Transcript
Rich: Welcome to episode 564 of the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast. We're your hosts, coaches Rich Soares and Kristen Overton, and we are on a mission to help endurance athletes train smarter, race stronger, and build the grit it takes to achieve greatness.
Rich: Today, we are joined by Dr. Jamie Beauvais. Founder of Kinetic Chain Physical Therapy and Unstoppable Red Light Health and Wellness in Denver, Jamie's work centers on helping helping active adults keep doing what they love.
Rich: We'll explore what endurance athletes can learn from metabolic data, strength and load capacity. and how to ask better questions about recovery tools. from. FST?
Jamie: Yep.
Rich: FST. cupping to shockwave therapy dry needling and red light What helps an athlete build a durable foundation and how we judge whether we are at. Added treatment is worth considering.
Rich: first question for you dr jamie fst what are we talking about
Jamie: FST is... fascial stretch therapy. So fascia is lots of times the connective tissue between the muscles and the skin, but, you know, has a lot of nerve endings and is
Rich: Nice.
Jamie: When I was in PT school, it was kind of just thought as another tissue, not something we really looked into a whole lot. But now we know. very very impactful for athletes both for mobility but also the nervous system and how we move and how we generate power and force so being able to work the fascia is just a new avenue into improved performance.
Rich: And now you've heard Dr. Beauvais. voiced You know who he is. And thanks for answering that question completely out of sync. I just threw you a curveball and you handled it beautifully.
Rich: folks
Kristin Overton: okay
Rich: Welcome, Dr. Jamie Bovee. We're glad you're here.
Jamie: Happy to be here.
Rich: All right. Well, listen, we're going to help our listeners approach durability as a part of their training process. This conversation is going to explore again, how metabolic and efficient. Metabolic information, strength work, and the ability to handle training demands can really inform a more thoughtful plan for endurance sport and life.
Rich: Now. If you are new to Grit to Greatness. Listen. Don't sit on the sideline any longer. You need to be coached to be a part of this community. community we are you Sorry, you do not need to be coached to be a part of this community. If you are looking for support, inspiration, and a group of athletes who truly understand what it takes to balance life.
Rich: work, endurance sport. We would love to meet you. Come. Learn from our athletes directly. Just come over to our community page, Grit to Greatness. endurance .com forward slash testimonials. And you can read.
Rich: read what our other athletes have to say about this community. You will learn a lot from them. from us and we have a webinar coming up next Tuesday. Be sure to check it out. on our events page.
Rich: All right. So.
Rich: Dr. Jamie, I am ready. We are ready to get to know you a little bit better. Our our audience can't wait to get to know you. I am going to start us off before we get into our interview questions. with a... Quick get to know ya.
Rich: exercise that we'll call Two Truths and a Lie here. We're going to ask you for three statements about yourself. Two you know to be true. One you know to be a lie. And Coach KO and I are ready for you when you are.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: Lay it on us.
Jamie: Hi.
Kristin Overton: Give it your best shot.
Jamie: Okay, two truths and a lie. Here here goes. I like to participate in a variety of sports from basketball to running to kiteboarding to surfing. Good at some, not so good at others, but I enjoy them all.
Jamie: and let's see moving on I have written two books. uh for athletes And last one would be...
Jamie: I'm a doctor of physical therapy for my whole professional career. But also I was a chemist for several years before that.
Rich: Hmm. Okay.
Kristin Overton: Interesting.
Rich: KO?
Kristin Overton: It's going to be a tough one.
Rich: I've got a theory. Mm hmm.
Kristin Overton: you're you're You're working on a technicality, I think.
Kristin Overton: i i sort of want to go with the last one there's a lot of pausing there a lot of thinking What?
Kristin Overton: i know you've I know you've written one book. I just don't know if you've written two books. I think I'm going with number two. I think you've only written one book.
Kristin Overton: No offense.
Rich: Alright.
Jamie: None taken.
Rich: So here here here I actually think it it could be that as well. It could be a technicality on that. But I am going to go ahead and just take the bait on the pause just to be something different. So I'm going to pick the lie was number three. Coach KO's got the lie as number two.
Rich: Would the lie please reveal itself?
Jamie: Yeah. Coach KO got it right, so I have not written two books. Well, I take that back. It was a technicality. I have written two books. I've only published one. So I did write a sports recovery book with a dietician and an endurance coach, a friend of mine.
Kristin Overton: Okay.
Jamie: We never published it, but it is fully written. and I think some of it was, you know, we were really, we wanted to just explore a lot a lot of these recovery modalities that at the time that we were writing this, there wasn't a lot of science on, or at least there's all these recovery centers popping up, but it was kind of just, they were there when we were like, do they actually work?
