Transcript
Rich: Welcome to episode 565 of the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast. We're your hosts, coaches Rich Source and Kristen Overton, and we are on a mission to help endurance athletes train smarter, race stronger, and build the grit it takes to achieve greatness.
Rich: In a recent... Grit to greatness webinar conversation. We were reminded that returning after injury can involve more than rebuilding fitness. What happens when you want to train again, but confidence, fear.
Rich: or a changed sense of identity makes the next step feel complicated. Well, to answer those kind of questions, we've asked one of our very own Paul Hunziker, an athlete who I've been working with. For many years, Paul is a licensed marriage and family therapist with...
Rich: family therapy and recovery. He has been practicing mental health work since 1999, including trauma, anxiety, and depression. And Paul is going to help us kind of talk about talk about listening without judgment, asking for support.
Rich: and making room for a comeback. sometimes means. something to the, you know, what that means to the whole person. so Paul, welcome. We're glad to have you. Back on the show because we've talked recently.
Paul: have yeah thanks rich thank you thank you kristen thank you for having me
Kristin Overton: Yeah, this is going to be great. So our goal today is to help endurance athletes and the people sporting them talk more openly about the emotional side of injury and returning to sport. This episode explores confidence, fear. athletic identity and the courage to seek help without turning someone's recovery into a test of toughness. We all know about that.
Kristin Overton: Listeners will leave with better questions to ask themselves, language for talking with a coach or a loved one, and a clearer understanding of how to look for appropriate. professional support.
Kristin Overton: The emphasis is on ownership, compassion, resilience, and meaningful progress be not beyond pace. or race results, not a promised recovery timeline.
Kristin Overton: So really exploring. exploring how we get from point A to point B when things go awry.
Kristin Overton: so we're gonna Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
Rich: Paul. yeah paul paul let's just draw you here into the conversation before we get into our athlete shout outs We recently had you on the podcast to talk about an injury that you were recovering from.
Rich: you know Maybe just for our audience, you know we'll go into more questions on that later. but Maybe just. give Give everyone a context of your... your scope of practice as a therapist and that injury that you went through.
Paul: Sure. So, yeah, like you said, I'm a marriage and family therapist. I'm also a substance use disorder professional in the state of Washington. i So I work with... predominantly with couples. working in recovery. as well as
Paul: i do quite a bit of clinical supervision for folks and i also i tend to work with a lot of folks kind of working on getting into drug and alcohol treatment centers and helping with family members which crosses over quite a bit i i've done a fair bit of trauma work as uh with youth.
Paul: But working with families with addiction, definitely it looks there there are things that are definitely trauma associated with that. And we're working with things, even though it's not technically considered a diagnosis. I definitely do a lot of that work.
Paul: So. as for my injury yeah this was uh back in february is when it got to the worst uh i And what we found out was I have had a fully herniated.
Paul: a Disc with compressed nerve a compressed nerve and it was really the compressed nerve. That was the main problem I couldn't stand for more than 30 seconds and I was pretty much down for the count for Through May is when I started being able to stand again. So that's what three or four months and I'm still healing from it And Rich, you and I are working still on kind of figuring out exactly What's the new me? What's the new athletic version of me?
Paul: So.
Rich: Yeah. Thank you for that context and background. I think you we're going to come back. right to that point. here in just a moment, but before we do. We got a lot of celebration to do.
Rich: We got a lot of athletes having birthdays, including Paul recently. We're going to get to him in just a second here.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: But we have some incredible... you know. events that our athletes are doing. And I'm going to start off with Mike Murphy, who Today, actually just did the 1K track world championship. competing for Team USA.
Rich: paracycling And he did the 4K yesterday or two days ago. uh Amsterdam time. So like I'm really off with him. But he had a great a great showing, learned a lot, and I'm really proud of him. Plus, plus, plus, plus.
Rich: This is kind of cool. Hunter Stokes is doing Ironman Florida. And Hunter. Hunter's dad and I actually were in the sport together doing Ironman together years ago.
Rich: And when Hunter... our was looking to get into triathlon. Ken, his dad. connected us up. So that's why Hunter is on our team. And Sandy.
Rich: Golfy. racing the New York City Marathon. Good luck. I actually have a coworker that's doing that too.
