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Ep 129: Signing Donuts with Keith Elwin
85 Plays2 years ago
The Goat is back! We're talking about his newest creation, Jaws Pinball and everything that comes with it.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 129
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:11
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
It is episode 129.
00:00:15
Speaker
We've got an epic guest, as always, on.
New Jaws Game Release
00:00:18
Speaker
And before we get to that, though, Jaws is now out.
00:00:21
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of that, Scott, how are you going to buy your Jaws game?
00:00:24
Speaker
I actually have one on order right now with Zach and Nicole Minney at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:29
Speaker
So get on that Pro Premium or ask if there's an L.A.
00:00:32
Speaker
We'll see if we can do that.
00:00:35
Speaker
I'm hearing they're selling pretty well, actually.
00:00:37
Speaker
So
Guest Introduction: Keith Elwin
00:00:39
Speaker
can't complain.
00:00:39
Speaker
And nor can the man with us, who he really needs no introduction, right?
00:00:44
Speaker
Like people love him.
00:00:47
Speaker
Men want to be him.
00:00:48
Speaker
Women want to be with him, right?
00:00:49
Speaker
Something like that.
00:00:50
Speaker
The man, the myth, the legend, Keith Elwin.
00:00:53
Speaker
How are you doing, Keith?
00:00:54
Speaker
I'm all right.
00:00:55
Speaker
Hanging in there.
Health and Tournaments
00:00:56
Speaker
I heard you're a little sick.
00:00:59
Speaker
You caught something more from California than an Indus trophy.
00:01:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:04
Speaker
Every pinball tournament, man.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:07
Speaker
Get the pinball crud.
00:01:09
Speaker
You have to walk around with gloves and just change them every game.
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:14
Speaker
Thank goodness it wasn't COVID, but yeah, it's so lingering and so annoying.
00:01:20
Speaker
I guess Kreisel coined it the con crud.
00:01:22
Speaker
That's what it is, I guess.
00:01:24
Speaker
I don't know.
00:01:25
Speaker
It doesn't sound like fun.
00:01:26
Speaker
So you've just been at home.
00:01:27
Speaker
You called in sick.
00:01:28
Speaker
Well, you had a great reveal, so you just kind of called in sick this week or what?
00:01:33
Speaker
I went in for the stream.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:01:37
Speaker
Which was great.
Jaws Game Development Insights
00:01:39
Speaker
So everyone's wanting to know where Jaws just released.
00:01:45
Speaker
You had a little extra time on this game.
00:01:47
Speaker
Like,
00:01:49
Speaker
Most of your releases have been within 12 months to 13 months, I feel like.
00:01:52
Speaker
And this one, you had over two and a half years from the reveal of Godzilla to the reveal of Jaws.
00:01:58
Speaker
What was different with this development process?
00:02:00
Speaker
And were you able to test some stuff out?
00:02:02
Speaker
Were you able to get more creative, I guess, with this game?
00:02:08
Speaker
Well, no, because we weren't supposed to release when we did.
00:02:12
Speaker
So it's pretty natural to start on a new project when the other one's kind of like
00:02:19
Speaker
ramping up for release.
00:02:21
Speaker
So this just happened to fall when we decided to cut back to two cornerstones.
00:02:27
Speaker
So my work was mostly done on this a long time ago.
00:02:31
Speaker
So all this extra time went to both the South Park team and the Jurassic Park 30th update.
00:02:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:39
Speaker
Cool.
00:02:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:41
Speaker
So here's another question too.
00:02:44
Speaker
This is the first Keith Elwin game that has an upper play field.
00:02:48
Speaker
So, okay.
00:02:49
Speaker
So, so just curious about that.
00:02:51
Speaker
Um, what, this is a departure from your other, you know, your four cornerstones and obviously your, uh, street level game.
00:02:58
Speaker
So what were the thought processes of going into that?
00:03:00
Speaker
Uh, so when I told her I was doing this game, that, uh, number one thing I envisioned was an upper play field, uh, themed as the orca where you're up there, um,
00:03:14
Speaker
Originally, I was going to have the shark kind of bust through the back up there, but we just didn't have room to do it.
00:03:19
Speaker
So we went for kind of like the smallest play field we can do.
00:03:26
Speaker
And my goal was to, hey, what don't I like about upper play fields?
00:03:31
Speaker
Well, it just seems like you're just flailing around, not being in danger.
00:03:35
Speaker
So.
00:03:36
Speaker
It was my goal to just have the upper plate field kind of just flow into the rest of the shot pattern.
00:03:41
Speaker
So you get in there, it does this little, you know, little serpentine, the slow down the ball goes to the mini flipper.
00:03:47
Speaker
And then you got, essentially you have two shots.
00:03:51
Speaker
You got a ramp and then you got the horizontal spinner, which also feeds another ramp.
00:03:55
Speaker
And you also have what's called the radio target, which will spot anything you need.
00:03:59
Speaker
But those rules aren't in at the moment, but,
00:04:02
Speaker
No matter which shot you hit, it's going to find an XGV.
Upper Playfield Design
00:04:05
Speaker
For the radio target, it's going to dump out on that little metal dump out that kind of feeds the right slingshot.
00:04:11
Speaker
The left ramp kind of feeds the left orbit, and then the reel feeds the mini-flip on the right.
00:04:16
Speaker
So I didn't make any geometry changes since the initial whitewood, and it's because the shots all did exactly what I wanted them to, and I thought it was perfect.
00:04:31
Speaker
Speaking of the little flipper and feeding to it, did you always have that little post section right there to kind of hold it to slow down?
00:04:37
Speaker
Because in the stream when I was watching it, it's like blazing fast.
00:04:41
Speaker
And almost like you need to stop everything just to line up what you're doing.
00:04:45
Speaker
So was that, I guess, original concept?
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, actually, we screwed it up on the first white one and it didn't hold it.
00:04:52
Speaker
So I had to move the hole in everyone's game.
00:04:55
Speaker
But yeah, that was always part of the concept.
Flip Lock System
00:04:59
Speaker
just adds a thought it would add because there's no like especially during the multiball there's no place to park the ball in this game there's no scoops you know there's nothing the upposts don't come up during multiball so the only chance the player has to park the ball somewhere is using the uh the little flip lock system or just holding the right flipper up so speaking of flip lock i want you to go more into this like i saw it on the stream it looks awesome my like
00:05:25
Speaker
Is it just, it holds it through the whole multiball?
00:05:27
Speaker
Do you have a timer?
00:05:28
Speaker
What exactly, how does this flip lock system work?
00:05:32
Speaker
So the way it works is during a multiball, if you hold the right flippers in, I think it's for like one second, the action button will start flashing green.
00:05:40
Speaker
And then if you hold that down for one second,
00:05:42
Speaker
It'll lock the upper flipper in for, I believe, default is 15 seconds, but that can be built upon by bounty hunts, which add perks to that.
00:05:53
Speaker
So there's also, you can do it once per ball, but there's also a perk that you can get.
00:06:00
Speaker
You can do it multiple times per ball.
00:06:02
Speaker
That is the, right now I think it's the tiger shark.
00:06:04
Speaker
If you catch the tiger shark, you can do it multiple times in a single multi-ball.
00:06:10
Speaker
Is there a, is there a bonus for actually not using that during multiple?
00:06:15
Speaker
Cause that would be, that that's more, that's harder, right?
00:06:17
Speaker
When you have four balls flying at the same time.
00:06:19
Speaker
It's actually the, I think it's more fun to not use it and hold, you know, manually hold the flipper up and try to see as far as you can get without, um, you know, trying to release the right side.
00:06:30
Speaker
But, uh, it's cool.
00:06:32
Speaker
I think, um,
00:06:34
Speaker
I think it's just a unique way to, like I said, safely park the ball somewhere
Shark-Mode and Strategy
00:06:39
Speaker
that's never been done before.
00:06:41
Speaker
So, yeah, I was pretty excited to finally get that going.
00:06:44
Speaker
That wasn't actually in the game on that initial release stream.
00:06:50
Speaker
That stream was kind of an older code, so we got that in just before the actual official reveal stream on Monday.
00:06:59
Speaker
So you're talking about stage flipping basically.
00:07:01
Speaker
So for people who don't, haven't really picked this up, if you typically have two flippers, if you hold it in a little bit, it does the, you know, it holds the top flipper, you hold it in all the way and holds the bottom flipper.
00:07:14
Speaker
Now you have three flippers that are activated by the right side.
00:07:18
Speaker
And so if you,
00:07:20
Speaker
if you're trapping up by either stage flipping is the upper play field flipper also being activated or does it lock or how does that work?
00:07:30
Speaker
Uh, the upper play field,
00:07:32
Speaker
is also the same secondary switch as the, uh, the right side mini flipper.
00:07:37
Speaker
Uh, flip lock does not affect the upper, um, basically because, you know, that would defeat the purpose.
00:07:43
Speaker
Cause you know, the easiest way to, uh, use that upper play field during a multi-ball is to have, you know, have balls parked away in the, uh, the flip lock.
00:07:53
Speaker
So are you going to have modes in here?
00:07:54
Speaker
So I'm thinking like terror of Mechagodzilla, right?
00:07:56
Speaker
Like it's a multi-ball.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, but,
00:08:00
Speaker
if you were able to flip lock and then put a bunch of balls in there, you could pretty pick up, pick off those shots with less hazard.
00:08:07
Speaker
And then it's also like, cause then you lose flips as you drain too.
00:08:11
Speaker
Is there some strategy like that?
00:08:12
Speaker
That's going to go into this or, or what?
00:08:15
Speaker
No, the strategy is just a place to park the balls, man.
00:08:19
Speaker
Cool.
00:08:21
Speaker
It's exciting.
00:08:23
Speaker
It is.
00:08:24
Speaker
It's unique.
00:08:25
Speaker
It makes you think, oh, do I want to use it now?
00:08:27
Speaker
Or do I try to get two balls in there?
