why they're not selling merchandise, but let's not get into the weeds about that. I think you're right. There are two different concepts. I just don't see the community part, maybe because I'm not part of the Porsche community, or maybe because I don't really, i don't think I really engage with car communities on a whole. I find them boring.
00:20:24
Mohammad Khan
um the um I don't, especially single make communities. So I don't think I see the point of Driven. I think I get it as an introduction to Portia. It's ah for the uninitiated.
00:20:39
Mohammad Khan
um So, for example, it's a good place for somebody to drop by, get a coffee, maybe have a snack, and they're like, oh, I'd never considered buying a Porsche before, but this makes it cool.
00:20:42
Anwar
or
00:20:51
Mohammad Khan
But I feel like they they could be doing more or better with that space.
00:20:51
Anwar
what like
00:20:55
Anwar
Yeah, and and at all, like I've just bought one and it's not just a mobility appliance, but it's a like could part of my identity and I can become like part of a community.
00:21:07
Anwar
You roll your eyes, but like that's the the appeal. um What's called?
00:21:11
Mohammad Khan
So
00:21:11
Anwar
There's question from Porsche that the last car that will ever be sold is a sports car. It's because it's not an appliance. And that's what I think Porsche's maybe doing wrong at the moment. I need to be careful.
00:21:22
Anwar
Um, but I think moving into being too much of a mobility appliance takes away the specialness and like every Porsche that you drive should be welcome at that kind of space, because i think that's been the secret to these cars all along that they haven't been just mobility, but they've been a car you can live with every day, but is something a bit more special. It's an experience machine.
00:21:43
Anwar
Um, do you want to talk about some other examples as well? Cause I think the Ferrari one you talked about quite good.
00:21:47
Mohammad Khan
with what you're saying here, I'm gonna connect it to a different example, is that like if I am ah an owner, a new owner or whatever, i don't, I personally, if I bought a 911, I would not show up at Driven and like park it there and be like, ah, cool, I'm an owner now, you know, like that that makes no sense to me.
00:21:51
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:22:07
Mohammad Khan
Like, I just wanna stay away from those people. What does make sense to me is the is the farmhouse thing they're doing now. So this idea that they've set up this, like, what is it? This glamping setup, it looks like, where you, it's an experiential thing that you book with the brand where you can now drive your Porsche out, regardless of which one it is. I've seen like, um I think I've seen electric, ah what do we call them? Macans in the the marketing videos, regardless of what, um,
00:22:37
Mohammad Khan
ah Porsche you have, you can go out on this nice drive with Porsche, with other nice Porsche owners and experience the Porsche lifestyle. You know what I'm saying?
00:22:46
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:22:47
Mohammad Khan
Like this, this whole glamping thing, being in the outdoors, there's an element of luxury with there because let's, let's not forget that Porsche does ultimately, it is, it is a premium product, right? So they need to portray that as well. They can't just put people in tents in the desert um or can they?
00:23:04
Mohammad Khan
um um
00:23:06
Anwar
Not those people. They still do that for Le Mans, for example, but they're still like a... they' Actually, Le Mans is a good example. um They put on... They had a partnership with a hotel chain that did specific glamping experiences at Le Mans because...
00:23:21
Mohammad Khan
But black not like tense, you know? Yeah.
00:23:24
Anwar
It was tents. They were tents, but they were fancy tents. And you got like slippers, slippers and like robes and shit.
00:23:26
Mohammad Khan
Okay. Yeah.
00:23:31
Anwar
And ah yeah, but even but even but even that side of the f the the track enthusiast, if you're at Le Mans, you know, you're there for a reason. ah Even they were like, you need to Porsche-fy it a little bit.
00:23:43
Anwar
um
00:23:43
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:23:44
Mohammad Khan
And then there's...
00:23:44
Anwar
But yeah.
00:23:46
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:23:46
Mohammad Khan
Sorry, then there's the, um there's icons of Porsche, which is, Porsche, sorry.
Icons of Porsche Event Success
00:23:52
Mohammad Khan
um Icons of Porsche. But there's, a look we can't we can't not talk about that, right? This is, I think it has become one of the family events um in Dubai.
00:24:05
Mohammad Khan
It's relatively affordable.
00:24:06
Anwar
once
00:24:07
Mohammad Khan
It's a good day out, huh?
00:24:09
Anwar
What is it first? Just just so we can like set the...
00:24:11
Mohammad Khan
ah It it is I think, what is it? Is it a full day or multi-day experience of one full day, pretty much?
00:24:18
Anwar
It's a weekend. Yeah.
00:24:19
Mohammad Khan
hu
00:24:20
Anwar
It's a weekend, can two days. so
00:24:22
Mohammad Khan
Oh, yeah, right. It is two days. Okay, cool. So it's a weekend where it starts at about in in the early afternoon and goes on till fairly late in the evening. um And it is a display of a bunch of community cars. It is new cars. It's electric. It's heritage. It's motorsports.
00:24:41
Mohammad Khan
It's everything in between that is Porsche. And... It's everything from like a 911 plushie for a baby to, you know, um the latest hybrid racing tech for people that care about that stuff. It is the video games and everything. It is the cult of Porsche in a way, you know.
00:25:01
Mohammad Khan
um But the interesting thing about it, didn't enjoy it. i went only there because I only went there because i think it was you were in town. And it was a good, um, it was a good way to get all our boys together in one spot, which good, you know, uh, good for us.
00:25:18
Mohammad Khan
We managed it once that last year. That was amazing. Um, but, uh, personal note, um,
00:25:23
Anwar
Then it did its job. But like, I think what I want to say is that ah with an event like that, not all of it will be for everybody. And if it's a space for you you to meet your friends, then it kind of did its job.
00:25:35
Anwar
Do you know what I mean?
00:25:36
Mohammad Khan
um but met you anywhere else, guys. But like i think I think while I didn't enjoy it, I fully, unlike Driven, I fully respect that it is effective.