Jamie: well how do they work what's the best protocols so we kind of wrote a book on on all of that just and has helped a lot honestly as people have asked us questions over the years of how to best recover.
Rich: Awesome.
Kristin Overton: Awesome.
Jamie: So good job.
Kristin Overton: I want to know about the the the chemist. side of you.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So i was I was a chemist for four years, I think, before I went back to school and went went back for PT. and is one of those things right I just. did chemistry because it's kind of the hardest thing i could find in college and uh Kind of stuck with it. And then I got out in the world and I was like, man, I i do not like this. Like no offense to any chemist out there, but. just not the most exciting job so
Kristin Overton: That's fantastic.
Rich: That's awesome. All right. Well, that's actually kind of... kind of I don't know. I think it kind of... blends very nicely into our first interview question. What drew you into helping? active athletes stay involved in activities. that they love and what does a more durable athlete. look Like to you.
Jamie: I think what what drew me into it, you know, I think a lot of people when they go to PT school, it's like I want to work with professional athletes. And, you know, I i was that way at what as well. And then yeah I worked with some.
Jamie: And, you know, it it is. can be kind of hard to relate right both from a you know what they're doing in their life to what you're doing in your life like they may not equate to be the same things. And then I just found that I just enjoyed working with somebody who was passionate about their sport. It was motivated to get back and I could relate to that. And so I could relate to what they were going through, through injuries and and all that. So just, it was just a more enjoyable and a more.
Jamie: I just felt natural. to work with that crowd and i get a lot out of that so you know Through the years as as I've done that, kind of I have learned what helps to make an athlete very durable and to help.
Jamie: bulletproof their body towards injuries and things like that. You know, it's it's somebody who is strong. mobile and smart with their training. Right, like and intentional.
Jamie: so you can do a Strength and mobility will help you a lot as far as preventing injuries, but with a poor training plan and with poor intention, you'll... still get injured. But if you if you kind of blend all four of those.
Jamie: you're going to be in a pretty good spot.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. That's... That's awesome. Yeah, and and and that's what you have to learn, that that balance of of getting all those things together to to make it work, right?
Jamie: Mhm.
Kristin Overton: You know, we're looking at athletes and and we're, you know, kind of looking at. you know, how much how much load can they actually. Handle. and their sort of load capacity.
Kristin Overton: You know, how how do you explain that to an athlete and and what do you look at? when you when you're deciding like, okay, this is what they can tolerate and and this is how we can plan that out.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, load capacity. It can be a challenging one as as they're ramping things up through injury, especially. And so, yeah, I tend to look at it as.
Jamie: Like, let. not necessarily let pain be your guide, but like. Are we making progress with the small amount of pain that we have? Or is the pain preventing us from making progress? And so if the pain is preventing us from making progress, obviously we have to dial it back.
Jamie: how hot they are, how intense it is, what causes the pain or all the little factors that we can adjust. to get them to tolerate load better. and you know And when we we look at these things, it's...
Jamie: Can you do more? with the same amount of pain, that's progress. And we forget we forget about that. Obviously, doing more with less pain is also progress. That's that's what we want. But we don't have to like.
Jamie: stop doing everything just because pain is around. As long as it's a controllable factor that we're in control of. Great. we can move forward. And that's how how we tend to think about how to control load capacity.
Jamie: from an injury rehab kind of. standpoint.
Jamie: Can't hear you Rich.
Rich: Chris is snoring.
Kristin Overton: And you put yourself on mute.
Rich: So I'm just... So. Jamie, one of my athletes, he's doing, I've got two athletes doing Ironman California tomorrow.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: And one of them is sleeping. he's got his He's got his noise canceling. He can't hear what we're doing. But I'm afraid that we're going to pick up his story. So. And all of this gets edited out.
Rich: So it's all good.
Jamie: okay
Rich: But thank you.
Jamie: perfect
Rich: Okay, so what I was going to say here, so... you know I know we look at a lot of data. in our sport and I know you look at a lot of data in your work. When you talk about you're looking at metabolic data, what specific metrics are you looking at when you are looking at someone's metabolic health?
Jamie: We don't do a ton of looking into the metabolics from an injury standpoint. We will look into, like for on our longevity side, we do kind of look into like VO2 max.
Jamie: We are going to look at strength.
Rich: Mm.
Jamie: We are going to look at mobility. and we're going to kind of And then we're going to look at some data from like... lean muscle mass, things like that. We will look at that from a longevity side. We don't necessarily look at that from the rehab side.
Jamie: I think there's probably a place for it. for some athletes, like the VO2 max, but we don't track a whole lot of the other metabolic data.