00:08:29
Speaker
And that way I can play a one ball multi-ball for 15 seconds.
00:08:32
Speaker
It forces you to think a little bit.
00:08:34
Speaker
And then, of course, activating isn't super easy.
00:08:36
Speaker
You kind of have to plan it a couple seconds ahead of time.
00:08:41
Speaker
And is this like a once a multi-ball or...
00:08:44
Speaker
one time per multi-ball?
00:08:46
Speaker
How does that work?
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, right now it's one time per multi-ball per ball in play, but like I said, you can add perks to use it multiple times and also have the timer, longer timer.
Currency and Ranking Systems
00:08:59
Speaker
So this is the game where you actually get to play the shark.
00:09:05
Speaker
And this is, this is a, a deviation from a lot of the things.
00:09:09
Speaker
Cause in Jurassic park, that would be kind of fun if you could play as the T-Rex and you could eat the, uh, the villagers or whatever.
00:09:16
Speaker
Or Thanos and Avengers.
00:09:17
Speaker
And you can kill people.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:19
Speaker
So how were they receptive to that idea?
00:09:23
Speaker
And were they excited about that?
00:09:25
Speaker
Were they nervous about that?
00:09:26
Speaker
Because, you know, it's, you're kind of playing the bad guy if you're playing the shark.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:32
Speaker
We still haven't fully fleshed out the, um,
00:09:35
Speaker
plays the shark.
00:09:36
Speaker
We got our storyboards and everything.
00:09:38
Speaker
Licensor was fine with it.
00:09:41
Speaker
But it's something that we're working on.
00:09:43
Speaker
Hopefully it should be in there spring.
00:09:48
Speaker
But yeah, it'll be connected to IC.
00:09:52
Speaker
So as you collect shark teeth, you can unlock the plays the shark mode, which is its own entirely own mode, kind of like the escape nublar challenge.
00:10:03
Speaker
So it's, you know,
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a three balls of its own dedicated mini game.
00:10:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:08
Speaker
That actually, that blends into another question that one of my friends asked.
00:10:13
Speaker
He was over last night and saying that we were interviewing you and he wanted to know about, so he has a Venom, he has a Venom LE and with this new phase in, in insider connectivity with the ability to, you know, either build up experience or track things, how is that going to be incorporated into your games or, you
00:10:35
Speaker
Or do you, are you planning on, obviously you're planning on that.
00:10:39
Speaker
And how do you view this?
00:10:40
Speaker
Because this is different than all sorts of, before you would go up, you'd hit start and you were starting from scratch every single time.
00:10:47
Speaker
So how has the game changed now?
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, we're not doing any, the, you know,
00:10:54
Speaker
progression towards like actual gameplay.
00:10:57
Speaker
So you can't log in and smart bomb your way to the, you know, the finale or whatever.
00:11:03
Speaker
So the way we're doing it is you're in currency known as Shark Tee.
00:11:09
Speaker
you cash this currency in, in the form of challenge modes.
00:11:12
Speaker
And each of these challenge modes have their own leaderboard.
00:11:14
Speaker
So for example, right now, if you have 20 shark teeth, you can unlock the video mode challenge, which is basically the video mode, but with unlimited levels.
00:11:25
Speaker
And if things start getting really hard after like level four or five, so I'm actually really excited to see the leaderboard on this when it goes live.
00:11:33
Speaker
The other one is it plays the shark and I'm sure we'll,
00:11:37
Speaker
do some more.
00:11:38
Speaker
We do have a ranking system.
00:11:40
Speaker
Basically, for all the teeth you collect, I think it's 100, 150 something, that you're in a shark jaw.
00:11:50
Speaker
Each time you're in a shark jaw, you progress your rank towards, you know, you're working your way up the food chain in the ocean.
00:11:57
Speaker
You start off as a mackerel and you work your way all the way up to a great white.
00:12:00
Speaker
It's 15 or 16 ranks between the two.
00:12:06
Speaker
And then you keep your rank right over time.
00:12:07
Speaker
This is like a, this is kind of the track.
00:12:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:10
Speaker
Track progression.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
And then I assume you keep your teeth as well.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's for bragging rights.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
So you have spendable teeth and then you have a lifetime teeth.
00:12:21
Speaker
Your lifetime teeth are what, when you have enough to fill in an entire great white jaw, then it becomes a jaw.
00:12:28
Speaker
Then, you know, your teeth reset to whatever you need.
00:12:31
Speaker
But the spendable teeth, those will keep going as long as you don't spend them.
00:12:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:36
Speaker
Are these teeth easy to obtain?
00:12:38
Speaker
Is it just hitting a stand-up in the game?
00:12:40
Speaker
How are we collecting these teeth?
00:12:42
Speaker
They work very similar towards just achievements.
00:12:45
Speaker
There's just baked-in achievements like starting Jaws multiball, you get a couple teeth.
00:12:50
Speaker
You land a bounty shark, you get a couple teeth.
00:12:52
Speaker
So it's all just kind of scattered throughout the game and doing different things during the game.
00:12:58
Speaker
So kind of similar to trophies in Avengers, right?
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:13:02
Speaker
Perfect.
00:13:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:03
Speaker
Easy enough.
00:13:04
Speaker
That's easy to think of.
00:13:06
Speaker
That's cool.
00:13:07
Speaker
I like that.
00:13:08
Speaker
And it's cool because if I go out to a location and I'm playing with friends, I can still be working towards progress at home as well, but it's not taking away that gameplay value of the main game.
00:13:19
Speaker
So that's a cool concept.
00:13:20
Speaker
I like that.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
I didn't really want to have you be able to
00:13:28
Speaker
know, just kind of jumping into wizard modes.
00:13:30
Speaker
I think I'd rather, you know, I'd rather offer the wizard modes or the challenge modes in a different light.
00:13:37
Speaker
You know, you, okay, you want to play this?
00:13:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:39
Speaker
You can try it out.
00:13:40
Speaker
But once you, you know, once you spend your teeth, then you have to accumulate enough teeth to try it again, basically.
00:13:46
Speaker
That's like digital currency almost.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker
You won't get sick of the challenge mode.
00:13:52
Speaker
Like, you know, I know people play it.
00:13:54
Speaker
the Nublar challenge over and over, people who have a top round Godzilla play the time attack challenge.
00:13:59
Speaker
It's like same thing, but you actually, you need to earn it and then hopefully that'll keep it fresh for you.
00:14:06
Speaker
And also it offers leaderboards, which is the other benefit.
00:14:09
Speaker
Okay, so with Jaws, now we all know that Archer was initially your demo game that you converted to Iron Maiden for your first game.
00:14:23
Speaker
Now that Iron Maiden obviously came after you had designed.
00:14:27
Speaker
So for this, this seems very specific to Jaws.
00:14:31
Speaker
And so it seems like you definitely incorporated the theme into the game design because it's not like this would work for Black Widow or Black Panther or something like that.
00:14:44
Speaker
So how would that, like, how is, is that different knowing the theme beforehand or is this typical how you, you do it now is that you get the theme and you try to figure out how to blend the experience with the theme.
Integrating Jaws Theme
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:00
Speaker
Well, the biggest challenge to doing this game in particular was, you know, when we first concepted it and George was in the meeting too, and he was just,
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, dude, guys, we got to have a moving fin mech.
00:15:14
Speaker
And, yeah, we're like, yeah, yeah, you know, we'll figure this out.
00:15:17
Speaker
But I was, like, pretty adamant that it's not, you know, mech on a stick.
00:15:21
Speaker
I was like, if we're going to do this, it has to pop up in the play field and disappear.
00:15:25
Speaker
I don't want it out there all the time hiding behind a post or whatever.
00:15:29
Speaker
And so Harrison and I, you know, kind of stepping out.
00:15:32
Speaker
And lo and behold, man, the footprint, I think, is gigantic.
00:15:36
Speaker
I mean, it's huge.
00:15:37
Speaker
If you ever look under one of these, you'll see how big it is.
00:15:40
Speaker
And so basically I had to design the entire middle kind of middle right side around this gigantic mech, which is why the shots on the back right side are so far back there.
00:15:52
Speaker
This is the only place I can fit it.
00:15:55
Speaker
So that's kind of what you have to take an account when you're designing a game, knowing what you're doing.
00:16:02
Speaker
Whereas, you know, if I took the archer layout and tried to theme it, there was no way that mech was going to fit in that play field layout.
00:16:12
Speaker
And I like this mech because it's like a mashup between like the standups with, and a cactus Canyon mixed with like Dracula from monster bash.
00:16:21
Speaker
And I love that you, I was wondering if it moved back and forth, but as I was watching the stream, it looks like it just kind of moves from left to right.
00:16:27
Speaker
Correct.
00:16:28
Speaker
Like it doesn't, it can move back and forth, but obviously it looks silly.
00:16:33
Speaker
The shark can moving backwards.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:37
Speaker
The shark putting reverse.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:38
Speaker
We know that.
00:16:39
Speaker
It technically can.
00:16:42
Speaker
It just doesn't.
00:16:43
Speaker
So, yeah, we're using it in two different ways.
00:16:45
Speaker
We're using it, you know, it's in motion.
00:16:49
Speaker
We have, I think, three or four different speeds.
00:16:50
Speaker
It can move smoothly from left to right.
00:16:53
Speaker
And we also have it, like you said, almost that's a good analogy, the Cactus Canyon pop-up tires.
00:16:57
Speaker
We can pop it up anywhere in that track we want.
00:17:00
Speaker
We call it the quick shot feature.
00:17:02
Speaker
So it kind of pops up out of the play field for a few seconds, and if you hit it, you win gear, which is our perks.
00:17:09
Speaker
So, yeah, it turned out exactly how we drew it up, except for the shape of the fin.
00:17:18
Speaker
I covered that in our podcast.
00:17:19
Speaker
It was making quite a mess.
00:17:22
Speaker
Well, and the other thing I love about this, too, on the stream, this is a moment when this fin comes out.