00:25:46
Mohammad Khan
I think it serves as ah much this event and the way they've promoted it and the way it's become such a mainstream thing. Tickets are selling out. You can pre-book them. I'm getting ads every day to buy them at this point um for the for the upcoming edition.
00:26:03
Mohammad Khan
And it's just like... You've really hit a chord when you're getting people. My my wife came to this. she You know she cares zero about cars. like In fact, she gets annoyed if I take her to car events, but she was willing to come to this because there was enough hype about it. She'd heard enough that you know from her other non-car friends about it to be interested.
00:26:23
Mohammad Khan
um And I think that's what's interesting that's what's really good about that is they've managed to bring everyone together at a single brand event. That's unheard of for me. it's just like, who cares about your brand event? Even as an enthusiast, I don't care about your brand event, right? like But Porsche has somehow done that. They've made everyone care.
00:26:43
Mohammad Khan
And they've made that a central...
00:26:43
Anwar
It's like,
00:26:45
Mohammad Khan
event on the family calendar for the year for many people. So I think it's, you know, that is effective branding. That is, I think a much better, as we discussed earlier, much better their ROI on this is likely much better than spending on billboards or magazines or influencers or any of the, I mean, not to say that they've not had to spend on those things in parallel as part of the campaign for this, but um' I'm guessing the ah ROI on making keeping Porsche a household name, making them an aspirational brand, all of this, you know, making them not, and not just for us, but for generations to come that that's where I think they really hit the mark there with that.
00:27:23
Mohammad Khan
um So
00:27:23
Anwar
Yeah. Imagine imagine baby Mo or tea like 10 year old Mo um going to an event like this.
00:27:29
Mohammad Khan
that
00:27:30
Anwar
able to
00:27:30
Mohammad Khan
and he loved it. Mahmoud's kid loved it.
00:27:33
Anwar
yes Yeah, that's my point. like um It feels like a really great way to make people fall in love with your brand in the future. I think we both come from a generation where that happened through video games.
00:27:47
Anwar
um I have a collection of cars, owned different cars um from a non-traditional advertising source, which was how many cars were in you know video games when i was growing up. ah that's not as big anymore.
00:27:59
Anwar
I don't think it's not as specifically unique, but I feel like these kinds of events are an opportunity for kids to start, you know, they they used to be say driven by dreams, but to to get kids to dream about owning these cars, what kind of a fantastic event would let it like, it just feels like a great space to get a kid to say one day and recreating that ad.
00:28:19
Anwar
Do you remember the, the very famous
Nostalgia for Traditional Car Shows
00:28:21
Anwar
Porsche ad? I think it was 20 years ago now where the kid goes into.
00:28:23
Mohammad Khan
Oh, God. Yeah, it's not that was a five-minute long ad, and I've watched it so many times in my life. It's right up there with this like Nike running ad, one of my favorite, favorite pieces of advertising work because the insight is real.
00:28:35
Anwar
What is it? Let's for for people that might not know, do you want to describe the ad?
00:28:42
Mohammad Khan
Basically, there is a kid. He's sitting in class doodling cars, effectively a 911-ish shape. He sees a 911 drive outside. you know The kids and the teacher make fun of him like, what are you paying attention to or pay attention in class or whatever? And you know this kid after class jumps on his bike, rides over to the Porsche dealership and... um He's greeted by the salesman who shows him around the 997, think. Yeah, it was the 997 Carrera.
00:29:12
Mohammad Khan
And um basically, the this when it he shows him around the car and everything. And when the kid's all done, he's like, I'll see you in about 15 years or 20 years or whatever it is, right? And guess the...
00:29:22
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:29:23
Mohammad Khan
the the i guess the The voiceover is so powerful too, right? Like there's the moment you first realize you want to own a Porsche and the decade or so in between before and for the yeah the truly afflicted or whatever, the the decade or so that passes in between before you actually own one.
00:29:40
Mohammad Khan
And then 911 Carrera, the purest expression of who we are, right? like Also why I love the Carrera more than any other car they make. But yeah.
00:29:48
Anwar
But that's my point that like to go back to cold hard facts about ah ROI, I wonder if an ad like that today wouldn't have as much impact as it did then because it was just less media. But to give kids the experience of actually sitting in cars and then like seeing the funfair that is that kind of you know event, it feels like that will happen much more often.
00:30:10
Anwar
And it will happen through like, it's like how it's, it's it's actually genius. How do you get to give thousands of people the experience to get their kid to sit in a car like that, record it on their phones and then have individualized rep, like almost like one-to-one replicas of those experiences.
00:30:29
Anwar
You do it there, right? Cause there's the lights, there's this, there's this, it's a fun fair. This isn't like a ah boring stayed car show. It's ah it's a fun fair.
00:30:40
Mohammad Khan
the Yeah, and you know with the ad, there's there's a disconnect, right? like You see that, and then you know at least when i when that ad first came out, I must have been what a freshman in college um or university, and i if I went down to the dealer, they'd just be like, ha, ha, ha.
00:30:57
Mohammad Khan
Apoor, you know, like something like that and probably wouldn't pay me much attention or let me get around the car whatever. Whereas here is the brand itself filtering all that nonsense out saying, here, play with the cars, be the aby in the ad, um which is, you know, I mean, now maybe it's easy for me to be a bit more cynical now that I've actually driven various Porsches and like, um,
00:31:11
Anwar
Yes.
00:31:22
Mohammad Khan
you know, explored owning them, driven friends Porsches. It's a bit different now. But I guess if you were that kid and there's that, you know, there's that disconnect um between actually wanting to get around one, ah what better place, right? Like, what was it, like 25 dirhams a ticket or something? I can't remember, but it's less than 100 dirhams I remember.
00:31:40
Anwar
But also like, how do you do that year round? You have a space like the one in Singapore, like you were saying, maybe not driven, but there are other brands that do this. It feels like that's something now that is done all the time, right?