Rich: Gotcha. gotcha well what So when you are... in In physical therapy, what kind of data are you looking at, if not metabolic data? What measurements are useful in your work?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah so so strength is a big one and like we'll have like a handheld dynamometer is something you can push into and it will tell you how much strength you have in a specific movement. So for like tendon issues, that's very, very. important because One, you can see if there is a deficit left or right. Let's just take hamstrings. and We tested one leg is 20 % weaker than the other one. It's like, okay, there's a performance leak. That's a structural leak that could lead to an injury.
Jamie: will definitely affect performance depending on the sport. But when it comes to like tendinopathies, a little bit of what I was talking about earlier where You can be making progress even though your pain hasn't changed.
Jamie: Because you're pushing it harder. And sometimes it's hard for an athlete to know that and to recognize that. And we've almost lost patience. And so this has actually helped me a lot where they're like, I'm just not making any progress. And I'm like.
Jamie: you're 30 pounds stronger. Yeah, you're having the same pain, but you're pushing it so much harder to get that pain That's progress. Once once they know that they're like, oh, okay It just buys me a little bit more time to kind of catch up and get that pain back down and it always does to then go So we will track data like that. We will track.
Jamie: If we're looking at like a power athlete, we may track, let's say, broad jump distance, something like that. sprint times, cutting distances. If we're looking to return to sport after injuries, we may be looking at 90 % differences as far as strength, things like that. Single leg hopping, can they do it qualitatively? is it Does it look the same?
Jamie: in addition to maybe quantitatively as well.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, I think you made a great point about, you know. those athletes that you know they're they're still having pain and you know they if if they don't see something concrete And that improvement, it just like just makes them crazy, right?
Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: and We've all been there. So having some of those.
Jamie: And if...
Kristin Overton: concrete.
Jamie: Well, and it helps us too with.
Kristin Overton: objective findings, yeah.
Jamie: Yeah, and it helps us with the athlete we call the analytical, right? They want data on everything, right? It's like.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, a lot of times I'm big picture. I'm like, hey, it doesn't matter. These couple degrees range of motion that we're. getting does it feel better right but they're like yeah but sometimes it's hard to feel that little half inch right But if I can give them data that shows. Hey, you're moving. three more degrees, they're like, great. So it depends on the person. Right. Like the the person that's not analytical, you don't want to beat them with data because then it's just annoying. It's like, I don't care. I just I focus on how it feels. But the person who's analytical, they want the data.
Jamie: Right. So we have to. match our coaching style, as far as rehab goes, to their learning style as well.
Kristin Overton: Right. it's always It's always figuring out what what what your patient's love language is, right?
Jamie: Right, yeah, finding finding their motivations. And I think...
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Jamie: It's important to know too. And generally you can spot that person. We can from the very get go. The person that asked us a thousand questions on anatomy and stuff that they don't understand, but they're asking lots of detailed questions. It's like, okay, great. I can tell who we have here.
Jamie: I'm going to go get my I have it. an app on my ipad that i can spin around the body and i can pull off all the body parts and i'm just going to beat them to death with every little detail that they want right and they just love it though so i'm going to hit them with everything they got and the person that's just like I just want it to feel better. I don't care about this. like i'm I'm not going to the same level of detail.
Jamie: So.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. So let's get into a little, little than a degree of some of the things that you do, some of the modalities, whether it is the FST.
Jamie: Mm -hmm.
Kristin Overton: cupping, shockwave therapy, dry needling, red light therapy, those things. what What's your take on on those modalities? How do you incorporate that into your treatments and and getting your athletes better?
Jamie: Yeah, they all they all have their place. I talked about fascial stretch earlier. I think the one thing I like about it. It's very relaxing. But it's not like a massage. it doesn't It doesn't feel as passive. So like personally, I love the...
Jamie: results of massage but i don't like getting a massage but i love fascial stretch because it's just you feel like a million bucks you feel light you feel like you can jump higher you can feel kind of like relaxed but motivated at the same time so i love that As far as, I'm i'm probably going to go out of the order, but you mentioned Shockwave.
Jamie: So shockwave uh what it does is you have a little it looks like a gun there's a little metal bullet in it high pressure hits that bullet hits the metal tip which is on the skin uh creates a pressure wave that goes through a so pressure sound wave that goes through the skin as it does that
Jamie: cause cavitations or little oxygen bubbles that are shot into the tissues as they're shot into the tissues they create little tunnels into those tunnels comes growth factor blood, and stem cells that help to stimulate healing. Super helpful, especially for soft tissue or tendon issues. just to speed up the process. And sometimes it feels better right away.
Jamie: as well like you'll do it and they're like oh yeah that actually feels better so super helpful for swelling inflammation And just to jumpstart the healing process. red light. is very Very useful. Not as... fast now you may notice improvements in like mood energy. Or I did just read a research study that showed.