00:17:27
Speaker
And it's the mixture of the music.
00:17:29
Speaker
What Jerry did with that, shoot, shoot now, you know, it just...
00:17:33
Speaker
it feels like there's some urgency and some pressure on hitting this shot.
00:17:38
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:17:38
Speaker
I love how you guys have set this up.
00:17:40
Speaker
It's just, it's awesome.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
Jerry killed it on this for sure.
00:17:44
Speaker
So now we, okay.
00:17:48
Speaker
There was the, the thing online and you did talk about it in the, in your podcast, but can you briefly talk about why the, why the shark does not eat the ball?
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:00
Speaker
Because it seems like that's the main thing that a few people are really focusing on.
00:18:07
Speaker
Oh, we tried.
00:18:09
Speaker
So what people don't understand, we have certain parameters we have to meet from the licensor.
00:18:13
Speaker
And, you know, they wanted the shark that kind of pop up and scare someone.
00:18:17
Speaker
It's like, yeah, that sounds awesome.
00:18:19
Speaker
Then when you try to add a ball-eating mech to that same thing, basically it became a shark elevator.
00:18:30
Speaker
So instead of the shark jumping out of the water, we basically had this elevator and the shark moved perfectly horizontal to the play field.
00:18:39
Speaker
Like Godzilla.
00:18:41
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:42
Speaker
Imagine the building having a shark on top of the building.
00:18:44
Speaker
And that's how lame it looked.
00:18:48
Speaker
By the way, I'm putting a shark on top of my Godzilla building right now.
00:18:54
Speaker
So we scrapped out at one and then we tried another one where it was coming out from under the boat.
00:19:00
Speaker
But the problem is in order to have it eat the ball, it only comes up so far and you can barely see it.
00:19:07
Speaker
And it was just basically a moving scoop.
00:19:10
Speaker
And you know how I love scoops.
00:19:12
Speaker
So all of us kind of stood around us and said, this is stupid.
00:19:16
Speaker
It's like, right now have the shark pop way up, pop out really fast.
00:19:20
Speaker
And then you bash it and it disappears.
00:19:24
Speaker
I want to say this is kind of the first time, like, yeah, you have like the building on Godzilla and it's technically a bash toy, but you can shoot through it with this.
00:19:32
Speaker
It's like a straight up bash toy.
00:19:34
Speaker
Have you always wanted to do a bash toy?
00:19:35
Speaker
Is this just kind of, this is what it is because of the theme.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of what it is with the theme.
00:19:44
Speaker
I don't have a thing against bash toys.
00:19:46
Speaker
I think they can be pretty fun.
00:19:48
Speaker
I guess.
00:19:50
Speaker
Is it my first bash?
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:53
Speaker
I was going to say Iron Maiden, it's a ramp shot up the middle.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah, you have the mummy shot in Iron Maiden.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it is.
00:20:00
Speaker
I didn't even think of that.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
It was just, once we tried it as a bash toy, we all liked it so much better because it would just send the ball wherever the place.
00:20:16
Speaker
Like I said, the other thing, once it swallows the ball and goes under, okay, then what?
00:20:20
Speaker
We can't shoot another ball in there.
00:20:22
Speaker
And when it comes back up, it's either going to vomit it back out or if the scoop method, you're just going to fire it back at you, which is also strange.
00:20:29
Speaker
Why is a shark firing something on you?
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:34
Speaker
It was a team decision to ax that.
00:20:38
Speaker
I agree with your decision, by the way.
00:20:40
Speaker
I do, too.
00:20:40
Speaker
I just find it funny how much.
00:20:43
Speaker
The memes have been ridiculous.
00:20:44
Speaker
I don't know if this is like people really care or they're just.
00:20:47
Speaker
They're trolling.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, they're totally trolling.
00:20:50
Speaker
They're chumming.
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:51
Speaker
They control all they want.
00:20:52
Speaker
I don't care.
00:20:53
Speaker
I think I know what makes the game fun and what doesn't.
00:20:56
Speaker
I didn't like it.
00:20:57
Speaker
So.
00:20:59
Speaker
So suck it, community.
00:21:04
Speaker
No, it's great.
Innovative Mechanics
00:21:08
Speaker
I'm really liking the shark mech.
00:21:10
Speaker
It's very unique.
00:21:11
Speaker
The other thing I want to point out too, I've noticed that one of the things that you really like are captive balls.
00:21:17
Speaker
And in this game, the captive ball is the boat.
00:21:22
Speaker
And I find it interesting that the directional play from the ball inside the boat
00:21:28
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen something like this.
00:21:30
Speaker
Is there inspiration where this came from?
00:21:32
Speaker
I can't really think of another game where it does it.
00:21:34
Speaker
I don't think there is either.
00:21:36
Speaker
Unless there's some old EM.
00:21:39
Speaker
Well, it seems like a variation a little bit on the Amy shot, the Congo, where you're punching, but it seems like a step removed from it because you're hitting the ball and it's almost like a pool shot.
00:21:55
Speaker
Instead of the gorilla slapping the ball around, it's you slapping the ball around.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:58
Speaker
No, but it seems like a pool shot because you have the cue ball and then you're hitting another ball to hit a target.
00:22:04
Speaker
And that's, I don't know how many, this is the first time I can consider you have to hit the ball, a ball to hit another shot.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:15
Speaker
So that started off originally.
00:22:17
Speaker
It was more of a very target bash toy.
00:22:22
Speaker
So you had the back of the boat.
00:22:24
Speaker
You kind of hit the back of the boat, the back of the boat would kind of just give away a little bit and then supposed to push the ball back, but it ended up just like the ball would hit it, the ball would die and it would just dribble down.
00:22:35
Speaker
It was like, oh, this is terrible.
00:22:37
Speaker
So we went back to the drawing board and then I had the idea of, like you said, kind of not an omnidirectional, but more of a directional captive ball where I was like, hey, you know, since this thing is direct in the middle of the play field,
00:22:53
Speaker
perfectly horizontal, we can have a traveling captive ball in a little cage there that we can, depending on what direction I hit it, we can hit different targets.
00:23:02
Speaker
And so we tried it out.
00:23:04
Speaker
Oh, this is really cool.
00:23:06
Speaker
So the initial code, you had to hit later on the game, you had to hit each individual target with the captive ball in order to light the modes later in the game.
00:23:17
Speaker
But then
00:23:19
Speaker
It became more frustrating than fun.
00:23:20
Speaker
So now we save the actual having to hit a certain target with the ball for certain modes.
00:23:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:30
Speaker
So getting into that, you have mentioned a few times about code evolving.
00:23:37
Speaker
It seems like your games haven't had a major code overhaul.
00:23:40
Speaker
It seems like it's a natural progression.
00:23:43
Speaker
There are some other games that have had
00:23:45
Speaker
you know, almost complete reboots, Ghostbusters come to mind where it's almost in Walking Dead also comes to mind where it became almost a completely different game later on in the development cycle.
00:23:57
Speaker
But we haven't really seen that from you.
Code and Game Balance
00:24:01
Speaker
The question is, what would prompt the change in code and what does prompt it either from a minor standpoint or like a major overhaul?
00:24:15
Speaker
It does happen in my games.
00:24:16
Speaker
You just don't know about it because I catch it early.
00:24:21
Speaker
There was plenty of times.
00:24:23
Speaker
Godzilla, I remember that the way the city inserts worked were completely different.
00:24:31
Speaker
And with the direction we went, I just didn't like it.
00:24:35
Speaker
So we just changed it.
00:24:36
Speaker
Hey, you know, you just play this mode once in each city.
00:24:38
Speaker
You get your annihilation bonus or whatever.
00:24:41
Speaker
Move on.
00:24:42
Speaker
With Jaws,
00:24:45
Speaker
There were some minor things like the chum bucket.
00:24:47
Speaker
We kind of changed the rules on that.
00:24:49
Speaker
We changed the rules on the bash boat.
00:24:52
Speaker
So like I said, it was stuff that just was, you know, you're hitting a wall in gameplay wise just because, you know, something is a little too hard.
00:25:02
Speaker
So we changed things around.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like the chum bucket originally, you had to hit the chum bucket.
00:25:07
Speaker
And then I was like, well, this is too hard.
00:25:09
Speaker
And it's also, you know, when people bathe in the same thing 10 times, so.
00:25:13
Speaker
We added, like, once you chum the water, you know, it stays on water, it kind of moves around on the RGBs, kind of floats around the game, so you can hit those as well.
00:25:21
Speaker
You know, add some more flow to the game and make it less, you know, central, you know, bashing some central toy over and over.
00:25:28
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:25:29
Speaker
How do you decide what is, because obviously your games speak to all spectrums of the pinball player, from beginner to super expert.
00:25:39
Speaker
How do you balance these games out and figure the chum bucket is too hard or whatnot?
00:25:45
Speaker
Because I assume every game you play, you're very well rehearsed in playing it.
00:25:51
Speaker
Or you can obviously get deeper into it than, say, someone that's been only in the hobby for a year.
00:25:56
Speaker
How are you learning to balance these games for that?
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's a learning process.
00:26:02
Speaker
You know, I have, you know, other people play it and get their feedback.
00:26:07
Speaker
For this game, we hired Elizabeth Gieske, who's a, you guys probably saw her on the stream.
00:26:13
Speaker
She's a
00:26:15
Speaker
I think she came on the scene a couple of years ago, but she's already been hitting up the tournament.
00:26:19
Speaker
She's a very good player and she has a lot of good of ideas.
00:26:22
Speaker
And when she came on board, you know, we sort of started bouncing ideas back and forth.
00:26:26
Speaker
And one of the things I kept telling her and she agreed is her measurement was, does my mom understand this?
00:26:33
Speaker
And if not, maybe we should, you know, revisit it.
00:26:38
Speaker
And those words she said are, they ring so true.
00:26:40
Speaker
You know, if a novice player walks up to it,
00:26:43
Speaker
and is completely confused with what's going on, then we're not doing our job very well.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's like I said, this isn't for us.