00:31:54
Mohammad Khan
Yeah. Like Neo House, when you walk into the front door of Neo House, you know what's there? That crazy electric supercar that they've made. Hypercar that they've
00:32:02
Anwar
they it's They had it here too. And it's such a, like a big draw.
00:32:07
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, kids are all over it. Like I see them on Friday after school running running in their school uniforms and stuff to go see and take pictures of that car as opposed to, you know, like not going to go look at the Neo ET5 station wagon. like That's when they're 40, not the hyper car is what they want now.
00:32:25
Mohammad Khan
But I think Ferrari's got a different approach to this, don't they?
00:32:25
Anwar
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:27
Mohammad Khan
Right? Like because we've seen some stuff with them. um And I think that's what separates, that all has always separated Porsche from Ferrari is that Porsche is more democratized in a way. It almost seems attainable where Ferrari makes no illusion of trying to be attainable. They are not for everyone and they don't want to be.
00:32:47
Mohammad Khan
And that's what makes everyone want them in a way. But, um, But I think they've got this whole, like, um what is it? We saw a luxury, like, resort experiences where you can ah book in, like, a Ferrari resort day where you can, like, drive the cars and, like, you can you get sold a bunch of stuff. I don't know. Like, I was um i haven't explored that fully, but it seems a very, very different proposition to what someone like Porsche or Nioh is doing.
00:33:17
Anwar
Well, I think actually, no, ah to to that point, Porsche does exactly the same thing with their cars as well, specifically the GT cars. Here in Europe, they do a lot of like experiences for owners. So what's interesting is I think in the past, and it's been going for a long time, the relationship would end once you own the car.
00:33:34
Anwar
And I think what the brands are trying to do now is to keep you in their world and to give you an opportunity to not just buy a car, but buy something in a different frame, to buy a lifestyle, to buy into something like that. And to also, as CRM, um keep you in their fold and keep you you know ah enjoying your the thing that you've sold. So they haven't sold you when they've sold the car. They'll continue you know doing things for you. And that's a new way of you know trying to sell cars. And I think it's been, as you said, effective.
00:34:07
Anwar
um I wonder...
00:34:07
Mohammad Khan
i think I'm going one more point to this, and I think this is all I really have left to say about this, is that um I think this experiential thing, um whether it's a dealership or an event or a cafe,
00:34:24
Mohammad Khan
seems to go hand in hand with the demise of the motor show, right? Because um i didn't I didn't come up, I didn't become interested in cars because of video games.
00:34:34
Mohammad Khan
I'm a little older than you, if you remember this.
00:34:37
Mohammad Khan
And that makes enough sense. Huh?
00:34:37
Anwar
you're like two years older than me.
00:34:40
Anwar
That's two years older than
00:34:41
Mohammad Khan
I think it difference um that I, like, what's it called?
00:34:43
Anwar
Okay.
00:34:44
Mohammad Khan
I got access to Gran Turismo and stuff like that when I was a bit older than you. Or maybe I just didn't necessarily have the hardware or whatever it was. My entry point into cars, and I still have a photo of it somewhere. Maybe we can throw it up on our Instagram if we ever decide to do anything with that. um is and There's a photo of me at the Jetta or Riyadh Auto Show, probably Jetta, with um and standing next to a Testarossa.
00:35:09
Mohammad Khan
um And that's...
00:35:11
Anwar
Oh, I the picture.
00:35:13
Mohammad Khan
Huh?
00:35:13
Anwar
You showed me the picture. i know the picture. yeah
00:35:15
Mohammad Khan
you know it's when It's my favorite photo of but when I was a kid. um That was my entry point to cars. Actually seeing and feeling, and to your point about icons of Porsche, right? But we were recently, a colleague of mine and I that were trying to work on a few projects for cars recently in the UAE, we were exploring different motor shows and we found out that there's not a lot. There's like mobility conferences. There's like the future of energy and EV and autonomy and stuff like that.
00:35:43
Mohammad Khan
But the Dubai Motor Show is dead. um The Abu Dhabi Motor Show is dead.
00:35:45
Anwar
um
00:35:47
Mohammad Khan
um
00:35:48
Anwar
But imagine a Goodwood in the UAE. Like, I feel like something like that.
00:35:52
Mohammad Khan
e
00:35:53
Anwar
um
00:35:53
Mohammad Khan
Or Icons of Porsche or the Grand Picnic. That's what those are, aren't they?
00:35:57
Anwar
Yeah, that's that's ah that's exactly it. I feel like the Grand Picnic has an opportunity. Oh, sorry. The Grand Picnic is an event done by Flat 12, friends of the pod, actually.
00:36:08
Anwar
um They were...
00:36:09
Mohammad Khan
awesome I'm not friends, but I'm not friends. i haven't met yeah friends of you everybody.
00:36:14
Anwar
um sure um but they were and originally an instagram page dedicated to just fund different alternative cars in the region and from there they use that as a platform to launch a very famous now car cafe ah that hosts a lot of brands and i think audi does launches there that's the one i can remember bmw does a lot of launches there they do actually
00:36:34
Mohammad Khan
Sleeper. Stinger showed off the DLS to the region over there. I think that was the...
00:36:39
Anwar
Exactly. So it's a space in a cafe and they do a ah special event once a year where they take over a park in the middle of the city and they bring out what, like 2,000 cars?
00:36:50
Anwar
I think it's a huge and it's serious metal.
00:36:52
Mohammad Khan
People went into the in-period costume like Goodwood and stuff. It is a bit like a mini Goodwood. I haven't been. I fully intend to go this year. um But, yeah.
00:37:03
Mohammad Khan
Sorry, I didn't.
00:37:03
Anwar
Is it this year? it early? When is it? I forgot.
00:37:06
Mohammad Khan
Oh, is there next year?
00:37:06
Anwar
Yeah.