Kristin Overton: Yes. This Sunday. Yeah. Yeah.
Rich: Yep. Max Davidson's going to be out there in person cheering people on because he lives right there. in manhattan so Good luck team. We're super.
Rich: Stoked for you. All pun intended, Hunter Stokes. And happy birthday, Paul Hunziker. We're a little belated here by about two weeks, my friend. Happy birthday.
Paul: thank you
Rich: Uh... you know You. you know i tell you what you're going down swinging that's what i'll tell i'll say
Paul: Yeah. Right.
Rich: No, paul you're an exceptional athlete. You put in, you got an incredible work ethic. I don't think I've ever known anybody who works. just as consistently as you do so you know it's been a joy to work with you so happy birthday and you know
Kristin Overton: just Just getting better every year, right, Paul?
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: J -
Paul: Age to perfection, right?
Rich: Yep.
Kristin Overton: That's right.
Rich: Age to perfection.
Kristin Overton: There you go There you go.
Paul: yeah Yeah.
Rich: And speaking of Max, his birthday was October 21st. We've got Andra Kidd, November 1st. Woo! A lot of them coming up next week. Honor Kid, November 1st. Haley Harris, November 2nd.
Rich: Yeah. Emily Hansen, November 3rd, and Laura Handorf. November 11th. So we're out, we're reaching out here a little past week, but. Happy birthday.
Rich: to all of you.
Kristin Overton: Awesome. Yeah. Happy birthday to everybody. So, you know, if you're new to Grit to Greatness, you don't need to be coached to be a part of this community. If you're looking for support, inspiration, and a group of athletes who truly understand what it takes to balance life, work, and endurance sport, we'd love to meet you. Come hear directly from our athletes and see what what makes Grit to Greatness different. So come come check out the community. Go to our page. The the link is on the...
Kristin Overton: on the page. Come check us out!
Rich: Lots of great stories out there, including Paul's. I know.
Kristin Overton: That's right. Yep.
Rich: Speaking of Paul, all right, so as we mentioned in the opening, Today's discussion is going to draw on your professional perspective here, you know, without assuming a sports trauma certification or, you know, athlete, treat you know, specific athlete. Treatment.
Rich: but You know, when we had you on our podcast as a guest to talk about your... recovery from injury and your feeling, the feelings that you experienced. coach lauren asked you what you hope listeners would take away from your story and you said How you feel right now is not necessarily how you're going to feel coming up. As dark and as rough as it feels in the moment, it's going to change in some way, shape or form.
Rich: What would you want listeners to understand about? The scope of today's conversation. sort of kind of on the heels of that message.
Paul: Sure. I mean... i guess kind of adding on that and i may have said that at the time of that how we frequently how we feel right now we feel like that's going to go on forever. and it doesn't it.
Paul: it will It will change. Healing is possible. and healing may not look exactly as you expect it to but it is absolutely possible and it will happen
Kristin Overton: And I think, you know, that happens differently for every person, right? and Everybody doesn't feel the same way or respond the same way. So I guess, i you know, that's one question for you. You know, when injury interrupts something an athlete loves, what questions can can help us understand the emotional experience without jumping to a diagnosis or so assuming that everybody responds the same way, you know?
Paul: well just even in the nature of your question it's great is you're not making assumptions you're not jumping in and that's that's so key I think part of this, too, is we have to be careful, too. of but something i i'm probably going to mention a few times of i call it the fixing tendency It's this tendency. We want to because it comes from a good place. We want to help And we want to.
Paul: We want them to feel better. And the problem though is. accidentally that feel can't and for many it feels really dismissive it feel it can accidentally send that message of what you're feeling is wrong It's not what we mean to do.
Paul: but it accidentally sends that message. So I guess. some of the things i mean uh was thinking about before of course like avoiding like unless unless the person uses things like things happen for a reason.
Paul: Don't go there. Yeah, don't use cliches like that. Because for many, that will be really dismissive. Another one, like my favorite, I was thinking before too. of The saying of you know what they say what doesn't kill you Well, my response is it will try again tomorrow even harder.
Paul: because it's to go cut to cut through some of that so because a lot of times we go there because we want again we want them to feel better but avoiding that
Rich: Yeah.