Jamie: It's a professional. male soccer players but vo2 max went up 12 percent after doing red light than the VO2 max. I was like, oh, wow. like We've known as performance enhancing for a while, but like that's pretty large.
Jamie: And so red light, essentially, if you're. trying to simplify what it does. It comes into the cells, helps your mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cells, produce more ATP. energy for the body uses all that extra energy to do everything that cells does and that's why it's a little bit of like an inside out kind of catch -all treatment it's going to help fight inflammation it's going to help produce new
Jamie: skin cells it's going to help to produce faster turnover for muscle cells helps with recovery it helps the brain so it's just an inside out treatment for everything we do What were the other ones you asked about?
Kristin Overton: cupping dry needling
Jamie: cominging Yeah. So cupping. I'll probably make some people mad about this, but cupping is probably the lowest on my list of like what I like to use. I feel like as far as skill level, I have other things that I can do that are more impactful. Cupping can be good though. For instance, like on the low back, there's a very thick fascia called your thoracolumbar fascia. It needs to slide and glide. And if it doesn't slide and glide, it can cause extra stress in the back. So what cupping does, you put that on there. It's essentially traction where it pulls up that top layer of skin.
Jamie: and just creates a little breathing room in there. If you move those cups around or you move your body, that can kind of move either of those top layers. That can create some friction, some heat. possibly break up some cross linkages between them, and that can really help some movement. So for the right person, There is not a whole lot. else we have that is traction that can kind of pull those things away from the body so it can be very useful for that.
Jamie: That was... cupping What was the last one?
Kristin Overton: dry needling.
Jamie: Dry needling. I like to just describe dry needling like a reset, control, delete for the muscles. i have Muscles get injured, they get overstressed, they get overused. You get a trigger point in there, it kind of causes those muscles just to feel tight. and so put that needle in there manipulate it cause that muscle to relax control delete okay now i can move better i have more strength i can move without pain now it allows me to do the things to kind of return back to normal
Jamie: in europe they actually use it as a recovery modality like in tournaments and things like that or in post runs we don't do it as much that way here but some Some research in Europe shows it's pretty effective.
Rich: I'm curious if those which ones have. like a recovery process for the athlete i know personally from dry needling that you know it's you know you might be sore for a few hours or even a day after
Jamie: Yep.
Rich: how How is that compared to the other modalities, is if if any?
Jamie: Yeah, so I'd say the most sore is going to be... dry needling. Now... I will say. I do a couple other things that try to minimize that after it. So I'll do some instrument -assisted soft tissue mobilization kind of across it, and that tends to help quite a bit to reduce that soreness. So usually my patients, my athletes, aren't aren't sore. Every now and then they will be. I'll say one out of 20 is like, yeah, I felt it for a day. Of the other ones, the shockwave can be.
Jamie: it does cause a little trauma. So it is essentially causing some. inflammation to that area to jumpstart the healing process so that one can be sore that being said usually i don't have any people complain about that the other ones really shouldn't be sort at all.
Jamie: now occasionally you'll have a massage therapist that overdoes it but if you know them you can communicate with them They shouldn't, and that should feel great. But in general, you don't want your recovery to be painful. that's One, it's going to make you not want to do it. But two, it generally affects the efficacy as well.
Rich: Yeah. Well, thank you. I was just kind of curious about some of the others because my only real, well, i've I've done cupping too, but I haven't done red light therapy. and
Jamie: Yeah, i definite definitely should not be sore from that. should If anything, you should feel energized.
Rich: Yeah, I wouldn't think so
Jamie: We always tell people, like hey, you'll probably get a mood boost in about two to six hours, and you'll probably get a little bit of extra energy in about two to six hours.
Rich: who
Jamie: Most people will also notice that they slept better that night. does improve your sleep as well. which then helps everything else as far as recovery. So anything you can do to help sleep.
Jamie: Helps recovery. and performance.
Rich: I need... I need to come see you.
Rich: So... So we we work with a lot of athletes who are balancing work, family. a full endurance plan. How would you decide what strength work deserves a place in? And maybe we're in the week, like relative to some of the other like endurance things that they're doing.
Rich: in order to really progress.
Jamie: Probably depend on where they're at as far as performance. Right. I think that would be the hard question. but Are they where you want them to be? As a coach, like, are they way off or are they just a little off?
Jamie: right like if they're way off like that may need to take priority And I always tell people like. So I mentioned it early on. like You get strong, you get mobile, you follow a good plan, you follow it with intention, like you you're going to have less injuries. So getting strong is very protective.
Jamie: So when we look at that and we see our athlete, like. You're not where you should be strength -wise. Okay, well... based off what I just told you, at least in my opinion. that's an injury at risk.