00:37:07
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, I haven't been so far, but I will. Whatever the next one is, it's coming up because, you know, the good weather's rolling around in the UAE. So um it's an outdoor event. um
00:37:15
Anwar
ah
00:37:16
Mohammad Khan
So I will...
00:37:16
Anwar
And that's why if I were working like you with a brand, I would then recommend them to say, Hey, have a conversation flat 12 and do something then.
00:37:25
Mohammad Khan
ah Agreed, agreed. And I think that's demise that's why the motor show is dead, because it's sad, because I think I think i loved motor shows.
00:37:26
Anwar
Right.
00:37:36
Mohammad Khan
My first ever, like, I was, yeah, we won't get into that too much. But like, I think motor shows are, I think they had a special place in a certain type of car enthusiast's heart. But I think content such as YouTube or Instagram or whatever is taken away from that interest to certain extent. I think it needs, car brands need to try a little harder to create their own special spaces now.
00:37:59
Mohammad Khan
And I think that that's what play more organic events like this are providing. It's less like a trade show.
00:38:04
Anwar
Yeah. Yeah, and what's funny is, and this is something i'm just reading, I like theory, um something that was explained to me in a book was that when a medium, ah any kind of medium, likes say like say CD, ah any or like like you said, the new kind of car show, when it's ah when it succeeds an older type of medium, the the medium that has been succeeded, though the previous medium, gets re like repositioned or rethought of in a much more nostalgic, a much more...
00:38:36
Anwar
you know, ah reverent way. So for example, when TV became much more popular, cinema became a lot more ah important, distinguished. When CD came around, vinyl became something that people really, you know, valued and treasure. When websites and Instagram, all this kind of online content became far more popular, the magazine was reframed as something that was something like very important and prestigious. And I wonder if we're going to have that same kind of nostalgia or same kind of reverence for the car show now that you know these events have kind of superseded them.
00:39:10
Anwar
Because it is what you're saying now that it feels like, in hindsight, you're reflecting on that. And I wonder if that also happens with this.
00:39:17
Mohammad Khan
I think it's because whatever made the car show special, whatever made it great, whatever utility it served is now being picked up by other things which are more targeted and better for people.
00:39:29
Mohammad Khan
So if you were a consumer, you can now go to a Goodwood or ah or a Grand Picnic or an Icons of Porsche and be better served. If you were a tradesman, if you were a journalist or whatever, you can now go to these specific mobility events or whatever – ah future of transportation, these things, and learn about a lot more than just cars there, understand the entire ecosystem, um whether that's fuel or energy or cars or like the whole gamut of things.
00:39:59
Mohammad Khan
And I feel like it's just, it's and unfortunate it's unfortunate, but also like, I don't feel bad about it too much because I feel like there's been enough in its place that my my interests are served, you know?
00:40:09
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:40:10
Anwar
Yeah, and let's not forget, they were very expensive um for manufacturers. um You didn't get the attention that you thought you deserved as a manufacturer. And to be honest, the kind of car show killed themselves.
00:40:21
Anwar
I know a lot of journalists who were talking about that, that like... um brands would deliberately show a car of before or afterwards because they didn't want to pay the tax of having to do the car show and not be the attention then and now with the internet you don't need to pull all the journalists into the same space to get you know them all on the same page you can fire out some press releases do a specific event for vips and then you've done your job right
00:40:33
Mohammad Khan
Thank you.
00:40:47
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, it's also like people are also taking I would say there's also a certain amount of inspiration that comes from Apple here, right? Is that Apple never goes to MWC. They don't go to Mobile World Congress. They don't go to the Consumer Electronics Show. They don't go to CES.
00:41:00
Mohammad Khan
They always do their own events in their own space and completely own the narrative of what they're saying. you are not at risk of someone else um hijacking your narrative or um I guess ah overshadowing your narrative when you own it.
00:41:17
Mohammad Khan
And I think that is the difference in these single brand or events or whatever, as opposed to whatever. But, you know, we've spent a lot of time on this um experiences as a media thing.
00:41:30
Mohammad Khan
um Do you want to briefly talk about Aston Martin?
00:41:36
Anwar
ah Yeah, I think that's a nice segue. So ah they aren't doing well, but did they ever do well? um And ah specifically, you made you made a good point to me. um On WhatsApp, you did say that yeah there why is it that a brand that makes fantastic sports cars now makes a great SUV just never got the traction in the region?
00:42:02
Mohammad Khan
Yeah,
00:42:02
Anwar
And
00:42:04
Anwar
That was the that was the that was a basis, right? Now, you put the question, like and let me let me respond with a few different thoughts, if that's okay.
00:42:11
Mohammad Khan
Let me provide a little context.
00:42:11
Anwar
Okay.
00:42:13
Mohammad Khan
We saw, we recently read FT's latest report, Financial Times of Aston Martin. They're hemorrhaging money. They are losing thousands of dollars on um each car that they make, every single model.
00:42:28
Mohammad Khan
They have arguably the strongest lineup, the strongest marketing, the the biggest budgets, deepest pockets they've ever had. um
00:42:36
Anwar
A Formula 1 team. Do you I mean? Like talking about at the right time too. A Formula 1 team with Fernando Alonso.
00:42:41
Mohammad Khan
and with one of the most marketable people in the sport, whether he's still good or not is a separate question. But like, um yeah, he's one of the most marketable people in the sport.
00:42:47
Anwar
of the most famous.
00:42:51
Mohammad Khan
They had someone who was also one of the most marketable people in the sport that he replaced, Vettel. And they are...
00:42:56
Anwar
Yes.
00:42:56
Mohammad Khan
um
00:42:56
Anwar
They had podiums. They've had podiums. Not recently, but they've had podiums. Yeah.
00:43:01
Mohammad Khan
and and they are I think one of the least visible brands in the UAE. I would argue that in a country that I feel is very big on luxury overall.
00:43:11
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:43:15
Mohammad Khan
This is not a premium manufacturer. Aston Martin is luxury. When Ford was selling them, LVMH was bidding.