Paul: I guess with specific questions of One I love is like... Where does this all leave you? I just. wide open.
Paul: just See where they're at. find out where they're where they're going. another one is uh just asking permission to Is it okay if we talk about that? Or, yeah. so just getting because getting that permission of course will give you the if they say no you know Okay, we're going to leave it, leave it be.
Paul: Others. yeah what does that bring up for you you could ask it's a little more pointed, but that might be okay. How can I be of help here?
Rich: Hmm.
Paul: Yeah, it's just lots of wide open just to kind of see where they are at. And if they're ready, you can go ahead. if If not... okay just uh that gives you that information that they're they're not in a place quite yet
Kristin Overton: Yeah, I mean I found myself you know, talking with athletes when something's going or eye injury, you know.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: I just automatically go to everything's going to be okay. which is not necessarily the right thing to say at that moment, right? Eventually you could get there, but giving them more ownership of how they're feeling.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: and
Paul: Exactly.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: it's natural to go there it's like reflex because we just it's what we normally do yeah it unfortunately has this
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: accidental side effect that we don't we don't mean.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: accidental It's an accidental diminisher.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: to to use a Liz Weissman.
Kristin Overton: Right? Yeah.
Rich: reference.
Paul: Yep.
Rich: You know... Paul, you know as you were going through this, I know that we were talking about your recovery in terms of... you know scaling back the activity You know, we're not going to run. We're going to bike easy or we're going to use swimming because we we're focusing on the physical activity.
Rich: to address the injury And. What? We didn't. openly talk about as much as I realized we needed to. it in you know reflecting on this is about that loss of confidence, more some of those feelings that you were having.
Rich: Because the numbers don't tell the story. In this case, it's going to be. the injured athlete that's. that can tell the story.
Paul: exactly
Rich: how you You just gave us some good suggestions on how we might invite that conversation. you know Thinking back to make this maybe just a little bit more personal with you, and it may just go deeper on this.
Paul: Sure.
Rich: question Take it. the next level here. What? do you think, how how would you have processed that question in the moment?
Paul: Which question? Yeah.
Rich: The question about, let's say, you know, at your in that February, March timeframe where you weren't able to.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: stand for more than 30 seconds you weren't even able to to you lost you even lost
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: a contract I believe at the time.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: So you had some financial and business implications or consequences of this. if i If we had had this conversation, you know how are you experiencing this?
Rich: how are you how are you doing paul not just how is the body doing
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: What would have been your response at that time you know especially in the context of your last answer about like knowing things that can knowing things change.
Paul: Yep.
Paul: It's interesting. I've even like started to slightly tear up even in that moment because it. that that's not a bad thing. it would have been help I would have felt seen.
Paul: and acknowledging that like yeah I acknowledge because it was so huge I mean it was my identity as an athlete but it was even more and i brought up it was my identity identity as an athlete as a as a therapist i i I teach as well. And so that requires a lot of standing and I couldn't stand.
Paul: And. even in my relationship with my wife too it was like because i was just in a pain cave and so though at the same time that i i Like I said, I probably might might have cried a bit. But that would have been a good thing. I would have been seen. It would have been helpful.
Paul: to be able to process that and kind of recognize that and connect that. Yeah.
Rich: Thank you.
Kristin Overton: you know as athletes are going through this and you know you're you're sort of navigating the injuries and and you know, I am an athlete.
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: And that's... That's the identity, right?
Paul: Exactly.
Kristin Overton: but now all of a sudden you're not you're not the athlete that you that you were before. so how how do you explore that and you know kind of exploring what identity means to them you know while leaving.
Paul: sure
Kristin Overton: leaving room for the person that they are now.
Paul: Sure.
Kristin Overton: and and who they're gonna be. eventually.
Paul: Something I Because I... kind of trying to identify what the identity was and is and the difference there is something i like to do and but feel like generally you can is like kind of naming values. that they have like what were the values that went into being an athlete i mean I mean, for me the consistency and reliability is a huge one for me.
Paul: and then there's achievement is in there too and though and recognizing that and so then it would be okay How is this shifting? Where are those things at?
Paul: Are those things still important to you? The other part too is... Bye. because it's a confusing space to be in because like I was I didn't.