Jamie: right What's the one thing that's going to hold you back on performance? It's getting injured and not being able to train. So like to me then it would be like, okay. Hey look We might prioritize this. Like you're far off on this, not only from a performance standpoint, but like.
Jamie: a potential injury. risk. Now if they're close, Maybe we're prioritizing the other things. It's like, Hey, we're close. We can get there. So like, where's the bigger deficit might be how I, how I. i structure what to focus on.
Rich: Thank you.
Kristin Overton: Thank you. I have... I have a question about, you know, kind of kind of in that that realm. So, you know, athletes that are injured and trying to recover, right? that It's sort of...
Kristin Overton: You know, there's that algorithm, you know, there's something wrong you go see the physical therapist, you know, they do assessment and find, you know, what, what the, what the issues are and and start working with it. But kind of taking that one step further with, with endurance athletes in, in particular.
Kristin Overton: you have an athlete that's not necessarily injured or they're just coming off their season into their off season and you know, is there a role for just doing A movement assessment. assessing kind of full body assessment like what are the thing you know What's the role of doing that?
Jamie: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: And then, you know, working on those things, even though you you don't necessarily have an A race coming up or you don't necessarily have an injury per se, but.
Jamie: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: in a way to help prevent that and keep you moving forward for the next season.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that would be absolutely great. because It's not something I think a lot of people do, but I think it would be fantastic because one, a lot of the movement assessments stuff. It's not necessarily strength based on how you fix it.
Jamie: So you can still kind of like deload. while addressing this and let's say now Let's say you don't do that. Right. well if you're not moving properly things are going to slow things just slowly tighten up over time right so now when you get to your training Well, now you have to address it.
Jamie: Now, instead of taking... You could be. taking time that you could be spending on something else. Now you have to spend it on that. So if you kind of take that deload time where it's a little bit easier, you can address these mobility issues, these movement issues. You don't have to do it later. So your training can.
Jamie: you can just focus on the stuff that really needs it later versus. Hey, I can't move. Like I got to address this. So I think absolutely there's a role in that. And I think it's the easiest way.
Jamie: versus trying to cram it in on all this other stuff that you got to do later on. I don't think it's the way that people do it, but I think it's the way people should do it.
Kristin Overton: What is your advice to athletes who like, okay, yeah, I want to do this, right? You know, where, where do they go? Who do they reach out to, to? to to find out okay that this is where I need to go to have this assessment done and really.
Kristin Overton: being able to to do it the right way.
Jamie: yeah yeah Yeah, I think the the two primary people that are gonna be really qualified to do this are gonna be physical therapist or a sports chiropractor and i would say an athletic trainer as well potentially.
Jamie: And so I think, you know, you got that background. I think the benefit of potentially The PT and the sports chiropractors, some other additional kind of hands -on treatments and tools and kind of a wider variety of people that they treat. But I think you know those three those three professions are pretty well tuned in to how to address that stuff.
Jamie: And then I think. look in the other things that they have available to you from you know the facial stretch or the massage or their network right like so how can you build out a team of people to kind of help get you where you want to go and then like what what i say here for all of us because we've got massage we've got fascial stretch we've got personal training we've got the remote we got the modalities we got somebody in charge of that it's like we have a What we tell people is you got to PT.
Jamie: who's responsible. We got a team. if we need it, right? We're we're the quarterback, but we've got a team we can pass to when it's more appropriate to help you.
Kristin Overton: That's great. Thank you for that. You know, I think it's important. for you know our athletes to know you know it you don't necessarily have to have an injury to go see a physical therapist or or so or you know that kind of practitioner to get benefit out of it and and improve yourself
Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah, we we work with about 40 people right now that aren't injured.
Jamie: So every month, come in once a month, we work on these little things that if left alone, they would have become, you know, smoke becomes fire, but they're getting on top of it quickly and they're avoiding injuries and performing. you know amazing so I definitely think there's kind of this. cross between what what we typically call PT and sports performance. And kind of that's where we're trying to live with a lot of those people is like in between these two worlds and allowing them to really train at a high level and stay injury free.
Jamie: at the same time
Rich: Prehab.
Jamie: There you go.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Rich: All right. Yeah. Let's hear it for that. I... you know you You mentioned teams, like having a team around you, a team around the athlete. you know And we think about that too, like as coaches, we think about like you know this this athlete having a team. And sometimes that team really helps that athlete, not only with their accountability, but you know ultimately their overall performance because they're getting the right advice from all angles.
Rich: how have you worked with And, you know. yeah You know. what has been your experience working with coaches to, you know, help an athlete with maybe accountability to the physical therapy that you have prescribed.
Jamie: Heh. Uh, Variable, I'll say that. But occasionally, like I will say kind of relationship saving. So to give you an example. And I've had this happen several times where you know, because I communicate with the coaches and so.