00:43:24
Mohammad Khan
Okay, segue, go.
00:43:27
Anwar
No, that's fine. that i wouldn't I couldn't put it better in myself. ah Then the question then becomes why? And I think I've got two points that I want your feedback on. Number one, I think they weren't flashy enough yet.
00:43:36
Mohammad Khan
No,
00:43:39
Anwar
Now it's different, right? They've got the Valkyrie hypercar. um They're clearly trying to become a lot more like the British Ferrari in their own words. I remember them saying that as well. and they They hired Montezemolo. That was a massive move.
00:43:53
Anwar
So the man who basically built...
00:43:53
Mohammad Khan
no, Montezemolo's McLaren.
00:43:58
Anwar
I thought it was Aston Martin.
00:43:59
Mohammad Khan
No, it's McLaren. Montezemolo's McLaren.
00:44:00
Anwar
Oh, thank you. Sorry. Apologies. so Good catch.
00:44:03
Mohammad Khan
but the florida
00:44:03
Anwar
ah
00:44:04
Mohammad Khan
I heard a bunch of ex-Ferrari guys though, you're right.
00:44:06
Anwar
Yeah, yes yeah, yeah.
00:44:06
Mohammad Khan
But not many.
00:44:08
Anwar
Okay. um They were trying to position themselves and the cars themselves actually drive differently. They're trying to become the British ah Ferrari. um They have now introduced a mid-engine model, not only at the top, but in the middle, which I find very interesting too.
00:44:23
Anwar
ah So I think the problem was in the past, they weren't flashy enough and the region is a very flashy region. And I think the second thing is um that they haven't being able to communicate well. um And i was the I'll raise it here so you can you you can have a platform to disagree with me.
00:44:43
Anwar
But I mentioned Jaguar as a um a different category of car, premium. um It's been mainstream, it's been premium. But they've done very well in Dubai. And I think the reason they've done well is that they had a specific advertising agency that really pushed people their brand in the region, but really, really in the UAE and Dubai.
00:45:04
Anwar
It was Spark 44. ah They were an incumbent and they were ah the incumbent for like a decade and they were semi in-house as well. And I think through the efforts of that kind of very focused approach, Jaguar able to promote their brand and get sales here that they wouldn't have.
00:45:21
Anwar
So maybe it's because it's a marketing problem or a communications problem. And it's also the product wasn't flashy enough. That's my thesis.
00:45:28
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, i think I think even if the product was flashy enough, I don't think it was good enough. I think that's what that's the fundamental problem. If you're paying that much money, not the fundamental problem, sorry, that's a secondary problem. i'll ah I'll agree with you in a second.
00:45:41
Mohammad Khan
But the I think the problem was the DB9, as good as it was at launch, was never quite as good as its competition. right I think the V8 Vantage might have been the only one, um but we'll we'll we'll come back to that or whatever. It doesn't matter.
00:45:55
Mohammad Khan
Right now, the van the latest Vanquish has, I think, beat the Dolce Cilindri in every comparison test I've seen.
00:46:03
Anwar
Dolce Cylinder is sweet because it's literally like sweet cylinder.
00:46:03
Mohammad Khan
um
00:46:06
Anwar
That's what do you call it.
00:46:08
Mohammad Khan
What's it c called? The Duchi Cilindri?
00:46:10
Anwar
It's just 12.
00:46:10
Mohammad Khan
Duchi? Duchi? The 12 Cilindri.
00:46:13
Anwar
douchhi yeah
00:46:14
Mohammad Khan
Fuck that, man.
00:46:15
Anwar
Yeah.
00:46:15
Mohammad Khan
Like, worst name ever. um But yeah, um we way to get people. I want that one. was just Like, gorgeous. I want to know.
00:46:26
Anwar
enough brand to give their car a name that's unpronounceable and people still want to buy it.
00:46:31
Mohammad Khan
It's gorgeous, but like, yeah, I would rather have a vanquish. But I agree with you. I think this is fundamentally a marketing problem. I don't think Aston Martin has ever marketed themselves very well in the region. i don't know what they do in the region.
00:46:43
Mohammad Khan
And if we go back on it, so we were simul... There was a period when you and i were working at a social media... At Jaguar's social media agency.
00:46:54
Mohammad Khan
um Spark 44 had just come in the region. They had taken over most of the business from the existing agencies, but we're in the process of, I think we eventually handed over social to them as well. We were in the final throes of that.
00:47:07
Mohammad Khan
But off the back of that, we picked up an RFP for Aston Martin. um If you recall, we were a really small shop, man.
00:47:13
Anwar
The No.
00:47:15
Mohammad Khan
And it's I think it speaks. I mean, I know.
00:47:17
Anwar
ah bo
00:47:18
Mohammad Khan
I do think that overall luxury brands do have specialist luxury agencies. I think that's true. And I don't think Jaguar and Aston Martin sit in the same tier as much as Jaguar would love to believe that.
00:47:30
Mohammad Khan
um Jaguar is a premium brand and Aston Martin is very much a luxury brand in my opinion. um But I don't think they've marketed themselves well. I don't think people in the region understand what they stand for.
00:47:42
Mohammad Khan
um I don't think they many even know what they are. They haven't entered the common lexicon as like the way a Ferrari or a Porsche has, for example. um kind of It's kind of a higher tier version of the Alfa Romeo problem in a way.
00:47:56
Mohammad Khan
um But will say one thing, if I can wrap up with this, and then I'll let i'll let you say piece as well, is that the Aston Martin dealerships are gorgeous.
00:47:57
Anwar
I just thought of something.
00:48:01
Anwar
Yeah.
00:48:06
Mohammad Khan
The one in Dubai, the one in Abu Dhabi, they make you want to own cars.
00:48:09
Anwar
Now?
00:48:11
Mohammad Khan
I don't know about the one in Dubai.