Paul: I had possibly the beginning of a grieving process. and it But it was a weird one because it... And it still is to some extent, because it's like, what am I actually grieving? Because I don't know yet and the nature of my injury. Like I knew it it wasn't clear that I was done. For some, it would will be clear.
Paul: and so you could You could look at that. and So that's that's one of the ways I go into it. I'm just trying to help folks identify kind of values that are associated to it.
Paul: And then also any values that. like the injury is kind of because the injury what is the injury getting in the way of And then what do you want to do with that? uh how do you want to approach that are are we going to hold on to that or are we going to move or are there other values we can move to
Paul: Yeah. that's it's It can be tricky conversations essentially is going the other way to like the meaning to what it means to them.
Rich: So you just really. widen my thinking around this next question a little bit.
Paul: sure
Rich: So, you know, you know I was reading in your on your website the term motivational interviewing that caught my eye.
Paul: Yep. Sure.
Rich: I was very curious about that.
Paul: Yep.
Rich: And now hearing. you know Hearing you talk about the... You know. what has changed, like the values that we associate with being an athlete or... or with being.
Rich: In pursuit of being an athlete, because some people might not even identify themselves as an athlete when they start this, but there's a value. that's got them pursuing something. And.
Rich: How did that change as a result of this injury? That. can be really traumatic. So how would Like. How would motivational interviewing...
Rich: Come. applying this In this. Context.
Paul: a
Rich: Or does it?
Paul: It does completely because it' I usually with motivational interviewing, I'm really trying to figure out what someone's values are. Like when I work with someone as they're speaking, I'm trying to figure out what values kind of support what they're doing.
Paul: And I mean, if we were to get into the the weeds with it, there's. techniques and skills and other things I use to explore folks' values. but the nice part with motivational interviewing even though it's started as a therapy tool.
Paul: it's not a therapy tool anymore like it's we I teach teachers how to do it I teach uh, business leaders, I teach but i teach early childhood educators and so That's what I love about it is that can anyone can use it.
Paul: but yeah it would be there's actually this exercise called the values card sort which you can actually find free online at the Motivational Interviewing Network trainers website. That actually helps. It's a list of 100 possible values.
Paul: And it helps people explore and kind of like what. yeah, what is here? what What is actually important to me? Yeah.
Rich: Love that. Love that.
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: yeah Yeah. Good resource too.
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: Totally free.
Paul: I love y 'all. their own. I love giving free resources. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: I love that.
Rich: And somehow I feel like I'm being analyzed now every time we have a one -on -one.
Kristin Overton: yeah
Paul: no
Rich: what values and What values are showing up for me today?
Kristin Overton: 100%. Watch out, Rich.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. Yeah.
Rich: Teasing.
Kristin Overton: So kind of in that line, you know, learning how to how to. to to to speak with your athletes you know what what can coaches and and you know even training partners say when someone shares, you know, a difficult experience or, you know, something that they're going through, you know, might not even be an injury.
Kristin Overton: It might be something, some life.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: circumstance it's really affecting their training or what they're what they're doing. you know and and What? what kind of things are sort of helpful things to say or you know what are those well -intentioned phrases that might just shut shut a patient a patient.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Here I am, I'm thinking about my patients as i you know I'm seeing patients in the office.
Paul: Yeah. yeah but Yep.
Kristin Overton: But yeah, what what's going to close down that conversation? And, you know, they don't want to. to talk about it anymore.
Paul: Yeah, I mean anything that's kind of pushing them like anything that feels like pressure God. is going to shut them down so that's the the the piece you want to make sure and it's tricky because if i eat everybody that pressure point is going to be different.
Paul: so like things that would be so we talk about like trying to make sure avoid giving advice. At least at first. and because it's that can feel like pressure.
Paul: if if someone's in a really rough spot. It's something that I guess they're... i guess question again that open -ended question really like Tell me about this. Describe this to me Uh...
Paul: what does that mean yeah what anything with what tell me about i think i already said that Avoid why. that actually can make put people on the defensive.
Paul: I guess. and then others are sometimes too
Paul: You could if you feel like there's a feeling in the room We're in the space. You could say yeah i'm it's feeling like. it might I get the sense that you might be feeling sad.