Jamie: When they go back to the coach and they're like, well, Jamie actually said this. And they're like, no, he didn't. He said this, and they're like. what no no no and they're like no i talked to him it just stops that right away right there isn't this like he said she said type stuff it's just like everybody's on the same page
Rich: Hmm.
Jamie: So I think you know having that communication is crucial. And lots of times they'll be able to tell me something the athlete couldn't. right like hey i noticed X, Y, Z when when they're doing this. I'm like, oh, that's really good information, right? I didn't take them out sprinting. I didn't see that.
Jamie: Thank you. Now you saved me a bunch of time. And like the patient would have never been able to relay that. So I think the more information we have, the more equipped we are to help them. And so. I think it's. It's extremely helpful for us. But I think.
Jamie: Just provides. not only better care for the athlete but faster too. Like they're going to get with more data and more information, they're going to get to their goal faster or easier. One of the two. so i i think it's crucial i think everybody needs to be on the same page talking together and all being a team.
Jamie: For the athlete.
Rich: That's great. Yeah, you're right. Because sometimes athletes do get, they do get legitimately confused, right? That, you know, they just, this isn't their thing, right? They're, they're, they're accountants, they're whatever, right?
Jamie: Yeah, yeah
Rich: and This is just their hobby.
Jamie: Yeah, yeah Yeah, and and I've had the confusion that I've had the one specifically that was like they didn't want to do what the coach was telling them.
Jamie: So they're like, oh, Jamie so said don't do that. And they're like, no, he didn't.
Kristin Overton: okay
Jamie: And I was like, that's hilarious. and
Rich: reta We talk,
Jamie: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Kristin Overton: Nice try. Nice try.
Jamie: Yeah, exactly.
Kristin Overton: okay
Kristin Overton: Yeah, this is this is awesome. Yeah, you know but team Teamwork makes the dream work, right?
Jamie: mm -hmm
Kristin Overton: So just putting everything together, same thing you know as as me being a clinician in the office and you know having patients come in and you know they're telling me one thing. and you know and i talked to the therapist they're like Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Like let's get on the same page.
Jamie: Mm hmm.
Kristin Overton: to figure it out. makes a big difference.
Jamie: For sure.
Kristin Overton: So... you know when you're you have an athlete that's kind of you know trying to adapt with an injury and all of a sudden they're... Their body just kind of, they they they're on one page. They need a...
Kristin Overton: They were on this plan, but the body's saying, nope. I'm on this plan.
Jamie: Mm.
Kristin Overton: How do you how do you work with those athletes and kind of preserving their confidence and resilience, you know, their sense of ownership of their. problem and and keep moving forward.
Jamie: When their body isn't going to cooperate with their timelines essentially
Jamie: Yeah. i think it's you know having an honest conversation right and it's like Hey, look. Probably not going to happen. for this timeline well that doesn't mean there's not benefit in fixing this for the next goal right it doesn't mean we have to stop the next race it doesn't mean we have to give up the sport right We have to give up.
Jamie: This race, maybe. And so, you know, we'll get the people who come in the week before a marathon and they're like, I can't run. Like, alright. We need to have a talk, right? but But I think that you know the harder ones are when there is time. like They come in three months before a race, ands but it's going to take five months to to get better. And I think ass as long as you...
Jamie: I like to have that conversation early and often And it's just like, hey, look, we're going to do everything possible. in our control. to get you to this goal. But just so you know, there may be we still may fail.
Jamie: Right. That doesn't mean we're going to fail for long term. Building this up still makes you a stronger athlete for the next race. There's still benefits, right? And I like to spell out the benefits for them. so And then I also like to reframe reframe it instead of rehab as. performance.
Jamie: This will help your performance. Guess what? When your hamstring doesn't hurt, you can run faster. right like so so if you reframe it as performance for them it's easier for an athlete to like do the boring exercises to put in the work right because now doing this helps them do that Instead of...
Jamie: I just need to do this to get out of pain. That's not as exciting. so with everything that i do i try to tell them like hey here's the exercise and i break down for them how it helps them as an athlete This is going to help this, which does this, which helps you push off, which does X, Y, Z. So every single thing that we we're doing, we're connecting to a movement in their sport and they can see the benefit.
Rich: Love that.
Kristin Overton: That's great. yeah
Rich: Is it kind of like, I guess maybe... lines up well with you know my next question, which is, you know, we want. these athletes are finding a lot of like
Rich: personal reward in whatever their sport of choice is. You know you you know you yourself have been you know are active in a lot of different sports. You do that because it gives you it's your lifestyle, right?
Jamie: Yeah.