00:26:49
Speaker
This isn't for tournament players.
00:26:50
Speaker
We gotta make something that everybody likes.
00:26:52
Speaker
So the key to that is make something easy, obvious goals up front with deep strategies later.
00:26:59
Speaker
Thanks.
00:27:02
Speaker
Okay, this is a submitted question.
00:27:06
Speaker
We know you have a lot of Easter eggs in your games.
00:27:10
Speaker
Can you give us some hints on some Easter eggs that we should be looking for in Josh?
00:27:16
Speaker
There's none yet.
00:27:17
Speaker
That's usually 1.0 stuff.
00:27:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:22
Speaker
Besides, so is Gary now going to become like the Stanley of Marvel?
00:27:25
Speaker
He's just going to show up randomly in the artwork?
00:27:27
Speaker
Because I noticed he's swimming in the water by the way.
00:27:30
Speaker
He's floating.
00:27:31
Speaker
He's not swimming.
00:27:32
Speaker
He's floating.
00:27:32
Speaker
He's chum.
00:27:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
Gary is chum in the water.
00:27:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
We put him in Godzilla, too, but I don't think many people found him.
00:27:39
Speaker
Oh.
00:27:40
Speaker
Where's he in Godzilla?
00:27:43
Speaker
He's on Mechagodzilla scaffolding with his... He's got a little chart with him.
00:27:49
Speaker
Oh, really?
00:27:50
Speaker
That's kind of funny.
00:27:51
Speaker
Because I know he's one of the aliens in Foo Fighters under the right upper flipper, if I remember correctly.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, we had fun hiding him in there, so we decided to do it again, but not as hidden.
00:28:04
Speaker
He's the new cow that just appears everywhere.
00:28:07
Speaker
Just find the Gary.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, find the Gary.
00:28:11
Speaker
Every game, we'll hide Gary somewhere.
00:28:15
Speaker
Can you kind of speak to, so when this game first revealed, or whatever that was, a lot of people were complaining about Brody, but then once we saw the footage and stuff, Brody is very predominant in all the video and stuff, but he's not really on the artwork.
00:28:30
Speaker
Can you kind of speak to, like, is that like a decision that you guys made, or is it something the licensor asked, hey, no Brody on the play field?
00:28:40
Speaker
So the way licensing works, there's likeness rights and the mechanical rights.
00:28:47
Speaker
So if he's in the movie, yeah, we can use it.
00:28:52
Speaker
In order to draw him, we need his permission.
00:28:54
Speaker
And his estate didn't even respond to us.
00:28:57
Speaker
Whereas we had to work with Dreyfus and the estate of... Shaw.
Licensing and Creative Projects
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah, Robert Shaw.
00:29:05
Speaker
Robert Shaw.
00:29:07
Speaker
and they worked with us.
00:29:08
Speaker
So we were able to draw them, you know, and, you know, pose them any way we want.
00:29:12
Speaker
And you see that in the artwork, but yeah, we, we couldn't get ahold of the Brody estate.
00:29:19
Speaker
Is that, is that kind of why you have, cause I know on the premium on the right side, it shows Brody, but it's kind of from the backside of him looking at the shark and that's kind of a scene from the movie.
00:29:29
Speaker
So is that why that's there?
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, because that was most likely a stunt double anyway.
00:29:33
Speaker
So, you know,
00:29:35
Speaker
Ah, that's fine.
00:29:36
Speaker
Every back looks the same, right?
00:29:38
Speaker
Yep.
00:29:40
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:29:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:42
Speaker
So we did, this is another question that my friend said.
00:29:45
Speaker
So you said three flippers when we talked to you last time and we were talking about the next game, three flippers on the right side.
00:29:53
Speaker
And he's like, okay, I'll give you, I'll give you points that they're all connected to the right side, but you know, okay.
00:30:00
Speaker
So can you give us a sneak peek?
00:30:02
Speaker
on the flipper count for your next game?
00:30:06
Speaker
Four.
00:30:08
Speaker
Nice.
00:30:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:10
Speaker
How many fins?
00:30:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:14
Speaker
Kidding.
00:30:14
Speaker
Kidding.
00:30:15
Speaker
I hear they make excellent natural ramps.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:30:19
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:30:21
Speaker
That was so bad.
00:30:23
Speaker
Break any, break any glasses with the, uh, with the jump shark.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:30
Speaker
We probably should have saw that.
00:30:35
Speaker
Well, we're glad that you tried it because you don't know until you try it, right?
00:30:39
Speaker
Well, here's the thing.
00:30:40
Speaker
When we test games, we generally don't have the glass on.
00:30:42
Speaker
So if we shoot them all completely outside the cabinet, we'd have a problem.
00:30:49
Speaker
That's impressive.
00:30:52
Speaker
So you've obviously had some extra time and whatnot, like Scott was saying.
00:30:55
Speaker
Can you tell me how many designs ahead you are or how many you've got in the pipelines?
00:31:00
Speaker
No, my time is occupied by Bond 60th there, which is why I'm not so far ahead of my next one.
00:31:07
Speaker
But that was actually my volunteering when I found out that, you know, this was getting pushed back a bit.
00:31:13
Speaker
I was like, well, you know, they're looking for someone to do Bond 60th.
00:31:16
Speaker
And I raised my hand and kind of worked out perfectly and kind of just snuck that entire design in while this design was already done.
00:31:23
Speaker
And before I started on my next design, which I didn't know what it was at the time.
00:31:27
Speaker
So it was just kind of a perfect,
00:31:30
Speaker
The holding pattern?
00:31:32
Speaker
A little availability for me to get to do a single level game, which I really like.
00:31:36
Speaker
I have mine upstairs.
00:31:38
Speaker
I love shooting it.
00:31:40
Speaker
It's a great game.
00:31:41
Speaker
It is fun to shoot.
00:31:42
Speaker
It's very unique.
00:31:44
Speaker
I'm glad you did it, too.
00:31:46
Speaker
Are you looking to do more outside of Cornerstones, or is Cornerstones the way forward and if something falls in your lap kind of situation?
00:31:53
Speaker
I'll always raise my hand to do a unique project.
00:31:56
Speaker
Nothing in the works right now.
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, the other thing too, Gomez actually pointed this out.
00:32:01
Speaker
I hadn't really thought about it, but you're kind of the king of the monsters right now.
00:32:04
Speaker
Like you, you're, you've done Godzilla and now like Jaws is kind of a monster.
00:32:09
Speaker
T-Rex was a monster.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:11
Speaker
So it's kind of your Eddie.
00:32:13
Speaker
Eddie is a monster.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:15
Speaker
So is this kind of a monster?
00:32:16
Speaker
Is this a signature for you?
00:32:18
Speaker
Or is this like a, I, you know, it's just the cards you've been dealt.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's fine with me.
00:32:27
Speaker
you know, whatever makes a fun game.
00:32:28
Speaker
And I think monsters kind of lend perfectly to that.
00:32:31
Speaker
So I'll keep doing them.
00:32:33
Speaker
It's fine with me.
00:32:34
Speaker
It beats doing music pins.
00:32:39
Speaker
Music pins sell.
00:32:41
Speaker
True.
00:32:44
Speaker
It doesn't mean you have a ton of creative freedom on them.
00:32:47
Speaker
Sure.
00:32:48
Speaker
So you're telling us you're not lining up for like a... You got Billy Joel coming out.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
Okay, I got one.
00:32:55
Speaker
Okay, go for it.
00:32:58
Speaker
We all know you're a big fan of classics games and kind of the retro feel of games.
00:33:04
Speaker
But obviously, the future of pinball has been changing into...
Connectivity in Pinball
00:33:10
Speaker
you know, you have insider connectivity, you have deeper code, like the stuff from Valley Williams, you know, the nineties stuff.
00:33:17
Speaker
It just, it doesn't cut it anymore because you have people who are buying the majority of these games and putting them in their homes.
00:33:24
Speaker
So they're really exploring.
00:33:26
Speaker
So what do you feel the future of pinball is moving toward?
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think you have to nail on the head.
00:33:34
Speaker
I think the more we can offer connectivity wise,
00:33:39
Speaker
the better experience you're going to have in a home.
00:33:41
Speaker
So like I said, what we're doing with JAWS is, you know, offering unlockable currency, kind of like when you play Call of Duty, you know, you're earning XP and you're unlocking skins or whatever.
00:33:51
Speaker
So that's kind of what we're doing with this.
00:33:53
Speaker
You're unlocking challenge modes, and I'm sure we'll figure out some other things you can unlock.
00:33:58
Speaker
You know, the leaderboards, I think, are going to be super cool for, like, the challenge modes.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like I said, when you're doing the video mode, which is, you know, completely different than pinball, it's a different skill set.
00:34:09
Speaker
So I'm really curious to see the leaderboards for our video mode challenge, and I think people are going to love that.
00:34:16
Speaker
Anything you can do to, you know, connect scores, compare them to other people, especially in the video mode because you can't take the glass off and cheat that.
00:34:23
Speaker
So I think it'll be super fun.
00:34:27
Speaker
Definitely.
00:34:28
Speaker
Oh, that's actually I was going to ask.
00:34:29
Speaker
I was like, how do you, how do you prevent cheating?
00:34:32
Speaker
I mean, obviously if you look at the score and it says Carl D'Angelo next to it, you're like, Oh, nevermind.
00:34:36
Speaker
But, but if, but if I'm beating Carl, then there's an issue.
00:34:40
Speaker
There's rubber bands on the outlanes.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
Well, that's why we have verified location and not.
00:34:44
Speaker
So if you're at Logan Arcade, you're probably not going to be the glass off cheating.
00:34:49
Speaker
Someone will see you.
00:34:50
Speaker
So, you know, can we 100% stop it?
00:34:54
Speaker
No, but we can put some safeguards in place.
00:34:59
Speaker
So your team stayed pretty consistent from all your designs and whatnot.