Paul: I know that sounds therapist -y, but you probably could get away with it. they'll They'll correct you if it's wrong. but at least it brings the feeling into the room and it's like, it's okay to talk about it.
Paul: and you get the benefit of that you're trying to understand what's going on. The main part is is really trying to how do i connect with them. And.
Paul: What are they okay with talking about?
Paul: Hopefully there's something specific enough in there. Yeah. yeah
Kristin Overton: Yeah, I think so.
Rich: Yeah
Kristin Overton: yeah yeah
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: I think a lot of it's about being being a better listener rather than...
Kristin Overton: giving your opinion or advice, right?
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, we kind of want to leave ourselves out of it.
Kristin Overton: just listening to them and and Yeah, getting their feelings.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. Yeah.
Rich: Paul... it This so I'm, I'm really re re -scripting my, the whole next question here. So bear with me. I just, cause sometimes just go with the flow here.
Paul: okay Yeah.
Rich: Part of the reason I think that. We don't handle that question well as coaches or friends or family members. Is that.
Rich: We get uncomfortable ourselves, right? And, you know, sometimes it's hard to have the courage to ask that question. with confidence To ask the question with confidence that.
Rich: you're going to be received as... being helpful and not critical or you know whatever whatever is blocking
Paul: yeah
Rich: What is your advice to those that are asking, like trying to ask that question? How do they do that? Like, I know you get in some like. initial suggestions on how to do it, how to word it, but.
Paul: sure
Rich: What could they do internally? Like. as a process to have the words come out right.
Paul: I think taking the pressure off of having the words come out right.
Rich: Mm.
Paul: it's There's a fear. there's a fear that we're going to break them. And we're not. like that it we're not i i yes kristen your your concerns of like Turning them off or shutting them that's real but that's not breaking them that's potentially us just bringing ourselves in. and
Paul: The other is... I think sometimes folks have the thought of like, I'm going to make them feel worse. No. they're feeling yeah they're they're they're there and if they're not feeling bad they're going to look at you weird which actually is a good thing because it means that they're not feeling that bad yeah And. So.
Paul: it's kind of letting ourselves off the hook of we're going to stumble around and it's okay. and even us stumbling around means that they know we're trying and that we care
Paul: So that's the big one is. Yeah, being let trying to let ourselves off the hook. And then the other part is just of how, if possible, can I put those that aside and As much as possible try to clear my mind so I can see them because if you can sit with them with a clear mind It's gonna be easier. You're gonna be more relaxed. You're gonna be able to be able to see what they're going through more easily without it your own feelings clouding it
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: That's a hard, it's it's hard.
Rich: Yeah.
Paul: It's just challenging because it's it's awkward. we we We don't know. And culturally, we just don't. know how to do this is a gap that we have partly i think from our rugged individualism of like everybody that has expectation of kind of take care of yourself pull up yourself up by the bootstraps
Paul: which it which has a lot of strengths in other ways, but this is one of the faults of it. unfortunately.
Rich: yeah Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. Yeah.
Rich: Just you know making the intent clear that you're just asking because you care.
Paul: Exactly. that just being there present and
Rich: Yeah.
Paul: Just, I'm here to listen.
Kristin Overton: i think that this this leads me to sort of the next next question i'm going to phrase this a little differently as well you know, you you you're you you're open to your athletes and you know even if if they're open to you and and but they're still really struggling no matter you know how many conversations do you have and, you know, you you feel like, yeah, maybe they're coming around, but they're not really coming around and you feel like they need.
Kristin Overton: something more than... Just your help. you know need some more professional help with the therapist, that kind of thing. you know what what are what are those conversations like what you know.
Kristin Overton: How do you approach that and and how? you know, what are the useful questions for a athlete to ask, you know, when they're looking for a therapist or
Paul: Sure.
Kristin Overton: what kind of things can you present to an athlete when you feel like maybe maybe you would benefit from some more professional help to get you through whatever you're getting through.
Paul: Sure. There's a few parts on that so let me try to make sure i try to hit on each of them so the yeah the parts with if they're you get a sense that yeah they might need some like this is kind of above your skill set yeah look it's looking like maybe it might be helpful a Great question. What are your thoughts on counseling?