Rich: and Lifestyle means a lot to us. And we want that lifestyle to last as long as we can. What's one question? maybe that an athlete should be asking themselves or or maybe a manageable action that they should take after this conversation that would.
Rich: If they do that on a daily basis, it will help them stay in the sport for years.
Jamie: I think. being honest with yourself and addressing your deficits. So maybe that's strength, maybe that's mobility, maybe it's mental, maybe it's sleep, maybe it's recovery. Like.
Jamie: But if you get in. address your deficits. that you'll, you'll do well. Right. And maybe, and that's probably seasonal too. Maybe right now it's strength, but maybe next next season it's sleep. Maybe it's stress.
Jamie: But I think if you can just take a... daily approach to slowly peeling away some of those deficits and just making it a daily game. where you're trying to just make slow incremental progress. progress I don't know how you lose.
Rich: I love that. The fact that you said, just be honest with yourself, because I think so many of us are, you know, so many people get anything right until you're willing to admit what you either don't know or what the problem might be or.
Rich: you know and And some people, you know they don't want to admit that they, you know no, I don't need it. The sleep's not a problem. Well, it really is, right? Until you're really honest about that, you won't get the proper recovery. so That was. Bye. I think that was.
Rich: Great way to land that. And I actually think it's a great way for us to give our listeners an action step. I think that this is our call to action. for If you are listening to this podcast.
Rich: Be honest with yourself. You know? Identify one thing. Honestly, that. You know? You know, if you're really being honest with yourself is something you really should be working with.
Rich: And maybe we'll do a podcast post about that or a social post about that and get you, ask you to tell your story. to others in our community.
Rich: Jamie, this has been a blast. Thank you for going through some formal questions with us.
Jamie: Absolutely.
Rich: We are going to shift into a fun segment here. And so for for this first one, I'm going to lead us off.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: Now you got to kind of get your shark tank. you know mind on.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: So. Imagine. You're on Shark Tank. you're one You're one of the investors and somebody is making a pitch. that. You know, this is a gadget that is going to make us race ready overnight.
Rich: Clear a space. for your, you know, get the foam roller out of the way. Cause this is the thing. What are the three questions you're going to ask? that inventor.
Jamie: What makes us unique from everything else out there?
Rich: Yeah, well, yeah wait what do you mean this is going to make us race ready overnight?
Jamie: So... Okay, wait, that was my first question. Okay.
Rich: Yeah, you're're you're the, i'm the and I'm the inventor. I'm telling you, hey.
Jamie: Yeah.
Rich: You're the Shark Tank guy. I'm going, hey, you're the investor. I'm trying to sell you on this thing.
Jamie: Mm hmm.
Rich: I'm telling you, this is going to. make you recover overnight.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: Got any questions for me?
Jamie: Yeah, what what what makes us unique from everything else out there?
Rich: It's a good one. Okay. What else?
Jamie: Who are the athletes that you're basing this off of? And can you give me examples? that i That I would know.
Rich: Evidence. Yeah. Give me some evidence. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Jamie: Then you're saying this will get you race ready overnight. What do you mean by that and give me the specific specifics behind it?
Rich: Yeah, okay. I like that. Yeah, we we definitely need some facts. There's a lot of claims out there, I think, is the point of that, right?
Jamie: Mm hmm.
Rich: and You know, the one thing that's absolutely guaranteed is sleep. For sure. To work.
Jamie: yeah yeah
Kristin Overton: well the one red flag is race ready overnight without you know
Rich: Come on.
Kristin Overton: immediate, right?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: almost always nothing ever happens overnight.
Jamie: yeah Yeah.
Kristin Overton: It's a process, right?
Jamie: Yeah. yeah i'm sure i'm sure you two know that yeah like if you could promise an athlete hey
Kristin Overton: Yeah. yeah
Jamie: Yeah. Well, then you wouldn't have a job if you could do it that easy i get to overnight.
Kristin Overton: Right? Yeah, geez.
Jamie: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Oh man. All right, so... We're going to flip it. And so now it's your turn. So Rich and I each name the recovery habit we find easiest to skip.
Jamie: Mm hmm.
Kristin Overton: And then. Jamie gives each one of us a question that helps us turn that intention into a realistic routine. So no no new gadget required.
Rich: Ooh.
Jamie: Okay.
Kristin Overton: like something solid.
Jamie: So I got to give you a question that will make you rethink using it, basically.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, yeah
Rich: Yeah, so we'll give you'll we'll tell you what our... what what recovery modality we skip.
Jamie: Yep.
Rich: And then you can. you know help us Help us not skip that.
Jamie: Okay.
Rich: All right.
Jamie: Sure.
Kristin Overton: alright
Rich: K .O., you want to go first?
Kristin Overton: Sure, I'll go first.