00:35:03
Speaker
And you typically bring a person in or two and whatnot.
00:35:06
Speaker
Liz seems to be the new person on this game.
00:35:08
Speaker
How has her help with contribution changed?
00:35:11
Speaker
has it changed kind of your process a little bit?
00:35:13
Speaker
Is it just been, I don't know.
00:35:15
Speaker
How, how has it changed things up for you?
00:35:19
Speaker
Uh, Liz is hit Liz, Elizabeth.
00:35:21
Speaker
I don't know if she even goes by Liz.
00:35:23
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:35:26
Speaker
Maybe she does.
00:35:27
Speaker
Um, she has basically implemented, uh, the rules I've written.
00:35:32
Speaker
She's also written some rules herself.
00:35:34
Speaker
Um, most notably, uh, casting catch and, uh, scars.
00:35:38
Speaker
Um,
00:35:39
Speaker
She's great because she'll put in what I write and she'll like, well, you know, I think this will work better this way.
00:35:46
Speaker
So she'll kind of tailor them to make them better because it's easier for her because she's right there programming it.
00:35:54
Speaker
She can make changes on the fly rather than having to make me a build and send it to me.
00:35:58
Speaker
Like I said, we bounce back and forth ideas.
00:36:00
Speaker
You know, how is the average person going to understand this?
00:36:02
Speaker
How are they going to understand that?
00:36:03
Speaker
And, you know, what can we do text-wise on a screen to help better understand what's going on?
00:36:09
Speaker
You know, she's a pinball genius, so, you know, you don't need to explain anything to her.
00:36:14
Speaker
She just picks up on everything right away and knows exactly, you know, how the mode should work, what makes it fun, and how best to explain it to both, you know, expert and novice players.
Keith's Career and Inspirations
00:36:26
Speaker
Now, we've talked about this before.
00:36:29
Speaker
Before you took your job at Stern, you played a lot more competitive pinball.
00:36:35
Speaker
But as you move to Stern, we all need a break from work, right?
00:36:40
Speaker
And so you have stepped a little bit back from the competitive pinball scene, even though you still show up for majors.
00:36:48
Speaker
Do you still get the same buzz by going to pinball tournaments that you used to?
00:36:53
Speaker
Not really.
00:36:57
Speaker
It was something I did for so long.
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean, my first tournament was in 1993.
00:37:00
Speaker
That's how long I've been doing it.
00:37:03
Speaker
And, well, when I lived in Carlsbad, I had a whole room full of games set up.
00:37:10
Speaker
Super tournament hard, you know, the outlanes gone, steep, wax, whatever.
00:37:14
Speaker
And that was kind of like my training ground for when I would go to a tournament.
00:37:18
Speaker
And now I have like, you know, three or four games that I don't really play at home.
00:37:23
Speaker
I live in the game I'm testing.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's like one or the other.
00:37:29
Speaker
It's really hard to focus on both.
00:37:34
Speaker
So one of the things that you've talked to us about before is when this game release, when your game releases, you're pretty much sick of it because you've been playing it nonstop for like two months prior.
00:37:46
Speaker
Same situation with Jaws, getting it prepared?
00:37:48
Speaker
Or since you had a break, is it kind of like refreshing coming back and be like, oh, yeah, I do remember this now?
00:37:56
Speaker
Well, yeah, I've been playing nothing but Jaws for the past six months.
00:37:59
Speaker
So yeah, when I went to Indus, you know, playing anything other than Jaws felt weird.
00:38:04
Speaker
And, you know, it's a hard feeling to describe.
00:38:06
Speaker
Like I said, you know, it's my own fault.
00:38:07
Speaker
I know I can go out and play other games, but I just haven't chosen to.
00:38:13
Speaker
And, you know, it's fine.
00:38:14
Speaker
I wouldn't say I'm sick of it.
00:38:15
Speaker
Like, I never got sick of Godzilla.
00:38:16
Speaker
I never got sick of Avengers.
00:38:17
Speaker
I never got sick of Iron Maiden or Jurassic.
00:38:20
Speaker
But there is a time where it's like, yeah, I'm good not playing it for a few weeks.
00:38:25
Speaker
you know, usually, you know, once we hit 1.0 and then we start like dabbling in the next game, then, uh, yeah, I'll take a break.
00:38:34
Speaker
And speaking of big tournaments, Pinberg is back.
00:38:36
Speaker
So, and, and you're the king of Pinberg, if I understand correctly.
00:38:39
Speaker
So you, you planning on being there or are they, I can't make it that weekend.
00:38:48
Speaker
Maybe you can play virtually.
00:38:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's all right.
00:38:52
Speaker
We'll, uh, we'll see next year.
00:38:54
Speaker
Maybe hopefully they'll grow some and,
00:38:56
Speaker
it won't fall in a weekend that already had plans, but yeah, I'm curious to see how it goes there.
00:39:01
Speaker
I'm excited that, you know, those guys were, I believe Doug is a screwheading this.
00:39:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:08
Speaker
If I remember correctly, Doug was on pinball profile with Jeff Teola.
00:39:12
Speaker
So if you want to hear more about that experience, go over and check that out.
00:39:15
Speaker
It was a really good interview.
00:39:18
Speaker
Now, you are in the new facility now.
00:39:21
Speaker
You have officially moved.
00:39:23
Speaker
Has that changed anything from what you are in charge of and what your plans are?
00:39:32
Speaker
No, but I lost my window view.
00:39:36
Speaker
I'm in a much bigger office now, but yeah, I did lose my view.
00:39:40
Speaker
But that's cool.
00:39:41
Speaker
I have my new office.
00:39:42
Speaker
I can probably cram six or seven machines in there.
00:39:47
Speaker
It's so much bigger than the old office.
00:39:49
Speaker
And yeah, the building is really cool.
00:39:52
Speaker
I'm sure you've seen footage of it and where we streamed the other night.
00:39:55
Speaker
You can see it over the farm, all the planners we have hanging up.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, it looks huge.
00:39:59
Speaker
It's really cool.
00:40:01
Speaker
Well, that's what made me chuckle too.
00:40:02
Speaker
So I was watching the videos between the new presentation video, which I loved, by the way, with Gomez and you.
00:40:08
Speaker
kind of just doing a brief five minute.
00:40:10
Speaker
This is what it is.
00:40:11
Speaker
That was great.
00:40:12
Speaker
Do that every time.
00:40:13
Speaker
Seriously.
00:40:15
Speaker
100%.
00:40:15
Speaker
But it was funny because I had been in the new facility and I saw that was in the lineup, like right as you walk through the front.
00:40:20
Speaker
It's not right as you walk in the front door, but if you walk in the front door, you can see over that location.
00:40:24
Speaker
I'm like, how'd you guys sneak that up front without you just guys not plan tours for that day?
00:40:29
Speaker
And you're like, okay, let's say we're sticking jaws up front and we're doing this, this presentation.
00:40:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of hard to see through all those doors.
00:40:41
Speaker
I know what you're talking about.
00:40:42
Speaker
You can kind of see through the whole building there, but it's really hard to make anything out.
00:40:49
Speaker
Trust me, we've all tried.
00:40:52
Speaker
Can we see that from there?
00:40:54
Speaker
I guess we really can't.
00:40:57
Speaker
It seems like at any given time, there is a Keith Elwin game on the line.
00:41:05
Speaker
Does that put pressure on you?
00:41:08
Speaker
with your next games?
00:41:09
Speaker
I mean, obviously Godzilla was, to put it bluntly, a monster.
00:41:16
Speaker
It's highly rated.
00:41:19
Speaker
It really did the unthinkable and it took over Medieval Madness for the number one ranking, which Medieval Madness has been there forever.
00:41:27
Speaker
Was there any concern with you coming out with the next game to say, wow, I hit a huge high mark on my last game.
00:41:35
Speaker
How was this one going to be received?
00:41:38
Speaker
I mean, I can't think like that.
00:41:39
Speaker
I just got to like, hey, here's what I have to work with.
00:41:44
Speaker
Here's what I'm thinking.
00:41:44
Speaker
Let's try to make this work.
00:41:48
Speaker
I take, you know, not to sound too baseball-y, but, you know, one game at a time and not worry about what I did in the past other than I'm trying not to repeat designs, which is
00:41:58
Speaker
One of the reasons that this game kind of, if you walk up to it, it looks different than my other designs.
00:42:04
Speaker
It's because I'm trying something new.
00:42:06
Speaker
It's like, you walk up, you look at it, oh, these shots look familiar, but then when you shoot them, they go a completely different path than what you're expecting.
00:42:13
Speaker
So I was trying something a little out of the box for me, and I think it worked.
00:42:18
Speaker
I really like the way it flows.
00:42:21
Speaker
So you spoke that you worked on Jurassic Park 30th.
00:42:24
Speaker
What'd you do to help kind of bring that to fruition and what's different about that?
00:42:28
Speaker
It kind of looks like just an art package slapped on, but it sounds like there's more that was involved.
00:42:34
Speaker
Well, it was the adding the whole co-op stuff was a very time consuming and stuff that we had to, you know, we had to dry out saying, okay, what, what can we share?
00:42:43
Speaker
What can we not share?
00:42:45
Speaker
It was,
00:42:47
Speaker
very time consuming to figure out, you know, what, how to balance it between the teams.
00:42:53
Speaker
So if this person lights, you know, two control rooms, does this mean the third person only has this one option left?
00:42:59
Speaker
A lot more goes in the co-op than you might realize.
00:43:05
Speaker
I didn't even know that was it.
00:43:07
Speaker
So is that, so I have an LE, is that on the LE also now?
00:43:12
Speaker
Every Jurassic Park has it now.
00:43:13
Speaker
So that was the benefit of doing the 30th is that everyone's game now has co-op.
00:43:19
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:43:19
Speaker
So the flipper buttons, you'll see the co-op menu.
00:43:21
Speaker
You know, there's co-op, three against one, two on two, one on one.
00:43:26
Speaker
And yeah, I think there's something else.