Paul: what do you like ask them what
Kristin Overton: Okay.
Paul: Yeah, what what what do you think of it? and just openly yeah they're probably gonna pick up where you're headed with but it's okay because you've come in and just i just want to know what you think of it and that it's up to you and another another statement Ultimately, this choice is up to you. You you decide for yourself what what you do.
Paul: because it's true, they have freedom of choice. But doing those two things then opens up, OK, are they someone who's supportive of the idea or are they going to be someone who has a harder time with it?
Paul: And if they have a harder time, then it's going to be slow walking it. if they're supportive, then the doors open. Yeah So I think that's the first. So yeah, just start with curiosity of like, what do what do you think about it? What do you know about it?
Paul: The second part, if I'm remembering correctly on the question is like things to ask a therapist. I wanted to plug in here because I have...
Paul: Because it's kind of... There's such a shortage of mental health providers out there here. and Like what I tell folks is if you got a therapist, that's gold because it's really hard to find one right now.
Paul: And so. yeah it's something our field is really uh coping with and and managing and so It's challenging to find a specialist. i would suggest for folks if you can get a call back from a therapist run down that route first because a callback is Bye. is awful but a lot of therapists we just Can't. we don't return calls which is not good i don't love that about our profession
Paul: it's will give us credit and for the fact that we're overwhelmed because we get swamped. There's a lot of referrals coming through. So if you can get a if you get a call back from a therapist. follow that lead.
Paul: the main thing to ask them is it's not even necessarily asking it's or well The most important thing is that it's someone you feel like you can trust
Paul: regardless of their credentials and specialty, if this is someone you feel like you can trust and that you can connect with. work with that. Yes, if you can look for specialties and stuff like that, it would be there. And I do know folks that do. and specialize is kind of a fuzzy word but that do specialize in sports athletics there aren't that many though unfortunately and so
Paul: If you... you're probably going to have to work with someone at least for a little while before you get to a specialist. So we kind of, yeah, you may, and that's the other piece is you may need to switch therapists and switching therapists. I love if I can get this message out there is totally fine.
Paul: we are and you're not we're not going to feel like we're rejected we we want to get you connected to the person that is going to work for you if we don't that's totally fine we work with folks all the time it's like oh god no this is this isn't gonna work Nope, that happens all the time and it's totally fine.
Paul: Anyway, I hopefully answered everything you asked there.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, no, that was great. Yeah, yeah.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, I mean, that's true with finding a coach. You got to make that connection to trust that person to, you know. to be able to work with them Yeah.
Rich: Paul, I'm going to... Again, go off script here. I'm going to leave the last question for Coach KO.
Paul: Sure.
Rich: before we get into our key takeaways. You know. We at. grit to greatness one of our values our values are gratitude resilience impact and transformation and This...
Rich: interview is hitting on all of them for me. One, obviously the gratitude that we've got your. messages reaching people here you're going to make an impact that's two values right there This is all about not just physical resilience, but mental resilience and emotional resilience. and Part of that resilience is asking for help.
Rich: And. probably the thing that probably landed the most for me tonight is that Most people that are. doing this sport are in some form of transformation. They are doing this either.
Rich: to live out their values of being consistent. Right. or to you know do something significant. And this.
Rich: become you know an injury can conflict with that. And I think you've given us a lot of great tools. What would be? the key take like we asked you what your what the key takeaway should be last time What would be your key?
Rich: Number one takeaway from from this interview tonight. for our listeners.
Paul: If you're the one talking to someone that's had an injury, if you're a coach or a family member or friend, yeah, that piece I think that stood out of let yourself off the hook of like. that uh Just ask.
Paul: no matter even if it comes out shaky it comes out weird just ask somehow approach because that's really what they're they're wanting or even just be there just be present and then the second part of it too is kind of if you can recognize that you might have some discomfort it's an awkward feeling
Paul: and that's okay that's normal but if you can try to put leave that aside so that It... doesn't leak in like you're not trying to make them feel better. because it's they're going to need to feel the way that they feel for a while.
Paul: for the folks that are if you've had an injury again going all the way back to the top of yeah like how you feel now is not how you're going to feel in a month And that.