00:48:11
Anwar
but
00:48:11
Mohammad Khan
I haven't seen the latest. one I don't know if they're still in. Are they still in ah near the Birch? I don't know. But...
00:48:18
Anwar
Yeah, yeah. But no, sorry, question. Is that a new thing or have they always been really nice?
00:48:23
Mohammad Khan
think they've always been that. I think that's a gro global brand directive. um But the the I, you know, Google it later, but look up the dealership in Abu Dhabi, man.
00:48:26
Anwar
Mm-hmm.
00:48:31
Mohammad Khan
It is... like right next to the the ruling palace. It is um ah it's opposite the Emirates Palace Hotel. It is next to a bunch of really architecturally stunning buildings.
00:48:45
Mohammad Khan
And it is on like a platform. It's on a pedestal. Like these cars are on display. There's like inside a display case. It's architecturally stunning, you know? And you see these cars in there and you're like, honestly, like every time I drive by it, I'm like,
00:49:00
Mohammad Khan
One day I'm going to walk in there and buy something. You know, like I really want, it's like the Apple store effect.
00:49:07
Anwar
i've I think we've missed the elephant in the room, and I can't believe I forgot it as well. I think Aston Martin's problem, it can be condensed to two words. James Bond.
00:49:19
Mohammad Khan
Is that a problem though? That's awesome.
00:49:21
Anwar
No, I think what's interesting is it's an it shows you you can't build a brand off the back of one association. And for decades, they had one association, which was James Bond.
00:49:32
Anwar
And if you are an Emirati or if you're a Saudi um and you don't relate to that character, right, you don't want his car because you're not that guy.
00:49:42
Mohammad Khan
So...
00:49:44
Anwar
And I think that's the elephant in the room. Like you can't create a brand off of one... big association, whereas, okay, maybe Ferrari's done it with Formula One and they, they prove the, the, the exception that makes a rule, but the, the amount that Aston Martin sold itself on being the James Bond brand for, for decades, I think has been lazy and it's been a detriment and that they're suffering because they were the, they were the, you know, the James Bond brand.
00:50:15
Anwar
And before you start, I want to get your feedback on this.
00:50:15
Mohammad Khan
Okay.
00:50:17
Anwar
Um, i think it's ah i yeah I think it's a relatability problem that you if you want to buy the car, the immediate vibe you give off every single last month until recently was that you are trying to roleplay a James
Aston Martin's Marketing Challenges
00:50:31
Anwar
Bond.
00:50:31
Anwar
So maybe that's just not something that's big in that region. and in
00:50:34
Mohammad Khan
So that is very good context. i would ah When you started speaking, I immediately wanted to knee-jerk disagree with you, but I 100% agree with you now. I think the relatability thing is very real. um I think it would be interesting to talk to some some of our Amirathi or Saudi friends to see how they feel about that.
00:50:50
Mohammad Khan
um
00:50:50
Anwar
Because it's very British as well.
00:50:51
Mohammad Khan
um Yeah, I think...
00:50:54
Anwar
And like, ah we've met some very arrogant Brits. And I don't know if I'd want to ah give off that very arrogant hype.
00:51:02
Mohammad Khan
the But I think, you know, Bentley and Range Rover and even Jaguar, I think Rolls-Royce certainly, all of them, think to a certain extent, thrive on their Britishness in this market, that association with royalty and like, but I get it.
00:51:11
Anwar
Defender. Defender. Defender.
00:51:19
Mohammad Khan
It's not the bond market. bond Bond was the only element, right? Like even for Ferrari, I know you've said Formula One, but it wasn't just motorsports. It was their lifestyle brands.
00:51:30
Mohammad Khan
There are strategic sponsorships in executive sports and things for some of these brands. So like, for example, um I do believe like I think Lamborghini even we'll sponsor the polo somewhere and like Porsche will sponsor tennis and golf and the the other luxury brands for Louis Vuitton, Rolex, all these guys are involved in sailing. And there's a certain, there's certain like echelon of like, I am rich sports or activities, right?
00:51:55
Mohammad Khan
Um, whether that's tennis or golf or sailing or whatever it is, right?
00:51:56
Anwar
Hmm.
00:52:00
Mohammad Khan
They're involved in these things, whether it's through brand sponsorships or, um, um, brand ambassadors or whatever. And I don't think Aston Martin's really been visible ah um on that up until recently.
00:52:12
Mohammad Khan
So I do think the the association problem, sorry, the, um what is it? The kind of, what were you saying? The,
00:52:21
Mohammad Khan
Do they understand it? Kind of the relevance. The relevance problem of the James Bond Association is real, but I think, you know, that contributes to a larger visibility problem, which is, i think they just have not been like Land Rover Jaguar.
00:52:35
Mohammad Khan
They own the Maidan races, right? Like every year, like there are Range Rovers ferrying people about, for example. Yeah.
00:52:42
Anwar
And even the James Bond films. And I feel like they've managed to do that and do other things too, right? like the Do you remember the launch of Defender? It was like rolling down the hill. It was so cool. they crack like him it I think it was so brave to show... Huh?
00:52:57
Mohammad Khan
but the blacked out defenders in the movie looks so good. Yeah.
00:53:00
Anwar
yes
00:53:00
Mohammad Khan
Right. like
00:53:01
Anwar
Yeah. No, but the launch ad
00:53:01
Mohammad Khan
and but or So good to be bad. Like,
00:53:06
Anwar
yeah but but no But the Defender launch ad, I remember we were working on it, was the shot in the film where the the defender like the Defender rolls down a hill, like does a tumble like five times, and then drives off.
00:53:19
Anwar
ah You want to show off like how cool your car is, it's in a movie. ah It's extremely tough. like I think we discount how important James Bond, the franchise, was for launching the Defender.
00:53:31
Anwar
ah do you remember they even had like vintage Defenders in it as well?
00:53:34
Mohammad Khan
Yeah. um I think the I mean, I will say this from an Infinity perspective as well, right? Because i spent a lot of time working on Infinity and you even Infinity understood that better.