00:43:32
Speaker
I don't remember.
00:43:33
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:43:33
Speaker
So definitely check that out.
00:43:34
Speaker
I didn't even know that was a thing.
00:43:37
Speaker
Nor did I. Yeah, that's... You asked what was so time consuming.
00:43:41
Speaker
It was...
00:43:42
Speaker
you know, Raymond helped with that too.
00:43:44
Speaker
Rick Raymond and myself just kind of like sat down and it's like, well, this is what it's going to be.
00:43:49
Speaker
This is what it's going to share.
00:43:50
Speaker
This is what's not going to share.
00:43:51
Speaker
This is how this is going to work under this circumstance.
00:43:54
Speaker
And it was very complicated.
00:43:58
Speaker
All the UI works.
00:43:59
Speaker
And now we're showing like each team is now color coded and where they are respective to each other on the map.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:06
Speaker
A lot of work went into that, Rick, you know,
00:44:08
Speaker
Rick and Raymond really busted their butt on that.
00:44:11
Speaker
So is it kind of similar to Turtles where everyone works together?
00:44:15
Speaker
If one person gets to a mini wizard mode, everyone gets to the mini wizard mode?
00:44:19
Speaker
On your team, yes.
00:44:20
Speaker
Or it depends what it is.
00:44:22
Speaker
Some of them, like King of the Island, I know that whoever gets to it first gets to it.
00:44:26
Speaker
But I think most of them are set up that if one person gets there, it's live for the next person.
00:44:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was not aware.
00:44:34
Speaker
I don't feel like this was pushed at all.
00:44:35
Speaker
I didn't know there was co-op at all.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:37
Speaker
That's funny because Scott owns the game too.
00:44:43
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:44:45
Speaker
I just did a major rehaul on my room and I brought down Godzilla.
00:44:50
Speaker
I brought down Rush and I brought... So I've been playing those a lot more because they were in my garage and they were so cold.
00:44:57
Speaker
So it's nice to have them down now.
00:45:02
Speaker
So yeah, I finally got Iron Maiden and Godzilla in the same room.
00:45:08
Speaker
We got more call outs added too.
00:45:10
Speaker
Rick Zeke came and did another session for us for the Jurassic Park call out.
00:45:14
Speaker
So yeah, it was a solid update.
00:45:19
Speaker
That's great to know.
00:45:21
Speaker
So I've noticed Jaws is Spielberg.
00:45:27
Speaker
Jurassic Park is Spielberg.
00:45:29
Speaker
Is there any Spielberg like
00:45:31
Speaker
movie you you would just die to do is spielberg are you a fan of spielberg or duel man duel duel yeah i don't know what duel is that's his first movie oh is it nope it's basically it's basically jaws it's a big truck it's chasing a little car and you know wow i've i've never heard this now i'm gonna have to look this up yeah
00:45:56
Speaker
You guys should watch it.
00:45:58
Speaker
Be like George Luke doing a George Lucas.
00:46:00
Speaker
That was a THX one, five, seven or whatever that, that sci-fi movie he did before he did star Wars.
00:46:10
Speaker
I'll have to check this out.
00:46:12
Speaker
That is pretty random.
00:46:13
Speaker
All right.
00:46:14
Speaker
So I'm just so much older than you guys.
00:46:17
Speaker
That's, that's not true.
00:46:19
Speaker
I, I, I turned 50 this year.
00:46:23
Speaker
To be fair, it was one of my mom's favorite movies.
00:46:26
Speaker
So when I was a kid, she would say, oh, it's on.
00:46:28
Speaker
Watch it.
00:46:28
Speaker
That's how I knew about it.
00:46:30
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:46:30
Speaker
Well, if you rewound to what my mom watched all the time, it was Murder, She Wrote.
00:46:34
Speaker
So if you want to do a Murder, She Wrote pinball machine, that would be great.
00:46:39
Speaker
I would be all in.
00:46:42
Speaker
I think she's actually a serial killer, though.
00:46:44
Speaker
She's in a very small town in Maine, and everybody dies.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah, everybody dies.
00:46:49
Speaker
Like she's the one who's doing it all.
00:46:52
Speaker
It's just like a diehard Bruce Willis, wherever he goes.
00:46:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:55
Speaker
Stay away.
00:46:55
Speaker
Stay away.
00:46:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:58
Speaker
So in keeping with the theme of the, of the water.
00:47:05
Speaker
So if you are on a desert Island and you could only have one triple drain guy.
00:47:14
Speaker
So you have Joel, you have Tom and you have Travis.
00:47:19
Speaker
Who would you want on the Island and why?
00:47:22
Speaker
I had deserted.
00:47:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:26
Speaker
So I saw cast away and I saw his two things.
00:47:31
Speaker
So I'm taking Tom.
00:47:33
Speaker
You're thinking Tom.
00:47:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:35
Speaker
Oh, you know what?
00:47:35
Speaker
That is, that's hilarious.
00:47:37
Speaker
I didn't even think about that.
00:47:38
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:47:39
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:47:41
Speaker
Which is funny because Tom's follow up question is why don't you like him?
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:48
Speaker
any kind of tooth pain tom what's going on that's right you know what that's yeah i'll drive him nuts yeah that hey you know what you you went a completely different direction i just thought like joel would be better at back rubs travis would do feet rubs travis could cook i'm not exactly sure but toothache you know what i i'm with you on that uh my job is to take away pain too so i i'm totally on board with that
00:48:13
Speaker
Scott's making anesthesia out of like coconut husks.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
Blending coconuts.
00:48:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:18
Speaker
And that'd be great.
00:48:20
Speaker
You can just grab a nice skate.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:26
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:48:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:27
Speaker
All time favorite game from the seventies and all time favorite game from the eighties.
00:48:33
Speaker
From the seventies.
00:48:35
Speaker
Oh.
00:48:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:38
Speaker
That's a tough one.
00:48:42
Speaker
I guess.
00:48:43
Speaker
I would have to say Harlem.
00:48:44
Speaker
And I remember being at the bowling alley when they unboxed that.
00:48:48
Speaker
I was just a little kid.
00:48:49
Speaker
I was like, wow, this game is so cool.
00:48:51
Speaker
Because I was, you know, a little kid into the Harlem Globetrotters.
00:48:53
Speaker
I was like, I had to play that thing for days.
00:48:57
Speaker
If you haven't.
00:48:59
Speaker
I just set my torpedo alley back up.
00:49:02
Speaker
And I was like, man, 80s are so bumpy.
00:49:04
Speaker
Oh, you mean the painted on pants?
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah, painted on pants.
00:49:09
Speaker
Those are really awkward.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:19
Speaker
Whirlwind really stands out to me as one of my favorite 80s games.
00:49:23
Speaker
And then, of course, the classic valleys, you know, Frontier Skateball.
00:49:26
Speaker
Sure.
00:49:27
Speaker
You're going to make me choose one?
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah, it is a desert island.
00:49:32
Speaker
We're still on the desert island.
00:49:33
Speaker
I'm definitely taking Whirlwind.
00:49:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:37
Speaker
That's a really good choice.
00:49:38
Speaker
And the big one, the 90s.
00:49:42
Speaker
One Desert Island pin from the 90s.
00:49:43
Speaker
I'm going to have to say Congo.
00:49:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:50
Speaker
Nice.
00:49:50
Speaker
I've got to add.
00:49:53
Speaker
It's probably my favorite shooting 90s game.
00:49:56
Speaker
It's a good one.
00:49:57
Speaker
It's a good one.
00:49:57
Speaker
It really is.
00:49:58
Speaker
There's not as many produced as people thought.
00:50:02
Speaker
No.
00:50:03
Speaker
No.
00:50:04
Speaker
I think a lot of them got converted to a monster bash.
00:50:07
Speaker
I remember back in the day in search of Congo to part out and convert to a monster bash.
00:50:13
Speaker
And there was one there.
00:50:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:15
Speaker
There was one that was like a black and white option too.
00:50:18
Speaker
If I remember.
00:50:19
Speaker
I think there was some kind of kid or something.
00:50:20
Speaker
I don't, I don't really remember.
00:50:23
Speaker
I know somebody has a hairy one that they used to bring next to them.
00:50:25
Speaker
Had a gorilla for on the outside of it.
00:50:27
Speaker
It was very strange to play.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like it was rubbing hair on your hands as you flip the buttons.
00:50:34
Speaker
The entire cabinet was covered in fur.
00:50:37
Speaker
It's a wow.
00:50:40
Speaker
That sound insulation, you know, you play that and the sound doesn't go anywhere.
00:50:44
Speaker
That's a good point.
00:50:46
Speaker
But yeah, it was kind of an interesting mod.
00:50:48
Speaker
I knew that because I never thought it was weird growing up that my parents put carpet on the walls.
00:50:53
Speaker
I legitimately carpet on the wall.
00:50:55
Speaker
Like you go to Graceland and you see the carpet on the ceiling and people think it's so weird.
00:50:59
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't know.
00:50:59
Speaker
I just, I grew up with that.
00:51:02
Speaker
That I figured out that my parents were like, you know what?
00:51:04
Speaker
You guys are down there and loud.
00:51:06
Speaker
So just shut up.
00:51:09
Speaker
So are you going to try to do more upper play fields or is this kind of like one and done kind of thing or never say never, but, um,
00:51:19
Speaker
We'll see.
00:51:19
Speaker
Okay.
Gameplay Mechanics and Design
00:51:20
Speaker
The, the horizontal spinners though, that's, uh, did that prime the, okay.
00:51:27
Speaker
Did you do this first or cause you have them on, uh, bond 60.
00:51:33
Speaker
This is a completely different type.
00:51:35
Speaker
Um, if you're familiar with the Jurassic park, uh, premium, the helicopter spinner, it's more, it's more based on that or it's a top loaded disc.
00:51:46
Speaker
with playfield underneath it, whereas the Bond 60, if it's actually a mechanism that comes up from underneath the playfield, it's completely routed out whole.