Paul: The other part, asking for help. for the vast majority of us is really hard and i think it's even harder for athletes because we take a lot of pride in ourselves and we take a lot of pride in being able to take care of things and work through pain.
Paul: I think that's actually something I have to work on too is I have an incredible ability to endure pain. that's not always helpful And this is a situation where it's not. It's a moment where we need to be open and vulnerable.
Paul: because then to give us the best chance to have to rebound.
Kristin Overton: so So let's wrap this up with one. sort of last question.
Paul: Okay, sure.
Kristin Overton: or sort of statement, I guess. So you know taking all that into consideration and kind of putting it out to our our listeners.
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: to sort of an action item, right?
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: of what what is kind of one low pressure conversation that one of our, that our listeners could start this week. whether it's a coach, a trusted person. qualified professional, whoever that they trust to ask for support that they actually need.
Kristin Overton: How can they start that conversation?
Paul: I think. Part of it is first off.
Paul: that it's okay to ask for help. and kind of put it's a mental piece here of something i might even ask myself first is if there was a friend or someone else I knew that was having the challenge I was.
Paul: And I asked them a question, how would I feel? Which most of us. the vast majority would want to rush rush and help because it's we're giving our loved ones when they're given a concrete way to help They're right on it.
Paul: It's just an effort to try to recognize to get yourself out of that. I don't want to be a burden I don't wanna be a problem. recognizing that the folks around you know you're struggling and if you can give them a concrete thing to do they're going to be so grateful and go above and beyond to take care of that. And it's going to feel good because and that will hopefully open it up and make it easier to start asking for support.
Kristin Overton: I like that because that's that's so true, you know.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: most everybody who you know it's if it's somebody that you care about or cares about you They want to help you.
Paul: Yep.
Kristin Overton: so take that and go with it.
Paul: uh -huh Absolutely.
Kristin Overton: Right. Yeah.
Rich: Awesome. Paul, thank you.
Paul: Yeah.
Rich: Folks, key takeaways today. Make space to to describe the emotional experience. Make space for someone to describe the emotional experience of a comeback without measuring it. only by training numbers.
Rich: Use curiosity rather than pressure. Ask. what the athlete is experiencing and what support that they feel that they need or want. and explore identity relationships. and personally meaningful progress alongside sport goals.
Rich: Coach K .O.?
Kristin Overton: Yeah, adding to that, you know discuss the boundaries of coaching and and how to find a qualified mental. professional you know when appropriate. choosing one practical next conversation for so for support step. Don't turn the interview into a diagnosis or self treatment protocol.
Kristin Overton: you know keep it keep it open to the athlete So yeah, so this is our our listener action step, just as we we sort of ended that conversation. You know, write down one thing you want to want your support team to understand, one question you want to ask, and one person you can speak with. Choose the conversation. And it's not not a deadline for feeling better as your next step.
Kristin Overton: but open that that conversation up. if you're feeling like you need you need to let something off your chest. Go for it.
Rich: Alright. Listen, we have done a great job of unpacking. a Pretty serious topic. We've been really serious all this whole podcast.
Kristin Overton: Way too serious.
Rich: i am I am going to change that right now. We can have a little fun. with we have some silly with the serious and so here we're going to go to the silly We have got a fun segment for you. Not like really cook this up for you. Paul, so.
Rich: The fun segment is called Lost in Tri -Translation. This is an athlete to human translation challenge. It's going to take us about three minutes. Your work, Paul involves listening carefully and helping people understand each other. We thought we'd put those skills to the ultimate test. translating endurance athletes.
Rich: statements into plain English.
Kristin Overton: All right, so here's what we're gonna do. We'll give you something an athlete might say. you tell us what they're actually saying. One sentence, first instinct, and guaranteed we will definitely recognize ourselves.
Rich: All right, here we go. Question number one. I'm being spontaneous. I'm being spontaneous. I've downloaded three possible routes, check the wind, and pack nutrition for each scenario.
Rich: What is this athlete? saying,
Paul: They're getting to go for an adventure run. and That's what I thought. Or the weather looks really bad. Yeah.
Paul: Yeah, that's what hops the mind, I guess. Yeah, I don't know.
Rich: You get it. That's right.
Kristin Overton: so So they're being so spontaneous that they've made at this point.