00:53:43
Anwar
a
00:53:46
Mohammad Khan
You know, like they are they they were they would sponsor local film festivals, for example, sports tournaments. um Last year, when the ah the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix was happening, I caught sight of Sainz and his party and Vassar and his party being chauffeured around in branded Infiniti QX SUVs.
00:54:08
Mohammad Khan
So they, you know, like they they owned that little piece in some way. And I think that those are very, very positive and important affiliations to have. And I think, i think yeah, I think this can all be boiled down to a marketing problem, a visibility problem for Aston Martin. They have not been visible in the right places for this region to care about who they are.
00:54:30
Anwar
What other brand do you feel like it's so associated with a film franchise? Just trying to think now if there's any really, I don't, I don't remember.
00:54:39
Mohammad Khan
Low.
00:54:41
Anwar
Lotus?
00:54:43
Mohammad Khan
I think the yeah the the mainstream but mainstream's understanding of Lotus outside of car... Lotus is big with car enthusiasts, but every time I've watched a video about Lotus on YouTube or whatever with some reviewers or anything, the two references that come up are James Bond and the Julia Roberts film. can't remember what it's called.
00:55:03
Mohammad Khan
um
00:55:04
Mohammad Khan
But there's a Julia...
00:55:04
Anwar
Oh, yeah.
00:55:05
Anwar
Yeah.
00:55:07
Mohammad Khan
Let me just search it.
00:55:13
Mohammad Khan
Pretty Woman.
00:55:15
Anwar
Yeah.
00:55:15
Mohammad Khan
I've not seen either of these films, but like this is, these are the common associates. I think Lotus in the mainstream is only recognizable because of the esprit in that movie to a certain generation and the esprit in James Bond to a certain generation.
00:55:30
Mohammad Khan
um Outside of that, which enthusiast brand?
00:55:31
Anwar
And that's another plan. Not really. Yeah, that's another brand that's not doing well.
00:55:34
Mohammad Khan
Hmm?
00:55:36
Anwar
um
00:55:36
Mohammad Khan
Yeah.
00:55:37
Anwar
Right.
00:55:38
Mohammad Khan
Marketing...
00:55:40
Anwar
Marketing problem. Well, no, product problem too, I think. that That's a bigger... that's Let's not open that now, 55 minutes in. um I mean, should we bring this into land, let's say?
00:55:49
Mohammad Khan
ah um but because the thought hit me this morning and I really wanted to talk about it, but we're running out of time. This is for another topic, is that when I was growing up um and they first showed off some of the, you know, first time ever an auto car, i remember reading about some of the Sultans like custom cars and he had something called a Bentley Dominator um and the Ferrari 456 Venice.
00:56:07
Anwar
Yeah.
00:56:10
Mohammad Khan
So the Bentley Dominator was effectively a ah Bentley SUV built off a Range Rover chassis and the Ferrari 456 Venice was um sedan and ah station wagon variants of the Ferrari 456 GT car um which I thought was fantastic because it excited me to see these specialist car manufacturers doing something more than just sports cars and I saw the Lotus Electre um overtake me on the way. as Somebody at my gym, apparently, he overtook me to the same class.
Lotus and Market Expansion
00:56:45
Mohammad Khan
He needed to get there faster than I did, apparently.
00:56:47
Mohammad Khan
And very easy to overtake a Mazda 6. So he overtook me, and I just can't, not to think, but I mean, people can call it whatever they want, but there's that little, like, you know, young Moe still excited about the fact that Lotus did something that's not a sports car that weighs five pounds.
00:56:51
Anwar
Nope.
00:57:03
Mohammad Khan
But yeah, I will move on from that. um I would like to wrap up with a short, unless you want to say something more about that. Are you...
00:57:09
Anwar
not
00:57:10
Mohammad Khan
um We'll save that topic about product for a different ah um episode. But I think um the one quick question i wanted to wrap up with was, what do you think is a car that was not officially sold in the GCC or the UAE that you think would have done really well? I think an answer hit me. I'm not actually sure if it wasn't sold. Maybe it came through in limited numbers.
00:57:34
Mohammad Khan
But I thought, you know, ah any thoughts?
00:57:41
Anwar
I always thought the century is a very interesting thing because of the, the Toyota-ness and how big that, that, that brand is in the region and how many people have some such strong associations. I think sent that now, Hmm.
00:57:51
Mohammad Khan
Century was officially sold here.
00:57:57
Anwar
Was it really?
00:57:58
Mohammad Khan
Yeah, and i'll tell I don't know the extent of it, but I know this because when I was a little kid, um my dad was... ah No, I wasn't a little kid. I was in middle school.
00:58:09
Mohammad Khan
We went to the Lexus Center in Jeddah to inquire about an ES, the Lexus ES300. My dad was looking into buying one. um He wanted to upgrade from his Camry.
00:58:23
Mohammad Khan
um ah makes sense, but um they had a century on display and they told me all about it. So there was a very small amount of ah centuries that actually came in.
00:58:33
Mohammad Khan
um I don't know whether they were special order or what it was, but I do believe a small number of centuries came in officially.
00:58:41
Anwar
They were all at that time, the the the Sentry was a special order only vehicle. you had to You had to ask to buy it.
00:58:47
Mohammad Khan
Mm-hmm.
00:58:49
Anwar
ah So maybe, again, I can imagine if you run the dealerships that they would allow you to to to purchase those vehicles in the region. So that's my answer. But what's yours, Moe?
00:58:58
Mohammad Khan
ah my the The answer that hit me that i this question started off with was the, ah is a current car, is the Corolla GR?
00:59:13
Anwar
i I think I might disagree, but go on. Give me your case.
00:59:18
Mohammad Khan
GTI does well here, and arguably, if they offered a go-faster Corolla, I think people would be all over it if they officially sold it here. The Civic Type R, even in the limited numbers that it comes in, is well it's sought after.