00:51:56
Speaker
And the ball hits post on the disc itself, whereas this, it's all completely above the playfield.
00:52:03
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:52:04
Speaker
It's a lot lighter.
00:52:07
Speaker
I do like that when you hit that spinner, cause like you have to reel in your shark with it.
00:52:11
Speaker
That is as cool that it sounds like an actual reel reeling in your shark.
00:52:15
Speaker
Like, well, I needed something to slow the ball down because without that, if you take that thing off that ball, which around there is so incredibly fast that it's, it's just crazy.
00:52:26
Speaker
So I needed something to slow it down and a standard spinner would not do it.
00:52:30
Speaker
So I was like, well, you know, I can,
00:52:32
Speaker
Thinus is a fishing reel and use a disc.
00:52:35
Speaker
It's a metal disc with plastic on top and it's counterweighted to always go to the same spot.
00:52:40
Speaker
And that creates a lot of weight.
00:52:41
Speaker
So it really slows the ball down.
00:52:43
Speaker
So it feeds the figure eight, you know, catch portion of the mini flipper.
00:52:46
Speaker
So that's where that was born.
00:52:48
Speaker
And then I used it again in the upper play field because it kind of just fit perfectly.
00:52:53
Speaker
There's the ship's wheel.
00:52:56
Speaker
I wonder if I can install that on Godzilla because basically the repeatable shot from the upper flipper, I can get it twice and then it's going way too fast.
00:53:06
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:53:08
Speaker
Godzilla, man, if you keep that thing waxed, it is so hard.
00:53:12
Speaker
Jaws is the same way.
00:53:13
Speaker
It is a really fast game.
00:53:15
Speaker
You don't realize it until you're in front of it.
00:53:17
Speaker
That center ramp just whips so quickly right back at you.
00:53:21
Speaker
I'm hearing very positive reviews from people that have already got to play these in arcades and whatnot.
00:53:26
Speaker
And that's one of the first things they say is it's a very fast mover, and they weren't expecting the upper playfield to – you have to get used to it because it just goes so fast.
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm reading these stream comments, nobody's shooting the upper playfield.
00:53:41
Speaker
It's like, no, we are.
00:53:42
Speaker
You just don't see it because it's so fast.
00:53:46
Speaker
You'll see it.
00:53:48
Speaker
When you play at the upper playfield, yeah, you have about one second to aim and flip, and then the ball's gone.
00:53:57
Speaker
So like I said, it's a flow-based upper play field.
00:54:01
Speaker
I get that on stream that probably doesn't really come across too well, but when you're playing it, I actually, I really like it.
00:54:08
Speaker
I like it too, because it rewards you for making the shot and it punishes you if you don't like if you miss it drains right down or not drains, but it shoots it towards the middle of the flippers.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:21
Speaker
That was one of the first things I noticed.
00:54:22
Speaker
I was like, man, this upper play field just looks like it's got so many unique shot combinations.
00:54:27
Speaker
What's the top different amount of shot combos you can do?
00:54:31
Speaker
Like, if you're stringing a bunch of shots together, what's the most you can string together?
00:54:37
Speaker
I don't know.
00:54:38
Speaker
I didn't think about it.
00:54:39
Speaker
We don't have a standard combo system on this game.
00:54:42
Speaker
We have modes that are combo-based.
00:54:45
Speaker
But yeah, I don't know.
00:54:47
Speaker
I know Iron Maiden was 6-6.
00:54:49
Speaker
I think Jurassic was six.
00:54:53
Speaker
If you can do more than six, then you're doing something good.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:57
Speaker
It seems like the left out lane is significantly lower than the right out lane.
00:55:04
Speaker
Um, is there, does that feed into, into the design process?
00:55:09
Speaker
Because the bottom line is the, the kickers, the, the, the goal of the kickers is to shoot it toward the outline and it's too.
00:55:16
Speaker
So how does that change when you're, when your kickers are roughly the same, because it doesn't really, at least just from my eye, it doesn't seem like it's shooting to the outline.
00:55:28
Speaker
Um, yeah, it probably doesn't.
00:55:30
Speaker
Um, it really, um,
00:55:33
Speaker
Slingshots are fairly safe on this game.
00:55:34
Speaker
And first for me, they're non-symmetrical slingshots.
00:55:41
Speaker
The right one was smaller than the left one.
00:55:44
Speaker
And that was to accommodate the ball screaming down the left lane and feeding the in lane.
00:55:52
Speaker
So, yeah, I'm not a huge fan of slingshots that just dump the ball in the out lane.
00:55:56
Speaker
I think they create enough chaos as it is that they don't need to do that too.
00:56:00
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:56:01
Speaker
That's one of the reasons why I make games.
00:56:03
Speaker
I've always had the slingshots further back as well.
00:56:06
Speaker
But you also have, and you have two posts down on, on each side on Jurassic park.
00:56:10
Speaker
You just had one that left.
00:56:12
Speaker
And so is it, tell me about that.
00:56:15
Speaker
It seems a little bit like cactus Canyon where it'll, it'll freeze it.
00:56:19
Speaker
And is there something that pops up that you have to shoot like a time shot or, or what's the point of those?
00:56:25
Speaker
Uh, only on the first, um,
00:56:28
Speaker
the first time when you're first starting multiball when you have time hitting the fin target, the post will come up, it'll be, you know, shoot it, shoot it now, and then releases and you have to shoot the moving fin.
00:56:39
Speaker
That's the only time we're using a timed feature like that.
00:56:43
Speaker
We tried it, you know, for every one of the lock shots, as it were, and Elizabeth's like, oh, God, I hate this post, and I'm like, yeah, me too, so we just
00:56:53
Speaker
We'll just do it for the first one to introduce people to the mechanic and make this little mini moment.
00:56:58
Speaker
And then we'll just use it to stop the ball for our mode starts and whatnot after that.
00:57:04
Speaker
Can you not post transfer on this one?
00:57:06
Speaker
Because I know with Godzilla, you really can't.
00:57:10
Speaker
These are looking pretty far back.
00:57:11
Speaker
I mean, all my games you can.
00:57:13
Speaker
It's just harder than... You just have to be better, Josh.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:57:17
Speaker
Play better.
00:57:20
Speaker
Okay, I will say after moving my Godzilla downstairs, I don't know if the way it's set up, hitting that scoop is one of the hardest shots, like for some reason.
00:57:31
Speaker
And I don't know if like maybe the play field is not leveled to the right, but sometimes I nail it and it just kicks right back out.
00:57:39
Speaker
I will say if you have aftermarket flipper rubber, it might be impossible to do a post-pass on flipper.
00:57:47
Speaker
with the standard black factory rubber, it's possible.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:51
Speaker
I've got to ask.
00:57:52
Speaker
So it's really random.
00:57:52
Speaker
I don't know if people have seen this picture.
00:57:54
Speaker
I'll probably put it as, as the podcast picture, but it's you Richard Dreyfuss and Jody Dankberg for some odd
Recording Anecdotes and Trivia
00:58:01
Speaker
reason.
00:58:01
Speaker
He's holding up a little donut.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:03
Speaker
What's up with the donut.
00:58:05
Speaker
And why is Richard look like he's so ticked in the picture?
00:58:07
Speaker
Like he just doesn't.
00:58:11
Speaker
He hurt himself playing tickle ball like a couple of days before we recorded.
00:58:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
He was on some meds and he needed to eat donuts.
00:58:22
Speaker
He needed some sugar.
00:58:23
Speaker
He needed to eat donuts and I think he had some Diet Dr. Pepper or something with him.
00:58:28
Speaker
And then he had a few donuts left over.
00:58:30
Speaker
So when we're done recording, he handed both Jody and I a donut.
00:58:33
Speaker
You guys want a donut?
00:58:36
Speaker
So we posed with the donut.
00:58:38
Speaker
Hey, if you post with the donut, that's a good thing.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:43
Speaker
It's like, Hey, I got a donut from Richard drivers today.
00:58:45
Speaker
Of course I can't post that because you know, the secret, right.
00:58:50
Speaker
You actually kept it home when you put in a plexiglass and it's on your desk now.
00:58:54
Speaker
So I think, I think Jody did.
00:58:56
Speaker
I think Jody had him sign it.
00:58:58
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:58:59
Speaker
Well, how was it working with Richard and the call outs?
00:59:03
Speaker
Oh, it was great.
00:59:04
Speaker
It was funny.
00:59:05
Speaker
He, um,
00:59:07
Speaker
it's like almost like he didn't know what he was recording he was thinking yeah so so this casino game i was like oh no the pinball machine he's like oh okay that makes a lot more sense like i said i know he i know he had a rough couple days because of his pickleball injuries um but yeah we have jody and i were both excited for him to show up he showed up and he was really nice cordial and then
00:59:32
Speaker
let me know what you want.
00:59:33
Speaker
So he went through and read everything way too fast.
00:59:35
Speaker
And so we're like, oh yeah, can you slow this down a little bit and a little more emphasis on here and there.
00:59:42
Speaker
I really hope that you got him to do the what about Bob call out where, um, where he's, he's tied to the boat.
00:59:48
Speaker
He's like, I'm sailing, I'm sailing.
00:59:50
Speaker
I did get him to say this means something.
00:59:55
Speaker
Close encounters.
00:59:58
Speaker
I don't think he understood.
01:00:01
Speaker
That was a long time ago.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:03
Speaker
77 or something.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
Next time we're playing with our mashed potatoes.
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:08
Speaker
Bust that clip out.
01:00:09
Speaker
Hey, did you know that this is weird trivia with Steven Spielberg and George Lucas?
01:00:13
Speaker
Did you know that they had a bet on which movie would make more money?
01:00:19
Speaker
Star Wars and Close Encounters.
01:00:21
Speaker
And so they each gave each other a small portion of the movie as the bet.
01:00:31
Speaker
And Star Wars, obviously Star Wars completely obliterated Close Encounters, but they were both, George Lucas was confident that Close Encounters was gonna make way more money.