Rich: You got to. you
Kristin Overton: Sure, sure So a recovery habit that I find the easiest to to skip. is stretching and mobility after a workout.
Jamie: Okay. So from a performance standpoint. being mobile And. being able to use your muscles when they're not stiff.
Jamie: will help you reduce injuries.
Jamie: you want to reduce injuries?
Kristin Overton: All the time.
Jamie: There you go. Thank you.
Kristin Overton: yeah it's easy to you know you go for a run and then you're like okay i got 10 000 other things to do and boom you're you're off to the races and don't pay attention to that
Jamie: Yeah, and i think it's I think it's different if you're if you're being active like after that run.
Kristin Overton: post recovery.
Jamie: like If you're going and doing something, and you're like I kind of consider that a cool down.
Kristin Overton: True, true. Yeah.
Jamie: be honest.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, yeah. yeah
Jamie: Like, yeah, maybe it's not specific, but like I kind of consider that. So that's one that I'm like, that's one that I'm kind of guilty of, too, honestly. So I get it.
Kristin Overton: Go sit down on the couch and watch TV.
Kristin Overton: Maybe that's such a good idea.
Jamie: Yeah, don't don't go do that yeah don't go do that
Kristin Overton: All right, Rich, you're up.
Rich: Yeah, you know, I would have to say the modality that I probably the recovery thing that I probably should cut short, honestly, is
Rich: Post -race meal within 30 minutes. minute window. And sleep. you know I just don't get enough sleep. what What should I be doing to try to correct those habits?
Jamie: Sleep is affected by everything else. So first off, we'd have to identify where are you off, right? like Because it could be stress, right? And that has nothing to do potentially with your race. Yes, that's physical stress, but maybe it's mental stress. So I think it'd be finding out why first are you off on the sleep?
Jamie: And then, you know, there. as far as the things to do to improve your sleep Do you know what those are?
Rich: i'm I'm guessing red light therapy might be and on my list.
Jamie: it It is, but that's not the one. that i would recommend first like at first i would recommend
Rich: All right.
Jamie: Cold, dark room. No. blue or white light. you know the last before an hour before sleep No exercise, two hours before sleep. I wouldn't drink a lot of water two to three hours before sleep. I'd eat more than I'd finished my last meal more than three hours before sleep.
Jamie: Morning sunlight. rounding if you can. I think less important but grinding if you can. but like you can you start your day off with some sunlight it starts your circadian rhythm And then.
Jamie: Get your exercise in the middle of the day. Get your food. You don't want to be digesting your food when you're trying to sleep. You don't want have to go to the bathroom while you're trying to sleep. You want it dark in there so that you're. Brain thinks it's a night, so no.
Jamie: be aware of like the little things that produce light in your in your room white light blue light cell phones things like that And that will go a long ways to improving your sleep.
Jamie: No, yeah, the exercise, letting you know everything calm down. nervous system as well. But like all of that will go a long ways to improve your sleep.
Rich: Love that. And it is our fast -paced world. It is the, you know, that we are going to the wire, you know, wire to wire all day long. And and we do need that time to wind down. and That's probably my biggest my biggest issue.
Rich: so
Jamie: my Mine too. uh to be honest but
Rich: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Always working on it.
Rich: Always working on it and always trying to be real. This is awesome.
Kristin Overton: For sure.
Rich: Jamie, thank you so much. Hang out here with us as we kind of close things out here. And we are going to want to stay in touch with you, my friend. Hey, first of all, before we before we wrap up, can you tell our listeners, how could they get a hold of you or follow you or, you know?
Rich: schedule with you if they wanted to.
Jamie: Yeah, website's probably the best way, ww www .com. And then there's a lot of information on there from phones, the emails and everything else. We're on Instagram as well, at Kinetic Chain Denver, but probably the web is probably the best.
Rich: Awesome. We will also put your... links in our show notes and in our social posts when this releases next week And folks, whether you're...
Rich: you know Whether you're preparing for your first sprint triathlon, 5K, or... You're... Chasing an Ironman dream like our athletes like to do.
Rich: Listen. If you've got a coaching question, just send us a message. or you know submit a question through our website. We would love to be able to help you get through that. as I know Dr. Jamie here would as well. Listen, our show was.
Rich: is sponsored as always by vespa nutrition vespa helps you tap into clean, steady energy so you can stay strong, focused, and in the zone. longer Less sugar, higher performance, faster recovery.
Rich: Use the code G2GVespa15 to get 15 % off of anything in your cart. Just check it out at VespaPower .com. and Again.
Rich: Jamie, thanks for spending time with us. and thank you for listening to us on the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow us and leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts and YouTube. It helps us reach more athletes just like you. Stay gritty.
Rich: Train smart and keep chasing greatness. We will catch you next week.