Paul: Is it? Okay.
Kristin Overton: complete contingency plan and spreadsheet.
Paul: Okay. Got it.
Kristin Overton: Yeah. Ugh.
Paul: Got it. Okay, not being spontaneous.
Kristin Overton: So funny. So funny.
Paul: Now I get it.
Rich: who
Paul: The opposite. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: All right, here's here's here's another one for you.
Rich: I mean, that's like totally typical.
Kristin Overton: this
Rich: you know, type A triathlete, right?
Kristin Overton: Oh, totally. yeah Yeah.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Like... Yeah. All right, here we go. I'm learning to let go.
Paul: go
Kristin Overton: I'm learning to let go of things I can't control. except my watch recorded 9 .97 miles so we're going to go around the block. We got to get that 10.
Paul: They're not doing so good at letting go. They're holding on.
Rich: They've got closure issues, don't you think?
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: If you got closures.
Paul: yeah
Rich: Like they got real closure issues.
Kristin Overton: Okay.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah.
Rich: Alright. All right, this one's called We Have a Healthy Relationship, Really? My watch and I have a healthy relationship. It tells me I'm unproductive. and I immediately try harder to earn its approval.
Paul: All right. the shaming aspect of Garmin.
Rich: Exactly.
Paul: it's Like...
Rich: I hear that from so many people.
Kristin Overton: darman is so mean sometimes
Paul: It's constantly berating me.
Rich: Can I get an Apple Watch, please?
Paul: yeah I get that.
Rich: Yeah.
Paul: like
Kristin Overton: Oh.
Paul: Yeah, so yeah. Not the healthiest relationship with a watch, I guess. Yeah.
Rich: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: All right, here's another one. I'm more than my sport. Your turn Paul.
Paul: my
Paul: I...
Kristin Overton: Give us an athlete phrase you're guilty of saying and Rich and I will translate.
Paul: It's just one extra workout.
Rich: I know how to translate that.
Rich: that that That means that... I needed this.
Paul: the eye.
Rich: for my mental space today.
Paul: There you go.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Rich: like I needed this. this is therapy This is mental therapy. I needed i needed that extra swim, right?
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: Yep.
Paul: Yeah, exactly. The extra swim. We just had this.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Paul: Yes. Yeah. Didn't do it.
Kristin Overton: Ugh.
Rich: It's awesome.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: This is great. All right
Rich: Well, now we know why you know now we understand why listening is a professional skill, Paul. So thank you for doing this with us.
Paul: Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Kristin Overton: Yeah, this this this was awesome, Paul. Thank you so much. I think this is helpful for for athletes and coaches alike, learning how to how to have those conversations and and help our athletes through.
Kristin Overton: what they're what they're going through.
Rich: Yeah. and i think And Paul, I think we had a breakthrough with you. You know?
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Rich: Yeah. air
Kristin Overton: 100 % Yeah. Well, thank you so much for for being with us, Paul.
Paul: Yeah.
Kristin Overton: So for our listeners, you know, choose your path with good to greatness. Whether you're preparing for your first sprint triathlon, tackling a 70 .3 or chasing the Ironman dream, we can help you build a personalized roadmap. If you have a question, coaching questions, please send us a message, connect through our website.
Kristin Overton: or engage with the great to Greatness community. and we may feature that question or and or answer answer what you need. So if you have a question, submit your Ask a Coach questions.
Kristin Overton: go to our website.
Rich: We're here for you. And we listen really well, I think. Try.
Kristin Overton: Yeah.
Rich: And we want to give a shout out to our show sponsor. Vespa. nutrition vespa helps you tap into steady clean energy so that you can stay strong focused and in the zone longer.
Rich: It is a metabolic catalyst. It helps you burn more fat than sugar. So it requires that you eat less gels. less sugar, higher performance and faster recovery.
Rich: Use the code G2G. Vespa 15 for 15 % off of anything in your cart. Anytime. I just got a whole nother pack. uh to take me through sort of half marathon season here and my high rocks coming up Folks, thanks for spending time with us today on the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow us and leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts and YouTube. It helps us reach more athletes like you. Stay gritty, train smart.
Rich: and keep chasing greatness we will see you all next week