00:59:31
Mohammad Khan
So I think the i think the yar there is a market for the, not the Yaris, the Corolla GR. Corolla is a strong gameplay here.
00:59:36
Anwar
Hold on.
00:59:37
Mohammad Khan
I don't think the Yaris would fly. um I think there are a few people bringing them in, and I think that's that's fine. But I think the Corolla GR could be a standard a car here.
00:59:46
Anwar
Okay. No, i that the that would be interesting. I've seen a lot of Yaris's, by the way, Yari, GRs. um they they were They were officially imported.
00:59:52
Mohammad Khan
but
00:59:55
Anwar
They were. um know a few people bought them. its But it's always going to be a niche product. The Corolla is a good point. I wonder. but it's But is it the same Corolla? Now I'm being really stupid. Talk about not knowing.
01:00:08
Anwar
um Is that the same Corolla?
01:00:11
Mohammad Khan
yeah so
01:00:11
Anwar
We don't use Corolla, don't we?
01:00:14
Mohammad Khan
that yeah well look the it's based on the american corolla platform right and apparently same platform
01:00:20
Anwar
yes
01:00:22
Mohammad Khan
but there are visible differences between the sudan we get here and spec differences as well between the sueddan we get here sudan we get there and we don't get the hatchback at all here over there they do get a corulla hatchback um so ah and the gr is built off the hatchback platform so but i don't i don't think it's too much of a stretch i think like you know you bring in a go faster corolla i think i think it would fly i think it would be a nice little gti competitor um
01:00:49
Mohammad Khan
teyota certainly got the the brand to do it here i think and i think on the back of that that that just reminded me of two others that would have done i think would do really well here which is the and do one of them does get imported grey imported in large numbers is the teora tundra was never sold here i think the tundra would do fantastic here
01:01:06
Anwar
Yeah.
01:01:07
Mohammad Khan
and and the
01:01:07
Anwar
ah What's the product?
01:01:08
Mohammad Khan
happening as well
01:01:09
Anwar
The Forerunner.
01:01:09
Mohammad Khan
nothing
01:01:10
Anwar
The Forerunner.
01:01:10
Mohammad Khan
it's dead at the clinton sorry
01:01:12
Anwar
The Forerunner.
01:01:15
Mohammad Khan
i don't think i think there's an explicit reason for the foreunner not existing here anymore though i i think because they moved away they had the four hundred in the ninety s but this would be interesting to talk about because there is a guest we're trying to line up that would know a lot about this hopefully we can you know make everything work with him so i'm not going to spill the beans in the event that it doesn't happen but there is somebody that we know very familiar with toota that i think ah may come on um and talk to us and it might be worth getting his opinion so let's save the forerunner conversation
01:01:46
Mohammad Khan
ah for him but the foreigner was sold here was i was when i was growing up in saudi i think pretty much everyone i knew owned as foreign and
01:01:54
Anwar
Hmm.
01:01:54
Mohammad Khan
so
01:01:55
Anwar
But maybe it's Prado.
01:01:55
Mohammad Khan
there's the point the
01:01:57
Anwar
Maybe because it is basically a Prado anyway. So I feel like it's a you're you're eating your own market.
01:02:02
Mohammad Khan
and all those people migrated to pratos when they replaced the foruner abroad like all those every single person i knew that owned a forerunner eventually ended up buying a proto so like
01:02:10
Anwar
Do you have Ford Everest?
01:02:11
Mohammad Khan
are so sorry
01:02:14
Anwar
Ford Everest, that South African model. There's the ah the, what's it called? The Ford, what's the Ford pickup truck called again? um
01:02:23
Mohammad Khan
ranger
01:02:24
Anwar
Yeah, the Ranger SUV, the Everest. but it
01:02:28
Mohammad Khan
and and don't think anyone i don't think i was in so i left saudi before um
01:02:34
Anwar
Now, it's now. It's now. It's the current Ranger. it
01:02:39
Mohammad Khan
yeah you but
01:02:39
Anwar
That's the thing. Okay. Hmm?
01:02:41
Mohammad Khan
different rats of everest i think i left um a saudi before that picked up that ever was introduced to the market um and i don't know how it's doing now i'm not well informed enough on that topic to comment or at any considerable value just like
01:02:57
Anwar
I think I don't have anything other value to add now as well. i'm I'm kind of good to wrap if we're done.
01:03:04
Mohammad Khan
yeah um i'd like to get some lunch um but ah cool man it's good talk um i like bringing it back to the roots with just you and me although you know i had a good time talking to amteson and the seal i think it's good to just get our opinions out there but let's see what we can do um hopefully we can make this more regular thing um speaking adding no value ah dont i mean maybe follow us on instagram and email us with your feedback and stuff but it seems like linkedin's words it's poppping so ah contact us on linkedin guys because that's where you guys are most seemingly picking up most of our content so
01:03:39
Mohammad Khan
appreciate everyone
01:03:39
Anwar
And ah like comments really, really appreciated. Feedback's always appreciated.
01:03:44
Mohammad Khan
yeah we've been getting a lot a lot of really good feedback from everyone um a very interesting thing today i walked into my gym class in the morning and the instructor basically said um man it's weird this guy knows everything about cars you check out his podcast i'm like ah this is happening huh so is am i am i partially famous um i don't know but the numbers certainly don't say so but we're getting where we are we are getting bigger so we appreciate all of you
01:04:14
Anwar
Appreciate every single viewer and listener. Really, like really, really do. um Really appreciate it
01:04:20
Mohammad Khan
yeah we do this for fun we don't do this for money guys this costs us money if anything so
01:04:23
Mohammad Khan
ah we appreciate like this thing and giving us feedback so thank you
01:04:24
Anwar
Yeah.
01:04:28
Anwar
Cool. All right. Thank you, guys.
01:04:30
Mohammad Khan
but
01:04:31
Anwar
Bye.