01:00:44
Speaker
I liked it, the movie as a kid.
01:00:46
Speaker
I really enjoyed it.
01:00:47
Speaker
The pinball machine came out, I was like, yeah, and then I started playing it.
01:00:50
Speaker
Wow, this sucks.
01:00:53
Speaker
That is the worst when you have a dream theme and you go and play it and you're like, yeah, I think I can pass on that.
01:00:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:00
Speaker
The 70s were tough for Gowley.
01:01:02
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:03
Speaker
So when you were storyboarding, was Quint and shark hunting always kind of the, this is the way we're going?
01:01:09
Speaker
Or did you have any other storyboards for?
01:01:11
Speaker
Well, I mean, this is kind of a tough license to work with as far as like things to do pinball wise.
01:01:17
Speaker
So we had to come up with a way to kind of, you know, fill some space.
01:01:22
Speaker
And one of those ways is, well, how does Quint earn a living?
01:01:24
Speaker
Well, he's a bounty hunter.
01:01:26
Speaker
He basically goes after sharks and, you know, collects a reward on them.
01:01:29
Speaker
So we decided to integrate that into the game itself.
01:01:33
Speaker
And so we took all sharks that they mentioned in the movie, or at least Dreyfus mentioned in the movie, or, you know, Quint did in stories.
01:01:38
Speaker
And then we, you know, that's how we came up with the four other sharks.
01:01:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:01:43
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:44
Speaker
I was going to say, yeah, because I just watched Jaws recently this past couple of weeks and I was noticing that all the sharks that were in the movie, you'd put a game like the tiger shark and the Mako and whatnot.
01:01:53
Speaker
So.
01:01:54
Speaker
Well, and you have the license plate, right?
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:57
Speaker
And the license plate that you took out of the, was it a tiger shark or like in the movie, I can't remember which shark they pull it out of the gut and they're like, oh yeah, this is it.
01:02:06
Speaker
It's like, there's the tiger shark.
01:02:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:10
Speaker
It's actually part of the player screen in the top middle.
01:02:13
Speaker
It tells you what ball.
01:02:13
Speaker
Exactly.
01:02:14
Speaker
It's from Louisiana.
01:02:17
Speaker
So, Keith, I mean, obviously Stern did Baywatch and it had a shark in it.
01:02:21
Speaker
Did you guys think about repurposing that and putting that in this game?
01:02:26
Speaker
We thought about it.
01:02:28
Speaker
We do not know where that tool is anymore.
01:02:32
Speaker
The tool for the flipper mech?
01:02:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:35
Speaker
It was actually a topper.
01:02:38
Speaker
Oh, it was?
01:02:39
Speaker
Yeah, it was built into the top of a mini flipper.
01:02:42
Speaker
It wasn't all one molded piece.
01:02:44
Speaker
Oh, really?
01:02:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:46
Speaker
I didn't know that.
01:02:49
Speaker
And then Baywatch has, it's kind of like Phantom Flip for Monster Bash and whatnot.
01:02:54
Speaker
Did you guys ever consider putting that in with this?
01:02:56
Speaker
I hate that.
01:02:58
Speaker
Okay, seriously, that shot never works, by the way.
01:03:01
Speaker
Trust me, nothing that Baywatch is thought about during this game, other than that they're both blue.
01:03:05
Speaker
Wait, you mean you don't have a Pamela Anderson cameo running across the screen, away from the shark?
01:03:10
Speaker
That's the Easter egg right there.
01:03:12
Speaker
That's the Easter egg.
01:03:13
Speaker
That's the best video mode ever.
01:03:18
Speaker
That definitely has to be in the 3D.
01:03:21
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:03:22
Speaker
Wow.
01:03:24
Speaker
Hold on.
01:03:24
Speaker
I'm getting my 3D glasses.
01:03:29
Speaker
That is great.
01:03:30
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:30
Speaker
Actually, that is one thing I didn't bring up.
01:03:32
Speaker
We didn't bring up.
01:03:33
Speaker
So you have the 3D mode.
01:03:34
Speaker
And so you have the glasses.
01:03:36
Speaker
How does that work?
01:03:37
Speaker
Do you like, okay, you got the move and you just throw them on real quick.
01:03:40
Speaker
Cause you can, you can enable it or you can disable it obviously.
01:03:43
Speaker
But I mean, it's, it's kind of a fun little Easter egg tidbit thing because Jaws, Jaws was 3d, like Jaws 3 was Jaws 3d.
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's just a fun little thing we thought of because when we're, you know, doing this video based on an old rifle game where you're, you know, you're standing at a rifle and you're looking depth wise, you know, technically you're looking straight ahead, but it's a mirror and you're looking down to gives you this great
3D Mode and Sound Effects
01:04:10
Speaker
depth.
01:04:10
Speaker
So I was like, what if we can, you know, if we use 3D, we can kind of simulate, you know, the sharks are back here and then they're marking their way towards you.
01:04:19
Speaker
Our art guys took a few stabs on it and they were like, well, yeah, check it out.
01:04:22
Speaker
This actually works.
01:04:23
Speaker
Cool.
01:04:24
Speaker
So yeah.
01:04:25
Speaker
And then George sat and he's like, oh my God, this is awesome.
01:04:27
Speaker
We're going to include 3D glasses with every game.
01:04:29
Speaker
I was like, oh, awesome.
01:04:32
Speaker
That's fun.
01:04:34
Speaker
Now you can buy your Stern pin gulp for your machine.
01:04:37
Speaker
So hold your glasses.
01:04:38
Speaker
There you go.
01:04:38
Speaker
Hold your glasses.
01:04:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:40
Speaker
The glasses were mainly meant for the challenge mode when you're playing multiple levels.
01:04:44
Speaker
I don't expect you to rip out the glasses to play the 20-second video mode and then take them off.
01:04:49
Speaker
You can.
01:04:50
Speaker
That's why we left that option in there.
01:04:51
Speaker
But realistically, it's for the challenge mode.
01:04:54
Speaker
Oh, okay.
01:04:55
Speaker
That actually, that does play into my childhood because I swear every single, like three books, like from the book fair, they were huge when I was a kid.
01:05:05
Speaker
Like for some reason, it's like, I don't know.
01:05:07
Speaker
And also the paint by dots where it had the paint already there and you just put like water on them.
01:05:13
Speaker
They blend it all together.
01:05:15
Speaker
That was definitely the childhood.
01:05:16
Speaker
Our art guys all ruined their vision to make this one possible.
01:05:22
Speaker
Zach would be wearing his glasses for so long.
01:05:25
Speaker
He would take them off.
01:05:26
Speaker
He's like, if I look at a white wall and close one eye, it's completely red.
01:05:29
Speaker
It's cyan.
01:05:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:32
Speaker
So I tried it too.
01:05:32
Speaker
I put the glasses on for like a minute to come off.
01:05:35
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:05:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:36
Speaker
The color of the wall is changing.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yep.
01:05:38
Speaker
It takes a good, it takes a good 20 minutes for your vision to get back to normal.
01:05:42
Speaker
How do you find, cause when you're playing this mode, it's like the old school bells and reels.
01:05:47
Speaker
The clicker mode.
01:05:49
Speaker
Like how did you get those sounds without like telling, like telling one, like we need to find this machine to get it sounds.
01:05:55
Speaker
Jerry has quite a big catalog of the electromechanical sounds.
01:05:59
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:59
Speaker
Okay.
01:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, because I'm like, it sounds pretty spot on to what was in the movie.
01:06:03
Speaker
And I've never played this game.
01:06:04
Speaker
I heard it's not that like the 70s games, not that great.
01:06:08
Speaker
It's awful.
01:06:09
Speaker
Most of those games are terrible.
01:06:11
Speaker
Like if you buy it is awful.
01:06:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:14
Speaker
If you buy a lot of those games and put them in your house, you'll play them for like five minutes because there's a reason why you put a quarter in.
01:06:21
Speaker
And that was kind of the attention level that that game deserved.
01:06:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:26
Speaker
There are some shooting games I really enjoy.
01:06:28
Speaker
Most of the older ones.
01:06:30
Speaker
That one is from, that one uses, I think it uses like a projector.
01:06:34
Speaker
So kind of projector to project sharks like floating around.
01:06:38
Speaker
It's kind of weird.
01:06:39
Speaker
I just, I just remember the, there was one that was called battle zone where you put your head in like this, this little, you know, it was like a periscope type thing, but yeah, that was a similar type thing, but I think that was a vector game.
01:06:54
Speaker
I think that pretty much does it for all the questions we have.
01:06:57
Speaker
So I'm going to wrap this up.
01:07:02
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of with Keith, you just don't, right?
01:07:05
Speaker
Like don't send him memes of sharking ball.
01:07:10
Speaker
Just wave at him on a show.
01:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:16
Speaker
I gotta mention though, I ran into you at Expo and we were chit chatting and it was funny because I brought my little Godzilla card for you to sign and not even like five minutes before your girlfriend or whatever was like people really having you sign things and then here I walk up and can you sign this for me?
01:07:32
Speaker
Hey can you sign this?
01:07:34
Speaker
Yeah, she doesn't get why people like me, I don't either so fine.
01:07:40
Speaker
Okay, well, that's kind of back to when I think George was on a date and he took his date to a pinball place and someone recognized him and she's looking at him like, who are you?
01:07:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:53
Speaker
Getting a walk down the street, man.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:56
Speaker
Terrible.
01:07:58
Speaker
It's hard being pinball famous, I know.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, pinball famous.
01:08:02
Speaker
Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
01:08:05
Speaker
On the socials, we're at Loser Kid Pinball.
01:08:07
Speaker
That's Facebook, Twitter, X, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, all that jazz.
01:08:12
Speaker
Make sure to subscribe and like.
01:08:17
Speaker
Give us our last word, Scott.
01:08:19
Speaker
We're going to need a bigger boat.
01:08:23
Speaker
Thank you.